« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

FRONT PAGE CONTRIBUTOR

Cheney Doubles Down on ‘torture’ memos.

Release them *all.*

(Via Andrew Malcolm) Former Vice President Dick Cheney has indicated that last week’s disclosure / distraction involving four CIA ‘torture’ memos is critically incomplete, as it fails to give results. He wants the full story released:

“One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure,” Cheney tells Hannity, “is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn’t put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified.”

“I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven’t announced this up until now, I haven’t talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.”

“And I’ve now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions.”

More details here and here. This is not an unreasonable request… if you accept that the primary purpose of the Obama administration was to actually inform the voting public about the program. Alas, it’s not, particularly. They’re actually looking to obscure the matter: after all, it’s not as if they’re really planning to change the original program to any significant, non-cosmetic degree. If they were, they wouldn’t be trying to reassure the CIA that this White House wasn’t planning to treat them as domestic enemies. Which I personally believe, if only because pragmatically speaking the CIA can leak Obama to political death over this, particularly when rendition kicks into high gear.

As AoSHQ notes, the Obama administration has no really good response to Cheney’s gambit. They can either reveal the memos, and risk having the voting public not care some more*… or they can ignore the whole thing, which will do nothing to persuade their own supporters that there isn’t a cover-up/whitewash going on. Well, actually, there is a cover-up going on: it’s the one that the Democrats are engaging in to try to make sure that their base never comes to the realization that they were manipulated for their money and votes.

Which will probably work, too. Said base has certainly been determined to ignore this up to now.

Moe Lane

*A rather straightforward observation which will no doubt cause some consternation in comments. But not as much as this one… which also illustrates a point that I don’t know that I’ve ever made before, and I probably should have. When it comes to the decision of how to prosecute the GWOT, the dispute was never between the progressives and the neoconservatives. It was between the neoconservatives and the outright Jacksonians. Which is why the progressive position is still being ignored in this debate, even though they thought that they had actually won an election or two. The American people don’t really want to reach any sort of understanding of terrorists (“Why do they hate us?”); they just want them dead, or wishing that they were, or at least blowing somebody else up. Military-action-plus-nation-building proved able to successfully restrain just-kill-them; once we have another attack on American soil, outreach-and-understanding won’t stand a chance.

Sorry, but somebody had to say it.

Crossposted to Moe Lane.

COMMENTS

  • ajl_mo

    If the “enhanced interrogation techniques” resulted in substantial actionable intel let’s see it.

  • DerKrieger

    He has the guts and “I don’t give a damn” attitude to say what needs to be said. I wish more of the GOP would grow a pair and speak up.

  • redneck_hippie

    God I wish the professionals (aka grownups) were in charge.

    Amateur Hour so needs to be over.

  • 10ksnooker

    Since the Obama narrative is we got nothing for it, but our damaged name, then lets see the facts. Cheney called them on this, he said what was obtained was important and prevented other mass attacks.

    Inquiring minds have a right to the full story.

  • aesthete

    Virtually all other debate was along various conservative/moderate conservative lines, i.e., realpolitik, paleocon, and neocon+Jacksonians.

    The progressive viewpoint was (rightfully, IMO) analogous to a child sitting at the table while mommy and daddy talk about grown-up stuff.

  • ryeinn

    What changed that now leads to the call for either of these sets of memo’s (the ones Obama released and the ones that Cheney is calling for release of). If they weren’t safe to declassify until now, what made it possible?

    Yes, release these, all of them. I think a policy of if it can be declassified it should be is appropriate. That’s the whole purpose of classification right?

  • bobojake

    shoot’em dead in self defense.
    obama you are going to get middle class hardworking Americans killed with your foney polices and manipulation and it ain’t working..

  • Jack_Savage

    You may as well reveal the results.
    Revealing one without the other is typical gutless liberal manipulation, and I am glad Cheney called them on it. What a patriot.

  • redneck_hippie

    Let the showdown hand begin.

    If Obama knows that the information gained from the ET was lifesaving, of course he won’t want it declassified. And if Cheney knows that he knows, Cheney just drew to a royal flush.

  • Rod_Patrick
  • http://brockwayfamily.spaces.live.com/ Erick Brockway

    That said, Obama’s in for a tough one;

  • Rod_Patrick
  • smagar

    let’s see what results they achieved.

  • mbecker908

    1. I wish, daily, that the 2000 ticket had been Cheney/Bush.

    2. The policy on the left is “outreach & understanding”, meaning to reach out and believe the BS they tell us about “why”. On the right, our policy should be “understand & outreach”, meaning that we understand they are uncivilized butchers and we should reach out and kill them. In very large quantities.

  • Rod_Patrick
  • smagar

    …on those stories from unnamed Republicans who want Cheney to stay quiet.

  • ajl_mo

    >You may as well reveal the results.
    Yes what were the intel results of 183 water boardings in thirty days of Khalid Sheik Mohammed? I’m guessing that he really started to loosen up after 130 or so.

  • Rod_Patrick
  • redneck_hippie
  • HappyBunny

    Actually, you’re dumber.

  • DONTREADONME

    if we waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed 183 times that goes to show that the technique was not effective enough, should have moved on the Japanese water cure received by American POWs during WWII. Yes, I remember.

  • ajl_mo

    >if we waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed 183 times that goes to show that the technique was not effective enough,
    *********
    Maybe it was very effective. Hopefully VP Cheney has his wish and we’ll soon find out.

  • JoeG

    But I sure do wish that Cheney was president all those years.

  • bs
  • bobojake

    He would of ripped obama up and not let himcontinual lie.

    obama would of wished he had his teleprompter to tell him what to say and it wouldn’t of been there. Today obama had a 6.6 sec lapse trying to figure out his answer about the book the killer dictator shoved down obama throat.

  • IJB

    ;)

  • nod90

    …in the 9/11 attack planned by KSM.

  • IJB

    …In this country.

  • fishbreath

    Somewhere between 50% and 90% of us are, in fact, idiots, depending on where you sample. <.<

  • aesthete

    Most of us are barely sentient, and it’s frighteningly easy to be considered “erudite” for your age. Basically, if you’re 18-25 and you can communicate semi-coherently, you’re a crowning example of your kind and eligible for scholarships :)

  • fishbreath

    On the one hand, I’m not sure the memos should have been released in the first place. On the other, since the cat is out of the bag, I’m all about full disclosure.

    On another note, having taken a psychology course or two (and heaven knows that the most dangerous thing in the world is a *little* bit of knowledge, so I may be wrong here), it is my understanding that a great many psychological effects have an affective and a cognitive component. Response to torture strikes me as that kind of thing.

    There’s an affective component: an immediate and emotional response to the torture. Fear and pain kick in, and the subject gives in. There’s also a cognitive component–twice a day for 90 days, at exactly the same times every day, the interrogators come, take you away, and strap you to the bench. Perhaps they’ve put a clock outside your cell so you can tell when it’s about to happen. Eventually, you begin to dread the coming of the time when they come for you, and you realize that your prayers to Allah are going unanswered, and you know that the infidel interrogators are not going to kill you. You get to thinking, and you realize that you can make it stop. You break.

    The point is, the immediate psychological effect of torture is less useful and probably more likely to result in false confessions anyway. The way to break a subject who isn’t going to talk isn’t by torture itself–it’s by the dread that rises as the clock ticks toward the appointed time.

    Now I’m very interested in seeing the memos, and seeing when/if KSM broke. Maybe I should write some emails to the White House and to Congress.

  • Joe_Cor

    his former boss had had a lot more of Cheney in him. Actually, I think the country would be in a far better state today if the names on the Republican Presidential ticket had been flipped in 2000.

  • mbecker908

    that we are war in this country and that Democrats are, in fact, enemies of the State, you might take an educated guess where I’d come down on that proposition.

  • Rod_Patrick

    Last time I looked, it was obvious that we (especially McCain) tried to avoid the discussion of GWB in the last election. It’s like that we were too “ashamed” of him and we were trying to lock him up in the closet.

    The last election should have been a chance for GWB to defend himself from all the lies of the left in the last 4 years. GWB should have participated more in the debates. He was actually the subject of the major attacks of the Left against McCain.

    McCain’s message was really inconsistent. He didn’t really make a coherent case whether he would swallow or spew GWB, a disgraced President according to the libs and the MSM. Considering the pros and cons, he should have embraced GWB to the fullest. McCain missed a great opportunity of allowing Bush and Cheney to help him in many issues.

    Allowing GWB and Cheney to recover their honor against the smear attack of the Left would have been more favorable to McCain. We should have utilized GWB and Cheney more.

    GWB should have admitted that his bipartisan approach in the last 4 years cost him everything. GWB should have never signed that TARP 1 Law. GWB should have focused his last few months in the WH in letting the public KNOW what really caused the September Financial Crisis.

    GWB and Cheney could have saved McCain in 2008 if we just allow them to wear their old Conservative Badge to help fight the Democrats.

    But we left GWB and Cheney in the WH. I don’t really know who was influencing GWB in those days when the TARP1 was being formulated. I suspect that it was a bunch of two-faced Democrats trying to poison the conservative mind of the President. In 2008, we actually lost our sight of GWB. Deep inside, I really believe that the man sitting as President in the WH last 2008 was not the GWB I voted for in 2000 and 2004.

    Despite of the above, I still thank the former President for everything. He still deserves the comfort of his newly found private life away from the WH.

    As for McCain, I still feel sorry for him.

  • Jack_Savage

    Since you are so deep in the CIA and so very up to speed with the efficacy of enhanced interrogation.

    If Cheney gets his way, we’ll find out, won’t we pal? If it were up to me the bastard would look like the Black Knight in the Monty Python skit. And that would have been interrogation #1…

  • ajl_mo

    >Well, you tell me…Since you are so deep in the CIA and so very up to speed with the efficacy of enhanced interrogation.
    ********
    I’m not. That’s why I support VP Cheney’s request.

    >If Cheney gets his way, we?ll find out, won?t we pal?
    ******
    Yes. That’s why I posted in support of Cheney’s position.

  • stangmmx

    I go to a fairly prestigious University and I can say with confidence that there is an abundance of level headed conservatives. I personally, lean more libertarian, and if I could point to any party that will grow ten fold due to my generation, it is the libertarian party.

    It depends on the type of college student you’re talking about. In the arts school (home of dancers, actors, painters, film students, etc) there is overwhelming support for “progressive” viewpoints. In the business school, engineering, science, etc it is the exact opposite.

    I hope we’re not trying to compare a bratty child complaining at the table to college students. Its our generation that can learn about this catastrophic presidency and have ample time to prepare for a GOP comeback.

    So, please be more respectful to college students. Many of us (such as myself) are specifically going back to grad school to prepare to be future leaders in the business, political, or artistic world. And, in doing so, we carry with us (hopefully after Obamunism) the principals of conservative ideology. Have more faith in us.