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	<title>Comments on: Want to promote ocean biodiversity?  Increase offshore drilling.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mbecker908</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14656</link>
		<dc:creator>mbecker908</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14656</guid>
		<description>He'll come in with a gummit program to employ them.  After all, New Orleans still needs to be rebuilt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;ll come in with a gummit program to employ them.  After all, New Orleans still needs to be rebuilt.</p>
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		<title>By: mbecker908</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14655</link>
		<dc:creator>mbecker908</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14655</guid>
		<description>well, for starters we could round up the Left and sink them.  I'm sure their bones would make for great reef beds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, for starters we could round up the Left and sink them.  I&#8217;m sure their bones would make for great reef beds.</p>
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		<title>By: Vladimir</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14654</link>
		<dc:creator>Vladimir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14654</guid>
		<description>The tanks and vessels that actually hold the oil are not part of what is reefed.

The main part that is scuttled to make the reef is the large metal truss structure called the "jacket". It's not smart enough to know whether it was once part of an oil platform, part of a ship, or part of a bridge; it's a big, dumb, harmless hunk of steel.

Anything that can't be made pristine is hauled ashore &#38; cut up for scrap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tanks and vessels that actually hold the oil are not part of what is reefed.</p>
<p>The main part that is scuttled to make the reef is the large metal truss structure called the &#8220;jacket&#8221;. It&#8217;s not smart enough to know whether it was once part of an oil platform, part of a ship, or part of a bridge; it&#8217;s a big, dumb, harmless hunk of steel.</p>
<p>Anything that can&#8217;t be made pristine is hauled ashore &amp; cut up for scrap.</p>
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		<title>By: GreyCloak</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14653</link>
		<dc:creator>GreyCloak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14653</guid>
		<description>Pipeline facts are perverted, but &lt;a href="http://www.businessandmedia.org/news/2006/news20060419.asp" rel="nofollow"&gt;the truth is only kinky&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;... the caribou herd “has not only survived, but flourished. In 1977, as the Prudhoe region started delivering oil to America's southern 48 states, the Central Arctic caribou herd numbered 6,000; it has since grown to 27,128.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Fact is: the Alaskan Pipeline only made wildlife more frisky!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pipeline facts are perverted, but <a href="http://www.businessandmedia.org/news/2006/news20060419.asp" rel="nofollow">the truth is only kinky</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230; the caribou herd “has not only survived, but flourished. In 1977, as the Prudhoe region started delivering oil to America&#8217;s southern 48 states, the Central Arctic caribou herd numbered 6,000; it has since grown to 27,128.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Fact is: the Alaskan Pipeline only made wildlife more frisky!</p>
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		<title>By: Achance</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14652</link>
		<dc:creator>Achance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14652</guid>
		<description>The Trans-Alaska Pipeline right of way and the Haul Road right of way alongside it are areas that can't be hunted and you can't hunt within a quarter mile of either side of them.  Wild animals really aren't very smart, but they're smart about staying alive.

You'll rarely see a moose in the open country of Alaska, but you'll see lots of them in Anchorage and Fairbanks subdivisions where they can't be hunted.  Likewise, bears are rarely seen except on the salmon streams and in the cities and city dumps where they can't be hunted.

In any event, the Producers went to extraordinary lengths to make sure that the TAPS didn't interfere with caribou migration or other wildlife.  If it has had any effect at all, it has increased the number of caribou by providing a safe haven for them where they can't be hunted and an 800 mile long corridor of flat, open ground where they can browse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Trans-Alaska Pipeline right of way and the Haul Road right of way alongside it are areas that can&#8217;t be hunted and you can&#8217;t hunt within a quarter mile of either side of them.  Wild animals really aren&#8217;t very smart, but they&#8217;re smart about staying alive.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll rarely see a moose in the open country of Alaska, but you&#8217;ll see lots of them in Anchorage and Fairbanks subdivisions where they can&#8217;t be hunted.  Likewise, bears are rarely seen except on the salmon streams and in the cities and city dumps where they can&#8217;t be hunted.</p>
<p>In any event, the Producers went to extraordinary lengths to make sure that the TAPS didn&#8217;t interfere with caribou migration or other wildlife.  If it has had any effect at all, it has increased the number of caribou by providing a safe haven for them where they can&#8217;t be hunted and an 800 mile long corridor of flat, open ground where they can browse.</p>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14651</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14651</guid>
		<description>along those same lines.... Facts go right over Liberal heads!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>along those same lines&#8230;. Facts go right over Liberal heads!</p>
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		<title>By: GreyCloak</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14649</link>
		<dc:creator>GreyCloak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14649</guid>
		<description>I don't see any fishermen commenting. There is no better place to tie up or fish off of than an old platform if you want Grouper (or Sea Bass).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see any fishermen commenting. There is no better place to tie up or fish off of than an old platform if you want Grouper (or Sea Bass).</p>
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		<title>By: oldtexan</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14647</link>
		<dc:creator>oldtexan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 02:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14647</guid>
		<description>As long as we make products out of plastic, there will be drilling for oil.
I don't know of any vehicle that runs on Obungholes unicorn pelets.
Some day this will come back around. hopefully</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as we make products out of plastic, there will be drilling for oil.<br />
I don&#8217;t know of any vehicle that runs on Obungholes unicorn pelets.<br />
Some day this will come back around. hopefully</p>
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		<title>By: MacAoidh</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14645</link>
		<dc:creator>MacAoidh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 01:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14645</guid>
		<description>...Obama's cap-and-trade program will destroy Louisiana's offshore oil and gas sector and put tens of thousands of hard-working Americans out of work.

http://www.thehayride.com/2009/04/scalise-trashes-cap-and-trade.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;Obama&#8217;s cap-and-trade program will destroy Louisiana&#8217;s offshore oil and gas sector and put tens of thousands of hard-working Americans out of work.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thehayride.com/2009/04/scalise-trashes-cap-and-trade.html">http://www.thehayride.com/2009/04/scalise-trashes-cap-and-trade.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Moe Lane</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14643</link>
		<dc:creator>Moe Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 01:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14643</guid>
		<description>But I'm going to have to ask that you stop promoting your life-denying agenda here.

Now say "Yes, Moe.  I'm sorry that I did that."  Next post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I&#8217;m going to have to ask that you stop promoting your life-denying agenda here.</p>
<p>Now say &#8220;Yes, Moe.  I&#8217;m sorry that I did that.&#8221;  Next post.</p>
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		<title>By: ssm</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14642</link>
		<dc:creator>ssm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14642</guid>
		<description>I was talking about how the title of this entry reads "Want to promote ocean biodiversity? Increase offshore drilling. " 

But the article cited does not establish this connection at all. (No surprise, since the claim is absurd.)  Instead it only says that having large objects in the water that can server as shelter and a place for shell fish to attach itself can benefit marine life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was talking about how the title of this entry reads &#8220;Want to promote ocean biodiversity? Increase offshore drilling. &#8221; </p>
<p>But the article cited does not establish this connection at all. (No surprise, since the claim is absurd.)  Instead it only says that having large objects in the water that can server as shelter and a place for shell fish to attach itself can benefit marine life.</p>
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		<title>By: Pomme</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14641</link>
		<dc:creator>Pomme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14641</guid>
		<description>Also, the topic was that the argument that oil rigs hurt the environment was a pretty flimsy one, not that there weren't better ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, the topic was that the argument that oil rigs hurt the environment was a pretty flimsy one, not that there weren&#8217;t better ways.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pomme</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14640</link>
		<dc:creator>Pomme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14640</guid>
		<description>No matter how you cherry-coat it, there is always the chance for an accident.

My argument was your use of an absolute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No matter how you cherry-coat it, there is always the chance for an accident.</p>
<p>My argument was your use of an absolute.</p>
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		<title>By: ssm</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14639</link>
		<dc:creator>ssm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14639</guid>
		<description>Pomme,

Are you saying that oil rigs are just as safe to use as artifical reefs than lowering large metal structures to the bottom of the ocean that will just lay there dormant???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pomme,</p>
<p>Are you saying that oil rigs are just as safe to use as artifical reefs than lowering large metal structures to the bottom of the ocean that will just lay there dormant???</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pomme</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14638</link>
		<dc:creator>Pomme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14638</guid>
		<description>Absolutely &lt;i&gt;no&lt;/i&gt; chances for accidents.

I have a bridge I'd like to sell you, since you're in the market!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely <i>no</i> chances for accidents.</p>
<p>I have a bridge I&#8217;d like to sell you, since you&#8217;re in the market!</p>
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		<title>By: E Pluribus Unum</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14635</link>
		<dc:creator>E Pluribus Unum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14635</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<br />
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		<title>By: ssm</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14634</link>
		<dc:creator>ssm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14634</guid>
		<description>The article seems to prove that artificial reefs are benefitial for marine life. But to say that this proves that we need to expand offshore drilling is just rediculous and not a logic argument.

If the objective is to benefit marine life by increasing the amount of artifical reefs, then there are better, safer way to do it. How about just having a program that creates artifical reefs? It is very simple to do. All it takes it just to dump large metal/plastic/composit object in the ocean. For example, I once read an article how in New York they threw old metro cars in the ocean, to create large artificial reefs. 

Imagine a program where all the old cars, busses, trucks, train cars are first cleaned up from oils, etc, and then dumped into the ocean so the marine life can form around those artifical reefs.

This would achine the objective of benefiting the ocean life, without building all those oil rigs that could break and leak oil And even, if you argue that the chances of accidents are very small, you must acknoledge that there are absolutely no chances of accidents with the program I described above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article seems to prove that artificial reefs are benefitial for marine life. But to say that this proves that we need to expand offshore drilling is just rediculous and not a logic argument.</p>
<p>If the objective is to benefit marine life by increasing the amount of artifical reefs, then there are better, safer way to do it. How about just having a program that creates artifical reefs? It is very simple to do. All it takes it just to dump large metal/plastic/composit object in the ocean. For example, I once read an article how in New York they threw old metro cars in the ocean, to create large artificial reefs. </p>
<p>Imagine a program where all the old cars, busses, trucks, train cars are first cleaned up from oils, etc, and then dumped into the ocean so the marine life can form around those artifical reefs.</p>
<p>This would achine the objective of benefiting the ocean life, without building all those oil rigs that could break and leak oil And even, if you argue that the chances of accidents are very small, you must acknoledge that there are absolutely no chances of accidents with the program I described above.</p>
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		<title>By: Vladimir</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14632</link>
		<dc:creator>Vladimir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14632</guid>
		<description>The more the gov't tries to screw with the oil market, the better for the oil producer (which is me). The best year  for oil &#38; gas was 1981, on the heels of Nixon's price controls and Carter's Windfall Profits Tax.

Then Reagan decontrolled oil &#38; gas. There was actually an oversupply of both &#38; prices were low for 20 years.

But, OTOH, it's bad policy for the overall economy &#38; the country's security. So much for greedy, self-interested oil men. 

Any fisherman on the Gulf Coast will tell you where the fish are - near "the rigs" (really platforms, mostly). At the end of a platform's life, they are often "reefed" - sunk in a controlled fashion in a designated artificial reef area, specifically for marine life &#38; diving. If the oil operator saves money by doing so, the savings are split with the state wildlife dept.

If anything's detrimental to the marine population, it's agricultural runoff, which causes an annual &lt;a href="http://archive.redstate.com/blogs/vladimir/2008/mar/17/george_bush_is_doctor_evil" rel="nofollow"&gt;"Dead Zone"&lt;/a&gt; (scroll down for bibliography). And the main culprit there is BIG CORN, heavily subsidized entrant into the energy industry.

Many don't know, don't understand, or don't care that oil moves form offshore platforms primarily in pipelines, the safest method from an environmental standpoint. The worst method to move oil around is in boats, which sooner or later is going to spill. The less domestic oil we produce, the more foreign oil we have to bring in in boats.

Also in the "don't know, don't understand, or don't care" category is the fact that an offshore operator is required to report any spill of oil which causes a sheen on the water - there is no minimum reportable quantity. &lt;a href="http://archive.redstate.com/blogs/vladimir/2008/jun/20/oil_spill" rel="nofollow"&gt;See this old diary.&lt;/a&gt;

Ahhhhh. Don't get me started, Moe!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more the gov&#8217;t tries to screw with the oil market, the better for the oil producer (which is me). The best year  for oil &amp; gas was 1981, on the heels of Nixon&#8217;s price controls and Carter&#8217;s Windfall Profits Tax.</p>
<p>Then Reagan decontrolled oil &amp; gas. There was actually an oversupply of both &amp; prices were low for 20 years.</p>
<p>But, OTOH, it&#8217;s bad policy for the overall economy &amp; the country&#8217;s security. So much for greedy, self-interested oil men. </p>
<p>Any fisherman on the Gulf Coast will tell you where the fish are - near &#8220;the rigs&#8221; (really platforms, mostly). At the end of a platform&#8217;s life, they are often &#8220;reefed&#8221; - sunk in a controlled fashion in a designated artificial reef area, specifically for marine life &amp; diving. If the oil operator saves money by doing so, the savings are split with the state wildlife dept.</p>
<p>If anything&#8217;s detrimental to the marine population, it&#8217;s agricultural runoff, which causes an annual <a href="http://archive.redstate.com/blogs/vladimir/2008/mar/17/george_bush_is_doctor_evil" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Dead Zone&#8221;</a> (scroll down for bibliography). And the main culprit there is BIG CORN, heavily subsidized entrant into the energy industry.</p>
<p>Many don&#8217;t know, don&#8217;t understand, or don&#8217;t care that oil moves form offshore platforms primarily in pipelines, the safest method from an environmental standpoint. The worst method to move oil around is in boats, which sooner or later is going to spill. The less domestic oil we produce, the more foreign oil we have to bring in in boats.</p>
<p>Also in the &#8220;don&#8217;t know, don&#8217;t understand, or don&#8217;t care&#8221; category is the fact that an offshore operator is required to report any spill of oil which causes a sheen on the water - there is no minimum reportable quantity. <a href="http://archive.redstate.com/blogs/vladimir/2008/jun/20/oil_spill" rel="nofollow">See this old diary.</a></p>
<p>Ahhhhh. Don&#8217;t get me started, Moe!</p>
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		<title>By: Nuclearnerd</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14631</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuclearnerd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14631</guid>
		<description>The people I always encountered acted llike Haliburton and Cheney had pump stations set up in the Gulf to fill the blowholes of every passing whale.  Hard to claim infinite greed of oil industry and then claim they would flaunt environmental laws at ridiculous costs.  I work in oilfield sevices and we have environmental people on full time who actually make global warming videos. Doesn't make much sense to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The people I always encountered acted llike Haliburton and Cheney had pump stations set up in the Gulf to fill the blowholes of every passing whale.  Hard to claim infinite greed of oil industry and then claim they would flaunt environmental laws at ridiculous costs.  I work in oilfield sevices and we have environmental people on full time who actually make global warming videos. Doesn&#8217;t make much sense to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael DeWeese</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/28/want-to-promote-ocean-biodiversity-increase-offshore-drilling/#comment-14630</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael DeWeese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2514#comment-14630</guid>
		<description>But environmentalist seem to ignore it, go figure. Along with artificical reefs, man made structures in the oceans have been a haven for wildlife and has been common knowledge to scientists since the 70's.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But environmentalist seem to ignore it, go figure. Along with artificical reefs, man made structures in the oceans have been a haven for wildlife and has been common knowledge to scientists since the 70&#8217;s.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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