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FRONT PAGE CONTRIBUTOR

Rich Obama supporters start realize that he’s talking about *them*.

Look, I understand the temptation to mock. I really do.

Barack Obama’s rich supporters fear his tax plans show he’s a class warrior

Wealthy Wall Street financiers and other business figures provided crucial support for Mr Obama during the election, backing him over the Republican candidate John McCain as the right leader to rescue the collapsing US economy.

But it is now dawning on many among them that Mr Obama was serious about his campaign trail promises to bring root and branch reform to corporate America – and that they were more than just election rhetoric.

A top Obama fundraiser and hedge fund manager said: “I’m appalled at the anti-Wall Street rhetoric. It was OK on the campaign but now it’s the real world. I’m surprised that Obama is turning out to be so left-wing. He’s a real class warrior.”

It’s a powerful temptation; worse and worse, it’s a justified one. You knew and I knew that this was going to happen. You knew and I knew that the upper classes were going to be subject to the Democrats’ faux-populism soon enough. You knew and I knew that they were going to raise tax rates on the wealthy, and never mind that it won’t actually work. And you knew and I knew that when Rahm Emanuel informed the world that you never let a good crisis go to waste, he meant it. So, it seems almost a duty to mock the people who are just now coming to the realization that they’re not only going to get beaten with clubs; they’re going to get beaten with the clubs that they themselves have paid for.

But you must resist: pleasant as ‘I told you so’ might be, it distracts from the long-term goal. Said goal being, of course, making it clear that if you have money, or would like to make money, it is against your class interests to vote for a Democrat. Including the ones that you think will back you up in a pinch (like the ones quoted in the article above): because… they won’t.

So. A soft word, and a pleasant smile. And if/when they complain that the GOP was/is just as bad, spread your hands and ask gently if they think that they’ll still be of that opinion six months from now.

Moe Lane

Crossposted to Moe Lane.

COMMENTS

  • janis

    I shall hastily retire to the nearest closet and hoot like a loon at the idiots who didn’t see this coming. The notion that folks like Tom Lauria donated some $10,000 to the Dems just so he could be clubbed like a baby seal is beyond parody.

  • OneCleverCookie

    They all thought they bought Bill Clinton. After all Bill Clinton is salesman just like themselves. Bill is about Bill, and as with all corrupt politicians you can fight them because you know exactly what their intentions are. However, in the case of Mr. Barak Obama, he is a zealot, true believer in his collectivist social justice agenda.

    I wish I had a nickel for every time I voiced concerns about Barak Obama’s rhetoric concerning his socialistic ideal, but the Lemmings would rebuff to say, “Oh, he really isn’t going to do that. He’s just saying that stuff for the little people.”

    Before his administration is over, there will be an overwhelmingly majority of formerly ‘rich’ people that will say, “I never voted for him” because they will be too embarrassed to affirm their complicity in our country’s social and economic demise.

  • spaceman_spiff

    Moe, you are right. The statement ‘I told you so’ will only foster contempt. A pleasant ‘Would you like to try it our way this time?’ or ‘Do you have a plan or would you like to try it our way this time?’ My belief is that this would help the Conservative cause and at the same time allow the rich elitist to save face, something that can only help us in this this dire situation.

    The
    American Form of Government

  • Tbone

    enough money in the future to pay taxes, you should vote Republican. If you consume taxes, you should vote for Democrats.

    This should be the mantra of the Republican Party.

  • olsmithie

    I must echo OneClever above and repeat “Duh!”
    What were they thinking?
    How people that stupid and or gullible were able to amass wealth is beyond me.

    Regards

  • http://deweyfromdetroit.com deweyfromdetroit

    That somehow seems un-American.

  • mom2oneson
  • gazill

    “told you so” will not change minds. I like to point out how a certain party always likes to take more and more money (which always gets nods of agreement), and then I follow up with “yet, the people always vote for them.” has it made a difference, I do not know, but I keep trying.

  • USNJIMRET
  • spedteacher
  • IJB

    What I’d really like to do is slam these people’s heads up against the interrogation room wall, a la so many cop TV shows and movies.

    Let’s face it – people like these Fat Cats aren’t part of the solution: they’re part of the problem.

    The only question now is who’s gonna “get” them first – their side, or the populists on our side?

    Either way, I don’t care – they have it comin’, AFAIAC…

  • WarEagle01

    I love this one from a top Wall St. guy who still supports Obama: “We badly need some European style social democracy, and Obama might as well start with health care reform.” Because that worked so well in Europe I suppose. Stupid shites.

  • mbecker908

    (and Happy Mother’s Day Flower )
    “If you… hope to make enough money…” – that would be “the poor”.

    Frankly, if someone is never expecting to make enough money to pay taxes they are the core constituency of the Democratic Party. Their votes are bought and paid for with the money of the people who DO pay taxes. And they will NEVER vote Republican.

  • mbecker908

    euthanasia.

  • fotophun

    the elitists think their money makes them smart
    in truth it just blinds them
    it is sad how the media created Bush to look like a monster, the truth is
    ONE TRULY HAD A HEART FOR THE PEOPLE AND THE COUNTRY, Bush of course

    and ONE TRULY HAS A HEART ONLY FOR HIMSELF
    Obama is a WOLF in SHEEP’S clothing
    but by the time his lemmings wake up it may be too late

  • TNJim

    “See, I told you so”.

    Though it was written during the Clinton years, I may have to re-read it and his second to see how much they apply to today. Then there’s Levin’s “Liberty and Tyranny”….

    Tomes for our times.

  • student

    The easiest way to bring the deluded people who bought into Obama’s rap back to reality is a re-frame – Yup. It is a shame he did not stick with the centrist rhetoric he campaigned on and instead immediately went back to the ultra-left collectivist politics one would expect from a Chicago neighborhood activist, Acorn politics.

    Meanwhile the real turn around will come when the inevitable hyperinflation hits. The money supply is being hugely expanded by $10T from the Fed and by massive Obama deficit spending focused entirely on enlargement of government not production. Meanwhile the productive capacity of the country will be suppressed by massive tax increases (income, capital gains, carbon), hyper-regulation, the imposition of thug generated unionization (with the effective elimination of the secret ballot) and the use of intimidation to the point of extortion to enforce government dictats (see Chrysler note holders and AIG employees).

    Increased money supply + suppression of production = hyperinflation

    The hyperinflation will hit everybody. There was no inflation when Obama came in so this cannot be blamed on Bush. This is what will drive the turn around. He will try to blame the economic stagnation his policies cause on Bush but as people are hit with the hyperinflation they will see the disaster his policies have caused clearly. Obama is Jimmy Carter the Second – in his weak foreign policy as well – and in the end he will be just as reviled.

    The task for Conservatives is to work through the ideas we will use to engineer the great recovery that must follow the emerging Obama Disaster.

  • mom2oneson

    We skipped Sunday school this morning I told me we were going to service only and I would get him a donut from the gas station because I needed coffee from there! He is putting on his sneakers now :)

    I don’t understand the poor=democrat or wanting to suck tax money type of thinking. My grandma was poor, she worked a low paying factory job. I lived with her for a long time and I thought democrat was some kind of evil character trait. Like if we heard something on the news or they say a news article they would like say oh democrat or oh those crazy liberals or those feminists LOL. We had a pic of Ronald Reagan in our living room. There are many people that realistically won’t get the skills to increase their earning ability or have their health improve to get off disability but they aren’t automically democrats. My grandma never ever took any public assistance and she was always critical of the wasteful spending she saw the first part of the month and she always gave to places like CBN and she would find things at thrift stores to give to teen challenge like suits or coats. I’m just using her as an example I’m sure there are tons of other people like here that will not realistically increase their earnings but would *never* vote democrat. I just don’t get the connection and actually on this board was the first time I ever heard of it. I kind of thought the opposite because it seemed like most (not all) of the wealthier people I knew were not Christians and they were very liberal (like for abortion). Growing up I thought republican meant like honest, hard working, opportunities, people that saved money, prayed before meals, etc. :)

    Off to get my coffee . :)

  • mom2oneson

    Thanks for the Happy Mother’s Day!! Wishing the Mrs.Mbeckers the same!!!! :)

  • mbecker908

    “Poor” when we grew up and “poor” now are entirely different critters. The poor of today are that way because they are victims. We were poor because we’d fallen on hard times or made a lousy decision. Please, also keep in mind that I’m talking about generalities and we can always find specifics who don’t fit the norm.

  • 6eorge Jetson

  • Swamp_Yankee

    n/t

  • mbecker908

    Where the hell were you in October and November? If anything, he’s moved right since his inauguration.

  • anotherindyfilmguy

    Either…
    Because they live in America where they aren’t punished for their relative stupidity/views or robbed incessantly etc like in other less tolerant nations around the globe.
    Or…
    A very real culture of exclusive networking corruption on which they’ve fed for so long they don’t realize what real ethics are anymore…
    etc.

  • anotherindyfilmguy

    Same thing for Germany in the 1930′s – the upper class/rich supporters of Herr Hitler thought “we can control him” and/or “he won’t do all that stuff-it’s insane…”.
    Well to quote Gomer – “Surprise-Surprise-Surprise…”

  • 10ksnooker

    It is really horrifying how dumb allegedly smart Obama voters are. Hate blinds, and the Democrats used Bush hate to the fullest.

    Suckers doesn’t begin to describe …

  • Achance

    From the elite Universities and Biz Schools to the corporations, the culture is one of privilege and a firm belief that rules are for suckers. You see it in govenment as well where the government becomes a culture of insiders who manage to use “mushroom management” (keep ‘em in the dark and feed them s@#t) on the elected and appointed officials and run the government for their own benefit.

  • David123

    Many people who voted for Obama didn’t get what they were voting for. Pointing this out is excellent.

  • David123

    If there’s one thing I remember about Obama’s stated campaign, that was it – oh and “John McCain is going to tax your health benefits”

    Now that’s the stuff Obama was SAYING. As for me, I didn’t believe him. I think anybody who launches his political career from a terrorist’s house and goes to an America-cursing church for 20 years is not to be trusted. But some people paid more attention to Obama’s aura than to his associations – and anything that results in buyer’s remorse and seeing reality clearly for those people is a good thing.

  • mbecker908

    since the election.

  • Hera

    As a committed member of Rev Wrights church for 20 years I knew Barry was going to gouge the rich just as he said he would. I also knew there was no way he would not gouge the middle class as well because that’s where the real money is to pay for the social programs for Obama supporters.Barry’s paltry middle class “tax cut” is already going away. Anyone with eyes could see what was going to happen so I feel no sorrow for Obama supporters with buyers remorse.You got what you deserved suckers.

  • David123

    1. Obama was going to bring us a new era of bipartisanship. “I WON”

    2. The stimulus with money for ACORN – how is ACORN going to create economic growth?

    3. He “talked” about closing GITMO. How many people figured he’d make that a top priority? Maybe he thinks some of the guys in everyone’s neighborhood should be terrorists.

    4. I make a lot less than $250,000. WHERE’S MY TAX CUT? Oh, and I don’t want some garbage about how one tax got reduced a tiny bit while other taxes went up; I want a REAL tax cut – when I add up ALL the money I pay for ALL taxes I should pay less tax.

    5. That “evil John W Bush-McCain” was going to tax health benefits – after the election the Democrats start talking about taxing health benefits.

    6. Before the election, I figured John McCain and Colin Powell were patriotic Americans. Well, now Obama’s DHS tells me these guys are extremist terrorist risks because they’re veterans.

    Now, you and I and a lot of people on Redstate paid attention before Nov 4. We realized that there was a real risk of hard left stuff coming if Obama won. But it is good to encourage the people who were naive or not paying attention last November to pay attention now – to what Obama is doing.

  • blooch

    Or capitalist hatin’, for that matter. I have a Lefty Loon friend who e-mailed me Lefty jokes and propaganda all through “08, which I ignored. My wife made the mistake of forwarding her an old joke about the boss who has to lay off some employees and goes thought the parkng lot firing all the ones with Obama bumper stickers. This is the reply my wife received:

    “I hope you are aware that I voted for Obama. Why is our national deficit so large that we now have to pay higher taxes to lower it? (could it be because our previous government decided to borrow money from other countries to pay for an unnecessary war so that he wouldn’t have to raise our taxes and become “unpopular”?) In other words, how did Geroge Bush raise the money for a 10 billion a month war? Did he take it out of our pockets or borrow it from China? And who is paying it back now? What costs this country more? Corporate crime or welfare? Look it up!! it’s not the poor who are robbing you blind. It’s a war that we can’t afford, and the corporate crimininals on Wall Street!!”

    I would LOL if it wasn’t so pathetic. She and her ilk will still be railing against Bush and the Tophats four years from now, completely oblivious to Obama/Pelosi/Reid depredations.

  • BD57

    Over the years – and with Republican complicity – we’ve been gradually reducing the percentage of working age Americans paying taxes.

    People vote their own interests. People who pay no taxes have no reason to concern themselves with those who do – arguing that taking more money away from their employer eventually hurts them won’t do it.

    Years ago, as an April Fool’s Day gag, Limbaugh argued for taxing the poor. Though it WAS a gag, there was a kernel of truth in there – - – the only way to prevent people voting themselves largess from their neighbors’ wallet is to make everyone contribute something to the pot.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    How quaint

  • avgamerican

    I think out of all the Obama supporters this group irks me the most. They don’t care about high taxes because the way they figure I’ve still got my millions while the average working middle class struggles. One thing is for sure, I never voted based on a belief that I expected my government to elevate me above others. I’d surely like to know what these Wall Street Gooroos thought Obama stood for. Or did it matter to them. Maybe they just hate America and figured Obama was the best candidate to destroy it. Or maybe they thought they were speculating with investor money and anticipated correctly that Obama would bail them out. Just like many of my fellow real Americans posting here, I can only say I have no sorrow for these people. In fact I hope they get gutted by the one they voted for.

  • smagar

    On Friday night, I had the privlege of hearing Jeff FLake speak to the Pima County GOP. He remarked that more and more people are having buyers’ remorse over their votes in November.

    If we beat and shame these Obama voters in public, I fear that many of them will reflexively try to justify their actions by not turning on Obama. Remember—a lot of folks live in places where it’s not OK to criticize Obama in social circles.

    We need to give these people hope, instead of shaming them in public. Now is the time for honey, not vinegar.

    I recommend an approach like this:

    Yep, Obama lied to you, didn’t he? And the media didn’t question him closely, because they wanted to see him elected, didn’t they?

    Well, it’s not too late. All of Congress and one-third of the Senate turns over in about 18 months. Those candidates are working on their reelections NOW.

    Those folks know that, if people want to take out their anger on Democrats, THEY are the closest targets at hand.

    If we put the heat on them, they’ll put the heat on Obama. And we can get this thing turned around.

    Care to join us?

  • 6eorge Jetson

    could see that Obama told two strikingly different stories in his primary and general election campaigns.

    A little lesson for the rich, indulgent elites…”wink, wink” can mean anything.

  • mbecker908

    Number 5 wasn’t either, McCain just didn’t challenge him.

    Number six has nothing to do with Obama.

    The guy clearly said he was going to raise taxes on “the rich”. The “95% of Americans…” was just blather.

    He said he was going to close GITMO. Period.
    He said he was going to close corporate loopholes that allow corporations to outsource jobs.
    He said he was going to pass a comprehensive immigration bill.
    He said he was going to negotiate directly with Iran.

    Blah, blah, blah.

    Bottom line, there was nothing in the campaign that came even close to centrist rhetoric. MoveOn would have been all over him like flies on cat s**t. What he’s done since the inauguration is to move right on a number of issues and do what he said on most everything else – especially taxes.

    I’m waiting for the UAW to get buyers remorse when GM production moves to Mexico.

  • mom2oneson

    eliminating refundable credits. I don’t understand why republicans have made or supported these refundable tax credits. We should eliminate the adoption tax credits too.

  • blooch

    “Sure…got any Dijon? The yellow mustard gives me gas.”

  • USNJIMRET

    Talking heads on the tube ‘said’ he was, and the Media claimed he was, so for a lot of idiot voters, he was.

  • avgamerican

    You’re right smagar. In an interview, writer, speaker, Mark Victor Hansen described the “Goldman Sachs” supporters of Obama in this way. They don’t care about higher taxes on the rich because they make millions. If they lose 15 million in taxes and keep 5 million, they are okay. It gives them a sense of relieving their guilty conscience in a kind of “remote control” giving fashion. It’s the 250,000 dollar a year guy who makes the most sacrifice, but stands to lose the most. But you’re thoughts on this are good to keep in mind.

  • avgamerican

    NO COMMON SENSE. The inability to rationalize a simple manifistation of reality.

  • spaceman_spiff

    To beat a dead horse.

    The
    American Form of Goverment

  • avgamerican

    Are there really conservatives in Detroit?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Why would you doubt that?

  • blooch

    ?If you tell a truth big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The truth can be ignored only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the truth.”

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    A place may be 80/20 D/R, but that doesn’t change the views of the 20.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    For having the wrong political views?

    For having “too much money?”

  • blooch

    in Obama’s plans for their principal.

  • JadedByPolitics

    Yes and yes because having so much money and being stupid on top of it negates any sympathy…I hope they are STONE COLD BROKE at the end of the one’s reign!

  • avgamerican

    I have nothing against you…I’m in California. HAHAHA

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    And that’s why I reacted as I do :-)

  • Tbone

    Our society is distilling between people who pay taxes and people who consume taxes. Tax consumers are not just poor, wefare recipients. They aren’t ever going to get much of anything anyway.

    The real tax consumers are the public employees. You have firefighters making $100,000 a year and people standing in line to get those jobs. If firefighting was a private concern they would be making $40,000 per year. Go to the DMV. It is that way throughout government.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    Joking, of course,

    There are plenty of Conservatives, but certainly nowhere close enough to make headway…. and if we did ACORN would insure all the fictitious characters at Disney, Warner, etc… were registered and voted here rather than Chicago ;-)

  • Achance

    If they’re really rich, they just put the money somewhere else, and if it really gets to SHTF time, they just become fashionable expatriates, e.g., the White Russians in Paris. If they’re just rich-living wage slaves, even if they think they’re ruling class, they’re going to get screwed like the rest of us. Life won’t be good when the ACORN guys come to their house and tell them how many families are moving in with them or when the Volunteer Brigades come and start examining their hands for calouses.

  • IJB

    …And a good percentage of them are evil to boot.

    Truly self-made men generally aren’t as stupid as trust-fund and “entitlement” richie riches (though people like Bill Gates prove that it’s often not the case even then), but far too much of the rich is now totally insulated from the real world.

    It’s gotten to the point that when the mob comes for most of them, I’ll be cheering them on (if not grabbing torches and pitchforks myself).

    Anyone who supported Obama deserves what’s comin’ to them.

    No sympathy. And no help from me…

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • char

    It is always the UK papers that report on Obama losing his shine.

  • char

    Democrat capitalists now see that they do not fit in Obama’s tent. Cut them some slack and remind them which party actually wants them to succeed. Right now there is a war raging over capitalism vs The State. Obama has ticked off most of the multinationals pharmaceuticals, loan providers, banks, silicon valley, manufacturers, and energy companies. We need capitalism to win and to realize that an attack on one is an attack on all.

  • 6eorge Jetson
  • char

    I believe that Laffer called it the “great destroyer of wealth”. If 70s style inflation hits (not to mention hyper inflation) then the Republicans will be back in power for decades because all will see that the dems can’t manage the economy. I for one consider this to be too steep a price to pay so I hope it doesn’t happen, then again our party isn’t writing and approving the federal budget so we don’t have much of a say.

    In the meantime I have been encouraging all my friends to buy the now steeply discounted housing in CA to take advantage of low interest rates. We may never see such low rates in our lives again :(

  • mom2oneson

    I’ve wondered that too especially with the public schools why they aren’t considered as sucking the tax money and getting paid big salaries but women on TANF are always brought up when it comes to wasting tax money.

  • http://deweyfromdetroit.com deweyfromdetroit

    We are a petri-dish of liberal pathogens. Over 50 years of Democratic leadership in the city has created a pathetic populace of chronic victims and the parasites that prey on them.

    Worse, it has destroyed families and businesses that once made this a proud and productive city.

    Pray for us.

  • mbecker908

    who made over $100,000 last year.

  • izoneguy

    Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA
    Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA

    Now that I got that out of my system….

    I just hope these dopes have enough money left to go buy some bigger clubs to beat up Obama and his thugs…

    You know the old expressions….

    Don’t cry over spilled milk….
    Once the horse’s are out of the barn….
    You can’t put the genie back in the bottle….

    I can go on and on…..

    And yet the rich nutroots will continue to support nutroot candidates who will only promise more & more taxes…you will won’t you??

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124183390482402969.html

  • Tbone

    to weld the doors shut and we wouldn’t need a bunch a dirty, stinkin’ screws.

  • blooch

    http://www.inquisitr.com/23742/obama-prepares-ground-for-newspaper-bailout-at-white-house-correspondents-dinner/

  • blooch
  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    I’ve been saying that since the Democrats took Congress in2006 – before that it was Liberal Democrats looking to do for Michigan what they’ve done to Detroit, and they have most certainly done (destroyed Michigan as they did Detroit) that.

    We have the idiots that re-elected Canadian Socialist Granholm and she is now doing the usual EXTORTION — cutting and threatening to cut more POLICE and other critical services so they (Dems) can whine to their fellow Liberals/Progressives/Socialists/etc… that they will need to allow them to RAISE TAXES, Fees, etc… Meanwhile, of course, they keep 100′s of Millions in Tax incentives to their Liberal Hollywood friends to make films here so they can show all the burnt out neighborhoods (on-screen catalog of what the Liberals did to the area, but the morons seeing the films won’t get it – see Gran Torino, Butterfly Effect 3: Revelations, and others)…. Certainly, we Conservatives/Republicans understand that incentives to have, bring, keep, generate, etc, jobs are useful – but we’d rather help create PERMANENT jobs not temporary help positions on (what amounts to) seasonal business. We’d rather PERMANENTLY CUT TAXES in order to keep businesses already here to be able to stay, to compete with other States to bring more permanent businesses, stop the flood of jobs/businesses from leaving Michigan, etc… The Democrats DO NOT – they just do their usual REWARD/PUNISHMENT with only TEMPORARY HANDOUTS to those they like and PERMANENT PUNISHMENT with higher taxation for everyone else. Still they have not learned, and never will, and jobs continue to flow out of the State at record paces (that only occurs during Democrat controlled administrations).

  • mbecker908

    and “wealthy”. Rich are people who work and earn lots of money. And hence, subject to government confiscatory programs. This would be damn near everybody who still works.

    Wealthy people are folks whose money has been around long enough and in enough quantity to be located somewhere so that it is protected from every governmental eventuality. See Ted Kennedy and family. And no, I don’t consider anything the Kennedy family does to be “work”.

  • itrytobenice

    I’ll probably just snorfle, roll my eyes, mutter “Moron!” just loud enough for them to hear, and turn away.

    Fortunately, in my neck of the woods, we were only 20 some percent BO voters, so no one will admit it.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    next time we’ll take better Aim ;-)

  • Warrior

    When they see their lifestyles diminishing, they will be anxious for a change. However, they might be reticent if we shame them publically. Startegic graciousness may be the best course on this front.

    The big question is whether they will wise up before it’s too late.

    The Statists are at the door and the takers are beginning to outnumber the makers. With a filabuster-proof majority in Congress, the Dems could easily make felons and illegal aliens their newest constituency. Then what?

  • smitch61

    We tried to warn you… How can you expect us to defend you when you are too ignorant to defend yourself?

  • avgamerican

    California the Golden State has now become a financial disaster. The only people with good jobs and benefits are government workers. This may start to diminish however because the dwindling tax base can no longer support it. 140 billion dollar deficit.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    More donations from wall street versus more votes in the middle class

    It’s about time the majority of Americans woke up and realized that the Wall Street has more Democrats than Republicans. Jeez, how many Americans realize that it’s in NYC?

  • mom2oneson

    but what about government workers/military that are republicans? Tax consumer=democrat isn’t fair. Retired military are big tax consumers too.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    and actually demanded Democrats begin to work with him to reform the State…. he is just floating along… I guess the Kennedy (more or less) wears the pants in that Governors mansion.

    Governator to Kal-E-Fornians: (in Terminator voice) I’ll be Tax… ing

    Another example of BI-PARTISANSHIP DISEASE in action there in CA… just gets more bad Government…. Bi-Partisanship always drags us Left, never see any of it (with minor exception of Balanced-Budget GOP Revolution crowd FORCING Clinton Right somewhat but only in they slowed his Spending) where the Progressives actually compromise with us to improve anything.

    Republicans must STOP caving, or they will indeed never see a majority ever again.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    and his legions of groupies may just fall for it

  • IJB
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    so you end up with the Terror and then the proto-Fascist Napoleon.

  • IJB
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    And Barack Obama is not the person you have lead your revolution.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com LJ “Beaglescout” Miller

    Being nice and pussy footing around the point is not a good technique for persuading somebody. You have to read Cialdini on Influence or Greene, 48 Laws of Power. The strong ways to convince someone are things like,

    1. directly speaking to someone with their name and asking them for something very specific they can do right now.
    2. telling them that everybody is doing it, it being whatever you want them to do.
    3. giving them an emotional reason to do what you want to do.
    4. do the negative takeaway, where you offer something and quickly take it away, then let them try to talk you into giving it to them. tell them they have to do what you want first.
    5. subtle hints just don’t work. for one thing does anyone know of a man who ever got a hint from his wife? I don’t. hints simply don’t work, certainly not with men and I doubt they work very well with women either. Not compared to more powerful techniques.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    Finding public servants that know when to stop.

    I categorize the role of govt in three parts, the third is to be avoided

    I. Risk Management
    -Defense, Police,
    -Establishing a known set of rules/regulation, laws
    -Protecting those unable to work
    The mentally impared
    The physically sick
    -Providing a limited social safety net
    (Ongoing vigilance is necessary to avoid expansion into
    buying off votes of the self-sufficient)
    II. Value-added endeavors where the private sector leaves a void
    – Infrastructure (bridges, roads, etc)
    – Basic scientific research
    – Public education (its existence, not all aspects of its present incarnation)
    III. Value-added endeavors competing with the private sector
    – IMO, Govt just doesn’t belong here

    How do we find leaders that can get elected without buying votes via promises of services above and beyond the above (without mentioning the costs)? And once these leaders are elected, how many will avoid succombimg to the trappings of power (the ability to benefit from spending others money)?

    Republicans lost many of these domestic policy core values over 2000-2008. (Although I’ve got to tip my hat to Bush on foreign policy.) It’s not an easy sell.

  • mom2oneson

    I was thinking about it tongiht and I thought I never met someone that was poor that thought of themselves as victims. Then I remembered I met someone a few years ago and every time I interacted with them it really depressed me and I would feel kind of anxious over things afterwards. They are well educated and much more articulate than me but it’s like moan sigh groan we are victims to men, society, big business, etc. I’m glad I was sheltered from that type of thinking growing up and I wish I hadn’t ever heard it from this person. Isn’t weird how something like low income/poor can have so much meaning to them that they dwell on it so much. It’s not just with money I think lots of people of different income levels have this type of victim mentality for all kinds of stuff in life. I always called it being ungrateful but I think you nailed it with victim.

  • itrytobenice

    That’s when they start the ‘mercy’ killing. Meaning they will be merciful to the people paying their health care bills.

  • mom2oneson

    I never thought about the trappings of power thanks for explaining that.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com LJ “Beaglescout” Miller

    The possible R voters who could be convinced with facts voted for McCain. The possible R voters who were convinced with feelings voted for Obama. You cannot convince them to go against Obama until you address their feelings. That is why it doesn’t matter whether Obama actually turned left or right. Either way he hardened his totalitarian approach. What matters for persuading them is whether they feel like he turned left after reciting all those vacuous “invisible man” zen koans during the campaign that sounded left to the lefties and conservative to the conservative leaners (like Chris “Sucker” Buckley).

    “student” is talking about very powerful techniques of persuasion here. They sound like NLP to me. These techniques were widely used by Clinton, who hired Tony Robbins to be his guru in them. And I would expect all Obama’s staff to be skilled with them. Certainly his reliance on the word “distraction” is serious NLP. When he says his favorite word, “distraction,” in order to understand what he says the listener needs to actually experience distraction. That throws them off the scent. So what Obama does by calling a point a distraction is to distract the interlocutor so they forget their point. It’s very powerful until you understand how it works and can guard against it.

  • dadre

    The saying is true and was apparent under Bush. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If anyone is against that then they are labeled class warriors. President Obama is definitely fighting the rich….I guess if you consider Clinton a class warrior too. Also are we that self centered that we can’t do something for someone less fortunate without knowing that we can write it off on our taxes? If so then this may be a constant spiral with this thinking.

    The class warfare is in your head…..for there to be a war the other side would have to be able to fight back and if this is the fight back by the poor……then the poor are in trouble

  • dadre

    Also this fallacy that people who are poor are lazy or just didn’t work hard enough. The poor work ten times harder than the rich. If you ever set foot in the ghetto or the boonies you will see hard working people who are kept below a poverty line and the even less fortunate who work two jobs just so the welfare check will be enough to stay alive off of.

    The sad thing is that there are plenty of people who grew up poor and became rich and then forgot where they came from. Forgot how they pay $700 a month just to have a leaky room which they never actually live under because they work 3 jobs. God forbid this person have any children because they will have to be their own mother and father at a young age or a sibling will have to step in.

    Also I am tired of people(there are a lot here) biting their thumb at the poor when most likely you only have the job you do because of a “hook up” Legacy System. that they weren’t welcome in.
    Think about it…with affirmative action a majority of Ethnic individuals and Women are over qualified for the job they currently are employed while almost nearly the same majority
    of whites males are under qualified for their curret employment Also how stupid do you have to be to protest taxes and take public transportation to the rally???? Makes no sense. Most people use tons of public services and then don’t want to pay taxes…you want street signs, lamps, posts, telephone lines, power lines metro buses, subway…..you know how to lower taxes……
    GET RID OF THE TAX LOOPHOLES FOR EVERYONE ESPECIALLY CORPORATIONS.

  • gekster

    When did a Democrat or LIberal do that?
    .

  • Tbone

    nt

  • janis

    as a victim and as “poor” because she and her husband had to give up over $15,000 worth of club memberships in order to reduce expenses. And that was one of their minor expenses. This is a woman who counts on portraying herself as a victim in every circumstance imaginable.

    So there’s more than one kind of poor. For this woman, her poverty is in the character department, not the wallet.

  • mom2oneson

    Don’t get me started on those that think *think* they are broke!
    I get irritated but then in a way I feel bad if they really had a difficulty to face they would probably have a nervous breakdown or something if just having to budget for some luxuries makes them think they are destitute and broke.

  • mom2oneson

    is totally the right word. I guess I always thought of a victim as a true victim and the I think I’m broke because I gave up ___(luxury) as someone that is ungrateful. I get it now though they make themselves out to be like a victim.

  • janis

    life, mom2. You know how strong you are and you know how to endure adversity. Years ago in my first marriage, my husband and I were young and dumb and made all kinds of stupid financial decisions. We bought a small business that we knew nothing about and bought it at the worst possible time– 1974, when the economy was sliding into a really nice recession. We were in debt up to our eyeballs and spent more than one episode at the grocery store adding up all our change to see if we could afford the big can of chili or had to settle for the small can.

    The marriage didn’t last, but the lessons I learned during that time sure did. I never again had a credit card, never got in debt for anything other than a house–now paid off– and I never bought anything that I didn’t want to spend time and money maintaining. Traveling through life lightly suits me the best.

  • Achance

    talks extensively about the Democrat ability to engage emotion while Republicans insist on engaging logic, see, e.g., GWB’s “we’re problem solvers” remark during Katrina.

    When you have a res publica that has been reduced to a medieval level of ignorance and superstition, logic and facts simply don’t work; you need magic, smoke, incense, and Greek columns.

    There really is no getting back the Blue places for a very long time; the cities especially are just too far gone and will be communist controlled so long as something resembling a democracy survives. We need to concentrate on holding on to power in the roughly half the states that we still control and begin expanding our federal presence from those states. The problem is, we will be under assault from the federal government in all our Red states, so we are going to have the Devil’s own time marshalling the resources to play on both defense and offense.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • Achance

    it keep up with it. That’s the misery of the misery index; high unemployment along with high inflation means those working are facing stagnant wages or pay cuts while everything goes up. The ultimate evil evolution of it is that at some point the government can’t afford the social welfare spending necessary to keep the masses sullen but not mutinous and the violence starts. Coming soon to a city near you!

  • olsmithie

    How is that perceived as middle of the road by any measuring stick?
    No wonder the NEA doesn’t teach history in the schools any more.
    People might recognize the old USSR being reconstituted.

    Sad state of affairs.

    Regards

  • janis

    replying to “How to Beat the Democrats” with “The Biggest Damned Club I Can Find.” Preferably one with spikes in the head of it.

  • Warrior

    understand the gist of your post, but you seem to be saying that “fighting the rich” is somehow laudable and eventually a benefit to “the poor.” If that premise is correct, I can only say that “the rich” is not a monolithic block of people, but is constantly changing. Usually, the top fifth drops down to be replaced by the next fifth, the next fifth moves up and so on.

    And usually we are talking about an AGE difference, rather than a class or color difference. It only makes common sense — older folks have been in the work world longer, have more trainning, experience, skills and credentials and therefore make more money.

    And the old stereotype of a bunch of rich white guys smoking cigars on yachts is not refective of reality. People like the John Kerry and Ed Kennedy, who simply married or inherited money are the exception, not the rule. Most of the so called “rich” have been struggling, saving and delaying gratification for decades, not to mention risking everything they have and working a hundred hours a week to make their businesses grow.

    Also, you said something about needing a tax write off for donations. Well, leaving aside for the nonce the fact that conservative Christians are BY FAR more generous with personal charitable donations than the Clinton-Obama crowd, the giant welfare state has made deductions necessary for anyone to survive. You may not realize it, but private donations and charities took care of the poor, however defined, in this country for 150 years before the modern concepts of public asistance took hold. No tax deductions were expected or necessary — it was considered one’s Christian duty to help the poor and since most people were in fact Christians, the poor were cared for, albeit not in the style to which they may have wished…

    And the whole notion of “class warfare” was a Dem political invention whereby poor people were made to feel envious of so-called “fat cats” who were supposedly stealing someone else’s “fair share” of the pie. Of course this politically expedient scam is based on the nonsensical premise that wealth is a zero sum game, i.e. that if I gain “wealth,” that some how “takes” money out of someone else’s pocket. The economy simply doesn’t work that way.

    Indeed, the whole idea that wealth is somehow “distributed” is a gross misrepresentation of reality. A “distrubution” in its’ quotidian sense is a statistical abstract used to describe a set of numbers. Numbers, representing car ownership, salaries, or cows jumping over the moon, can be shown to follow a discrete pattern, or distribution, usually on a graph, as a way to analyze and discuss trends, percentages and so forth. However, to describe wealth in general as being “distributed” implies that some great supernatural, or in this case, malevolent, force both possesses all the wealth and distributes it as well. Such an implication is nonesense with regards the free market (although Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” could be said to do just this,) but not concerning the government, which indeed does control (but not produce) money (as opposed to wealth) and does in fact distribute it, based on, usually, crass political considerations. The unenlightened therefore believe that ALL wealth is somehow “distributed” and that they, in turn, are not receiving their “fair share.” Such a belief system is likely the reason the lamestream media are constantly declaring that it is somehow “unfair” (if true at all, which I doubt) that the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer.

    Having been poor most of my adult life, I will address the second half of your post momentarily (probably after lunch, Central Daylight Time.)

  • olsmithie

    isn’t enough to flush a lifetime of The NY Times and CNN.

    If you study conservatives a bit you may find that that old saying Reagan loved about “a rising tide raises all ships.” was a belief, not a sound byte to get attention like the current administration.
    He actually wanted to raise the condition of all, not just corrporate America, (Corporate America , BTW, who feeds most of the country.)

    You can learn here how to actually help the poor, if that is your burn.

    The Obamanation has doomed the poor to many more years of misery with all his spending. Having no concept of economics and running a country generally results in disastrous results.

    Welcome to RS

    Regards

  • Warrior

    I can’t speak for other people, but I don’t really think most “poor” people are lazy. I do think that many people receiving housing subsidies, rent subsidies, food subsidies, and so on are simply making a choice many would make in the same situation. In my hometown, former housing projects are being torn down and the residents moved. The local housing authority has bought up luxury apartments in which to house them. I heard on the TV this AM that the state of Mass is actually furnishing folks on public assistance with automobiles — free and clear. Now, who would not choose to work 38 hours a week at McDonalds if one can live in a luxe apt, drive a free car, have food provided and enjoy plenty of time off?

    On the other hand, I once lived in a men’s shelter. I chose not to hang around until a spot opened up on the pub housing waiting list, but rather went to work during the day and enrolled in school at night. After twenty years of 18 hour days, two and three jobs at a time, no time off, living in 600 sq ft apts and driving really old cars, I now have something to call my own — by the Grace of God. Am I better than anyone else? Not really, but I was inculcated with a work ethic early in my life and not a sense of victimhood or dependence. I now contribute to the common weal rather than take from it. And the insidious part of making an easier choice, i.e. no forebearance on babies, bling and belly, is that eventually there really is not enough to go around — precisely because the government is indeed now “distriuting” what wealth is left. In Maggie Thacther’s piquant phrase, “…eventually you run out of other people’s money.”

    So, the real problem is governemt making it so much easier for people to live off the fruits of another’s labor. Which brings us to the very definition of poverty. The American usage of the term “poverty” would incite wonder (and jealoussy) in denizens of the third world — even in the second, more industrialized world. Having been in a profession which caused me to “set foot” in the projects (not to mention having friends there,) as well as working among the rural poor, and having occasion, both in the Navy and on international mission trips, to work and live in the thrid world, I can tell you that most of the world’s poor do not have things like big screen, color cable or satellite TV, microwaves, fly rides, no cost groceries, low cost housing, volunteer tutors for the children, breakfast programs, lunch programs, afterschool programs and on and on. They are poor in the sense of not having enough to eat or a roof over their heads at night.

    And many of them are poor becasue there is simply no opportunity. Even in “these tough economic times,” jobs go a begging in the local paper, businesses have “Help Wanted” signs out and positions can be had. And fairly good, well paying jobs. I saw an entry level job stringing cable which paid almost as much as I make NOW — after years of sweat and sacrifice. An article in the Wash Times the other day highlighted the case of a man who “was forced” to take a poorly paid internship at a non-profit because no positions in the field of non-profits were available, even though the young man had great credentiials, including a degree in chemical engineering. It wasn’t until the end of the article that the man revealed he simply didn’t want a job in “his field,” but he wasn’t going to “settle.” Another word for that is “paycheck.” Alas, such is modern America’s perception of poverty and the alleged lack of opportunity.

    Most people who grew up poor and worked to get rich have not “forgotten”
    what it was like at all. What seems to bother some people is that they remember all too well. It took work, sacrifice, putting off children and so forth. And now they expect it of others. BTW, is there a sentient being this side of Pluto who does not yet realize that dropping out of HS to have children is almost always a ticket to life-long poverty and ensures very dismal prospects for the progeny of such choices?

    Furthermore, I didn’t mop floors, dig ditches and swing hammers all day in the red hot Alabama sunshine because of a “Hook up Legacy system,” whatever that is. I got jobs by applying for and sticking to them until something better came along. I worked for black and white bosses alike without concern. They all wanted the same thing — a day’s work.

    You’ll have to re-explain the part about people being over and/or under qualified for their jobs, I just don’t get it. After all, Einstein was a patent clerk for quite a while.

    And I don’t think most conservatives mind paying taxes. What we mind is handing over half of our wages to be wasted or “distributed” to people who have not earned them. Such a perverse system is almost designed to destroy a safe and prosperous nation. And so it will if its’ apologists win the day.

  • blooch

    I tried to ride MARTA to the Tea Party in Atlanta, but I couldn’t get on because the train was crammed full of your strawmen.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Now shoo. And remember: you’re on the side of the people who like to throw minority kids out of rich-white-people schools!

    Blam.

  • The_Gadfly

    The thought was to get the person out of the democrat social-worker grind and allow them to work their way out of poverty. It did somewhat reduce the growth in government social care. Left alone it might have been a workable idea, but it has morphed into something where too many people have been removed from the tax rolls.

  • bret

    “Street signs, lamps, posts, telephone lines, power lines, metro buses, subway” — Congratulations, you just gave a laundry list of public services provided by LOCAL government, not FEDERAL government.

  • mom2oneson
  • mom2oneson
  • Achance

    at work! I bet this one got “Good Trying” and a smiley face on all its papers. The lefties keep showing up and bolstering my conclusion that we have reached a medieval level of ignorance and superstition and therefore really don’t have a society equipped for republican democracy.

  • Jack_Savage

    What a bunch of crap – you know as little about us as you do about the poor, so please spare us your opinions on either. Let me take just one little example of your poor reasoning:

    “The sad thing is that there are plenty of people who grew up poor and became rich and then forgot where they came from.”

    Really? Here in racist America, homeless and hate capital of the world, there are “plenty” of people who grew up poor then became rich? Do you have the faintest notion of how this statement alone completely demolishes your other ninety-five bits of fiction? Or did they have the benefit of the “hook up ‘Legacy System’” which exists only in your fantasy world?

    I would suggest getting out of the dorm room and into the world a little bit. Then report back.

  • mom2oneson

    you have some false information mixed in with pointing out of real problems

    “If you ever set foot in the ghetto”
    I’ve lived here and there are lots of hard working mothers and grandmothers taking care of children and some are employed too but one thing that is SO obviously is there are HUGE amounts of young men doing absolutely nothing. I’m not talking about the exception where you have the man with a much younger wife that had a heart attack and can’t support thier kids and hasn’t gotten disability yet, I mean the young healthy males that are standing around all hours of the day and night. In the projects we lived in there was a community college that had it’s vo-tech campus literally across the street. They had everything there even training in basic skills if they couldn’t pass the first assessment (like for reading and math.) There was so excuse at all for these young men not to be in class there, none at all.