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Abraham Lincoln… didn’t survive the Civil War, Gore Vidal.

By: Moe Lane (Diary)  |  September 30th, 2009 at 10:00 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

He was assassinated just after Lee’s surrender, which is not quite the same thing. And if there’s a reference besides you for this quote:

“I am President of the United States. I have full overall power and never forget it, because I will exercise it.”

…I have yet to find it. Source?

Moe Lane

PS: Like Hot Air, I agree: stop smoking crack on the upcoming military dictatorship thing, Gore Vidal. You too, John Perry.

PPS: Seriously, I can’t find it at all.

Crossposted to Moe Lane.

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  • http://dezignworx-ae.com tsquare

    Vidal complained that we Americans are ‘too stupid by half’

    Well, one of our greatest Americans… Ronald Reagan, when faced with the real possibility that age and illness would dull his wit and loosen his tongue… HE QUIT TALKING!

    A lesson for you Mr Vidal…

  • janis

    “no intellectual class” as the article quotes him to have said. And Obama is “overeducated”? Then why’s the guy such a short-bus POTUS?

  • blooch

    It is actually attributed to Abraham Hussein Jefferson. The full quote reads like this:

    “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism, but I won, and I am the President of the United States. I have full overall power and never forget it, because I will exercise it.?

  • vinnster2

    of military folks are conservative-leaning people who respect the Constitution. If the One tries the Zelaya move, he would most likely end up trying to give speeches from the protection of an foreign embassy or a jail cell.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    I just called an actual Lincoln scholar to get one (voicemail, for the curious). Gore Vidal wrote a historical novel on the President; so I’d expect that he’s got a handle on the subject – so I’m a little surprised that this quote isn’t jumping out at me.

  • Achance

    “Lincoln,” much of which was also made up. I’ve read more than most about that period and I’ve never seen that quote.

  • E Pluribus Unum

    [just kidding]

  • fightinsideofme

    Lincoln probably didn’t say this directly. But he did famously extend executive power to a degree unmatched before or since (suspending habeas corpus, etc.). And he said stuff with the same tenor more than once.
    From a letter to Joseph Hooker:
    “I have heard, in such way as to believe it, of your recently saying that both the Army and the Government needed a Dictator…. Only those generals who gain successes, can set up dictators. What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk the dictatorship.”
    He was a diplomatic guy, so he probably didn’t say any blustering cowboy crap like the Vidal quote, which I’d guess Vidal didn’t intend as a direct quote, since it isn’t one and he’s not an idiot. But Vidal’s point is correct: Lincoln was a strong executive and didn’t hesitate to let his generals know that the ultimate military authority rested with him.

  • blooch

    of your inference. Lincoln is telling his Hooker that he has it backward. Lincoln was saying that dictators always require strong military support, but strong military support does not always result in dictatorship. He was telling Hooker to focus on the tactical job at hand, and not the theoretical power requirements of the Executive.

    The phrase, “…and I will risk the dictatorship.” seems to be humorous chiding of Hooker for thinking that Lincoln would ever consider assuming dictatorial authority. That is more in lline with my idea of Linclon’s personality and wit, but I could be wrong.

    And “full overall authority” is not the same thing as “ultimate military authority”. Nothing wrong with a president letting his generals know that he is Commander-in-Chief. Plenty wrong with a president who assumes he has “full overall authority”.

    BTW, doesn’t the the phrase “full overall authority” have a sort of modern ring to it? Kind of like “maximum leader” or something, and it doesn’t sound very Lincolnish.

  • blooch
  • blooch

    Is that a Civil War reference?

  • Richard Mullins

    in the race to reply to this.

  • nessa

    Hooker had made statements that winning the war would require a military dictatorship, Lincoln was aware of these statements. I think Lincoln was politely telling the flamboyant, immoral, petulant and hard drinking general that he needed to get off his a$$ and win some battles, Lincoln felt that dealing with Hookers resulting popularity and possible dictatorial designs would be worth the effort, if only he would WIN!

  • fightinsideofme

    I agree that he’s telling Hooker to shut up and win and let Lincoln worry about the dictator stuff. I also agree that he’s being a smartass. Both are examples of him asserting his authority over a general who questions it.
    As for how modern the phrasing sounds, who cares? As someone once said, “I’d guess Vidal didn?t intend [this] as a direct quote, since it isn?t one and he’s not an idiot.”
    The fact of the matter is that Lincoln asserted massive “overall authority”. He suspended habeas corpus, arrested people for speaking against the government, drafted people (at the time a controversial move) and freed 3 million+ slaves, which was considered a legislative issue for 70 eyars before that. So regardless of how you want to parse the quotes, Vidal’s basic point remains correct.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    NT

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    From the article:

    Vidal added: “He loves quoting Lincoln and there?s a great Lincoln quote from a letter he wrote to one of his generals in the South after the Civil War. ?I am President of the United States. I have full overall power and never forget it, because I will exercise it?. That?s what Obama needs – a bit of Lincoln?s chill.?

    Passing aside for the moment whether Vidal is right – he’s not; hence the ‘crack-smoking’ thing – that looks like an attempt at a direct quote, and I’d just like to know when Lincoln actually said it, and who he actually said it to.

  • blooch

    What you say makes sense. I’m not well-versed in the Machiavellian aspects of their correspondence. Either way, this quote has to be really twisted to indict Lincoln as a power- hungry control freak.

  • Achance

    His best known quote as he crossed over into Virginia before Chancellorsville was the Lee’s Army was “… now the legitimate property of the US Army…” Stonewall Jackson had something to say about that.

    Hooker made no secret of his distain for both his fellow general officers and for the civilian authority, including Lincoln. Didn’t last long after his ignominious re-crossing of the Rapidan. Three of my g/gg/grandfathers help encourage him in his decision to re-cross the river.

  • farstar99

    And since Democrats have no sense of humor, they never use them.

    They just make stuff up.

  • aesthete

    accuses conservatives of being “anti-intellectuals”.

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    …to Gore Vidal?

    Nope, just as bogus. If one’s going to quote factual sources as authority, better get them straight and accurate.

    If one just wants to spout off opinions, that’s fine – so long as they’re labeled as personal opinion, not factual.

    Vidal is making a claim to a factual source. Hence the need for him to back up his claim. Otherwise, he deserves at least a yellow card – or a red card if he’s a repeat offender.

  • nessa

    Hooker took command after Burnsides was relieved for the debacle at Fredericksberg. Hooker promptly led the Army of the Potomac to Chancellorsville, one of the worst Union defeats of the war. He remained in command until 28 June ’63, when he requested his own relief over a disagreement with Army HQ over the strength of the garrison at Harpers Ferry. He was assigned to the Army of the Cumberland and performed well at Chattanooga but was overshadowed by Sherman. He later, again, requested his own relief due to his inability to work for a previous subordinate who had, unsurprisingly, been promoted over him. He finished out the war assigned to the challenging area in Ohio.

    His loud mouth had been getting him onto trouble since the Mexican American War, and it is rumored that one of the popular slang terms for ladies who pursue the oldest profession is named after him due to his penchant for keeping a number of the ladies near his headquarters.

    One of my g/g/grandfathers was with Hancock’s Corps at Chancellorsville. The First Minnesota Volunteers performed well, holding their ground and giving some of the routing Union units a place to rally. They were rewarded by being given the lead position in the Corps when moving north after Chancellorsville. Not sucking up the dust of an entire Corps during the march was nice until the evening of 2 July. The Regiment bought General Hancock the time he needed to get the rest of the Corps in position on Cemetery Ridge, charging Wilcox’s Alabama Brigade, a unit well over twice their size, the First Minnesota held the ground for just over 30 minutes until Wilcox withdrew. Of the 262 men in the Regiment, 215 were killed or wounded, that 83% casualty rate stands to this day. The 47 survivors (which included g/g/grandfather, much to my relief) were positioned near the center of the union line, next to another unit that had taken a mauling on the second, the 20th Maine. Their position became known as “The High Water Mark” on the third of July when Pickett’s men breached the Union line. The Minnesotans helped repulse Pickett’s Charge and captured the colors of the 28th Virginia.
    It was suggested in newspapers of the time that Lincoln’s line “the last full measure of devotion” from his Gettysburg Address was a reference to the actions of the First Minnesota.

    Sorry for the threadjack but I couldn’t resist an opportunity to brag on the family history a bit, plus I thought Art might enjoy it.

  • blooch

    Your quote actually backs up Vidal’s “argument” better than Vidal’s contrivance, and at the same time, it reinforces Moe’s assertion that Vidal must be a crackhead if he thinks that Obama needs to get the Generals under his thumb to avoid a military dictatorship during the fast-approaching violent Right-Wing insurrection.

  • ajl_mo

    >You too, John Perry.
    *********
    Anyone know what the editorial policy of NewsMax.com is? I’ve poked around their web site for a bit and couldn’t find it.

    If John Perry simply uploaded it without prior review then there’s no problem with NewsMax pulling it.

    However, if it was reviewed by the site admins then Perry’s most recent column should still be there. If NewsMax decided after the fact they disagreed with it they could simply add a few lines explaining their view of the column. Otherwise it appears kind of cowardly.

    And it’s not like the column has disappeared. The Google cache of the page is still up.