Eugene Robinson is very aggrieved about the new Arizona law:
Legal immigrants will be required to carry papers proving that they have a right to be in the United States.
So aggrieved, in fact, that he’s apparently mixing up his tenses. It is already federal law for legal immigrants / visitors to carry their green cards and/or other relevant immigration information with them at all times. It’s been that way for years. [UPDATE: See also here.]
Mr. Robinson, if you don’t even know the basics of what is legally required and what is not, please keep out of the conversation until you’ve caught up with the rest of us. I ask this as somebody who favors immigration reform: you’re making my life more difficult.
So stop that.
Moe Lane
Crossposted to Moe Lane.
Moe Lane
Dan Spencer
Dan McLaughlin
Jeff Emanuel
Double Tap Moe?
txgho1911 Tuesday, April 27th at 2:55PM EDT (link)Seeing double for a moment.
I may have to rethink my move to TX and instead go to AZ.
Read the law Robinson -verbatim
tngal (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 3:01PM EDT (link)To read the complete exact law (not an analysis) but the law signed by the gov here it is on the arizona legislature website.
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.sb1070_04-19-10_astransmittedtogovernor.doc.htm
These are the first few inches verbatim Its the part most people seemed to be concerned with the most, although you’ll find the sections on employment pretty interesting as well as what happens if you transport or harbor. What is not to like in this bill?
“Prohibits law enforcement officials and law enforcement agencies of this state or counties, municipalities and political subdivisions from restricting or limiting the enforcement of the federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.
· Requires officials and agencies to reasonably attempt to determine the immigration status of a person involved in a lawful contact where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.
· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government.
· Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.
· Specifies that a person is presumed to be lawfully present if the person provides any of the following:
Ø A valid Arizona driver license.
Ø A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
Ø A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
Ø A valid federal, state or local government issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance.”
This is just next step
spaceman_spiff Tuesday, April 27th at 3:25PM EDT (link)Just some of the laws we have enacted here in Arizona:
2000
Prop 203 – Requires all public school instruction to be given in the English language, except students designated as “English Learners” who would be placed in an intensive English immersion program.
2004
Prop 200 – Requires that voters be able to produce both identification and proof of citizenship prior to being allowed to vote in any election. The same requirements were also enacted for any person prior to receiving any state or locally funded benefits.
2006
Prop 100 – Proposed amendment to the constitution to deny bail to persons charged with serious felonies who are in the US illegally.
Prop 102 – Proposed amendment to the constitution to deny the award of punitive damages in civil court cases to persons who are in the US illegally
Prop 102 – Proposed amendment to the constitution to declare English the official language of the state.
Prop 300 – Referendum on a proposal to require citizenship for eligibility for various subsidized services such as in-state tuition and financial assistance.
However, it is difficult get the problem under control when the Feds don’t do their job.
spiff, you hit the nail on the head
tngal (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 4:08PM EDT (link)“it is difficult get the problem under control when the Feds don’t do their job.”
And that is what has made illegal immigration the clustermuffin it is today. Many states have laws on the books on how to deal with illegals. This new one fron Arizona actually involves some of its older laws just more defined. Some new things have been added but they strengthened some of the older ones in it
Now if ICE will start enforcing not just Arizona’s laws but other states’ as well, the problem would be diminished. Every once in a while ICE gets a headline on a big bust involving multiple illegals, but we need help with the iindividuals caught by locals.
Judging by the props coming up, looks like your governor is going to have carpel tunnel from signing so many new laws. ( do suspect most will pass)
Tngal - I can understand and accept some of what
kcdude (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 6:17PM EDT (link)you wrote about ICE, but please be careful of the broad brush. Many ICE agents / offices can and do work very hard to enforce the law. It is not as simple as saying ICE needs to enforce the law. In my tenure, there were times that it would have been very helpful if we had enough detention space available to hold the aliens who were being processed for removal It takes a large number of agents to process aliens to determine alienage. At times, because of personnel shortages, there were instances that I had to make a decision concerning whether to pull agents from a human trafficking case surveillance to work a (big bust). Be assured there was never an occasion that we would not place a detainer on an illegal alien who had been arrested.
I could take days to discuss the difficulty of making a decision about assigning agents to process a noncriminal alien police encounter call versus assigning agents to
work criminal case development / proof of life issues regarding loads of illegal aliens kidnapped by one group of smugglers from another group of smugglers or
Child pornography case development or
Visa Overstay investigations (think 9/11 perpetrators) or
an multiple international drug smuggling (border) investigations or
an international money laundering investigation or
a Customs fraud investigation or
multiple human trafficking investigations or
multiple alien smuggling investigations or
multiple identity theft investigations and
the list goes on and on.
My point is that I found there were only so many agents to do the job 24x7x365 and there were times that I had to make decisions that would allow my agents to work toward placing criminals in jail (to be followed by deportation based on an alienage determination)
I have no beef with the AZ law. The application of the law may be an issue. If the purpose of a police encounter is “driving while brown” or “working while brown” or “walking while brown” there is a real problem.
I am no bleeding heart. I agree with and support border security and strong enforcement. I believe if we, as a country, have a WILL to make it happen we could compel every illegal alien to leave the U.S. and then be welcomed back upon their return after they were fully identified and documented. It is a matter of will and it involves cooperation between the Executive and Congressional branches of the Fed.
kc dude...
tngal (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 7:41PM EDT (link)please don’t think I’m painting with a broad brush ICE or any Fedeagent. My husband is retired from the local police department. My father was a deputy then cop then deputy again (this after 24 yrs in military.) Currently hubby is over the criminal justice department at an accredited college and instructing– – perhaps your next agent. (heh.)
We still have friends who work for federal enforcement agencies. When we get together there is still much shop talk. Trust me when I understand the difficulty of low manpower and paperwork. I blame this and other administrations which either did not fund the appropriate agencies properly or encourage agencies to direct their focus elsewhere.
You can also appreciate how difficult it can be for local enforcement to p/u someone who is identified as illegal through a routine stop or checkpoint and the illegal is put in lockup only to be turned out and picked up again, maybe multiple times, before a more serious offense occurs. Just as your department is strained with little staff, local depts are strained with lack of staff and lack of space.
I work for several local attorneys now serving process, investigations, and locates. On more than one occassion I’ve served on Hispanic individuals. Many were not illegal. However, also more than once I’ve gone to addresses which were small ( mobile homes and apts) and find more than a dozen people living there. The minute I knock one comes to the door and five crawl out a back window. I did not run to authorities screaming “illegals”, because it would do no good.
Kcdude, I swear, I’m not dumping on your agency or your men. On the contrary, I empathize more than you’ll know.
We're Good - I was just making a point
kcdude (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 10:52PM EDT (link)I had a real stake for a few years of my life as a agent. I’m retired now so I stay concerned from a citizen standpoint. As it happens, my brother and I were talking about the AZ law last night. It bothers me when –
1 folks – some from here – who think that because someone is not carrying the green card (assume they were issued one) that they will be removed. In 999 out of 1000 cases it will never even get to a judge. lf it does, they will not be removed.
2 I really tried to have my agents focus on criminal aliens. I wanted to be sure that anyone here illegally, who violated an additional US or state law, would be removed.
3 The AZ law might have a good purpose from an ICE standpoint. The aliens who is arrested under state law can be taken into custody and a detainer should be placed by ICE on that alien. It may fill up a local jail or two but they will be TOT’d ICE instead of put back out on the street.
4. The Executive Branch and Congress could fix this if they had the will. We do not need amnesty. It would not be without some effort and cost on the part of the alien who wanted to make himself or herself legal but it could be done. It would also involve stiff penalties for the employer who knowingly fires the employee or sub.
Kc, I will sleep well
tngal (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 11:13PM EDT (link)knowing w’re good. Keep your back to the wall and your eyes on the door my friend.
Seventy percent
mustango (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 3:46PM EDT (link)Even if you swallowed the lies being spread about this law, you’d still have to ask yourself how bad Federal neglect of the borders has to have gotten to drive a state to such overhelming support for such “draconian” measures.
I’m still stunned that the normally level-headed (to the point of being insufferable about it) Joe Scarborough would go off all Joe McCarthy on this law. “Stay calm and carry on”? Not today!
“I just miss — I miss being anonymous.” — Barack Obama
I fully sympathize, Mr. President. I miss you being anonymous too.
So Eugene Robinson wants to whine...
cump Tuesday, April 27th at 3:50PM EDT (link)I did a quick call to my Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles and guess what, as one who was born in the US, I must carry at all times my state ID (Drivers License) in order to prove legal residency, that I completed a basic drivers course, and coincidentally that I supported state road construction projects by paying my associated FEES.
If I were to stop at the grocery store and write a check, guess what…I’m not buying any life sustaining nutrients without a state issued ID Card. Read Drivers License.
If I were to go inside my local bank and use a real life bank teller (instead of the ATM), I can’t do anything without showing my state issued identification.
When I visit certain industries, guess what it takes to overcome the visitor management system…yep, my state issued ID.
When I visit foreign countries I am asked by the US Dept. of State to carry with me at all times my passport (I called and asked). This to alleviate any questions of citizenry if I were to be asked for it by a law enforcement officer.
So, if Eugene Robinson is attempting to elicit any sympathy from me, a US CITIZEN and former US NAVY VET he is sadly disappointed. You see, I was born here and I live here and “I” have to “carry papers” everyday of my life already!
Intellectually dishonest
antisocial (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 3:53PM EDT (link)There were 2 easy options:
1>Look at a green card.
2>Go to USCIS.gov. Look at Green Card (Permanent Residence) heading bang in the center of the page. Click on “After a Green Card is Granted” link.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=f1903a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f1903a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD
Here are first 2 lines:
“A green card is issued to all permanent residents as proof that they are authorized to live and work in the United States. If you are a permanent resident age 18 or older, you are required to have a valid green card in your possession at all times.”
Sorry Eugene – We can’t fix STUPID.
Obama Doctrine – Boot On The Throat
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What is to be done?
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No. You can’t – Moe Lane
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The Emperor has no clothes!!!
Eugene never let a few facts get in the way of one of his mediocre columns.
Flagstaff (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 4:43PM EDT (link)Research? Who needs it? We already have our opinion in place.
Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
RAAAAACIST!!!1!1
Adjoran (Diary) Wednesday, April 28th at 2:55AM EDT (link)Just because Eugene Robinson only has a column because of the “diversity policy” doesn’t mean it isn’t RAAAAACIST!!!1!1 to mention his complete lack of qualifications for it.
Why must you deprive the poor ignorant black man of a job? What would Robinson do for a living? He has no skills in other areas with strong “diversity policies” – how should he pay his bills? Deal crack?
Show some tolerance, and treat his column like every other sane and compassionate reader does – just skip it.
I read maybe two of his columns, years ago. Since then I’ve skipped them all, and I must say it has worked out well for everyone. Robinson gets to keep his easy paycheck coming, I don’t lose the time or brain cells I’d waste on his drivel, and WaPo circulation and revenue continues to decline.
Everybody wins!
Eugene is a member of the Washington Post Writers Grope.
Flagstaff (Diary) Wednesday, April 28th at 7:36PM EDT (link)They grope daily for a cogent thought or an insight into almost anything. I exempt George Will.
Kathleen Parker is my favorite. It isn’t clear to me how she ever got herself hired in the first place. She’d have difficulty getting attention as a blogger. We have better and more entertaining wordsmiths in our local weekly giveaway.
Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
The lawless hate enforcement of the law...
anotherindyfilmguy (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 6:10PM EDT (link)and this makes it even more obvious that the “O” doesn’t have the best interests of the US in mind…
Razz Etc!
“Best Poker book written ever!!!” – Author’s unbiased opinion…
Brit Hume just made similar points
Flagstaff (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 7:46PM EDT (link)on the Fox “Special Report.” He gently ridiculed the NYT’s legal writer by saying the fuss “has little to do with ‘breathing in Arizona’ and a lot to do with hyperventilating in Washington.”
Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
Maybe Mexico would be happy if we adopted their policies
GregInFla (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 9:02PM EDT (link)Certainly that would be seem as reasonable, right? They would applaud such reforms, I am sure. See Human Events.
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Think about it.
– The sign outside the courthouse said no signs allowed. So I took it down.
– Atlas Shrugged is now on the non-fiction aisle at Amazon.
This mutton-head Robinson would be right at home on MSNBC
RedBeard Wednesday, April 28th at 9:01AM EDT (link)There was a breathless MSNBC revelation that stated, on screen: “Law Makes it a Crime to be Illegal Immigrant.”
Laugh or cry? Your choice. Idiots abound.
Standard-bearer for grouchy curmudgeonry since, oh, 1975 or so.
Robinson would never get a job at MSNBC.
mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, April 28th at 9:12AM EDT (link)He’s not the right color.
I had the pleasure(?)
soljerblue Wednesday, April 28th at 12:02PM EDT (link)of hearing Mr. Robinson speak to a function I attended a few years back, and came away convinced the man is dumber than a box of rocks. I’ve seen nothing from him since that suggests his brains operate any higher than his sternum, or that he writes for anyone smarter than he is. A perfect example of a journalistic quota system gone horribly awry.
Racial Profiling
superamerican (Diary) Wednesday, April 28th at 2:33PM EDT (link)Dang police, they’re profiling me. Just because I look like an English Illegal Immigrant, she sirened me over, walked up and asked for my papers. I gave her my driver’s license and told her I was not an illegal. But she gave me a ticket anyway…Dang her. (And for 95 in a 45…Racial Profiling obviously!)
http://www.periodictablet.com
Superamerican