The California budget slate goes down

drothgery

After some reflection, I ended up going with McClintock’s recommendation and voting for the shell games and against everything else. We have to do something about all the required-by-initiative spending and special funds in the CA budget, and authorizing raiding two of the more useless would have been a step in the right direction.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

First you cut up the credit cards, then you get your budget in order, then you go get new credit once you’re disciplined.

The Democrats want the new credit first.

johnt

No, Mrs Schwarzenegger will tell. At this moment poor Arnold is already catching hell and being given his marching orders.

You will see more abject begging for this mysterious thing “federal dollars”, in due course other states will surrender the shreds of their federalist rights, California Democrats will close hospitals and assault any other proper government services, the teachers union and other civil service slugs will remain inviolate,[& probably get raises], & somehow the specters of racism and hate will enter the picture, the better to inform people what side to be on.

When the dust settles California will be gift wrapped and handed over to the UAW, or maybe David Axelrod will be named Protector & Custodian of the state.
Little liberals everywhere will call for more government services, America will continue to die.

http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

1A and 1B were the big ticket items – and these were opposed by an odd coaltion of left and right against the political insiders (like the CTA) who hoped to sneak this throught the middle.

But the left opposed these primarily because of the spending cap, because even a weak cap would limit future government spending and might have become a model for stronger caps. So they wanted to make sure the government didn’t have new restrictions on spending.

So I think the left does plan to use your first scenario (burning down the state and blaming Republicans) to pave the way for an initiative to repeal the 2/3rds budget vote requirement, which would leave the governor’s line item veto as the only constraint on a runaway legislature – a rather thin reed indeed/

The “illegal” majority tax increase is probably a no-lose proposition; if the courts look the other way, then the left has made their end run around Republicans; if the courts strike it down, this will just prolong the “crisis” whicih has been such a successful strategy in Washington to sneak in radical change.

In other words, the left will take the Obama playbook and use a “crisis” as an opportunity to push the state over the left cliff.

CTA was a big loser, but interestingly a number of the local union chapters broke ranks and sided with the left opponents in recommending a no vote. (including some who took the self-defeating position of opposing 1A and supporting 1B). It will be interesting to see how the grass-root leftist radicals vs. the insider CTA leadership conflict will play out. Definitely a mirror analogy to what the Republican part is facing today, as Erick has posted on many time – grassroot conservatives vs. insider, power-clinging leaders.

The other public service unions emerged unscathed or strengthened; until we can cut off their money supply to spike their power, they will continue to dominate the legislature and financial solvency will remain impossible.

LoveThatConstitution

Would do well to watch this video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2921725081064498751&q=Milton+Friedman+Free+to+choose+duration%3Along&total=15&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

rbdwiggins

President Obama can not afford the backlash and loss of political capital that is certain to ensue following California’s failure.

Progressive fiscal policy has failed in California. The left, and President Obama in particular, will do everything within their power to shift the blame elsewhere.

California is simply “too big to fail.”

When all is said and done, the American taxpayer will pay for Sacramento’s largess.

And then, it’s back to business as usual… Heap tons of guilt on Californians until they are shamed into paying more taxes.

Jingles

You know my political ideology. I, and other liberals and Democrats, opposed all of the measures, but for different reasons than you and other conservatives and Republicans. I don’t think anyone “won” yesterday: the right revolted against the taxes and shell games, and the left revolted against the program cuts and fund diversions.

So what’s the solution? I’m open to suggestions, thinking out of the box and all that.

Republicans in the leg. don’t have the votes to do anything substantial, and the Democrats don’t have the votes to pass tax increases.

California wants to both retain services and keep taxes low. So what can be done now?

Like I said, I want an honest, realistic conversation about the future of the state. And I promise that I won’t name call or engage in ad hominem attacks.

PS: I’m attending a conference in a few minutes, so I won’t be able to check responses for a few hours. But I will check them.

antisocial

Not New Yorkers. Why? Because we are also in line with a pretty big bowl…..

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

The Governator needs to STOP listening to (and letting the State actually be run by) his wife (a Kennedy more or less, Shriver)…. It is time for him to put his House in order (no, that is not a Male chauvinist comment), meaning the Sacramento Capitol. He was elected on a “Be Responsible” message and when he couldn’t get it over night, rather than channeling Ronald Reagan and either SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT or GO TO THE PEOPLE he pulled a Arlen disreSpecter and sided with the Democrats (and some other wimpy Republicans) in going for the easy out and try to force through Tax Increases by Ballot initiative via EXTORTION RHETORIC

from yesterday

EXTORTION, pure and simple – and it is failing….

The Governator greatly upset me (over many things many times, but really really so this time) with his sounding like Democrats [I expect these extortion tactics from them, we're getting it here in MI with Gran(munist)holm] and going on about how Police, Fire, Garbage service, School days shortened, etc?. will all have to be cut ?. it is ALL BS in an attempt to EXTORT Tax increases from the citizens and ward off actual and real Fiscally-responsible Cuts/Reductions in so many wasteful Govt agencies?..

As an aside, and in using the same tactics to avoid legislation against Credit Card rule regulation changes, Banks are THREATENING (Extortion tactics) to raise the Annual Fees, Cut peoples lines of Credit, saying you won?t get your free toaster, no more Frequent Flyer Miles programs, and on and on and on, in order to forestall any crackdown on their pathetic APR games they play!!! This is NOT Government spending programs, so even if they do raise some fees not capped by new regulations and drop some incentive programs?. THEY WILL GO BACK LATER?.. It?s called competition?.. They will again fight each other for your business, don?t be fooled by this short term changes they will impose to EXTORT your support for their right to rip-off your fellow citizens in APR, and other, fine print! They can and DO make money behind the transactions in fees charged to Merchants for equipment and in per transaction hold-back.

Back to the main point? Governator, you should be ashamed of yourself. This was/is a GREAT OPPORTUNITY for you to DECLARE VICTORY FOR YOUR ORIGINAL DAYS AS GOVERNOR AND WANTING CUTS!!!!! The citizens are speaking and saying you must make cuts?. If you would have held the line on the Conservative ideals, you would have had the moral high-ground, but you pissed it away by taking the EXTORTION low-road and sounding like your wife? er?. Democrats?..

When the Taxes are voted down? you have all the proof you need that citizens in even the most Liberal CA – DEMAND CUTS AND A SENSIBLE BUDGET – FOR A CHANGE!!!!!!

The Politico formerly known as “The Governator” (now “The Extortionator” or “The Taxinator”), as I pointed out, could have reclaimed his morally high Conservative ground of whence he ran, but he failed to do that when he stooped to Democrat Extortion rhetoric. Will he now “Carpe diem” and declare he “Gets It” and has heard the voice of the people loud and clear and that he will stand by them now that they had reaffirmed his original plans for CA to demand a “reasonable budget” — A speech is in order, and it is NOT for DC graveling to Obama… It is on the Capitol steps to the people of CA — “If you will continue to let your voice be heard, I will again push for the Responsible approach – but I will need your help against those that continue to resist doing that ‘responsible thing’ – call your Representatives………” … you get the idea.

Somehow, I doubt it – I think he prefers getting flack from voters and legislators rather than his Ultra-Liberal Spouse. Unless you people in CA flood his office with Calls, Faxes, Emails, or show up in person to VOICE WHAT HE MUST DO…. Perhaps a DAILY TEApeat in Sacramento? No matter how small they are, but a persistent and constant presence as a “show of support” for those who take up the cause and a constant reminder for those who do not… If you start small, several more may join you and the crowds grow on a daily basis… Show you are willing to voice your opinion of protest on more than just ONE day of voting!!!!!

Thomas_Hauber

Until someone stands up to the state unions and their exorbitant benefits, nothing will be fixed.

Oh and as a side note, Arnold vetoed the last tax bill the state legislature tried to pass on a majority only vote. It seems being legal is the only backbone he has left.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Tell the union fatcats to take fewer vacations.

But we all know the Democrats rely on union political activity, so we all know not one Democrat in Sacramento has the will to do that.

Your party in Sacramento is corrupt to the bone. DO something about it.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

You’ve had power there as long as we did in Washington, and longer when you consider we lost the Senate for Bush’s first two years.

You guys were all breathless about K street, but you don’t do a thing about Sacramento.

Prove your principles and fight the unions.

antisocial

The biggest blackmail is that the services (usually essential services) will go if taxes are not increased. Why can’t useless programs be done away with?

Improve school system. Restore accountability. Eliminate waste. This accounts for about 40% of California budget.
Address healthcare fraud. Healthcare accounts for abt 30% of state expenses.
Deport illegal aliens from CA jails. You pay approx 50,000 anually per prisoner.
Stop providing services to Illegal immigrants.
Eliminate overlapping work within agencies. Better get rid of such agencies.
Get rid of excessive government employees. Bring down the bloated salaries in line with national average.
Reform unemployment benefits and eliminate fraud.

http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

…one from the left and one from the right. Obviously there is no easy solution given the current gridlock in the legislature.

But one proposal I would offer as a possible source of agreement between left and right is the need to break the stranglehold of the public employee unions over the legislature. It is clear that at the state and local level, the wages, benefits, and especially pension packages are a principal driver for the state bankruptcy and impending local meltdowns – and that we will not be able to begin to restore solvency until these packages are definitievely dealt with.

True, unions have been a primary supporter of the Democratic party, but I think we could distinguish between public employee unions and private sector unions (which have a much longer history). I at this moment am not advocating to touch the private sector union relationship – which is the historical ground on which the union movement was founded. That longstanding dispute between left and right I would suspend for the present crisis – and besides private sector union contracts are only tangentially relevant to the state budget crisis.

On the other hand, public employee unions are “double dipping”. First, they have the protections of a civil service union which insulates them from private sector forces – and their employer as the state also is insulated from market forces regarding profitablity, because unlike the private sector, the government can confiscate or commandeer revenues to fill-in deficits. Which means the constraint on government employess practices is political, not economics.

On top of that, these employees also are unionized, which means they have a second level of job protections and work conditions as well as being able to strike and shut down major government servicies – giving them enormous bargaining power.

On top of that, of course, is the indirect recycling of public funds via union dues into political campaigns, which means that the unions are also exerting control over their employers, meaning that there is no adversarial relationship – which is what unions are all about vs. management. Management and unions are on the same side, mutual backscratching at taxpayer expense.

That is, we have a union that also controls management, which management is not subject to market forces but only elections and which can also compel its customers (citizens) to pay for the contract without regard to profitability.

This incestuous relationship needs to be broken up – even under the basic principles of trade unionism.

Anyway, this to me seems to be the only way to restore sanity. Almost every other measure will provoke battles over a shrinking pie (as public employees continue to increase their cut of the pie even in these economic times.

There’s a disconnect between what’s happening in the private sector and what’s happening in the public sector, and that in my mind is the first target for reform.

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

You said “Liberals opposed for other reasons…..” went on to say “think out of the box….”

[that was what "you" said, now I'll respond to LIBERALS in general, not you specifically ... biting my tongue, reigning in my fingers, to try and remain respect when I, admittedly, want to tee-off]

Well, for all the Liberals out in CA how about you ACTUALLY do think out of “Your Box” and form your own 501-c-3 non-profit organizations to raise funds so you can continue to pay for the Health Care, incarceration [since you won't turn them over to ICE for deportation, etc, of ILLEGAL Aliens.... FOR STARTERS!

Then all the Lib's can ban together and can pick whatever the next (but we care, and actually show you care by DOING SOMETHING YOURSELF) Cause-du-jour and fund that and actually do the work required to accomplish it..... NO, of course, it will NEVER ever happen, because Liberals only want to PRETEND to care and hand over things to the Power of the State (figurative and literal, in this sense) and have money EXTORTED BY THREAT OF FORCE OF GOVERNMENT funds from everyone, rather than just the Liberals that insist it must be funded, and pass off the efforts to Government workers who also don't care but just protect their jobs.

Hopefully, the Liberals will be forced to step up and do these things because the CA Budget will finally have to CUT the excess out and focus on the actual needs of its LEGAL Residents... like Police, Fire, etc..... but those, of course, are always the first things THREATENED (EXTORTION) to be cut while Funds to help Hollywood Elites make their anti-US films, to protect Private beaches that those "Rich" folk Liberals supposedly hate so much [not so much when they are fellow Liberals] could/should take care of themselves, Grants and Projects that could be “suspended” for now an reinstated later if/when things get better in CA, how about temporarily delaying some of the over-bearing business restrictions that have companies leaving CA in droves to help KEEP some of the Tax base, etc… etc…. etc….. etc……

The only BOX that exists, is the one Liberals impose on Sacramento (true of any Liberal controlled Govt. entity) that NO CUTS EVER TO ANYTHING…. Constant growth!!!! Constant Waste….. etc…..

antisocial

Thousands of millionaires are fleeing California. STOP the bleeding.

One more….

Get off the ECO Train…

drothgery

They prefer a state legislature gerrymandered to give them a huge majority, but keep enough of us around that they can’t pass tax increases due to the supermajority rule. They like the supermajority rule because it means they can’t actually raise taxes, but can blame us when the budget isn’t balanced (because we kept them from raising taxes). And they like huge portions of the budget automatically tied up due to initiative-mandated spending, because that means there can’t be any kind of real debate on spending priorities.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Make the state friendly to economic growth. Cut gas taxes, cut regulation, cut totalitarian environmental restrictions, and make it possible to do business and hire people in this state.

You have to have economic activity to skim taxes off the top.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

To discuss the issues of the Productive vs non-Productive sectors of the Economy, as it is the same throughout the World (the world of Socialist policies like Democrats insist upon)….

For those living under a rock and may not know: Daniel Hannan (British MEP) – see mbecker’s: What the Leader of the Republican Party should sound like! [includes video]

johnt

Is this a mystery? If you have spent to much unto the very lap of disaster, a good place to start in the what-to-do department is to reduce what got the state into trouble over the years in the first place.

A false dilemma is posed when cutting programs is regarded as a no go and there is a limit to what can be done with tax increases, which in any case is only business as usual and goes farther down the road of financial spending and ruin.

Don’t bite your tongue but what has to be, should be, done is major and sustained cuts in services and benefits, and woe to the sainted state civil service. A revolutionary suggestion might be for the legislature, both parties, to show and act upon leadership, mighty though as the howls of trough feeders will resonate in their tender ears.

If you have taken the wrong direction it ought not to be difficult to grasp you should change, to reverse the course. Anything else is standard bull—- and will lead to California being a federal supplicant, in effect a colony existing to follow Washington’s orders. Which direction we seem to be herded towards with increasing rapidity under the faultless direction of the pragmatic[?] Obama.

Return to Revolution

because it makes a lot of sense in the context of CA voters. I keep hearing that this is a tax and spending revolt just like the tea parties and just like the proposition that got shot down in the 70′s. But CA was much more conservative in the 70′s than it is now. It is currently such a deep shade of blue that I can’t believe its as simple as a tax revolt and thus an acknowledgment of the failure of liberal policy.

Jingles

I appreciate the seriousness of your response. There are many Democrats who chafe at our state party. Torres was a fool. Perata was corrupt. Some of us are trying, but as with your party, our establishment is entrenched. Maybe Burton will be better, but I doubt it. Stienberg is a very slight improvemtn.

From a union perspective, I’d be willing to start the discussion with the reform of the Prison Guard Union, which is woefully out of control. I’d also like to see leg. staffing cuts.

Jingles

1) How do you restore accountability? Do you see it as a testing issue, or soemthign else? And what waste can be cut from the school budget?

2) What type of health care fraud specifically?

3) I’m all for removing Illegal Immigrants from the prison system, as well as reforming our prison system. See my comment above regarding the Prison Gaurd Union.

4) Eliminating services to Illegal Immigrants is tricky. If we’re talking education, I’d rather not have to deputize teachers. If we’re talking Health Services, I’d rather not have people sick, or have to deputize nurses.

5) I fully agree with eliminating overlapping services and departments, as well as unnessary government employees.

6) I fully agree with this too

Martin Knight

… I imagine a lot of change is gonna come.

… the indirect recycling of public funds via union dues into political campaigns …

One thing we’ve all noticed is that the Democrats’ “solutions” never work, and worse, they tend to have enormous negative unintended consequences devastating to those they’re supposed to help. The horrible state of the typical inner city in America, 99.9% of the time exclusively represented by Democrats for the past four decades is only just one example.

So after all this time, why continue supporting policies that are failures, that take away resources that could be used to support programs that do? Simple. Public sector unionism.

Right now, most of the Democrats’ funding is as a result of a massive kickback scheme. The enlarge government, force government employees to join unions, compel them to pony up dues from the hard-earned (or not so hard-earned) wages, which are then channeled into Democrats’ campaign coffers.

And on the story goes.

Jingles

I generally agree with this idea. Public service employee unions are a drag on the budget, but I wonder how much savings can realistically be realized. A study should be conducted.

Jingles

What programs belong on the block? Some services are essential, and some are just nice to have. But it would be difficult to find a, say 60-70% consensus on what could be cut and what should be saved. On the other hand, programs and services will get cut, and some undeserving people will suffer.

peg_c

in analyzing and subduing the jubilation over the CA results. He said Obama (meaning us beleaguered U.S. taxpayers) will be bailing out CA first and NY second. I was in CA for 30 years and am now in NY. (Man do I have a track record or what.) CA and NY both deserve to go bankrupt. Morally and fiscally, both have been utterly bankrupt for decades.

At what point do bailouts just become impossible, taxes hit 90% for everyone, and we all go Galt? Because this is literally insane. Those of us with kids and grandkids are sick at heart at what we see them being saddled with – nevermind our own futures. We need revolution and we need it now. Too bad we have only cowards and no leaders.

Just heard Hannan on Hannity. He’s so superior to our political dregs.

JadedByPolitics

became deserving? what exactly have they done to reap a reward at the expense of another? this is the problem with governments both federally and locally they are propping up people who have done nothing! If they are poor they need to pick themselves up dust themselves off and get to work and there are plenty of charities to help them to do just that! This thought pattern that the government is the daddy is killing us all! screw the common good it’s time to man up and make it in the world or get the hell out of the way!

California and many states are out of control! they have to many government workers and too many dependent humans on their rolls….start there! get rid of 1/2 the government workers because we all know 2 are doing the job of 1 in every government job! the poor ought to be given an hand up and then kicked out of the nest to fly on their own! there is no reason EVER to layoff police, firefighters…those are ALWAYS needed! but they are always thrown out to scare the citizens!

Teacher…hell yeah gut them too….start with all the english a second language teachers and start teaching ENGLISH ONLY…get rid of every social program teacher and keep all the one’s that teach reading, writing and arithmetic! they will save billions with my suggestions BUT THEY WON’T DO IT!

Vegas_Rick

to deny “benefits” to illegals.

You ask for proof of eligibility and send them packing if they don’t have. This is for non-emergency care of course.

You might try getting rid of the sanctuary cities in your state. Makes sure your mayors get the message that you expect local law enforcement to assist ICE in removing these people.

http://brockwayfamily.spaces.live.com/ Erick Brockway

Statements he made today saying Sacramento heard us loud and clear: we want them to leave us alone.
No not exactly Arnold. If we wanted to be left alone we wouldn’t have campaigned against your Prop mess. We wouldn’t have voted at all.
What we want Arnold is for you idiots in Sacramento to quit caving to every union demend and trick to get more dues money from its members.
We’ll have to educate the electorate about the stupid bond measures they keep voting for that lock the state into spending that we’ll ever have the money to cover.
Real cuts Arnold not decreases in increase.

Tbone

Why do you think he is so smart now?

johnt

and your absolutely blank response. Jingles,’ in my mind” is not the problem. First, I did not say that “programs belong on the block”, but, now struggle with this, that is not to say spending on some or all programs can’t be reduced. I realize that for you this idea is a herculean task not to be essayed.
Human thought among adults, that excludes liberals like your self, can distinguish between programs, interest groups, and other interested parties in terms of their importance, contributions, and justified needs. Again, too much for you to figure out.

Consensus? Politics, and corrupt leftism and vote bribing as usual Jingles? Cowardice, and Washington to the rescue? Politics as usual while a state dies in all but name?

“Some undeserving people will suffer”? You’re breaking my heart, but what about the undeserving people who have profited and grown fat in the spending spree known as California. I’m trusting on you to help those people, unless you doubt that altruism is a personal virtue rather then a government lie.

Tough decisions Jingles, a time not for children,morons, or liberals. But potentially a great time for the deluded who adore centralized power and cannot give up their moral crutch.
Regards,
Jangles

rbdwiggins

Happened about the same time President Obama groveled through Europe on his grand apology tour.

antisocial

Education:
Make the teacher pay merit-based. Slash salaries. Fire Bad teachers.
Increase class size
Increase fee for community colleges. e.g. 180 (vs. 80) / year is not going to hurt anybody who is utilizing the services. Ideally these institutions should be able to pay for themselves.
———————————–
Healthcare:
Eliminate all/most state health programs.
Ensure maintenance services are provided to legal immigrants/citizens. Make them prove they are CA taxpayers and long time residents.

We must get out of the mentality of making everything(healthcare/food/work/education) a right. People need to earn to meet their needs. I spend 12,000 bucks for healthcare for my family(generally healthy). Why should somebody get it for free? I believe a lot of that goes to offset free programs. I work 16-18 hours to earn my money. Why should a portion of my money go to slackers or supposedly unfortunate people?

Money doesn’t grow on trees. While it is “nice” to be able to provide everything to everybody, that’s not possible without robbing/raiding the most productive earners.

Also I don’t get the tricky thing. Just deny services. If somebody sneaks in illegally they don’t deserve our support. Here we are forced to support them just so that pols can feel nice and give lectures about humanity all the while stealing our money to service their goals.

From my earlier comment….

CUT Taxes…
Thousands of millionaires are fleeing California. STOP the bleeding.

One more?.
Get off the ECO Train?

IJB

The Dems play this double-game where they pass tax hikes they know won’t be enacted because their butts will be saved by CA GOP state legislators.

It’s time to make the Dem politicians and the Leftie CA voters put up or shut up – make ‘em do budgeting by majority vote, and let’s see what they come up with.

And then let’s see how the voters in CA respond to that.

This state will *never* be reformed until the buck is finally made to stop once and for all with the Dems who control this state.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

It doesn’t end well.

CSUFBomb

The greatest fear of California’s failed legislature is that they will make deep cuts and no one will notice. They’ve doubled the size of the state government and it’s actually delivering less than it did 10 years ago . . . they have nothing to show for their bureaucratic shopping spree.

mbecker908

There isn’t a Democrat in the State of California who isn’t a fool. And, a damned fool at that.

I’m just shocked that you would pick on the prison guards and give the CTA a pass. And then there’s the indian tribes.

Frankly, the best hope you’ve got is that San Andreas gives up the big one and the whole damn state slides into the Pacific.

IJB

…With a viable conservative region in the interior, and still fairly numerous suburban areas. I think comparing it to MA, or even NY, is comparing apples and oranges.

Look, the fact is, Neil, those suburbs like the Silicon Valley are not going to magically ‘flip’ back to the GOP on their own. Those people need to *feel* the consequences of the economic policies that *they* support.

Then, and only then, might those types of voters finally get “religion” about economic conservatism.

The fact is, nothing else has worked – might as well expose them, but good! to the policies they claim they support.

IJB

CA has *Initiative* (which you strangely oppose), whereas MA for all intents and purposes does not.

That completely insulates the MA Legislature from any negative repercussions to their policies (and explains why, in desperation, even the Leftie MA voters turn so often to Republican Governors).

It is an unspoken truth that if MA had Initiative, the tyrannical imposition of so-called “gay marriage” would have been overturned by the voters of MA. (Their MA Legislature denied them even the chance to try.)

CA, by contrast, has a viable mechanism for the people to *rebel* against the failed policies of the Legislature.

So let’s remove the “safety” and see what happens when the buck in CA stops with the Lefties in the Legislature.

nod90

…because we have been able to stop the state government from sending taxes through the roof. As long as the supermajority requirements stay in place, we have a fair chance of being able to grow our way out of trouble. That’s why California’s budget problems are a little less serious than people think.

If you raise taxes and destroy the economy, then CA will be in far worse trouble. Once taxes go up and government grows, you will never be able to shrink them back down again. The bottom line here is that Republicans do NOT have a good track record of shrinking government, despite all the talk.

nod90

….and forget about high speed trains. We ought to repeal every bond measure which passed in the past 20 years and use any remaining money for the general fund.

We should look at modest cuts to firefighters and police, in order to send a message to those unions that their jobs may disappear if they push their wage demands to far.

We should generally try to keep front line employees who deliver services while eliminating people who spend their time sitting in meetings and doing paperwork. Keep the classroom teachers and fire the administration. Give schools a pass if they don’t produce all the paperwork they should.

Jingles

I think that the main issues that have been raised here have to do with:

1) public service employee unions, specifically the CTA
2) services exploited by Illegal immigrants
3) Taxes
4) Environmental and Regulation issues

I don’t necessarily agree with all of the proposed solutions, I appreciate the general concept of discussion as a path to reform and compromise.

I want to save my state. I imagine that those of you who live in California do to. Both the left and the right need to do this together.

Jingles

There are fools and good folks on both sides of the aisle. At least we can agree on the former, anyway.

As for picking on prison guards, California spends twice as much as the national average on housing prisoners than the national average. Because of overtime rules, they are the most highly paid state employees. I’m not suggesting that their salaries should be slashed, as it is a very difficuly job, but they really game the system. The CTA certainly has its share of issues as well, and is ripe for reform. I’d like to see bad teachers removed, but not at the expense of punishing good teachers.

Jingles

Merit pay is a good idea on paper, but my issue is how do you determine what constitutes merit? If we’re talking high-stakes testing, it creates incentive for teachers to flee poor-income schools for high-income ones, leaving the poor schools in the lurch. There needs to be a way to keep talented teachers in low income schools, but there also needs to be accountability, as well as realistic measures to remove bad teachers.

I have to disagree with increasing class sizes, but that is likely inevitable.

Raising Community College fees will have to happen, and probably public university fees as well. This will likely have the effect of keeping poorer students from attending college, which would lead to economic disadvantages for the state down the road. A sad situation all around, but inevitable.

Aaron Gardner

Execute the 600+ criminals on death row, which account for $137 Million Annually.

Just a thought.

Jingles

It’d be cheaper to just commute them to life sentences w/o parole, per the link.

Karina

That will help California as well as our whole country. They have destroyed more of our “civil liberties” than practically any other entity. And all paid for by you and me.

I agree with these other suggestions as well. Watching the destruction of our country inch by inch has been very painful. All of these areas need to be addressed.

Aaron Gardner

it said that it would be cheaper to give them life sentences than to keep them on Death row year after year….if you execute them the cost ends.

Reading comp bro.

http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

When they start sending request for money, return them empty.

Jingles

But simply executing them would be a gross violation of the law and appears process; that wasn’t your point, though.

We are unlikely to agree on the underlying rational for either decision, as you will likely bring up examples of heinous criminals who certainly, in almost everyone’s opinion, deserve execution, and I will bring up examples of exculpatory DNA evidence.

Aaron Gardner

I am not a resident but it is my birthplace so it holds a special place in my heart and always will.

I say we do a combination of both, some get changed to life sentences and shipped to supermax, others such as Manson get the juice.

In addition reform the appeals process to be a little more realistic.

The problem is that the ACLU would never be willing to make that compromise…so effectively the ball is in your court (as in the Left’s).

Diogenes314

I’d like to see a Constitutional ballot measure requiring that all capital cases get first priority on the docket at the appellate and state SC level. The legislature could do this, of course, but look who runs them.

And if it passed, it would be a precedent for the next GOP Congress to copy at the Federal level.

Just a thought. And h/t to Ron White for stealing his shtick.

Aaron Gardner

and notice that I have been purposefully not using the term liberal to describe the leftists and statists anymore…that is because of you…and Mark Levin of course ….. ;^)

Jingles

This Field Poll lays it out pretty bare:

http://field.com/fieldpollonline/subscribers/Rls2306.pdf

Nobody wants to raise their own taxes, but nobody wants their services and programs cut either. It’s the worst of both worlds.

Who’s for a state constitutional convention?

Diogenes314

and shock. Someone here actually is paying attention to me?

At least if Levin agrees, I guess.

The_Gadfly

Then I think that even though he’s a serious lib and delivers the line as the purported villain of the movie, we need to start with Jack Nicholson’s line: You can’t handle the truth.

Because the truth is, your model for government in California has failed. Government necessarily needs to be limited because wants are unlimited. That’s the basic fact and problem of economics. You’ve tried and failed, and tried and failed, and tried and failed to repeal this truth since at least the time of Woodrow Wilson. Until you deal with that, what was the term Al Gore used, oh yeah ‘inconvenient truth’ you won’t be able to deal with the problems in California. You and your cohorts have deprived people of the education necessary to understand this and then exhorted them to believe the impossible was true, and now, as usual you want US to bail you out? Sorry it can’t be done.

And that last bit I mean sincerely, not bitterly. It’s trying to make water dry or fire cold. We can’t bail you out because the fundamental defect is in your perception of the problem. And if you haven’t understood what we’ve been telling you since Reagan was President, I’m afraid there are no words I or any other conservative can use that will convince you otherwise. You are condemned to walk in a prison of your own making.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

The_Gadfly

Not any of us conservatives. We recognize constitutional conventions as a ploy to swipe the current protection of our God given rights for a regime under which the state grants whatever rights it thinks we should have for the moment.

http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

…for the sake of the rest of the country. And assuming I can get safe passage out.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Split California into two states.

Proposed names for coastal California:

Pelosia
Potonia
Freako Hippy Dippy Land

Proposed names for inland California:

Reagan
Franklin
Coolidge

http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

“Lotus Eaters” and “The Adults in the Room”.

Actually, California probably needs to be split into at least three states. Next up would be New York. And lots of folks in PA would probably like an amicable separation from the SE.

drothgery

A good third of the reason why the budget’s such a mess is that so much spending is required due to various initiatives.

Lammo

The American Cancer Society isn’t in favor of cancer. Why is is it that anyone thinks the American Civil Liberties Union is in favor of civil liberties?

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

I covered this in Splitting California.

Where would you draw the lines?

Jingles

But we don’t want LA county either. Give us the Bay Area, Santa Cruz and the Coastal Counties to the border. LA can go on its own.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

But we’re not giving you Senators Feinstein, Boxer, Waters, and Villagarosa while we only get McClintock and DeVore.

mbecker908

The CTA has been destroying education in CA for at least 50 years. Good teachers don’t need to be “protected” they need to be empowered. Bad teachers and damn near all administrators need to be fired and it needs to be done in a way that they are never able to work in “education” again.

Prison guards salaries need to be slashed.

Personally, I hope you get your fondest wish and they do away with the 2/3 requirement. And I hope you and yours starve to death from the tax rates that will be imposed. I’m excited about the number of businesses that will bail out of your state and leave your brain dead residents freezing, hungry, in the dark and unemployed. While illegals and the “homeless” flock to take advantage of your progressive programs.

And just so we’re absolutely clear, I wouldn’t lose a minutes sleep over starving Californians and that’s not a metaphor, it’s a Darwinian exercise.

http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

Especially since California these days is a leader counterexample to Intelligent Design.

Mike gamecock DeVine

admin staff and no teachers. A God send. We got rid of un-needed paper pushers.

Jack_Savage

And the blacks…

antisocial

Improve school system. Restore accountability. Eliminate waste. This accounts for about 40% of California budget.
-Make the teacher pay merit-based. Slash salaries. Fire Bad teachers.
-Increase class size
-Increase fee for community colleges. e.g. 180 (vs. 80) / year is not going to hurt anybody who is utilizing the services. Ideally these institutions should be able to pay for themselves.
Address healthcare. Healthcare accounts for abt 30% of state expenses.
-Eliminate all/most state health programs.
-Ensure maintenance services are provided to legal immigrants/citizens. Make them prove they are CA taxpayers and long time residents.
Deport illegal aliens from CA jails. You pay approx 50,000 annually per prisoner.
Stop providing services to Illegal immigrants.
Eliminate overlapping work within agencies. Better get rid of such agencies.
Get rid of excessive government employees. Bring down the bloated salaries in line with national average.
Reform unemployment benefits and eliminate fraud.
CUT taxes
Get Off the eco train

You use multiple phrases like sad situation, inevitable, deserving etc…

Here is my take….
Life is hard. That is what pushes people to strive for success. You can’t make life rosy for everybody. It is not Government’s job to provide for people. Similarly it is not government’s job to create jobs. It is for people to take care of themselves. That is called self reliance.

If you think paying 180 dollars yearly for community college education is unfortunate I am surprised…. that is less than 50 cents a day…. If somebody can’t pay that much money for education in 1 year that student probably would never get into college.

I think education/healthcare/illegal immigrants are biggest problems. I realize that illegal immigration can not be taken care of overnight. There needs to be an electoral smackdown for that to happen.

Education and healthcare can and should be addressed immediately.
Cutting taxes can be done immediately.
Illegal aliens can be kicked out from prisons and deported from US fairly quickly.
Salaries of state employees can be slashed immediately.
Providing services to illegal immigrants can be stopped immediately.

Jack_Savage

Give it back to Mexico. All of it.

And give Vermont to Canada. All of it.

mbecker908

accountable for the education of their children and give every parent a voucher to spend at the school of their choice. Allow charter/private schools and eliminate the education bureaucrats in Sacramento. Give parents the ability to choose and the flight will be from schools that suck (most public schools) to private/charter schools or to good public schools.

As far as university fees, you can start by eliminating every major can’t enroll enough students to be profitable. Eliminate 95% of all tenured positions and make “professors” teach.

Eliminate “remedial” or “foundations” classes in college that are aimed at students who can’t make the grade when they enroll.

Eliminate “schools of education” and degrees at all levels in “education”. If someone wants to be a teacher, let them major/minor in the subject they want to teach and take a couple of post graduate certification courses in “teaching” NOT education and do not allow post graduate degrees in “education”.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

We won our independence fair and square.

You go to Mexico if you want.

mbecker908

Jack_Savage

Anyone? Anyone? Sanders?

http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

THIS TIME, VOTE FOR THE COLONEL

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

I was just reading an article about heroic US efforts to invade Canada from Vermont during the revolution, including the capture of Montreal.

So Vermont has sentimental value. Let’s keep it.

Jack_Savage

I’ll get back with you all on Maine and Michigan soon.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Aaron Gardner

And Gov. Doulgas is doing the right thing by vetoing the budget and having a special session in oder to get the spending under control.

Don’t count us out yet!!

IJB

I agree that there are certain things that either should *not* be allowed to be decided through Initiative, or should be virtually impossible to decide – basically budgeting should not be up to the voters. Not the tax side (that *should* be subject to Initative!), but the spending side should not be subject to Initiative – you have Rep’s for a reason, and it’s because, presumably, they are experts in budgeting far beyond what “common folks” should know.

The other thing that should not be allowed through Initiative is bond issues (even worse than the budget initiatives have been the various bond issues throughout the year – I suspect they are probably 50% of the cause of the current budget mess).

But pretty much most other legal, and certainly all social issues, should be totally the purview of the people through the Initiative process.

Nothing else even comes close to making sense, AFAIAC…

IJB

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

The initiative system is a disaster, progressive-pushed for a reason: It *favors* the big over the small.

How many initiatives have you read? I know I’ve read few.

The average voter has probably read none.

We mock the Democrats for voting on things they haven’t read. Our system causes the same problem. End it.

SteveLA

Neil

You do realize that Prop 8, a Constitutional amendment was only possible because of the CA initiative process as was Prop 22, the Pete Knight DOMA law?

Doing away with the initiative process transfers all power from the people back to our Assembly except during elections, and Union dollars dominate most races in the state.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

SteveLA

Neil

No the facts of the citizens of CA having a check book that they write from using the initiative process and no clue how to cover the checks is still there.

The right answer is a initiative to place a real budget limit that limits budget growth by some formula involving population growth (legal residents only) and inflation. Control the spending of the Assembly by limiting how much they or John !Q. public can spend and things will get better. Better still, every spending initiative would have to have a statutory raising of the budget limits to pay for it.

Doing away with the 3/4 rule or the initiative is giving into the tax and spend types, and I am against that.

Aaron Gardner

IJB

Bound to happen some time!!

IJB

One of the biggest problems with Leftism, and unfortunately parts of Conservatism, is ignoring basic human nature.

Human nature is such that most people will *never* pay attention to what their reps are doing (until it’s too late to do anything about it). No matter what you do, or how you ‘tweak’ the system, that’s never going to change.

There is *no* upside to eliminating Initiative.

It may be small ‘r’ republican to be so, but it’s fundamentally undemocratic in ways that will make our system of government *more* corrupt and *less* responsive. (Ditto not having Recall.)

There is no upside to that, no matter how much people try to pretend there is.

SteveLA

The initiative process has also put some reasonable abortion restrictions on the ballot too. I’ve supported those with a YES vote when they make the ballot, unfortunately those measures loose.

Democrats will never allow just about any abortion restriction to reach the Governor’s desk, even parental notification.

How shocking, a moderate like me in support of reasonable abortion restrictions going to the people by means of the initiative process. o

Aaron Gardner

it’s just too close to populism for my tastes. That said I think it has a proper role at the lower level such as the county.

Otherwise you do get into a situation of having an infinite want and limited ability to pay for those wants, just as is the case in California.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

We are to have a Republic, not a Democracy. With good reason: Unchecked democracy is purely a tool of evil passions that run through society from time to time, even if occasionaly we get something good out of it.

RS

FRONT PAGE CONTRIBUTOR

The California budget slate goes down

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