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Comment today to help kill Net Neutrality

The proposed Net Neutrality plan before the FCC is in trouble. Until now I’ve called it the Obama-Google Net Neutrality plan, but that’s not entirely the case anymore: the administration is wimping out and cutting its losses on this diastrous idea. According to BigGovernment.com, the only people left fighting for Net Neutrality are far left special interest groups. At least, the ones that don’t represent poor folk who have a hard time getting good Internet access.

When Chairman Julius Genachowski first started talking up the idea, the situation looked terrible. Much as the Congressional Democrats can pass any bill at any time, the FCC should have been able to do whatever the White House wanted. But, much as Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have done with Obamacare, Genachwoski went too far and asked for far more power than mainstream America – left and right – was ready to give.

The result is that we can kill Net Neutrality. Please consider sending a message to the FCC today as this is the deadline for public comments.

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COMMENTS

  • jackhammer

    I have been tryign to figure out what the best arguments against Net Neutrality are, but you aren’t really doing a great job of bringing it across clearly and concisely.

    You say the big money people like google and microsoft are for it to protect their current market dominant position, but you don’t really say how.

    I know that being agaisnt it is the right thing, and I think I know why, but in so many arguments our side makes so much more sense, and in any open debate we win (AGW, Tax Fairness, Big govt. vs. Small and Medium Private sector), but somehow you aren’t putting it across in the simple bullet form easy to understand way that our self evident truths usually can easily be expressed and understood in.

  • KeepOhioRed

    nt

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I’m not prepared to recapitulate months of posts this morning…

    But if you want government regulators granted the power to resolve private disputes over Internet routing and policy, go ahead and stay silent.

  • jackhammer

    I understand why we are against this. It is surprising that Google is for it at the same time as they are threatening to pull out of China.

    We understand that their arguments are based on strawmen that have not materialized, we realize that they don’t hold themselves to the same standard of transparency they would want the ISP’s to provide, but somehow, someone who is really agaisnt this has to be the lord monckton of Net Neutrality, unless it seems to be dying its own geeky death….

    I mean anti- fairness doctrine is an easy argument, anti-death tax is an easy argument, pro-school choice, anti-abortion….they are all easy to encapsulate….you really care and write a lot about net neutrality…find someone who loves it just as much and encapsulate it.

  • bonkey

    And I am no liberal!

    I am a precinct chair in one of the most conservative districts in texas!

    You people don’t even understand what net neutrality is. You are blindly against it, (I think because it has the work neutral in it, or you think it has something to do with the fairness doctrine, which it doesn’t) but I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

    The internet as you know it, was designed and operated under net neutrality. Since it’s begining you have only known the internet under net neutrality, are you against the internet as you have always known it?

    What is net neutrality? Simply put, it means that all internet traffic is treated equally. My traffic and your traffic are equal. Amazon’s traffic, and barnes and nobles traffic are equal. No one gets an unfair advantage, you don’t get a slower connection to amazon just because B&N paid your ISP (internet service provider) some money.

    People please don’t do what we accuse the liberals of doing. Go learn what this is about before expressing oppinions in ignorance.

    Go read some of the articles on this subject on slashdot.org or other technical websites.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    NN is not an immediate socialization.

    It’s not an immediate takeover.

    It’s an issue you can’t 100% explain without explaining how TCP/IP, the fundamental pair of protocols that rus the Internet, actually works.

    But I’ve found quote after quote of the proponents of this stuff explaining their real goals. I’ve shown how it would put America at a disadvantage. I’ve illustrated at length, repeatedly, how it’s fundamentally unfair in its favoring some people over others, picking winners and losers.

    I freely confess I have no idea what else needs shown here.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    You’ve allowed yourself to be deluded by socialists.

    Poor thing. I feel sorry for you and your ignorance.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    You mean the site where you say you’re sad to be a Republican?

    You sound more like a troll to me. A pro-big government, pro-regulation, socialist troll.

  • mschmitt

    I’m just not sure that we need Net Neutrality legislation to enforce it. Is the internet somehow on the verge of collapse without this federal intervention?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    This wondrous age of wireless Internet access is going to create crushing competition between them and the Cable and DSL providers.

    It’s a great time to want Internet access, but government bureaucrats getting involved in every setting on every router (including the one in your home) will ruin that.

  • jackhammer

    the whole B&N paying your ISP money thing…..there is no evidence it has happened.

    We have seen evidence that Google is willing to delete sites they have problems with form their results, thus abusing their market dominant position.

    But people say that ompanies would pay ISP’s for better or quicker access, but the only people who follow that sort of business model are advertiser fueled companies like google adwords where they raise the price of search terms you choose to advertise with on a daily basis to see where your breaking point is.

    The fact is that ISP’s could only have such access control if they are protected by government monopolies, whcih most aren’t,a nd they don’t actually puruse the pay for play business model…they provide a service and infrastructure for a set price and compete on the open market.

    If there are government granted monopolies or barriers to entry that are government granted or protected, those need to be opposed.

    But try out adwords for yourself,a dn watch them lure you in with a low quote for a word, and then as it generates traffic move the price up for those words….

  • macjedi

    Let me help you. My business uses the Internet, A LOT. Telecommunications has been shifting to the Internet revolution for over 5 years. THE LAST thing that anyone should want to invite is more government involvement, and I mean HEAVY HANDED involvement. The imposition of Federal Fees on this growing segment should cause everyone alarm because, they are completely unnecessary, except as favors to certain groups that leach off of industry. As an example of the out-of-controlness of Federal involvement, follow the link to the FCC website where you can make comments on this important topic. IF you can actually use this website, it can only be because you work for the FCC or are a assimilated into their system.

  • becolt

    but having never filed something like this before, there are a couple of details I’m unsure of:
    Is there a preferred document file type for the filing?
    Do I need to check myself off as the filer, the author, or does it matter?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I don’t know the document types though, sorry.

    This activism stuff is new to me too :-)

  • becolt

    I think you’re right on that, it’s set up as if public comment is meant purely for your lawyer to take care of, but like most of us, I can’t even afford to look at a lawyer cross-eyed.
    Maybe I’d be best off using a .doc or .txt, it seems to me that most programs can open both of those.

  • mschmitt

    … file a form 60-C with the clerk, then take that to the register, which you must do in person (also, the fee is based on your tax return, so bring your information — unless you filed with a 1040-EZ; but then of course you should’ve filed the 602-C, instead). OK, now, if you’re both the filer and the author, then you will need an additional proof of signature by having doc 420 stamped and notarized in triplicate. Unfortunately, the system can’t handle filer authors, so you’ll need to mail your packet via certified mail and then wait for instructions.

  • bonkey

    Rather than name calling, how about some facts.

    http://www.publicknowledge.org/content/papers/pk-net-neutrality-whitep-20060206

    http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/23/0240207/FCC-Begins-Crafting-Net-Neutrality-Regulations

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    You forgot the 27b-6. If you forget the 27b-6 then Central Services has to start all over.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Slashdot and Wikipedia? Why not skip the hassle and link us straight to Save the Internet and Google Policy Blog?

  • USNJIMRET

    the last part of your comment, macjedi——Hell yeah!!
    What IS it with that form?
    I have filled out on line petitions, forms, surveys, etc over the years and the very first ‘required’(?) data field (I assume that the blue box next to some of the fields indicate a required entry field, not sure.) is “Proceeding Number”. Don’t know what number, if any, is assigned to the public comment section of the ‘debate’ on NN.
    Is it possible that the link is not the correct one?
    BTW, without having to know the technical details of this proposed thing. And admitting, as I did in the lead to this post, to not “knowing” lots about the base idea of NN, or any of the possible/probable impacts upon me, I can say that I am against it.
    As I am against any intrusion into the day to day life of Americans, particularly by a Government agency that is claiming to be ready to “help”.
    The legions of nameless, faceless, unaccountable and often unresponsive civil servants have already ‘helped’ me about as much as I can tolerate.
    No on Net Neutrality, and/or any other growth of government control, regulation and intrusion into my life!

  • janis

    The government ALWAYS takes more than they say they want. The government ALWAYS screws things up when they push their agenda into private enterprise areas. And when they attempt to do this, it’s up to us to say, “NO!!”

    I confess, I don’t understand all the technical issues here. But I know and trust Neil. And I know and don’t trust the government, any government, but especially THIS government. Simple enough?

  • mschmitt
  • Aaron Gardner
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • nolan

    Pretend, for a minute, that someone who hasn’t been following the issue has logged on to your thread. What facts have you provided to sell your argument? Claiming the issue is highly technical is implying that the reader isn’t smart enough to understand the issue. You need to provide information everytime you present your argument. It doesn’t have to be a full-blown overly-technical analysis, just some pertinent facts. Opinions are not always persuasive, insults never are. That’s why the most effetive people are effective. They provide details and facts to support their opinions and rarely resort to insults, if ever. Have the maturity and confidence to defend your views with facts, Neil. Insults don’t cut the mustard! That’s what trolls do.
    Also, when you provide a link that is so generalized as the FCC link you provided is, you need to help the reader navigate the site. For instance, What is the proceeding number? What type of filing should it be? A comment, a complaint, a motion to dismiss?
    And, though I’ve never heard of slashdot (I will look it up if I have time), bonkey is probably sad to be a Republican considering the state of the Party and the abysmal behavior displayed by the leadership. I’m no longer registered, I don’t send them money, but wouldn’t vote D even with a gun to my head.(I’m sure you’ll jump all over that, won’t you? Accusing me of being a fair-weather type of guy! Remember what Reagan said about the Dem party?)
    I read RS almost daily and am quite impressed by the content of most threads and posts, but you seem to be a one-trick pony, and an immature one at that.
    Please take that as constructive criticism, not as the insult it may appear to be.
    out

  • Brian Hibbert

    And it’s not just my opinion. It’s the opinion of the guy who invented the internet. (No not Al Gore, the one who REALLY invented it).

  • becolt

    on giving them more information than I do the IRS, I think I found a quicker, dirtier way to file a comment: ECFS Express http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/hotdocket/list

  • Brian Hibbert
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • mschmitt

    http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/hotdocket/list

    proceeding #09-191

  • becolt

    Because I’m just waking up I went the easy route and searched “arguments against net neutrality” on Google, quickly found a site with answers that matched mine, and found this http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/hotdocket/list

  • janis

    He’s a moderator here at RS, and I assure you that the powers that be who appointed him to that task don’t consider him to an immature one-trick pony. He’s indispensable here.

    You? Not so much.

  • nolan

    Yeah, I’m concerned. Not about Neil so much as him getting his point across effectively, which, if you could comprehend the posts above, you’d realize he isn’t.
    However, he is right about one thing… You can’t all pass the IQ test (but evidently, there ain’t one!).

  • bonkey

    And for the same reason’s I stated there, and here. When people blindly follow something without understanding it.

    I want my fellow republicans to be educated on the issues.

    Yes this is technical. Yes, this is complicated. So, God forbid, let’s get educated on it.

    Blind devotion is a bad thing. If people learn what it is, and are still against it, great! But, at least know what it is.

  • Aaron Gardner
  • nolan

    How immature are you kids?
    You’re laughable!
    You make the conservative movement look like a weak parody of the progressives, what with the insults and arrogance.
    And while I understand I’m only one of many readers, in that context, I’m more valuable than you can comprehend. Without readers, this turns into an echo chamber.
    Don’t be so impressed with yourselves.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Maybe if you used your technical prowess to look in the archives, you would realize that this topic has had many diaries on it.

    The only blind faith being displayed here is in your belief that the rest of us haven’t a clue about this subject.

    Next time do your background research before you start claiming that you are the only person who knows what is going on.

  • janis

    We’re not “so impressed with ourselves”, we’re just not the least bit impressed with you. Concern trolls and “I’m the smartest guy in the room” trolls are a dime a dozen.

    RedState has grown to the stature it has without your input, and it will continue to grow long after you are gone on to lesser pastures.

  • Richard Mullins

    anyways, has anyone notice that his name is bonkey, that’s every close to donkey and the Democrats are known as Donks. I think he needs to be Hinz ruled right now.

  • becolt

    but you’re all wrong.
    Nolan: Calm down and post a comment that says “if you don’t know enough, search ‘net neutrality’ in the search bar.” And, if this site is frequented by laughable people who make the conservative movement look bad, why come here at all? They share your view, but just don’t underestimate the average reader’s ability to search for information.
    Everyone else: Calm down and let Nolan walk away holding his booboo.

  • USNJIMRET
  • Aaron Gardner
  • becolt

    Now you’ve made me unsure. I used the one that appears in bold type.

  • Richard Mullins

    nolan and a few others are not to be spoken to. I mean it, when I say we should invoke the Hinz rule on them.

  • Rob_McEwen

    AND HERE IS WHAT I SUBMITTED TO THE FCC:

    Dear FCC,

    I run an anti-spam blacklist which is in use by dozens of organizations across the world. (?Thousands? if you count my customer?s customers who are impacted by my data.) Additionally, my largest customer (whom I?m not permitted to specifically name) is a Fortune 100 company and they use my ?invaluement? data as an integral part of the spam filtering product they sell, which is an industry-leading anti-spam appliance currently used by many corporations in the U.S. (and world-wide). My second largest customer is Cox Communications, and they currently outright block incoming spam based on the data that I provide to Cox Communications

    READ THE WHOLE THING HERE:

    http://dnsbl.invaluement.com/NetNeutrality.pdf

    BOTTOM LINE: If this passes without MUCH better wording–be prepared to get slammed with massive amounts of spam–and your ISP won’t be able to help you with that.

    BTW – Coincedentally, Erick Erickson and I attend the same Church in Macon, GA. I try hard to not bug him each week about politics, but often fail! :)

  • josh_kahn

    I trust the free market to give me product choices, not the government. We should all oppose “Net Neutrality.”

  • nolan

    that I implied, anywhere, that Neil was ignorant on the subject? He’s not conveying his point effectivley, which is what I said, so I couldn’t tell if he was ignorant or the most knowledgable guy on the subject.
    And I don’t suffer from an inability to read past posts, but have very little free time to pursue every issue that others think is the most important issue facing us today. If someone presents compelling facts in a post that I’ve just come across, I’ll be more inclined to read more on the issue. If someone resorts to insults, do you think a person would be more or less inclined to support your cause?

  • USNJIMRET

    As I said, naming conventions by those looking to hide something, willful confusion of an issue.
    Can’t just call the damn thing “Net Neutrality”, and be done with it!
    THAT might mean the public, the folks MOST affected by something, might actually bother their empty little heads about it.
    Sheesh….

  • nolan

    and at the risk of sounding immature myself, you started it!

  • Aaron Gardner

    His comments insinuated that Neil was ignorant on the subject of NN. If you don’t endorse that sentiment, then don’t endorse it.

    Again, it’s not Neil’s fault that you are so important and don’t have the time to read what has been put out there. It’s yours.

    Get it?

  • Aaron Gardner

    I have yet to call you a name.

    Get over yourself.

  • nolan

    you are quite impressed with yourselves. You may be smart, no doubt there, but are you the smartest guy in the room? I’m not the smartest, but clearly the most mature here. My post to neil was to get him to provide more info in posts so people would be more inclined to support jis issue. Not to resort to insults at the first sign of adversity.
    And the “lesser Pastures” comment is a pretty good indicator of your self-importance.

  • nolan

    Moe ands Eric have a great deal of political savvy and are very insightful. I don’t know how often they resort to insults when people disagree, but they certainly seem more mature than Neil.
    I don’t underestimate the ability of people to search, but read my response at 11:41 to arron

  • mschmitt

    “In the Matter of Preserving the Open Internet Broadband Industry Practices”

  • janis

    expect that the rest of us have to make things easy for you since we have an unlimited amount of free time to repeat everything that’s been said over the past 6 months on this issue just so you can understand it?

    Of course, dear, that’s what we’re all here for, to coddle little fellas like you.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Come back when you can get the basics right.

  • mschmitt

    I am already able to tie my shoes and make market decisions without your army of helpful bureaucratic nincompoops standing by to scratch my butt.

  • janis

    I’m just one of thousands here. But so are you. Obviously, if you don’t have the time to read up on this issue, it’s not compelling enough for you to be informed on it. So don’t be.

    As for my reference to “lesser pastures”, that’s because you seem to think that you are so vital here that Neil should bend over backwards to spoon feed you what you want. If you went to a smaller website that was struggling for readership, perhaps they could satisfy your demands out of necessity.

  • USNJIMRET

    At least that’s how far I got before I saw it.
    Sheesh.
    Like I said, not only is the naming convention deliberately misleading, or confusing, but then pages and pages of ‘stuff’ before you are even certain that the process you want to comment on is the one you are preparing to comment on.
    One of the things that the ‘elite; of all political sides tout is the incredibly low number of voters every time there is an election. Coupled with that is the general lack of interest by the average citizen in the workings of the government, the process’s that ARE the actual government.
    But when it takes as much time as it does just to insure that you have the correct “Proceedings Number” before you tackle the, again, deliberately contrived comment process…
    If I didn’t know better, I would say that some people are going out of their way to make damn sure that very few comments are generated.
    Just saying.

  • Rob_McEwen

    http://dnsbl.invaluement.com/spam-blocker/net-neutrality/

    (so you can now read that without having to load up a pdf)

  • nolan

    not about the issue itself, which bonkey provided links to. I have yet to read them, as I’ve wasted my time here. It’s not that I’m so important, Aaron, just busy. Kids to the doctor’s, stock research, other research, time with the kids, store, etc. I guess, in a way I am important, and my time is very valuable, to my family. If Neil provided at least some hard info as to why this should be so important to me, I’d be more inclined to put it on my list of things to do. If he justs can’t be bothered, and resorts to insults, or if his support network does, how does that convince me?
    I understand that this administration is bad news on just about every level, and I try to read what I can. But I have to be interested, or at least convinced that it’s important. You all may be smart (I’m sure you are) but I’m not ‘gonna just take anybody’s word on anything. COnvince me. Or at least interest me.

  • penguin2

    to know when someone like you shows up, that you are here to cause trouble. It is you who comes across as condescending. Mature and knowledgeable people know how to have reasonable debate, and not come here and insult everyone is sight.

  • USNJIMRET

    No, No, NO!!! Do NOT proceed with this next tentacle of the monster that our Government has become!
    Allow competition be the driving and guiding force that improves the INTERNET, and related activity.
    Government, even well meaning Government, intrusion into every aspect of day-to-day American life has made a complicated situation even more so, with no proof that it has improved the country as a whole.
    In fact, most evidence of what Government ‘regulation’ (whatever it’s called to obscure it’s real impact) is to the negative.
    Less access, at a higher cost, for poorer service.
    So again, let Market Place Forces be the preeminent regulatory system of my INTERNET access.
    Stop with all the Government “help”. I’ve been ‘helped’ about all I can stand.

  • jackhammer

    As I said earlier, and I certainly ma not a troll, Neil does write a lot about this stuff,a dn he doesn’t bring his point across as clearly as a lot of other writers do about a lot of other issues. Nolan is also right in saying he is sort of going the route of a lot of left wing sites with calling people trolls, and insulting them and such.

    That Bonkey guy might actually be a troll who has never posted before, does not seek any constructive debate adn already has his mind made up. But nolans criticisms seem to be the same as mine, whcih were seconded by KeepOhioRed (which doesn’t sound like a troller name).

    We know that Neil is a moderator, and that gives him some additonal power. It would be pretty pathetic if he abused that for anyone who would criticize what he wrote, or how he responded to criticism, be it constructive or otherwise.

    You have to realize this site is growing, and that means new people read it, people who might not be fully up to date on allt eh lingo used here, or the abbreviations, or what “nt” means or what the IQ test is that Aaron is talking about. Be polite and make people feel comfortable here.

    And the truth is that much of what Neil has written is about net neutrality, I have trouble remembering posts of his having to do with much else in the last couple of months, and often in reading them, and often in reading through the comments I have thought howdifficult it is to understand exactly why it is an important fight.

    The health care bill is technical, long and complicated, but most people are able to summarize in a sentence or 5 why it makes no sense….we’re just asking Neil to think about being more clear about it in concise form to make the posts more meaningful.

    Perhaps somehting like:

    Net Neutrality is an unnecessary set of government regulations sought under the auspices of assuring unfettered and equal access to the net, based upon a threat that has never been used.

    I think phrased properly, the left could really get on board…..

    I think the hacking at Google is unnecessary, they are the supporters, but what they do in their search and lacking transparency or neutrality in that, is an aside,a dn not central to whether NN is good or bad.

    It is bad, properly presented, government intrusion is inherently bad, and can be abused…and who knows what happens when Maxime Waters husband wants her to route all routers to his current ebay auctions….

  • jackhammer

    I think 5 of those sort are a lot better than a bunch of uninformed ones by people like me.

  • jackhammer

    has the choice between:

    at least 1 phone company
    at least 1 cell phone company
    at least 1 cable company
    at least 1 sattelite company
    sometimes 1 electricity company

    to get their internet access….I doubt all of them are colluding….

    Is it just about google asking AT&T to help them gain better access to put AT&T out of business by getting the people on Skype rather than an AT&T plan…..and you do realize that unless oyu are calling Azerbaijan, it is probably cheaper to buy some AT&T calling package for your long distance calls anyway.

    So there are plenty of options, and I guess more all the time…..if google, microsoft and co are so hot on it, get their own hardware set up and become dominat ISP’s, they have the market cap to finance it….

  • mschmitt

    First, nt = no text (and magic code voodoo that lets you not type into the message box if you make your point in the title)

    Second, google deserves quite a bit of scrutiny, because (A) they bought a huge chunk of spectrum from the FCC that could be used to develop a new type of wireless ISP service and (B) one of the obvious effects of NN is to cripple telcos which are relying on old infrastructure copper/fiber given the rate of increase in streaming content.

    Implementing QoS (quality of service, meaning throttling access to people who need/pay less) and partnering (providing faster access to member sites) are two ways the old telcos can continue to do business, and (correct me if I’m wrong) I believe that they would not be allowed to do so with a federal Net Neutrality bill.

    The problem with google’s approach is that their business model apparently cannot compete with wired services unless the government limits those companies ability to adapt to the changing internet. If it was really such a wonderful product — they would be successful regardless of what the ISP’s did.

  • mschmitt

    It’s a pass/fail sort of thing, but frequent retests are required.

  • leonel

    What that man said is exactly what net neutrality is. It’s in the name itself! The ‘net’ is ‘neutral’ to EVERYONE! No special preferences, no company has an advantage over another, everyone is equal. With the internet being neutral to all parties, every company from the Fortune 500 to the good old fashioned Mom & Pop business on Main St has the opportunity to compete in a free market system and breed the competitive spirit that made this nation of ours great and prosperous. Why it’s the same exact concept that the Democrats CANNOT pay ISP’s to make their websites load faster and quicker than RedState! That’s the way the internet has always been and that’s the way I hope it will be forever.

    And, my friend, if wanting everyone to be equal is socialist, if wanting the Main St business to compete equally and fairly with Big Business is socialist, well then you can go fall in a ditch for all I care because this is America, land of equal opportunity.

  • nessa
  • Aaron Gardner

    I will gladly wait for a response to that, you know, when ever you are done with that bong of yours.

  • leonel

    “A people… who are possessed of the spirit of commerce, who see and who will pursue their advantages may achieve almost anything.”

    – George Washington

  • Aaron Gardner

    Come back when have a working knowledge of the community here.

  • Aaron Gardner

    What, did you think I had forgotten?

  • leonel

    The internet is relatively new and for a period of time people in power didn’t understand it so there really hasn’t been any regulation passed on it but are getting on it now. Much like how the government regulates how many hours an airline pilot can fly or how clean water has to be fit for human consumption or what food additives are safe to put in hot dogs and what aren’t.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I asked why we need it. You didn’t even come close to answering that.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Given that your quote actually refers to the ability of individuals to be perfectly capable of facilitating commerce on their own, without governmental interference.

    But I get ahead of myself. You will now apologize for your comparison of this site with Stalinism. Next post.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Priorities, my dear fellow.

  • nolan

    don’t read into them.
    I gave Neil advice on how to be a better activist. By his own admission he’s new at this. I don’t expect the rest of you to do anything except provide data/facts/info to support your opinions. And, again, if you could read the post, I said a full-blown analysis wasn’t required, just some basic facts.
    Quit lookin’ for stuff that just ain’t there.
    Your post @11:35 falls under the category of lookin’ for somthing that ain’t there. I qualified the statement by stating that I am only one of many readers here, didn’t I? Aren’t readers, even new one’s important? And if I’m not so indespensible here because I’m only one of many (or what did you say, thousands?), then do you feel that way about yourself?
    Asking to be spoon-fed? Again, lookin’ for somethin’ that ain’t there! Reading into the post rather than reading the post. Even hammer @11:59 understands (apologies to him for missing his name, but my screen is cropped and I can’t see the left inch or so of the thread) Are you ‘gonna go after him, too?

  • Aaron Gardner
  • janis

    grandkids and work around the farm, etc., so I don’t have time to go look up comments from the past. If you want to get my attention, and be a better blogging activist, then you should be willing and able to quote me the things that you wish me to look at and understand.

    As to how I view my importance to RedState, I’m just one of thousands who read here and comment. No more important than any other reader or commenter. The difference between you and I is that I never demanded that RedState conform to my schedule.

  • nolan

    smart enough to know I’m here to cause trouble? How, exactly? By suggesting to Neil he could do a better job at presenting his info?
    Read Neil’s stuff again and tell me he’s mature! That he has a reasonable debate wioth people who disagree or ask probing questions. Did I insult everyone in sight? Did I insult JackHammer or bonkey or anyone else? It is evident that the kids here jumped on me and lableled me a troll! For what, exactly? Pointing out his stuffs not compelling? That he leaves alot to be desired in his debating skills and his confidence?
    Don’t bother responding, I’m done w/ you, too!

  • janis
  • janis

    penguin2 is the kindest person here on RedState. If you got her ticked off, then you really should take it as a genuine clue that you aren’t playing well with others.

  • Aaron Gardner
  • JadedByPolitics

    Neil do US and the whole of Redstate’s INTELLIGENT & DIVERSE readership a FAVOR and ICE HIM!

  • nolan

    but that’s minutiae, not basics.
    And no, you didn’t call me a name (wow, I feel immature just writing that), but saying I have an “… inablility to read past posts…” isn’t exactly an accolade, now is it?
    However, I apologize for the general tone towards you,

  • nolan
  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    I haven’t said anything on this thread because I figured yall had it handled.

    nolan you started out with criticism instead of asking if there is background info. Neil has done quite a number of posts on net neutrality and what it means. This site is searchable, especially under a user’s name.

    You complain that you don’t have time because of your busy life. Guess what. We all have busy lives but your if your busy life is more important to you than others’ why should they bother with you? If it’s important to you, you would make the time but you don’t. You wanted it handed to you.

    The problem with net neutrality is that the bill will be anything but neutral and all about control as in neutered. The government slaps such seemingly positive names on that control so that people won’t understand it until the effects are rammed down their throats. Your choice, read up on it or continue to snipe.

  • Aaron Gardner

    And saying that you are incapable of looking at the archives isn’t an insult. If you consider that an insult I suggest you not come back here as your sensitive nature will only cause you heartache.

    And, I don’t need and apology, but it would be great if you apologized to Neil for equating him to a DKos troll, as you did in your first comment.

    Hinz Rule

  • penguin2

    And I will respond because your words right off the bat “calling Neil a one-trick pony and an immature one at that” were intentionally insulting on your part. So no, it is not about you trying to have someone make a better argument, and you know it. If you have been reading the site as you say, you would have known there have been multiple articles posted about Net Neutrality, you are the one that needs to do his homework.

    You would also know many of the posters and know how to engage in debate on this site. As far as your party politics, it really doesn’t matter, because if you have these opinions about us here, you obviously don’t like us, and that is the one thing you have been quite clear about.

  • nolan

    and show me where I “demanded” that RS coform to my schedule!
    The original post I made suggested that Neil can do a better job of selling his POV, didn’t it?
    Are you seriously that lazy you can’t scroll up/down? You’re clearly intellectually lazy if you can’t work through a couple of posts on the same page and deterrmine that you are flat-out wrong! Doesn’t a specific reference to the time stamp provide you with the adequate information that would get your attention?
    Janis, you’re not clever enough by half, dear.
    And Aaron, please, if you’re ‘gonna nitpick peoples spelling and typing, make sure your grammer is spot-on. You should have typed “…my time is TOO (not to) valuable…”
    And please, like I just called out Janis, quote me where I say I want you to provide a years worth of posts.
    And lastly, I didn’t mention dkos at all in my first post. I didn’t imply he was “no better”, it was an admonsihment not to act like one. Do you know what an admonsihment is? It doesn’t quite fall under the insult category, however, do you not see that he is quick w/ the insults and short on substance?

  • janis
  • Aaron Gardner

    Here is a screenshot of your last post put into Microsoft Word, with the grammar and speel checker on.

    douche bag,grammar,nolan,redstate

    Needless to say, I won’t be taking any advice from you on the subject. Especially since you don’t know the difference between a typo and an actually grammatical error.

    Also, since you aren’t here to talk politics, but rather to talk about Neil, I am done with you.

    Hinz Rule

  • penguin2

    how to get along here and really just doesn’t seem to have a clue about how to talk to people here. Nolan, you just came to make trouble, In My Humble Opinion.

  • nolan

    I startred out w/ criticism? Did Neil attempt to provide background info to those who posted before me? Make note of the time stamps. When I posted, he didn’t engage, he insulted (others, not me). Is hammer as way out of line as I am? I see that he is more civil than I have been, but my first post was jumped on by people who are of an overly-sensitive nature and look for insults that just ain’t there.
    I didn’t complain that I have a busy life. I said that he’d garner more attention if he provided more info in his posts, no more, no less. I even specifically stated it doesn’t have to be a “…full-blown, overly-technical analysis…” I don’t know how you read into it that I wanted it handed to me. If he wants to be effective in bringing people to his cause, he should present more (some) info to hook a novice. Don’t you think? I can’t possibly know if it should be important to me based on what he posted. I even attempted to link to the FCC, but had no info with which to work and navigate the site.
    And since when is defending one’s self sniping? Do you think that the other’s aren’t? In fact, your post here is nothing but sniping, isn’t it?
    I understand how the gov’t (R or D) grossly mislabels legislation. And I wasted time responding to absurdities complaining about form, making up quotes in order to make me look bad. Sounds like whining, I know, but am I not allowed to point out where others have misquoted, misunderstood or insulted me unprovoked.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    …you didn’t get any better as it went on, and are surviving right now mostly because I have a kid who got his first shots today and am therefore not quite sure of how well my irritation levels are calibrated.

    Take advantage of that last.

  • janis

    But you didn’t want to sleep tonight anyway, did you? Here’s hoping that the little guy gets over it quickly. Once they have an unpleasant time of it with the first batch, it doesn’t make you want to get the second one, I know.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    I think he’s right.

    You’ve been here all of two months and some odd days. I haven’t been around much for that last month except for some drive by reading in between my own business matters. Yet, you propose to tell others how to do things around here.

    You talk down to people and when they take exception to being talked down to you have something else to say and then accuse them of being the ones sniping. For all I care you can get right back on that high horse you rode in on and ride back out.

    Now before you get all hopped up on indignation, why don’t you take the time to do what has been suggested and read some past posts? Again, it’s your choice.

    It’s time to invoke Hinz Rule considering the myopia with which you are afflicted.

  • zroxx

    If you want to understand “net neutrality” you have to start by taking an objective and mature look from the “50k foot” level. I’ll give you the key background points, and I’ll give a lengthy explanation, and then try and provide a couple brief paragraphs on why you should be opposed to “net neutrality”. These will be summarized in bullet points at the very bottom if you want to skip to there. Finally, here is a post with a lot of good sources for rationale and arguments against net neutrality if you’d like to avail yourself of additional objective criticisms.

    1) There is a very competitive playing field with regards to the Internet, content/service production, and content/service delivery. In this competitive environment, companies are looking to exploit all possible (legal, we hope/expect) means to gain an advantage.

    2) We have a government that is historically and currently willing to interfere in the marketplace. The extent and direction that they interfere in is largely determined by the political advantage legislators can gain in exchange for providing lobbying companies with competitive advantage (via regulatory legislation).

    Put 1 and 2 together and you have a simple and accurate explanation for why there are some companies for “net neutrality” and some against, and why companies on either side are pressing the government angle to try and gain and/or retain competitive advantage.

    So why are some companies like, let’s say, OpenDNS or Twitter. falling on the pro-NN side? The common theme in companies supporting NN is that they are primarily content and/or service producers. They do not own or control the means of delivery. They are dependent on delivery channels to survive. It’s easy to understand then why Twitter might prefer the government to dictate that companies with control over the -content delivery- aspect be legally prohibited from taking actions that might interfere with, raise costs associated with, or otherwise create some competitive disadvantage for Twitter’s business activities. Now I don’t believe this is likely; it certainly hasn’t happened yet to any significant degree and the couple examples that I am aware of were handled without government intervention. It makes sense too – Verizon (they would be a -content delivery- company in this case) would have a customer uproar if they suddenly started degrading or blocking access to Twitter or Flickr or Google.

    Why are some companies like AT&T falling on the anti-NN side? For one thing, companies don’t usually pine for the government to dictate how they do business – it adds no revenue and burdens them with the expense of regulatory compliance. Specifically and in this case, AT&T as a content delivery company (at least where it’s broadband Internet offering is concerned) is responsible for the costs associated with maintaining its network infrastructure. I can imagine they may want to explore, at some point, the pursuit of revenue not only from subscribers to their broadband delivery offering but from those content/service producers who account for larger portions of traffic over their network. Or they may never pursue this! But I -know- they will want to keep the option open in case it is a viable opportunity for competitive advantage or increased revenue.

    Getting this far and understanding the background is important in my opinion, because if you start to attribute “evil” or “conspiracy” to companies on either side then you are not looking at the situation with any degree of maturity or an understanding of market dynamics. I’d have to wonder if you grasp capitalism itself.

    In reality, these companies are looking at a playing field where government favoritism is up for grabs. It shouldn’t be! If we could get a government that finally devotes itself to the narrow purposes of justice, liberty, and security… as an advocate of a limited government I expect ours to stop interfering, but that is not the case right now and as a capitalist, I expect the companies I invest in to play to win using whatever (legal, again) means they have.

    So why should you fall on the anti-NN side as far as what action our -government- should take? At this point you should at least realize that NN represents an increase in the scope of government, and would be a form of legislated favoritism. If you oppose government subsidy of certain businesses or industries, or if you oppose government growing in scope even while it’s failing to manage basic functions like balancing it’s own budget, then you have similar reasons to oppose NN. In my opinion NN decreases justice (via favoring one group of companies – and shareholders – over another) and liberty (by restricting the legal mechanisms available to one group of companies to grow and be successful).

    Since NN represents a change from status quo in the direction of increased government scope, there ought to be some compelling reasons for that increase. The chief reason usually given, that this is necessary to protect the consumer, is not compelling to me. The hypothesis is that unless checked, content delivery networks will, I guess, exercise some sort of arbitrary censorship, blocking one content producer but allowing another at their whim. But AT&T does not have a monopoly and consumers have choices between broadband providers, making such actions (which would disenfranchise customers) counterproductive and unlikely. I see no increase of justice, liberty, or security resulting from NN. If you can’t find a compelling reason to increase the scope of government then you should oppose it, or at least not support it.

    In bullet form:

    .) Net neutrality is an unnecessary increase in government scope/expense at least at this point. We should not legislate based on a theory of what might happen if we don’t at least in those situations where safety/security is not an issue.

    .) Net neutrality represents an unjust interference by government insofar as it would favor the competitive interests of one group of companies over another group.

    .) Net neutrality decreases the liberty of those American citizen business owners and shareholders who own, operate, or invest in the companies that would be prohibited from taking otherwise legal actions as part of their competitive strategies for growth and success.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C
  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

    Net Neutrality is a law to prevent network providers from establishing different rates of service for different customers and types of traffic. It will prevent providers from introducing newer, faster, more expensive services for people who are willing to pay more. It will cause providers to stick with exactly the same service they offer today for eternity, until government ponies up the upgrade costs for the next step.

    If Net Neutrality had been passed ten years ago we would all be reading RS on 56kbps lines and YouTube would be nearly unknown in the US.