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Cain on the roller coaster

By: Neil Stevens (Diary)  |  November 4th, 2011 at 12:00 PM  | 

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Cain Romney

It always pleases me when two polls taken close together have very similar results. Even if they make out to be wrong some speculation of mine.

So yes, it’s looking like Herman Cain isn’t exactly being helped this week. And if the new Rasmussen poll is genuinely showing a trend from the previous national poll, then he needs this story done as soon as possible. Eyes are wandering.

The facts: 1000 likely Republican voters, mostly phone polling but with some alternative outreach to hit people without phones. MoE 3.

As I said, this poll doesn’t change much from the last poll. The order is Cain, Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich. In fact Romney’s 23, Rick Perry’s 8, and Ron Paul’s 7 are all exactly the same from the Quinnipiac poll. The only change is that Cain is down four points to 26, and Newt Gingrich is up four points to 14.

To be clear: There’s a 1/3 chance that a four point swing from one poll to the next here doesn’t actually mean anything. As funny and perfectly coincidental it is that Gingrich gained what Cain lost, just as some people predicted would happen, we don’t really know yet that it’s happening.

But if I’m Herman Cain, then I’m taking it as a serious possibility, and choosing my strategies accordingly. I survived the 9-9-9 debate when Romney got hammered in the next debate. I may not be so lucky as to get the benefit of a mistake to swing back up after this.

Crossposted from Unlikely Voter

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COMMENTS

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  • uhangtight

    The next to rise will be Newt. I know many Perry.bots were optimistic it would roll to Perry. Realize this: those that strolled away from Perry will be hard pressed to come back. I am one of them. I will not be back. If for some stupid reason the idiot party does nominate Perry, I will hold my nose like I did for McCain and vote AGAINST Obama and not FOR the Republican.

  • Finrod

    Cain and Romney were both at 29 in last month’s Rasmussen poll, and in this month’s (taken Wednesday night), it’s Cain at 26, Romney at 23.

  • Scope

    of the week/month. He will surely wipe the floor with Cain in the one on one debate. I think that will be painful to watch. He will then be put in the vetting spotlight, and all those various pieces of baggage that he has been carrying around, and new new pieces he has picked up this season will all come flying out from their temporary hiding places in the closet. Then everyone will move on to who- Huntsman? Santorum? Buddy Roemer? Maybe the preacher that said he was going to burn the Koran that is now claiming that he will run?

  • Langley

    Why are you so vehemently opposed to Perry?

  • jaykali

    It might take him down. I am kind of resigned that it’s going to be Romney and even tho that doesn’t give me much of a thrill up my leg I still feel like he’s probably got the best chance to beat Obama and the thought of the disgusted, bewildered looks on the faces of Chris Matthews and his cohorts as they watch Obama lose in a landslide will make me happy again I’m thinking.

  • tailfins1959

    Should we mark you down as a Romney man? That is the real choice Romney or Perry. Which do you prefer?

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    It’s going to be Romney, Perry, and maybe Cain (depends on how much Cain raises, how quickly he can fix his organization, and how badly he loses Iowa).

    Moe Lane

  • BlueFalcon

    For some reason, it has gripped Cain and everyone who supports him.. I can’t find a post on any right-side blog where a Cain proponent does not mention “Perry bots” or “Perrry-blinded” or “you must be a Perry supporter” in response to any legitimate criticism of their chosen candidate. They can’t go a day without trashing him; and it has been thus since Perry joined the race.

    I’m starting the think perhaps Perry ran over Cain’s dog, or something.

  • Spartan4Life

    Then you will be miserable again.

  • thisisme7

    All the polls show that, anywhere from 70-80% of those polled have not made up their mind! Cain may be leading now (gonna change, see Fred Thompson & Rudy Giuliani!) but among an enormously small group that is willing to change their minds. Right now Cain is getting sympathy votes and donations, when that subsides hopefully they will see that the guy can’t take media scrutiny or questions! If he can’t do that… how do we expect him to debate Obama amongst a panel of media pundits who are gonna give the GOP candidate harder, more gotcha questions than Obama. Cain already proved he can’t take it.

  • cldonley

    I wish someone would explain to me why so many are hating on Perry. As it stands today, unless Cain is guilty, the only guy I’ll have to hold my nose an vote for is Romney.

  • heraklios

    While we’ve spent the past several days debating minutae of Harman Cain’s scandal, new reports have been published yesterday and today that John Boenher has agreed to new taxes as a part of the super-committee package due out this month. Why no reporting on this by Red State? It should be the headline but appears nowhere

  • benjaminz

    How can you be so certain it will be Perry vs Romney, when Perry is barely polling above Ron Paul?

  • libdestroyer

    I was far more supportive of Perry until I realized the LACK OF CHARACTER OF HIS SUPPORTERS. Now I’m completely sour on him.

    “Conservatives” that take the liberal approach to politics: attack and discredit their opponents.

  • libdestroyer

    then you’d know it’s between romney and cain.

    But since when do Perry supporters let facts get in the way of feelings? (EE you’re included in this)

  • Change Jar Conservative

    Perry has the resume that I want, he has the money that I want, and he has the plan that I want.

    He doesn’t have the momentum and he doesn’t have the marketing right now.

    Newt has the marketing and is clearly the best messenger and his plan is good, but not as good as Perry’s. He doesn’t have the resume or the money.

    Perry / Newt is probably what I want. Would love to see Newt be given charge to dismantle as many federal bureaucracies as possible.

    Romney / McDonnell is probably what I’ll get :-(

  • libdestroyer

    because facts and polling are just silly little things that get in the way.
    OF COURSE Perry will bounce back!

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I remember when they said McCain was dead too…

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    no-text

  • libdestroyer

    “how can we expect him to debate”

    I sure home your man isn’t Perry. That would be a funny joke…

  • libdestroyer

    if you want to write-off debates as not important.
    There are 3 prime-time debates during the general election. Perry would get slaughtered.

  • libdestroyer

    It is pointless to look at any polls from now on.

    I think it’s a better idea to listen to Erick Erickson tell us who will win and who won’t. After all, he’s unbiased and he’s a genius.

    Let’s not forget that Cain is “stuck on stupid” and his campaign is “over”.

  • gekster

    Look in the dictioary under squishy.
    It’s got his picture.

  • BlueFalcon

    …the “racist rock” incident? Cain was pretty quick to jump on that one.

  • heraklios

    4 years as Speaker of the House, the nation’s third-highest position? Developer of the conservative agenda from the mid 1980s through the GOP takeover of the House in 1994? Author of the Contract with America which kept government (reasonably) in check during CLinton’s years nad kept the GOP in control of Congress for 12 years?

    As far as money, I agree Newt is far behind Perry and Romney, but give him 20% in the national polls or a win in Iowa and the money will roll in at an astounding rate.

    I like Rick Perry, but I don’t see how Newt accepts second chair under him. He has far more knowledge and national experience than Perry.

  • shinglejim

    you complaining about lack of character of Perry supporters is like the pot calling the kettle black.

  • nvrepub

    nt

  • gekster

    To bad we don’t have a maroon test for this site.
    It would thin the herd a little.

  • Langley

    So you have decided that Perry is simply unacceptable based on what you perceive to be lack of character among his supporters?

    Are we electing candidates’ supporters or the candidates themselves? Every candidate has vehement supporters who prefer their guy over the rest. Every candidate has supporters who has negative opinions of other candidates who make those opinions known. Whether you agree with those opinions or not doesn’t change the fact that every candidate has such supporters.

    Does Perry have some kind of special cadre of supporters that other candidates lack?

    I am a Perry supporter by the way. I’m a fan of his because of his track record in Texas and his proposed policies that I think would be a boon for the economy. I have criticisms of other candidates too – does that make me lack character?

  • BlueFalcon

    EE has been criticizing every candidate when they’re being stupid, and their supporters are being bobble-headed Kool Aid drinkers. It was my turn last time. Now it’s your turn, and all of a sudden you’re angry.

    The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.

  • glennva

    I wanted Perry to shine. Great start of the campaign. I didn’t mind his Gardasil or Illegal immigration position; however, I minded that the only one who could explain the position well was his wife. His attack on Romney was petty and mean. Perry lost me completely right there. I almost converted 100% to Cain, but his attack on Perry is actually what disturbs me most. Newt? Man he talks well, but he is for ethanol subsidies. He is a medium government conservative, not a small government conservative.

    I now wish Palin had learned how to coherently respond to a question. Her gut instincts are great, she is mostly consistent, and she is unafraid.

    Notice, there is nothing in Romney to like! But, he is sooo much better than Obama. Just another medium government conservative.

    Hey, can I get credit for coining the term “medium government conservative”?

  • Xasteius

    I have a favorite candidate, but that means I distrust him the least.

  • gracie

    You have to factor in:

    His most excellent interviews and speeches lately showing his growing comfidence not to mention his knowledge of foreign issues…I did not know he had his ideas nailed down like he showed in Hannity interview.

    The experience with debates he will have had by then.

    But mostly how Obama has treated him personally and Texas? Do I need to reiterate closing drilling and refineries, ignoring request for federal help on the border and ignoring disaster relief for floods in the DFW area but particularly the fires in Possum Kingdom? And making him look like a messenger boy when Perry showed respect by meeting Obama’s plane in Texas at which time O refused to talk to Perry or even take his letter but instead forcing Perry to give it to an aide?

    Oh I think Perry will have plenty of energy to debate Obama.

  • BlueFalcon

    But I don’t see Perry coming back. I’ve seen come-from-behind victories, but Perry is more of a come-from -ahead defeat. Newt…. I’ve got issues with him, but I’m starting to think he’s the only R who can articulate a genuinely positive conservative message. That he has stayed above the muck has improved my opinion of him.

    But I’m still hoping one of our front-runners can get their act together (which will have to be Perry or Cain).

  • tailfins1959

    A 360 degree analysis on the race makes Cain unlikely to be the nominee. I believe Cain as president will hurt the GOP long term. The electric border fence remark has turned him into a national version of Pete Wilson. Perry and to a lesser extent Romney will help the GOP make a respectable showing among Latinos. I’m concerned Romney might give illegals a path to citizenship. A strong guest worker program WITHOUT a path to citizenship can get the Latino vote without letting the DEMs import voters. I don’t care about the scandal. Cain lost me with the electric fence crack. If he can convincing show he has made inroads with the black vote, I could change my mind.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Romney has both, Perry has both, and of the remaining candidates, Cain is the most likely to acquire an effective organization in time for the Iowa caucus (assuming that he can fix the problems that exist in his organization now). I *suppose* that Ron Paul might have an outside shot, but he didn’t connect in 2008 and I don’t see him connecting now.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    It’s been a while since anybody’s been that obvious about it. Points for chutzpah, you.

    Blam.

  • Langley

    Perry stumbled, badly, in the first three debates. That much is clear.

    He also was alive and on fire in the most recent debate. He’s on the upswing.

    People tend to forget that this is a guy who went from not running, to considering, to running for President in the span of six months while the primary campaign was already underway for the rest of the candidates who had been campaigning for a long time. Romney’s been campaigning for about six years now.

    I find the insistence that we disqualify Perry based on a few debate performances, especially when he’s shown improvement and greater campaign message discipline as time goes on, to be disingenuous.

  • Langley

    So everyone can attack Perry over a rock in Texas but Perry can’t point out Romney’s many inconsistencies?

    As to your comment that Perry can’t explain his positions: check out his recent interviews, the National Association of Manufacturers forum in Iowa, etc. He’s had a steep learning curve in debates (who could jump into a race and be prepared for nationally televized debates where you get 60 seconds to lay out positions and rebut attacks? raise your hand). However he has also shown that as he eases more into the campaign he has a strong grasp of his policy ideas.

  • drshatterhand

    His attack on Romney was mean? What are we voting in here a beauty pageant.

    I’ll give you that he hasn’t articulated his positions well, but the one candidate who has been worse at doing that is Herman Cain.

    I think the deliberate misrepresentation of Perry’s record and positions by Bachman, Romney, and Cain has been far more mean spirited, than making accurate statements about Romney’s lawn care service.

  • gekster

    Eventually going stupid does catch up to them.

  • LibertyWins

    to beat Romney.

    Now Cain’s money is gonna dry up fast.

    Perry has the most money and continues to rake it in. He will do far better in Iowa, NH, and SC than his polls suggest.

    By February, Perry will be leading the Anti-Romney crowd as the rest fade.

  • aeternalis

    Perry is apparently weak on border security, forced little girls to get a vaccine that gave them cancer in exchange for a pittance of a campaign donation, owns land that has an over-turned, painted-over rock with a word containing the n-word on it, is a crony capitalist, and is just too angry to be President of the United States.

    … according to his detractors. All of the above claims are easily handled with logic and facts. I still haven’t seen a believable argument as to why Perry is such an awful, awful man who pisses on conservative principles. And, honestly, those Perry haters that jump in with both feet for Romney the Spineless flip-flopping fish have seriously lost their way.

  • aeternalis

    Whoops, instead of “cancer” I meant “mental retardation.” Derp.

  • carolynr

    What was his exact quote…they don’t want me in Washington DC anymore than the devil wants to drink holy water.

    That is what we should be looking at. Look at how the media, including Fox has shunned Perry. It’s as if they are in league with the politicians…talk about crony capitalism….maybe we didn’t look deep enough into the fourth branch of the government…the media.

  • LibertyWins

    bridge to the Congress.

    Gingrich is a great coalition builder for getting bills passed.

  • acat

    I just don’t see them as enough to write him off.

    He needs to communicate his thoughts on immigration as a national issue more clearly, I think, but I don’t have a problem with what he’s done as Governor of Texas.

    Can he climb back in the polls? Well .. since the field is closed and the other candidates not named Mitt are blowing themselves up (Bachmann, Cain) .. the anti-Romneys had better hope so.

    Mew

  • http://www.twitter.com/AWG9_yoyo yoyo

    Newt is the smartest person in whatever room he is in. On just about anything.

    Obama [thinks he] is the smartest person in whatever room he is in. On absolutely everything.

    Like Obama, Newt would be inclined to surround himself with a bunch of Yes-[Wo]Men. Like Obama, he would be an Administration of One. Like Obama, the potential for disaster is too great to bear the risk.

  • carolynr

    calling Herman Cain a Conservative is a little much when he would only back Romney. Romney is the furthest thing from a Conservative you can get. This is like watching Coulter give up her principles for Christie…who also is not Conservative. What about Hannity…once you go down that path…you can’t rise up again and call yourself the same name. If I vote for Romney, I am no more Conservative than the man in the moon. In the case of Romney there is no daylight between him and Obama…so why even vote. Cain…that seems to be Romney’s side kick…why would you back a man that is against your principles unless you have NONE?????

  • mariagomez

    If Perry is our nominee, then I will of course vote for him. But he is not as pristine a conservative as many of his out-of-state supporters think that he is.

    Perry, like most politicians, does not necessarily appoint the most qualified person for the job. Many times it has seemed as if he appointed less qualified minorities in order to curry favor. For starters, google Elsa Murano and see how underqualified and poorly she performed as a replacement for Gates at A&M.

    Anyway, keep in mind that no politicians are perfect, including Perry.

  • drshatterhand

    with my brothers in August of ’07 when Ron Paul beat him in fundraising the previous quarter….turns out it was a huge jinx.

    We’ve see Cain surge and fade, Bachman surge and fade, Perry surge and fade, now Cain is back up there, with this scandal yet to finish playing out, and Newt appears to be making a move.

    Plenty of time for things to change. Perry may yet surge again. Who knows.

  • glennva

    So jumping into debate is hard after 10 years of being a governor? And jumping into a presidential race after never being a candidate is easy? I hold them all to the same standards. I waited weeks for Perry’s explanations. They weren’t there, maybe now they are but he lost the opportunity. Cain’s explanations of some of his policies is also slow to come — that worries me too. He started to take the opportunity this Monday to explain his positions, but stepped all over his own story. Newt doesn’t seem to have a problem explaining, and Romney just puts me to sleep with his.

    Okay, who cares about mean. The Romney charges were PETTY. Note, Santorum, and Bachman also make many petty accusations. Newt and Paul are the most immune to petty accusations.

  • acat

    Remember that Gingrich wrote the intro to Perry’s campaign book, and that the two have traded a number of campaign staff back and forth.

    There’s a definite synergy, and – where it matters to this cat – Perry strikes me as having the right temperament to hold Newt’s leash.

    Gingrich is clearly one of the brighter bulbs on the stage, very good at debate, and gifted at streamlining and dealmaking, but he’s not, again in my opinion, the one who should be on the top of the ticket.

    The two together, though …

    Mew

  • Scope

    but Perry isn’t running around whining about it. Cain is portraying himself as the victim constantly, and trying to convince voters that he is a leader at the same time.

  • defenseconservative

    You wish he were, but he will not be. That’s because, unlike Cain and your beloved Rick Perry, Gingrich is a serious presidential candidate who has substance to offer AND is a skilled debater who can defend himself in debates.

    Gingrich has a lot of baggage, that’s true – but all of it has been known for a long time. None of it is a secret. His opponents have already spent all of their ammo on him and have no more ammo. And he’s still standing strong.

    Gingrich can defeat anyone in a debate.

  • glennva

    Perry took up valuable debate time in which he could have explained his position for a petty attack. Later in the debate, he did make a good policy point and got no audience reaction because he had already lost them.

  • avagreen

    Let us hope and pray.
    Mucho.

  • acat

    of how this person has failed.

    See, so far you’ve been an anti-candi-bot, everything you’ve written has been anti-Perry, and since I don’t know you, I don’t trust you.

    Mew

  • Aaron Gardner

    I didn’t really see anything there. Mind telling us what exactly you are getting at?

  • BlueFalcon

    I googled, and don’t see the controversy. She had an impressive resume before becoming president of A&M, and her resignation had to do with what appear to be controversies internal to A&M.

    Add to that the fact that she was not appointed by Perry, she was installed by the board of regents in an 8-1 vote. So I’m kind of wondering how this is relevant to anything important in this campaign.

  • aeternalis

    Love it. Seems like a great, well-rounded ticket. It would be nice to have an intelligent Vice President again.

  • BlueFalcon

    I can’t think of a cabinet position Newt would not excel at. That pretty much means he needs to be VP.

  • Langley

    Perry didn’t do a whole lot of debating during his tenure as governor. He actually didn’t debate his Democratic opponent once in the last general election. Clearly when he was able to avoid them, he did.

    So yes, jumping into nationally televised debates wasn’t easy for the newest entrance to the field who everyone immediately attacked.

    He was able to avoid debating very often in Texas, but obviously must be able to debate during this campaign and the general. He knows this and his campaign knows this. He did show improvement in the last one and I don’t think people should write him off.

    I agree that the Romney lawn care service story was lame and initially cringed when Perry brought it up…. but he did catch Mitt in a lie (“I’ve never hired an illegal in my life!” when he knew that there was something there, even if not direct), and a priceless comment (“I can’t have illegals working here, I’m running for office for pete’s sake!”!). He kept pushing and got under Romney’s skin, and Romney acted like a baby wanting Anderson Cooper to rescue him, and touched Perry on the shoulder (no-no).

    So while the substance of the attack wasn’t really that big a deal (in my mind at least), Romney’s response to it was golden and really representative of Romney as a politician.

  • onemovoter

    He was down 20 points in a GOP primary to KBH in 2010.

    He has done the same in previous elections. The reason for that is that he takes a little bit to get going but once he does, he starts to really roll.

    The reason why Newt is gaining traction is that no one is attacking him, and Newt is smartly staying above the fray while sounding smart. But with all his baggage, most of which isn’t deserved, I don’t know if he’ll be on the short list to be the nominee or a VP.

  • Bill S

    In case you’re intelligent enough to get back on here and read the comments – I don’t take kindly to accusations of “lack of character”. If Moe hadn’t whacked you, I would have.

    Good riddance, jackwagon.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    but I don’t see what Rick Perry has to do with that.

    From wikipedia (with the usual disclaimer):

    The Texas A&M University System Board of Regents voted 8?1 in support of her ? the one opposing vote came from Gene Stallings, who voted for another unspecified candidate

    In fact, Rick Perry isn’t mentioned in the article at all. If this was some sort of smoking gun, I’d expect him to be broadly targeted.

  • lucasblack

    I understand Perry supporters pushing this line, but Newt is just as much in the mix as Perry. And if he captures the ‘not-Romney’ spot, he is going to be much harder to dislodge than Cain.

  • Langley

    Solid and succinct take down of all the “apostasies” that Perry has in his closet. It does irritate me when people rattle such things off because they are all easily dismissed with logic and facts. Unfortunately many people don’t have the willingness to listen to that.

    I have a theory with regards to why that is – Perry is a Texas governor. Bush was a Texas governor. They sound alike. While Perry is no George Bush (he flat-out rejected compassionate conservatism and has been critical of Bush’s big-government programs and spending), many people make the emotional connection of Perry-Bush without doing their homework.

    Because of this, I think people give Perry far less slack than they do to other candidates. I think if Perry says something that rubs them the wrong way, or has a policy that they don’t like, without doing a full evaluation many people are just ready to write him off because they already ding him for being “Bush-like.”

    That’s my working theory at least. People like Romney and Cain (not including this week – I mean gaffes and flip-flops) seem to have 9 lives, but Perry didn’t have that leeway upon getting in the race.

    He can still come back though. His policy plans are solid and he is getting much better at campaign discipline.

  • arcangel

    that audience was never going to applaud a hit on Romney, no matter how valid. I’m pretty sure they were bussed in from a Romney family reunion. Perry “lost” them by calling Romney out at all.

    I haven’t seen a crowd that obviously biased at a debate ever.

  • BlueFalcon

    You can always blame it on the Gardisil vaccination.

  • lucasblack

    This^
    Yea, I think Newt is much better positioned than Perry. And the money has started to flow. His name recognition is already close to 100% and he’s known. People know his negatives and his positives. Perry is in such a hole because he made such a bad first impression, he now has to spend all his $ just to get his positives out there. So he’ll spend it all and that will just bring him even with Newt.
    Feel the Newtmentum!

  • unclefred

    The people signed up for this site are political junkies. Pure and simple. We are willing to slice the meaning of the slightest misstatement one hundred different ways and pronounce foundational shifts in a candidate. We are also willing to attach nuance to circumstances when it favors our current candidate. We make up at most 10% of the voters in this country, and probably 20% of primary voters.

    For the people here Perry’s positions on instate tuition for illegals may or may not be a deal breaker for the Republican nomination, but we still see it in a far more complex way than the average voter. We are more able and willing to reconcile his positions on the issue with other positions that seem in conflict. The average primary voter is not so understanding, nor are they willing to attempt to resolve the discord they see in his policies. For them, the notion that illegals can be treated as residents and given benefits that out of state citizens are not is absurd on its face and their discord on this issue is enough to write him off.

    Any debate on the reasonableness of the voters view on this is moot. This single issue is responsible for Perry’s single digit poll numbers. Money won’t solve it. Perry has to provide an non nuanced way for people to reconcile this, and then get them to listen. Whether or not Cain weathers this storm, Perry is not getting the voters he lost back until he solves this.

  • lucasblack

    Yea, odds are that it’s going to be Romney, though I still hold out hope for Newt, but I can live with him. I really don’t expect politicians to be ‘pure’ and I could see a lot of good things happening under Romney.

  • BA Cyclone

    So everyone can attack Perry over a rock in Texas but Perry can?t point out Romney?s many inconsistencies?

    This might seem like complete nitpicking, but the angle Perry used to “attack inconsistencies” was the whole deal with him “hiring illegals” at his house.

    I mean seriously, with all this material Romney has in his political background and that’s the opening line you choose? To me that’s completely crawling out on a dead branch. High school debate team variety. Cheez whiz in a can.

    For me it isn’t that Perry is attacking Romney or not — it’s just that he can’t seem to do it very well without making himself look petty and childish. Perry has a much better resume and, frankly a better conservative record than Romney. Better ideas than Romney. But if he can’t actually attack Romney better than this, he shouldn’t. But then Perry has to sell himself and his ideas better — which has also been lackluster more often than not.

    Perry’s message control is only rivaled as the worst-possible with Herman Cain, and at least Cain usually looks cogent on a stage.

    The problem for Perry is, if it only took money and a good resume’ to get the nomination, Mitt Romney would have beat John McCain in 2008 for the nomination. There is something more to it, and Perry will have to figure this out to close the deal with voters.

  • drshatterhand

    thanks for the reminder, I couldn’t believe the crowd reaction… It was like Perry got up and endorsed Obama for reelection or something.

  • BlueFalcon

    The only people that care are already voting in the primary. For the GE, this is a non-issue. Besides, what are they going to say? “Well, Perry’s for illegal immigrants, so I’ll vote for Obama!” I think not.

    This general election will be all about the economy, and nothing but the economy.

  • westcoastpatriette

    reading his book, “Fed Up.”

    I am almost finished reading it, and it confirms my reasons for believing he is the best candidate to run on the Republican ticket next year.

    You will get the Constitutional view of a conservative who understands federalism as the book lays out the historical events that led to the tyrannical centralized federal government that we have today. And gives the real solutions for turning the mess around.

    In fact, Perry is so devoted to restoring federalism, that he donated the proceeds from the book to the Center For Tenth Amendment Studies–founded by the Texas Public Policy Foundation.

  • onemovoter

    Right after his roll out of his economic and tax plans.

    I’ve seen TV, radio,and web advertisements along with quite a few national interviews which he’s done (at least to me) extremely well with. Today he’s at WHO radio in Iowa where he’s talking directly to the callers. He also made the following admission on radio:

    “I made a huge error by using that word.” – Perry to caller on WHO radio who says Perry lost his vote with “heartless”/immigration remark.

    Looks like he finally sees that one incident is what cost him the lead. Will see if the contrition will work with voters.

  • uhangtight

    Not for Cain or against Cain.

  • retire05

    has been running for POTUS for almost six years, don’t you? I would expect anyone who has been in debates the previous campaign cycle would have it down pat by now.

    But the expression on Romney’s beet red face when Perry hit Romney with Romney’s patronage of a company that hired illegals was priceless. And the entire point of Perry’s attack was to show that Romney, who had been mercilessly going after Perry on the Texas legislature’s passing of in-state tuition for the children of illegals, was a hypocrite. If you don’t see that, it is because you don’t want to.

    And perhaps you would like to explain why Romney, who has Herman Cain nipping at his heels, has chosen to create an entire website to attack Perry, and not Cain?

    Romney is a consumate politician who learned a lot from the last go-round. He is attacking Perry, and not Cain, for a reason. Could one of them be a quid pro quo between Romney and Cain?

  • uhangtight

    You said it well, my thoughts exactly..

    I too was so hyped over Perry, but you expressed so well what occurred.

  • onemovoter

    His “insiders” see it as Perry/Cain depending on how things roll for Cain. To be honest that was a total shocker to exclude Romney.

  • branderz

    I’m so glad to see more people talking about this duo. It doesn’t matter who is the headliner because this pair is a winner. Gingrich in either seat will be a bridge to Congress, and Perry on the ticket will push Gingrich to be more conservative.

    I’m so in love with this idea. It makes me think of puppies at Christmas…. <3

  • texabama

    Most people don’t remember what they had for dinner two nights ago. They don’t remember all Newt’s negatives. Just wait until the media reminds them of all of it…and his ex-staffers get to have their say.

  • lucasblack

    I didn’t have anything specific against Perry and was quite open to his pitch when he entered the race (especially as it was on the very day that my candidate, T-Paw, dropped out.) But my reaction to him has not been good. On a personal level, I find I don’t like him. I can put up with that; I’ve certainly voted for people I didn’t like on a personal level before, but it was worse than that. His lousy debating skills added to my already existing concerns about his electability. I simply don’t trust him – I think he’s a Tom Delay type and seems far too quick to do favors for people who donate to his campaign.
    He’s not at the bottom of my list – Bachmann holds that spot and he’s also ahead of Santorum, but frankly, everyone else is ahead for me, including Johnson and even Huntsman. I just don’t like or trust the guy.

  • branderz

    n/t

  • glennva

    Don;t forget that Perry completely turned off Luntz’s group too! Most of those were open minded. Watching the reaction of his groups is always telling, especially when they are all Republicans. They usually seem honest. In an earlier debate (Perry’s first?), they thought Romney was insincere, and although they didn’t like Perry’s immigration position, they liked him. He lost this, and I don’t think he gets it back in time. I also think Perry’s back problems hindered him somehow — kept him too stiff. I noticed this from the beginning.

    Surprisingly, Cain might survive his dust up. Probably the likability factor, which he can quickly lose by continuing to attack Perry.His camp needs to SHUT UP!

  • nativetexan41

    To not vote for someone based on who is supporting them is shallow to me.
    It’s like voting on looks, personality and not what they stand for. I am voting for Perry, he has a good record in Texas and will get this country working again with his energy and tax plan.
    Go Perry!!

  • texabama

    That’s been my impression as well. Everyone keeps telling him how smart he is and that definitely has left its mark. Evidence has shown that he SAYS smart things but DOES stupid things. And that’s not just in his personal life. Pelosi/DeDe/Ryan incidents are all very recent.

  • glennva

    There seems to be an agreement not to attack each other. I noticed this. I think that Romney believes that Cain might be a good VP candidate (before possible scandal). Therefore, you don’t attack him until he becomes too big of a threat.

  • tailfins1959

    The Spanish and Portuguese language newspapers here in Massachusetts are describing Perry as “pro-Immigrant”. Perry has a real shot at 40% of the Latino vote.

  • glennva

    Amazing. Things change in a matter of hours. Cain’s press is not so negative anymore (internet and Fox news). Cain might have been telling the truth when he only knew about one settlement. Wait until Cain’s wife shows up. Might save the whole show. Interesting.

  • bzip

    Thanks for posting that.

    I truly believe if people actually research Perry with an open mind. Look at his interviews, his forum performance at Iowa (stellar performance), his 10 years of governing, his book, his entire life has been devoted to conservative principles.

  • izoneguy


    Iowa Poll: Many think Cain?s 9-9-9 plan would help them
    (But they would be wrong)

    Two-thirds of likely Iowa Republican caucusgoers earning less than $50,000 a year believe they personally would be better off or in the same situation under Herman Cain?s 9-9-9 tax plan, The Des Moines Register?s new Iowa Poll shows.

    Wrong good people of Iowa…..Under 999 you might pay more,
    unless you are in the 1%

    The bottom line: A family with an income level of $40,000 to $50,000 would pay $3,407 more a year in taxes, while families making $500,000 to $1 million a year would pay on average $80,315 less, according to the Tax Policy Center.

    Cain supporter and poll participant Joseph Sandvick, 31, of Sioux City said he hadn?t had a lot of time to review the 9-9-9 tax plan but would shift his support to another candidate if after further review he discovers his family would pay more.

    Please send this along to your friends in family in Iowa.

  • jrmax13

    BZIP wrote: “.. his entire life has been devoted to conservative principles.”
    You mean his entire life AFTER he switched from the Democrat party to the Republican party. I wonder if a lot of really young people know that Perry worked with Al Gore until he made the switch (no pun intended). So my better suggestion is for BZIP be the one that does the mind-opening for a change. Myopic, tunnel vision leads to darkness. If Perry is so great maybe we should start referring to him as “La Mesias.”

  • uhangtight

    You so sure, because, of what? In what did I say lead you to that conclusion? What dots did you connect? Or just jumping to conclusions, which seems to be so typical on the Perry.State site now a days.

    I am truly independent. I am truly a conservative. I have not seen a candidate that I believe can beat Obama. That is my only priority this election cycle. Sorry. Perry will have to debate Obama. I do not seem him capable of beating Obama. My only criteria this election cycle. He or She who attacks Obama and not fellow Republicans will peak my interest. I live in California and we do not ever get the decision of who is the Nominee. EVER.

    That being said, when I start to send my money, my decision will be made. So far zero dollars.

    Southern Democrat Flips/Flops to Republican to be elected as Govern or of Texas and everyone wants me to believe that he is more conservative than a NorthEastern Republican. LBJ Clone = NorthEastern Republican.

    Yes. Perry is LBJ. Perry = Romney and Romney = Perry.

    See my other posts regarding this election cycle.

  • uhangtight

    And, he can’t articulate this point and he will not be able to win a debate in the general against Obama. Because of is inarticulate manner.

  • BA Cyclone

    It’s not the mere fact Perry attacked Romney on the topic of immigration, it’s that he used a years-old, now-well-debunked, cheez-whiz argument of “you hired a crew that used illegals” line to attack him on that topic. My point is that with all the topics available — health care mandate, small-big-small government, pro-life-choice-moderate-life, etc etc he attacks THERE and with cheeseballs. If you attack on immigration I think you go with something intelligent and substantial, but no Perry has to play gotcha with a has-been story line.

    Personally I think it’s ridiculous wishful thinking that there is some kind of alliance between Cain and Romney. Personally, I think Romney isn’t attacking Perry because until has some better combination of organization or money (preferably gobs more of both) Cain is still not viewed as a serious contender to Romney for the nomination — ignore the polls.

    Romney sees Perry’s money + org structure and sees a strategic threat, and logically that makes sense to me…far more than some conspiracy theory.

    Yes Romney’s been running for POTUS for at least six years but that doesn’t give Perry a pass on any topic. Perry will have to bring his game up to that level to win, and so far he has not. It is up to Perry and him alone to close the deal with anti-Romney voters. If Perry can’t do it, and if Cain successfully shoots himself in both feet, Romney will be the nominee.

  • arcangel

    not much can be said (even from Perry’s mouth) to sway an opinion like yours. It’s not something anyone can disagree with, since it is your personal feelings towards Gov. Perry. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think there is anything bad about you feeling that way.

    However, what I’ve learned about politics (perhaps it’s just cynicism) is that the face of a talented politician may have very little to do with their beliefs/principles. In short… a slimy politician can be very good at convincing you he’s a “good” and trustworthy person.

    The best way I can think of to figure out a politician’s principles is their record. (This is admittedly a big disadvantage for a candidate with no record in trying to win my own vote).

    The point? Does Perry’s record reflect your principles more often than the other candidates? If not, don’t support him. But I think that’s the only way we can get to “know” a candidate without actually having personal contact.

    Out of curiosity… what leads you to the belief that he does favors for donors?

  • BA Cyclone

    Personally I’d love Cain on the ticket, but really what does Herman Cain add to a ticket other than maybe some political “sizzle”?

    The south will probably go GOP anyway.
    The black Dem vote won’t be dented unless Cain is on the top of the ticket.
    The Tea Party will probably go GOP anyway.

    Cain would likely add valuable skills in the administration no doubt, and we’d surely LOVE to see him debate Joe Biden — but those are not legitimate VP qualities.

  • BA Cyclone

    Personally I’d love Cain on the ticket, but really what does Herman Cain add to a ticket other than maybe some political “sizzle”?

    The south will probably go GOP anyway.
    The black Dem vote won’t be dented unless Cain is on the top of the ticket.
    The Tea Party will probably go GOP anyway.

    Cain would likely add valuable skills in the administration no doubt, and we’d surely LOVE to see him debate Joe Biden — but those are not legitimate VP qualities.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Switching parties is not a rare occurrence. Many Democrats and liberals get smart in their 30′s as did Perry and realize that they are in the wrong party.

    So, what else do you have against Perry?

  • BA Cyclone

    “Personally, I think Romney isn?t attacking CAIN because until has some better combination of organization or money…”

  • BA Cyclone

    “Personally, I think Romney isn?t attacking CAIN because until has some better combination of organization or money…”

  • retire05

    hardly debunked. The Boston Globe articles are still on the net along with Romney’s statements and actions when it was first reported. Romney hired a fellow churchmember who owned “Lawn Service With a Heart” (do you not see the irony in that?) to do his lawn and clean his tennis courts. In Dec. 2006, while Romney WAS STILL governor, the Globe reported the lawn service was using illegal Hondurans. A year later, after Romney had attacked Guiliani for NY City being a santuary city, and the next day, the Globe reported Romney was STILL using the same lawn service that was still using illegals.

    The hiring of illegals was against federal law in Dec. 2006 just as it is now. Romney did nothing to make sure the lawn service ended its practice of hiring illegals, and as a matter of fact, had a duty as Massachusetts’s top cop to report the lawn service to ICE. He did not do that. He cut the owner slack because of his connection to Romney’s church, and there is no way you can spin that.

    Now, if you think Mitt Romney is above “gotcha” attacks, I suggest you go to his “hate Perry” website where Romney does nothing but “gotcha” attacks on Perry. Romney needs to be held accountable for his lack of action against a fellow church member who hired illegals when he was top cop. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

  • bzip

    It appears Cain and Block can’t agree on the explanation of Cain’s China Gaffe. You couldn’t make this stuff up if you tired :-) . Just amazing

    Cain, Block have different explanations for China gaffe
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/04/cain-block-have-different-explanations-for-china-gaffe/

  • bzip

    Watchdog group files complaint against Cain campaign, senior aide

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-cain-crew-20111104,0,6799607.story?track=rss

  • uhangtight

    Exactly he is a LBJ Clone. Southern Democrat flipped to (could that officially be considered a flip/flop?) to Republican to run for Texas Governor. Wasn’t he just before that affiliated with Al-Gore???

    Accommodate and appease to get elected, sort of a do anything to get elected. This sounds so much like the complaints the Perry.bots have about Romney. Romney = Perry and Perry = Romney.

    Although, right now, Romney has handled himself far better than Perry has and i can’t help but notice the pettiness of Perry’s attacks on his opponents.

  • federalfarmer1

    Not to question chatacter, and if this question is over the line I withdraw it, but is it okay for Perry supporters to attack gop candidates and argue they should not even be supported in the general election, as streiff did with Cain? Ive seen other similar comments about Romney. Isn’t the refusal to support the potential gop nominee why paultards are banned?

    I’ve shifted to Newt and am increasingly unsettled by Perry supporters attacks on other gop candidates. Right now, he is polling badly and it would be better for the party and the fight against Obama to lower the tone of attacks. Instead, it seems as if the attacks are growing as Perry falls farther out of the race, especially around here. Is that a legitimate reason not to reconsider Perry?

  • sunshinek67

    —

  • avagreen

    Of course, I had already been suspecting this. :(
    He complains on one link that Fox wouldn’t run his focus group if it favored Obama.

    Man! How crooked is Fox?

  • Langley

    What’s so wrong with cheez-wiz and cheeseballs?

  • Langley

    This is a ridiculous argument. In the 1980s there was such a thing as Conservative Democrats in the south. Eventually they all went to the GOP as the Democrats started to shun conservative positions and the GOP started to become a viable party in the South.

    Compare Perry’s record as Governor with Romney’s. No, Perry does not equal Romney.

  • retire05

    Also, Fred Thompson came out with an article yesterday that there was a hit website directed against him in 2008. When he finally learned who it was the hired a proxy to create the website, it was a Romney operative.

    Gives a whole new demention to the Romney hit website toward Perry.

  • Langley

    See the comment I posted above. This is a stupid tack to take.

  • gekster

    In Iowa he is up to 13% from 6%.
    As seen on that bastion of conservatism, Fox.
    As Perry gets his word out, and people see he is not the man portrayed by some
    in the debates, his #s go up.
    Oh, and for you history buffs, at the same time before the 2008 election, McCain was at 13% in the polls.and holding onto 4th.

  • Langley

    Not to mention plenty of conservative Democrats in the South switched to the GOP as the Democrats shunned all conservative positions and the GOP started to become a viable party in the South.

    I swear this line of attack is the most asinine I’ve seen this election cycle.

  • mach5

    about as long as the SH allegations, it’s just not as sensational. Will be interesting to see how this is handled. Will it be the “everybody (campaigns) does it” defense?

  • mach5

    about as long as the SH allegations, it’s just not as sensational. Will be interesting to see how this is handled. Will it be the “everybody (campaigns) does it” defense?

  • avagreen
  • avagreen

    I need to leave off the /etc, I guess on the links.

    Here is the bing search on all these.
    http://www.bing.com/search?q=+Frank+Luntz+stacked+focus+groups.+&form=OSDSRC

  • tyman

    since before Perry announced. I guess everyone else wants to read it, too.

  • avagreen

    Bing search

    Bing search

    Here goes ;(

  • westcoastpatriette

    Only had to wait about a week.

  • Bill S

    were banned because they were not well-behaved participants in this community. Romney supporters almost met a similar fate in 2007/8, but we weeded enough of them out that the problem diminished. Neither action had anything to do with a refusal to support the GOP nominee.

    In case you haven’t noticed, no one is immune from the bot attacks (except maybe Huntsman). It’s going to be like this until the primaries are over, and then we’ll have to deal with the “I’m going to stay home” crowd.

  • tyman

    nt

  • center77

    if you hate perry because of his supporters, then y7ou would find cain vile. i a, not sure who you think you are fooling.

  • center77

    just said, but that he beat me too it. Perry is doing just fine, and he is showing in his interviews that he is very knowledgeable. Now I like Newt, but also understand that he has way too much baggage. At one time he had 84 counts of ethics violation levied against him, and he was the first speaker to get in trouble for it. If he ever gains real steam, he will have to face those again, and to tell you the truth, I do not think that will fly in the gen election, oddly enough, the things conservatives gets upset about, in-state, help Perry. Not only is Perry the best ant-Romney, he is the best candidate, and I cant understand the shallowness of wanting this American idol type candidate, with no record.

    Not one Perry fan is at fault when it comes to the problems they point out in other candidates, Newt made his own bed, and if he did not, the establishment would have already been pushing him, because he is the establishment or was.

  • federalfarmer1

    Perry has has quite a few ethical claims made against him my democrats in Texas that will be dredged up. I only say I was supporting Newt because it would be asked, not because I need somebody to tell me again all the democratic attacks on Newt. You forgot that he wanted to make old people eat dog food.

    But my point is just that explicitly stating one will not voter the leading gop candidate in the election should be out of bounds for conservatives. Cain was vociferously attacked for ambiguous comments about supporting Perry in the general.

  • sunshinek67

    Or spell check, the coherence of your threads can get lost. Distracting. Perry gave Romney a straight smackdown in Vegas, loved it and hope Perry supporters see more. I also loved loved loved the NH speech, he actually has a personality.

  • federalfarmer1

    That Romney is so liberal that we should stay home if nominated? Or Cain is so sleazy I would rather have four more years of Obama? Or Perry is so hopped up on tardasil and merck $ that we’d be better off losing? Or that Newt was so horrible to his cancer stricken wife that I can’t in good consciousness pull the lever for him?

    I don’t see how any of these arguments are good for the cause, and find it distressing. It’s turning into a four person race, all of which are far better than Obama. I don’t understand what’s going on at all here lately and had to stop lurking.

  • sunshinek67

    Repeated mantra these days, polls in Oct 2007 showed Giuliani at 30% and McCain around 13%. Now, these polls are indicative of nothing but a snap shot in time. The higher Gingrich numbers go up, as they are very fluid and emotionally driven, the more we will be revisiting all of his same tired old stories, Tiffany’s, mismanagement of personal finances, etc. It’s just a matter of time before he gets back under the microscope. Happens to all candidates that reach the top tier. Perry was besieged, probably rightfully so, can’t get the nomination without proper vetting.

    Problem with your theory, u, is that Governor Perry has a substantial number of supporters, many of whom are very wealthy. His money is going to help him last longer than you think. Who knows, maybe the same Vegas Perry will show up again in the next debate and put his detractors on the floor like a mop. I sure hope so, I thoroughly enjoyed that straight smack down of Mitt Romney, and enjoyed his swipe at Michele Bachmann as well. Neither Romney or Bachmann have any credibility when it comes to border security and dealing with the illegal immigrant problem, which is a Federal Government failure. He is a better candidate than you or the other Perry haters think.

  • sunshinek67

    The upper echelons have adhered to the divided country, elections won in the middle mentality. Maybe they make more money by promoting a centrist agenda. They sure love Mitt Romney, and apparently they have gotten the memo that Cain will be a VP choice, he is becoming quite the regular on their network. Oh, I know I posted recently that I am going to stop watching. But I cannot help myself, got to see what the opposition is saying, I used to watch CNN for that!

    I refuse to watch Fox & Friends though, their vitriol against Rick Perry is offensive. They have become an extended tentacle to the Romney compound, brainwashed like the Stepford Wives.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Even though I would most likely be cut, it would be worth it.

  • windwaker24

    I was literally screaming at the TV yesterday when did the interview with King. When they were talking about the fence, he never explains that it is stupid to build a fence in a 1200-mile river! Also, we, as conservatives, don’t promote the Kelo decision of taking property from citizens (he would get a lot of points for saying that). He always tends to talk in broad strokes. The fact the conservatives are equating work visas with amensty, means he is not explaining it right or enough. I know what a work visa is and does (I tried to work in Ireland when I was 21, but changed my mind. I’ve also worked with several Malaysians last year who obtained one to come to this country) , but not everyone does and he needs to get out and explain it thoroughly as it relates to bringing these people out of the shadows and getting them paying taxes.

    I’m still for Perry. In fact, he is the only one left that I will vote for. But he needs to get it together and stop with this timid act. I’ve seen videos of this guy on fire. Where is that guy now?

  • windwaker24

    I was 10 years old when he was the Speaker of the House. I was 14 when the Clinton scandal broke. I actually know nothing about Newt except that he cheated on his two wives who were dying. That’s sick enough in my book. In the primary, he will not get my vote. I could possibly hold my nose and vote for him in the general. Depends on what else comes up about him.

  • sunshinek67

    I believe he went down in the ABC/WaPo too. Jennifer Rubin needs to get busy to turn this around!

  • sterling2

    Sorry about this but I have to make this experament. I registerd and a note in my mail said I was now an accepted member and could post. Well, since then I have tried 4 times and gotten nowhere. If this works my troubles are over–here’s hoping

  • jakeofalltrades

    Welcome aboard. As a fellow noobie, I guess you can sit with me at the lunch table, if you want.

  • gekster

    no question is dumb (sorry),
    and not all answers are right.

    Welcome to Red State. :)

  • mine

    I’m so over the nasty comments that is being directed at all the candidates. The one winning out of this is Obama. We tear down opposing Republicans as it will help our favored candidate. Of course it will not. It brings us all down. We all feel agreived for the insults directed at our candidate and we should make sure we are not part of it. I think many candidates are suffering in the polls because of themselves and their supporters being unnecessarily nasty.

  • txpat

    No text

  • don12345

    Romney has just released his bold and smart plan to make us solvent with 500 billion in cuts by 2016. He’s showing that he’s willing to put his reelection on the line to get the job done. If he can’t do it by 2016, you’ll know, unlike Obama who always says you have to wait until after his reelection to know if it will work. Obama and his team couldn’t even cut 1 dollar in spending, and Romney has a plan that could garner the support needed for 500 billion in major cuts. His most ambitious move is to cut off funding for Planned Parenthood and their killing baby cohorts.

    If this isn’t a sign that he’s going to give the Tea Party everything they want, I don’t know what it. Romney even turned the Ryan plan into a plan that will work to reign in government spending and make health care affordable for all. We’re tired of funding other people’s expenses and this is a major step forward.

    Romney is the only one bold enough and innovative enough to offer real specifics in cutting government. I know. I was surprised too.

  • wbf

    Apparently, Herman Cain closed a plant in Newton, Iowa and sent their jobs to Mexico. He continues to make money from Whirlpool but the town has never recovered.”

    http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/11/03/iowa-congressman-says-look-at-herman-cains-past-at-whirlpool/

  • don12345

    If it is true that Romney believed the word of a fellow Christian, shame on him, but how many of us would do the same thing. The illegal loving Saenz claimed that all of his workers were legal, and Romney believed him. Romney needs to not be so naive and stop believing that people of faith won’t lie. Wolves in sheep’s clothing can be found in every neighborhood and local church. Some of the worst scoundrels have taken advantage of people, because of the blinding effect people in the same church have on others. If Romney grew up in the bad part of town, he wouldn’t be so naive.

  • wbf

    Kathie Obrodavich’s article makes sense to me.

    I am just reading articles out of Iowa this morning.
    http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/11/03/humors-like-crack-for-politicians-addictive-and-dangerous/?odyssey=obinsite

  • nathanalbright

    I registered a while ago, but just found out today I could post, after after days of frustration.

  • sunshinek67

    Common thread: folks lost jobs. Governor Perry has created jobs under his tenure of the 2nd largest US economy.

  • sunshinek67

    Perry fires back that who is Romney to be lecturing him, a border state Governor for 10 years that has actually had to deal with the Federal Government’s failure to secure the border when it was Romney himself that got into a snag hiring a company that was known to have illegals. It’s fair game. The real magnet for illegals is gainful employment, NOT instate tuition fees. Romney is a hypocrite~

  • jaykali

    I am glad to see he’s recovered. I mean I guess I don’t really have to decide until my state’s primary anyway and by then it’s already over probably since we as a nation have decide to let 4/5 states determine elections.

    I feel pretty good ab the Republican’s chances this time around. I think even a Republican nobody loves McCain could win in an election like this one just bc I think the prevailing winds are ‘throw the bum out’. A lot of conservatives are much more pessimistic than this but I think we underestimate the American middle’s disposition isn’t ideological, it’s pragmatic and it is willing to try somebody new when they aren’t happy with the guy in the office. I don’t glorify them as like more evolved beings like some do, but I don’t think the middle are dumb dumbs either, I think they will flock to the Republican in mass.

  • jaykali

    This is too big

  • thisisme7

    that you try to insult me while you can’t type one coherent sentence. Bet your candidate was Herman! How’s that working out for ya? LOL!!!

  • jamethai

    ??????<a href="http://www.thaichopper.ibuy.co.th"?? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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