Poll Junkies: Please Check Out This Diary-Review of 2004


McCain/Palin are still in the pole position in this race.

How Much Should We Trust Polls?

Sept. 20, 2008

Summary: On November 1, 2004, the day before the election, polls showed Kerry winning comfortably. The polls in 2004 all over-sampled Democratic voters in every single battleground state. There seem to be a significant percentage of people who vote Republican but either don’t like talking to pollsters or don’t have time to talk to pollsters.

Obama should listen to the “hand-wringers” in his party. Any state where polls show him with a lead of 1% to 4% should be considered a toss-up at best, or, more likely (due to the Bradley effect) “leaning McCain”.

From Rolling Stone Magazine (June, 2006):

On the evening of the [2004] vote, reporters at each of the major networks were briefed by pollsters at 7:54 p.m. Kerry, they were informed, had an insurmountable lead and would win by a rout: at least 309 electoral votes to Bush’s 174, with fifty-five too close to call. In London, Prime Minister Tony Blair went to bed contemplating his relationship with President-elect Kerry.

As the last polling stations closed on the West Coast, exit polls showed Kerry ahead in ten of eleven battleground states — including commanding leads in Ohio and Florida — and winning by a million and a half votes nationally. The exit polls even showed Kerry breathing down Bush’s neck in supposed GOP strongholds Virginia and North Carolina. Against these numbers, the statistical likelihood of Bush winning was less than one in 450,000. ”Either the exit polls, by and large, are completely wrong,” a Fox News analyst declared, ”or George Bush loses.”

But as the evening progressed, official tallies began to show … disparities — as much as 9.5 percent — with the exit polls. In ten of the eleven battleground states, the tallied margins departed from what the polls had predicted. In every case, the shift favored Bush. Based on exit polls, CNN had predicted Kerry defeating Bush in Ohio by a margin of 4.2 percentage points. Instead, election results showed Bush winning the state by 2.5 percent. Bush also tallied 6.5 percent more than the polls had predicted in Pennsylvania, and 4.9 percent more in Florida.


From Ruy Texeira’s blog (11/1/2004):

Final Pre-election Poll Analysis

By Alan Abramowitz

  1. The National Polls

In the 12 most recent national polls listed on pollingreport.com, among likely voters, Bush is leading in 7 polls, Kerry in 2, and 3 are tied. Average support was 48.2 percent for Bush, 46.7 percent for Kerry, and 0.8 percent for Nader. In the 7 polls that provide results for registered voters, however, Kerry is leading in 4, Bush in 1, and 2 are tied. Average support was 47.0 percent for Kerry, 46.7 percent for Bush, and 0.9 percent for Nader.
Bottom line: Even in the samples of likely voters, Bush is well below the 50 percent mark generally needed by an incumbent. In fact, when Gallup allocates the undecided vote, their likely voter sample goes from a 49-47 Bush lead to a 49-49 tie. In the broader samples of registered voters, Bush is actually trailing in most of the recent polls. With a very high turnout expected tomorrow, the registered voter samples are probably more representative of the actual electorate than the likely voter samples.

  1. The Four Major Battleground States

In Florida, there have been 11 polls since October 15. Bush led in 5, Kerry led in 5, and 1 was tied. Average support was 47.5 percent for Bush, 46.5 percent for Kerry, and 1.2 percent for Nader. Turnout in the early voting has been enormous, with a clear advantage for Democrats. Expect a huge turnout tomorrow as well that will put this state in the Kerry column.
In Ohio, there have been 11 polls since October 15. Kerry led in 7, Bush led in 3, and 1 was tied. Average support was 47.2 percent for Bush and 48.3 percent for Kerry. Ralph Nader is not on the ballot. Turnout is going to be enormous and two federal judges ruled this morning that Republican political operatives cannot challenge voters in minority precincts. That was Karl Rove’s last gasp in Ohio. The Buckeye state will go Democratic this year and no Republican has ever won a presidential election without carrying Ohio.
In Pennsylvania, there have been 11 polls since October 15. Kerry led in 8, Bush led in 2 and 1 was tied. Average support was 46.8 percent for Bush and 48.7 percent for Kerry. Ralph Nader is not on the ballot. Pennsylvania looks solid for Kerry.

Finally, in Michigan, there have been 5 polls since October 15, including only the most recent release of the Mitchell tracking poll. Kerry led in all 5 polls. Average support was 44.2 percent for Bush, 47.2 percent for Kerry, and 1.0 percent for Nader. Michigan also looks solid for Kerry.
Bottom line: George Bush’s situation in all four of these key battleground states is dire. His support is well below 50 percent in all of them and he is currently trailing John Kerry in 3 of the 4. A clean sweep of all four states by John Kerry is a distinct possibility.

Posted by rteixeira on November 1, 2004 12:40 PM | Permalink

Conclusion: McCain is not in bad shape. I just got done reviewing the accuracy of polls taken immediately before the election in 2000 and I found similar discrepancies. That case is not an analogous one, however, as those who were old enough to vote then may remember. Al Gore set off his media-bomb on the Friday before the election: the revelation that his campaign had been sitting on for months that Bush had a DUI arrest back in the 1970’s which had not been disclosed. This revelation significantly drove down Bush’s poll numbers. We need to be ready for the Dem’s media-bombs this time around. They seem to focus on personal/character issues. Especially those with a sex-scandal tinge (Mark Foley/Ted Haggard).

So be vigilant. Donate $20-$200 to McCain/Palin today. We need to keep BHO and the other jerk from taking over the country.

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136 Comments Leave a comment

Very Good!!!! Combined with this article I posted

PaRep Saturday, September 20th at 10:28AM EDT (link)

How do I edit my diary?

Nobama Saturday, September 20th at 10:38AM EDT (link)

I lost my paragraph breaks for some reason and I didn’t catch it until after I posted the diary/blog.

The Romney Revolution has already begun. Only Mitt Romney can bring sanity back to Washington.

 
 

Great reading this!

LisaDe Saturday, September 20th at 10:55AM EDT (link)

I truly believe that half of the dem crazies feel the need to boast of their support for Obama, but when the curtain closes it will be a different story. I’d bet the farm that even Hillary will go McCain! On top of that, most of his supporters will miss the bus!

Or by election Day

PaRep Saturday, September 20th at 11:10AM EDT (link)

Be thrown under it by “THE CHOSEN ONE”

 
 

My name is IBleedRed, and I'm a Poll Junkie.

IBleedRed Saturday, September 20th at 11:16AM EDT (link)

Good points.
We still have a long way to go in this race. With debates (including the VP debate too), any october surprises, the market continuing to recover… anything could still happen.

The edit button should be in the upper right corner

Vegas_Rick Saturday, September 20th at 2:26PM EDT (link)

If not, try logging out and logging back in, sometimes that brings back the edit button.

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

 
 

One more point:

Nobama Saturday, September 20th at 3:22PM EDT (link)

Every major news source had called the New Hampshire primary for Barry on January 6, 2008, one day before the actual voting.

Barry’s lead was between 7 and 10 over Hillary.

Barry lost New Hampshire 39% to 37%. He didn’t even ask for a recount (perhaps he should have; after all, democrats were involved).

I am encouraged by polls which show McCain within 3% in New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Iowa, New Mexico, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

If recent history is any guide, Barry polls better among “phone voters” than he does among ACTUAL VOTERS.

The Romney Revolution has already begun. Only Mitt Romney can bring sanity back to Washington.

 

Is this the BEST and most IMPORTANT blog at Redstate this year? maybe

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 3:40PM EDT (link)

I re-posted it on the frontpage at R408

more later

http://race42008.com/2008/09/20/devine-gamecockstradamass-memory-not-enough-read-this/

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

 

GC HIGHLY RECOS and asks all to do so AND

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 3:43PM EDT (link)

am sending to all my friends and asking them to do so.

This blog puts meat on the bones of all my history justified optimism and I think its important, not to make us complacently lazy, but rather, to give us the confidence in the American people that they DO reject known libs every time.

more later

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

Nobama, you have made my year! - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 3:43PM EDT (link)

5

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

 
 

test

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 4:01PM EDT (link)

Redstate

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

 

GREAT stuff, Nobama...

ChattDawg Saturday, September 20th at 4:22PM EDT (link)

Thanks for the pick-me-up as we head into debate 1 week…

Dick Morris has even more encouraging news on Newsmax.com…looking mighty RED!

http://www.newsmax.com/morris/dickmorrisstatemap/2008/09/19/132493.html

“In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem — government IS the problem…” Ronald Wilson Reagan, January 20, 1981.

 

Please PROMOTE TO FRONT PAGE with this new title (with nobama's permission):

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 4:58PM EDT (link)

Methadone for Poll Junkies

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

Page not found 404

PaRep Saturday, September 20th at 5:06PM EDT (link)

But I saw that before & the only thing I would say is, It was from early last week

 
 

ANYONE AGREE THIS BELONGS ON THE FRONT PAGE?

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 5:15PM EDT (link)

5

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

 

YES I DO <NT>

PaRep Saturday, September 20th at 5:20PM EDT (link)

thx, but use reply to this, and DOES ANYONE ON THIS CITE HAVE CONVERSATIONS ANYMORE?

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 5:36PM EDT (link)

or do you just post blogs and gaze at navels?

young punks

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

 
 

Some of the Polls are skewed anyway.

Steph C Saturday, September 20th at 5:47PM EDT (link)

To have an accurate poll you have to have equal or close to equal numbers of each group sampled. The CBS poll, for sure, is heavily skewed with Democrats, then Independents, then Republicans.

A full 43% of the sample is Democrat, yet, Obama gets only a 49% to McCain’s 44%. All things considered that’s not good for Obama. Some of the others don’t break down their numbers by party ID.

Either way, expect another contested election. Whether they lose by a small or large margin, Democrats are sore losers.

Good review, Nobama. Thanks.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

 

THX, we have Nobama in the top 10, but when I say FRONTPAGE, I mean

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 5:54PM EDT (link)

on the left! more needed

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

Still can't really converse, GC,

Achance Saturday, September 20th at 5:57PM EDT (link)

except sometimes in the middle of the night. You never know if your comment is going to post. And if it does post, it might be instantaneous or it might take 15 minutes, or it might sit there with your machine hung up for 15 minutes before it gives you a 500 error.

There can’t be much of a spontaneous colloquy like we all used to have if you have to write everything in Word and copy it in or do a copy so if you get a 500, you haven’t lost the content. Helluva time for the best “amateur” conservative site on the web to go tango uniform!

In Vino Veritas

3.0

Putter Saturday, September 20th at 5:59PM EDT (link)

I think it is an issue of site speed. I post and then check back a few minutes later. It will get cozy again in time.

Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies…

ok, I can't argue with that Ac or putter, but

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 6:07PM EDT (link)

I miss you guys

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

 
 
 
 

Good cautions

Dan McLaughlin Saturday, September 20th at 8:18PM EDT (link)

But careful poll-watchers knew who was going to win. RealClearPolitics and Daly Thoughts both correctly called 49 states (the only one they got wrong was Wisconsin, which Kerry won by the narrowest margin of any state).

“No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong.” - Winston Churchill

 

Great Blog

pwest Saturday, September 20th at 8:34PM EDT (link)

I’d been wondering if someone had compaired McCain’s polling with that of Pres. Bush’s. I too believe McCain’s in better shape than the polls suggest; I also believe Obama knows it that is why he’s been hitting hard recently.

I saw were Rassmusen had Obama within 2 of Indiana. He’s is a likely voter poll, but does anyone, I mean even Obama supporters, really believe O will win in Indiana.

Pam

 

Great Blog

pwest Saturday, September 20th at 8:34PM EDT (link)

I’d been wondering if someone had compaired McCain’s polling with that of Pres. Bush’s. I too believe McCain’s in better shape than the polls suggest; I also believe Obama knows it that is why he’s been hitting hard recently.

I saw were Rassmusen had Obama within 2 of Indiana. His is a likely voter poll, but does anyone, I mean even Obama supporters, really believe O will win in Indiana.

Pam

 

Recommended

OccamsRazor Saturday, September 20th at 8:48PM EDT (link)

Only because I like to write. In writing, it’s ALWAYS important to remember the audience. I also took stats and am very familiar with the old saying ‘lies, damn lies, and statistics’.

With the media the way it is…’enjoy reality.

Pardon

OccamsRazor Saturday, September 20th at 8:50PM EDT (link)

Language. :| I’m not certain how to remove that.

 
 

Nobama! notice how I got your ass above even me?-nt

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 8:53PM EDT (link)

5

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

Pardon

OccamsRazor Saturday, September 20th at 8:54PM EDT (link)

Language. :| I’m not certain how to remove that.

chuckle

OccamsRazor Saturday, September 20th at 9:03PM EDT (link)

I recollect a physicist who once published a paper in New Scientist….with ‘much to say’.

That's Mighty Nice of you GC, Also

PaRep Saturday, September 20th at 9:06PM EDT (link)

Checkout this site!!!

They just updated their Map

http://election08.cs.uiuc.edu/

Thanks Keystoner, and the message I am sending is to the powers that be

Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, September 20th at 9:19PM EDT (link)

will check out the map

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

Here's a ray of hope.

Flagstaff Saturday, September 20th at 10:11PM EDT (link)

I have found that even when I get a 500 error after hitting “post comment,” the comment IS posted when I look for it. Sometimes it might take a few minutes.

But the downside is that it can take minutes for the 500 error to appear in the first place, and until it does you don’t have any idea what is going on. It seems to be a little bit better recently.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

Why do you think it is so important?

Flagstaff Saturday, September 20th at 10:28PM EDT (link)

Interesting and informative? Definitely. Prescriptive for The Obama? That too. Contains an important warning? Yes, indeed.

We need to be ready for the Dem’s media-bombs this time around.

I think they are being sent early because they want to prevent a Republican Palin-drome. That’s an election where we beat them coming and going.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

But didn't I hear someplace

Flagstaff Saturday, September 20th at 10:39PM EDT (link)

that Bush won because of vote fraud and Supreme Court interference in the political process?

I thought so.

And now you’re predicting more of the same old “business as usual.”

(-.^)

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

5....we are disabled without speed

$peciallist Sunday, September 21st at 12:03AM EDT (link)

when you say, they "got them right" you mean that their LAST POLL out of hundreds

Mike gamecock DeVine Sunday, September 21st at 12:15AM EDT (link)

got them right

so therefore, these non-last polls are crap

the valuable people are those that know what WINS ELECTIONS

me

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

Thanks, Gamecock

Nobama Sunday, September 21st at 1:13AM EDT (link)

You won my respect for your early and enthusiastic support of Romney and the social conservative issues that he championed.

In my mind, this election boils down to one important question: do we want a war hero in the White House who has “street cred” with the soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen out there on the front lines of the war on terrorists or do we want a rookie in the White House who feels more comfortable in a turban than in a business suit with a flag pin in the lapel?

This is not a year when we can put an inexperienced rookie in the White House. Everything that Barry says about Sarah Palin bounces off of her and sticks to him like glue. He is not ready to be president. He has to grow up first.

The Romney Revolution has already begun. Only Mitt Romney can bring sanity back to Washington.

Flagstaff, here's why I think its so important

Mike gamecock DeVine Sunday, September 21st at 12:36PM EDT (link)

To refute many of the poll drive mostly yutes nervous nellies here whose history began the day they were born that variously tell us that to win we have to follow msm between election polls telling us to be moderate on this and that despite the Reagan landslides and the Newt takeover.

These between election polls are what get just elected as conservatives in DC all nervous two days after beating a libe when polls say they don’t want what they just voted for. Bull

This blog puts meat on the bones of all my history justified optimism and I think its important, not to make us complacently lazy, but rather, to give us the confidence in the American people that they DO reject known libs every time, and that when we expose them or let them expose themselves and offer the unabashed, unapologetic Reaganite (see Palin)conservative alternative we win.

We can be confident that the American people will get attentive after 3 yrs and 9 months of living lives and notice the lib abd reject the lib.

That these msm poll cycles are the same essentially every year.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

It's true that many polls oversample Democrates, BUT

red_oakster Sunday, September 21st at 2:22PM EDT (link)

the important takeaway from the past ten days is that McCain really lacks a persuasive “change” message when it comes to the economic crisis.

His populism is vapid, and McCain’s declining poll numbers show that voters aren’t buying it. It’s like a role reversal. McCain’s specific support and articulation of why we needed the surge clobbered Obama’s weasel words on Iraq.

On the economy, McCain has been trying to mix outrage and generalities and he sounds no better than Obama’s platitudes.

This is a big problem, and thus far I have not seen any evidence that McCain has figured it out.

I think you are mistaking Obama for McCain...

JadedByPolitics Sunday, September 21st at 3:20PM EDT (link)

McCain’s message is not Change it is Reform….and on that he the Gov. are doing just fine.

Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy

I agree 100%.

Nobama Sunday, September 21st at 5:33PM EDT (link)

And thank you for hitting the nail on the head.

I’m worried that Barry O. might win simply by remaining silent on issues that working class voters who love freedom and fairness care about.

Issues like: affirmative action (Barry loves it), partial-birth abortion (Barry has consistently been on the wrong side of history on this issue), and gay marriage (Barry supports gay marriage by opposing Prop. 8 in California).

Furthermore, Barry’s support for free health care for the poor and the repeal of Bush’s tax cuts will cripple an already weak economy.

If Barry gets in, our prosperity and economic independence go out.

Finally, Barry lacks the cajones to lead the U.S. Armed Forces. No soldier would feel comfortable having a commander-in-chief with no military experience.

The Romney Revolution has already begun. Only Mitt Romney can bring sanity back to Washington.

Wow! Thanks!

Nobama Sunday, September 21st at 5:39PM EDT (link)

I gotta get better at html. That would make my blogs more user-friendly.

The Romney Revolution has already begun. Only Mitt Romney can bring sanity back to Washington.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

This may be emotionally satisfying, but

Ed54 Monday, September 22nd at 9:24AM EDT (link)

there are signifigant problems with the underlying analysis.

First, it mixes apples with oranges. The Rolling Stone focuses mainly on exit polls. Those are a totally different methodology from pre-election polls. You cannot draw conclusions from exit poll failures and extend them to pre-election polling. Two different animals.

Second, Texiera’s blog explicitly states that the LV polls correctly predicted that Bush would win. He goes on to make a personal prediciton that the RV polls, which showed Kerry up, would be more accurate. He was wrong, but that doesn’t mean the pollsters were. Those they predicted were likely to vote did in fact vote the way they predicted.

Third, the battleground polls and results in 2004 were very close, well within the margin of error. Every poll includes an MOE, for good reason; the pollsters are telling you that within the MOE, the results are just as likely to be wrong as they are right. So what those battleground polls really said then, and are saying now, is “too close to call.” That means exactly that: too close to call.

We poll junkies like to ignore the MOE when the results are tight. But the reality is, if the margin is within the MOE, the poll results really are too close to call. If a poll shows Obama up by 2%, then McCain could just as easily be up by 2%. The converse is also true; a poll showing McCain up by 2% could just as easily be wrong. And looking at multiple polls or a “poll of polls” does not predictably reduce the MOE. Note that RCP does not tell you the MOE of the RCP average. That’s because it isn’t known, so the average is just a guess. And guesses are as likely to wrong as they are to be right.

Bottom line, the battleground states are battlegrounds because they are usually close. As long as the polls all fall within the MOE, as they are very likely to do for the rest of this campaign, there is no real reliable way to predict who will win. Therefore, until McCain exceeds the MOE in a particular BG state, we need to assume we are losing and fight accordingly.

“If all men were just, there would be no need of valor.”
- Agesilaus

NOPE Sorry the Bradley effect will

PaRep Monday, September 22nd at 9:39AM EDT (link)

DESTROY Obama, No one who I know that is a Rep./Conservative answers those polling firms that do polling when they come home from work they just want to spend time with their Wife/GF Husband/BF, family & friends & or work inside the house or outside cutting grass trimming hedges/Bushes what have ya, You have the GUILTY WHITE PEOPLE who tell pollsters they are voting for the Black candidate & then vote for his opponent, & most of the undecided aren’t going to vote for Obama if they are STILL undecided about him after all the Media coverage/LOVEIN

Gamecock....here is a map that should make you happy....

Attack Mode Monday, September 22nd at 9:55AM EDT (link)

Photobucket

I made this map based on the historical voting of each state since 1944. I modified a few do to historical trends of flipping. This is my prediction for McCain/Palin

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

The Bradley effect was 26 years ago

Ed54 Monday, September 22nd at 10:53AM EDT (link)

American attitudes on race have changed a lot since then. Kind of a slender reed on which to hang our hopes.

As for the “everybody I know” statistics, suffice to say simply that anecdotal evidence is obviously inferior to blind polling controlled for bias.

The Kos kids are great at coming up with rationalizations to explain away every unfavorable poll. Conservatives should not go down the same path. Stick to empirical data and don’t try to second guess the results.

“If all men were just, there would be no need of valor.”
- Agesilaus

UMMM You might want to take that Argument

PaRep Monday, September 22nd at 11:03AM EDT (link)

Up with Michael Steele when he ran for Senator of Virginia in 06

Well said.

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Monday, September 22nd at 11:03AM EDT (link)

Put another way:

If you’re the one explaining, you’ve already lost.

I try to remember that when I get bad news.

Democrats' views on "race" haven't changed though

Neil Stevens Monday, September 22nd at 11:17AM EDT (link)

So why should their voting patterns have changed?

Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Battleground tracking poll

PaRep Monday, September 22nd at 2:54PM EDT (link)

UMMM, never heard of him

Ed54 Monday, September 22nd at 4:45PM EDT (link)

Is he related to the Michael Steele who ran for a Senate seat in MARYLAND in 2006?

“If all men were just, there would be no need of valor.”
- Agesilaus

sorry wrong state Brain Cramp

PaRep Monday, September 22nd at 4:58PM EDT (link)

Mayor ‘General” Dinkins of N.Y.C. to was leading in the last polling even ahead in exit polling & lost To Rudy

 
 
 

Rasmussen swing state Polling

PaRep Monday, September 22nd at 5:08PM EDT (link)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publiccontent/politics/election20082/2008presidentialelection/foxrasmussenpolling/foxrasmussenswingstatepollingseptember21_2008

Why is Obama doing better than McGovern?

David123 Monday, September 22nd at 9:57PM EDT (link)

Obama is very far to the left of McGovern, and McGovern only carried one state.

Obama is so far left that McGovern seems more like McCain than Obama.

As young men McCain and McGovern both risked their lives defending America by flying through flak-filled enemy skies.
As a young man Obama was … a community organizer.

Neither McCain nor McGovern spent 20 years going to a church where the pastor curses America. Obama did.

Neither McCain nor McGovern launched his political career with a terrorist who steps on the American flag. Obama did.

Why aren’t patriotic liberals overwhelmingly supporting McCain?

David123

I'll field that one. I hope you read this fairly

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Monday, September 22nd at 10:39PM EDT (link)

I love this country every bit as much as any of you do. I simply believe that Barack Obama will be better for this country, both on substance and on policy. You guys will dogpile me for saying it, but I don’t give a hoot.

It’s policy, it’s focus, it’s tone. The fact that Senator Obama didn’t serve in the military is something I note, but it’s hardly dispositive. I come from a military family, and that matters to me. It matters to my father, who served in Vietnam. He’s supporting Obama too.

We just don’t agree with you on where this country should go. It isn’t a question of who’s more patriotic. It isn’t a question of any of that. Rank and file Democrats disagree with rank and file Republicans on some of the most fundamental questions of what government means, what it should do, and how we should accomplish these things.

You make too much, I think, of guilt by association. You’re entitled to your own standards on the company people should keep. Personally? I have friends who have made choices I find abhorrent. Why do I accept them as they are? Because there are other aspects of their personalities that merit forgiveness.

Patriotism doesn’t inevitably make one a Republican. Some here at RedState seem to think it does. This foolishness repels a certain slice of voters, and not only Democrats.

My father spent time in Vietnam serving his country and he absolutely hates you folks for how so many of you try to own patriotism. I do not share his hate, but I do understand it. Too often patriotic fervor is conflated with Republicanism. Too often the moonbat nutjobs on the left are conflated with the rest of my party.

And yes, we do this to you at times. We conflate some of the wingnuts on the Right with the rest of your party. And it ain’t right. I post here at RedState, in small part, to put a human face on your friends across the aisle. We are countrymen! This matters more to me than most any disagreement on policy. I love this country and the fact that it allows and indeed demands such vocal disagreements. I lament the fact that some seem to think one must hate America to vote for Barack Obama.

You’ve made up your mind as to who Barack Obama really is, and you’re entitled to your opinion. Just understand you’re making every bit as subjective assessment as those who confuse you so. You don’t see what they see. You’re focusing on personality, and remarkably many Obama supporters are not.

Please try to understand that the lens through which you are judging us is distorting that which you observe.

I don't think you have to hate America to vote for Obama

JSobieski Monday, September 22nd at 10:59PM EDT (link)

but you have to admit that the people who do hate America are NOT going to vote for McCain, while some will vote for Obama.

I live in Michigan. The Reagan Democrats here who constitute the swing voters are lefties on economic issues, but they love the country—more than they love the union.

Ask the code-pink types who they are going to vote for. At least 50% will vote for Obama, the rest will vote Nader.


Thank you, of course

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Monday, September 22nd at 11:08PM EDT (link)

Your posts are consistently thoughtful, which I appreciate.

I don’t really trouble myself much with the rationale people I wouldn’t give the time of day. Seriously, I do not give a crap what Code Pink thinks. They’re a very marginal (and might I add, small) group. They have their views and their issues and they’re free to agitate for them. Great. Good for them. Doesn’t mean I have to listen to ‘em.

Your party must include groups you find odious. It’s too large not to. Do you spend a lot of time mulling that over? Or is it simply background noise that has very little to do with why you vote the way you vote, or how you self-identify?

I’m consistently flabbergasted how the most vehement blogges, either side of the aisle, view the other sides. I just don’t get it. I don’t think I ever will. Too many people would rather caricature their opponents and deal with that instead of what’s real.

We’ve also elevated elections above governing. All of us. That’s sick and frightening. I understand that one has to win before they can govern. That doesn’t mean that we should spend half of a presidential term focusing on the next guy/gal.

JSobieski, my opinion is informed by what this country needs and who I think is most likely to get us there. I don’t give extreme or fringe groups the time of day. They don’t deserve it. It cheapens us, all of us, to focus on such people when the challenges we face are so great.

Your Last Sentence

whatifidontwanna Monday, September 22nd at 11:15PM EDT (link)

Should be posted at the Daily Kos… becaue I for one am tired of being called an ignorant redneck inbred simply because I don’t believe that Universal Healthcare, judge-made laws, and bureaucrats living in Northern Virginia and Southern Maryland running our lives is a good thing.

And here’s something y’all will never understand. We understand in big cities that government has a role to play, and it’s a much larger necessary evil than in what “your side” simply cast aside as “fly over country, and naive rubes too busy sloppin the hogs to know better.”

Barack Obama is ONLY about personality, not policy. He hasn’t been selling his programs AT ALL… it’s amazing you could “type” that with a straight face.

Hans, I agree to a large amount

kyle8 Monday, September 22nd at 11:46PM EDT (link)

of what you are saying about the political fighting, mudslinging and demonization.

But, although I take our side to task for some people who go too far, I still see the left as worse, A WHOLE lot worse.

Sure we have some crazy sites like Free Republic, but no one goes there. On the other hand Kos and Huffpo, which are nothing but beacons of hate and intolerance, are inhabited by movers and shakers in the Democratic party. They have legislators posting.

Also, the left has ALWAYS been this way. I remember for the last thirty or so years hearing from big time Democrats some of the most hateful accusations.
Republicans want to destroy the environment! Republicans want to put blacks in chains, Republicans want grandma to eat dong food. Republicans want to burn churches, cause wars, and institute a theocracy!

How can you discuss, reason, or compromise in good faith with people who say things like that in order to get elected?

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

That's easy to explain, harder to do

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Monday, September 22nd at 11:59PM EDT (link)

I’d suggest you try to do what I’m doing, in your own way. You try to find sane people with whom you disagree and try to sort things out. To the extent that’s possible, anyway.

Do business with the sane ones and in so doing you marginalize the crazies. It may be electorally useful to conflate the nuts of either party with their rank and file, but it is toxic to actually governing. Again, this is applicable across the board.

We are countrymen, and altogether too many of us forget that those ties that bind us together are fare more durable than the crap that divides us. We’ve elevated tribalism above almost everything else.

I’d rather have a beer with an honest Republican who can tell me what he wants to do than have that same beer with a Democrat who’d spend that time telling me how much Republicans suck. Disagreements over policy are fine. Those things matter, but at least they’re substantive.

And yes, there are people, even at Daily Kos, who reject the filth at which you rightfully recoil. They just ain’t a majority there. They probably never will be. Such is life.

How do you do business with folks who’ll say anything to get elected? I dunno. I’ll let you know when I figure that out, or when I find a candidate who doesn’t do that. Both of the current nominees have turned on a dime when it has suited them, and if we’re honest with ourselves we’ll admit that.

We just accept it because we want to win. I wasn’t happy when Obama backed off from public financing or reversed himself on the FISA compromise. I’ll admit it. Surely you noticed when Senator McCain started talking up regulation of financial transactions or an enforcement first model to immigration reform.

These people are politicians. With very few, if any, exceptions they will say or do most anything they must to win. It is very foolish indeed to place them on a pedastal.

I don't think the fringe on the left is that small

JSobieski Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:01AM EDT (link)

Something around 25% of the rabid left thinks George Bush purposely let 9/11 happen, or conversely, actively conspired to make it happen.

There is a fringe on the right, but they pretty much keep hidden. The fringe of the left, because they are not subject to negative press, actually do stick out their heads and do all sorts of public things.

The bottom line question is this:

Do you think the world is better off having the U.S. in it (warts and all) or not?

Rev. Wright would say no.
Many people marching in so called peace rallies would say no.

Your typical Michigan democrat would say yes absolutely. However, I am not so sure about some of the other states.

Bottom Line: There are nuts on both sides, but the there is no comparison between the Moveon.org/Dailykos/ACORN types on the left and anything prominent on the right.

There isn’t.

William F. Buckley took out the John Birch society and did the conservative movement a huge favor.


Too bad about your dad.

Tbone Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:03AM EDT (link)

A lot came back disallusioned. Unfortunately, some directed their bad feelings at the good side and not the bad liberal left wingers who whined us out of the Viet Nam making your father’s service and over 50,000 lives sacrificed worth nothing and millions of S E Asians slaughtered.

Too bad you haven’t caught on to that reality. You seem destined to perpetuate it.

I pity you and I pity this Country if your kind ever comes to absolute power.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

I agree that on the beer drinking criterion, its the

JSobieski Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:08AM EDT (link)

person, not the politics that matter most.

I have plenty of democrats who are friends, and quite a few are fairly hardcore lefties. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t trust their character (I do doubt their competence and judgement in certain contexts however).

Look, we are all voting what we think is best for the country. Many of us on this site have extremely mixed feelings about McCain. Part of me does not want to reward his past political behavior with the Presidency. However, I have to vote for what I believe to be the best course of action for the country.

My family has seen socialism in action. They risked everything they had to get out. I have nowhere else to go if the US succumbs to Post-modern Euro-socialism.

The left is on the whole more rabid because they are subject to less scrutiny. I new plenty of hard core commies in college. Few people challenged them. Now I on the otherhand was challenged repeatedly.

Over time such a process makes it less likely to have insane nuts on the right. They are out there, but not in large numbers and if they stay hidden.


Pardon me?

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:10AM EDT (link)

You want to make my father curse you say Jane Fonda’s name. You want to make my father curse you remind him it was the hippies who spit at (though thankfully never ON) him. He can be plenty angry at the left.

He sees the sins of the right as worse.

As to “absolute power” and all that? If I wanted my side to run things without consulting you, well, why the heck am I bothering to post at RedState. I value the other side. I value your perspective. I want a government that does, as much as it can, reflect our views.

This isn’t some kind of kumbaya moment, either. I just hate to see large swaths of the electorate marginalized, even if it’s temporary.

Stop pitying me, looking down on me, or seeing me as your enemy. I am not your enemy, I deserve no pity, and I accept no condescension. You fundamentally misunderstand who I am or what I want for this country and you do so simply because you see me as the existential “other.”

Seriously, get over that. I don’t eat babies and I don’t want a command economy.

never had any close freinds who were lefties

kyle8 Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:12AM EDT (link)

Whenever people start spouting off silly left wing jargon, I just kinda cut them off in my mind from getting too close. I can’t feel comfortable with people who think that I am evil, and want to silence me, and tax me to death.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

We live in a republic, and the fact that 20%

JSobieski Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:14AM EDT (link)

is insane is something you should be troubled about.

This country, and the Western world generally, are starting to think so little of our civilization that many won’t lift a finger to defend it.

If the 20% becomes 35%, I’m not sure self-governance will be possible. At 51%, it becomes disaster.


The world is better for our being here

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:16AM EDT (link)

And I’m proud to be an American. But that doesn’t excuse our failings and we should never stop trying to be better than we are.

I reject and outright mock Reverend Wright’s worldview. I shouldn’t have to, but I will take the time to do it. I won’t ask that you do something equivalent because I don’t default to believing that you subscribe to extreme reactionary views. You strike me as a reasonable man.

Is the fringe of the left larger? Maybe so. We’re generally younger than you folks, and youth tends towards excess zeal.

And for the record? Every single time I’ve dealt with a “truther” (which is twice) I’ve called them out, at length for their insanity. I shouldn’t have to explain to an engineer how jet fuel doesn’t have to burn at a temperature high enough to melt steel or titanium. It just has to buckle. I’m a freaking law student and I know that.

I’ve called out fruitbats on my side of the aisle. I always have and I always will.

I never associated you with Rev. Wright

JSobieski Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:25AM EDT (link)

I do question Obama’s association with Rev. Wright.

I also challenge you to find someone on the right who is comparable.

Rush Limbaugh?
Ronald Reagan?
William F. Buckley?

I find Obama to be signficantly more to the left than the UAW Reagan democrats that we have here in Michigan.

In contrast, McCain is closer to the center than the average Republican voter in a Red state.

That is why McCain will win, and Obama will be off the national stage in a couple of months.


Han and Kyle? May I offer a thought for consideration?

stang Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:26AM EDT (link)

This excerpt from a recent blog:

It is first important to distinguish between the hardcore liberal elite and your son’s teacher or your left-leaning neighbor with whom you have pleasant conversations about football and golf. The former we will call the Liberal Elite – Democrats in power, the media, the ACLU, the Daily Kos, NARAL, moveon.org, etc. – and they think and function idealistically. They range from socialist to Marxist in their economic policies, reject God and absolute morality, despise American hegemony, and every move they make in the public eye is an exercise in deception to convince normal citizens to grant them power.

The latter group of left-leaning folks we will call Citizen Liberals, and they are the vast majority of voters who call themselves “Democrats” and “Independents.” These folks actually want good things to happen in the public square. They are decent people.

Do either of you think this is an accurate observation?

This has been an interesting discussion and I hope you all don’t mind my joining.

“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence.”

John Locke

my leftie friends know I can out debate them

JSobieski Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:30AM EDT (link)

One accuses me of using “jedi mind tricks” to always make it sound like I am right.

Of course, even now, they just can’t believe that I am conservative. To them it is unimaginable how someone who is smart could be so politically wrong.

When they ask me the mirroring question, I say that I don’t think they are that smart.

These are friendships or associations based on history. My knowledge of them as people preceded the my knowledge of their politics. The one thing I would say about the three of them is that politics is not their first concern. They are not reading the daily kos and posting comments at 1:30am


An interesting dichotomy

Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:34AM EDT (link)

“Rush Limbaugh? Ronald Reagan? William F. Buckley?”

Those people aren’t ministers tending their flocks. For the record, I’m a fan of William F. Buckley (for the most part, though with some qualifications).

I do not feel particularly interested in trying to find a minister who similarly tended to a Republican nominee. It is late, and I have to get up in the morning to prepare for my trip on Wednesday. This doesn’t mean that I cannot do so, but it is late.

As to who wins and who loses in November? I rather like my side’s chances, but really, we’ll see soon enough. I promise to remain civil with you regardless of the outcome. I’m honestly sure you’ll do the same. Have a good evening, J.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Nobama...good job...long and skinny threads are a good thing!!

$peciallist Tuesday, September 23rd at 12:36AM EDT (link)

Rasmussen Tied again 48% to 48%

PaRep Tuesday, September 23rd at 8:43AM EDT (link)

Never accused you of being uncivil

JSobieski Tuesday, September 23rd at 9:21AM EDT (link)

Civility is something best done, not talked about.

Mention civility when someone acts an a non-civil manner.

Lack of civility is not the primary problem with today’s politics. Its the lack of substance and specificity.

The media doesn’t even try to convey information.

In 1994, Clinton wanted to reduce the rate of funding increases for Medicare from 8% to 6% in order to help pay for Clinton Care.

In 1995, Gingrich was destroyed in the press for “cutting Medicare” when he proposed reducing the rate of increase from 8% to 6%.

You say the problem is one of civility.

I say the problem is one of INFORMATION. We had a MSM that was totally unwilling to put the Medicare funding into perspective.

Until we resolve that issue, opportunistic politicians will be quite crass, but that is hardly the primary problem.


 
 

HEY !!!!!!!! McCain UP 3 in new Michigan Poll

PaRep Tuesday, September 23rd at 6:00PM EDT (link)

MRG Poll: McCain Up Three In Michigan

http://tinyurl.com/529y5j

I think it's relatively simple.

Flagstaff Tuesday, September 23rd at 8:04PM EDT (link)

The electorate has changed since 1972. Not as well educated, and not as well read. More superficial, less interested in the details. Those who have gone through college have been indoctrinated into the liberal world-view. They tend more towards believing what they are told by their news providers.

More importantly, the press today is predominantly an advocacy machine, not a news machine. Opinion is reported as if it were news sometimes, and when real news is reported, it’s often slanted to support one side (Obama’s) and damage McCain’s. In 1972, even though Walter Cronkite had his agenda, the other networks and the written press hadn’t yet become quite so biased, and they probably painted more accurate pictures of both Nixon and McGovern than today’s NYT does of Obama and McCain.

Entertainment shows (The View) spend an inordinate amount of time discussing political topics, skewed about 5 to 1 in favor of the liberal viewpoint. If you haven’t done so, compare the treatment given to Obama to that given to McCain. One was polite, the other rude, and that is the kindest thing I can say about it.

I’d give the change in the electorate and the change in the press about equal weight.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

 
 

Attn poll junkies

redneck_hippie Tuesday, September 23rd at 8:15PM EDT (link)

I heard a radio report today that stated “polls” are showing NO MOVEMENT of the Hillary supporters, to Obama.

I repeat. NO MOVEMENT since June.

Anyone know which poll(s) that report could be from?

Another data point for Barry demise scenario.

“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.

Remember NY-23.

 

Attn poll junkies

redneck_hippie Tuesday, September 23rd at 8:18PM EDT (link)

I heard a radio report today that stated “polls” are showing NO MOVEMENT of the Hillary supporters, to Obama.

I repeat. NO MOVEMENT since June.

Anyone know which poll(s) that report could be from?

Another data point for Barry demise scenario.

“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.

Remember NY-23.

 

Saw it today Here it is

PaRep Tuesday, September 23rd at 8:22PM EDT (link)

Attn poll junkies

redneck_hippie Tuesday, September 23rd at 8:24PM EDT (link)

I heard a radio report today that stated “polls” are showing NO MOVEMENT of the Hillary supporters, to Obama.

I repeat. NO MOVEMENT since June.

Anyone know which poll(s) that report could be from?

Another data point for Barry demise scenario.

“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.

Remember NY-23.

Oh, I googled, it was AP.

redneck_hippie Tuesday, September 23rd at 8:29PM EDT (link)

H/T hotair story.

Sorry for Kowalski’ed threadjacks and stuttering.

“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.

Remember NY-23.

We are also 36 years

Flagstaff Tuesday, September 23rd at 8:52PM EDT (link)

farther into this than we were in 1972.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

To Han, on patriotism, voting

David123 Tuesday, September 23rd at 9:41PM EDT (link)

Han, a late response since I didn’t see your reply until now.

I regard George McGovern as a patriotic American. I do question Barack Obama’s patriotism – attending a church for 20 years where the pastor cursed America makes him very suspect. On top of that there is his relationship with Ayers. So I do question whether Barack Obama loves this country.

I do think that policy-wise, McCain will be far better on war on terror than Obama, the most important issue for me. I don’t agree with McCain on all issues, but I think his character and patriotism is strong.

If you disagree with McCain on many issues, perhaps you should ticket split. In 2009 we’ll probably see a Dem congress, and that will act as a check on McCain policy-wise, and vice versa. In fact the best thing for America might well be a McCain presidency + a Democratic congress that isn’t too obstructionist, at least on war on terror. However, Obama plus a Dem congress would tend to reinforce each others errors.

I don’t question your patriotism, but I simply wonder why you would vote for Obama since he is SO far left. It seems to me that McCain is a better choice for liberals as well as conservatives.

David123

I was curious...

DrOldSchool Wednesday, September 24th at 1:20AM EDT (link)

Why Obama was running ads during the Hannity program here in Kalamazoo. It’s clearly playing for the center, using the head of a state gun organization, saying (my paraphrase) ‘Obama won’t take our guns, and he’ll give us $1,000 too’! I figured he wasn’t trying to show off with this ad buy, but was searching for some help. Perhaps that poll is a sign?

But I’m sure my colleagues and the Kos Kids in my class, who insist I am wrong about why polling has flaws since, as one put it today “Obama is ahead, which is all that matters”, will be fawning over this national poll from ABC

“Is it a third party we need, or is it a new and revitalized second party, raising a banner of no pale pastels, but bold colors which make it unmistakably clear where we stand on all of the issues troubling the people?”

- Ronald Reagan, 1975 Speech to CPAC

 
 
 
 
 

Cain/Palin Winning over Ind.

PaRep Wednesday, September 24th at 6:53PM EDT (link)

Good article on Wizbang about Obama's "weight" problem

PaRep Wednesday, September 24th at 9:09PM EDT (link)

Another Poll with McCain/Palin up

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 7:39AM EDT (link)

That poll is outdated

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 7:59AM EDT (link)

Sept 15-21. It means nothing now.

How about this One TROLL!!

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 8:07AM EDT (link)
 
 

Rasmussen has Obama leading in NC

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 8:14AM EDT (link)

49-47

Rasmussenreports.com

 

Thanks for Not answering

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 8:23AM EDT (link)

But by Not answering you’ve answered Me

 

Battleground Poll

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 8:31AM EDT (link)

The Battleground Poll is the most favorable to Republicans this cycle, so if you wan’t to believe their party ID weighting system, go right ahead. They are out on an island with their results, but feel free to celebrate.

Column from Dick Morris

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 8:35AM EDT (link)

You think Obama will win North Carolina?

Dave_in_Fla Thursday, September 25th at 8:37AM EDT (link)

If Obama wins NC, then he will also win Virginia, Florida and the rest of the swing states. It will be proof that our nation does in fact want to become socialist.

But that is the only way he will win North Carolina. That state has not become a hotbed of liberalism inside the south.

Obama has to move the needle nationally, not just pick off a state or two here and there. Attitudes exist regionally and nationally in this country, not state by state.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” - Joe McCarthy

 
 
 

Rasmussen has Obama up 3 nationally

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 8:40AM EDT (link)

Somebody will look like a fool on election day. But keep cherrypicking polls…

 

Rasmussen has Obama up 3 nationally

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 8:41AM EDT (link)

Somebody will look like a fool on election day. But keep cherrypicking polls…

There's a Reply to This button at the bottom of posts, bullfrog.

Moe Lane Thursday, September 25th at 8:47AM EDT (link)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 8:50AM EDT (link)

Ed Goeas A Conservative Pollster & Celinda Lake a Liberal Pollster do the Poll!!!

So you think Lake allows Goeas to cook the Poll Right
Or is Lake really & Conservative Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Children

TROLL/MORON ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pa, he is trying to upset you

Dave_in_Fla Thursday, September 25th at 8:55AM EDT (link)

Don’t feed into it. :)

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” - Joe McCarthy

Rasmussen shows a big move nationally

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 8:56AM EDT (link)

If you see the internals and day-to-day results, then it’s obvious the race is starting to break wide open.

And if the suspension of the mccain campaign plays out like it seems to be playing out, then there will be even more cratering, imo.

I Don't "cherrypick" polls TROLL

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 8:59AM EDT (link)

It is a State by State election, BUT of course being a Liberal Troll from Kos/DU you probably haven’t figured that out yet.

And watch the Bradley effect happen & then Liberals like yourself can blame Diebold for screwing Obambi over, & a HUGE majority of the undecideds go for McCain

Thank you. Carry on. <NT>

Moe Lane Thursday, September 25th at 9:01AM EDT (link)

Yep, you are right Bullfrog

Dave_in_Fla Thursday, September 25th at 9:02AM EDT (link)

This thing is over, Obama should be up 5, 6 maybe even 10 by next week.

And may I be the first to say, “Thank God!” Now I can spend my time cleaning out the garage and quit stressing about polls and who is going to win this.

I might even check out the Tivo recording of the speech President Kerry made last night.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” - Joe McCarthy

he's Not suceeding dave <NT>

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 9:06AM EDT (link)

No, the Battleground poll is not cooked

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 9:09AM EDT (link)

But their party weighting system is different, and they’ll either be geniuses or idiots on election night.

Well do you Think Celinda Lake is letting

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 9:14AM EDT (link)

Ed Goeas do it on purpose or , Maybe this is what they came up with together for their Polling, I think it’s time for your Milk & Cookie break

If you're depending on the "bradley effect"

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 9:17AM EDT (link)

then stick the fork in mccain right now.

next you’ll say “the only poll that matters is on election day”

No You can stick a fork in Ear Nestor Obambi

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 9:21AM EDT (link)

Juan Williams Has said that Obambi has to be up 5% to 8% on election to win, You do know who Juan Williams is Trollboy don’t you?? PSSSSSSSSSST he is a LIBERAL

Also Google Racism in Presidential Election plays role

Lake and Goeas have a different philosophy

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 9:23AM EDT (link)

They don’t believe party ID will change much from one election to the next. If they’re right and all these other pollsters are wrong, then in 2012, theirs will be the first poll everyone will check in the morning.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Also It looks like Paulson a Democrat doesn't trust Obambi

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 9:25AM EDT (link)

To do any good with the Bailout, I guess telling fellow Dems that you will be there if needed & vote present isn’t much help, He gets to sit at the Little Kids table

http://tinyurl.com/3mnq3s

Moe, Erick, Dan Somebody TROLL ALERT !!<NT>

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 9:28AM EDT (link)

You’re Boring !!!

You don’t even know what you’re talking about

We just agree to disagree

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Thursday, September 25th at 9:28AM EDT (link)

I think I’m right, but I hope you are.

You'll forgive us if we rely on that election day "poll"

SG_Lominac Thursday, September 25th at 9:30AM EDT (link)

That was the one that worked best against Mr. Kerry.

What the hell is going on out here? - Vince Lombardi

OH I see so NOW you're a Rep. RIGHT??

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 9:33AM EDT (link)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Pa, you missed some amunition

Dave_in_Fla Thursday, September 25th at 9:37AM EDT (link)

You forgot the LA Times poll that shows Obama’s lead increasing, while McCain support among Independents has risen from 8 point to 13 points.

Do the math. Only one way to get such a result.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” - Joe McCarthy

That's true, BUT it's a target rich Enviroment

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 9:44AM EDT (link)

with Bullfrog

PaRep, you're calling in an airstrike against your own position.

Moe Lane Thursday, September 25th at 9:46AM EDT (link)

Besides, I don’t toss liberals for being liberals. I’ll toss ‘em for being schmucks, for lying about why they’re here, for not learning the Posting Rules or formatting properly, and for not loving the new Battlestar Galactica with all their heart{*}… but this guy’s just throwing polls around. So what?

Moe Lane

{*}Well… no, but I want to.

Sorry Don't Ban me I like the Old BG OOPS

PaRep Thursday, September 25th at 9:50AM EDT (link)

LOL!!!

O.K. But he is now (TRYING) to pass himself of as a Rep.

Battleground tracking Poll

PaRep Friday, September 26th at 7:49AM EDT (link)

SG LOMINAC, You HIT THE NAIL on the ELECTION DAY poll as only one of those regular polls.

Rod_Patrick Friday, September 26th at 8:17AM EDT (link)

Obama and MSM will cry “foul” if he loses the presidential race just because of that one-day election poll result in November 4, 2008.

He will ask:

What about those hundreds of polls since June that showed that I, Obama the Great, would have won the election? Some “affirmative action” points must be given to me for being the 1st black presidential candidate. It’s not fair.

MSM shall again console Obama by saying that Obama is cheated!

Rasmussen shows Obama up 5 nationally

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Friday, September 26th at 8:34AM EDT (link)

rasmussenreports.com

Rasmussen shows Obama up 5 nationally

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Friday, September 26th at 8:36AM EDT (link)

rasmussenreports.com

Genius is back

PaRep Friday, September 26th at 8:41AM EDT (link)

& Zogby has McCain/Palin up 2 & Gallup has it tied & your Favorite battleground Poll has McCain’Palin up 2 also, Rasmussen is always 3 to 4 days late

GOOD TRY THOUGH!!!!

I’LL GIVE YOU AN E FOR EFFORT !!!

Genius is back

PaRep Friday, September 26th at 8:42AM EDT (link)

& Zogby has McCain/Palin up 2 & Gallup has it tied & your Favorite battleground Poll has McCain’Palin up 2 also, Rasmussen is always 3 to 4 days late

GOOD TRY THOUGH!!!!

I’LL GIVE YOU AN E FOR EFFORT !!!

The cat's out of the bag Rod

SG_Lominac Friday, September 26th at 8:43AM EDT (link)

Though Hannity says 2008 will be known as the year that journalism died, I point to 2000 as the year that even casual observers noted liberal media bias and that includes polling as a means to suppress the Republican vote. They’re still using that preposterous dem oversampled ABC News/Washington Post poll for the Real Clear Politics national poll average.

What the hell is going on out here? - Vince Lombardi

bullfrog, we ban for mobying. (Read this.)

Moe Lane Friday, September 26th at 8:44AM EDT (link)

I’ll cut you some slack on this once, but I need you to apologize for lying to the board about your party affiliation. Next post, please.

I don't think I ever gave my party affilliation

bullfrogpollwatcherrebecca1265 Friday, September 26th at 8:57AM EDT (link)

I’m an Independent, and I apoligize if I was supposed to state that immediately. Btw, I’m voting for McCain but don’t think he has a chance of winning now.

And I believe you can learn a lot from the polls and they do accurately guage public opinion when taken as a whole.

Exit polls are a different matter, imo.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Leaders??

StrongProud Friday, September 26th at 8:58AM EDT (link)

“True leaders” step up without “Bias” on
any cause that supports the welfare and safety of Americans-politics aside! BHO
doesn’t want McCain to cancel this debate
because he knows he can’t walk in the
foot steps of this great American Hero!
Foreign affairs experience from BHO is
like asking Rev. Wright to support the
“majority of Americans”! BHO knows McCain will win and wants to get this over quickly so he can get to the economy just before the election! BHO
though is only fooling himself to think
he can control that subject! This democratic congress has the worst performance that I have ever seen! Look
at their poll ratings! Reid and Pelosi
couldn’t lead a “horse to water”! Washington desperately need “reformer’s” that are not afraid to go against the tide to get things done for “all” Americans, not just a “select” few! A Bipartisan effort is critically needed to cure this economic mess!Independent and veteran for McCain/Palin!

You Sound Desperate

Swamp_Yankee Friday, September 26th at 8:59AM EDT (link)

Democrats know that Obama is a fraud and the closer people look at him the less likely he is to win. So I see your point. Calling the race now is fitting for a paniced person. God forbid, what Obam is going ot look like after three debates.

Actually, rebecca1265/pollwatcher/bullfrog, you're a retread...

Moe Lane Friday, September 26th at 9:01AM EDT (link)

…and I’ve been waiting fairly patiently for you to tell me a lie.

Bye-bye.

BUH-BYE !!!!<NT>

PaRep Friday, September 26th at 9:02AM EDT (link)

We've read this a million times in the blogosphere. I won't work this time.

Rod_Patrick Friday, September 26th at 9:03AM EDT (link)

What you’re saying is not helping.

Yep pollwatcher is over

PaRep Friday, September 26th at 9:04AM EDT (link)

on AoSHQ pulling the same stuff, Yesterday at least

Now that it's done, could we maybe let this thread die?

Moe Lane Friday, September 26th at 9:09AM EDT (link)

Comment on some new posts, people. :)

No problem Moe

PaRep Friday, September 26th at 9:15AM EDT (link)

I was just putting new poll Numbers here

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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