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Vouchers and Charter Schools

Not the Be-All, End-All

By: itsonlywords (Diary)  |  November 24th, 2008 at 08:02 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Conservative Republicans tout school choice – school vouchers and charter schools – as the means to liberate low and moderate income families from failing public schools. While I don’t disagree that vouchers and charter school offer an excellent short term solution, the question is, will they hurt more than they help?


School choice, as promoted by conservatives, is likely to draw off the most motivated families and students from our public schools. In other words, it will help students whose family situations already give them the highest likelihood for success, even in below average schools; families who already understand the importance of a good education and doing your homework every day. They inculcate values such as hard work and personal responsibility in their children.

Left behind will be the children who need excellent schools the most; those whose families are broken beyond repair or otherwise dysfunctional, whose parents not only don’t care if their children do their homework…they don’t even know if their children have homework. These are the parents who tell the teachers, “Don’t call me; I don’t want to get involved.”

Once those motivated families leave the public schools how likely is it that those parents will be activists for excellent public schools? How likely is it that the remaining families will step up to fill in the volunteer spots left vacant? How likely is it that the remaining students will step up and be role models and leaders?

Our long term path to educational success is to identify and recruit conservative candidates for school boards. We need school board members who are committed to implementing strong, a traditional curriculum. It’s time to stop using classrooms as laboratories and students as lab rats. If liberal educators want to test untried educational theories, let them ask for volunteers, but keep them out of the public school classrooms.

Our long term path to educational success is to motivate bright, young conservatives to choose careers in education at every level, both K through 12 and at the college level and especially as professors of education at our colleges and universities. We need also to motivate conservatives to choose careers as authors of textbooks in every subject area.

The path back to educational excellence is long. We must be resolved in our determination. We must be prepared to fight and fight hard with every fair means at our disposal, as the liberals now in control of our educational system will fight every step we try to take. We must start today if we are to save our public schools and secure an informed electorate.

Cross-posted at It’s Only Words

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COMMENTS

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  • Uma_Richie

    Just to add to your argument:

    My sister-in-law spent two years teaching at a charter school. She quit because she perceived pressure to inflate progress reports. Charter schools are supposed to be synonymous with educational success, but hers was failing to produce the fantastic statistics or even anecdotal evidence that make for great movies. The fact is, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him/her drink.

  • mbecker908

    We lock the best and the brightest and the most motivated into mediocrity (at best) so we can be “fair” to the unmotivated and those who just don’t give a damn.

    Ok.

    • paulag1955

      I’m not against vouchers and charter schools at all. But I think that the concerns I brought up are valid; I think they could be unintended consequences.

      My main concern, though, is that we not get locked into a place where we thing that vouchers and charter schools are the solution. If we ever get to a point where they are a widely available option, I don’t want people from the other side telling us to shut up because we got what we wanted and I don’t want people from our side thinking the problem is solved.

      I think they are a stop gap solution.

  • Hermes

    For the record, I support vouchers, charter schools, and privatization of the education system. The public school system worked until about 1965 or so. After that, it collapsed. Today public education is just a blackhole for tax dollars.

    Having said that, I think you are addressing a reasonable concern. The problem is that there is not only very little motivation for conservative leaning educators to enter the public school system, there are also actual roadblocks to them doing so. In my state, teacher pay in public schools dwarfs what most private schools offer, so actual compensation isn’t the issue. The problem is, as you pointed out, the serious issue of student discipline and parental involvement. You can only suspend a kid so many times before you have to give up on them. If the parents aren’t around or don’t give a hoot, what can you do?

    Additionally, most public school teachers in my area are more than slightly left-leaning. That includes principals and administrators who are involved in the hiring process. I’m not saying that it is as difficult for a conservative to be hired in the public school system as it is at the university level, but it is starting down that road. Administrators seem to want compliance with standardized test scores and that’s about it. Any variance from preparing kids for those tests is considered unacceptable and rapidly dealt with. I agree that wresting back control of the school boards is an important step, but how do we unload the baggage that is the liberal education establishment?

  • IJB

    Anything short of that is tinkering at the edges – it’s rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

    In point of fact, our ‘best & brightest’ shouldn’t be in public schools in the first place – they should be in private educational institutions where learning is the first (and pretty much only) goal, and where the zombies of “diversity” & “political correctness” are left far, far behind.

    • paulag1955

      n/t

      • DC71

        I’ve written about this before a few times on this board. We have a voucher program that works really well here in DC. But, it works because it is limited in scope. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to extend it to every DC student because of capacity issues at most schools. Not everyone can go to the school they want because those schools just don’t have the capacity to handle them. It is pretty difficult for schools to expand capacity with land prices in DC being out of control, and many schools pinched by existing neighborhoods. So, if you can help people get into solid private schools and the decent DC public schools, I’m fully for that. But, you need to be sure that you improve the schools for the other students.

        I agree with mbecker that we shouldn’t hurt everyone to help the unmotivated if we were talking about high school kids, or kids who have some rational capacity to control their actions. But for the children in a failing elementary schools, can we really punish the 7 year old child with bad parents? That’s where I get concerned about kids being left behind in bad public schools.

        • mbecker908

          Count in!

          • IJB
          • tcgeol

            I get sick when I see conservatives or libertarians supporting public education as it currently exists. One of the most un-Constitutional power grabs ever, and a number of Republicans still think its great. Not only that, but it is a huge entitlement program that has caught on among those who say that they are against entitlements. Sorry, but your children do not deserve a great education if you don’t give it to them. Education is the responsibility of the parents – period.

            Children not only don’t learn anything useful for the most part, but they are brainwashed in an anti-American, anti-God, moral relativist manner. A few good teachers will help a tiny bit here and there (and my appreciation to you all who are conservative teachers), but the public school system is dead. Nothing good can come from it.

          • paulag1955

            n/t

          • tcgeol

            There is no such thing as “punishing” a child by not providing a certain amount of governmental education. Parents have the responsibility to raise their own children and provide for them. That includes education.

            The government has no business in the educational field whatsoever, at least if you care what the Constitution says. The 9th and 10th Amendments seem pretty clear on that.

          • paulag1955

            For the Federal Gov’t to be involved.

            Our educational system worked best when schools and school districts were small. I don’t think we’ve even gained economy of scale by consolidating school districts. They seem to burn through money pretty fast with poor results to show for it.

          • JSobieski

            So if we are going to have a federal dept of education, lets have refundable tax credits at the federal level to support school choice

          • stang

            See PATCO/Ronald Reagan 1981. Until then, their (teacher and public employee unions) political clout will enable them to fend off all political attempts to make such fundamental and necessary, IMO, changes in the structure of our educational and public institutions.

            It is worth noting that public employee unions are a relatively new phenomenem. Prior to 1959, nearly all public employee unions were prohibited by law.

          • paulag1955

            They still were?

          • charliehall

            Conservatives today usually oppose refundable tax credits!

          • JSobieski

            McCain’s health care plan (which was the most conservative economic policy in the campaign) used a refundable tax credit to allow families to purchase coverage outside the confines of their employer.

            Instead of giving someone a voucher, you give them a refundable tax credit.

          • Diogenes314

            Not him-the dead one. Executive Order 10988 was his payback for union support in the 1960 election he stol.. I mean won. Before that there was no collective bargaining against the public welfare. To quote Coolidge-’There is no right to strike against the public safety by anybody, anywhere, any time’. And actually all that is really needed is to remove the anti-trust exemptions from unions. If buisnesses can’t form monopolies, why should public ‘servants’ be allowed to?

            As far as removing government from the education buisness-I’m with you. Good luck getting that done. In The Mean Time-why not give poor parents with kids stuck in failing schools a chance to better their children’s lives?

          • paulag1955

            I’m not against vouchers or charter schools. I just think they’re a stopgap measure.

          • KyleH

            We will never get the perfect solution. Conservatives have to fight for whatever we can get, no matter how small a step.

  • itrytobenice

    I didn’t realize that anyone was purporting that vouchers and charter schools were going to solve all the problems of education.

    I thought all along that we were just saying that it was a common sense alternative that should be exploited.

    Are you saying that we shouldn’t do something that won’t perfectly address the needs of every student? If not, what’s the point of your diary?

    • Diogenes314

      …is that it wold poison The Worm in the Apple (<<

      • Herodotus

        .

        • paulag1955

          n/t

          • paulag1955

            How many times do I have to say that I’m not against school choice?!? I’m just saying that I never hear conservatives talk about controlling school boards as a way to improve education. I’m just saying that there may be unintended consequences to school choice. I’m just saying school choice isn’t a long term solution to securing an informed electorate. That’s all I’m saying.

  • charliehall

    Ok, here is the situation on the ground where I live: Bronx, NY.

    A few miles from me is one of the best public high schools in the United States: Bronx High School of Science. It has about 2,500 students and the per pupil cost was around $11,000 a few years ago (the most recent statistics I could find).

    Closer are four private high schools; two independent and two religious. Tuitions range from the low 20s to the low 30s. All four together do not have as many students as Bronx Science. All four offer outstanding academics, as does Bronx Science.

    How large a voucher or tax credit is deserved? If it is the same as the cost of Bronx Science, it will do poor children no good whatsoever. (I might add that Bronx Science has selective admissions and is probably harder to get into than any of the private schools mentioned.) If it is the same as the most expensive of the private schools, why shouldn’t Bronx Science also get an extra $10k or so per student?

    And what would prevent the four private schools from simply increasing tuition by the amount of the voucher? Maine, Vermont, and Connecticut do give some direct aid to some private independent schools, but they prohibit the school from charging the students beyond what they get from tax money.

    And why should the public be subsidizing inefficiently run schools? One reason Bronx Science is so inexpensive is that there really are significant economies of scale in education.

    Finally, how would the vouchers get paid for? I know that seems like a silly question given that we are spending hundreds of billions bailing out Wall Street, but eventually we have to stop printing money. Is there any support for a tax increase to support a voucher program?

    As an Orthodox Jew, I would love to see Jewish schools get some help. (One of the four private schools mentioned is indeed an Orthodox Jewish school.) But I have yet to see adequate answers to these practical questions.

    • Achance

      NEA’s primary rival, though they try to play nice these days.

      • Diogenes314

        How large a voucher or tax credit is deserved?

        Whatever the cost is of not educating the kids in question in the failing public schools

        And what would prevent the four private schools from simply increasing tuition by the amount of the voucher?

        Nothing. But opening it up to the free market would encourage new schools to open to meet the demand. It worked pretty well when vouchers were implemented in the late 40s/early 50s for higher education. You might have heard of it-the G.I. Bill.

        And why should the public be subsidizing inefficiently run schools?

        They shouldn’t. which is why the money should simply be transfered from the school run by and for the beureaucrats to the one that is dedicated to teaching kids. And if it drives the former out of buisness, good. If it causes them to improve, better.

        Finally, how would the vouchers get paid for?

        See above.

        • paulag1955

          When you say tax credit, where would that come from…the federal gov’t? What percentage of the bill do they underwrite at local public schools (obviously it varies state by state, just looking for a ballpark).

          • Herodotus

            Though much smaller than the NEA the AFT is a declared and dedicated leftist organization. The AFT is for example a member of the AFL-CIO. The NEA on the other hand was not created to be a union (though it has functioned as a de facto union for the last 40 years or so). Many NEA members have never been completely comfortable with the NEA functioning as a union as a result the NEA makes a great many pretenses of not being a union.

            This might sound strange to anyone not part of the ?education world,? but to a large degree the NEA is a status quo organization. The NEA does often push a leftist agenda, but it does so in reaction to the AFT pushing a wildly leftist agenda, and fear of losing members to the AFT. In NEA school systems that do not neighbor AFT school systems the NEA almost doesn?t seam to have an agenda.

          • Herodotus

            .

          • paulag1955

            I was just kidding you about being radical.

            It is certainly not radical to want kids to have a good education and public schools once did a good job and they can again. Conservatives fiddled while the school system burned. We need to rebuild it.

            Just my opinion. Even now, there are ways to get a good education in public schools (some of them, anyway) but you have to be proactive.

          • itrytobenice

            The first 4 paragraphs of your 7 paragraph diary are spent explaining why vouchers won’t solve all the ills of education.

            Saying that we should infiltrate the school boards overlooks the fact that the school boards have very little control over school matters anymore. Lawsuits, federal intrusion, nationwide textbooks approved by CA, dope addict parents, unionized teachers, etc. cause problems that the school board can’t solve.

  • Diogenes314

    School choice, as promoted by conservatives, is likely to draw off the most motivated families and students from our public schools. In other words, it will help students whose family situations already give them the highest likelihood for success, even in below average schools; families who already understand the importance of a good education and doing your homework every day. They inculcate values such as hard work and personal responsibility in their children.

    Left behind will be the children who need excellent schools the most; those whose families are broken beyond repair or otherwise dysfunctional, whose parents not only don?t care if their children do their homework?they don?t even know if their children have homework. These are the parents who tell the teachers, ?Don?t call me; I don?t want to get involved.?

    Once those motivated families leave the public schools how likely is it that those parents will be activists for excellent public schools? How likely is it that the remaining families will step up to fill in the volunteer spots left vacant? How likely is it that the remaining students will step up and be role models and leaders?

    Once those kids whose parents will take advantage of choice have left, the failing schools will disinigrate to the point they shut down. The remainder of the kids will go to other schools, as will the competent teachers, the rest of the staff will get a job pumping gas and the administrators will find some other civil service position to fail at.

    I agree with the school board comments, one thing to keep in mind is the tendancy of unions to buy said elections. They tend to be the highest donors for certain candidates, who then amazingly vote for whatever the unions want.

  • paulag1955

    Herodotus, Diogenes and Hermes, all together right here on RedState.

  • itrytobenice

    I homeschool, but our local school district is funded from property taxes/state taxes/federal taxes.

    I pay about $3,000 in school property taxes. The state sends each school district money for each student, but the amount varies by district (based on which representative can efficiently bribe the others.) The feds provide grant money based on dice and a roulette wheel.

    We know that when we add it all together, it comes to about $7,000 per student, so if I got a voucher for $7,000 for keeping my kids out of there, they would be better off, and the school would be no worse off. But it can’t happen because they would never get it all coordinated.

    The best we can ever hope for is a system where we could get a property tax credit for educating our kids somewhere else, a state tax credit for educating kids at the school of my choice, and the feds to close the department of education and use the building as a storage facility for nuclear waste. That would help insure that they don’t grow back.

  • paulag1955

    We don’t have a state income tax in Washington so no good way to do a tax credit.

  • Jaded

    If your students are failing you get fired period….run it like a business…unions care about themselves it is the few that really care about the students and the biggest thing to remove is social programs….reading, writing, history and for God’s sake physical education for 45 minutes a day!

    Reward success and you will have successful schools!

  • Hermes

    Much better men than I. Herodotus with his passion for truth. Diogenes with his lamp searching for an honest man. I’m not much against that. Heck, I don’t even exist! ;)

  • Jaded

    I tell you people have been quite well at expressing exact descriptions tonight!

  • itrytobenice

    And another reason to keep the issue away from the feds.

    Each state has to deal with the way to give parents control over their kid’s education in the manner that would best suit the tax program of that state.

    Of course, I realize we are just talking hypotheticals here, as not even the conservative state of Utah was able to do anything to break the union hold on our kids. People in CA, PA, MI, WI, RI, CT, MA, etc. can just forget about it.