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Blog may confirm political trap at Saddleback this weekend.

Admiral Akbar got it right.

By: Paul Seale (Diary)  |  August 13th, 2008 at 06:33 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Since seeing the commercials on Fox News announcing a political forum at Saddleback church this Saturday, I always suspected some thing was up. Then I ran across this blog which digs a little deeper and discusses who will be “helping” Rick Warren with questions to Obama and McCain.


Those “helpers” who are co-sponsoring the event happen to be people who lean not just a little left, but radically left. In fact one of them seems to be an Obama campaign adviser to Catholics.

Let this be a warning to all Christians in advance that the forum will more than likely be rigged to address questions which focus on – and this is my guess – an extremely marxist discussion revolving around what the government can do to solve the plight of the poor and needy (which just happens to be what Obama is selling) and not around traditional Christian issues.

So do not be expecting Senator Obama to explain why he is for infanticide, or be pressured to ensure religious freedom within the church.

In the words of the great Admiral Akbar – Its a trap!

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COMMENTS

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  • aceintx

    about Warren’s SLOW program…S=Supply condoms L=Limit the number of partners* O=Offer needle exchanges to addicts* W=Wait for sex as long as possible. and found that their section about preventing AIDs has been removed from the site…Just in time for this debate…and just in time to keep Conservative Christians from learning how Liberal he really is!

    • mbecker908

      See Erick’s blog about the people who are putting the questions together.

      Warren is well on his way to getting crossed off my list of people who I pay attention to.

      • patinoc

        All one has to do is see the Rick Warren
        website for his church. You will be hard
        pressed to find out information about
        Bible Study, prayer meetings, pro-life
        meetings, promotion of the traditional
        family, etc.

        You will find a lot about being a ‘world
        citizen’, global warming, world outreach,
        missions to nations that the West ignores
        supposedly, faith without borders or limits.

        The Purpose is how to be the world citizen Obama spoke of, not to be a
        born again Christian so much these days.

        Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, with their overt Christian based faith – passe. Too rigid, too right, too old
        fashioned.

        Warren is a nice guy. Good intentions.
        Great start. But, yes, in his mind, in his Oprah-ization of his church, it’s
        not about simple old fashioned one to
        one relationship with Christ….it’s
        about the world.

        John McCain will be booed, hissed, and
        politely applauded. Obama will be cheered, get whistles, and probably
        get standing ovations.

        They’re not going to discuss the importance of male-female marriage v.
        gay marriage, pro-life v. pro-abortion
        (not choice), value of life v. Schiavo
        decision, etc.

        Bush, pro-West, pro-Christian, anti-Islam…..whereas, the pro-Islamic
        fanatics will likely be described as
        being misunderstood.

        McCain is in for a sorry evening.
        See the price Warren charged for this
        event? That’s the OC way……charge
        a lot. For the truly caring people who
        could afford that ticket price to go…
        and applaud Barack Obama.

  • SteveLA

    Starting to pray for rain, abundant rain?

  • mbecker908

    who keep reinforcing the notion that preachers should not meddle in politics. See:

    Pat Robertson.
    Jerry Falwell.
    Mike Huckabee.

    Church and State do not mix. Every time it’s tried, the Church comes out on the short end of the stick.

  • paulseale

    mt.

  • aceintx

    Give me a break!

  • aceintx

    nt

  • mbecker908

    and to say anything (pretty much) they want. The first amendment guarantees all citizens that they have the right to make complete fools of themselves any time they can get members of the press to report on their opinions. All all of these guys have taken full advantage of that freedom.

    With regard to Huckabee, I could care less what he does in AR, I don’t live there. On the national scene, in the “big” game, he showed himself to be a complete buffoon. Again, a first amendment right.

    I’m not saying that these folks don’t have the right to do what they’ve done, I’m just saying that if they mustered some restraint and stuck to their calling they would be a whole lot more effective. Please note that every time a preacher gets involved in politics he’s like a firecracker. Quick flame and then his effectiveness at his previous calling is significantly hindered. If Warren turns this silliness into politics, he will follow the rest into the wilderness.

  • gamecock

    of the stick due to the non-Falwell/Robertson-like churches that have been more influenced by the secularist culture than vice versa.

    The church had a duty to oppose slavery, Jim Crow, Engle and Roe.

    America is the better for it and the Church too.

  • gamecock

    beck, have you moved to the left

  • mbecker908

    they deserve. Frankly, the folks in Arkansas either don’t care or don’t pay attention. There was Slick Willie for a decade, then a string of felons and Huck.

    I don’t vote in AR, and the policies put into place there have no to maybe a minuscule effect on me, so, no, I don’t really care what they do there. It’s their state.

    OTOH, I care a whole lot about federal policies and about policies in the state of Arizona.

  • gamecock

    nt

  • mbecker908

    are moral issues, not political. Politics is but one of the battlefields where those issues are impacted but they are ultimately decided in the hearts of individuals.

    I would argue that, in all likelihood, most – if not all – of the “issues” that will be discussed at Saddleback, now that abortion and family are off the table, will be strictly political. And, FWIW, I don’t consider the response of the federal government to AIDS to be a moral question but that’s a subject for a blog I don’t have the time or the inclination to write.

    You are absolutely right about America being better off for the Church. When the Church sticks to her calling the results are without measure. The Church ended slavery, stands against the holocaust of abortion and in the past has provided health care and nourishment to all in need. Unfortunately, the “leaders” have looked to the deep pockets of the government and have walked, or in some cases run, away from our calling to serve others.

  • gamecock

    The churches that have grown in the past 40 years are those that more resemble Falwell/Robertson han the liberal churches and what gets discussed on saddlebacks is quite a footnote. Moreover, saddlebacks’ nationally are not going to vote for Obama anyway no matter what they discuss. Nor is Warren himself.

    Obama is going to lose BIG TIME.

  • aceintx

    They do have a first Amendment right to be in politics… I’m sorry you can’t tolerate us being involved…but we are and will be for a good long time.

    I agree this will likely be Warren’s Swan song because he’ll prove himself to be the leftist charlatan he is.

    How you can Compare Dr. Falwell’s foray into politics to a firecracker is beyond me…but you’re entitled to your opinion!

    As for Huckabee…I have little for him myself anymore…but you brought him into this as a Christian that shouldn’t have been in Politics…He was elected as a Governor in Arkansas twice and elected as the head of the Republican Governors association…so I’d say he did ok at least….despite being a filthy Christian!

  • aceintx

    I was wondering how long it would take Christians to wake up to this reality…this debate looks like it will lay it bare for all to see. OI wrote in another blog that every issue to be discussed is a leftist issue.

    1) Aids…there will be lots of questions about what the Government can do to cure the plague that is AIDS and no discussion about how AIDS could not be spread if the Biblically prohibited behaviors of sexual promiscuity and drug induced depravity were ended.

    2)Poverty…look for minimum wage to be a big question, federal Job training programs and other nanny state anti poverty programs.

    3)Human rights???Look for the Bash America for Gitmo hour. We’ll hear questions about America’s fallen status in the world because of our unconscionable and inhumane treatment of out terrorist enemies!

    I don’t know why McCain allowed himself to be hooked into this because there is no way in hell that Obama would go to Thomas Road Baptist Church to face questions there!

  • gamecock

    doesn’t raise abstinence and monagamy re AIDS and the BAIPA/partial birth/abortion proper.

  • paulseale

    I am fairly confident that we probably will hear less about abstinence and more about how the federal government can intervene as pass out condoms.

    Why do I say that? Look at the Africa program being pushed. It puts abstinence on the extreme lower tier of what can be done to solve the problem.

    I would agree with a lot of what ace posted simply because of who is going to be part of the discussion.

    It looks like a trap to me.

    It could also be a sparkling moment if McCain is smart enough to point to the Bible and God’s desire for people to do these things willingly, and not through forced government programs.

  • mbecker908

    With respect to churches growing, and specifically Robertson/Falwell/Warren, those churches grew because those pastors taught God’s Word and challenged individuals to let Christ live through them. As soon as they secularize and go chasing “good works” their ministry falls off. Lots of people stay because people are, well, fickle.

  • mbecker908

    Nowhere did I say “Christians shouldn’t be involved in politics”. I happen to think Christians should be very involved in politics. On an individual level.

    My problem is with ministers of the Gospel of Christ, men who’ve been called by God to preach and teach His Word and to be leaders of the Church until His return. Some of these guys get all glassy eyed at the attention they get from the media and from the larger society and they just can’t help themselves. Happened to Robertson, happened to Falwell, it’s happening to Warren.

    Robertson, whatever his failings, had a powerful ministry through 700 Club and helped hundreds of thousands of people in a very wide variety of ways, from leading them into a relationship with the Savior to feeding the hungry and clothing the naked. When he ran for POTUS, all of that got put on – and never came off – the back burner. Same for Falwell and Moral Majority. It simply imploded.

    I don’t know what’s going to happen to Warren but I’m very distressed at the stuff he’s been doing for the last couple of years. Seems like he thinks he can save the world.

    Bottom line, I view being in the ministry as a much higher calling than being a politician. Even higher than being President of the US. Being called by God to touch the lives of people in His service is so much more fulfilling and so much more important than sitting in the Oval Office. And frankly, if you want to really impact the world the only way to do it is one life at a time. That’s why faith based organizations, and specifically Christian organizations, have such success helping people in crisis and government just helps them continue to screw themselves into the ground.

  • streetwise
  • aceintx

    and I doubt Obama would have agreed to the debate unless he knew those issues were off the table…maybe I’m too cynical but the topics of discussion chosen by Warren indicate a definite leftist bent and I would be shocked if the questions didn’t reflect the same…

  • aceintx

    Robertson’s run for Potus was a joke and didn’t do well at all…but I would say his work founding the Christian Coalition was an instrumental part of the Gingrich Revolution. Since the Christian Coalition was an extension of Falwell’s Moral Majority I would give Falwell credit on 1994 as well. You also ignore the founding of Liberty University and the Liberty Council by Dr. Falwell and Regent University by Robertson as well as the ACLJ by Robertson have been instrumental in rolling back many liberal overreaches by the Courts and the Schools of Government and Law by both universities are turning out Conservative leaders of the future by the thousands!

    As to whether their political endeavors negatively impacted their service as Christian Ministers, I think you’re off as well IMHO…Robertson’s operation blessing is one of the premier charitable organizations in the world including a medical plan they use to fly in and provide surgeries and medical help to areas of the world where these services would never otherwise be performed. Falwell’s Liberty God Parent home is just one small area of Charitable work where pregnant women who are considering abortion and are needing assistance are given housing and prenatal care and the children are placed for adoption rather than facing the scalpel and tongs of an abortionist. On this you are way off!

  • aceintx

    I also agree with you about Warren as I stated earlier…I think the success of the purpose driven life has gone to his head…and I think his obvious liberal positions exposed by his recent forays into politics will be his undoing!

  • mbecker908

    Specifically, with respect to Liberty and Regent, I don’t consider those to be “politics”. Those were as much “Christian Outreach” as starting a new church. Same for ORU.

    With respect to both CC & MM, for a brief and shining moment they did serve a purpose. Then, I think, both Robertson and Falwell got carried away with their limited success, the organizations became an extension of “them” and they crashed and burned. The purpose both served was really to get people involved in the political process who’d been on the waaaaaay outside their whole lives. That was a good thing. When the organizations became over-reaching, with their founders working to set the agenda of the Party and “speaking for their members” they lost me.

  • aceintx

    nt