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The Difference Between Them and Us

Recently there have been several news stories regarding the Left and our side: Congressman Lewis and the Black Congressional Caucus, The Tea Parties that turned out benign, and the Leftist protesters that are virulent and call for harm to our side’s leaders and spokespeople. A discussion with some friends brought up the concepts of hatred and evil. This discussion yielded mixed conclusions; we all agreed that there was hatefulness in the behavior of the Left, but there was the question of what evil is. These words,”evil” and “hatred,” have been on my mind and perhaps because of these recent events, I wanted to analyze the meaning and interpretation of these words.  Here are some word associations:

Hatred:  hostility, enmity, rancor, resentment, antipathy, ill-will, intolerance. I could stop right here because you all know where this goes, but it is deeper than that and I will show it.

Evil:  amoral, corrupt, depraved, hateful, malevolent, malicious, unprincipled, vicious, malice, black-hearted. Right now I see many words almost interchangeable with any of the definitions or associated words. Keep this in mind.

Good:  enjoyable, appropriate, delightful, esteemed, nice, right, decent, noble, valid, and wonderful. That list goes on and on.

When I see or hear words from the Left directed toward us, I am amazed and shocked, but no longer naive.  Who in the world are these people talking about? Then I realize they are talking about us – decent, caring people who love our country. People who work hard, raise families, do what they can for others, and now give time they don’t have to try and save this great nation. We are speaking out, we are getting involved in our communities, we are reading the Founding Fathers, and the Constitution; and for this, we get trashed, maligned and denigrated by a portion of the population that gets the airtime and the support of the MSM and this administration.

What is so bad about half of the American people that our own government with the aid of the media, mocks us? The media makes a big deal about “right-wing” extremists – they’ve referred to us as racists, haters and Nazis, at one time or another.  Tabitha Hale’s Freedom Works post has an excellent collection of who is really doing the hating, and wishing harm to others. The recent sign at a demonstration, “Hope Sarah Chokes” or wishing Rush Limbaugh to get cancer and die, are remarks and public displays of this extreme vitriol. How many times did the Left wish publicly, that Pres. Bush would be harmed?  The Leftists Dems encourage this type of rhetoric by their silence, because it helps their agenda.

The media has stumbled over themselves to try and distort the Tea Parties. See Vassar’s post at their lack of success. In the end, it is the extremists of the Left, that has the public square and ear, who seek to sow hatred and enmity and stigmatize those that don’t agree with them. Strange how they don’t call our true enemies, the Islamic Jihadists, these names, just their fellow citizens get these ugly labels.

Consider that hatred has to be fueled, fed like a greedy fire. Stoked. This is what is happening with the Leftist administration and media. But there is a danger when a government stokes the flames of hatred of one group of citizens against another. The extremists in our government are aided and abetted by the media and hate-filled sites like Daily Kos and Huffington Post, many of us never visit, because we cannot absorb such venom and vitriol.

Let me talk about our side for a bit. We do not hate, we are driven by something much lighter, more positive. We see things wrong and we want to fix them, not project hate and destruction. We are able to voice discontent, disagreement and frustration without calling for someone’s death. We also quickly marginalize those on the extreme end of our continuum – we do not present them as heroes. We are not elitist looking down upon a whole group of people. We have discovered that the Constitution, in an incredibly marvelous way, fits us all in. Simple as that. Maybe intuitively our side realizes that hatred can only destroy, it can never build up anything. Even in our most passionate moments of protest, we have not sought their destruction or harm, but only to stop them from causing harm.

So about this hatred that oozes from the Left, and the foaming mouths that utter such hatefulness toward an innocent group of citizens. It is their empty souls that spew venom toward our military (Murtha and Kerry are two examples), yet it is that military that protects this country and their right to spew such venom. Do evil and hatred go together? Yes, I believe they do and for the Leftist extremists, the two are entwined. There is hateful behavior that those with an agenda encourage, and this is where the inherent evil exists. Most of us understand evil as exemplified by the atrocities of the 20th Century: Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. But no one should think that those hideous genocides occurred in a vacuum. I believe we see the same kind of mentality fostered today, and hatred stoked, similar to the kind that enabled those infamous names to carry out their horrific deeds. It was the townspeople who smashed the storefront windows, or gave up their neighbors, or despised the gypsies, the homosexuals, and political opponents.  I use this example because the German people thought they were regular people and that they were right.

The names of Milosevic and Saddam Hussein, Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong il come to mind as well.  A leader with the support of a portion of the population, driven by hatred, can lead to unspeakable acts against their fellow man.   I don’t believe that we would have such horrors here as have happened elsewhere in the world,  but I do believe that understanding how propaganda and fostering a certain mind set can lead to extremes of behavior that we ordinarily could not fathom.  What seems impossible now can gain credibility over time.  These are examples that help to remind us of the extent that man can feel hatred and commit evil.  It may be controversial to say that one can glimpse similar mindsets in those of the radical Left, but I think it is there and in an insidious way the future is being affected, just what form it will take remains to be seen.  The seeds of hatred help sow evil.

When the Left cheers the most despicable and heinous comments made about our side – people who are decent and good and hard working Americans – and they sneer at us and belittle us, that is hatred and evil, and must be fought.  There is danger in this attempted marginalization of a group of citizens.  Since Obama and the Leftists took over the nation, they are unrestrained now.  Can we change their mindset? I do not know. IMO, it is more than just corruption and a loss of perspective that drives these people.

We need to think about the differences between our side and theirs, because I believe those that hate us will be the ones to cross the line to stop us.  Whatever our response, it won’t include foaming at the mouth with vitriol, or “hope you die” signs, it will be with dignity and truth and the law, and as much as possible, we will prevail. But it is necessary that we finally recognize, (even if we don’t understand it) the hatred directed toward us.

You know that saying that revolves around “knowing something when you see it?”  I think that is what has happened to many of us. I have not looked for evil, almost didn’t recognize it, but now I know it when I see it.

COMMENTS

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    may become a reality if the left is not stopped. I hope it is done without violence on our side but I’m not sure that will happen. It is not the time for violence, yet. Of that I’m certain.

    The problem with those unspeakable acts is the left will “pretty them up”, use language that means something different to explain them away, like assisted suicide and abortion.

    There is an old movie, not necessarily one of Bullock’s best, but one in which she plays the part of a computer programmer whose identity has been stolen by people in control of computer security through some program called the Gate Keeper program. These people had used that program to falsify medical records for a Congressman or Senator (forget which) to say he had aids, who then committed suicide. He was an opponent of the security takeover by that company.

    How difficult will it be to do that to ordinary Americans when the feds take over the medical system and all our records are held in a national database? Or to allow people to die from treatable diseases because they don’t “fit” society?

    Sometimes looking back on history we don’t get a sense of the time between the beginning of a movement to it’s conclusion. Those unspeakable acts in the past didn’t progress all that quickly, or smoothly, but seem to have when we read about them because we learn the whole of it in a few pages.

    These things may not happen in our lifetimes but can happen still.

    Unless we stop them and roll back the damage to this country.

    I hope I don’t sound arrogant but this country and the freedom it offers means a lot to the world. Not to the leaders of other countries but to the oppressed, down trodden, and outright rejects of them who look to us as an example of the promise of better. It is because of this we’re hated by other nations for as long as we stand as that “shining city on hill” those leaders will not know absolute power and control over their own countries because they have nothing to offer except more control, poverty, and even death to some.

    Not because of what we do but what we are: FREE. At least somewhat in spite of everything the left has done to change that.

    Once we won the revolution and became a country in our own right, we sort of became a nation of rejects; people who wanted freedom and could not find it in their own countries. Where now will those rejects go?

    • penguin2

      in your perception. I share a similar sentiment.

      I hope I don

      • Raven

        Of Rationed Care
        of Value to State and Society
        Assisted Suicide
        Limiting access to medications and procedures

        Obama’s administration has TOLD us what they are going to do. We need but listen.

        …And fight.

        • penguin2

          planted. Via Powerline: Dr. Donald Berwick has been appointed to head the Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services. It this guy who believes that the British system of Health Care is a model to follow. Unfortunately, Britain’s National Health Service is one that rations care in such a way, that Americans would be horrified if they knew all the details.

          There are numerous examples, and if you follow the link, Powerline gives a nice synopsis of the threat that Dr. Berwick represents based on his openly stated admiration for the NHS and NICE. A couple of serious points:

          Berwick has his eyes on the British method of rationing, as implemented through Great Britain’s National Health Services (NHS) and its National Institute for Clinical Health and Excellence (NICE).
          According to the Wall Street Journal, NICE currently holds that, except in unusual cases, Britain cannot afford to spend more than about $22,000 to extend a life by six months.” The question, as the Journal puts it is: “Who would you rather have making decisions about whether a treatment is worth the price — the combination of you, your doctor and a private insurer, or a government board that cuts everyone off at $22,000?” I vote for the first option.

          http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/04/026189.php

          The moves that this administration has made and the clear Leftist belief system of Obama and of those he appoints, are all puzzle pieces that are putting together a picture one should be aware and concerned about.

          • janis

            my dad would have been dead years ago. His latest hospital adventure involved 5 weeks of care by some of the best, most caring individuals that I’ve known. That was at St. Thomas Hospital in Nashville, TN. Highly, highly recommended. My dad is one of the few remaining WWII vets and deserves every single dollar, dime and penny that it takes to keep him going. He’s back at home, is up and around and takes joy in his life still. Who are these people to tell him whether or not he is worth keeping alive?

            None of them have done anything but serve themselves, they have certainly not served their country as my father has. Knowing that it is Marines who guard the gates of Heaven, these miserable people who think this way don’t stand a chance.

    • chuckie

      …..it’s what has made our country different since its foundation….the fact that this country was founded on a set of ideas…..you were american because of what you believed, not just where you were born….

      …you’re german because your family is from germany…..you’re chinese because your family is from china….these things don’t depend on what you believe, only on geographical coincidence…..

      ….germans who believed in american ideas came to america……other germans stayed in germany…..chinese who believed in american ideas came to america…..other chinese stayed in china……this is the origin of “american exceptionalism,” plain and simple……

      …..and it was doomed from the start…..eventually, the majority of americans will necessarily be americans just because they were born here, and it becomes just another geographical description…..and you end up with “americans” who believe they are entitled to the designation by birth, without having to live up to the ideas…..

  • nessa

    I’m looking forward to the comments this generates, more later…

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/a_stranger_in_our_midst.html

      http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thestate.com%2F2010%2F05%2F02%2F1269814%2Fusc-wins-slugfest-takes-series.html&h=6fd61

      • penguin2

        as I was driving the car, and I exclaimed out loud, “yes that is exactly what I was saying.” In fact I had a proud moment thinking that I had had that on my mind for a while, and finally put it down on paper. Was still uncertain about publishing it, but after all that thinking…..decided to go ahead. Obviously this has been on other people’s minds as well.

        On Wednesday downthread, I had noted to BRW, it was not only Obama that does not seem American in character and tone, but many of the people he has surrounded himself with, some overtly, some covertly. There is something lacking……Mr. Weissberg called our emotional response to this, “unease.”

        I know it has been a concern of mine from the beginning.

        Thanks for your compliment and reco, GC. Always appreciated.

  • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

    Evil doesn’t like to be alone, so it looks for evil everywhere to validate itself.
    Good assumes good to its own peril, it looks for good everywhere, sees evil but hopes for good.
    The master of evil knows he’s destroyed, but still has time left to destroy others.
    Whether the left likes it or not, we’re the good guys and if they don’t join us, they’re doomed, if not in this world, then certainly in the next.
    You know what I mean, Penguin.
    On the other hand, how do we deal with the left? All on the left are not evil, but we need to at the same time isolate and destroy the evil, and reason with the good but misguided.
    How do we know the difference? We don’t, we will but it takes time that we don’t have to figure it out.
    I need to pray more. We need to.

    • penguin2

      And I did try to be careful to only focus on the Leftists extremists, but there is a nagging shadow in all of this, because huge numbers of people who are not haters or evil themselves, have landed up historically supporting unthinkable events. It is like the poison can be spread unless countered.

      The malignant media (my label) is aptly named, because even thought they have not posted hateful signs, or some of the more virulent rhetoric, they have in an insidious and covert manner, been influencing and assisting in the brainwashing of the people. The takeover of our major cultural and academic institutions are part of the Lefts work and again contributing to societal indoctrination.

      IMO, these are the same kinds of events and actions that laid the groundwork in Nazi Germany of the 30′s and then that is how they found themselves as they did post WWll – having committed unspeakable acts against their fellow citizens.

      I think many from our side are just as you described. I always look for the good in people or a situation, and have to admit to being surprised and sometimes hurt, to discover the world doesn’t think like I do. But it was because I was starting out from a different premise. The most vulnerable to negative influences are those who have uncertainty and not a strong moral compass, they are susceptible to the influence of the truly evil in society.

      We must be forever vigilant, because the potential for the impossible to occur, has certainly reached our shores.

      • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

        I had a friend, a German spouse of a soldier. We were chit-chatting one day and she told me the story of her father during WWII. Soon after being made to fight, he was taken prisoner of war by the Americans. He spent the rest of the war in as a prisoner and was thankful for it. He did not believe in the evil being done by his country’s leaders but he had to do as ordered. He hated the war and he hated Hitler but not being anyone of consequence… which is probably a good thing for him or he would have been killed by his own countrymen rather than taken prisoner of war and I would not have met my friend because she wouldn’t have been born.

        My friend’s father did as ordered to hope for survival. I expect a lot of the left do the same thing because they cannot see the difference between “them and us.” We may not have to do much except continue being ourselves and let them see the folly and hate that comes from “their side.” Hearts and minds are won through consistency of actions, not through promises broken such as the left is experiencing now.

        • penguin2

          I am not saying that any one nation is guilty of anything. I only want to point out that there can be enough brainwashing and enough sway and influence on a given population, to cause harm to fellow citizens. German soldiers, IMO, fall into an entirely different category than the Nazis or the populace. The military had/has an entirely different mission and orders, as they did in WWll. The Nazis of course, were another story.

          But there remains the portions of the populace that contributed in some manner to the eventual Holocaust. Germany of the 1930′s had a number of laws enacted that marginalized separate citizens groups. There were incidents of violence against the Jews, as well as any in opposition to Hitler, including the groups I named in the post. The seeds were sown.

          Each country that Germany occupied also had their share of native peoples that aided and abetted in the Germany’s Final Solution. Not all of course, and there was the Resistance groups as well as the Danes all putting on the Jewish Star to keep the Nazis from deporting the Jewish population.

          I want to emphasize that I know it may only be a few, but a few radicals can cause a lot of damage. Right, now I feel that this country is and has been under the tyranny of the minority over the majority for several decades. It is the insidious brainwashing and reinforcement by those in power that enable evil deeds to happen.

          Flaming class warfare, or race warfare, or any singled out group of citizens, makes for a scapegoat, and hatred stoked leads to the atrocities that have occurred and continue to occur in the world. I am banking on the uniqueness of the American Spirit that such horror would NEVER darken out shores.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            I was telling that story to augment your statement that not all on the left are evil, meaning that I’m in agreement with you.

            Just telling an individual’s story rather than a look at history books has a way of making it personal to those who see or hear it, to show that it’s not just some made up claim to make WWII seem less bad.

            I don’t believe everyone on the left is evil, either.

        • Raven

          This hits a little closer to home for me than many. My in-laws were VC. They whole-heartedly believed that they were fighting to make Vietnam its own nation not subject to anyone else. It was the 1980s before they realized what they had taken part in and the mid-90s before they got here.
          Why here? Why come to the nation they had fought so hard against? Because of the examples provided by our soldiers over there. They knew this was the place to be since their consciences could no longer allow them to stay where they were. They could not allow their children to grow up in that place.

          Evil or Servants of Evil. In the 60s and 70s, there was no way to tell one from the other in the VC. They all did evil.

    • Raven

      We have no way to tell from our side which is which.
      As time goes by, more and more of the latter will open their eyes and see what they have participated in and they will flee. Whereas the former…

      Some will be smart enough to realize where their side is going and seek to preserve their own lives so as to start again later, to preserve the cause. But most will be so far gone, Are so far gone already, they can do nothing but follow it to the bitter end.

  • cactusjack

    Courtesy of the MSM and multicultural relativism, hey we’re almost there in a place described long ago: “woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight…which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him.” (Isaiah 5:20,21,23)[KJV] Translated to modern times this equates to, let’s litigate the Boy Scouts out of existence, denigrate women who are able to stay home with their kids, and devote hours of TV programming to chronicling the casual debauchery of magnates’ (grown, unemployed) children in Hollywood. Oh, and abortion-a-go-go & trash the Constitution while the masses are distracted.
    Thanks for the post penguin2.

    • penguin2

      You have described a number of societal ills. It seems that once the majority of the country had such a moral compass, that they were able to be the dominant voice and moral virtues and family values were reinforced, everywhere. That is one of the purposes of society, to reinforce the cultural values and norms. Unfortunately, with the decay in this area, the wrong ones are being reinforced and the final destruction of the solid morally based ones, is almost accomplished.

      That is the battle those on our side wage, and we can never give up.

  • itrytobenice

    I’m going to regurgitate something I read a long time ago.

    There is something in psychology where when someone is confronted with a fear that they cannot accept as possible, they transfer that fear over to something that is non-threatening enough that their little brains can deal with it.

    The analysis was that since the jihadists were so evil and so bad that the lefties couldn’t deal with the idea that someone really would bury them up to their necks and stone them or cut off their heads with a dull knife, they transferred that fear over GWB/Cheney as a threat to their freedom and safety.

    Now, as the jihadists are still running rampant and GWB is not in power, they have transferred it to us. Somehow, to them, *we* are such a terrible threat to them that we deserve to die. *We* are trying to deprive them of their freedom or their lives.

    It causes strange behavior.

    • penguin2

      My take on the vitriol and hate directed towards GWB, is that is grew out of the 2000 election and the loss of their Leftist Al Gore. They were stymied in promoting their agenda. Then 9/11 happened and that really was a setback on their hate America, America is bad plan. In other words, 9/11 interfered significantly with the progress they had hoped to make.

      Of course, now we are paying the price, because they had more time to get the players in position and go for the all out assault. Something they might not have been able to accomplish if Al Gore had become president.

      • janis

        “selected not elected”, then we might not be here today. When Sept. 11th happened, and then I saw George Bush on that pile of smoldering rubble with a bullhorn in his hand and the other hand on the shoulder of a firefighter, I knew for a certainty that Al Gore would have called in the lawyers under the same circumstances and we would still be the paper tiger that Bin Laden had attacked.

        And we would have been attacked again and again and again after that….

  • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

    Not to say what the Left has done is not evil, but I do not think the people on the Left are Evil. And I know Penguin is not saying everyone on the Left is evil.

    I think it is despicable what those on the Left spout out. I think it is because they have not grown up emotionally and cannot get their emotions out of an argument.

    For the most part we on the Right can take the emotion out of the argument and will even listen to those on the Left. But too many on the Left do not want to even hear something they do not agree with. This is childish behaviour. LALALALALA and hands over their ears. They just cannot believe no one can agree with them.

    And I do think we aregoing down the slippery slope where the Government gets to pick the winners and losers:

    Obama Denies Individual Aid for Storm Relief

    We are living in scary times for the Freedoms we love and cherish, and must stand together and tell these haters that enough is enough. The Vitriol must stop. And if we see our side do it, we must tell them to cease. The country is getting too divisive, and the arrogance of Obama and the Dems do not help

    • Achance

      The followers range from stupid to childish to narcissistic; in Lenin’s phrase, useful idiots.

      The leadership fundamentally does not believe in individual rights or individual endeavor and thus does not believe in the fundmental tenets of America. Consequently, they, in Comrade Obama’s word, want to transform America into something more to their liking. They know they can’t honestly tell the American people what they want to do, though it slips out at times, so they lie in order to acquire power and then run roughshod over the will of the people in order to achieve the desired transformation. That is evil!

      • janis

        The leadership is definitely evil, black-hearted and tyrannical and they glory in it. The proof of that statement is in the company they keep and the hatred they stir up and direct against us amongst their followers. They label us as “other” and then make it almost a requirement to hate us, to destroy us in whatever ways they can. Every single time we stand up and fight back, they double their efforts and their hateful rhetoric against us. Shades of Chavez, Ahmadinejad, and all the rest of Obama’s best buds!

        Black River Wolf, if they were not evil, they would not find it so easy to do things that result in the deaths of their own countrymen in order to achieve their goals. It’s what Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn and their ilk did– it was fine by them to cause the deaths of policemen or anyone else with the bombs they made right here in America and if innocents died, well, that was just the price they were willing to pay for what they wanted. Notice that THEY themselves didn’t die, nor did those they cared about, no, that was a price too high. It was the “other” that was expendable.

        We are the “other” and to them, we are expendable. So are our children and our parents as well. After all, they are sucking up valuable resources and for what? To extend freedom and liberty for yet another generation. Better that we all die and get out of their way.

      • IJB

        The greatest mistake our side can make is to assume that if we just get rid of Obama and Pelosi and Reid that the problem with go away.

        It won’t.

        The rank and file of the Left, and the Democrat Party, is infested with evil too – you can see it in the anti-AZ protesters, the college students who take over and trash college admin. buildings, the people who work for ACORN, the ACLU and the ADA, the people who work for and shill for unions, the trial lawyers, etc.

        We will lose this battle if we just assume that the leadership of the Democrat Party is the problem – frankly, it’s the *rank-and-file*, the activists, that are the *real* problem with the Dem party.

        If we don’t get that, we’re doomed.

        • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

          I think it is all of DC that is the problem on both sides. But that is a different story.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            State and local governments have their own stake in this and can be just as bad. Consider NY, CA, and MI just to name a few.

        • Achance

          they’re nothing more than tools and mouthpieces for the operatives and money people. The staff people of unions, non-profits, think tanks, etc. are the leadership cadre. If we ever get back in power we should take a very, very serious look at the tax status of a LOT of Leftwing front groups. And if any Republican governors had any guts, they’d be looking at it at the state level.

          • IJB
      • JSobieski

        I used to pride myself in staying calm and trying to argue with some of the really hard cases on the left. I find it increasingly hard to do so, and I don’t think its all about me losing my patience.

      • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

        I do not think so. Misguided and totally wrong, but evil???

        This throwing evil back and forth does not help anything, just forces people farther part and makes them get angrier and more prone to do evil things.

        Having a debate on how the country is suppose to be run should not have anything to do with the other side being evil.

        • penguin2

          here, and those of the radical Left, in that they do want to take the country down and transform it into something that is unacceptable to the majority of Americans. That is why I do make the distinction of the Left vs Dems, Libertarians and any other folks. The Leftist that have made inroads here are a serious threat to our country as we know it, that makes them evil to me, because that would destroy our wonderful nation as it was founded upon the Constitution. The document that set us free from tyranny as the world has known it.

        • Achance

          This is not about the citizens of a democratic republic debating “.. how the country is suppose (sic) to be run …” It is about a self-appointed elite having made a determination as to how it should run and takng the steps to “transform” the Country in spite of the will of the people who are conducting a “debate.”

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            Just asking since Republicans were elected and changed the direction of the Governnment then????

            I agree that they are taking us in the wrong direction, but they were elected, with some shaninnigans with ACORN and others, this is why elections count and those that willingly stayed home or voted 3rd party to stick it to the Republicans are just as guilty as ACORN and the rest.

          • Achance

            rejected the course of the Democrat Party, which at that time was trying to do many of the things Comrade Obama’s junta has done and is trying to do. This election was based on lies and deceit, complete complicity by the leftwing controlled media, massive voter fraud, and huge, largely illegal expenditures by unions and shadowy front groups combined with a completely contrived “economic crisis” and oil prices manipulated by speculation to stratospheric levels – all to assure the installation of Comrade Obama and his anti-American regime.

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            and most likely take the House and get close to even in the Senate.

            This is how we get rid of the bad politicians, or at least it is how it is suppose to be done, but it gets harder and harder because of the fiefdoms the CONgress critters and their friends carve out for themselves.

            I agree it was based on lies and deceit. That is the only way Dems get elected. And will not disagree with the economic crisis and oil speculation manipulation,

            I am totally against the Left’s political philosophy and what they are trying to do. But calling them evil will not win minds, it will only make things worse I think. It will push the so-called Independents (not Leftists Dems) away and not want to vote for a Republican.

            And I am not saying that the Left is not doing evil also, I just do not think calling them Evil is a good thing for political discourse. I will call them on evil actions and deeds, but that is not calling them evil personally.

          • janis

            to call a terrorist a terrorist. We will not defeat our enemies unless and until we can have the courage and consistency to not only call them what they are, but to point out why we say so. What the terrorists do is evil. What these people who are hellbent on destroying this country and freedom for anyone are doing is evil.

            I will never forget the jawdropping moment of hearing George W. Bush say out loud and in front of the cameras the expression “the Axis of Evil.” That one phrase, and the man’s conviction in saying it, gave courage and strength to all those who had been terrorized by Sept. 11th, 2001. And it gave notice to those to whom it referred that we saw them and we were calling them out in front of the whole world. It was a clarifying moment for the entire world. And it is a huge and deadly shame that that moment is no more.

          • JSobieski

            There is a reason why the devil rejoices when we deny his existence.

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            They are using a religion, not exactly a Religion of Peace, but using it in perverse ways to justify killing people.

            And I agree that those that would use Gov control to decide that a life is not worth it is evil. that is just wrong. What gives them the right to play God. My nephew was suppose to be born with something similar to cerebral palsy, but is a healthy 3 year old

          • penguin2

            Even though hatred can be misguided, it still can do significant damage, regardless of the reasons for it. In discussing the concept of evil that man can do and be capable of, I think you have to look at the idea that those of the Left that I am talking about are not really American anymore in the sense that we are. In other words, they don’t have America’s interest at heart and have entirely different plans for her.

            That said, I think that what they are doing and capable of, is evil. It is no longer about some counter protesters to our Tea Parties; there are people in government, behind the scenes as Art notes, as well as active in this administration, that are clearly bent on doing harm to the traditional American way of life and to the individuals that seek to maintain our nation’s Freedom. How else does one explain an administration and his cohorts, and his appointees attacking and denigrating half the citizenry of this country?

            When I listen to their words, I read between the lines of the outright demagoguery and know that these words have been uttered before in history. And human beings have listened and followed, even without understanding what is happening. IMO, it is more than routine politics going on. This is the way to tyrannical power.

            The Left has a detachment and disdain, and an agenda that is in direct contradiction to our Constitution, Declaration of Independence and a number of other Founding Father documents. That’s why they have been packing the courts with Liberal justices at all levels. It isn’t just the Supreme Court we should be concerned about, it is all the lower levels where, unfortunately, many Liberal judges are already in place. It is the systematic take down on the infrastructure of this nation foundation. Obama’s own Justice department is refusing to investigate cases, that if the situation was reversed, the media would be all over our side.

            I mean after all, we are the good guys, regular folk, the backbone of America, and we are being treated like we are criminals and less than full citizens. When the government attacks it own people, in the way this one has, with the help of the Leftist media, then we should be very concerned.

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            I think we are proving one of your main ideas here. We may have disagreements from time to time here, but we always have a civil argument.

            And even if I may disagree with you all, I do not think that you need to have the exact same ideas as me.

            We are all individuals and do not have to agree on every single thing, but we all agree that we must defeat the Left before they take our country too far over the cliff

          • penguin2

            learn what each other thinks and can modify or just store information for a future day.

            But about the Left, yes, we have to defeat them.

          • Achance

            will be counted and, if counted, counted accurately. But I don’t have the confidence in any of that happening that I once did. I’ve seen enough union elections in which the Business Manager looked at all the ballots that had been cast and says, “That looks like 2,135 to 1, 712, I’ve been re-elected.” That’s the school of vote counting that Comrade Obama went to.

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            where majority of elections there are more votes than registered voters and people are registered at empty lots.

            But until we can vote the idiots that are in charge out, it will continue, or find a AG that will actually prosecute,which they are starting to crack down somewhat where I live. the last few elections people have been thrown in jail for multiple voting

          • Doc Holliday
          • janis

            and Dr. Ezekiel Emmanuel anything but evil? These people look at children as things, not as precious gifts from God. Things that can be exterminated at will, especially if there’s something wrong with them that will cost the state money it doesn’t want to spend. Got a child born with cerebral palsy? Sorry, that child will not grow up to be a productive worker for the state, so it must die before consuming precious resources better spent on someone with more potential. Got an elderly parent who no longer produces anything of worth to the state? They get the pill and then they will either die as expected or they will be “assisted” in that process by the loving caregivers of the state.

            You don’t call that evil? And these are the creatures that the current administration listens to, legislates by, and keeps close to their traitorous bosoms. You are known by the company you keep as well as the actions you perpetrate upon those you are supposed to serve.

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            that is truly cruel and should have no ear in any Government.

    • penguin2

      I probably would have agreed with you, because up until then I did not feel threatened by the Left, though I knew they existed. I grew up when the concerns about Communism was strong, and the memories and pictures of WWll were spoken about and were taught in school.

      I like to study people and this is what makes me draw some of these threads. I don’t believe that the Left will do something like the atrocities of the 20th century, but no longer can I say that they are not capable of it, or certainly some modern day version of it. I think they are capable of doing evil and the seeds are being sown. It still remains for the people themselves to determine the outcome.

      Again, though I don’t mean to pick on Germany, though there are those that said did not know, there were many who did. They were the ones who turned over their neighbors, Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, 7th Day Adventist, even Communists in the early days to the Nazis. The populace made scapegoats of their own fellow citizens.

      In Kosovo, Croat, Bosnia, the Christians turned on their Islamic neighbors and fellow villagers. All of this points to the fact that human beings are capable of such hatred and thus evil that brings them to do the unthinkable, the unspeakable.

      As I said to Steph, I hope we have something unique in our American character that will hold off the assault of the Left, because they can lead a small amount of people against other citizens, and cause great harm.

      I have seen the Left look at us with such disdain and malice, that I no longer can say they are not a threat. While they may seem like a few extremists, they have made inroads with their agenda, and they have a number of people going along for the ride.

      • cwilson

        Here’s the testimony of FBI informant Larry Grathwohl in the 1982 documentary No Place to Hide, concerning Obama’s terrorist mentor William Ayers:

        I asked, “well what is going to happen to those people we can’t reeducate, that are diehard capitalists?” and the reply was that they’d have to be eliminated.

        And when I pursued this further, they estimated they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these reeducation centers.

        And when I say “eliminate,” I mean “kill.”

        Twenty-five million people.

        I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of which have graduate degrees, from Columbia and other well-known educational centers, and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people.

        And they were dead serious.

        Four times more murders, in official government reeducation centers, than the Third Reich murdered Jews. That’s the chappie Teh Won picked to ghost write his first — of two, before he turned 40 — autobiography. And now Teh Won is president, and busily stuffing the bureaucracy and judiciary with other mentors.

        Naw, this stuff could never happen HERE.

        • penguin2

          how far I went with possible outcomes, as it new for me to even believe that we have people capable of such actions. But we do, some of them are in positions of power, and not all are obvious, but it is clear they exist.

          This also goes with the premise that some group of the citizenry can be made into scapegoats and attacked and marginalized. The other side of the coin is the portion of the population, however small, who accepts, participates and is complicit in these actions. Government stoking the fires of intolerance – by racism or class warfare – is a very dangerous sign.

          Didn’t President Obama use the word “antipathy” in a speech to his elitist supporters, he said we were guilty of it, but what he really revealed was the resentment and antipathy he has towards at least half of the population of this country. Since he has taken office, much more has been revealed.

          There is no doubt in my mind that something inconceivable to us could happen, maybe not in the short-term, but I throw it out there for people understand the historical perspective and look to the long-term.

      • http://www.veronicaestrada.com/ Veronica Estrada

        and I wish I had more time to really, really read everything and find a more appropriate spot for my comment, if there is one.

        Kids.

        My comment is in regard to ” I don

        • penguin2

          I read your posts and comments, and I know you have a pretty good take on these things. Everything I have seen since the 2008 election has only reinforced the words I wrote. I have probably been a bit restrained in positing on these things, because it is foreign to my mind, heart and soul.

          That said, when one looks at the words associated with evil – amoral, corrupt, malicious, unprincipled – do we not see these in action? Yes, we do and that is why I consider the Left and what they are doing to be evil, with evil intent behind everything they do.

          The outcome remains to be seen, but I hope we do not falter…..

          • http://www.veronicaestrada.com/ Veronica Estrada

            I can understand how encountering those things associated with evil — how they can bother the soul.

            Blessings on your mind, your work and putting out the good word.

            I have hope we don’t falter, too.

            Amen, amen.

  • Beasley Beesmeal

    some folks Can’t be taught, the truth must leave an indelible mark…it must impact them in a very personal way

    Am I inciting violence? rotf

    some of the more narrowly-focused liberals will think so…they are waiting for us to lash out…

    but that’s only because the cold hand of Reality hasn’t smacked them across the face yet

    • penguin2

      We need for our side to win, simple as that. The alternative will be disastrous for America as we know it.

    • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

      I think the left finally managed to find a fuse they could get to actually burn with the immigration garbage.
      Remember May Day in LA a couple years ago? There’s no crazy leftist like an open borders leftist, many have lived with violence all around them all their lives.
      Counter-protests by tea party types are in the planning stages. The left may finally have some actual violence they can blame on the little old ladies with the home made signs.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    You laid out carefully why the coming collision is inevitable. More later.
    VB

  • redneck_hippie

    Jim Hoft has story:

    http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/04/obama-big-sis-call-out-riot-police-on-tea-party-ladies/

    My daughter and her family live in Quincy, where I have visited more times than I can remember. A most unlikely place for a riot to break out. Can I be the first to call Team Obama at best wussies, and at worst, well, you draw your own parallel.

    The stench coming from this administration is now stinking up a town that hosted a Lincoln Douglas debate. Pathetic.

    • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

      Talk about overkill…

      • redneck_hippie

        One of the bloggers out there on the web has video of the dangerous mob singing the battle hymn of the republic, followed by the na na na na, hey hey hey goodbye song as the riot police march away.

        Pathetic. Only this administration could so disrespect our law enforcement as to call them out in such a cynical manner.

        • IJB

          It won’t be long before Obama doesn’t call up a standard SWAT team, but instead calls up one stacked with Obama “loyalists”.

          And that’s the day it won’t end with cute pictures of little old ladies smiling in front of the SWAT team…

          IMO, it’s only a matter of time.

        • redneck_hippie

          want to call in riot squad:

          http://twitter.com/DLoesch/status/13042489526

          via comment on hotair.

          I know that the local Quincy police would Never have done this on their own responsibility! It would be like calling in riot police on your own grannie’s knitting circle.

      • Doc Holliday

        http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/28/video-swat-team-outside-obama-event-beats-back-geriatric-tea-party-hordes/

        I have seen Coast Guard JROTC march better than those punks. And most of them could never get through MEPS processing because they are so fat.

        • Doc Holliday
      • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

      • texasgalt

        Those ladies look pretty rough and they tend to carry pretty sharp knitting needles.

        God bless them for being patriots.

    • http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim
    • penguin2

      the grannies of America, shows how our own government is going after its citizenry. Average Americans, hard-working, moms, dads, grannies and grandpas; we are the folks that have been identified as threats and are in the sights of this administration and the Left. Unbelievable, and if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes….

  • tngal

    These senior sisters face Force from the riot police
    and Farce from the president, yet still come out smiling.
    Crocheting dainty doilies is only a cover for their real job..
    Exposing the dirt at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and exposing bad policy whenever it rears its ugly head.

    (honestly the one on the right does not look like one to be trifled with )

  • texasgalt

    We look at the country and see so much to lose . . . and to avoid all hell breaking loose, we tend to negotiate, fearful of saying no. They look at the country and don’t much like it, so they are all in.

    They are prepared to destroy us and everything we stand for. We just want to go home for Christmas.

    We like to rally and carry clever signs. They beat the snot out of us with their precinct work . . . where the rubber really meets the road.

    Right now, it looks like November just might go our way. If it is a big victory and we don’t do everything to destroy them, including being totally ruthless in investigations, redistricting, appointments, repealing and on and on, they’ll be back, like any ruthless street fighter, to finish us.

    • penguin2

      our country “much” relates directly to their world view, which is driven by their quest for power, absolute power.

      I guess they can’t “go home for Christmas” if they really don’t know what Christmas is all about.

      Come November, we need to Remember, every last one of us.

      • texasgalt

        because a good 40% of the country is happy with what Obama is doing. They are just fine on the plantation as long as dinner is on time. Sad.

        Great diary, penquin.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    They open up discussions on matters we often don’t think about in depth.

    One has to wonder if there is some conservative think tank discussing this very same thing. Every comment brings up another aspect of the same thing but a different thread of the pattern or weave of what the left has wrought. Your comment about Americans being unique, for example, ties in a way with my comment about most of America being rejects of other countries and, yet, there is a group of us who would like nothing more than to be European again. Even, this immigration fight ties into that. Did you know Mexico teaches that those southwestern states were stolen from it rather than purchased? So, Mexico uses these people to “reconquer” by sending them here, not in pursuit of the American dream but to overwhelm this country and take back what it claims was stolen. Just like the Middle East blames all their troubles on the West, so does Mexico blame us.

    We rejects made this country what it is and now the backwards policies of these countries who rejected us and our forefathers want what we made. The only way to do that at this point is through a world government, aka the United Nations. What these countries will never understand is that they can’t have what we made, only destroy it with such actions because what we made started by being free to make, create, think, live, and be the way we choose rather than having everything mandated, including our very thoughts.

    • janis

      yesterday about how Human Rights International was really slamming Mexico for their treatment of illegal immigrants who traveled through Mexico in order to get to America. Seems Mexico only talks the talk, but doesn’t walk the walk. Gee, what a surprise. They don’t bother to see to it that these illegals are protected by any law, nor do they bother to do anything when so many of them are apparently raped, robbed, kidnapped for ransom, etc. It was an article at Yahoo News.

      Usually when there’s an article at Yahoo News, I can reliably count on a number of leftys showing up to approve of the bad guys and diss America. Not this time. I just read the first page of comments and was smiling the whole time. The tenor of the comments went mostly in this vein: Yeah, Mexico’s got a lot of room to talk about us! Look what they’re doing to brown people themselves! Etc.

      The comments that proved your point said that America’s treatment of illegal immigrants was the whole point about America: We considered them lawbreakers, but we treated them according to our laws, generally with respect and quite often with a whole lot of compassion. Totally unlike Mexico.

      • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

        as it is here with the double standards for Republicans and Democrats, so too, the rest of the world expects a higher standard of us than it does for anyone else… even as they do their utmost to destroy the things that put us at a higher standard in the first place.

        Instead of trying to bring us down, they should be working on elevating themselves but I suppose that is too much WORK after so many centuries of dependency on someone else making all the decisions.

    • penguin2

      they help us see the journey ahead, beside and every which way – important for our side, if we are to combat the Left.

      Your noting of one world government is a real and serious concern. Though I know there has been talk of this for decades, and maybe thwarted early on, but now those that seek such a state have moved so close to accomplishing it…..It might not be immediately obvious as a global head-of-state set up, but incrementally things are happening. The global economic/financial interdependency is an example of a few puzzle pieces already in place. Add in the European Union.

      Maybe some of these folks did not intend for such an outcome, but there are those I believe, who are happy seeing the chess pieces moved in this direction. The establishment of the United nations was one of their first steps for hands on global governing.

      Your last sentence makes an important point,

      What these countries will never understand is that they can

      • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

        because it senses the evil inherent in their plans for its use.However they rationalize it or whatever their “good” intentions, what they plan always become a great evil because it is not meant for such control of any other man.

        I find it rather contradicting of those who want that kind of control over others to be among the first to condemn slavery, because what else is it but slavery to be control by others and not your own person in your own right to choose how and what you wish to do with your life?

        • janis

          When they were opposed to slavery, it was because they could use it as club to bash America with. If they wish to enslave every single man, woman and child both here and everywhere else, it’s a noble thing because it’s for “our own good.” We’re too stupid to know what’s really good for us, hence we need a government to tell us how much salt we can put in our food, which vehicle we should/must drive, and, by all means, we are certainly too stupid to know how to raise our own children.

          We need them, you see, lest we raise up another generation of freedom-loving, America-loving, possibly God-loving right wing nut jobs. Oh, the horror….. It isn’t slavery if you mean well. That is, if meaning well is defined as “grimly determined to stamp out any tiny hint of personal freedom or choice any time it rears its frightfully persistent head.”

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            Eventually the evil they do catches up with them as well as they become victims of their own machinations. We’ve seen it happen over and over throughout history, yet, some still try, always thinking they can do it better, know better, won’t make the same “mistakes.”

            The problems with that are no matter what it will inevitably lead to the same ends because all their machinations are planned in a vacuum, a static place like a chess board, that does not account for the individual’s thoughts, actions, and how those affect the individual’s world because we are not a static people like those figures on the chess board.

            We are thinking, reasoning, and imaginative. The only way to control us as static beings would be to lobotomize us.

          • janis

            Although I’m certain that, with this bunch, the notion of doing that or something similar, maybe with drugs, has been discussed. And right you are about how they discount the individual at their own peril. They may think that by moving as fast as they have that they have the jump on us, and maybe they’re right. Time will tell.

            By my calculations. all they have done is make a whole lot more of us activists than any other circumstances would have. Besides, we’ve got Art and Vassar and Caleb and Erick Erickson and Moe and Neil. All they’ve got, for now, is Congress and the White House. I could almost feel sorry for them if I didn’t hold them in such contempt.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            So, I’m a sci-fi nut… Can’t remember the name of it right now but watched a movie not too long ago with Christian Bale in it as some kind of enforcement official. Everybody was required to take a daily dose of some drug that makes people always act and think alike but some people weren’t cooperating, hence the law enforcement.

            Those who stopped, or never started, cooperating collected art, music, and felt real raw emotions while those who were voluntarily drugged felt nothing but sameness.

            There was a lot more to it than that but the underlying message was that,like life will find a way, so too will individualism. There is no one size fits all.

            And then there was Serenity and the planet Miranda where the occupants were drugged through the air systems to make them calmer, which had a wildly opposite effect on a small portion of the population while the majority lay down and died for no apparent reason. The small portion became overly aggressive and cannibalistic .

            It would have to be something more permanent than a drug. Drugs or surgeries, the end results will still be the same and the atrocities will pile up on those who wield the power.

          • penguin2

            to feel. Unfortunately, I think we have seeds of that already in our society by the number of people presently medicated by psychotropic drugs. Drugs are absolutely useful and necessary, but when we have medicated so many of our boy children in school with Ritalin to subdue them, and so many adults take anti-depressants that suppress emotions, not just the depressed feelings, then we have a society and culture not coping.

            But drugs are definitely one way the government can control people, and encouraging the taking of them, can lead to an emotionally suppressed population – one that will not feel enough to try to break the chains that bind them. Certainly food for thought.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            I should dig it out tonight but the new Sherlock Holmes is calling.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            but in order to get to that point, they have to fill people up with false rage through race-baiters, social justice, and so on.

            And once again we’re back to root causes.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    You could do a book with them. Regnery is mssing the boat by not publishing some of the better diaries and comments. I hope the Left peeps in here today.

    I read it twice, and like others, am still digesting (as to what prompts I can find for my own sermons). That’s how it works in communities. What I like, and not that many here do, is your search for the genesis, or demon seed as the case may be, for a notion. Aquinas did that, Aristotle. Von Hayek, not that we’re in their league. But everything has a cause, and ever cause is attached to others making something more complex. In all things human and emotional, spiritual, intellectual, the best we can do is speculate, but as in law, an abundance of circumstantial evidence can lead us to a conclusion, and eventually action.

    • penguin2

      an excellent discussion diary, my favorite kind.

      I think it is essential to understand the source, the roots, if you will, of events, (I include people in this too). That allows us to be armed with knowledge and to more effectively respond. IOW, if we don’t know what the real fight is, we waste valuable resources in the wrong direction. Historical events had shadows long before their occurrence. You’ve been teaching us to pay attention to those shadows.

      I will add this to RS University, wasn’t sure, but the thread comments almost make one think of the early Tavern conversations, or letters exchanged between the Founding Fathers.

      • aesthete

        great job stimulating discourse. I too thought it was a fantastic diary.

        • penguin2

          take them apart and put them back together. Working with ideas brings us to action.

          I could almost picture us all with a pint in the Tavern, though the ladies had to have a different meeting place for such discussions. :-)

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            in the Tavern Part

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    that belongs in RedState University, so please amend your categories.

    • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

      A very good discussion of the differences of how we and them operate.

      As I might not agree with all of it, I am in agreement for the most part, about 90% in agreement with everyone else.

      These kind of diaries (posts) or whatever you want to call them will lead to a better understanding of the thoughts on our side.

      • penguin2

        post to grow and broadened the discussion. It is helpful to look at it from both sides, which we did in an entirely civil manner.

        I thank you.

      • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

        I’ll be in tomorrow around 6AM, but would like to know.
        Cheers

        • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

          I do agree that many in the Obama Admin and in the shadows are out to destroy the Constitution and out way of life. Does this make them evil people???? Well, no. I think that what they want to do is evil.

          I guess it has a lot to do with how I was brought up, in always looking for the good in people, and not making every one I disagree with the Devil.

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            I have done evil things in the past, blowing up frogs and fish and such with M80s as a kid. Does that make me Evil???? Or misguided in respecting living being, or just a kid with nothing else to do in the country as a kid.

            We all do evil things in our lives, no one is perfect, and sometimes people get taught stuff that is evil and do not believe i is evil. If they know it is evil and do it any way, then I would say someone is evil.

            maybe that can help you understand my viewpoint

          • Raven

            It doesn’t matter if they Are evil. They must be stopped.

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            they need to be stopped

          • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

            …in the words of our most lluminated one, it’s beyond our pay grade to say with certainty that one is evil (of the devil) as opposed to merely doing his work (useful idiots.) Still, if it were a horse race, I think a few bookies in heaven are giving pretty good odds, 4 to 5 that at least, a couple of those fellows will come in under the wire as full bred evil,
            Cheers

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            And there off in the Evil Derby

          • penguin2

            Maybe some of this is futuristic, and another thing to consider is that seeds of evil are probably always sown, it just depends on growing conditions around the seeds. In the political situations we’ve talked about, the outcome will depend on who is in power as far as the harvesting or the burning of the harvest.

            The trouble with this kind of enemy, it is not open warfare, (not yet) but insidious moves, and before you know it, you’re surrounded and not sure if reinforcements will arrive in time.

            And BRW, I’m sure those frogs thought you were certainly the most evil thing that had ever happened to them, but your parents didn’t think that, so thus they civilized you, and the wonderful good in you was harvested. :-)

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            My parents did not know about half the stuff we did until a few years ago. :)

            Living out in the middle of nowhere was fun, and having 2 older brothers we found a lot of things to do to occupy our time

  • Raven

    They are trying to destroy us to further their own ends.
    In the 60s and 70s, it was the rebellion against authority. Why does anyone rebel against authority? To place himself in authority.
    Now that they have that position, that authority, they are working to secure it, to prevent us from taking it back.

    Us? We’re defending ourselves. Finally.

    • penguin2

      Have to destroy us in order to achieve their ends. We have to deal with what they are doing, but first we have to be aware of it.

      • Raven

        At least on an unconscious level. That’s why the Tea Parties got so big so fast and have Stayed that way for over a year now.
        That’s why the Left’s claims of Racism and hatred don’t work anymore. We know and accept and will no longer tolerate what they are trying to do with those words.

        The only question is whether we have become aware in time. Secondary to that, has it happened soon enough to prevent significant bloodshed?

        • penguin2

          many of us here, Raven. That is what is scary. The Left has worked 100 years for this moment, they finally got everything in place, and will we be able to stop them finally, once and for all? Or will we be consumed in the fire…..an unbearable thought.

          • Raven

            That we will win.

            The Left has been pushing and pushing and winning in almost every part of their effort to set this situation up.

            We won on the 2nd Amendment.

            If it comes to it, do we have the stomach for the fight? If we do, we win. If we don’t, America is gone.

  • JadedByPolitics

    because I actually believe they are EVIL! There is too much plotting and planning involved to just be “for the common good”, those who are setting up Americans for a tax SLAUGHTER for their own benefits with the Cap & Tax bill shows the depths of their depravity. I can only conclude that the gathering of a board for the EmeraldCities Project which has Raines and Fannie Mae along with Obama and Gore with GE etc all getting DISGUSTINGLY FILTHY RICH on the backs of hard working Americans can only be EVIL.

    The Corrupt Media because they ideologically believe in the FANTASIES that Obama and Company spout are actively HIDING this TRUTH from Americans and if that isn’t EVIL then I cannot fathom what is. It is so simple to see how Corrupt and EVIL this all is and it is because Americans have been LIED to repeatably by the Corrupt Media and sheepishly went along for the “common good” just as in Nazi Germany and in Stalinist Russia and in Idi Amin’s rise to power, you can see it coming but are POWERLESS
    to stop it because it has advanced to far along which is apparent when you realize it comes from Democrats and Republicans.

    Lindsey Graham has decided to become part of the EVIL that is going to THRUST upon US never looking back at history to know it doesn’t end well!

    When that bill finally comes out of the closet I will call Graham’s office and ask WHY? WHY would you do this HORRIBLE thing to Americans? it is beyond shameful and I pray every day that WE can STOP THEM UNTIL November.

    • penguin2

      That’s why I started with the words associated with hatred and evil. Maybe seeing a few of them in action here and there and mildly displayed, is not the full definition of evil, but we are seeing the full out meaning of the words.

      The most important take on this: is that is the government displaying this behavior towards a portion of the populace. This cannot be underestimated. Fanning the flames of class warfare and race warfare. Is that any different than the governments of Nazi Germany and Russia under Stalin?

      Upthread I wrote this to BRW:

      Even though hatred can be misguided, it still can do significant damage, regardless of the reasons for it. In discussing the concept of evil that man can do and be capable of, I think you have to look at the idea that those of the Left that I am talking about are not really American anymore in the sense that we are. In other words, they don

      • penguin2

        cwilson upthread, noted some testimony of an FBI agent and Bill Ayers, here is the link:
        http://www.redstate.com/penguin2/2010/04/28/the-difference-between-them-and-us/#comment-443

        In 2001, Ayers also said they had not gone far enough or did enough in their efforts. Ultimately the radicals of the 60′s realized that they would not achieve their ends with bombs, and set about doing it insidiously, by infiltrating the cultural, academic, and legal institutions of America. (Actually, I believe they knew this about America decades before.) But they have succeeded in taking over so much, all we have to do is look around and we see that.

        Now it is the end-game, and do we think they will let us stop them?

        • JadedByPolitics

          they have committed themselves to this endgame for over 50 years and this is the pinnacle of their DRIVE, it will most assuredly get ugly between now and November but I truly believe in my heart that if those 80+ in the House and 10-11 in the Senate are elected and the BRAKES are applied that there is true HOPE but the bottom line if that does not occur will be SOCIALISM.

          This is the LINE IN THE SAND my friends and my heart aches when I think that everything I have known to be true of America will be lost for my children and grandchildren and that they truly will work day in and day out to pay for the ELITES to live like kings which of course what will be their lives if Cap & Tax passes.

          • Raven

            That will only happen if we each, individually, decide our lives and comfort are more important than the freedom we might win for our children.

            That would be a dark day indeed.

  • Brian Hibbert

    I recently had an exchange on the local paper’s message board that lead to me attending a session of a class taught at the local JR college.

    It started with me disputing the rantings of a person who turned out to be a sociology professor (mostly accusations of Tea Party’s being attended by only racists). It’s now looking like what I hope will be a more rational discussion of issues on the local level.

    The guy offered to “school” me on issues if I showed up at his classroom while he was lecturing on racism. The REALLY strange thing is that his lecture persona was completely different than his online persona. Online he’s full of ad hominems and hatred. In class, not so much (I was prepared to lodge a formal complaint with the college, but it’s not necessary). During a break in his lecture we had a discussion. One of the things he mentioned was the references to Obama’s regime as being racists. I countered that it was a term used against Bush as well, which he disputed saying he searched in vane and couldn’t find any such references. I’ve since pointed him to Byron York’s article with quotes from Chris Mathews, et al.

    The REALLY surprising part was that he claimed to be a republican who voted for Republicans up until 2008 and would not vote Republican again until the party changes. I gave him a variation of the change things from the inside, not by casting stones on the outside speech.

    I’m discovering more and more that the left isn’t completely stupid, they just know so much that isn’t so.

    • penguin2

      many, if not most of the Left who fall far short of the extreme, but are on a misguided path. It is the few on the very end of the continuum, coupled with their ability to influence their followers, that can lead us into mayhem. I have not sorted out what extremes they may go to, because that is pure speculation at this point.

      I do think that there are those capable of extremes, and I am not thinking blood in the streets, though there could be incidents. I tend to go with the insidious process knowing that potential, seeds have been planted, bits and pieces put in place, and then someday the outcome, becomes something people never would have believed. Today one might refer to it as the law of unintended consequences, tomorrow, who knows.

  • SusanAnne Hiller

    I think the best way to look at things is in their simplest terms. Breaking down the definitions is perfect. The differences between Dem or Rep grow increasingly vast, but those Democrats of past who still remain Democrats have yet to have the epiphany that their party has been hijacked by the far left. This particular segment of the party feeds on hatred and uses the sting of its bite (their words) to counter the Right. They are agitators and are causing this country to become fractured. I’ve never seen so much hatred against fellow Americans that I have seen since The One, the great uniter took office and during the campaign.

    • penguin2

      that whirled for me to write this post. It was the in your face, anything goes vitriol hurled toward the traditional average Americans that made me take notice. It is not Obama himself, who poses some of the threats we’re seeing, it is the radicals he is immersed with. The Left also has the MSM as its mouthpiece and loudspeaker; that and the infiltration of our social/cultural, academic and legal institutions by the far Left all lead to the sound of the clarion call. One has to take a look at history and pay attention. IMO, these puzzle pieces are connected and nothing happens in a vacuum in politics.

      Thank you, appreciate your insight.

  • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

    I will start off by saying anyone who thinks the media is left or right is kidding themselves. They’re corporate. They go where the money is. And the money is in juicy stories. They’re sharks, period. They don’t care where the blood comes from, they just know it when they smell it.

    It is absolute garbage to cry when the media doesn’t portray a story in the way you want them to and then either say nothing or cheer when they say or do something that plays to your personal ideology. The MSM is not guilty so much of bias – by and large – as much as it is of a complete and total lack of variety. Generally over 3 24hour cable news stations you only get five major stories a day. The same ones across all of them.

    The original post in question is really no better. You didn’t write this because it’s useful, constructive, or even relevant. You did it because you felt the writing style would evoke a bigger cheer than facts figures graphs and numbers. It’s just the way society works. We demand sexy and easy to digest things and always say we want Joe Friday just the facts ma’am. In the same way that women always say they want a nice guy but they really want a badass.

    I know that’s not the popular thing to say but that’s how it is. The media doesn’t work for us or them. They work for dollars. And that’s really for the better. You kind of don’t want to know how much more hostile they’d be to everyone if they cut out the cocktail parties and did the hard investigating.

    I had to lol at a phrase I read up farther “the Socialist-Statist-Tyranny state”. Anyone who thinks that’s an end game is just too prone to hysteria. Liberals are only so pro-government – by and large – as a result of the obstruction from inefficient corporations in this country. We all too often make the mistake of being too status quo. Socially, great idea. But business should always be moving forward and emerging technologies should always be encouraged.

    It’s fine and fun to say they’re drippy hippies and drill baby drill. But realistically renewable energy is a fantastic idea on every level, not the least of which are geographically spread and outsource resistant jobs. Had we been seeing the dollar signs in renewable energy earlier, we’d not only be ahead of the other continents, we’d have chipped away at their very idea that big government is where its at.

    In the end government will get credit for pushing a huge emerging economic segment over the hurdle when really private companies are responsible and have been begging for the go ahead for a long time. I think 100% renewable energy is not only a good goal, it should be THE goal. Why the HELL would anyone want to keep using oil unless there was no other choice? It’s an inefficient, flawed, exhaustible, last century fuel that funds terrorists. It makes about as much sense as you continuing to use an Apple IIe.

    • mailloux

      by Dan Rather was about money and not about ideology? And, the tea party participants are dangerous-racists meme is also money and not ideology? And the NY Times tanking is all about money and not ideology?

      penguin2′s post is complete and total accuracy.

      Take Care, mailloux

      • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

        that Dan rather was a company. Or that political memes were a company. Not that I didn’t already address the latter.

        The tea party are an amorphous loose group of people that self-describe themselves as NOT a true political party. Large parties, especially ones with no clear command structure, attract fringe groups that use the name. Those are usually the ones who get the screen time because it makes a sexier story.

        And I’ve already addressed the blood in the water mentality towards sexy stories.

        For the record I disapprove of the tea party exactly because they’re so amorphous and anti-establishment. Their fatal flaw is their inconsistency.

        • janis

          Do tell, bking, what have you done to improve the fortunes of conservative ideals and candidates in this country lately?

          • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

            And I drive seniors to the polls as this is mostly an elderly area.

            As for ideals, I am active within my church, I am frugal, and I rarely sin. Doesn’t get more ideal than that. I’ve managed to stop no less than three abortions through simple non-aggressive talking skills. That last part btw means more to me than any political campaign ever could.

            But I know. I don’t support a leaderless group. Woe is me.

        • mailloux

          Dan Rather worked for a company that willfully aired his fake, but accurate unverified tripe.

          One thing that may alleviate your boredom is to bone up on logic. You are pitifully in need of a short course on the topic.

          mailloux

          • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

            It doesn’t disprove my logic to say that they broke with standard operating procedure for ratings.

            You’re looking a situtation with the wrong lens. If there was a tape with an uncanny Al Gore double groping a woman it’d be on the air wall to wall.

            But we all know the MSM is not idiotic enough to be duped into airing a fake story. Would never happen!

      • penguin2

        premise that the media wasn’t biased, and only in it for the money, I wondered what parallel universe he was living in. We’d be better off if that was the case, because they would change their horrendously biased reporting. Instead, we can patiently watch them go out of business.

        I appreciate you trying to educate the fellow, challenges, always challenges……

        Thank you.

    • Achance
    • janis

      The rest of your bitter little comment has not a single thing to do with the subject of her diary. If you are so in love with the sound of your own keystrokes, then post your own diary and we’ll see how many wish to recommend it or bother with comments.

      Her diary was written to provoke a discussion, not a diatribe by someone who apparently didn’t even read it. Where did she mention “drippy hippies” or “drill baby drill”, hmmm? And your little rant about the media is not a part of this discussion either. She only mentioned the media with regard to their continuing and false commentary on Tea Parties and racism.

      In sum, you’re a sneering and disrespectful commenter. My prediction is that you won’t find yourself very welcome after going after someone like penguin2.

      • Achance
        • janis

          comment just provoked me. Especially after I wrote a lovely response to that other guy, the one who was bragging about being thread-pirate, or excusing his bad manners, and then when I went to post it, I got the dreaded “Must log in to comment” screen when I was just logged in not 5 minutes before that. Needless to say, the comment disappeared.

          Then I happened upon this one and it lit my fire again. Think I’ll go around and see if thread-pirate is still active. Might post another, shorter comment on him.

      • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

        I expanded upon the original subject into some of my own views. I addressed the ideas on media as well.

        I wasn’t going after penguin2. I disagreed. There are no sacred cows IMO. Good people are capable of bad views and judgments. Getting defensive never amounts to anything.

        Food for thought, chum.

        • janis

          you will find that penguin’s diary received a huge number of comments as well as recommends. Obviously, the majority of those who read and comment here agree with her, or, at the least, appreciate her point of view.

          You, on the other hand, not so much. Not one single person has agreed with your take on her diary. And I doubt that anyone will. I’m giving the over/under on your remaining time here as maybe 4 hours. And that’s generous.

          • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

            Throwing a temper tantrum because I used a colloquialism just shows how emotional you’re getting.

            I could honestly care what a majority think. A majority of congress and the house are liberals. I don’t follow their lead. And the Tea Party, the major force in politics today doesn’t abide by any percieved majority either.

            I am entitled to my opinion. You are entitled to disagree. Disagreements are healthy, at least to a real conservative.

          • janis
        • penguin2

          and “judgments.” Considering that my post has historical facts and present day incidents well documented, I will ask you to back up remarks like that.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

            Over on another thread, Bking opines that it is not conservative to criticize rape. If he wasn’t saying that to be obnoxious, he needs his lithium, and should not be allowed loose in public without carefully planned supervision.

          • penguin2

            a bit lost. Wonder what set him off today……

          • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

            Be more accurate next time. But yes, your way of saying thing is just as true.

            You can be as condescending as you want. Let’s see you criticize rape victims in our real life and see how long you stay out of a hospital.

          • janis

            Or just more of your blustering ignorance? And, by the way, what does the word “politize” mean.

          • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

            If you go into Harlem and scream the N word you’d get stabbed too. That’s not a threat either. It’s just a reality. People respond viscerally to certain situations. It’s why the legal system has this thing called mitigating circumstances.

            Are you really that desperate for straws?

          • janis
          • Scope

            He surely wouldn’t have had the opportunity to dirty the site if some didn’t think they could best a Liberal. It doesn’t add anything constructive to the site, and his comments are burned into the diary forevermore. Challenges are one thing, burning this into infinity is another.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
    • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

      blamed for the worst crash this country has ever seen, and it hasn’t even hit yet.
      Keep cheering his out of control spending, you are part of the problem.

    • E Pluribus Unum
      • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

        Even his personal blog is skin-color obsessed.

    • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

      What the hell does this have to do with this post.

      I thought her post was excellent even though I do not agree with it 100%.

      And you are a fool to think that MSM is not biased. The Alphabet soup stations are all biased to the left and one only one is skewed anywhere close to the right (Fox), and I still think they suck along with the rest of them.

      • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

        but overall not incredibly biased. They love sex scandals, corruption, and have an incredibly short memory.

        I agree with you on the suckitude of every alphabet soup news place though. I generally tend to like the news I get from the Nintendo Wii News Channel. It’s a condensed AP feed and generally cuts the fat. And it’s updated three times a day so they don’t rush a story.

        It’s sad that a feed on a gaming console is better than all the cable news stations combined.

        • Bill S

          because the MSM is sooooo fond of scandals. They jumped right on that one, didn’t they?

          First rule of holes applies here.

          • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

            The National Enquirer has no compunction about paying top dollar for stories. It’s not a hole, it’s just unrelated to what I’m talking about. TMZ also pays for stories and surprise surprise they’re the first ones to get pictures of celebrities in jail from security cameras inside the jail.

            It doesn’t disprove my argument to point out that gossip publications have zero ethics lol.

          • aesthete

            “It doesn

    • itrytobenice

      If you think you can come here and tell us that the MFM is not biased, you have totally wasted your time.

      And if you think wind and solar power are ever going to do anything besides redirect our tax dollars to some politician’s buddy, you’re full of $#%$.

      • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

        Forget that it has absolutely nothing to do with anything penguin wrote and look at the hate spewed within it: Insults, proselytizing a scam, and hate filled denial.

        We really should thank him for giving us a perfect example of one of the thoughts with which the diary was written.

      • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

        and I’m not humiliated.

        Also, I don’t think you know much about either if you think that wind and solar won’t amount to much. With either technology the near total cost is in the installation and after that the costs are minimal. Once you add the economy of scale it’s even better.

        You ought to do some research. America’s wind potential, even by the 15 year old study that takes into account none of the current technologies was 3x current capacity and now is closer to 9x our total usage. All jobs that stay here. None of them funding Iran.

        http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/02/better-wind-resource-maps/

        • penguin2

          You have not responded to my replies to you, and as the diarist you seem to be so unhappy about, I would appreciate you proving your assertions.

          • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

            You are not the only person in this thread. Wait your turn and I’ll get to you.

          • E Pluribus Unum

            starting off on a whole tangent that is either minimally relevant or not relevant at all to the diary is called threadjacking.

            You did it. Address penguin now. When you poop in the diarist’s rose garden, it is ALWAYS her turn,

          • janis

            came from you. You are an insult to all RedState members who post here in good faith. You threadjack, insult, and don’t bother to answer the questions put to you to ask you to back up your comments.

            You don’t belong here.

          • penguin2

            I think bking has gone far enough.

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            Hinz Rule

        • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

          who feel no shame for anything are incapable of being.

          Of course you feel no humiliation.

          Someone up thread mentioned you need a course in logic. I suggest you listen to his suggestion. It might ease your boredom a bit… or make your head explode which would also ease your boredom.

          You started a rant that had little to nothing to do with the original diary, which has garnered well over 100 comments before you made your appearance for some cheap thrills. Your purpose has been fulfilled. You got the reaction you wanted: ATTENTION.

          And you keep digging the hole you made deeper. I don’t know who you are and whether you’ve said anything here worth reading in your 7 months but your actions today are those of a Moby, someone who pretends to be something he isn’t.

          Penguin is one of the most highly respected members at RedState because she THINKS (for me the most highly respected, no offense to the owners and admins).

          You? Not so much. The problem isn’t that you disagreed with her but the manner in which you did it, with hateful rhetoric to attack rather than discuss, with all the hallmarks of leftist talking points and manners.

          Yet, she responds to you with more respect than you’ve shown her or anyone else pointing out where you are wrong in the facts that inform your opinion.

        • itrytobenice

          Of course, you’re right. Wind and solar are magnificent, reliable, cheap, plentiful sources of power and all those d@mn greedy capitalists in this country aren’t using it because we hate otters, seals and caribou.

          It’s a good thing you came along to help us see the light. Now with the solar lighting the way, energy independence is just days away. Especially with the Indonesian Imbecile leading the way.

    • Bill S

      I didn’t have to read the rest, because it revealed you as an idiot.

      There have been a number of studies done that show the slant of the mainstream media. But most intelligent individuals see it without needing a study.

      You apparently are not one of them.

      • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

        not that you’re too lazy to read, it’s that you’re in an ivory tower where you’re too good to have to read the posts of others.

        Had you actually read, I stated amongst other things that media is slanted towards juicy stories. They’re pretty much TMZ with fancy suits at this point.

        • janis
        • Bill S

          you’re an idiot who has beclowned himself thoroughly on this thread and whose posts aren’t worth reading.

          Is that clear enough for you?

          • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

            Insults just show the weakness of your position.

            Is that clear enough for you?

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            Really????

            It must be terrible since you started out weak and are further weakening your own position because you’ve been nothing but insult from the first post.

            Let’s start with the title of the first comment:

            “Complete and total whining”

            “absolute garbage”

            “The original post in question is really no better.”

            “just too prone to hysteria”

            So… if insults weaken your position where does that leave you?

          • Bill S

            me banning you.

            Which I can.

            But I won’t, because my colleagues tell me that being an idiot isn’t enough. Too bad, because you’d have been gone hours ago.

            (And by the way, I never would have noticed you pathetic post if not for a complaint email)

          • penguin2

            The rest is threadjacking. That is why I called Hinz rule.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            … and his account just had a glitch.

    • penguin2

      But I will give you the courtesy of my own reply. For the most part, I believe you are in the wrong diary, but I can’t tell where you really need to be. You lost it in your first paragraph, when you said,
      “anyone who thinks the media is left or right is kidding themselves.” That’s probably one of the most ludicrous statements that anyone from both sides has heard. The Leftist media is doing so well, I am looking forward to the day I can cheer their marching off a cliff. Maybe you need to talk to them about their business model.

      It’s fine if you think that my intentions in writing it were neither “useful, constructive or even relevant.” You are entitled to your opinion. OTOH, for the record, I will note that everything I wrote I backed up with historical facts, links to articles, and reasonably intelligent reasoning. I don’t think there is anything wrong with my skills in that area and certainly no ulterior motives.

      Though you mock my phrase “Socialist-Statist-Tyranny” you ought to do a little research and educate yourself, because the Leftists themselves believe in this and follow philosophies to obtain it. They will not admit it to the public because they would run out of town if the truth was known. If the Marxist, Obama, had portrayed his true colors, he would not have been elected. To us, it is tyranny to try and transform America and take down the foundation of her Constitution that established this nation.

      This diary did not require charts and graphs. If you want to discuss business models and Obama’s economy, write a diary and we have a number of very smart people who will engage you in the pros and cons, I’m sure.

      We also have an energy expert, Vladimir, an FP contributor and if you read his posts, he will tell you about energy.

      Not much more that I can say, but you are not fooling anyone but yourself, if you believe some of the things you yourself wrote.

      • http://boredwhiteguy.blogspot.com/ bking

        You even sound like a liberal. “I will grace you with my presenece and my truths are so self-evident I needn’t sully myself with such ludicrous notions. And I shan’t even entertain that I need facts and figures” LOL. You’d fit in right at Daily Hoes.

        “Educate yourself.” I have. I didn’t go to Conspiracy Theory University so you’ll have to excuse me when I see less-saucy business decisions where you see super-saucy-liberal plots. If there’s anything I’ve learned from many decades of life it is that left wing ideology is a revolving door of purity tests that leaves them literally incapable of maintaining a united front.

        Large corporations are inherently apolitical. They don’t care as long as they’re making money. If their brand of opinion shows have a certain political persuasion it is just that: branding. The reason Fox has a conservative opinion slant and the others don’t is because the others realize that Fox has that market cornered. MSNBC isn’t liberal. They just court that in their evening opinion shows, which isn’t actually classified as news. GE, their current owner, and their soon to be owner (I forget if it’s comcast or viacom) are definately definately not liberal.

        Studies have shown that it’s actually the viewer who is biased. Literally if all three major news stations offered the same news with the same tone you would take it differently based on your own preconceived notions of slant on the basis of channel and personality. Which is actually consistent with humans psychologically. See also: placebo effect, yellow vs white cheese, and generic vs name brand.

        Long story short, the more you read into it the less its about politics and the more its about making a buck. And in an objective world be prepared to take it on the chin with a smile when bad news hits guys you hold in high regard.

        • penguin2

          anyone around here needs to know that you are a Leftist troll. You are the one who came into the diary with a rant, which had nothing to do with the diary. You have threadjacked, and I have asked you to back up several of the assertions you have made.

          I know you like to sound all smug, but insulting me is only a reflection on you. And as Steph said upthread you are actually displaying a good example of one of the concepts I did present in my diary.

          At this point, I think that the moderators can examine what we call “good faith” intentions of being here. If you had actually tried to dialogue civilly about the actual content of my diary, that would be one thing, but you have not done so.

          • cactusjack

            ha ha ha ROFL, that was a good one penguin2, I am trying to imagine what a “leftist troll” looks like, but it is hard to do, there are so many freakish types from real life, to chose from!

            By the way on that media thing, in 2004 Evan Thomas editor in chief of Newsweek admitted, on the record, their outright support of John Kerry was worth, he estimated, 5 percentage points in the 2004 election. And yes it was closer than it should have been. We all knew MSM was in the tank for lib Dems but that was in my recollection first time an icon in the pack, actually admitted they were just a party organ for the Dems. To wit, pro-Bush coverage inetntionally shunned, pro-Kerry stuff picked to lead with, in their editorial meetings. If anything it’s only gotten more shameless since then.

            But all these bking posts I read are somehow making me hungry I’m going to go get a Whopper and a Coke.

          • penguin2

            and place it on my computer, next to my penguin Beanie Baby.

            I remember reading about the 5% points for Kerry. There is no doubt in my mind that media headlines, magazine covers and biased TV reporting, are intended to be an insidious form of brainwashing. Everyone knows that. Analysis of new accounts frequently show the negative reports for members of our side vs the number of negative ones for their side. Our people are disproportionately higher.

            Another example is the “name that party” when it is bad stuff about the democrats vs us. Every time they can associate Republican with our guy – mind you, two generations removed – they do. But when it is a Democrat, page 76, line 43.

            Yes, I think I’ll look for one of those little old purple, maybe green haired troll dolls. :-)

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
          • janis
    • JadedByPolitics

      FOX “appears” to be Conservative because ALL the other stations are so freaking far to the left as to give a human being whiplash.

      You are correct about one thing though they are corporate and they go where the money is and for GE that is with Cap & Tax and to get to that they NEEDED Democrats and they bought them and they build them up on their newscasts and their employee’s vote for them 90% of the time and that is just NBC but I don’t need to tell you that because your ignorance knows no bounds.

      BTW idiot do NOT come flying in here and tell OUR resident Penquin she is a liberal and crapping on her insightful diary that has said what others around the internet have also said today. Rush Limbaugh actually utilized a diary from American Thinker that takes on the EVIL or as that diarist said “stranger” in our midst definitely inherently EVIL because Socialism always is done by EVIL men
      This kind and gentle woman has fought for Conservatives for years and you have shown your STUPIDITY by even saying it.

      Why don’t you scamper on back to your den of inequity over at the Kos and leave WE The People to get down to the business of destroying the Democrats on November 2nd 2010, because as a lefty you will know that the Conservative Revolution is coming, GET READY!

      • janis

        When WILL these people learn not to take on the flippered one? It never ends well for them.

        • JadedByPolitics

          …..

          • http://www.laborunionreport.combrand/brhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

            I see he’s gone.

            Wonder what took so long…?

            http://www.redstate.com/jeffdunetz/2010/04/24/unions-spreading-fear-in-illinois-you-wont-see-this-on-msnbc/#comment-445

      • penguin2

        and he is quoting Mr. Weissberg, and I thought,”yes” that is what I was saying, and not only were our concepts of Evil similar, but we had pegged the ones doing it. I haven’t had time to read his post, but Rush also quoted something about the others with Obama, and on Wednesday, I had also said this upthread to BRW:

        In discussing the concept of evil that man can do and be capable of, I think you have to look at the idea that those of the Left that I am talking about are not really American anymore in the sense that we are. In other words, they don

    • penguin2

      to make mincemeat out of trolls. I really appreciate your efforts. When I read my diary in the future, and review the comments, dking will be just artifact, while I enjoy reading the comments of my great friends defending my diary.

      Thank you all.

  • http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish/ reelman

    The modern national democrats are secular socialists…they have no ethical or moral boundaries…they must use distractions, lies and smears to sell their toxic policies or prevent challenges/questions.
    So how can anyone be shocked or surprised at anything they say or do?

    http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

  • muffin

    People with morals and character will always take the high road. We do not spew hatred and anger. We protest peaceably without violence.

    • penguin2
  • klondike

    Nothing triggers a liberal’s angry side quicker than a well-reasoned and realistic common sense argument or observation.

    Beautifully articulated and capably defended. Well done!

  • http://www.laborunionreport.combrand/brhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

    Do you (or other fellow RSers) know WHY, there is so much hatred?

    If you can identify WHY, then it helps to combat it.

    Here’s is an observation from my years “on (and fighting) the other side:”

    The Left (and, by this, I mean the main culprits you usually think of…unions, enviros, et al.) view themselves as the consummate underdogs–fighting the tyranny of their betters (the wealthy, the powerful, the imperialists, etc).

    As underdogs, there is a profound sense of inferiority, which then gives rise to a sense of ‘bully behavior.’ I like to think of it as hyena-pack like behavior.

    Now, when they view themselves as the moral fighting the immoral (and given the propensity toward collectivism), they truly believe ‘the ends justify the means’ (which is one of many reasons I left).

    As such, they act out as most schoolyard bullies do…loudly, offensively and demanding.

    However, they are as flummoxed (as most schoolyard bullies are) when you punch them on the nose (figuratively speaking here, lest I be accused of inducing seditious behavior).

    The best example I can use to illustrate is Sarah Palin’s speech at the RNC convention. In that 35-40 minute speech, she eviscerated a year-long campaign of imagery. Her (and McCain’s) only problem was they dropped the ball right after that. [Note: This is in reference to the tactic, not the substance of McCain's candidacy...separate issue on that.]

    Now, there are probably more technical terms to put this in; however, it really isn’t anymore difficult than this:

    The left views itself as inferior; it must take down all that causes it pain and inequality (ie., capitalism); the ends justify the means; they have developed tactics to do it (Alinsky); and they can be beat ONLY IF enough people are wise to them.

    Just some thoughts from 25+ years in this.

    • E Pluribus Unum

      A whole lot of us in the blogging class are onto them. the trouble is in getting that knowledge into the general population.

      I think we’re making inroads on that, but it is a big chore.

      • http://www.laborunionreport.combrand/brhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

        that would be so easy for the GOP to knock it out of the park with, given the UAW bailouts.

        Part of the problem is, I think, those of us “on the ground” doing the fighting versus those with the money and focus groups. The DC crowd is lagging in their reaction time.

        • E Pluribus Unum

          I am hip to some stuff.

    • penguin2

      where you are talking about the groups that seem to fall into the natural recruitment for this kind of thing, that they are plagued by an inferiority complex, and then, anger for this perceived “weakness.” I think that addresses the large groups that fall sway to the vitriol and class envy and warfare.

      Maybe this is where some of the leaders come from, as in up through the ranks, but what about those that do not start from the this strata. Some of the most vitriolic voices come from people who have not had to struggle economically, they actually came from the privileged classes.

      As I said, something for penguin to ponder on and see where it leads. Thank you.

      • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

        “Some of the most vitriolic voices come from people who have not had to struggle economically, they actually came from the privileged classes. ”

        They’ve never been challenged, never had to compete for resources, never had to use their brains beyond fulfilling their own desires. At some level they understand their lives are really empty but because they’ve never done anything to change their circumstances and be productive or do anything worthwhile, they can develop an inferiority complex the size of Mt. Rushmore.

        Because they don’t understand the concept of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps, they seek to bring everyone else down to their level so they no longer have to feel inferior. So, we should all be miserable because they are.

      • http://www.laborunionreport.combrand/brhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport
    • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

      I wrote a “mother of all liberalism” piece last year, a little tongue in cheek. Then after watching Sayat’s speech i wanted to go back and revise it, based on his observations about the Left’s ability to discriminate anything. My son sent this, below added even more.
      I think you might enjoy the connection to Samuel and the Isarelites demand for a king; (from Bible.org.)\

      We tend to get what we ask for…progressives and leftists know this so they eventuate circumstances and politics that casue people to “ask” for a king.
      I read bible.org about Samuel’s story and God’s criteria for a king.

      Their conclusion is really, really good.

      “Why then, even after Samuel warns the Israelites about the high cost of kingship, do the Israelites reject his warning and demand to have their king? Why are men willing to pay such a high price for so little? I think I know the answer, and I believe it is clearly implied in our text. Men loathe grace. It is detestable and loathsome, because it is charity. Grace does not bolster our pride; it produces humility. When we pay for something (by works or money), we think we own it. We think that when we pay for something we are in control. When we receive grace, we are not in control. God is in control. Grace is sovereignly bestowed, and so we cannot dictate how and when God will grant it to us; we cannot control its benefits. But good old fashioned work (we falsely suppose) obliges God to bless us. When we do the right things, God must respond predictably. We are in control. God becomes our servant. And so men would rather pay

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    If you have the time, you may want to watch the Evan Sayet address to the Heritage Foundation about his theory of why the liberals “think” they way they do.

    http://www.redstate.com/vassar/2010/04/21/the-swat-that-never-was-or-the-power-of-the-double-nintendo/#comment-1922

    For Liberty,
    ColdWarrior, PC
    Conservatives, UNITE! CHANGE the Republican Party and the world by UNITING INSIDE the Party as precinct committeemen. NOW!
    P.S. Plus, it

    • http://www.laborunionreport.combrand/brhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

      so I’ll watch it tomorrow.

      Thanks!!!

    • klondike

      So many quotes. Where to begin. I still can’t quite grasp how it took 9-11 to get Mr. Sayet’s attention, I have to say that something good comes out of bad things.

      CW, watching that video helped explain a lot to me.

      Some of Mr. Sayet’s quotes:

      “Rational and moral thought is an act of bigotry. The only way to eliminate bigotry is to eliminate rational thought.”

      “Raised to believe that indiscriminateness is a moral imperative, because its opposite is the evil of having discriminated. In order to eliminate discrimination the modern liberal has opted to become utterly undiscriminate.”

      “In order to not discriminate, we have to intentionally make ourselves stupid. We have to pretend that we do not know some of the things we do know.” (Example: the airports – frisking an 80-something grandmother instead of 4 imams seeking to board a plane while saying allah akbar.)

      “In order to eliminate discrimination, the modern liberal has opted to become utterly indiscriminate. The problem is, of course, the ability to discriminate, to thoughtfully choose the better available option is the essence of rational thought. So, quite literally, we are dealing with the whole of western Europe and today’s Democratic Party, dominated as it is by this philosophy, that rejects rational thought as a hate crime.”

      “I believe that what you say is the undisputed truth, but I have to see things my own way, just to keep myself in my youth. That is so much the mindset of the modern liberals. It’s not that they’re not aware of all the things we’re aware of – it’s that they need to reject them, in order to remain in this “5-year-old” utopia that they have been told is the only hope for mankind. A mindless indiscriminateness. What you are left with is not only adult citizens of voting age who cannot judge their own positions but who are virulently antagonistic to any position other than their own. Why? Because when you’ve been brought up to believe that indiscriminateness is a moral imperative, any position other than their own must have employed discrimination.”

      It gets better after the quotes.

      Thank you, CW, for bringing that video to our attention, and for pointing us toward Vassar’s diary, which I had missed.

      To both of you, well done.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    Talk about back alley brawlers. Bare knuckles, too? Sad I missed it, but glad, as well. Last time I was hit by a flying beer bottle I missed work for a week. I swore I’d never back out of a barroom again.
    Well done. Well done. Bking will think twice, as will anyone else who peeped in. A real rat pack. Piranha. Well done.

    Best thing, you all stayed on point, never lost focus.

    I can’t wait to see what Bernie has to say. He may send all of you a recruitment letter.

    • penguin2

      Well, all except dking. We were hoping at least one would show up. Would have loved to reason with him, just wasn’t possible. Actually, we reasoned with him, it was dking that was unreasonable. :-)

      • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

        (Sent to me a few minutes ago-VB.)

        Dittos to what Vassar said about the content of the debate. Pretty high class, all in all, I’d say.

        I can’t say for sure the fellow was a sleeper, or even a leftie. My definition of a troll may be different from yours. His fallback into the personal diatribe and ad hominum, which was his opener,”whiner”, is not entirely a left-wing attribute.

        If you searched him, you saw that he’d been on Red State for 7 mos, but only since the 25th of April had been active with comments. His only diary was posted a few minutes after he began the fight with you, Penguin. (Not very deep, grade school conservatism, easy to fake.) I’m sure he never saw what was coming next (niceness always encourages bullies) and never quite knew what hit him.

        But the timing of his post is especially of interest to me, as he waited 2 days before posting it. It had a purpose.
        So, 1) He did not read the diary by accident. Not only because it was No 1 on the hit parade. He had a purpose, or, as is just as likely, someone else had a purpose. This makes it more likely that he is/was an agent of Left, hanging around for 7 months for for a particular moment.
        2) This also means the diary itself has had an impact somewhere else. That means there’s bragging rights for Penguin, but also for all of you who contributed, not just against this one person, but in earlier comments. I read enough here to know you do seem to run together as a team, so Bushmills may be right in calling you piranha. I like Rat Pack. since I have my own Scat Patrol. You do a helluva job.
        In reading the post, I can’t say what specific statement or thought process got to them, but it did. Something you said got their attention, which means, also, it scared them. Good.

        3) I am sorry you had him tossed. I don’t know the rules, or pay that much attention to them anyway, but you might have found a little more had he been able to come back again, which he may, under another aka. But by tagging them you can get a little sense of what they’re doing here.
        Thanks for a Saturday’s entertainment.
        Bernie

        • janis

          We came away with tattered bits of his shirt and pants, and I do believe he threw his shoes at us before he finally got thrown out the door. There are some we like to keep around for batting practice, but this guy committed the unforgivable crime of dissing penguin. That’s not allowed in these parts.

          On the other hand, as I have told her elsewhere, we send her out on her white pony with a garland of pretty posies around her neck, looking harmless as all heck. The rest of us hide in the tall grass and then go Berserkers on the ones who show up. We’re a fun-loving bunch.

          • penguin2

            my pony and garland intact.

            Love the shoe throwing at the end. I can picture it now. :-)

          • muffin

            He will be more able to put BOTH of his feet in his mouth. :)

        • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

          if he was more f the Libertarian variety. Not exactly a troll, but a trouble maker from the Young Turks type of Libertarians or a Ronulan.

          Because he did not seem like a Lefty troll, but a arrogant know it all.

          • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

            Bernie thinks in terms of Left-Right, but you have a point worth watching more closely. Some libertarians are almost mirror-images.

          • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

            sounded like one of my friends who was more Liberal, until he found out Obama was just another politician, And now he vows to vote for neither the Dems or the Reps, and likes a lot of the ideas of Ron Paul.

        • penguin2

          Thank you Mr. Chumm for weighing in and your analysis.

          I am absolutely fascinated by your take on why dking did what he did and the timing of his activation. I have noticed this before with some that come from the Left, they’ll have a long-term dormant account, and then all of a sudden, it is activated. Makes me think that there are any number of folks just like him in the building waiting to come out of the woodwork.

          Yes, Mr. Chumm, not only the diary, but the indepth and comprehensive comments by the participants, really helped to explore what I wrote. My term for that in diaries here, is helping a diary “grow.” You’re right, I have no idea what it was that touched him (or others) off, but maybe the post indicates that we know what we are seeing and naming it, so to speak.

          Lastly, he was tossed for saying “I’d fit in with the Daily Hoes.” If he had said Kos, that would have just shown him as continuing to be an idiot, but he crossed a line. They don’t lock one’s account for being an idiot, but certain lines are unacceptable. As you said, the Left is monitoring everything here, and if remarks like that are allowed to stand, they can take it and try and hold it against RS. Now, personally, he insulted me more for saying I sounded like a liberal, than my fitting in at the Daily Kos. I also believe that he kept deliberately throwing incendiary bombs, to elicit reactions. At some point it became obvious that he was dealing outright in bad faith.

          This penguin lady is humbled that you stopped by my diary and gave such insightful feedback. Thank you.

    • http://stixblog.com Black River Wolf

      after the recruitment there is a salary involved LOL

      When someone comes by with no intention of debate, we need to take action. Debate is fine, but threadjacking and condescension is not tolerated.

  • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

    In the case of the Jews in particular, that process was hastened by the ancient ghetto system, while in the other cases, tribal, religious and class distinctions were often at work. While it can become possible, as our own history shows, for near relations to be stirred to mutual enmity (and even then, physical distance exacerbated the other factors), the flames of hatred can be kindled much faster upon the imagined than upon the known.

    One of the many social, theological and political threads leading to the current impasse is that the cultural right, while mostly maintaining–as you point out–a corrective influence over its own native tendency to dehumanize those on the left, has unnecessarily succeeded in practically distancing itself from the left. This de facto self-ghettoization is now producing the bitter irony of the right crying foul at its Other-demonization by the left after having largely and voluntarily disengaged itself from some of the highest ground of civic persuasion.

    There isn’t time to more than list several of the major factors which led many–I know it’s not all, and to those of you who have long been on duty, you are heroes in my book, and may you live to see the reserves!–to this effectual surrender, but hopefully the wise will be able to discern common threads and consider the cost of retaking the field as not too dear for the results:

    • In violation of our own principles of limited government, we have insisted that our elected officials not merely govern and defend, and those well, but also serve as parents, pastors, teachers, coaches and cheer-leaders. See our treatment of Bush, G.W. No, those responsibilities are our own, and transferring them away is in its own way as much a sign of entitlement as that of which the left is guilty.
    • Similarly, we have transferred the ancient human art of persuasion and instruction–from parent to child, husband to wife, learned to unlearned, and between neighbor and neighbor, all in settings of mutual accountability–to the instruments of mass consumer media. While the latter should have been welcomed for the advantages of immediate dissemination of information, its power lies almost entirely in reinforcement rather than in persuasion, which takes time and wrestling through issues with known and trusted persons.
    • The ceding of the big, bad, blue cities was already underway, but accelerated to a critical rate during many of our lifetimes, with the implicit acknowledgment that conservative ideology can neither survive in those environments nor possibly be communicated to those most needing to be confronted by it. There was still a chance to pursue Happiness and chase the Dream if we could just get far enough away. I am confident that many have received their reward in full.
    • As offshoots of the previous factor, massive amounts of political capital were expended to ensure that urban horrors would not encroach on the heartland, but beyond the occasional short ad on the (simultaneously hated and loved–Boromir’s temptation!) MSM around election time, there was rarely a sense that more boots permanently on the ground–not legislating, but doing the oh-so-mundane patrols in front of classrooms, behind desks, making eye contact in the cramped aisles of the bodega, making sure some of the kids on the block understood the value of life, having neighbors over (even if it meant learning how to discreetly stomp on the roach that slipped out of his pant cuff between catechism questions), raising children who could be quickly at home in any social environment on earth, with a long-thought answer for every question of substance–would have any effect in the long run.
    • Most seriously, much of the right has become indistinguishable from the left in its fundamental assumption of a fully Pelagian, moralistic-therapeutic-deism* in which the sovereign Self is served by a compliant deity who exists to meet its every need. The two sides manifest it in markedly different ways, true; but the disease is one.

    For several reasons, I wish the readers here could know some of the heroes I have known; one thing they hold in common is a perky determination that is shared by those peculiar people in your midst who, knowing the evil in their own hearts, are not all that shocked by that in their neighbors’, and happily spend much less time lamenting the effects of the latter than making most of the light while it still day. Something about salt and light. But maybe those things don’t matter that much anymore to many of us.

    * coined by Christian Smith, Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers

    • aesthete

      (even if you *are* a dirty Calvinist ;) ), but I don’t see what it has to do with penguin’s diary. As far as I know, she didn’t make any claims concerning God at all.

      • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

        (although Ken Jones, pastor of Greater Union Baptist Church in Compton, CA takes the cake–he speaks of having lost friends not only among Catholics and evangelicals for being reformed and Calvinist, and among liberals for being conservative, but also among blacks to whom either category indicates not merely a possible offense against God but, far worse, capitulation to the Man–this in spite of rich reformed roots in the black community. Recommending more here:
        On Being Black and Reformed: A New Perspective on the African-American Christian Experience, Anthony J. Carter
        Glory Road: The Journeys of 10 African-Americans into Reformed Christianity, Anthony J. Carter, Ed.
        The Decline of African American Theology: From Biblical Faith to Cultural Captivity, Thabiti M. Anyabwile
        Jones pops up in one or more of those.)

        Not connected to the OP? Not surprised to hear it, but that wasn’t my intent. If I read Penguin2 right, she was probing the increased exhibition of evil on the part of some on the left. The heart of my apparently over-elliptical response would be the equivalent of Timmy’s Dad, upon hearing that Timmy was being picked on more than usual of late and assuring his son that justice would be applied–which occupied most of the legit comments above–also asking Timmy the necessary “can you think of anything you might have done or said that would have made them this upset with you”? Some of us are doomed to attempt to prevent overkill, it seems:

        Frodo had been in the battle, but he had not drawn sword, and his chief part had been to prevent the hobbits in their wrath at their losses, from slaying those of their enemies who threw down their weapons. (The Return of the King, Tolkien)

        As far as claims concerning God, well, I did make it through the first 4 of my 5 points (my bullet points, that is, not THOSE 5 points ;.) ) without “going there”, but then I thought I could get one freebie due to extended definitions and applications in the OP about “good” and “evil”–which in most peoples’ minds are more than tangentially theological, no?

    • penguin2

      I knew there were a number of approaches to looking at evil. I think you’re referencing some significant social-cultural-religious aspects of it, thus the influence on the people/population and ultimately what they do or choose not to do. I tried to approach it from the manifestations of it in the political/social context.

      For myself, though not naive, even though I do know that evil can exist in peoples hearts, and display itself in such unimaginable forms, (as the outright historical atrocities I’ve noted) I think it can be shocking. In this case, it is valid for those of us who do not look for evil to be surprised and taken aback. I believe that there are many who look for the good in another person, maybe we end up being disappointed at the outcome, but nevertheless we start with that premise.

      My diary is addressing those who do and say hateful-evil things not only because they seek to have power and dominion over their fellow man, but also, because they do not see their fellow man as “worthy” or “good.”

      You wrote some interesting observations, ones that I like to think about in other contexts. As I have mentioned before, I am not quite up to your level of scholarly philosophy, but I glean out of your words things to ponder.

      • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

        at you personally, but at those who foolishly and short-sightedly reduced the possibility of real people on the left having meaningful human contact with real people on the right.

        The difficulty with restricting definitions of good and evil to social/political criteria is that both sides can find full justification for demonizing the other. While workable political constructs can be hammered out using purely natural means, they do not tend to venture into the realm of “good” and “evil”, but self-restrict to “right/wrong”, “just/unjust”, “helpful/unhelpful”. The good/evil distinction, in contrast, goes to the nature of man himself, which requires the distinction be kicked upstairs into theology–and there we find rather more stringent applications that have very little to do with political affiliation.

        The genius of the American experiment was the unwritten assumption that a variously corrupted society could be most safely governed with widely-separated and inter-dependent powers. Once the society as a whole swung to a rampantly Pelagian view of man, with man no longer worthy of just treatment due to the lingering imprint of the imago Dei but rather due to an inherent seed of perfectable goodness, each side can do little other than attempt to persuade the other of the degree to which its own inherent righteousness exceeds that of the other.

        It has become quite the fad here to refer to what WE are like and what WE–being at heart unlike THEM–would do. I’d rather stick with the slightly more authoritative:

        By this sin they, and WE in them, fell from original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.

        They being the root, and by God’s appointment standing in the room and stead of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed to ALL their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.

        From this original corruption, whereby WE are utterly indisposed, disabled and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions. (Savoy Declaration, VI.2-4, 1658)

        • penguin2

          applicable, and I do understand them. I had to stay out of that realm because I lack the knowledge that would have let me really examine it fairly. Or I could just say, I would have drowned. :-)

        • lineholder

          I grew up in an environment of Calvinistic beliefs, so I am familiar with them. I would like to hear your opinion on whether or not you believe that human beings have the potential for what is of good? I’m not talking about restoring the righteousness that was lost as a result of mankind’s fall into sin, but simply striving for what is of good in life itself, such as honesty, integrity, courage, determination, courteousness, trustworthiness, etc. and how this plays a part in character development.

          • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

            and hoping not to threadjack I’ll just put up two of many explanations in the reformed literature:

            By original sin we mean the evil quality which characterizes man’s natural disposition and will. We call this sin of nature original, because each fallen man is born with it, and because it is the source or origin in each man of his actual transgressions.

            By calling it total, we do not mean that men are from their youth as bad as they can be. Evil men and seducers wax worse and worse,

          • lineholder

            And I honor your wish not to threadjack on the issue. I had my reasons for asking and perhaps there may be a more appropriate time and place to go into it.