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How To Win The War In The Trenches.

The need to engage our low information voters who supported Obama

By: plumely (Diary)  |  February 18th, 2013 at 11:48 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

I have always felt that instead of focusing on Obama that we need to turn our attention to his supporters. Af ter all they are the ones who elected him and they are ultimately responsible for his actions. So, what we need to do is to engage them and counter their stupidness. But, we need to stop using our old tactics. They don’t work. In case you are wondering what I am referring to by old tactics, this is what I mean.

- stop engaging them in a serious debate. What I mean is don’t counter their BS by going into a long discussion about why they are wrong. You do what they do and throw quick jabs at them that they have to defend. For example, they often like to say you don’t like Obama because you are a racist. Well, here is what you can say and I know this sounds crazy but stick with me.  You are for higher taxes because ultimately you want people to starve and die. And furthermore you are a bigot: you have a predjudice against low income people and want to keep them down. Yes I know that’s sounds harsh but what it does is shock them and throw them off their game. Then once they are properly offended and if they are still speaking to you, then school them on economics and then when you are done, you say that is the reason why if you are higher taxes you ultimately want to starve want people to starve and die and are prejudice against low income citizens. Again, I know this sounds harsh but this is war.

 

-Stop being so serious when you argue. One of the first things that happens to us is that when we hear libs say things that are stupid, our reaction is to pull our hair out in frusteration or if not, reach out and throttle them. When you hear their comments. take a deep breath and ask yourself, how can I ridicule what they say. Libs are masters at the art of ridicule and comedy. Even if we don’t agree with them, the skits on SNL are pretty damn funny. So, hear is an example of how you can ridicule a liberal. When they come out with comments in support of gay marriage you say something like, you know marriage is a great institution and I am glad that they gays are finally getting their right to marry. Now that that gay people can marry and have families, maybe they won’t feel the need to wear assless leather pants in the Gay Pride Parade and wear their jock straps inside their clothes.  Approaching this with humor will help you think more clearly and quickly and again will put them of the defensive. Then you can go on to point out that marriage and family is serious business and involves sacrifice and unselfishness.  As Erick pointed out the other day, be a “Happy Warrior”. I think I am understanding what he meant.

 

- Also, your points don’t have to be perfect. On our side we get caught up in worrying about whether we have covered all the bases so the other side won’t be able to respond. Don’t worry about that just DO IT.  And don’t worry about it for the following:

1. We give the otherside too much credit in that we think they are armed with facts to counter your arguments. I have found on many occasions on Facebook if you put forth a clever and informative argument they will back down. Use Glenn Beck’s Arguing with Idiots to help you with this task.  Alot of times they are not used to having anybody disagreeing with them. Besides the worst that will happen is they will call you names –and what’s new about that?

 

2. Libs don’t give up, and they will never cede you any points no matter how good your argument is. But make them anyway and if you      have to, repeat them so they get the point. This is about planting seeds and watering them, so repition never hurts.

 

I look back to 2010 and earlier when we were clobbering Libs when the Tea Party was strong and Andrew Breitbart was on the scene.  We need to take a page from both their playbooks and carry on with the work of advancing our agenda and “damn the torpedos”.

 

COMMENTS

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  • GremlinJones

    So your advice is not to respectfully engage in a dialogue through which both parties might learn something, but try to ridicule and throw out absurd one-liners to “get them off their game”? What’s the point of even interacting with them, then? Save your energy.

    Come armed with the facts, do your research, be respectful (after all once you persuade them, they will be on YOUR TEAM) and listen to what they have to say. Maybe they have a perspective you hadn’t considered. The ultimate hubris is to be certain that you have the answer to every question in the world.

    • plumely

      Well, there is a need to engage with them And just what are we saving our energy for? And I will only be respectful when they give me respect. A lib calling someone a Racist because they don’t like Obama without hearing the reasons why a person doesn’t like our president is disrespectful. Don’t you agree? And I have listened to what they have to say and I have enough to want to poke fun at their ridiculous ideaology.

      • GremlinJones

        I have many many liberal friends. We talk about politics all the time. I’ve never heard anyone actually called “racist” just for espousing conservative ideals or opposing Obama. Have you? It’s a ludicrous notion.

        And even if it were true, why would you want to lower yourself to their level? Your strategy of meeting nonsense with more nonsense seems like a losing proposition in the long run.

        • plumely

          Really sir, you have not heard anyone called a racist for not agreeing with Obama. I hear it all the time. Yes it is a ludicrous notion. But you know what, they get away with that charge because we are two busy bending over backwards trying to show how nice we are. It seems we learn the wrong lessons from liberals by adopting a little bit of their ideaology inorder to make our canidates more palatable, but we never want to use their tactics which seem to work very well for them… wouldn’t you agree based on the last two elections? Don’t worry no one will listen too me that I understand… and we will run another squish Republican in “16″ and lose again and still be branded as hate mongers. I just hate to lose that fight without even figuratively speaking throwing a punch. But, that’s what we are going to do.

        • plumely

          Oh yes my advice is not to respectfully engage in debate. The time for that has passed.

        • Martin Knight

          Because, increasingly, thanks entirely to the Left, it’s at that level at which the battles are fought and wars are won. Pretending otherwise and squealing that Conservatives and Republicans continue playing by some quaint standard of decorum that voters no longer care about or appreciate only guarantees that liberals won’t stop using these tactics because they suffer no consequences for it.

          PS: Where have you been for the last 30 – 40 years? Are you seriously trying to convince anyone here that you’ve never heard anyone called racist simply for having conservative views?

          Ever heard of Bork? Did you see John Ashcroft’s confirmation hearings? Samuel Alito? John Roberts? Sarah Palin? The WaPo hit piece on Rick Perry?

          Honestly, you must have been born yesterday if you are so completely unaware of how often and regularly liberals scream racism (or sexism, or just “hate”) every time they’re faced with opposition on the most minor issues.

          I gave up serious debate with liberals a long time ago – the first thing they always do is attack your motives – Conservatives think taxes are too high because they want to bring back slavery. Conservative want school choice because they want to control women’s bodies …

          • plumely

            Thank you Martin you said it better than I did. Letting them get away with their tactics only empowers them to continue. I have found once I have attacked back aggressively they think twice about saying stupid things around me.

          • americaforward

            I have heard hideous things said on both sides. I’ve heard liberals called communists because they thought we should all contribute to the common good; I’ve heard them called socialist because they felt that some people deserved an occasional hand up from misfortune. I’ve heard them called thieves because they thought people should pay their legal taxes and I’ve heard them called murderers because they felt people should have access to abortions, which are legal.

            As incensed as you or I may get about inanities hurled by left-wing idiots we don’t need to look far to see the same level of crap fired out from the right-wing idiots around us. Shutting off any chance of restoring real discussion is a recipe for collapse of our great nation, not for making it better.

          • Martin Knight

            It looks like it, sounds like it, and yep … it smells like it. Grade A, steaming fresh Bull$%!t. Well done.

            Especially with the all too typical passive aggressive kick that Republicans/Conservatives don’t believe in contributing for the common good, that we don’t believe in helping people who’ve been struck by some misfortune, that we don’t believe in paying taxes. All falsehoods that you very much know are falsehoods. Which makes you a liar.

            However, You’re right though about us believing that the unborn are deserving of life – unlike y(our) President, we even believe that children who survive abortions and are breathing should be given life-saving care instead of being shoved into airtight closets to die. We even believe, like the vast majority of medical professionals, that partial birth abortions are nothing short of infanticide.

            The fact that it is legal doesn’t mean it is not wrong. The fact that slavery was legal two hundred years ago, didn’t make slavery alright either, then or now.

            If this belief of ours about abortion may make you unhappy – good.

            Now, to your risible attempt to create some sort of equivalence between stuff said by conservatives in website/blog comment sections as against truly hideous allegations Democrats routinely offer up on the Senate and House floor and on national television with liberal talk show hosts happily nodding along in agreement.

            Let’s be clear here; I have never heard of a Republican in the last three decades standing on the Senate or House floor and calling any Democrat a communist or a socialist. I have seen numerous Democrats on numerous occasions calling Republicans racists and sexists – in fact, there’s no Republican nominee for the Supreme Court in the past 20 to 30 years that has not been attacked as a racist or sexist by Democrat Senators and Congressmen.

            I have never seen or heard a Republican stand up and call any Democrat a murderer, even the most passionate abortion enthusiasts – I have, however, seen a Democrat Congressman stand up, with a placard before the Speaker’s podium and say “Republicans want you to die!” I have seen a Democrat President stand up before the nation and accuse Republicans of not caring about the murder of children.

            There is no equivalence. Only one party has made impugning motives and character assassination a staple part of any campaign or public debate. I can’t remember the last time I saw on TV any argument between a liberal and a conservative without the liberal accusing the conservative of “hating” some group, actively wanting to hurt some group – up to and including condoning mass murder and/or rape. Mary Katherine Ham just found that out with Juan Williams.

            There is no record of any candidate for Chairman of the Republican National Committee launching his campaign with a declaration remotely like “I hate Democrats and everything Democrats stand for!” Howard Dean started his campaign for Chairman of the Democratic National Committee with “I hate Republicans and everything Republicans stand for!” to applause in the media and all over the Left – and of course, thanks to his declaration of hatred, he easily won.

            The point here – apart from the fact that you’re a lying shill – is simple. There is no chance of a real discussion until the moment liberals decide that argumentation by slander and ascribing horrific motives to their opponents is no longer a risk-free venture. The only way that will happen is when we Conservatives start returning fire and go the scorched Earth route.

            Have a nice day.

          • http://www.TerriersOfTheRight.blogspot.com Flagstaff

            “There is no equivalence.”

            That is correct. I get so tired of hearing the obligatory “both parties are guilty” statement when discussing Senators who have allowed their car passengers to drown without reporting it, as if it were true. It’s seldom true that both parties are equally guilty of anything.

      • celador2

        Thumbs up

        • plumely

          Thank you I get alot of criticism on this site, some of it justified, I have made mistakes, but all I am trying to do is help us all do a better job of getting the message out there. And I believe we need to do it instead of relying on our canidates come election time or talk radio.

          • celador2

            You do a magnificant job and I am pleased I found the thread.
            We need more concerned with the message and its delivery.

  • ww2nd95

    So rather then have a good debate on the issues.. you say ridicule them, make fun of them, and then hope to catch them off their game? Well I don’t see that being a very effective strategy.

    So if a liberal says “We need higher taxes due to income inequality, to help pay down the national debt, and help secure the social safety net”, rather then saying “Well, higher taxes would simply hurt the job market, because the top income earners would have less capital to invest. To income inequality, how does someone’s earnings effect someone else’s life. And if we do not reform the social safety net, no matter how much we raise taxes, they’re going to topple” YOU would say, “You are for higher taxes because ultimately you want people to starve
    and die. And furthermore you are a bigot: you have a predjudice against
    low income people and want to keep them down.”. If you’re being sarcastic, I think you hit the mark, it’s pretty funny, as that’s how some of the lower intellect lefties argue. If you’re being serious and this is to become our strategy going forward, we’re in trouble.

    • plumely

      Not hope, but you do catch them off their game. Having a good debate on the issues just doesn’t exist anymore in “polite company” and what I am suggesting is that we stop being so dry in our approach. And yes ridicule does work it is provocative… look how effective it has been for the otherside… young people respond to that We have two presidential
      elections to prove that point.

  • keepcoolwithcoolidge

    Intelligent debate isn’t always bad, but I see your point. Over at Huff Post I try and comment intelligently, but adopt your tactics when provoked. Sometimes you have to accuse libs of hating the poor when they call for a minimum wage increase or others policies that only serve to hurt the economy. I hate to say it, but calling them racist whenever possible shuts down debate just as fast as it does with us. My avatar at Huff Post is Clarence Thomas so it doesn’t take much to get hateful, racist remarks from the so-called enlightened progressives. Fighting the machine is hard, but picking our tactics wisely is a must.

    • plumely

      Yes it does and thank you for getting to some degree the point I am trying to get across. I am listening to Dana Loesch as we speak and she is ridiculing liberal stupidity. It sounds great to say don’t wastee your time with these people but they are wasting no time in getting their message out and they doing it quite effectively while we sit around and contemplate our navals…and oh yes we all do a great job of shutting each other up and calling each other morons, But, for some reason we have to fight fair when dealing with Libs and then get our teeth kicked in. Again thank you for seeing my point. If I can convince one person then I have succeeded.

  • celador2

    On this national Holiday, George Washington’s birthday relabeled as President’s Day for some it is fitting to recall words from a former great known for his many words of wisdom. I recall Ronald Reagan said,
    “Because a solution is a simple one does not make it an easy one.”.

    Amen
    I agree with not bothering to engage anyone whose mind can not be changed. Straight party line voters and most who have a stake in D growing government are a waste of time to lobby or try to reach directly.
    .
    But we may have a message that hits home with some swing voters who vote D by default. We must find them.If someone has a job that person is a possible Republican voter. .Any religious leaning is a Republican voter especially if not on welfare. Those who admire continuity with founders and are patriotic are likely voters. Seniors and anyone in a business must be targeted for appeals.

    Jim Demint left the Senate and will take over as pres Heritage Foundation in two weeks. He already is fundraising to transform the nation through Heritage. He points out that his backgrouns is not only 14 years in DC but also marketing. He wants to use Heritage as a vehicle to reach Americans with conservative values and win their support.

    A combination of targeting our own likely voters and Demint’s explaining them as winners is in order. Every effort adds up.

    But we must not lose sight of the goal to win which is get out to vote known Republican voters first.

    • plumely

      I will save my powder for another diary. I am making two points. One is that we need to stand up to these idiots. Yes in reality we should not waste time since we all havebetter things to do. But, as I responded to another diarist who commented. these “idiots” who we should not waste our time with and should not sink down to their level are not wasting time. Everyday they fight the “good fight” and advance their agenda by any means possible.. This leads to my second point. Trying to engage with them respectfully means that we find ourselves taking a defensive position all the time and we end up either getting shouted down or attacked personally before we are able to make any points. What we need to do is attack their position, and using humor and ridicule is a great way to do that. Also, in reality most of our discussions with Libs resmemble more that of bar fights then they do intelligent debates. So, I am saying let’s become streetfighters in our discourse.

      • celador2

        Those two points of yours are right to the point.
        We must define the issues on our terms to avoid lIberals defining them and throw us on the defensive. Go to voters and bypass joint sessions with Liberals. as much as possible.

        Examples where the right were like that or even streetfighters may have been on O’bamacare and the tea party on O’care and debt in 2010.
        Voters did listen 2010.

        Never let the opponent set the terms or define our issues.
        i oppose media sponsored presidential debate even Fox. Any GOP pres contender should be interviewed by hosts who can hold them to scruitiny but has an interest in bring out the strong points and not only destroying the candidates. as do ABC, NBC CBC NYT at al.

        New hosts are in order if there are pres debates 2016. I am inclined to bypass them after the ones from 2012.

        • plumely

          I agree about the debates. They are worthless if the wrong moderators are chose. Won’t watch them ever again if they are moderated by Crowly or Raddatz.

          • celador2

            Those pres mods were deadly hits in the pocket for Obama for sure and threw him a few points. Never should a Republican agree to those despite pressure we have to have them. Those media primary and general debate defined candidates too much but should not have done so.
            I include the primary format debates that are useless and in hands of hosts who want to see conservatives defeated.
            We need new hosts for a more clear message that is not on defensive.
            Heritage NRA, RNC, Cato, Brent Bozell, newsmax are examples of hosts who can get to the bottom of where someone stands on an issue and still bring out strong points unlike media.

  • americaforward

    When I talk to liberals about politics they don’t say that taxes are great, rather that they serve a purpose and are not always bad. Usually they talk about using tax revenue to improve education, infrastructure and public safety as a way to invest in the growth of our future. There are clearly differences in our views about what can or can’t be done with public money, but I have never heard a liberal state that they wanted people to starve. That’s just stupid and further reduces our party’s credibility in the eyes of the general public.

    • Martin Knight

      I’ve never heard a Republican say that they want black people to be second class citizens, or that they want women to be paid less than men for the same work, or that they want the poor to suffer and starve, or die quickly of illness.

      I have however seen and heard Democrats say this, not just on the Internet but on the House and Senate floor.

      I have seen and heard, a Democratic Senator, (now President) say that he will want to raise taxes even raising taxes resulted in less revenue, simply to ensure that the rich have less.

      PS: No Republican I’ve ever heard has ever said that taxes serve no purpose and are always bad.

  • americaforward

    Oh, and by the way… a nation is made of people working together to build a better future – even though they may often disagree about how it should be done. A nation is not a war, and allowing your attitude to decay to the point that you prefer war to building a better future puts you in danger of doing more harm than good.

    • Martin Knight

      Stop calling us racists, sexists, homophobes, pro-rape, pro-child murder at every turn and perhaps we’ll start to believe you.

    • plumely

      “Oh, and by the way… a nation is made of people working together to build a better future- even though they often disagree.” *golf clap* you sound so enlightened and reasonable when you say that. So, here is your assignment, instead of lecturing all of us about civility an egletarianism, have the courage to go and tell your liberal buddies to be civil and work with us and not do everything in their power to corrupt our culture. If you can’t or won’t do that then everything you say and believe in is Cr%$P and you are exactly the person I am talking about in my diary.