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By: rehoboam (Diary)  |  March 28th, 2010 at 02:32 PM  | 

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[...to the sockpuppet. Via here]

[No, I can't imagine why it should; but I'm not a moby sockpuppet. - Moe Lane]

COMMENTS

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  • Nelson Head

    Like you, I have a problem with the usual responses about illegal (undocumented) immigrants which are to either deport everybody or give everybody citizenship. The first group is unmindful of the contributions these immigrants make to our economy and to our country. The second group is trying to build a voting block for their own political purposes. Both should be rejected.
    I have a slightly different take on how to proceed. Instead of classifying people into three groups, I suggest two. The first are those without proper documentation but who have been gainfully employed (or whose primary relatives are gainfully employed), who have been paying taxes, and who have committed no serious crimes; they should be allowed to remain, obtain a work visa, but be denied a pathway to citizenship as punishment for entering illegally. The second group are those who do not meet these criteria and they should be deported; I agree with you that that number is small, manageable and without much controversy.
    This approach may be doable because it will bring those illegal immigrants who contribute out of the shadows; there would be no mass deportation which is unfeasible, would be a humanitarian disaster would be a sight most Americans would abhor. Likewise it does not reward them with the right to vote which is the principle right of citizenship; this should satisfy those who believe the undocumented should not be granted the same privileges as those immigrants who played by the rules.

    • http://reverendjimcracker.spaces.live.com CodeRedinPA

      and it’s a good idea…

      But, Democrats made minced meat of it with the canard that the GOP wanted to create a second-class citizenry. “good enough to work, but not to vote”

      Sometimes practical compromises prove easy pickings for the other side. Especially when they salivate over a future voting bloc.

      • Nelson Head

        I didn’t remember this at the time. The reply could have been “Good enough to live here legally like any other immigrant with a permanent residency visa, but because they broke the law they won’t become citizens. With a permanent visa, they can come and go as they wish, live under the law and outside of the shadows, their children will be Americas, etc.”
        It is obvious that the Democrats don’t want a solution. They just want a permanent class that remains under their protection. They have plenty to worry about if the immigrants, especially the Hispanics, do come out from under the threat of deportation, whether as a citizen or permanent resident, because their work ethics and conservative morality will push them into the Republican camp.
        If only the Republicans could stop yelling about this long enough to recognize they are being set up by the Democrats and that the demographics could easily be on their side.

        • acat

          One of the dirty little secrets….

          Let’s suppose Jose works, under the table, off the books, for a small business. Let’s further suppose that the business cleans offices for larger businesses.

          Jose does good work, and is paid okay, but because it’s under the table the only taxes he pays are sales tax to buy stuff and whatever part of property tax his landlord charges. He’s taking home better than minimum wage, but only because nothing is taken out, no unemployment, FICA, etc.

          Jose can’t qualify as a guest worker because he doesn’t have a job. Not really. The business he works for will fold instead of listing the position because they can’t afford to pay minimum wage for it. If they fold, another will pop up in its’ place.

          The small business owner – who is he? What is his political affiliation? Not necessarily Dem, eh?

          Mew

    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehoboam rehoboam

      …because I’m not convinced that many illegals care about citizenship half as much as they do about just being able to work here and earn a higher wage. I would probably be willing to support it if their legal residency could be revoked in response to their becoming unemployed and therefore unproductive.

      By the way, do you know of any organizations advocating anything like your or my suggestion? Unfortunately all I’ve been able to find as a solution is total deportation. I want to find an organization I can donate a small sum to.

      • Nelson Head

        I don’t know of any, but if you come across one, try to let me know. I’d like to do the same.

    • Brian Simpson

      Our prisons are already overburdened with non-violent criminals. No need to add a potential 12-25 million more people to the bursting jail cells.

      • http://www.thesubstratum.com GJ Merits

        In Oklahoma, they tried to make police round up illegal immigrants. They refused. Not that they did not want to, they did not have the manpower. In the end the police won. Fight crime or round up illegals? The police knew their job.

        I would go after the employers. That makes more sense. Heavy fines equate to no hiring.

      • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehoboam rehoboam

        I am in no way suggesting that we put illegal immigrants in prison. There are plenty of alternative sentences that make a lot more sense such as community service or some form of work release.

        • Brian Simpson

          Because felony charges come with jail time. Even if it only ever comes down to time served.

          • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehoboam rehoboam

            It ain’t so. Plenty of felonies result in probation.

          • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehoboam rehoboam

            If what you are saying is that felonies can always result in jail time if that is the chosen sentence, then that is true, but I am saying that in practice they often don’t and for illegal immigration certainly should not. The main point I see in making it a felony is so that the resulting sentence of community service or work release can continue for a longer length of time than it could with a misdemeanor.

      • loneprotester

        The problems this country currently faces stems from one thing, the failure to enforce the laws of the land. Millions of illegal are in America because of selective law enforcement and some of you here don’t have a problem with it. You speak out of one side of your mouth about small government, less taxes and your love for America while out the other side you have no problem with amnesty. You cannot have both. Amnesty is a nation killer with upwards of forty million illegals here. Government and taxes would have to expand fourfold to take care of them. How would the Constitution be working for you then?
        Can any of you imagine the humiliation of watching a successful business of two decades go down the drain. Well, I have. The home building industry was destroyed by Americans with attitudes like yours. They are only here for a better life so close yours eyes to the truth. The truth of the matter is that millions of American citizens are out of business and work in the construction industry and it will be years before we get back on our feet. And probably never if conservatives like you have your way.
        We do not need any kind of comprehensive immigration reform. We just need Americans with the backbone to enforce the laws currently on the books. If any of you want to feel compassion then direct it towards your fellow countrymen and not the thieves that stole my entire industry.

        • jdw4america

          I’m tired of having crowds of people who have broken the law marching around demanding their “rights.” I’m sick to death of laws being passed to let criminals off the hook because we can’t make them obey the rules of our society. It’s a dangerous thing to do, and its counter-productive.

          For example, NY regulates handguns (not to get into the 2nd amendment) but illegal, unregistered guns are rampant all over NYC. Solution? The brilliant politicians decided right before Christmas to hand out $100 gift certificates out to anyone who turned in an unregistered gun, no questions asked. EXCUSE ME? Criminals getting preferential treatment to law-abiding citizens? I have kids I have to buy presents for – nobody gives me an extra $100 to pay for them. I guess I should have had the foresight to get an unregistered handgun.

          The illegal immigration issue is the SAME thing. If you permit them to stay, you are rewarding their criminality. No one is discounting the legitimate contributions of immigrants – legally here, but illegals are destructive to our way of life. They can destroy entire industries like construction, simply because their labor comes cheap.

          In Mexico, illegals are given prison sentences and THEN deported, so they can stop their whining about how racism is motivating the movement against illegals. We are infinitely more generous to them than Mexico is.

          The reality is that we cannot make up for the fact that some countries in Latin America have, for decades, failed to provide the economic and political stability necessary to provide their own people with jobs. NOT OUR FAULT.

          George Will recently suggested that we stop allowing the children of illegals to be citizens. If their arrival here is undocumented, then their children cannot be granted citizenship, period. For many of these people, that is the golden ticket that brings them here. Take it away. Do not reward criminality. I don’t get to break the law and walk away, neither do you. Why should they?

          • JadedByPolitics

            I couldn’t agree MORE with what you are saying and I think a diary from a Hispanic woman’s perspective would be AWESOME!