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Cain v. Gingrich; Bonus: Monty Python Sketch Below the Fold

I watched last nights debate between Herman Cain and Newt Gingrich and it was thoroughly enjoyable. Both were lively and anxious to get their points out. But Gingrich showed why he’s the class of the field; he truly displayed a mastery of the issues and was ready with conservative solutions. Getting rid of the CBO? Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Granted, I’m not sure how an idea like that would even be considered by Congress (after all, the CBO is the Congressional Budget Office); but that doesn’t mean Gingrich’s idea isn’t a place to start debate on reforming how the CBO does things.

The debate wasn’t even close. I’ve never doubted Cain’s conservative cred. And, there are times when I’ve questioned Gingrich’s motives (the video with Pelosi comes to mind). My brother has often mentioned to me what he sees Gingrich bringing to the table. In every one of the debates I’ve watched, Gingrich is the smartest at every turn. Plus, he has a proven track record. As far as I’m concerned, and as long as he’s on the ballot, Gingrich is who I want to see as President, warts and all. I like Cain, and have found his 9-9-9 plan intriguing. I’ve liked many of the other candidates as well. But to me, Gingrich is the total package.

Having said all that, what about the debate format?

Conservatives have rightly complained about all the other debates that have taken place. In fact, I would say the following video was quite prescient:

The cheap and tawdry nature of those other debates has shown us more about the agenda of the media than anything else. I don’t mean just the political interests and agenda of the mediators, but that today’s media lives for quick sound bites as opposed to actual debate. I think one can discern important points and differences in those debates, but it’s like pulling teeth, especially when a point is made out of context and there isn’t a reasonable way for rebuttal. It doesn’t help when a “moderator” injects their own hostile political agenda into the questions. Unfortunately, the number of candidates right now doesn’t allow for the kind of debate that took place last night. If there was one thing I would change it’s to allow a debate on a couple of items (much like it has been) but have the candidates question each other, after all, finding out what questions a candidate asks can be important in figuring out their stance on an item; the media moderator would be there simply to enforce an obvious need for a time limit and to make sure candidates don’t degenerate into something like the Romney-Perry fiasco.

Once some of the candidates get winnowed out, the kind of debate that occurred between Gingrich and Cain would be far more beneficial than what we’ve been seeing. But would the media touch it? After all, last night’s debate was on C-SPAN, not any network or cable news outlet. The two men were able to give many speeches explaining their positions and outlining how they want to get things done (Gingrich was definitely better on this). But it wasn’t the quick-and-dirty approach favored by the media, which is why the media mavens might not think it plays well, especially during the primary season.

Of course, once the Republican nominee is pretty well selected, debates of the kind Gingrich wants would be extremely beneficial. They would almost certainly have to be televised or the charge that the media is only interested in its own agenda would further stick out.

And I’m not sure Obama would agree to these kinds of debates, although he really wouldn’t have a choice if he has any chance of being re-elected. These kinds of debates would play into one of his strengths, giving long speeches to direct questions, something he is nauseatingly good at during press conferences. But of course, he is good when given leading questions as opposed to questions that he wouldn’t expect, something a good opponent could easily do. Without his teleprompter, Obama is a fumbler, whereas Gingrich is clear and knows how to make a point even with a long answer. Gingrich would clean Obama’s clock in such a setting, as he would most debate opponents. I would venture to guess others would as well. Which is why I don’t believe Obama would accept such a challenge. But then again, he might surprise me.

Cross-posted at Scipio the Metalcon.

COMMENTS

  • paulplantowin

    These 2 are bold. I noted a weak spot here and there – but I kept wondering how it would compare to – say – Obama’s solutions on these entitlments.
    Then I remembered – he likes to keep them around to scare people.

    Whatever one may think of the details – I was very pleased to see two top contenders face it head on – and risk the lib ire.

    Cain seems pretty OK with Ryans Plan :-)

    Cain’s final question for Newt was Way Out Of The Box. Funny.
    comments at HA etc. were overall pretty positive, even glowing at times.
    A feel good nite for many.

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      this point

      • Tbone

        Just checkin’

        • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

          in which Cain was talking (also there is a column of two that cite prior knowledge) about the expansion of China’s nuclear capabilities. Keep trying, one day the odds are that anti-Cain prayers we will be answered. All but one of these jokers will one day be history! finished! in the quest for the nomination.

  • tngal

    Delightful read. Newt did do very well. Always does. But it wasn’t at the expense of Cain, I don’t believe. He held up better than some against the “Encyclopedia of All Things Washington” (my nickname for Newt).

    And that Python footage was like getting a prize in my cereal. Too perfect.

    I’d raise my cup of coffee in a toast to you, if I hadn’t just spilled it all on the floor.

    • http://scipio62.livejournal.com/ scipio62

      I agree that Newt did well on his own and not at Cain’s expense. That’s one of the reasons I believe this debate format is so beneficial.

      Oh. And sorry for causing you to spill your coffee (kinda ;) ).

  • paulplantowin

    Newt could crush most anyone if he wanted to.
    Even being nice – you come off looking weak around his grasp of things. I wonder if the others would get alone with Newt for 90 mins in front of a camera.
    Be real hard to top him in such a format – on such a volatile subject (entitlements)

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      Cain!

      • Xasteius

        That takes quite a lot of nerve from someone who is both conservative and a Christian minister.

        • gekster

          I wonder about that also.
          Cain should know about the race card being thrown at conservatives all the time,
          and as a conservative himself should not use it.
          One would have to wonder at what level of conservatism Cain is.

          • bzip

            Cain and various pundits have been playing the race card to the pint of making the conservatives look silly. Race had nothing to do with any of it.

            It was mentioned in several news articles and media outlets and is very obvious to most people;

            Racial politics return with Cain allegations
            http://news.yahoo.com/racial-politics-return-cain-allegations-133006723.html

          • llorta

            …is because Cain knows that it plays well to a certain segment of the Republican/conservative/tea party base. And I am very sad to have to admit that.

            Back when the Republican race was beginning to take shape, I actually had a very favorable view of Herman Cain.

            But my first red flag came up when I heard Cain talking about the media being scared of Obama having to run against a “REAL black man.” I thought to myself, what is this?! I don’t want to hear that kind of racial garbage.

            But the reason why Cain talks like that is because his supporters actually CHEER him for it. Google for the video of that – that kind of thing is sickening.

            Now look at Cain’s handling of the airing of his past sexual harassment settlements. “Woe is me, a black guy being lynched by the media.” And look how Cain’s supporters rewarded him for playing the race card again – by donating tons of money to his campaign. Outrageous!

            Shame on Cain. Shame on his supporters. And shame on Hannity, Rush, Levin, and all the other racist-enablers out there. Shame on you!

          • Xasteius

            And don’t make excuses such as ‘he grow up in the South’. I am not black, but I was born dyslexic and slightly autistic (and you don’t even want to know the crummy family background that I’ve had). I have more excuse to act like a total nut and blame my upbringing, but as conservatives (and adults) we believe in taking responsibility for our actions.

            And I ask again: If he’s so comfortable in his own skin, why play the race card everytime something doesn’t go his way?

          • gekster

            I do have a habit of not articulating the way I should.
            Mike will show up and answer.
            As far as other Cain supporters, who knows.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/11/05/2322/

            @my latest diary entry cross-posted column that also mentions “institutional” racism. See you over there…
            …but first hints, teases (btw, you might want to reco my diary since you live for my Cain defenses. I am must read conservative blogging! smile…I often reco the diaries of others so that people will be more likely to come over read by brilliant comments, for in stance…smile, big…)

            Look for:

            Sometimes the race card is properly played and Do Redstaters play the race card?

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            properly point out the skin-based motives of one’s adversaries.

  • center77

    because the media will slam the conservative or Romney anyways, so we need somebody who has proved conservative agenda works, and only one has done that. Newt has warts all right, he was a down right crook, and we should not elect crooks.

  • partyof1

    The debate was excellent but it was really more of an ideas forum.

    The tone I think was set early on when Cain responding to Newt’s opening statement said “at this juncture I’m supposed to have a minute to disagree with something that he said but I don’t.”

    I like that they focused on bringing a consumer/product relationship to health care. I liked Newt’s quarter pounder example and Cain’s support of health savings accounts. I think HSA’s would bring some consumer cost consciousness to health care spending and help drive down cost down and quality up.

    Eliminating the CBO, good idea.

    Newt’s reputation for a piercing intellect is well deserved. In this (or any) type of format he would clean Obama’s clock. Let Obama have 30 minutes to exlplain Dem hate-bites saying Republicans want women to die on the floor — sorry first we want more women raped (Biden 2011), then they should die the floor (Pelosi, earlier that same year).

    Of course Newt wouldn’t clean anyone’s clock on climate change since he agrees with Pelosi and Obama. Intellect does no good unless it’s pointed in the right direction.

    Cain is smart and has a lifetime of business and personal experience feeling the effects of government policy rather than making it. I think in this long form debate he would bring a rubber-meets-the-road perspective that Obama couldn’t match. Obama has spent his entire life either in Indonesia, academia, or government. He is all theory and abstract policy notions that he clings to because that’s all he knows.

    On Obama vs. Cain, consider the unintended implication of “yes we can” is that “no we haven’t yet”. He’s talking to the legions of Democrat constituents who are continually promised a gold ring that socialism can never deliver.

    But Cain did for himself, by himself or at least with God given talent, hard work, and the support of his family.

    Barack Obama: “Yes we can!”

    Herman Cain: “I already did.”

    None of the GOP candiates is perfect but I think Cain is the best choice. I would also vote for Newt or Michele.

    If there was nothing good on the internet and the weather was nice I might stroll down to the polls to vote for Perry. I will never vote against a Republican but I can not vote for Romney; no matter what.

    • snowshooze

      I agree with that sentiment. And I want to keep hearing all the way until after the primary.
      We certainly want as many as possible aware of the obvious pitfalls of Romney as President, as well as the point that he WILL not be able to energize the Republican Conservative base.
      Perhaps the GOP proper will take that into account, because if they think that we will swallow anything they throw to us, they would rather keep their money in their self made mini bureaucracy and spend it upon themselves rather than help out a candidate. And Romney is monied up well,,, gee… after campaigning for six years he should be…
      But although I want to make this message well heard..that dislike and indifference will be tangible values attached to a Romney ticket.. and the GOP takes a serious risk of being abandoned due to lack of interest..
      I’d still have to give him my vote. We are pretty sure who the Democrats are going to vote for. ( Those that do not cross the line )and Obama has so much kickback cash laying around he can BUY the networks. And he WILL.
      We cannot figure on a landslide. The stakes are too high.