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How Much Do The Obamanauts Hate Corporations? Apparently, They Want To Drive Them From The Country

A plan of breathtaking stupidity....

Some years back, there was a winter mountaineering disaster in New Hampshire. The post mortem (literally) summary of why this happened was nicely encapsulated in the phrase, “A plan of breathtaking stupidity.”

I was reminded of that today as details continue to emerge of what seems to almost be an overt Obama-Geithner plan to drive as many corporations as possible from the U.S. and to other jurisdictions.

Given that we’re the ONLY jurisdiction on the planet that double-taxes out-of-country foreign earnings (if repatriated – and that seems to be the “loophole” that they want to close), this is almost a death wish.

Now, instead of just the “off-shoring” of jobs, it will make perfect economic sense to offshore entire companies elsewhere.

This is a stimulus plan for Bermuda and Grand Cayman….

What am I ranting about? More below the fold….

This seemingly incomprehensible report has been circulating for days, but today things got more into the open – in the sense that this isn’t a mistake, but intent:

Geithner: Obama to fight international tax dodgers

WASHINGTON (AP) – President Barack Obama’s Treasury secretary says the administration will unveil a series of rules and measures in the coming months to limit the ability of international companies to avoid U.S. taxes.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told the House Ways and Means Committee on Tuesday that Obama will propose legislation to limit U.S. companies’ ability to shelter foreign earnings from taxation in the U.S. He also said the administration will try to limit wealthy Americans’ ability to use tax havens to avoid taxation.

He did not immediately provide details.

What’s going on here? Well, to grasp that, we have to dive a bit into some aspects of tax policies across various jurisdictions.

One item that seemed to finally be getting some traction last fall was the growing (for awhile) recognition that our tax system was becoming dangerously uncompetitive.

The U.S. corporate tax rate has been sitting at 35% for decades; in the meantime, while others have been reducing their rates, we’ve done nothing. As a consequence, the U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world – and this isn’t good for economic growth.

Well, the situation is even worse than just that. The U.S. is the only country in the world that taxes (at full strength) profits earned outside the country and which have already been taxed in those jurisdictions. The only way to not have this extra tax imposed is to literally not bring the money home to the U.S. – but to let it stay overseas and be invested there.

Confused? Let’s work an example of this. Suppose you are CEO of XYZ Widgets, Inc., an international widget supplier based in the U.S. You have a competitor, ABC Widgets Oy, based in Finland. Both of you sell widgets in the U.S., earn profits, and pay U.S. corporate tax on those profits. Both of you sell widgets in Finland, earn profits, and pay Finnish corporate tax on those profits. So far, so good. However, here things diverge. ABC Widgets Oy can take its remaining after-tax profits from the U.S. and bring them back to home base in Finland to invest in things like increasing widget production – and not face another hit of Finnish corporate tax on that money. In contrast, if you (XYZ Widgets, Inc.) want to repatriate your after-tax profits from Finland back to the U.S. – to invest in things like increasing YOUR production of widgets…. well, you have to pay the full (and also too-high) U.S. corporate tax of 35% on those already-taxed-in-Finland profits. You’d probably choose to leave that money outside the U.S. – and, oh, use if for something like investing in increasing your widget production by building a new plant in someplace like Romania.

In the above, replace “Finland” with the name of any other country in the world, and the story is the same. The U.S. is the only country that has this “double-taxation” rule.

As CEO of XYZ Widgets, Inc., you have to report to your board and your investors. Are you surprised that you decide, as noted above, to build your new widget-making plant somewhere other than inside the U.S.? See how the “off-shoring” of jobs just makes basic business sense?

Well, when people try to impose an ideology on reality, real trouble starts. What appears to be in plan now is to change the law so that U.S.-based corporations have to pay that second (35%) payment on their already-taxed overseas profits – even if the money is not repatriated to the U.S.

That will change things – and we’ll put you back in the seat as CEO of XYZ Widgets, Inc. The basic economics of the extant silly tax scheme made it much more favorable to use your international profits outside the country – to create capacity and jobs there. Now, you are going to get hit with that double-taxation (including that way-too-high U.S. rate), even if you leave the money overseas.

The short translation is – under this new scheme, being a U.S.-based corporation is a pure cost for no benefit for the business. What will you, your board, and your investors likely do to respond?

Simple – and welcome to Phase II of off-shoring. Rather than just moving capacity and jobs off-shore, now it makes great business sense to off-shore the entire enterprise – by becoming a corporation in some favorable non-U.S. jurisdiction. Any business you do in the U.S. will still be taxed at the U.S. corporate income rate, but you will now avoid the silly double-taxation that this new plan imposes.

You really have to wonder what is going on inside some heads. Are these people so marinated in pure ideology that they can’t even ponder the unintended consequences of these silly actions? If someone was trying to impose a plan designed to explicitly drive corporations (of all sizes) to leave the country, they couldn’t have done much better than this nutty scheme.

Two last quibbles of note – in which I must object violently to the derogatory characterization of those (like you, dear CEO of XYZ Widgets, Inc.) who make sensible business decisions as “tax dodgers.” First, that’s gutter-demonization that has no place in civilized discourse. Second, it’s patently wrong; right now, those who leave overseas after-tax profits overseas (and don’t pay U.S. corporate tax on that money) are completely within the law in doing so. If the ideologues don’t like this arrangement, they can try to disastrously change it – but preemptively implying criminality where none exists is beyond the pale.

BTW, there is a Phase III of off-shoring. But we don’t need to stir that pot for the time being….

COMMENTS

  • http://briansimpson.wordpress.com Brian Simpson

    Very well done. Something even a lefty (when they put on their thinking hat and stop listening to the “only on paper” nonsense about corporate tax rates) can understand.

  • anotherindyfilmguy

    Either the O’ has no clue about economics whatsoever or he is simply the culmination of an apprenticeship under Bill Ayers trying to destroy America from within the system per Ayers handbook etc…
    Neither bodes well although if I could choose I’d at least choose him to be an over-educated over-promoted idiot instead of the radical left’s Manchurian candidate from within our own borders…

  • olsmithie

    when people try to impose an ideology on reality, real trouble starts

    It is really scary is that the President of the most powerful and successful government on earth actually believes all the socialist trash he has been indoctrinated with by his lifelong associates, insisting that it be instituted, despite evidence of his doctrine’s repeated failures.

    There’s a PHD thesis in psychology in there somewhere.

    REgards

    • Old_Crow

      ingredients for a disaster. A closed minded fool who believes in fairy dust to solve problems.

      BTW, nice write-up Skanderbeg

      • olsmithie
  • bs

    He should be recruiting them for cabinet positions…

  • DerKrieger

    And I would make it loudly public as to why I was relocating my company and reducing or even eliminating my US work force. If there was a way to only fire my employees who voted for Obama I would do so since they are partly responsible in that they voted for The Ignorant One.

    I have the same view regarding unionization. If I owned a company under threat of unionization, like Wal-Mart say, I would make it very very clear of the price to be paid by my employees if they voted in a union. That price would be elimination of bonuses, layoffs, store closings, and everything possible to make it as painful as possible. And I would enlist my customers in the fight letting them know just what the cost to them would be.

    Corporate America needs to wage these battles in the public arena and not just limit their activities to border skirmishes on K-Street. Millions of Americans derive their earnings and security working for large corporations and really need to understand the negative impact to them that result from punitive taxes and regulations on their employer.

    My company has a PAC to which I contribute. I want to do everything I can to keep my golden goose alive and well.

    • jcheney

      …but it was posted on the date below:

      November 17, 2008

      Layoff announcement

      Fellow Business Executives:

      As the CFO of this business that employees 140 people, I have resigned myself to the fact that Barrack Obama will be our next President, and that our taxes and government fees will increase in a BIG way.

      To compensate for these increases, I figure that our Clients will have to see an increase in our fees to them of about 8%, but since we cannot increase our fees right now due to the dismal state of our economy, we will have to lay off eight of our employees instead. This has really been eating at me for a while, as we believe we are family here and I didn’t know how to choose who will have to go.

      So, this is what I did. I strolled through our parking lot and found 8 Obama bumper stickers on our employees’ cars and have decided these folks will be the first to be laid off. I can’t think of a more fair way to approach this problem. These folks wanted change; I gave it to them.

      If you have a better idea, let me know.

  • http://brockwayfamily.spaces.live.com/ Erick Brockway

    Business is on a stampede out of California, soon they won’t stop till they reach India.
    Just think, we may all soon be working for a customer service desk in the US answering phones for a company in India, being cussed at in German for our accents.

    • mom2oneson

      nt

  • GregInFla

    why it is that socialist nations do not let their citizens leave, and take their money with them. As a sign at one of the tea parties said: The problem with Socialism is that you run out of Other People’s Money!

    Ask Arnold in Cali what happens when wealth leaves. Ask Blomberg in NYC what would happen. Ask Obama what happens what happens when the employers leave.

    • http://briansimpson.wordpress.com Brian Simpson
  • red4ever

    George Soros would have to pay taxes then. Since he funds most of the left with the money he should be paying in taxes, they don’t want to kill the golden goose.

    • Praying

      I’m sure George Soros is exempt. I’m also pretty sure that George Soros had a pretty major role to play in the “coincidental” timing of the downfall of our economy. No, the Obama administration owes George Soros. They won’t make him pay a dime.

  • paulincolo

    is it with full intent to damage the economy so “the one” can be our savior? is a question I have been asking myself. I was 50/50 for awhile, but now am in the latter camp 90/10 leaving some plausible room that they are just idiots. But the day after day punishment to the producers in our society reflects clear intent to move us to total dependency on a socialist government.

  • http://www.800cart.com Ron Robinson

    The internet and ecommerce has richly rewarded many small businesses in recent years. And moving even a small business offshore these days is no big trick. Globalization works for the little guy too, because of the electronic infrastructure already in place.

    Remember now: every internet casino and pharmacy (and there are lots of both) is most likely offshore. A surrounding infrastructure of offshore online credit card processors and associated service businesses have sprung up to service these small businesses, and now these offshore transaction processors are likely to see another spurt of growth as more and more small businesses move major components offshore.

    Just google ‘offshore merchant acoount’ or ‘offshore domicile’ to learn just how competitive and active this service sector is.

    And it won’t just be the new tax environment causing this! The way the approaching regulatory environment is shaping up, just as many companies will want to get offshore to reduce the cost of compliance and government paperwork as to try to alter their tax exposure.

    Note that even for the little guy, these actions are legal and fairly easy. Globalization is indeed for the little guy. More and more little guys will be taking advantage of it in the next couple of years to survive insane tax increases.

  • Adjoran

    The USA isn’t the only country to double-tax overseas earnings; we are the only one of the fifteen “industrialized” economies to do so.

    It is of course an idiotic policy. Overseas earnings are only subject to the taxation when they are repatriated – if the money comes back home to be spent here as dividends or retained earnings. If the money stays overseas to be reinvested there, it is not subject to US taxation.

    Our government says to those companies still domiciled here, “Bring your profits home to invest here and we’ll take our cut, or keep them overseas and avoid the tax.”

    Stupidity in practice.

  • scotj63

    We will all bang our heads if we try to understand how people could be so dense as to advocate a policy such as this. We simply cannot understand the mindset of the current socialist leadership and should not even try. They have spent their entire lives convinced that the pursuit of profit is the evil within current society. At some point the delusion becomes so real that they assume without question that any policy that confiscates additional profits is totally logical. We forget that the Soviet Union ran an entire society for 70 years completely devoted to this principle and millions around the world are still convinced that it will work if they just do it right. These power mad Socialists cannot be reasoned with and must be defeated, ridiculed and publicly banished as the Anti American cabal they are.

    This is a consequence of Republican leadership surrendering their ideals and not consistently living the principles that made this the greatest country in history in only 233 years. This is the consequence of American loving Democrats surrender their oath to the constitution for the illusion of power. Elections have consequences and now we all must live with the results our uneducated and uninformed electorate chose.

    The good news is that this is destined to fail as history has proved numerous times. The bad news is will be how long our pain will last and what will we rebuild with? Will our leaders stop being scared of public scorn by the leftist media and start speaking the truth to the American people? They cannot yet be stopped from talking but any socialist system knows that suppression of speech and liberty is required to remain in power.

    Scott

    • http://impudent.blognation.us/blog kyle8

      unfortunately We do not yet see the right kind of articulate and principled leadership appear in our party. Until that does we will only have a lot of inchoate anger as millions of people are hurt.

      As it stands now they are as likely to still blame Bush and republicans for everything bad.

  • mikefisk

    Are these people so marinated in pure ideology that they can?t even ponder the unintended consequences of these silly actions?

    That’s a rhetorical question, right?

    I mean, we know the answer…

  • youthgrunt

    There is nothing evil about “ideology” in and of itself. The problem here is that it is the WRONG ideology. There are ideologies that align much better with “the real world”.

  • omar

    There isn’t a single American corporation that pays it’s full 35% tax. While we may have the largest taxes on paper, in practice our companies pay some of the least taxes. That said, double taxing seems mind bogglingly stupid on the face of it but if you think about it, it’s not actually going to change much of anything. If we didn’t tax external profits when they’re brought into the US then US government opens the door to tremendous tax revenue losses. If they didn’t get taxed here they could do all their business somewhere else and the government wouldn’t be able to tax them a penny. Just because you CAN bring it home doesn’t mean you WILL. If business is booming else where THAT’S where you’re going to build more factories etc. Especially when you factor in our exhorbant labor costs and lazy workers. Practically speaking there is no company that is going to just up and move because they can’t directly ship profit home. I’m pretty sure other countries have a similar “exit” tax to discourage pulling profits out of their country.

    And you can’t possibly tell me that you’re against going after rich bastards who evade taxes by putting their money in some swedish account.

    • Martin Knight

      That said, double taxing seems mind bogglingly stupid on the face of it but if you think about it, it?s not actually going to change much of anything.

      Explain this. Expand on it a little. This sort of argumentation (by assertion) doesn’t work on conservative sites.

      If we didn?t tax external profits when they?re brought into the US then US government opens the door to tremendous tax revenue losses.

      Note again that these external profits have already been taxed, and note again that America is the only industrialized nation that does this. Do you understand the concepts of competitive advantage and opportunity cost?

      You may have read what Skan wrote but I’m not sure you were successful in comprehending it.

      • omar

        When I say it seems mind bogglingly stupid, I mean it. I don’t agree with it either, in principle. I don’t like the idea of double taxing corporations but like I said, it wouldn’t change much. I sorta went into that, There is no significant benefit to pulling the money home. If you’ve ever worked in a truly global corporation you’d understand that if another market is large enough then investing and building factories etc. there is more cost effective. In our somewhat unique case we’re building factories in China to sell products to the Chinese. We will pay chinese taxes but we’re an American corporation, our profits get reported here and our shareholders etc. benefit. But the american government isn’t making any tax revenue on all the money we’re making. And china and everywhere else is where the money and growth is. These are the massive markets of the future.
        What the complaint should be is not that corporations would be double taxed, but that this is extremely protectionist. The obvious intent is to discourage investment in other countries.
        Just because OTHER industrialized countries don’t do this doesn’t mean we shouldn’t. I think it’d be fairly easy to say that we have the largest problem with outsourcing and extremely global corporations that have significant profits coming from over seas. The vast majority of the growth has been in emerging markets such as China, So the problem is how do you bring in the necessary tax revenue without double taxing?

        • GregInFla

          What right does the US Govt have to tax profits made in other countries anyways? Why should the US Govt benefit when companies are forced to go overseas to compete. These libs feel that every dollar that people and companies get to keep is a tax break. This attitude really irks me. The money is ours (well, actually God’s first). Of course, if government has a god-complex and wants to replace God, then that might explain it.

      • scotj63

        Instead of being so concerned about the evil corporations paying exorbitant taxes, why not eliminate corporate income taxes entirely. Companies don’t pay the taxes … customers and shareholders do. Any taxes corporations pay are part of the cost of their product or service. Think of the vast efficiency available to our economy by eliminating distortions of corporate tax decisions and the massive competitive power of US products on the world market … not to mention the increased purchasing power of the consumer. The irony is that corporate federal tax revenues are only about $350 Billion annually … a rounding error in the Obama administration.

        Eliminating this illogical tax combined with a flat income tax or fair tax and we could supercharge our economy to the point that we might actually be able to pay for “some” of the government already committed.

        Why do we not have a rational tax system? How else would politicians gain power and control if they don’t have a tax system to punish or reward based on their own self interest and agenda. No sense fooling ourselves… we don’t have a handful of elected Republicans who would be willing to give up that power either.

        Scott

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com LJ “Beaglescout” Miller

    Phase II was Sarbanes-Oxley, which has forced many public companies private and forced other companies that were going to go public to have their IPOs outside the US.

    The result of Phase III will be for companies to go offshore. Because Sarbanes-Oxley and other US laws have been applied against foreign companies merely for doing business in the US, they will not even sell their product in the US. Then the irony will be total, and Americans will no longer be able to patronize the companies they used to work for before Present Obama became the maximum leader of the USSSA.