The First Evening of the ICCC - Vaclav Klaus, Richard Lindzen


This sure is more enlightening than what algore has to say....

Well, Moe and I are sitting in the media room at the ICCC in New York, following the evening’s dinner and opening talks. Moe videoed Vaclav Klaus’ talk, and then left to wrestle with getting the video uploaded for processing.

I took extensive notes this evening. The events consisted of opening remarks by Heartland Institute President Joe Bast, main addresses by the President of the Czech Republic (and for the first half of this year, “rotating” President of the European Union) Vaclav Klaus and MIT Sloan Professor of Meteorology Richard Lindzen, and then a long Q&A session involving both men.

Both speakers were great; President Klaus is a formidable man.

I’ll try to summarize the key things that struck me and that I committed to a scrawl (that I can hopefully read) in my notebook.


In his opening remarks, Joe Bast noted that 80% of the IPCC “contributors” were not scientists. Well, that’s interesting - since the thermophobes regularly try to stamp down anyone who is not explicitly a “climate scientist.”


Vaclav Klaus is clearly a rock star. He got a standing ovation when he was introduced, a standing ovation when he finished, and many interruptions for applause.

He compared the present AGW orthodoxy to the days of communism - something with which he is personally familiar. As was the case with communism, AGW orthodoxy now seems to be completely unaffected by, well, reality. This is a depressing situation.

Since, in his capacity as President of the Czech Republic, he meets with numerous world leaders, he noted an odd happening. He’s noted a tendency for the most radical proposals for the reduction of CO2 emissions (as much as 80%, off-the-cuff) to come from leaders whose own countries have failed to come even close to meeting their very modest Kyoto reduction goals.

His biggest immediate political concern is the way AGW has fueled the growth of a large rent-seeking sector. He grouped these into those who profit from the trading of various “emission licenses,” various “alternative energy” producers, those who profit from the replacement of food crops with non-food crops (which has effectively caused “food losses” and global food shortages), and those who do well on the “speaking circuit” (Al Gore and Tim Flannery??).

Can we educate those who make decisions? The problem now is that we are not debating science; this is an argument against environmental activism.

He noted (and in this, speaking as a scientist MYSELF, I strongly agree) that “climate science” is far too complex to be its own field; it requires many pieces from other disciplines. President Klaus holds a Ph.D. in economics, so this was a good thing for him to recognize. This is a very complicated problem, and the “science” surrounding it is so diverse that there are many ways to attack the problem. (I personally have my own thoughts, coming in along a line of statistics, but that’s a story for another day.)

One thing he has noted, taking the cue from his long career in econometric modeling, is that the climate system is obviously much less sensitive to CO2 than had “originally” been expected.

He noted very trenchantly that environmentalists are technology-naive in a very schizophrenic (his word) way. At base, environmentalists hate technology; however, the “green technology” future depends on newer inventions that they desperately want - in fact, it depends on technologies that have not been invented yet. Based on this, he noted that this is “an irrational practice with fatal consequences.” For probably the first time in human history, the “plan” is to abandon existing technologies before new technologies become available.

Environmentalists don’t want to change the climate - they want to change us; this is subtly revealed in the way they prefer “prevention” to even any thought of “adaptation.” “They want to ’save the planet’…. From what? From whom? The reality is that we have to save the planet from them.”


The second keynote was given by Professor Richard Lindzen, who holds the Sloan Chair in Meteorology at MIT. I’ve been familiar with Professor Lindzen’s scientific work for some time - he’s very good. Most of his talk was about trying to “do science” against the seeming floodtide of AGW arrogance. However, as he noted at the outset, we shouldn’t stop trying.

A key problem is that the whole AGW alarmist bandwagon has always been a political movement, and not a scientific one. There are many simple truths that our side often forgets.

One big problem for scientists (particularly academic scientists) is that endorsing AGW simply makes your scientific/professional life easier; he noted many examples of scientists who rose from obscurity to prominence simply by noting possible effects of “global warming” on whatever it was they were working on.

Perhaps the whole problem now boils down to one of “science” vs. “authority,” with the AGW alarmists acting now as “authority.” The alarmist movement has always sought to gain control of the mechanisms dealing with carrots and sticks; however, this has led to the co-option of science by politics - which has badly corrupted “science.” (I’ll note that this is similar to the notion of separating church and state; the common argument is that this is necessary to prevent politics from being corrupted by religion - but the reality is more often the opposite form of corruption. The situation in this case is similar.) He noted that one can greatly increase the chances of a positive result for your funding proposal (in anything) by including that you will examine the “effect of global warming” on whatever….

“Guesses allow anything to be projected.”

What can be done? We have to persevere, because ultimately logic trumps “authority.”

His most important technical part of the talk was to note the role that feedback mechanisms play in the world and in AGW modeling (this is something several of us discussed a few days ago). In order to produce appropriately “alarmist” results, the AGW models require the inclusion of various forms of positive feedback. Saying something that I’ve noted myself over many years, this is basically counter-intuitive to our observations of nature; complex systems in the natural world actually are based very strongly on negative feedback - they basically have a high-degree of self-regulation, and do not get knocked off their pins very easily. “Nature is dominated by negative (stabilizing) feedback, not positive (destabilizing) feedback.” (My own addition to this thought is that in very select and extreme circumstances, complex systems can organize themselves into critical states; however, the climate system simply shows no signs of going into that state of organization. But again, that’s a topic for another day.)

He also noted that the AGW models assume a “greenhouse effect” that is some seven times larger than what is actually observed in nature.

“Climate models represent unintelligent design.”

He noted, as per pronunciamentos from “professional organizations,” that activist board members claim to speak for the “organization” when they have never polled their members on these issues. This is, in my view, particularly noisome, as it represents an attempt to hijack an organizational label to try to amplify the personal views of a very small number of people.

The whole AGW gig has set back climate science as a field of study. It now depends entirely on gross oversimplifications that represent poor science.

He also landed on a topic that I have myself noted - that even on “our” side, there is often too much emphasis on trying to find a “forcing function” other than CO2 to try to explain the supposedly-measured warming; he particularly noted that the studies that try to link the temperature variations to minor variations in solar output are (my words here) trying to create an overspecified representation of the system. If you look at the temperature changes claimed for “global warming,” these variations are tiny when compared even with the daily variations in temperature. The “null hypothesis” is that there is no need for external forcing to produce the observed behavior; the atmosphere is dominated by turbulent fluctuations, and the observed effects do not require specific causes.

These comments landed close to home for me personally, since this is actually my own experienced view on this topic. The entire argument from the AGW side treats the climate system as being deterministic, and the counter-arguments often slip into the mode of seeking another “driver” for that determinism. The problem is, the climate system is clearly statistical in nature - and in statistical systems you can observe “effects” (more like what you think are effects) that do not require specific causes.

We should persevere because we’re right. Nature is dominated by negative feedback mechanisms. Again saying something that I personally had long ago concluded, climate variability is so intrinsically large as to preclude the ability to even find AGW at the small levels that are being claimed for it. And, of course, nature just doesn’t follow the models….


There was a Q&A period after the talks, where spectators were able to ask questions of both President Klaus and Professor Lindzen. Most of this was fairly anodyne, but I’ll try to note a few highlights - usually in comments thusly prompted from the two gents.

President Klaus noted (pre-empting a question I was going to ask) that compared with twenty years ago, there has been an enormous reduction in CO2 emissions in eastern Europe - due entirely to the collapse of communism and the elimination of all those big, dirty, inefficient Soviet-style industrial projects. (The EU has deviously tried to use the 1990 base values for CO2 emissions as its starting point for percentage-reductions - since the EU now includes many of those countries; this is such a cheat that President Obama’s “climate envoy,” Todd Stern, has told them to forget about it.)

President Klaus noted that he hadn’t given much thought to “negative feedback” until hearing Professor Lindzen’s talk this evening. He noted that this is a marvelous observation, indicating that we really need better popularization of good science and good scientific principles.

President Klaus noted that a recent poll in his homeland found that only 11% of Czechs think that it’s possible for humans to intentionally modify the climate. (School-improvement advocates - find out why the Czechs seem to understand reality.)

Claudia Rosett (the famous reporter) asked about the UN’s trouble-making in this sphere. President Klaus noted that he has only bothered to go to the UN once, and that we should take this as representing his opinion of the organization.

Professor Lindzen noted that one big thing that needs to be done is to make sure that the general public understands the enormous impacts (financial and otherwise) that “reductions” will have on us.

President Klaus closed by noting that right now, the battle is not a “scientific debate,” but a battle of science vs. ideology.

As things were breaking up, and I was chatting with someone, I suddenly found myself standing in front of President Klaus, so I took advantage of the opportunity to ask the question I wanted to ask during the Q&A. I asked if the recent “gas crisis” - which really made it clear that Europe has become far too dependent on Russia for its energy supplies (and yes, I’m looking at you Germany for foolishly bowing to your Green Party nitwits and closing down your nuclear plants) - would cause the notion of an “alternative energy future” in Europe to be exposed as dangerous nonsense…. “dangerous” in the particular sense that the ultimate reality would be incredible dependence on Russia (and Russian whims) for energy supplies. He said that in his opinion, this shock wasn’t enough (at least this time) to change the debate in Europe.


Well, I hope that’s a good “meal” for everyone. I want to proofread this, post it, and pack it in. We start bright and early on Monday morning with a breakfast session. The main speakers will be newly-minted California congressman Tom McClintock - a long-time solid conservative from the Golden State - and Lawrence Solomon, Canadian journalist and author of The Deniers.

After that, we split up into four parallel tracks, which appear to be two on science and two on politics. I’ll be covering the science, and Moe will be covering the politics. Hopefully we’ll be able to get posts onto the FP during the day, rather than having to wait until evening. We’ll do our best.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ from NYC….

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30 Comments Leave a comment

Right on!

TNJim Sunday, March 8th at 11:07PM EDT (link)

“A key problem is that the whole AGW alarmist bandwagon has always been a political movement, and not a scientific one.”

I’ve always thought that. Personally, I think it’s THE problem.

image

“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane

 

Thanks so much for attending and reporting to us.

Praying Sunday, March 8th at 11:12PM EDT (link)

As a geologist who soundly debunks the whole AGW charade, I was interested in attending this symposium myself, but couldn’t get the schedule and finances to cooperate. I’m sure that if the MSM covers this at all, it will be with a typical leftist spin, so I’m eager to hear all the details BOTH on the politics and especially on the science. Good luck tomorrow!

 

Excellent Report Skanderbeg

Scope Sunday, March 8th at 11:31PM EDT (link)

Glad to hear that President Klaus is a rock star. I’ve read a little about him, and understand that he says it like it is, and doesn’t worry about political correctness. I loved your education dig, it would solve a multitude of problems in the US if we taught realistically rather than with science fiction and political ideology.

Thank you to you and Moe for attending this event, and reporting back with some very very good news.

 

analogy to supply and demand

tankertodd Monday, March 9th at 12:06AM EDT (link)

Re: complex systems in the natural world actually are based very strongly on negative feedback - they basically have a high-degree of self-regulation, and do not get knocked off their pins very easily.

Could we say the same about supply and demand if we think of it as a system that self-regulates? When items are scarce price increases, thus regulating the demand.

If we can make that analogy isn’t it also interesting that liberals have for years tried to regulate the laws of supply and demand? Price controls? Rationing? Even gouging laws interfere with this natural and effective system.

———————————
The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race - Chief Justice Roberts

 

Regarding negative feedback

DerKrieger Monday, March 9th at 12:09AM EDT (link)

Last fall I came across an article that reported a 13% increase in plant life around the planet presumably in response to the increase in atmospheric CO2. I thought at the time that this was an obvious and perfectly natural response as the planet seeks balance. I Googled the article and haven’t been able to find it since that day and nor have I read any other articles addressing this obvious response. The oceans are even more sensitive to atmospheric changes, has anyone seen any articles regarding increased ocean based plant life? I’d wager that there has been an increase.

“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” - Thomas Jefferson

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence (OBAMACARE – mine), the money of their constituents.” – James Madison

 

We found some "drivers" and they are culpable to us.

MrMosis Monday, March 9th at 12:22AM EDT (link)

These comments landed close to home for me personally, since this is actually my own experienced view on this topic. The entire argument from the AGW side treats the climate system as being deterministic, and the counter-arguments often slip into the mode of seeking another “driver” for that determinism. The problem is, the climate system is clearly statistical in nature - and in statistical systems you can observe “effects” (more like what you think are effects) that do not require specific causes.

This was a fantastic paragraph. Why is this very important concept so difficult for so many of them to grasp, these brilliant “scientists” (20% I guess) they are?

It reminds me of attempting to characterize the acts of a butterfly as morally reprehensible because there is something you personally don’t fancy about the effects.


“I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Ipsum esse subsistens

ooops

MrMosis Monday, March 9th at 12:24AM EDT (link)

Guess I don’t know how to do RS 3.0 markup. First paragraph in parent comment is skanderbeg’s.

And I forgot: thanks to both of you for being there.


“I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Ipsum esse subsistens

I should add

MrMosis Monday, March 9th at 12:54AM EDT (link)

Not only does it remind me of seeking out a butterfly to blame (setting aside the silliness of assigning moral culpability to one single entity in an interwoven web of causal forces) but also of ignoring the acts of the moths (nevermind whales, alligators, dinosaurs, the sun, the moon, other planets, comets, dark matter, other galaxies, etc.)


“I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Ipsum esse subsistens

 
 
 

Not closing my eyes on science: Climate may really change.

Rod_Patrick Monday, March 9th at 1:25AM EDT (link)

But my main problem against Climate Change theory is this:

We don’t have enough scientific and technical capability yet to understand, analyze and control it.

We are stuck in using models, as if Climate is just like the stock market that can be predicted.

Most often than not….. models always cause catastrophic failure to their believers. They are very subjective and politics make them more “unreliable”.

Climate "CYCLES" (change and change again as it shifts)

JLenardDetroit Monday, March 9th at 1:54AM EDT (link)

Climate “CYCLES” (change and change again as it shifts)

Today we have been suffering a drought that could have (read: would have) been every bit as bad as the Dust Bowl past…. IF it had occurred in the same area…. The fact is that this CYCLE has come back and SHIFTED eastward…. FL/GA (as well as other States) are in this drought about the same size/scope as the Dust Bowl drought but the FACT that it is occurring, having shifted, in a region that has far more of its own natural fresh water (lakes, rivers, and that we have tapped into large underground water reserves that we bring up, etc) which has help us survive it without the devastation of past LOCALIZED drought cycle!

Floods and Droughts cycle through areas on a LOCALIZED basis and people are too stupid (allow themselves to fall into the POLITICS of the matters that the Global Alarmists use rather than) to review Facts and History…. These CLIMATE CYCLES (shifts, rotations, etc) occur over (in many cases) so many Generations the big picture is lost in the hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More at Obama (& other Dems, and duped Republicans) to push Global Warming (Change) agenda despite the current scientific data

(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)

That's exactly my problem bro.

Rod_Patrick Monday, March 9th at 2:28AM EDT (link)

Instead of spending money to prevent climate change…… why not spend a great deal to find ways to protect ourselves from climate change.

Using the arguments of the Democrats that science and technology are so unlimited and open new avenues: Why not use all these global money in useful modern devices and high-tech infrastructure for disaster mitigation in times of prolonged drought, prolonged winter, flood controls, effective wind breakers/deflectors, etc.?

Our priority should be on things that we can have “direct”controls on.

I really smell hypocrisy here:

If the Dems in our society can accept that gay is a “NATURAL” behavior of man that cannot be fought or controlled by the individual that exhibits it, why can’t they accept the fact that Climate Change is a customary behavior of NATURE and we, mere mortals, have very limited powers to control it.

The sad thing is this: We are exploring ways to control Climate Change by sacrificing our very own means to pursue further economic development.

China "gets it" in this regard

JLenardDetroit Monday, March 9th at 2:46AM EDT (link)

China has many Projects to deal with Flood/Drought cycles and to counter the one actual MAN MADE problem in the Climate Change regard which is the amount of Water we use up and don’t help replenish!!! Once such Project view here!

Many Michiganders FEAR the diversion of the Great Lakes… I DO NOT… Frankly I think that we should have started DECADES AGO on connecting the Great Lakes off Lake Michigan with a workable/navigable waterway westward to link the Lakes up with the Mississippi, Missouri, and the Colorado….. This would aid/assist on Passenger and Consumer Goods transit as well as allowing us to mitigate FLOOD/DROUGHT cycles that generally DO NOT occur all at the same time throughout all those regions. A series of Control Gates and/or Locks could be put in place.

All this would also allow us to reclaim dry/arid lands westward along this Project as it connects outward to the Colorado!!!

(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)

We both posted at about the same time.

Flagstaff Monday, March 9th at 3:05AM EDT (link)

I’ve too frequently talked with my wife about the need for a water pipeline from Michigan/the Missouri/Mississippi/Ohio flood plains to Arizona. I have figured that the Rockies and the great rise in elevation have been a physical barrier that’s as formidable as the political one.

I like your idea of a navigable waterway, but out here a lot would be lost to evaporation (I think).

And just think how many jobs would be created in the process.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

we can move the water as westward as possible anyway... PLUS...

JLenardDetroit Monday, March 9th at 3:41AM EDT (link)

a great swath of open land (possibly a current dry lake-bed) could be turned into a Lake (over a great/long period of time of course)…. PLUS… over some of the great area of land we move this water we can put those High Voltage tension wires to move our Electricity no-one wants to let be built and even in the areas of the country that are open and windy those pesky high/ugly Wind Generated Electrical Towers can be put up and put directly into the grid via those new High Tension wires!!!!

All this really needed to be started ages ago… as I’ve already said…. because it is unfortunate that land acquisition and Right-of-ways will take forever in and of itself… Not to mention the Enviro-Terrorists that will want to block it even though we’d be working to “Save The Planet” in some senses….

Again, too late when we’re all starving when our Farms can’t produce enough to feed the US let alone most the World.

As far as moving the water westward… It doesn’t have to all be above ground…. the further west we go the main purpose would be for moving the water rather than a usable (commerce/passengers) waterway…. Tunneling to avoid elevation and/or evaporation issues…. HOWEVER, even putting water westward that evaporates is helpful… water has to be evaporated in order for rain cycles to build….

(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)

 
 
 
 

Just in case there is someone who doesn't already know it,

Flagstaff Monday, March 9th at 2:58AM EDT (link)

There has been an ongoing drought in the Southwest USA for about 15 years. It has been especially bad in Arizona. Technology has mitigated some of the effects on humans here, but the forests, prairies, and wildlife have suffered.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

which is our point... had we done groundwork these past decades....

JLenardDetroit Monday, March 9th at 3:18AM EDT (link)

The Floods throughout the middle of the Country could have been dissipated eastward and westward helping to mitigate drought in those locales… OBVIOUSLY, there will be tons of people saying “we cannot have POSSIBLY know these things were coming” to which I say BULL!!! We know the Cycles have occurred in the past and will occur again in the future and we could/should prepare for them beyond building GOLF COURSES to use as Flood run-off (which a generation or so later, the people forget the REAL PURPOSE the darn Golf Course land was set aside and begin to meddle with its most important purpose - Flood Control, not true of all Golf Courses of course - and shape and remodel the darn thing for the “Golfers, ” Housing to overlook the beautiful Golf Course, etc, and then are all darn surprised when it FLOODS - or worse, doesn’t Flood and perform its run-off function causing some other area that WASN’T FORMERLY a Flood area to Flood)….

Rio Grand could/should be better managed and even Desalination plants put in place to help bring Fresh Water inland using that NATURAL PATH!

It will be TOO LATE when all of America is starving because are Farms have no Water to grow anything with!!!! These actions could be taking place NOW…. None of that has anything to do with the need for FEAR TACTICS of Global Warming Paranoia (just common sense reasoning as we’ve outlined here)! Done with purpose but without PANIC to mitigate the costs of what would be a massive undertaking - you want Long Term Jobs? rather than Obama’s 1-2 year patch the roads temporary BS, this would do that…. HOWEVER, this should have started to take place during BOOM TIMES, when the Nation can afford to start to undertake these types of things, rather than during a down economy - the current sense of urgency over jobs could be used to get these going as I’d rather see this (IMO) sensible concept over all the WASTEFUL and USELESS IN THE LONG TERM Special Interest monies being pissed away by the Democrats…. This would benefit the entire country over the long term!

(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)

These are the types of projects that really combat Climate Change.

Rod_Patrick Monday, March 9th at 3:58AM EDT (link)

Pointing out Flagstaff’s comment, I really think that spending billions of dollars in preventing forest fires will create an astounding result. I am willing to make sacrifices in paying my taxes for this kind of project.

But I don’t want the Congress to hide it as an earmark project. This must be made and implemented as a transparent program/project. Everyone should be aware of it. Project to me means that there is a start and an end to the activity and funding. If it fails, then let us all recognize it as it is without any hype. If it succeeds, then try to think of how the private sector can come in to sustain it.

The same should apply to other potential disaster/environmental mitigation projects.

I (as you and many others) keep saying that, with noone listening

JLenardDetroit Monday, March 9th at 4:18AM EDT (link)

There is NOTHING more important than taking care of the Trees that give us the Oxygen we need and taking away the CO2…. We heard for DECADES the hue and cry about “Save The RainForests” and yet they (Enviro-Terrorists) REFUSE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE FIRES HERE AT HOME!!!!! They always block our attempts to save Land (Trees) from Fires through Land Management - though we have to admit some attempts at “controlled burns” have “burned” (pardon the bad pun) us…. However, had we been able to properly allow companies in to cut Fire breaks, clear under-brush and dying Trees (not profitable for them, but they’re willing to do if it is part of the greater process of logging responsibilities), etc….

Coupled with working to moving some water through those areas as we’ve discussed would help serve as breaks and provide the water we need when we do have to fight the NATURAL (and/or Arson) FIRES that do occur!

(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)

not to mention.... re-planting

JLenardDetroit Monday, March 9th at 4:21AM EDT (link)

the worlds greatest renewable resource that gives us Homes, Paper, wood for heating, etc….

(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)

 

Ha ha.

Rod_Patrick Monday, March 9th at 4:43AM EDT (link)

I know.

Regardless of the CO2 bruhaha, saving/nurturing/expanding our Forests is is the only viable way to address many of our problems. Planting more trees in the cities can also be a good strategy.

On the other hand, I just love trees. I love the country atmosphere because of the colorful forest leaves especially during autumn. My wife says that she feels safer and closer to God whenever she’s surrounded by beautiful trees. And I agree.

I REALLY BELIEVE THAT WE CAN COMBAT THE CLIMATE CHANGE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS BY MAKING A CASE FOR REBUILDING AND MANAGEMENT OF OUR FORESTS.

Gore’s Climate Change strategy is hypothetical. A Massive Program for Forest sustainability and expansion management is more realistic and has more immediate positive economic impacts. I believe in sustainable forest utilization and cultivation. It will create jobs for our minority group, especially the great Indian communities. My favorite people, the Hillbillies in the mountain, will also be happy for this kind of opportunities. I think no one can really enumerate the various useful products that can be obtained from the trees especially natural medicine.

But please make no mistake. If we bring down one tree, we must plant at least 10 seedlings to ensure its replacement. And we need to respect some harvesting cycles to allow for that replacement to succeed.

Amen... Dem's are about Control, not conserving/preserving

JLenardDetroit Monday, March 9th at 4:53AM EDT (link)

And again… The Left was always on about Trees before… they can’t be bothered now…. and we all know it is because they have the GLOBAL WARMING BS to use as Political fodder now they spend all their time pushing. It is ALL about Politics and Control to them, that is all! We Conservatives are the ones actually concerned about conserving and preserving the Planet by having reasonable/caring policies rather than hype!

Despite its obvious and usual Left-wing-bent Politics… I loved the movie: WALL-E…. Maybe, just maybe, it will get some youth worrying about Trees again and open to our message!!!!

(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)

I agree bro.

Rod_Patrick Monday, March 9th at 5:45AM EDT (link)

The Left wing-nuts’ rhetorics on Forest Conservation is flawed. Their theory is to keep the Forest untouched.

This is wrong. Untouched forest will naturally result to wildfires, which also occur naturally.

I think that this conference as discussed in the diary will also touch on both forest management and “biomass technologies” to combat climate change.

But I believe that discussing forest management, forest products, and biomass technologies is more appropriate in a “non-political” arena that focuses on sustainable economic development. National disaster mitigation is just one of the societal needs that can draw our attention to forest sustainable management and utilization.

 
 
 
 
 

And the EnvironMentalMidgets have brought additional drought

Flagstaff Monday, March 9th at 4:04AM EDT (link)

to California with their insistence on saving some obscure fish. Rather than being sent to the farms, water’s being diverted to make sure the fish have their swimming pools.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

Well

Rod_Patrick Monday, March 9th at 4:19AM EDT (link)

We all know that there are so many things going on in California but I can truly say that none of them will address any environmental or climate change problems.

Since 1988, California has been destroyed by political climate change.

Nowadays, average Californians don’t know who the Real Americans are: They think that Illegal Immigrants are more American than the American Conservatives/Republicans.

 
 
 
 
 

The Maya understood it 1,000's of years ago....

JLenardDetroit Monday, March 9th at 3:51AM EDT (link)

They had the Calendars demonstrating and acting as their reminder for planning on the Cycles …. Yet the supposed “Scientists” of today can’t grasp the simple concept and focusing on Cycle prediction…. OF COURSE, we humans have indeed had “SOME” effect with the countless numbers of us on the Planet and our having altered the lands (Dams, diversions, artificial Lakes, etc) and our use of the Water/Land - but IMO NOT to the cataclysmic paranoid state of the Global Alarmists insist. Our use has made SOME impact as to possibly SHIFTING some of the weather patterns and we can (as we discuss above) do so to HELP (as we did with Hoover Dam, for one example) to the benefit of Man and Nature.

(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (Reco) (Quotes) (removeRINOs.com) (Merry RSmas)
+ 0bama Lies & your Bank acct will Die! (4/15 Truthers)
+ Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
+ I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” - a Rush caller (other Quotes)

 
 

Thanks for a great report.

Flagstaff Monday, March 9th at 3:06AM EDT (link)

I’ll be watching for updates.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

 

Thanks to both of you guys. This is important work. nt

Vladimir Monday, March 9th at 7:50AM EDT (link)

There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted. - Arthur Schopenhauer

 

Thanks, 'berg.

skorrent1 Monday, March 9th at 10:39AM EDT (link)

I especially appreciated:

“Again saying something that I personally had long ago concluded, climate variability is so intrinsically large as to preclude the ability to even find AGW at the small levels that are being claimed for it.”

Let me quantify that. The diurnal variation in temperature at any one location is between ten and several tens of degrees F. The annual variation runs from several tens to more than a hundred degrees F. The temperature variation around the globe at any one time runs close to two hundred degrees F. But the AGW types are attempting to measure variations in the “average” (of an “average” of an “average”) global temperature over a decade that amounts to a few HUNDREDTHS of a degree F. If it were even possible, does it have any meaning?

beg not berg

Skanderbeg Monday, March 9th at 1:07PM EDT (link)

Actually, no “berg” involved - it’s Skanderbeg.

That’s the heck of this. It’s like “0.6 +/- 10″. WTH????

My bad!

skorrent1 Tuesday, March 10th at 9:58PM EDT (link)

I sorry.

 
 
 

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