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Memo to the American Jewish Community: If you want to make amends…

for the Palin snub, consider these options

I, for one, tire of the many snubs the American Jewish community routinely throws at Republicans, conservatives and evangelical Christians.

If my ethnic and spiritual homeland had the nickname of being the “one-bomb” state, I’d think twice about snubbing the allies I did have.

I, for one, consider the rude disinviting of Sarah Palin one more in a long line of snubs.

If the American Jewish community holds any misperception, that we unsophisticated Christianists on the right haven’t noticed these snubs, let me dispel them. We have noticed, and (for me, at least), it’s really starting to rankle.

I don’t like being taken advantage of. (I’ll explain why I feel that way in just a second).

But, if you wish, there are some concrete things you can do to make amends for treating Governor Palin so rudely. (I’ll lay those out in a second, too).


Khruschev once called Berlin the “testicle” of the West. Anytime he wanted to make the West wince, he boasted, he squeezed on Berlin.

If I may be blunt: Israel is the testicle of the United States. If Arabs—or anyone—squeezes on it, America winces.

Why? Because we are decent people. We will not turn our back on Israel. We will fight for it if necessary.

IMO, the Second Gulf War—or, Operation Iraqi Freedom—is a fight that America is waging, in large part, because Israel exists, and because Americans will fight on its behalf.

IMO, if Israel did not exist, George W. Bush could have found a way around the threat Saddam Hussein posed, short of open war. We could have used sanctions, bombing, etc…if we only needed to keep Hussein in his box.

But, deep down, we knew that Hussein—Saddam, or Uday or Qusay—wouldn’t strike at America. They’d strike at Israel instead.

They did it in 1991. Remember the SCUD strikes on Israel in Gulf War I? I do. Israel wasn’t a belligerent at that point…but no matter. Hussein struck at them because he could.

Again IMO, because he was concerned for Israel’s safety, George W. Bush reasoned that the only option he really had to deal with Hussein was to remove him.

Result: More than 4,000 American dead. And, many of those dead are drawn from the same conservative-leaning, Christian-heavy parts of American society that many American Jews seem eager to look down upon.

We’ve noticed.

So, American Jewish community, if you really care about showing your gratitude to the American political party that is the least likely to leave Israel to the tender multilateral mercies of the United Nations, there are some things you can do:

1) Flip a traditionally blue big state into the Republican column this year. How about Pennsylvania?
2) In a state with a large percentage of Jewish voters, elect an underdog Republican to the Senate. How about Frank Lautenberg’s opponent in NJ?
3) Elect a Republican to Congress in one of the close Congressional races. How about you go to RealClearPolitics, find a close Congressional race in PA or NJ or NY or FL, and elect the Republican.

These are all things you can do. Or, you can blow us off again.

Either way…we will notice.

COMMENTS

  • joe24pack

    Specifically, that all Jewish voters care about the fate of Israel, or that Jewish voters vote as a monolithic block.

    • smagar

      I concur that not all Jewish Americans care about the fate of Israel.

      But, those that do shouldn’t snub the allies Israel has.

      As I mentioned in my diary, one of the two major American political parties is much more amenable to seeking multilateral solutions to foreign affairs issues. On today’s earth, the multilateral approach more often than not does NOT favor Israel.

      Again, I don’t think that Israel has enough friends worldwide that it can afford to be rude and condescending to the friends it does have.

  • Jaded

    they will eventually be their own undoing by sticking with the Democrats….the Democrats will turn Israel over to the UN in the blink of an eye.

    • Elizabeth

      1. I really must second joe24pack’s observation that not all Jewish voters vote as a monolithic block. I can think of several prominent Jewish voices on the right just off the top of my head. To treat that (or any other) group as a monolithic block simply strengthens the Democrat’s claims to speak for all “real” members of those groups.

      2. Evangelical Christians don’t support Israel because of the policies, practices, or behavior of individual Jews. We support Israel because our God has declared the Jewish people to be His chosen people, the “apple of His eye”, and that those who curse Israel will be cursed and those who bless Israel will be blessed. Many of us consider them to be our forbears in our faith. Just as you wouldn’t abandon your grandparents, even if they were rude to you, we won’t abandon those whom our God loves even if their behavior doesn’t warrant that support. We may challenge them, argue with them, try to reason with them, cajole them, or whatever, but we won’t abandon them.

      • OccamsRazor

        This is a mistake by the Demo party. There are people who defend their lives and loves daily who don’t play politics every four years who learn to master the understanding of day to day survival.

        Barak Obama’s abandoment and outright refusal to ‘Never Forget’, to me is…wrong.

        • smagar
          1. I responded to joe24pack by conceding his point that Jews do not vote in a monolithic block. Where in my article did I come out and say that they did?

          Read Richard Baehr in the American Thinker. He’s written extensively on Jewish-American indifference to Republicans, especially at election time. American Jewish voters consistently vote in overwhelming percentages for Democrats. It’s not monolithic—but it’s pretty close.

          1. Elizabeth, if you read in my diary a threat to abandon Israel if more American Jews don’t vote for Republicans…well, you’re reading invisible ink.
  • mikeleader

    As a very politically aware Jewish conservative, I am not upset by brother Smagar’s exasperation.Good friends have a right (no an obligation ) to express displeasure and speak to redress grievances..namely ..the feeling that Jews are too willing to slog down the Democratic KoolAde and seem insensitive and ungrateful to our natural friends and allies Conservatives and Evangelicals.

    I have said much worse to Jews, echoing Smagar’s complaints… and slowly and inexorably the “matrix” is slipping away. At first I was only able to move my most Observant fellow, Jews but more and more the ranks are swelling and our ideas and philosophy are gaining hold among Jews of all persuasion..The Netroots antisemetic blogs are powerful shock treatments for my naieve fellow Jews.

    Speaking as a member of a “tribe”, whose religious beliefs have made us the targets for expulsion from our homes,blasphemies,discrimination,
    and genocide through out our 5000 years of history…loyalty to our friends and gratitude is embedded in our DNA.. you will never know the depth of our love for America and for friends like you.

    Bare with us ..Remember the words of Doc Holliday to Wyatt Earp ..borne out by the gunfight at the OK Corral..
    “Wyatt, I know it aint easy to be my friend, but when you really need me, I’ll be there for you”
    Like you, I hope the epiphany occurs sooner than later.

    • smagar

      I don’t seem to be getting through to you, and I’m fine with that. You seem unhappy with what I’ve written…and I’m fine with that, too.

      If your nose is out of joint because of what I wrote…hmmmm…give me a minute to figure out if I care about that.

      Nothing yet

      This could take a while. Oh look—Sunday Night Football is on!

      I’ll have to get back to you, 2006. Someday. Maybe.

      Or maybe not

      • smagar

        I hope that I won’t let you down in the future.

        (And, FYI, I was in Saudi Arabia with the 24th Infantry Division in 1991. I remember full well Israel’s restraint when Hussein fired SCUDs at it. You’re right that the DESERT STORM coaltion would have fractured if Israel had struck back. Saddam undoubtedly hoped to cause such a fracture by firing those SCUDs).

        I see and acknowledge your point about Jews in Israel and the US not feeling compelled to support Republicans at the polls. That’s not what motivated me to write the diary, though.

        What motivated me was the Palin snub.

        Voting records aside…if major American Jewish organizations really do value the support of Republicans…or simply think it’s important to treat them decently and with respect…then why was Palin disinvited?

        IMO that smacks of disrespect.

        Should we Republicans be good sports and pretend it didn’t happen? Should we follow the MSM’s lead and just drop the matter? (BTW, if the MSM is reporting on this issue now, it’s because the conservative blogosphere is pushing the story).

        I don’t think so. Not this time. If we register our displeasure loudly enough, maybe it will be less likely to happen in the future.

        • 2006_personoftheyear

          then saying you don’t care what they think as soon as they disagree won’t help. But more importantly, you still haven’t said that this is not a threat of any kind? I am gonna take it as one then…

          anyway if anyone is reading this and is getting worked up watch this before responding, because it is hard to stay angry after watching.

          • Pomme

            The cute 3-year-old defense! Works every time!

          • Rod_Patrick

            To gensec:

            I am fully aware of the issues by the Jews against the Republicans. Among others, it’s the conservative beliefs of “individualism” and being “uncaring to the poor” that the Jews despise so much. Among others, Jews live like a commune and they tend to favor their own kind. And the Story of Ruth and Boaz is very compelling on the need to take care of the less fortunate people. In addition, their experience with the holocaust against racial tyranny and oppression of the minorities are also the reasons why the Jews favor many of the policies of the left.

            Some may argue that the Jews political inclinations are now based on their actual experience in America and not in their own Jewish tradition (see example ). Still, collectivism, caring for the poor, fight against tyranny, and natural love for the minorities remain to the main reasons why many Jews tend to favor Democratic policies. In short, both tradition and experience are the gruelling factors on the political inclinations of many Jews.

            While they support Republican’s United Israel stance, their reckoning of the history was very simple: it was the Democratic Party leadership (i.e., Truman) which rallied America to support the Jews during the Seven Days War between Jews and the Arab Nation.

            But things have changed.

            1. It is now the Republican Party who supports Israel integrity 100%. Pres. Bush has suffered politically because of that stand. A Harvard study blamed the Jewish influence to Bush Administration that caused the decision to go against Saddam Hussein.

            2. It is now the Republican Party who supports “traditions” and preservation of our culture. Jewish people should align themselves with the Christians who are fighting to preserve their religion. The Conservatives are now fighting for the preservation of their community.

            3. It is now the Republican Party who supports cultural “individuality”. We are fighting for the preservation of cultural identity vs. the so-called “diversity” by the Democratic Party.

            4. There were times when both Democrats and Republicans support the preservation of right to life by the unborn and preservation of marriage for man and woman only. These issues were not a factor in the political decisions by the Jews before. Today, we already see the great divide between the two major parties. Jewish culture on this respect is more aligned to the Republicans.

            5. Some Jews are mistakenly believing that collectivism being preached by the socialists are the same as the Jewish traditional concept of “commune”. This is entirely wrong. In order to participate with a socialist collectivism, Jewish people must give up their communal identity and embrace a larger and more diversified culture as promised by socialist agenda.

            But the above are considered minute details of the Jewish dilemma.

            There is a greater, more pressing issue here which is Radical Islamism that targets the global destruction of Judeo-Christian religions and culture. The Democrats, believing in the issue of pacifism and appeasement, will put us in great peril. In this regard, Jews has to align themselves to the Republicans to protect our cherished culture. This is the basis of my viewpoint which you, gensec, has termed as “condescending” (read: narrow-minded?).

            Again, the above are my viewpoints and I have no intention of convincing everyone to believe the same.

          • gensec

            The fundamental flaw with your approach is presenting an argument as “Because you are <insert demographic class> you should agree with my opinion.”

            That kind of argument is invalid no matter who makes it to whom. Beyond that, it’s insulting and condescending when someone from group X uses that appeal to circumstance lecturing group Y on why most of them are wrong.

            And it’s silly to tell Jews that some opinions are against “Jewish culture” when those supposedly unJewish views are held by most Jews. To the extent there is a “Jewish culture” in America, what that culture is will be decided by Jews as a group.

            For example on your point (1) Iraq, a higher proportion of Jews oppose the war than Americans generally. In your (3) you claim that “Jewish culture … is more aligned to the Republicans” on abortion when in fact Jews are overwhelmingly pro-choice. You make the same unsupported claim about same sex marriage, and while I haven’t seen polls with Jewish counts on that, I’m pretty sure Jews are far more likely to support it. Maybe your complaint is that the majority of Jews aren’t meeting your standards of Jewishness.

            If you want more Jews to vote Republican, you have to convince more Jews to agree with the positions of Republican candidates. It doesn’t work to postulate that because they’re Jews they must already be pro-victory and pro-life, but Jews are voting for those anti-war pro-choice Democrats because they’re too dumb to know their positions. And if you want to persuade a Jew or anybody else to come around to your opinion, you’ll have a lot better chance if you leave out the “Jews should support…” part.

          • Justin_Case

            Any activist group would salivate at the prospect of having a sitting US Senator and a vice presidential candidate attend a rally. It guarantees exposure for their cause. From what I understand there were other political figures expected to attend.

            First, I would call Hillary Clinton’s actions petty and hurtful.

            Second, the groups you mentioned deserve much criticism with regard to their commitment to their cause.

            In years past I have been in an activist role here in my community (and yes, I have friends who are community organizers ;>)).

            The most successful media events or rallies are those with the most warm bodies. I have no idea what the event planners were thinking when they were guaranteed that a huge crowd would attend their event in order to see a vice presidential candidate, yet chose to dis-invite Sarah Palin.

            Sarah Palin will come out of this smelling like the rose she is. I really believe that.

            But, the event planners and the respective boards of directors, etc will have to answer to donors if this event turns out to be unsuccessful.

            Too bad for them.

          • Rod_Patrick

            Item 1: It’s insulting and condescending when someone from group X uses that appeal to circumstance lecturing group Y on why most of them are wrong.

            I am sorry if it?s insulting to you. That?s not my intention. I am not lecturing on the Jews. My focus is on similarity and I think that many conservatives should accept the Jews as they are. I am not even saying that they are wrong. In fact, I am trying to reach out. Note that I also respect that the Arab people have the right to exist just like the rest of us. It’s the extremism in radical Islamist that I oppose.

            Item 2: And it’s silly to tell Jews that some opinions are against “Jewish culture” when those supposedly unJewish views are held by most Jews. To the extent there is a “Jewish culture” in America, what that culture is will be decided by Jews as a group.

            What I know about the traditional Jewish culture is based on what I have heard and observed from my Jewish friends. Some things are very clear, though: Jews are a minority, Jews stick together, Jews have have “kind heart” to the poor and needy. I don’t have any problems with those views, in the first place. But I still observe that both secular and traditional Jews have their own distinct way of living, something that I refer to as ?Jewish Culture?. And I respect that. In fact, I enjoy their food and drink during their special days (i.e., feasts) except for the traditional Jews? Passover, of course. I am not sure if you are a Jew or not. But my respect of you as an American is what really matters here. And I speak of the same to everyone else, be they democrat or republican.

            Item 3: *A higher proportion of Jews oppose the war than Americans generally; Jews are overwhelmingly pro-choice; same sex marriage are far more likely to support it. *

            I am speaking of traditional and conversvative Jews. If I read you correctly, I would say that you are accusing ?all? American Jews of some principles that many of them don’t believe in. Some Jews may even take that as a serious charge (especially if it?s coming a Jew) because not many of them really believe that. The idea that many Jews are democrats because they are ?pro-choice? and ?pro-gay marriage? is antithetic. I still believe in the Stanford study that concluded that because of their minority status, American Jews tend to align themselves with liberal propaganda of “diversity”.

            In fact, that’s a major issue that even Jews argue by themselves. Here is an example of two Jews arguing on the issue. Link

            >

            Basically, what you’re up to is blaming American Jews for misleading their fellow-citizens, their communities, their friends: pretending to be aligned with American society while they really aren’t. This is a serious charge, with potentially grave consequences — a charge that shouldn’t be made lightly just for the sake of toying with outrageous ideas. And I must say I am not yet convinced about your motives (if you haven’t noticed, I’m the self-appointed responsible adult in this crowded neighborhood of rogue writers).

            So the question arises: Is this accusatory description of American Jewry even accurate? Many American Jews whom I know — who take the trouble to constantly marvel at the extent to which they are an integral part of the great American melting pot — might dispute your narrative. And they might be even right. *They see a tolerant society that can put up with the cultural and religious differences inherent in so many groups playing a part in it. They see an influential group overcoming the difficulties of being a true American minority while preserving its distinctiveness and uniqueness. * This, they will say, is not “lying” or “posturing,” but rather living a complicated and rich life in this shining city on the hill.

            In the above, a Jew is saying that the major reason for the political inclinations of liberal Jews was basically due to their “minority status” in terms of population.

            Item 4: Maybe your complaint is that the majority of Jews aren’t meeting your standards of Jewishness.

            I think you are unfair on this. I am speaking of practicing Jews, not the secular American Jews. And it is my belief that practicing Jews and practicing Christians are not that different when it comes to social values.

            Now, if you are referring to liberal, modern-day generation of American Jews who believe in gay marriage and pro-choice, the same thing should be said with the so called Christians who have the same stand. It?s not religion anymore. In fact, it?s about secularism within both Jewish and Christian communities that make them cling to liberal ideologies.

            Item 5: *If you want more Jews to vote Republican, you have to convince more Jews to agree with the positions of Republican candidates. It doesn’t work to postulate that because they’re Jews they must already be pro-victory and pro-life, but Jews are voting for those anti-war pro-choice Democrats because they’re too dumb to know their positions. *

            Please note that I?ve never said that Jews were ?dumb?. Never. I have no right to say such a thing. In fact, I believe that?s a sweeping statement. But that obviously did not come from me. I heard that before from Ann Coulter but she was speaking to Democrats in general.
            That?s why I am focusing on similarities, to point out that Jews and conservative Christians don?t differ so much. I repeat: If you are referring to American Jews, they are also not different to American Christians who are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. I believe that their position on these issues have nothing to do with their religion.

            Item 6: And if you want to persuade a Jew or anybody else to come around to your opinion, you’ll have a lot better chance if you leave out the “Jews should support…” part.

            I agree with you that we should not use ?demographic labeling?. But don? be na?ve. We need to come up with a position that somehow address the issues of different social groups. Or else, we will be ?out-of-touch?. In fact, that?s the main strategy of Obama and the Democratic Party to both Jews, Catholics, and somehow the Hispanics.

            Furthermore, please don?t forget that the topic of this diary is? Jewish Community ?making amends?. I don?t believe in making amends. Past is past and we should only remember them to teach us some wisdom in facing our future. Nothing more.

            Item 7: On Non-Zionist Jews.

            I understand that many secularized Jews are anti-Iraq War as the said position will only encourage anti-semitic views. Besides, they are Americans now and their position must be America First, rather than Israel. And I know that the MSM has already painted some pro-Iraq War Jews as neo-conservatives ? which is given by the democrats with derogatory meaning. This Non-Zionist view is now generally found to many ?young American Jews?. Jerusalem Post has an interesting idea on the matter. Link

            Many younger American Jews face an absence of information and rootedness regarding Israel and its story. In part, this disconnect is tied to the politics of disregard that seemed to define American Jewish institutional disengagement from Israel during the first intifada and beyond. Many in the community seemed to remove themselves from conscious involvement with Israel.

            The price of this political and cultural disconnect is a generation of younger Jews less equipped to reflect on the dimensions of Israel’s historic struggle for normalcy or on its geopolitical environment.

            This may be the single greatest tragedy of American Jewish indifference.

            Lastly, I am sorry if it hurts your feeling. After this, I will shut my mouth and I’ll let the Jews adresss their own issues in their own terms.

          • smagar

            For the misdirected post, that is

          • smagar

            by all means please do so. That’s my gift to you.

            If you want to run out in the street and yell (“Help! Help! I’m being repressed!”, have at it. You’ll be dating yourself if you do, though.)

            Although I’m not quite sure what I, a lone GOP commenter on a weblog, can do to “threaten” a voting block that routinely votes 70-80% of the time for the other party.

            And, personally, I’m not too interested in winning over Jewish voters. I think the GOP has done enough already. Especially when it comes to standing by Israel, time and time again when so few others would.

            I am interested in pointing out ingratitude and downright disrespect when I see it. And, IMO, we saw it last week when Sarah Palin was treated the way she way.

          • smagar

            If I’ve read correctly, it was Richard Nixon who pushed the US government to support Israel forcefully during the Yom Kippur War.

            See here.

  • cwilson

    and one that plays in to all the stereotypes the Left has about the War, the “neo-cons”, and the Right is that “it’s all about the Jooooos”.

    It isn’t.

    We went in to Iraq for a number of (IMO) good reasons — and some not-so-good, or that didn’t pan out — and most of them were unrelated to Israel (except insofar as ALL countries in the region would be, and are, better off with Saddam & Sons taking a dirt nap).

    Sure, it rankles that American Jewish groups are lockstep in support of Democrats, yet claim (officially) that they really really care about the status of Israel — while Republicans, and especially Conservatives and Evangelicals, are much more supportive of Israel than those Democrats. But…that just means these American Jewish groups are no different than, for instance, the NOW gang.

    They claim that issue X (Israel, or Feminism, etc) is their most important issue and reason for being. But that’s just a cover: their actions show that their most important issue is actually just “elect more democrats”. Even anti-Israel ones — or ones whose personal behavior shows a distinct lack of respect for women (ahem, Billy Jeff “put some ice on that” Clinton).

    And…now both groups show their stripes — pushed to open display by the same person. Sarah Palin: in the one case, NOW criticizes a woman who made it on her own, without their help and without the help of a politically-connected husband or father — and they demolish 40 years of their own rhetoric to claim that she really can’t be a good mother and VP. In the other case, an Evangelical who displays the flag of Israel in her office is disinvited from a demonstration against a murderous nutjub whose “Death To America” regime wants the bomb and is quite explicit about what they want it for.

    Sarah Palin: she who sends all Lefties into hypocritical paroxyms of rage. It’s a grand sight to see: whom the gods would destroy they first make mad. The Dems — and their allies — are going mad before our very eyes.

  • wtvvr88

    I am a member of the American Jewish Community and I can say very definitively that this is not an election where the percentages will be as overwhelmingly in favor of the Democratic nominee as they have in the past. Additionally, almost all American Jews who have any Jewish identity at all do vote with Israel’s fate in mind, and that is one of the reasons why many in the American Jewish Community are inclined to support and the religious (Orthodox) Jewish community very nearly qualifies as a pro-McCain “monolithic block” this election.

    In terms of the demonstration, the first ridiculous part of the whole fiasco occurred when Hilary pulled out due to Palin’s appearance since she felt it inappropriate-since when is it inappropriate for both a Republican and a Democrat to take the same stand on an issue? Evidently, party politics have seriously gotten out of control.
    I also consider it very immature of the liberal Jewish constituency helping organize the demonstration to apply so much pressure to pull Palin’s invitation so as to avoid it becoming a so-called “partisan event”. If they were so concerned, they should’ve directed their energy towards getting Hilary or Biden to commit to an appearance in order to make it bipartisan! But there is no question that they were following a model that she set.

    I personally don’t know any other American Jews who aren’t disgusted by this cowardice.

  • gensec

    maybe even in the wrong country. I would certainly like to see more Jews vote Republican, but it’s disgusting to tell Jews (or any other Americans) they should make amends for your hurt feelings by voting for someone other than who they believe is best for their country.

    If you want any American to vote for your preferred candidate, you have to convince them your candidate is better for America. If you fail at that, you can’t get someone to vote your way as “amends”, not even a Jew.

    If the American Jewish community holds any misperception, that we unsophisticated Christianists on the right haven’t noticed these snubs, let me dispel them. We have noticed, and (for me, at least), it’s really starting to rankle.

    I don’t like being taken advantage of. (I’ll explain why I feel that way in just a second).

    But, if you wish, there are some concrete things you can do to make amends for treating Governor Palin so rudely.

    Without ever meeting you, most Jews would still know with certainty that you possess exactly the right place to put your advice to them on making amends.

    I presume you were joking, referring to yourself as “Christianists”, but you might as well have been serious. If you object to what some Jewish organization did, take it up with that organization. But saying that you are owed amends by Jews collectively is as disgusting as saying I have a grievance with Italian Americans because of something the Mafia did.

    There is an ugly history of some “Christianists” holding Jews collectively responsible for some perceived transgression of particular Jews. Fortunately that’s ancient history for most of us Americans, but unfortunately a lot of Jews think that your mentality is common, or at least given respect, in the Republican party. I believe those Jews overestimate the significance of your fringe; but if your mentality holding Jews collectively responsible was in fact a serious part of the Republican party, that would be an excellent reason to vote Democratic (and not just Jewish voters).

    If you’re having difficulty understanding why Jewish Americans tend to vote Democratic, try looking in the mirror.

    IMO, the Second Gulf War—or, Operation Iraqi Freedom—is a fight that America is waging, in large part, because Israel exists, and because Americans will fight on its behalf.

    IMO, if Israel did not exist, George W. Bush could have found a way around the threat Saddam Hussein posed, short of open war. We could have used sanctions, bombing, etc…if we only needed to keep Hussein in his box.

    But, deep down, we knew that Hussein—Saddam, or Uday or Qusay—wouldn’t strike at America. They’d strike at Israel instead.

    Again IMO, because he was concerned for Israel’s safety, George W. Bush reasoned that the only option he really had to deal with Hussein was to remove him.

    Result: More than 4,000 American dead. And, many of those dead are drawn from the same conservative-leaning, Christian-heavy parts of American society that many American Jews seem eager to look down upon.

    Oh man, the Iraq war is a favor that Bush did for the Jews (for which Jews are ingrateful)?? President Bush supposedly knew that invading Iraq was not in America’s interest, but along with the “neocons” he does it anyway, sending young Christians to their death for Israeli interests? Ronulans couldn’t have said it better.

  • Rod_Patrick
    1. Obama and all his Arab friends. All American Arabs are rooting for Obama.

    2. McCain/Palin for United Israel.

    It is up now to the Jews who they gonna vote for in November.

    The policy divide is very clear.

  • gensec

    That way you’d be less likely to convince Jews to vote for Obama than your current condescension would.

  • Justin_Case

    was certainly a consideration when the decision was made to invade Iraq.

    However, in my mind, the security of the US was the primary reason for ending the regime of Saddam Hussein.

    A good case can be made that Israel, at present, represents our interests in the Middle East. Israel’s past and future (Iran) sacrifices outweigh any considerations as to how American Jews should cast their ballots.

    We are not owed anything.

  • smagar

    Oops

  • smagar

    I am a member of the American Jewish Community and I can say very definitively that this is not an election where the percentages will be as overwhelmingly in favor of the Democratic nominee as they have in the past.

    So…we Republicans should be grateful if we get a 60-40 split on the Jewish American vote this time around?

    We’ll see on Election Day, won’t we?

    Prove me wrong. Please. Flip Pennsylvania to John McCain. Toss Frank Lautenberg out of office. Make your statement THAT way.

    Additionally, almost all American Jews who have any Jewish identity at all do vote with Israel’s fate in mind

    Richard Baehr on (American Thinker) and Dennis Prager have acknowledged, regularly, that some American Jews aren’t that too concerned with Israel’s well-being.

    Needless to say, my diary is not directed at them. We can’t really fault them with being ungrateful for Republican/conservative support of Israel, if they don’t support Israel themselves.

    My diary is instead directed at that portion of the American Jewish community that calls for support for Israel, but then turns around and tells us they cannot vote for Republicans for a variety of reasons…their differences with us on social issues, the fact that everyone in their family has voted Democratic since FDR, etc…

  • smagar

    IMO this is a careless and emotionally overwrought reply by you to my points.

    I see that you don’t care for my opinion. And, given the tone in which you’ve responded, I’m confident I care little for yours either. But, in the interest of holding up my part of the discussion…

    1) I never said the American Jewish community owed me anything personally. I didn’t think I had to say that. (But then, it didn’t dawn on me that you would be reading my diary).

    I presumed it was clear to everyone on this site that I was objecting to the apparently-widescale indifference (and sometimes outright hostility) among Jewish-American voters to Republican candidates nationwide.

    (See the writings of Richard Baehr and Dennis Prager for evidence of the antipathy of many Jewish voters toward the GOP. See especially the end of paragaph 6 of the linked Baehr article, where he estimates a 75%-25% split amongst the Jewish vote in 2006… a split that favored Democrats, in an election that occurred three years after Hussein was felled from power)

    2)

    Without ever meeting you, most Jews would still know with certainty that you possess exactly the right place to put your advice to them on making amends

    Well pardner…here are my bona-fidees on that matter! I’m a lifelong Republican who can read post-election polls. Specifically, I can tell that, if 75% of the voters in a particular voting group vote routinely for the other side, then they’re not supporting MY side!

    3)

    But saying that you are owed amends by Jews collectively is as disgusting as saying I have a grievance with Italian Americans because of something the Mafia did.

    If you’re having difficulty understanding why Jewish Americans tend to vote Democratic, try looking in the mirror.

    gensec, you DO remember that Israel isn’t called the “one-bomb state” for nothing, right? And, that it’s surrounded on all sides by people that want to write it off the face of the map!

    Shouldn’t Israel—and its allies in America—be grateful for the supporters it DOES have?

    Oh…and you might want to lay off the Red Bull the next time you respond.

    4)

    Oh man, the Iraq war is a favor that Bush did for the Jews (for which Jews are ingrateful)?? President Bush supposedly knew that invading Iraq was not in America’s interest, but along with the “neocons” he does it anyway, sending young Christians to their death for Israeli interests? Ronulans couldn’t have said it better.

    Utterly unresponsive to the point I made—which was, President Bush must surely have known that America could not/should not ignore threats to Israel’s safety. Saddam Hussein could have threatened Israel’s safety daily with chemical-tipped SCUD missiles. (Or, do Israeli citizens have nerve and blood agent filters built into their resporatory systems these days?)

    As for invading Iraq “supposedly”—got a source for that?—”not being in America’s interest,” a peaceful Middle East is certainly in America’s interest. An aggressive Iraq, engaged in hostilities with an Israeli nation trying to defend itself, would NOT have been a peaceful Middle East, would it?

    Adios, gensec! Hasta luego!

  • 2006_personoftheyear

    So I don’t see why I should have to make amends over it.

    So, American Jewish community, if you really care about showing your gratitude to the American political party that is the least likely to leave Israel to the tender multilateral mercies of the United Nations, there are some things you can do:

    1) Flip a traditionally blue big state into the Republican column this year. How about Pennsylvania?

    I don’t feel a need to show my gratitude to either party, and I don’t think most other people do either…the parties work for my support, not the other way around. Even if I did, I don’t have the power to singlehandedly flip a major swing state…and it’s not like we Jews have big meetings where we all meet to decide how to act as one, big Jewish community. And even if we did that, even in PA we are 4% of the population.

    These are all things you can do. Or, you can blow us off again.

    Either way…we will notice.

    This sounds to me like mildly threatening language…what exactly are you saying?

  • streetwise

    We tend to have high expectations of Jews because of their intellectual tradition and phenomenal record of accomplishment in America. However, we are in an age where elite education is a barrier when it comes to understanding reality. So many Jews are going to have a problem.

    Still, when it comes to spectacular political courage, I can’t think of a better exemplar than Joe Lieberman.

  • Neil_Stevens
  • streetwise

    Irish running guns to the IRA, blacks cheering Rev. Wright and Anglos who thought that Pat Robertson could steer hurricanes away from Virginia.

    Stupidity is an equal opportunity employer.

  • smagar

    IIRC, it’s a country whose capitol city and major airport are within rocket range of people who very much want to see Israel disappear.

    Countries in that kind of geopolitical position, their citizens and their supporters should IMO be troubled when major organizations that claim to represent their interests (as, IIRC, the groups organizing tomorrow’s anti-Iran rally purport to be) snub allies.

    To make a few points crystal clear:

    1) I am a supporter of Israel. If necessary, I’d come out of retirement, put my uniform back on, and join American troops going over to defend it.
    2) I never, never said that we conservatives and Republicans should abandon Israel in a fit of pique because of how Jewish Americans vote in domestic elections.

    What I am saying is, that those American Democrats and Independents who love Israel—Jews and non-Jews, I should make clear—shouldn’t forget that people don’t like being snubbed, and that snubs like this take a long time to forget.

  • smagar

    I don’t disagree. There were many reasons for taking Hussein out.

    My point was, that Israel’s existence limited President Bush’s options for avoiding war in 2003.

    As long as a Hussein ruled Iraq, the Mideast was in threat of turmoil. A Mideast in turmoil would most likely draw the United States into it, some way.

    In 1991, Hussein proved that he was willing to squeeze on Israel anytime it suited him. Even if Israel hadn’t done anything. It was/is a target that an Arab nation can attack, without risking condemnation from the Arab world or (sadly) much of the rest of the world.

    Israel, if struck, will strike back.

    Put it together, and it equals a long-term potential for warfare. Warfare that the USA most likely could not turn its back on.

  • smagar

    But, IMO, these groups should consider it.

    National Coalition to Stop Iran Now,
    with the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations,
    Jewish Community Relations Council of New York, United Jewish Communities,
    UJA-Federation of New York, Jewish Council for Public Affairs.

    They’re the ones who did the disinviting. If you’re a key player in either of these organizations, 2006_personoftheyear, then yes, I am talking to you!

    This sounds to me like mildly threatening language

    If you want to feel threatened by it, be my guest.

    what exactly are you saying?

    By looking at any decent map of the Middle East, it’s obvious that Israel is small enough that its major cities and airports are within rocket range of people who hate it.

    IMO, any country in that kind of perilous geopolitical situation—and its citizens and supporters in other lands—shouldn’t casually insult any ally. Especially if that country doesn’t have many allies worldwide.

    NO ONE, certainly not me, is saying we should abandon Israel out of spite. That would be indecent, and (for the most part) we conservatives and Republicans are very decent people.

    It is human nature, though, to take offense at any snub or slight. Especially a snub as blatant as this one.

  • smagar

    The acronym would have been “ILDI,” for “Israel-Loving Democrats and Independents.”

    Yes, it’s a bit clumsy. But, the comments reveal that I’ve offended some people with the phrase “American Jewish community.”

    Any overarching term like that will naturally have exceptions to the rule.

    I’d assumed that it was evident that my diary didn’t refer to:
    a) Jewish-Americans who don’t care much about Israel. (Apparently they’re out there).
    b) Republican Jewish-Americans.

    My diary was targeted at those Jewish and (I should have made this clear, too) non-Jewish Democrats and Independents who support Israel, but never seem to get around to voting for Republicans at election time.

    If I had it to do over, the title would have been “If the ILDI Community Wants To Make Amends For the Palin Snub…”

    FWIW

  • 2006_personoftheyear

    “The Jewish Community” != any of these groups, and your title is “Memo to the American Jewish Community…” so as to imply that you are talking about the whole community. And you always refer to same. You might think of this as some sort of semantic distinction, but it is not…if you go back and change “American Jewish Community” to “certain Jewish groups” or whatever, it changes the meaning of what you are saying.

    I am surprised you did not actually say that it is not a threat. And you say “NO ONE, certainly not me, is saying we should abandon Israel out of spite,” but then go on to imply that maybe you will do something along those lines.

    In addition, remember that there is a difference between Jewish and Israeli – I am the former but not the latter.

    Most importantly…I never hear anyone saying such-and-such a group should be showing gratitude to either political party. I don’t see why Jews should show gratitude to one either. They are there to try and win my vote.

  • Justin_Case

    Israel did not strike back when attacked by Scud Missiles during the Gulf War in 1991. Had they done so, it would have destroyed the coalition of forces that Bush 41 had put together. This showed enormous restraint on Israel’s part.

    There have been other instances when Israel, faced with outside pressure, has shown good faith such as returning the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt and returning Gaza to the Palestinians.

    What you are forgetting is that there exists a large faction of Jews within Israel who believe much the same as those American Jews who don’t feel compelled to show their gratitude by voting Republican. But they, along with Jews from all over the world who emigrate to Israel, still put on the uniform and fight when the need arises.

    Years ago, in 1971, I was stuck in a huge traffic jam in Skokie, Illinois because of an Israel Bonds rally held in that town. To address your argument, I believe that it is safe to assume that a great many Jewish contributors at that time voted for George McGovern the following year. In other words, the people of Skokie felt that they took care of their own obligation by buying these bonds. In fact, the concept of Israel Bonds originated much earlier in history for the purpose of raising funds whenever the state of Israel faced hazardous times.

    I, too, wish that more American Jews would vote Republican, but to scold those who don’t wish to make “amends” in the way you see fit, is to deny that they may make contributions in support of Israel as they see fit.

    Strategically, I can’t think of an ally that is more important than Israel. Certainly Israel needs us but, as one hand washes the other, we need Israel also.

    Finally, I will say that you are one whose posts I read. I see you as one of the good guys on this forum. My responses to you are more a way of generating understanding than anything else.

  • rweiss2

    with quite a few things you’ve written here, both in your original post, and subsequent responses.

    For one, I wish you wouldn’t conceptualize us as one community that votes or does anything in a monolithic block. Despite whatever reports you may have read whether by Dennis Prager, or Stanford, we vote and do things as we believe them to accord with our individual or communal interests. If Jews are voting Democratic, they’re doing it to vote Democratic, not to snub you, I would think. Just because you believe the Republican Party’s position to be better for Jews or Israel, does not mean that Jews do. Much like you would not hold it against a gentile who votes Democratic for economic reasons – you wouldn’t castigate him for snubbing Republicans, the true friends of the American economy.

    Secondly, you’re conflation of the organizers if the Iran rally with some mythological Jewish community makes me nervous. I take it for granted that you know that the organizers of the rally by no means speak for Jews anywhere and that they certainly are not a representative council of any sort. I only mention it because many Jews are sensitive to conflations of this sort, of equating the actions of one group of politically active Jews with the actions and intentions of the rest of us, or believing that there is some council of Jews out there who speak for us. Historically, this has been a long time source of much antisemitism. (I don’t mean to accuse you of anything; I’m just pointing out how I and many Jews might read it.) In short, just because you interpret the actions of some community organizers to be rude to Sarah Palin does not mean the “American Jewish Community” has snubbed Sarah Palin, even in your view. (I for one, don’t interpret the disinvite as any more of a snub as that was issued to the other guest speakers who were disinvited, and to the uncomfortable position the rally organizers put Sen. Clinton in, when they invited the Republican nominee for Vice President to speak at a non-Partisan event.)

    I also find disturbing your equation of Israel with Jews. Needless to say, we are not the same, even if Israel is our ethnic and religious homeland.

    Another conflation I take issue with is your conflation of America and the Republican Party. Even by snubbing Sarah Palin, we have not snubbed America. There is legitimate reason to think that a Democratic Administration would be just as beneficial, if not more, than its Republican counterpart. While the overall benefits of the Iraqi War to Israelis and to Jews worldwide is endlessly debatable, I’d remind you that most Democrats in Congress were equally culpable or creditable, (as political affiliation will dictate) as their Republican opposites in agreeing to the invasion. As well, a Democrat was the first to recognize Israel (Truman) and the first to oversee a comprehensive peace agreement with an Arab country (Carter with Egypt) and in in the Palestinian question (Clinton) ultimate failure that that may have been. As you no doubt realize, who is considered “good for Israel” is debatable, depending largely on what you consider to be good policy for Israel. I’ve got to tell you, though, that lecturing Jews on whose ass they should start kissing if they know what’s good for ‘em is kind of offensive.

    As such, forgive us if we feel no need to tip elections for you in your favour (another thing we don’t do, along with controlling the media, banking, and the frozen concentrated orange juice markets, by the way) so as to make it up to the injured feelings of right wingers who believe they should monopolize our affections. Although I can’t speak for all of us, I assume we don’t appreciate your ominous warnings and threats to that effect.

    Please next time, be a bit more considerate in your criticisms.

    Respectfully yours