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Government Health Care Is Not About Health Care; It’s About Government

“Government Health Care is not about health care; It’s about Government.” So reads the last line of Mark Steyn’s latest brilliant article, which I strongly suggest that everyone read. He’s right, of course, but I’d go even a step further. It’s not just about government, it’s about a mindset and a freedom-squashed way of life. Once the government becomes more than just a safety net, becomes instead a catch-all stifling protective bubble, it kills freedom and the individual. At it’s core, freedom is meant to be risky. It isn’t safe; it’s just free.

Health care control is how the left intends to achieve their ultimate goals. They looked to Britain, for example, and saw that government health care was the key to total control. Make everything “for the common good”. Protect people from everything, even from themselves and you make them so dependent upon you that they will bend to your every will and you can further your agenda with little resistance.  This is difficult, if not impossible, to change once the mindset is ingrained. Elections alone won’t do it. Steyn points that out here:

Once the state swells to a certain size, the people available to fill the ever-expanding number of government jobs will be statists – sometimes hard-core Marxist statists, sometimes social-engineering multiculti statists, sometimes fluffily “compassionate” statists, but always statists. The short history of the post-war welfare state is that you don’t need a president-for-life if you’ve got a bureaucracy-for-life: The people can elect “conservatives,” as the Germans have done and the British are about to do, and the Left is mostly relaxed about it because, in all but exceptional cases (Thatcher), they fulfill the same function in the system as the first-year boys at wintry English boarding schools who, for tuppence-ha’penny or some such, would agree to go and warm the seat in the unheated lavatories until the prefects strolled in and took their rightful place.

Republicans are good at keeping the seat warm. A bigtime GOP consultant was on TV, crowing that Republicans wanted the Dems to pass Obamacare because it’s so unpopular it will guarantee a GOP sweep in November.

OK, then what? You’ll roll it back – like you’ve rolled back all those other unsustainable entitlements premised on cobwebbed actuarial tables from 80 years ago? Like you’ve undone the federal Department of Education and of Energy and all the other nickel’n'dime novelties of even a universally reviled one-term loser like Jimmy Carter?

This is why Erick Erickson is correct when he calls Democrats, willing to throw themselves on the proverbial grenade by voting for the health care bill, “health care suicide bombers.” It’s accurate because, to them, it isn’t about health care itself; it’s about ideology and statist utopian dreams. Hopeandchange ™ sounded pretty and all, but it was really about fundamental change of our entire Country and the principles upon which it was founded. Once socialized medicine is in place, the fundamental change will occur and, as Steyn pointed out above, it will be next to impossible to roll-back. Remember, it took decades to merely reform welfare a tiny bit and even that didn’t really stick. The entitlement mentality was already starting to reign King. Add health care to that mix, and it becomes despotic.

Steyn explains that further here:

Look at it from the Dems’ point of view. You pass Obamacare. You lose the 2010 election, which gives the GOP co-ownership of an awkward couple of years. And you come back in 2012 to find your health care apparatus is still in place, a fetid behemoth of toxic pustules oozing all over the basement, and, simply through the natural processes of government, already bigger and more expensive and more bureaucratic than it was when you passed it two years earlier. That’s a huge prize, and well worth a midterm timeout.

I’ve been bandying comparisons with Britain and France, but that hardly begins to convey the scale of it. Obamacare represents the government annexation of “one-sixth of the U.S. economy” – i.e., the equivalent of the entire British or French economy, or the entire Indian economy twice over. Nobody has ever attempted this level of centralized planning for an advanced society of 300 million people. Even the control-freaks of the European Union have never tried to impose a unitary “comprehensive” health care system from Galway to Greece. The Soviet Union did, of course, and we know how that worked out.

It’s worth it to them. And we need only look to Britain to see the dire consequences if it occurs. It wasn’t even so much the Socialized medicine itself, but rather the way it insidiously set in place a total mindset. Health care was the cornerstone in changing an entire way of life; of making people completely and utterly dependent, even for their lives, upon Big Daddy Government. It is pervasive and takes over every aspect of life; a life that is no longer truly free. It’s that actual mindset that we *must* beat and socialized medicine is the way they are seeking to cement it. For them, in order to seal the statist deal, they need to squash the individual and control behavior. Health care is the means to that end; it’s for “the common good.”

While it’s hard to repeal or change laws, as we well know, it is near impossible to change such a pervasive mindset. This is made harder by the fact that the entitlement mentality mindset has been working it’s way into our culture for decades, aided by the Press and our education system. Right now, we are at the precipice, but have been maintaining our footing somewhat. But, socialized medicine, I fear, would push us off that edge. I’ve seen it first-hand, or, rather second-hand. My entire family on my Mom’s side lives in Scotland. They all now honestly believe that the government is meant to provide all and take care of everything. For the common good and all. Notice, it’s never for the individual’s good, but only for the “collective” good. An important distinction if there ever was one.

What has happened here in America is something that De Tocqueville foresaw when he said “Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.” You see, people have forgotten or they choose to forget, that equal opportunity does not magically guarantee effortless equal results. Nor is it meant to. Our republic was built as a testament to the human condition of free will. It allows for unlimited success and, with that, sometimes comes failure. That, taking risks, is the mother of invention and what has made us what we are today.

The modern day Progressive seeks to inhibit that. While they claim to be oh-so-tolerant and open-minded and while they profess the freedom of individuality mantra, they are actually the ones who seek to silence any thought and opinions that differ from their own tunnel-visioned view of the World. With all their talk of enlightenment and evolution, they are literally De-volving and are actually moving against basic, innate human nature and what used to be a penchant to strive for success. They symbolize the antithesis of that. In diametric opposition to natural instinct, they seek to turn individual success and enterprise into a punishment. Into a failure.  They seek to turn the individual into a part of a mediocre pack. They hope to turn us into their Useful Idiots by seizing final control in a way that will not just be a slippery slope, but a patch of black ice leading to the curtailing of almost all of our individual liberties.

The health care bill must die now. We can’t chance that anyone will have the fortitude or the ability to repeal it once it is in place. It will be too late. If we don’t, the once Shining City on the Hill will, tragically, lose its luster when it becomes the “Government approved Shine” only. We must ensure that The Shining City on the Hill will remain full of luster and not be irrevocably tarnished by a Government willing to suppress the rights of its people.

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COMMENTS

  • msctex

    Not sure I buy into the “impossible to undo” assumption, which seems to be evolving into tacit fact. It would be difficult, surely, but just as buildings can be bulldozed, money routed one way can be re-routed another, and people working for the Government can, frankly, be not working for the Government anymore. And yes, I grant and concede the insidious nature of the attempt. But simply put, this ain’t England. Between the Bill of Rights and the very concept of Federalism, there are roadblocks in place that the Progressives simply refuse to acknowledge.

    Also: NEVER underestimate these people’s ability to self-destruct. Their denial of Reality always catches up in the end.

    • barry915barry

      Well please then, msctex, enlighten us as to all of the entitlement programs enacted (by congress) that HAVE been repealed?? I agree with Lori: “The health care bill must die now. … or …It will be too late.”

      Barry

    • Vegas_Rick

      Regale us with your examples of rolled back entitlement programs.

      Or shut up.

      • Bill

        It won’t happen. Stop it now or its over!

    • avgjo

      I appreciate your more optimistic outlook.

      I am sorry that some people jumped on you the way they did. And I am not referring to honest disagreements.

      Ya know, I think a lot of those who push this ‘impossible to undo’ meme are projecting; either they are projecting that they will jump on the program that they claim to hate so much, or they are projecting their laziness or they are projecting their cowardice (the last in the case of our elected ‘representatives’.)

      I actually spend a lot of time talking to people in the physical world, and many don’t understand this idea. Of course, most bloggers and internet posters simply regurgitate what radio hosts and pundits say. Radio hosts and pundits, as much as I respect some, are members of the political class. And many of us are well aware of the disconnect between that segment of society and the rest of the country.

      If these people were half as serious about dealing with the libs as they claim, they would, among other things, put together a national campaign, a la Soros. They would find electable candidates in every district and run them, candidates who would be beholden to us, just as the libs did with the ‘blue dogs’. They would get involved in the precinct commiteeman project as several here promote. They would start their own secretary of state program, as Soros did, for us it would be to combat electoral fraud. They would find a
      charismatic ideologue who would ram thru entitlement cuts and laws making the future funding of such programs near impossible, our version of Obama. They would astroturf if necessary, which probably wouldn’t be, because we are indeed the majority. (And don’t give me any platitudes about how bad astroturfing is. If you haven’t noticed, we are in a battle for the survival of the Founders’ America.) One guy (Soros) did all that. Imagine what 100,000 committed patriots could do!

      Most important of all, they would hold their own representatives’ feet to the fire and MAKE them roll this nonsense back. If they put the same effort into this that many did in the townhalls and calilng the dems, the Republicans would be scared into rolling back this nonsense. For that matter, if they put half the effort they put into hand-wringing and crying about the end of America into pressuring the Republicans to roll this nonsense back, we’d be fine.

      One guy put up a comment on a website I read, saying something like how many people he met talking about the ‘coming war’ and how they were ready to die for freedom; when he told them that wasn’t necessary, just get involved in XYZ activism, these heroes had a million excuses why they couldn’t do it.

      so many of these hand wringers fancy themselves involved in a second American revolution, bold epithets and graphics and quoting the Founders and all. I think it was Valley Forge where real patriots walked 9 miles in the snow, most without shoes. These people seem to think they are of the same stock as these guys and yet they will give up if Obamacare passes. I sure would not have wanted to be stuck with them at Valley Forge.

      Of course people will take something ‘free’. But they will also act in their self-interest. If it is made clear that the country will fail without getting rid of the entitlements, a majority of Americans would go with a hard program to get rid of entitlements. I read a poll where Americans were more likely to believe in UFOs than to believe that they would get Social Security when they retired. And THIS is a third rail?

      This may well get me thrown off, and that’s cool. If this is offensive I can’t help it.

      I direct these comments at no one in particular. If you get offended, ask yourself if the shoe fits. For those willing to do more than cry, whine and wring their hands, get out there and change America!

      • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

        Far from wanting to throw you off, I’d like to see a cheer the troops comment like this as a diary!

    • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

      First (and possibly last) comment from you…
      It has to be stopped now. Unions are already delaying contract agreements pending the ObamaCare passage so that current plans can be bargained away for more pay, and more union dues. Once that is locked in, to reverse ObamaCare would leave union members without coverage (I know…wahhh), and angry at Republicans. I’m not talking about the union hacks and organizers, I’m referring to the rank and file folks. The ones we currently have some chance of swaying to the GOP. Believe it or not, most union people are conservatives-just don’t realize it.
      Unions are just one example of how the left is moving to lock ‘BamaCare in forever.
      For the rest of us, when the evil “Big Insurance” companies go under (and they will, very quickly I’m thinking), who will be able to replace them afterward? Remember it could take a couple years to roll it back.
      As far as our constitutional roadblocks, how hard has it been so far for the left to push an agenda via the courts? You are correct, the left does refuse to acknowledge the roadblocks because they’ve engineered ways under, around, or through most of them.
      This is political Armageddon, the ultimate battle of good and evil (if our Constitution is good and socialist/communist revision of our fundamentals equals evil). All or nothing.
      It has to be stopped, now, and at all costs.

      • http://snarkandboobs.wordpress.com/ Lori Ziganto

        msctex. But, Erick’s response was nicely put and accurate. For a myriad of reasons, some of which Erick detailed well, this very well could be *near* impossible to get rid of if passed.

        It *must* be stopped. Now.

    • patriotrx

      I agree that it will be difficult, and have an air of impossibility, to repeal Obamacare if enacted. However, I just read an excellent article over at The American Spectator regarding Obamacare being the new Prohibition if passed.

      When people compare Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. to Obamacare, they are forgetting that Obamacare will touch everyone’s lives in an immediate way that the aforementioned entitlement programs never have.

      We can largely feel indifferent about most entitlement programs because they only affect our wallets (i.e. taxes). However, Obamacare will affect more than our wallets. It will have the same sort of unintended consequences that Prohibition had (Really Bad Ones), and those consequences will touch each of us in a VERY personal way. The moment a current Obamacare supporter is negatively affected by this new entitlement program, the push for real nullification will begin just as it did for Prohibition. And they WILL be negatively affected.

      The United States never has been, nor will it ever be, Europe 2.0. Americans, by and large, will nullify this abomination of a bill the moment it begins to personally affect them and their communities (inner city communities excluded). That is why the taxing portion of the bill begins immediately while the benefits (aka side effects) start many years later.

      Having said that, I really don’t understand why some people jumped on msctex for believing that Obamacare can be undone. There is very little in life that is impossible.

    • rightwingmom52

      and think about how complacent you are at the government taking your money. We’ve gotten so used to it that we’re resigned to believing Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid can’t be undone. While it’s possible Obamacare could be undone, I don’t want to suffer through the process. Better to kill the snake than risk getting bit and suffer the effects of the poison or antivenom even if you live through it.

  • arthurmachado

    Obama is saying anyone who voted for healthcare in November and December is going to be lambasted by us (the GOP) no matter how they vote now. So here is my idea for a pledge:

    From the RNC, RSCC, RCCC to House and Senate Democrats: The Republican Party believes Obamacare is a tragic mistake for the Country. We also believe defeating this bill is more important than any one political party and its defeat is the first step in moving our country to fiscal sanity. Therefore, we pledge to act as follows in the case of any Democrat who votes against Obamacare resutling in the defeat of the various Obamacare bills:

    1. Prior to the 2010 elections we, the RNC, RSCC, and the RCCC, will not air any advertisement of any kind accusing any Democrat who voted for Obamacare in the past and votes against it now as flip flopping,

    2. Prior to the 2010 elections we, the RNC, RSCC, and the RCCC will not air any negative advertisement of any kind about healthcare or healthcare flip flopping related to a Democrat who votes against Obamacare now resulting in its defeat.

    3. Prior to the 2010 elections we, the RNC, RSCC, and the RCCC, will request any candidate running against a Democrat refrain from criticizing a Democrat’s prior position on Obamacare for any Democrat who votes no on Obamacare resulting in its defeat.

    4. In the event a Republican candidate chooses, prior to the 2010 elections, to ignore our request to refrain from criticizing a no voting Democrat on healthcare or healthcare flip flopping we will provide to the Democratic candidate a donation equal to the costs of the critical advertisement to allow the Democrat candidate to purchase rebuttal advertisement or use the funds as he or she sees fit.

    Signed,

    Michael Steel
    Mitch McConnell
    anyone else they can get to sign it. Ideally, every single Republican house or senate candidate should sign here.

  • stigmo

    The U.S. economy has been the motor that has fueled the European Nanny State. When health care and the rest of these crazy policies cripple the U.S. economy, who will pick up the slack? There won’t be anybody there.

  • ColoKid

    that the whole healhcare plan, even if enacted, will never come to pass, simply because there will be no money for it. They’ll collect taxes for four years before implementing it. Well, MAYBE they’ll collect the taxes. If the economy gets as bad as I think it will get between now and then, there aint gonna be enough money for nothin’ nohow except unemployment benefits, the interest on the national debt and congressional pay raises!

    • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

      They just keep nationizing industries and confiscatory taxes and when the economy irreversibly collapses, they rule by force. End result varies, but the rulers always end up stealing enough money or commandeering enough supplies (often times selling energy resources to foreign powers for cash) to keep themselves and their supporters satisfied while they oppress the rest of the country, who live in deteriorating squalor and deepening despair.

  • 10ksnooker

    “Consent of the Governed” … Our Constitution was setup to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. It had best be lived up to, as the polls are now slipping precipitously towards the federal government is out to get the people.

    Everyone is beginning to feel it, and knows it’s not right.

    Read what the Declaration of Independence had to say about exactly this.

    • Bill

      The communists, socialists, liberal, progressives think that the Constitution is archaine and just a bunch of “negative rights” that are no longer relevant and should be replaced. Don’t you listen to “The One” and his disciples? I know what the Declaration of Independence had to say, what are you ready to give up to save our Constitution and the country? I think we all need to ask ourselves that question and then decide to act!

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    This is classic Cloward-Piven. Get a benign-sounding entitlement started and then blow the doors off the fisc by putting every person who could ever possibly collect enrolled….

    The Founding Fathers muttered something about us being dead when we discovered we could vote ourselves rich….

  • moderatelymod

    years from now, it won’t matter. Government will never be able to afford to take care of the healthcare of its citizens. Then, people will have to be responsible for their own insurance and their own healthcare costs, as it should be. Not even the elderly should expect a government safety net. Sounds cruel, but society must have winners and losers.

    • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

      Bye, bludogg!

  • http://www.AmericanThinker.com Hammer2008

    Perhaps it’s time to punt partisan Pelosi from the Speakership? I mean, why wait for mid-term elections?

    I was driving home from work today and thought that Nancy Pelosi has become such an embarrassment, even to her own party, I wondered aloud if she could effectively be voted out from the House Speaker position (*after all, she ain’t my Speaker). Take her gavel away, but how?

    I found a few answers in my cursory web search. I cannot vouch as of yet for them, but if the last paragraph of this bears true, I am sure there’s a few congressmen that would delight in even making the attempt, if to do nothing more than draw attention in a Senator Bunning-esque sort of fashion.

    …”In short, the rules of the US House of Representative for the 110th Congress provides for the removal of a seated Speaker, during session, for the purposes of preserving the

  • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

    Via PA at AoSHQ;

    We can’t let this camel get its nose in the tent, because apparently there’s a full size camel hiding in back of that nose.

    Everyone knows Democrats are planning to use the budget reconciliation process to get ObamaCare through the Senate. Less well known is that Democrats are plotting add-ons to that bill to get other liberal priorities enacted

  • http://www.voteforteri2010.com teridavisnewman

    We all know that the Obama administration is trying to ram government health care down our throats and is planning to use the rate increases applied for by Blue Cross/Anthem in California to justify their position that government control is needed. This is untrue for several reasons, but the rate increase asked for in California is largely due to having to shift the cost of health care for illegal immigrants to people who DO have insurance.

    Very few people have an understanding of how insurance companies work. Theoretically there are

  • http://www.voteforteri2010.com teridavisnewman

    http://www.opencongress.org/people/voting_history/412299_Eric_Massa?q=h.r.3590&submit.x=34&submit.y=12&submit=Search

    Eric Massa voted FOR the health care bill on November 7th 2009!!

  • olddog

    the progressives getting their hands on the throats of every freedom loving American. they will control every aspect of your life, you see it now, from less cancer screenings, to the food we eat, to fertility drugs in various vaccinations they gave in Africa to lower population, Gates and Zoros and other very rich, had secret meetings to discuss how to keep the world population, below a certain level. these self ordained elitist, progressives., know what is best for us, the great unwashed, who are so stupid, they need to take care of us for our own good. there is a lot more at stake here than just being a socialist nation they will shred every Constitutional right we have, unless the people wake up and stand up, and let them know we are first and foremost free Americans. this has been going on far too long, in my lifetime.
    I will not have this serfdom imposed on my grand kids, how about you?
    Support Our Troops!
    One Old Dog

  • msctex

    My initial post seems to have brought out a vehement response in some, which I only find comforting. Believe me, I’m right there in the foxhole with you when it comes to acknowledging the purely destructive nature and intent of our current “leadership.” But that said, I stand by my opinion that we as Conservatives sometimes attribute the better aspects of our own fundamental nature to the opposition — if not to our own detriment, at least to an unnecessary cost to our own collective blood pressure. Fact: history proves once Entitlements are in place they tend to stay that way. But this situation is different: previous examples are the equivalent of putting bad oil in the engine, while feathering the nests of various Democratic causes. Health Care, as Steyn so cogently notes, is an entirely different matter. It will prove the equivalent of putting water in the gas tank, and cannot be explained away or ignored when things sputter to an absolute halt. And as an above poster noted, it is also to put water in the gas tank of the engine which provides momentum for the entire world. But again as I said, we can make the mistake of ascribing our own most basic assumptions to people who have been educated to believe their goal is worth any moral or ethical transgression. They are not bound by Truth, Reality or even Possibility. Thus they will fail. What they see as empowering, Alinsy-esque strength is in practice a tremendous weakness, which tends to end in farcical disaster. But that does not mean we should stop screaming at the top of our lungs.

  • jonthedog

    I’m from the UK, and yes, I’m indeed a statist drone, overwhelmed with gratitude at the benevolence of my government for giving me free health care. So what? Despite the flaws in our National Health Service, it is still twice as cost effective as yours at delivering the same results. You are burying your heads in the sand if you think you can go on the way you are…why are you effectively subsidising the rest of the world by paying far more than you should to middle-man health insurance companies and big Pharma? Why shouldn’t the government by the people and of the people buy in bulk ‘for of the people’? Your empty arguments that this somehow decreases your freedom speak nothing of what solutions you have…only irrational fear of the unknown.

    • Trelaina

      but the bill being proposed right now is NOT a health care bill and will make any problems we have worse, not better.

      There are other proposals out there….proposals that are small steps and tackle the biggest flaws in the system, such as the restriction that I cannot purchase insurance outside my State. You are listening to the parrot media who are saying “the opposition doesn’t have a plan” despite the fact that it’s been out there for public viewing for months.

      Oh, and you may be used to the nanny state, but most of us here don’t want the government buying ANYTHING for us, thank you very much.

      • jonthedog

        I think you guys are in a state of denial about how bad your health care system is at the moment. You spend around $7300 pp, double what almost every other country in the developed world spends (UK is around $3000pp), yet your life expectancy is worse than pretty much every other developed country and quite a few developing ones: look at this chart on the National Geographic site if you don’t believe me:
        http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/12/the-cost-of-care.html

        Tinkering around the edges ain’t going to do it. I like the idea of opening up interstate insurance, but won’t that effectively remove the power of individual states to stipulate what should be covered and automatically lead to a ‘race to the bottom’ where all the insurers just set up in the states where the regulations are the most lax? Whilst it does indeed have the potential to lower premiums, it could also massively exacurbate the problem of people being underinsured as they snap up the cheapest provider.
        Whilst you might not trust your government to run anything, it is not possible for them to do it any worse than at the moment. Almost evey other developed country does trust their government to run their health care for them, and every developed country gets twice as much ‘bang for their buck’ as you do. Why do you trust Health Insurance and Pharmacutical companies whose sole stated motivation is the bottom line and proft for themselves with your health above the government allegedly ‘for the people’?

        The deal you have on the table is nothing even close to socialized health care, and yet it is being labeled communism…I would suggest your country is being paralysed by fear whilst the pharma companies are laughing all the way to the bank.

        • redneck_hippie

          Life expectancy talking point doesn’t take cause of death into consideration. Ever hear about a couple of wars we are fighting, the fact that Americans probably spend more time in their cars than any other nation, that American cities are extremely prone to violence?

          If by some twist of the devil’s malice (or Pelosi’s treason) this monstrosity passes, wait a few decades and see what medical innovation looks like. And where will the premiers of provinces in Canada go for their life-saving surgeries?

          If Obamacare is so wonderful, why must I purchase it or be fined or go to jail? Insurance companies average approximately 3% in profit. Pharmaceuticals much much more because their risk to develop their inventions is much much higher.

          Statist drones will never be happy until there is equal misery the planet over. Time will tell whether they get their wishes.

          • jonthedog

            Fair point about the life expectancy stat, but the US infant mortality rate is nothing to write home about either (which somewhat skews your life expectancy). The fact is, you spend about twice what everyone else does for much the same effect. You have already socialized the most expensive part of medicine, the care of the elderly, with medicare, leaving insurance companies to cherry pick from the people who need health care the least.
            Big Pharma will charge what they can get away with, which is considerably more in the fractured US system than anywhere else. The low health insurance company profits are an indication that perhaps premiums wouldn’t fall that much even if you could buy insurance out of state.
            I don’t know why you think being able to walk into any hospital or surgery in my country and not have to worry about filling in any forms or whether my insurance will cover it or not would in any way make me, or the rest of the world, miserable? Far from it; it makes me free.

          • redneck_hippie

            is higher because in the US we count all deaths of infants. Other parts of the world try to make their stats look better by only counting the deaths occurring after a certain age. So that talking point is bogus as well.

            Congressional Budget Office has already reviewed Obamacare and it will cause premiums to increase. There are very good reasons why people have rejected Obamacare.

            The Republicans have excellent ideas to reform health care without a government takeover of 1/6 of our economy, which is equivalent to the entire economy of certain European countries.

            Enjoy your freedom. Most of us over on this side of the pond aren’t interested in cradle to grave socialism. Funny thing that, being a 13th generation American I relate to my forbears who said that the English class system wasn’t very nice and started the Massachusetts Bay Colony, settled the Old Northwest and one of them followed a covered wagon on foot to Kansas in the 19th century. They were artisans, ministers, mariners, farmers, and one of my great-great-great…uncles was a muleskinner who wrote Commerce of the Prairies, a history of the Santa Fe Trail. This land if immigrants is the greatest nation on Earth and we don’t take kindly to that Marxist European clap trap.

          • jonthedog

            Really, every one of the 28 countries you rank behind counts infant mortality differently to you? If you can’t even admit you have a problem, then God help you.
            I’m not quite sure of the relevance of what your ancestors did to anything. My ancestors fled central Europe for the US back in the 1600s, etc, etc, and by quirk of fate my father married an English woman. Really don’t see what that has to do with health care.
            There is no difference in paying a health insurance company for health insurance and paying your government for health insurance, except that at least your governement has your health as its primary consideration. It most definate isn’t Marxism, not even close, but it is being portrayed as such to trigger McCarthyesque knee jerk reactions amongst Americans who have been brought up to think that socalism = bad.

          • redneck_hippie

            We don’t want it. I was trying to demonstrate my belief system (pilgrim fathers, founding fathers, pioneer fathers etc.) I thought it explained my mindset, in re individual freedom and personal responsibility. You obviously will never get it

            Your tired talking points are more than laughable. Obamacare is going down in flames for the reason that Americans are strongly opposed to it.

            If our citizen of the world historic president can’t talk America into wanting Obamacare, then what on earth makes you think you can?

  • mbecker908

    We’ve watched as the US Department of Education basically took over education. What we get is vastly increased costs and kids with HS diplomas who can’t read or make change and don’t have a clue which century the Civil War was fought or why. Then there’s Amtrack and every new light rail system in the country.

    I could go on, but I don’t have the interest. We’ve seen what happens when government gets involved in running what should be a private sector issue, whether it’s education, railroads, individual retirement or medical care – and I include medicare in that – the cost increases exponentially and the service and quality go to hell in a handcart.

    And yes, you are a statist drone. Feel free to back to the Islamic Republic of Britain.

    • mbecker908