Who played the race card? Rasmussen finds that Obama did

"Dollar bill" line about race, while Brittany ad not

By: Soren Dayton (Diary) | August 3rd, 2008 at 09:30 AM |

RESIZE: AAA

Rasmussen actually asked people:

As for Obama’s comment, 53% of white voters saw it as racist, as did 44% of African-Americans and 61% of all other voters.

So who was racist?

Unaffiliated voters, by a five-to-one margin, said the McCain ad was not racist. By a much narrower 50% to 38% margin, unaffiliateds viewed Obama’s comment as racist.

Perhaps the press and the lunatic lefty bloggers will stop now. They are knifing their own candidate by screaming about this.

Tags: Barack Obama, Brittany Spears, Dollar Bill, John McCain, racism

COMMENTS

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Jason_Wolf

…but you have to wonder how many of the poll respondents were aware that McCain actually made an ad with Obama’s face on currency in June. I think Obama made a mistake in thinking that people were aware of that ad.

And the band played on…

KarlLiebknecht
Just because something wins in a poll doesn’t mean it’s right. Here’s what happened…
1. McCain has so far run a campaign centered around the narrative that he is a TRUE American and Obama is…a bit less than American. Other, vaguely foreign. What is that but a race issue…
2. Then, he creates a narrative about how Barack is “uppity,” too big for his breeches. When have we ever heard of a presidential candidate being hammered for being overconfident? Never before. If a white man is confident, he is just self-assured. If a black man is confident, he is “uppity”…
3. Finally, McCain releases an ad juxtaposing Obama with Paris Hilton and B. Spears, young white women with a reputation for sexual scandals. We’ve seen this kind of subtle messaging with black male candidates before – casting them as oversexualized and tapping into racialized fantasies involving black men and white women.
AND, AFTER ALL OF THIS…AFTER ALL OF THIS…When Obama says in a speech that McCain is attacking him because he doesn’t “look like” traditional candidates, McCain starts waving his hands in the hair and screaming “Race Card! Race Card! Race Card!”

Only in America.

Mord

Breathtakingly arrogant is more like it.

Wubbies_World

… put forth a good set of talking points. However, as this poll shows, the American people are not buying it. Neither am I.

The old adage about repeating a lie often enough will make it into a fact only applies if people were not paying attention to begin with. I don’t think this is one of those times.

Sorry about that.

Adam_C

1) “McCain has so far run a campaign centered around the narrative that he is a TRUE American and Obama is…a bit less than American.”

Like what? McCain has pointed out that Obama was wrong on the surge, won’t admit he was wrong, and wants to lead our troops. He’s pointed out that Obama decided to go to Europe and rally foreigners as part of his campaign.

Where did McCain say Obama is “a bit less than American.” I want a link or evidence of this?

2) Show me one time the McCain campaign has used the word “uppity.” They have mocked Obama for being famous for being famous. They are drawing a distinction between someone who has accomplishments and someone whose biggest accomplishment is giving a good speech at a political rally. Arrogant, sure. Uppity, I want evidence.

3) Well the poll above seems to show that the vast majority of Americans don’t think showing black men and white women in the same ad is inherently racist. If he had used black women, do you think the ad would have been just fine? What about Hispanic women?

Just because you find racism in everything doesn’t mean most people do. And those of us working toward a colorblind America don’t think like you. And fortunately, most people want a colorblind America not a color-obsessed one.

Finally, McCain has not attacked him for “looking different.” If he has, please provide a link. He’s attacked him for inexperience, acting entitled, being arrogant, lack of judgment, lack of accomplishments, and misleading rhetoric. But he has not attacked him for “looking different.” In fact, he has gone out of his way not to do so. He even stays away from the Jeremiah Wright stuff because it is a borderline race issues despite all the Anti-American drivel involved and the lack of judgment Obama showed in taking his children to such a church.
janis

because anyone who disses America to a foreign audience in order to score cheap points (and failed, I might point out) is not worthy of the identity as “American.”
Has nothing at all to do with his race as John Kerry was no true American in that sense either and that man is as white as mayonnaise. Well, less the spray on orangey tan.

“Uppity”? Project much? No one called him uppity, but lots of folks have called him arrogant, narcissistic, and way too confident of his non-credentials as a leader.

As to the ad with Paris and Brittany, the point was that their credentials for being a celebrity are just as nonexistent as Obama’s—it’s much ado about nothing BUT celebrity.

But, hey, if you want to keep supporting someone with no principles, no achievements, and no real love for this country, that’s your deal. Rock on.
ZootSuit

… allow me to ask, what in the world are you talking about:

First, please point to one campaign ad or comment he has made where McCain has argued that he is the American in the race and Obama is not. Quite the contrary, McCain has run a commendably non-racial campaign, and has gone out of his way to commend Obama many times. Consider, for example, McCain comments about Obama at the NAACP Convention last month.

Perhaps you are confusing the McCain campaign with the Hillary Clinton’s.

Second, no one has called Obama “uppity.” Again, please provide an example.

Arrogant, yes, but if you are going to accuse anyone for calling Obama arrogant, again, please start with the Democrats like Hillary Clinton.

Third, this accusation against McCain is so stupid it’s laughable. As a friend and family member of many liberal African-Americans, I can honestly say that it seems to me that the only people really upset about a supposed sexual context underlying the McCain ad are silly White liberals. Even those of my Black liberal friends who think that McCain’s ad is “negative” are laughing about the so-called sexual context of it.

Quite frankly, it seems that White liberals — far more than either White conservatives or Blacks of whatever political persuasion — are the ones who are obsessed with the idea of miscengenation or interracial relationships.
KarlLiebknecht
1. McCain has said…”I am the American president Americans have been waiting for.”
He has said that Obama would rather lose a war and win an election than win in Iraq, in effect accusing a sitting senator of treason.

He has accused Obama of not visiting soldiers because he couldn’t bring cameras with him, even though this has been widely disproven.

What is all of this but, as I said, defining Obama as “other,” “different,” “not one of us.”
1. I never said that the McCain camp called Obama “uppity.” What they have done is, for the first time in electoral history attacked an opponent for being overconfident, thinking he is the messiah (See McCain’s latest ad). Again, a white man would never be accused of being overconfident…A black man doesn’t know his place…
2. In any event, these personal attacks at beneath John McCain, who once was an honorable man. And these kind of rhetorical games, moreover, are hurting America. We need good, honest debate about the issues – the mortgage crisis, immigration, taxes, the war. Whether you are Republican or Democrat you can surely agree to this. Elections should not be a bloodsport, but a serious conversation about ideas. America needs to escape the “spin zone” and get serious.
NightTwister

Quite frankly, it seems that White liberals — far more than either White conservatives or Blacks of whatever political persuasion — are the ones who are obsessed with the idea of miscengenation or interracial relationships.
janis

McCain never said the quote you attributed to him. It comes from Obama’s speech where he said “We are the ones we have been waiting for.” Whatever that is supposed to mean.

As to what McCain said about Obama being willing to lose a war to win high office, he’s dead on the money. What else could you deduce from someone who refuses to admit his judgement was wrong on something like the surge, even AFTER ADMITTING IT HAD WORKED.
BrianH

I’ve never seen a conservative say things like “A black man doesn’t know his place.”

As for the rather win a campaign that the war charge, it was based on Obama saying that it didn’t matter if the surge was successful, he’d still be against it because of political considerations.

Now if you want to argue ideology, please explain why Obama’s push for more government control over every aspect of your life is better than simple personal freedom…..
Mord

The problem is, Obama refuses to debate McCain, after bragging twice that he would do so “anytime, anywhere”. He hasn’t done a single debate since Hillary made him look foolish back in February.

Where has it ben widely disproven that Obama declined to Visit wounded troops in germany? He went to workout instead. My personal theory is that Obama didn’t go because the Troops would refuse to meet with a spineless surrendo-crat like him anyways.

Frankly it is very insulting to say that McCain is no longer an honorable man, simply because he Criticized Obama. Obama is just a man, and a sleazy man at that.
KarlLiebknecht

I don’t care if you’re black and if your black liberal friends agree with you about McCain’s campaign. From one human being to another human being…you’ve got to pull your head from the sand, my friend.

What do you think is really behind this constant barrage of attacks on Obama’s patriotism? The whole point is to suggest that he is not one of us. He is different. This isn’t your grandmother’s racism – but it’s something far more subtle, far more under-the-radar.

You may say that I see race issues where there are none. But I respond that there is a racialized war going on around you and your head is in the sand.
KarlLiebknecht

A Republican would never say out loud that Barack Obama, as a black man, “does not know his place.”

Welcome, young man, to the world of marketing and “messaging.” You suggest those things but don’t say them outright.
churchkl

What a bunch of crap. This is what people are fed up with. You Dems see race everywhere. Get over it. If you keep using this line to attack McCain, that he is racist, you will lose. The vast majority of Americans are tired of this over used ploy. I pray that you keep using this tactic. Obama has consistently had trouble with the white working class vote and statements such as, “I don’t look like all the presidents on the dollar bill and by the way did I mention he is black” will serve no purpose but to alienate these voters even further. White guilt may work on eggheads who don’t have any idea how the average American lives but it will not play well with the rest of the electorate.
Adam_C

That’s your problem, not ours. Criticizing Obama’s Iraq judgment is not a racial issue. Criticizing Obama for not visiting the troops in Germany is not a racial issue.

“In any event, these personal attacks at beneath John McCain, who once was an honorable man. And these kind of rhetorical games, moreover, are hurting America. We need good, honest debate about the issues – the mortgage crisis, immigration, taxes, the war.”

If someone called Obama dishonorable, you’d probably call it a racist attack but you’re fine with doing it to Sen. McCain.

But we agree on one thing, it would be nice to debate issues. Too bad the MSM thought covering the substance-free Berlin speech was more important than asking questions about Fannie Mae. McCain pinned an op-ed on it and no one cared. McCain talks a lot about the surge and how it has enabled us to consider leaving Iraq with our heads held high. Obama still thinks the surge was wrong.

We could talk energy policy but the Dems shut down the House instead. We could talk about racial preferences since both candidates have taken different stances on the Civil Rights Referendum in Arizona but the MSM doesn’t want to cover that.

They want to cover a rock-star celebrity who gives pretty, substance-free speeches. That’s what McCain is mocking and for the first time, it is penetrating into the media.

I wish we had different journalists who cared that Obama has no social security plan and was wrong on Iraq policy. But we don’t. We have media who cares more about appearance and horse-race numbers.

I’m sorry that the only way you can see policy and judgment issues is: “What is all of this but, as I said, defining Obama as “other,” “different,” “not one of us.”" It saddens me that there are still people so obsessed with race they can’t comprehend that not everyone is that obsessed.

I hope we get passed that some day.
speciallist

n/t
Jason_Wolf

My personal theory is that Obama didn’t go because the Troops would refuse to meet with a spineless surrendo-crat like him anyways.

Eh? Did he not just visit troops in Iraq previous to his stop in Germany? You know…where he shot the three pointer in front of “the troops”? ( Footage which was then used by McCain, oddly enough)
churchkl

The simple fact of the matter is, blacks cannot say that racism is not at play. They have gained to much over the years using this tactic. The fear among blacks is that if Obama is elected they will no longer have the racist hammer to bang whites over the head with. Therefore, they must inject race into this campaign at every turn to ensure if Obama is elected they cn still point to all the injustice he had to overcome and keep this tool in their tool belt for future extortion.
janis

ever recognize “There you go again.”

You refuse to answer the questions put to you and insist on injecting race everywhere instead. You’re the racist, not us.

By the way, wasn’t it Michael Steele in Maryland who had Oreos thrown at him when he was running for Senate in ’06? Smart, accomplished and black–but a Republican. That, to people such as yourself, is the ultimate betrayal, right? We are not the party that uses race as a wedge and a club. That would be your side.
NightTwister

The point is to show that Obama is an empty suit. He has no experience. His rhetoric is void of substance. He doesn’t show up for the job he has now.

This has absolutely nothing to do with his race and everything to do with his experience.

I would’ve said policy too, but that changes from day to day. So much so, that I don’t think even he knows what his position is on anything today.
ThreeNineNine

Back in March, before Obama was even the candidate.

Video
WaPo Article
Adam_C

Maybe race isn’t “behind” every issue and attack in a political race. If Obama is not allowed to be criticized because of his race, then we have not made it to a point where the country is beyond race. Again, that would sadden me. However, this campaign seems to be showing that it is white liberals who are not beyond race while polls like this show that most people have moved on.

Obama is running for President. If he dodges meeting with the troops, he will be criticized regardless of his father’s skin color. If he is wrong on the biggest political issue of the day (Iraq strategy), he deserves to get criticized regardless of his father’s skin tone.

If he is not allowed to be criticized without people like you saying criticism is racist, then I’m worried about what would happen with him as President. Would opposition to his policies be racist?

“You may say that I see race issues where there are none. But I respond that there is a racialized war going on around you and your head is in the sand.”

Or your radar is turned on “hyper-mode.” If it’s so underground that 80% of the country doesn’t see it and only white liberals do, then why does it matter?

The rest of us can actually debate policy, issues and judgment while y’all wring your hands about how every attack is obviously racial if you look at it closely enough.

And I will echo others on this thread. You are playing with fire here. If ex-Hillary supporters think that they are being called racist because they don’t like Obama’s inexperience or lack of foreign policy knowledge, it will backfire on you. I would be vary wary going around saying “you criticized Obama, thus you are racist.” It’s a quick way to define Obama as the “black candidate” who will “play the race card.” And unlike the D primaries, blacks are 10-15% of voters in the general election rather than 30-40% in the primaries.

Calling voters racist is not usually a way to win their votes (outside of academics, but you have them locked up already).
KarlLiebknecht

If William F. Buckley or Milton Friedman or any of the great conservative thinkers saw the infamous Hilton/Spears ad, they would be ashamed. You have to admit that these ads are silly; they make vague, personal attacks and don’t discuss the actual issues at all.

The conservative movement was once the party of ideas, folks. I remember reading Buckley, Friedman, Hayek when I was younger and they all left a profound effect on me. They were all civil people, who whether or not they disagreed with you, always believed in respectful, serious discourse.

McCain has assured that this election is not, however, going to be about ideas. He has assured that it is going to be about “winning the next news cycle,” “spinning” each word out of Obama’s mouth, slandering his character, attacking his integrity. This is not the conservative movement I grew up respecting.
janis

And you’re right and I was wrong, sort of.
McCain didn’t say it about himself, but he did approve the message.

Still, it was not meant in a racist way, as this poster wants to use it.
Mord

Most people are generally color-blind…or at the very least color-indifferent. That is what this poll shows I think. The “Old Media” is dominated by white lberals, who, as many people point out in this thread, are the only large group of american citizens left that actually care about skin color. I dislike Obama because of his policies. I couldn’t care less what color he is.

Heck, I work outside, my skin is nearly as dark as his is for 6 months out of the year. Who cares?

This whole “critics are racists” is back-firing big-time on the media and the Democrats. Nobody likes being called a racist and they are calling anyone who not only votes against BO, but who merely disagrees with him a racist. They are seriously out of touch with the mainstream citizens.
Vegas_Rick
Of course the fact that Obama does the following has nothing to do with criticism of his patriotism:
1. Hangs out with anti-American fellas like the Weather Underground
2. Supports socialist and Anti-American organizations like ACORN
3. Parked hut skinny butt in a pew for twenty years listening to racist and anti-American rants from his ?Spiritual Mentor?
4. Can?t decide whether or not he should wear an American flag pin.
5. Continually tells us that we should be more like Europeans.
6. Avoids meeting with US troops at every opportunity (our troops really don?t like him much you know)
7. Subscribes to the open borders one-world view
8. Calls us bitter, because we don?t follow his socialist world view
And that?s just patriotism, how about:
1. His only real leadership experience is community organizing, and the communities he ?Organized? are in as bad or worse shape than before he showed up.
2. He advocates the same socialist economic ?solutions? that have been tried and repeatedly failed in the past.
3. He?d rather see us priced out of the energy market, that buck his enviro allies and increase American energy production
And the list goes on?

But, you?re right, we?re all racist for not swooning over ?The One?.
churchkl

Listing a string of famous conservative names does not convince me you are a conservative. Try that somewhere else. Would you criticize the racist ads from the Dem party such as the James Bird ad where his daughter basically states Bush was a racist for not supporting hate crimes legislation without noting that he did support the death penalty for the individuals who committed the crime. No hate crimes legislation could have delivered a more harsh punishment. You can only kill someone once.
Vegas_Rick

and Milton Friedman.

“Slandering his character”

What character? This man will say anything to get a vote. No policy position is safe, no campaign staffer is safe. He goes shopping to avoid the troops. He comes up with his own seal, he already has given instructions to his White House transition team.

It would be real hard to “slander” his character.

Troll
Jason_Wolf

….Blogging on the Huffington Post, Kathy Hilton — the mother of socialite Paris Hilton and a donor to Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign — says she does not approve of McCain’s new TV ad which unfavorably compares Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., to her daughter.

“It is a complete waste of the money John McCain’s contributors have donated to his campaign,” Hilton writes.

“It is a complete waste of the country’s time and attention at the very moment when millions of people are losing their homes and their jobs. And it is a completely frivolous way to choose the next president of the United States.”

McCain, R-Ariz., uses an image of Paris Hilton in a new TV ad to imply Obama is an empty-headed celebrity, apparently unaware that Paris’s parents, Rick and Kathy, donated $4,600 to his campaign.
janis

thinkers” you wish to beat us over the head with, Karl, how about this? John F. Kennedy himself would be struck dumb with horror at the candidate that is leading what used to be the party of national defense.

Remember JFK’S own words” Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?” Obama and the rest of the leadership in your party have twisted that exactly backward. John F. Kennedy couldn’t get nominated in his own party these days, much less elected by them. That’s how far down the tubes you folks have gone.

As to Buckley and Friedman, given your chosen candidate this year, I can’t see that you agreed with them about much of anything.
KarlLiebknecht

Debate the issues!

Besides, what do you know about Obama’s character that hasn’t been fed to you by the McCain spin machine. What do we know of the character of any politician? Nothing, really. All we have is their legislative record. Again, get serious and talk about the issues man.
Mord

Most military people would be pleased to meet a potential candidate for President. The troops in that Video, for example.

But when you are suffering physically, it is alot harder to put up with the BS that comes with a high-profile visit. I was injured in Iraq and recieved plenty of official visitors, but they always ask before they come barging into your room. It’s perfectly fine to refuse, and I bet most guys would refuse to see a guy who was activly trying to undermine the very mission you just got f-ed up trying to accomplish. I could be wrong, I was just offering up what I would have done if I had still been there and some politician wanted to try a grin-and-grip while running on a platform of defeat.
churchkl

What legislative record? Obama’s legislative records consists of mosty present votes and votes he claims he miscast.
NightTwister

-nt-
KarlLiebknecht

that I was a conservative. I said that I admired many conservative thinkers – like Friedman and Buckley.

But you see, you’re trapped in these rigid categories…One cannot possibly respect conservative thinkers and also like Obama on many issues. One cannot like McCain but think that his recent ads are beneath him. Either you agree with every conservative idea in the history of politics are you don’t.

As it turns out, I think that Friedman’s basic hypothesis about the damaging effect of governmental bureacracy is true. But I think that today’s Republicans are fundamentally big-government politicians and, moreover, want to involve themselves in our personal lives, in our bedrooms, more than Friedman or Hayek ever would have wanted. I happen to prefer Obama because I think we need someone younger and he is clearly extremely intelligent, regardless of whether you agree with him on every issue. Anyway, he won’t expand the federal government any more than Bush already has.
churchkl

So basically you are saying we don’t know anything about his character and we know he has no legislative record to look at, so we should vote for him because he knows how to say hope and change. Yeah that makes sense. Once again, give me a break.
Vegas_Rick

Unlike you, and most Obama supporters, I can think independently. I can research Obama?s ties to Rescko(sp), Wright, Ayers, Dorn, ACORN and yada, yada, yada.

You claim ?All we have is their legislative record.? You?re correct about something. Only, your guy has NO record worth debating. John McCain challenged him to debate the issues at ten town halls over ten weeks. You guy doesn?t have the stones to debate the issues. And since he wont? we?ll point out all his other failings.

And it if it drives the you, the nutroots and the Obamanation to distraction, more the better.
churchkl

How do we know he is intelligent. We know he gives a great speech off a teleprompter. But when he speaks extemporaneously he doesn’t seem to be able to string two intelligent thoughts together between all the uhs and ums. We know he lifts alot of his rhetoric from other Demcrats, such as Deval Patrick, Mario Cuomo, etc. He got the Change mantra from Saul Alinsky, he got “the one” from the matrix, he lifted hoodwinded and bamboozled from Spike Lee’s Malcom X. He doesnt’ seem to have any original thougts and even in his wonderful speeches he doesn’t lay out exactly how he will implement change or what exactly that change is. He also talks of uniting but there is no record that he has ever united anyone. So if I follow your advise and look only at his legislative record and what he states on the campaign trail all I am left with is the feeling this guy is an empty suit who give a good prepared speech. That’s probably why he doesn’t want to engage in Town Hall debates with McCain because his answers won’t be on a screen for him and will prove himself the empty vessel he truly is.

churchkl

If you want to talk about racism all you need to do is reference the speeches and video from the Reverend Wright. Obama has still not explained how he sat in that anti-white, anti-American church for 20 years. Obama is suppose to be this great light worker who transcends all other politicians, politics, and ideas, yet he was not intelligent enough to know the church he attended for 20 years was racist and espoused a black liberation theology that should and did offend the vast majority of Americans. Either this is a very dumb man, which means he is not fit to lead, or he is so naive as to have the intellect of a four year old, which also means he is unfit to lead. If he couldn’t understand the racist rants of his own Reverend and call him out on it how is he ever going to stand up for the American people and the American way with despots around the world?
churchkl

Obama now wants 50 billion dollars to create jobs. But when you look at is plan it is another government stimulus plan to give people money. Why can’t this guy understand if you want to create jobs you lower taxes for businesses so they can invest and create new jobs. Once again, why am I suppose to believe this guy is intelligent?

Vegas_Rick

Karl has studied Conservatives in the mist. He thinks he knows how we think. He thinks he can pretend to live by conservative principles. Yet he cannot fathom that absolutely no conservative could justify an Obama presidency.

It goes against everything we believe in.

Dave_in_Fla

Religion requires faith, which often means believing in things that can’t be objectively proven.

Dave_in_Fla

He is just trolling by pretending to say waht he thinks conservatives say. To be fair, I couldn’t go to Dkos and pretend to be a liberal either.

We should have declared Hinz rule awhile ago, but sometimes it is fun to play with your food.

KarlLiebknecht

Except…that it is his wife that gave, not him. And except…that he hasn’t endorsed either candidate yet…But thanks for playing.
KarlLiebknecht

that you find it impossible that someone could be an independent and find some conservative ideas appealing and some liberal ideas appealing. You’re imprisoned by your own narrowness and rigidity.

By the way, I was reading Milton Friedman when you were playing with GI Joes and soiling your underwear, so have some respect.
E_Pluribus_Unum

Well, that seals it. Clearly your position is unassailable.
SteveLA

Google the name, you might get a better understanding of the “game”.
churchkl

Your commentabout soiling pants was rather disrespectful and childish. You should definitely go play with the KosKids. You would definitely be more comfortable there.

wolfgang

“Let it be known that the day I am elected will be the day the oceans stopped rising and the planet began to heal.”

“I’m the one that you have been waiting for…”

We will know what we are in for when he makes his Rose Garden appearance in full Islamic beard with prayer callous on his forehead and demands that we all fall to our knees and worship him.

BrianH

I’ve found what you say to be true. The Democrats always accuse us of being racist, but race is not normally a subject of conversation except when talking about how to counter the false racism charges from the left. I meant what I said about his projecting his own racism on the motivations of others. Just as a thief is quickest to accuse others of stealing, people who’s primary consideration is race are quickest to charge others with racism.

When you judge people by the content of their character as individuals, you are less likely to be racist. Big government programs by definition discount the worth of the individual and treat people only by their worth as groups. Conservatives (and by current affiliation the Republican party) treat people as individuals and to us skin color is a descriptive characteristic to be used as you would use hair or eye color, not as determination of worth. To bad the other party still uses skin color as a primary means of determining worth.

BrianH

I find it difficult to believe that you could be an avid reader of Friedman and still find progressive policies appealing. Or perhaps you missed his explanation that he uses the term “Liberal” in its traditional meaning rather than a label that the Progressives co-opted.

Or perhaps you just need to reread some of his writing….

Neil_Stevens

For Obama it’s the 61% that matters, too, because the 44% are probably going to vote for him in mass quantities anyway.
gopsteve

But Andrea Mitchell said all the reporters she talked to said they did not think it was racist.

Shows where they all stand
janis

man switches positions more often than Kerry did, it’s tough to tell what his issues truly are.

As to “big-government politicians”, but parties can be tarred with that brush, unfortunately. Many of us here are federalists, wishing that the size of government would be heading in the opposite direction. And you are wrong that Obama wouldn’t expand the size of the gov. more than President Bush has. He has stated some ideas that would expand it so far beyond what it is now that it is breathtaking–not to mention hideously expensive. How’s about that National Civilian Troop idea that he has proposed?
Vegas_Rick

Barack Obama is afraid to meet John McCain for debates. Do you really want him negotiating with the leaders of terrist nations and those who support terrorism?

If he’s afraid he’ll say the wrong thing in a debate with John McCain, shouldn’t we worry about the results of debates with world leaders?
Susannah

The problem for Obama is that we’ve seen this movie before. During the Democratic primary, Obama tried to imply that any legitimate criticism of him was racist. It was clearly a way for him to “take issues off the table” that were unflattering to him. Pat Buchanan called it “the intimidation card” in an excellent column that he wrote (linked below).

For instance, Bill Clinton pointed out that Obama was inexperienced by calling him “risky” and a “roll of the dice”. The Obama campaign cried “racism”. Bill Clinton pointed out that Obama had never really been some staunch anti-war advocate (and had never really had a strong position on Iraq one way or another during his time in the US Senate), and that Obama had voted the same way that Hillary had, when he called Obama’s Iraq opposition a “fairy tale”. Again, the Obama campaign cried racism. Hillary pointed out a weakness of Obama’s to the USA Today editorial board when she pointed out that he was weak with the white working class voters, that she was winning over. Predictably, the Obama campaign cried “racism”.

So now, when McCain runs a perfectly legitimate ad that implies that Obama is a vacuous, unaccomplished celebrity (like Paris Hilton), who is simply famous for being Barack Obama, Obama again cries “racism”. Enough!! We’ve seen this movie before and it wasn’t that good the first time. Obama is simply trying to intimidate his opponents into not raising legitimate issues about him (i.e., concerns about his experience, flip-flopping on Iraq, and patriotism), by bullying them with false charges of racism. Well, the problem for Obama is that he has become “the boy who cried race” and we are all, now, wise to his game. The jig is up.

[Pat Buchanan]
(http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=26483)

[Fox News]
(http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/21/obama-suggests-gop-will-use-race-to-scare-voters/)
churchkl

Don’t forget the 1 trillion dollar world poverty tax.
ikez78

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/soren-dayton/2008/08/03/msnbc-cnn-say-britney-ad-racis-american-people-do-not#comment-675948
And yet we see the press seeing McCain as the racist, again demonstrating the massive gap between the media and the public with the press AGAIN being far to the left of the general public. This should be shoved down their throats too.
Vegas_Rick

Sounds like age discrimination to me.
janis

care for children. Not to mention the $1000 per man, woman and child “rebate” he has proposed that will be coming out of the oil companies pockets. Yes, indeed, change you can believe in–because that’s all you are going to have left in your pockets.
churchkl

This reminds me of Chris Matthews telling us to listen to our kids and vote the way they do. I don’t know about anyone else, but I have a 20 year old kid. He is in college, thougful and nice. He is also niave and irresponsible at times. I don’t think voting for someone because they are young is really a bright idea for people who have experience with young people. They are idealistic and get taken away by their emotions. You know what they say if you aren’t a liberal when you are young you have no heart but if you aren’t a conservative by the time you are 40 you have no brains or something to that effect.
Vegas_Rick

n/t
Adam_C

“McCain has assured that this election is not, however, going to be about ideas.”

Yeah, it’s McCain who doesn’t talk policy. He challenged Obama to a dual town hall every week. Obama ran away.

The MSM follows Obama anywhere and reports his non-issue rhetoric as if its news.

McCain goes around the country to small town halls and talks policy all day. No news.

The idea that the “Hope and Change” candidate is trying to talk about issues while the Senate veteran is devoid of them is quite humorous.

Let me know when Obama starts wanting to talk about issues instead of the “they want you to vote against me cause I’m black” which is quite personal and an attack. He called McCain a racist. That’s not issues.

I’m sure McCain would love to have a town hall tomorrow on energy policy or Iraq or foreign policy. He knows this stuff and he’s been right most of the time. Just because Obama prefers massive audience and speeches about sweet nothingness, that isn’t McCain’s fault.

And McCain has to get into the media or else the whole campaign is driven by Obama’s charisma. I think you’re just bitter because McCain found a weakness in Mr. Perfect and it resonates with people.
KarlLiebknecht

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq7Ig00YsWg&eurl=http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
churchkl

And don’t forget this rebate is going to come from a windfall profit tax on the oil companies, which they in turn will pass onto us at the pumps.
Adam_C

Well the whole Jeremiah Wright incident happened before McCain was even running against him. His association with domestic terrorists like Ayers happened long before McCain even knew who he was. Obama’s decision to take his children to racist church was not McCain’s fault.

We have a decent amount of info on his personal judgment.

And his political judgment hasn’t been too good either. He opposed the surge and won’t admit it worked. He cares more about being liked by the anti-war fringe than working toward winning in Iraq and supporting our troops there. That’s enough “judgment” for people to have an opinion about it.
churchkl

Oh, but I forgot, if I just inflate my tires and get a tuneup that hike at the pumps won’t effect me.
Cheetah772
Here’s what we know about Obama’s character.
1. He belonged to Rev. Wright’s church for 20 years, listening to sermons where Wright believed that US government was involved with spreading AIDS among black people. Wright also displayed anti-American sentiments, even at one point, took the name of Lord in vain. For 20 years, Obama didn’t tear up his membership until under political pressure, he did so.
2. He surrounded himself with key players like Rezko and others who have proven to be dirty. It tells us a lot about his judgment of other people and subordinates. He picked Johnson to be the chairman of VP vetting process, that is until it was discovered Johnson had some questionable business deals. Obama had no choice but to throw Johnson under the bus. There you go.
3. He favored gun control laws, until DC vs. Heller came along. All of a sudden, he favored Heller! What about death penalty? Supreme Court ruled that child rapists could not get death penalty and Obama opposed the ruling. Unfortunately for him, he was on record opposing death penalty anyway.
4. He opposed offshore oil drilling, but now changed his position on it. Why? Because he is willing to do anything to win the election. What does that tell you about his character? Obama is not being truthful about positions he takes on major issues.
5. He made a stupid comment about bitter people clinging on to religion and guns. That cost him a lot of votes in Pennsylvania, what does that tell you about his character? The fact is he views himself as an elitist. He walks with an atmosphere of intellectual superiority. He whined about how he had a tough childhood, but he attended a top private academy in Hawaii. So, how could his childhood be tough? He had a silver spoon in his mouth.
6. He choose to give a grand speech in the front of Victory Column in Germany instead of doing some serious work. He gave a speech to 200,000 non-eligible voters — Germans! He wanted to give his speech in the exact place where Reagan once gave his famous, “tear this wall down” speech. Here we have a presidential candidate who thinks he is now President of the United States, never mind the fact that the election is four months away. What does that tell you about his character? He is arrogant and belittling anyone who dares to question his stances and character.
7. He only stayed in Iraq for one or two days. Why not a week? What France, England, and Germany could do for him? Why not stay in Iraq for one week, taking tours and talking to everybody who has done a fantastic job of rebuilding Iraq from scratch? I’d bet that he would learn a lot more than if he only stayed for one or two days. Obama choose to ignore that.
There are so many more, where his character should be questioned. Don’t tell us that we can’t judge anybody based on their character and stances on major issues. Don’t you ever dare to do that.

With all due respect, I think you’re asking for a lot of trouble debating this on Redstate.
churchkl

I think the idea that Obama will not expand government has now been debunked. As George Will said the government should provide for the defense of the nation, secure the borders and get the hell out of the way in all other matters. I don’t need the government to insruct or control how I live. I have done pretty well all by myself in my 40 years. Thanks Barack but no thanks.
KarlLiebknecht

David Gergen, former Reagan advisor and current Harvard professor, talking about McCain’s subtle messaging…Watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq7Ig00YsWg&eurl=http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
NightTwister

Gasoline prices are maxed out right now. People won’t pay more, so they cut back to control the costs.

Oil companies will simply stop drilling new wells. Since there’s no financial incentive to do so (their margin is already very tight), they’ll just wait until the tax environment is better.

This means there will be a further reduction in supply, which will hold prices high with no relief in sight.

The net result is a lower GDP and fewer jobs.
churchkl

Do you even know what this guy has proposed? Because your statements on bigger government are easily debunked. I don’t believe you even know anything about the guy. You need to do some research on your candidate. You are a victim of Obama love. Stop trying to rebutt the facts with opinion. But then again a good lib never let the facts get in the way of how he feels.
NightTwister

dKos was the door on the LEFT. You took the door on the right by mistake.
Vegas_Rick

But it doesn’t matter. We don’t care what Gergen said. Back up your own arguments.
churchkl

That was very funny
KarlLiebknecht

I live in a red state, grew up in a red state and voted Republican until Bush sank the Republican party.

If it makes you uncomfortable that I point out the facts about McCain’s so-far sleazy campaign tactics, then maybe you should try a website where no one disagrees and everyone holds hands in perfect harmony. Disagreement and healthy debate is the essence of a healthy democracy, dude.
churchkl

I think Karl’s last name might be Marx
churchkl

I can’t remember the last time I cared what Gergen had to say. He is the Republican liberals love because he is not a real republican and they trot him out everytime they can.
Dave_in_Fla

Who else wants to take a guess?

Karl, you are confusing debate with talking points. One of them requires intelligent consideration of objective reality. The other is faith in hopes and dreams.

We discuss reality here and have the intellectual honesty to label opinions as such.
Vegas_Rick

Give us one, just one, Obama policy that makes sense. One policy that would cause someone to change their mind.
Dave_in_Fla

Who knew?
Cheetah772

By the way, McCain hasn’t run so-sleazy campaign. After all, he didn’t give a speech to 200,000 foreigners or implied that Obama is a black racist, or even a radical muslim. And McCain didn’t change with the wind on every major issue. That makes McCain a more honest politician than Obama will ever be.
churchkl

Definition of fact for Karl’s clarification.

This an event known to have happened or something known to have existed) “your fears have no basis in fact”; “how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell”
S: (n) fact (a concept whose truth can be proved) “scientific hypotheses are not facts”

What you are saying is not a fact as it cannot be verified. It is your opinion. I will leave it up to you to find out what an opinion is.
KarlLiebknecht

He is not a ‘real Republican’ because he does not toe the party line. Because he dares to express independent thinking and not parrot whatever message the party elders happen to be pushing.

That’s another thing: back in the day, the conservative movement never demanded rigid ideological agreement. You could be a conservative but respect a particular Democratic candidate or idea. You could be a conservative and dislike a particular Republican candidate.

I remember William F. Buckley arguing for hours and hours with liberals on his TV program and not once did he slander their character or say that they were unpatriotic or stupid. He argued with civility and respect and never demonized them just because they disagreed.
churchkl

I hope somebody here can help me out but Karl, during the Democratic convention I believe in 04 Dems wouldn’t let a Pennsylvannia Dem speak at the convention because he was pro life. Anybody remember his name? Talk about rigid. The dems are definitely not a big tent party. Joe Leiberman was for the war and the surge and they ran him out. Ran another candidate for his seat because he did’t agree with their war position. I don’t ever want to hear about Republicans forcing people to tow the line. We have a candidate we disagree with on man issues but we didn’t run him out of the party we nominated him. Get real
KarlLiebknecht

…
Vegas_Rick

n/t
Dave_in_Fla

From the Harvard Crimson

One of the more surprising $2,300 contributions to Obama came from Anne Gergen. She is the wife of Kennedy School Professor of Public Service David R. Gergen, who has been an adviser to four presidents?including Bill Clinton. Professor Gergen did not respond to requests for comment on whether he too is supporting Obama.

Shall we keep playing until Moe shows up, or have you had enough?
KarlLiebknecht

I actually love RedState, one of my favorite blogs.

But I sense that you may be uncomfortable.. Does it make you nervous not to be in an echo chamber anymore where everyone agrees and holds hands?
churchkl

No, I’m not uncomfortable my husband is a Dem. I am just worried at your advanced age you might get so excited you have a heart attack and being the compassionate conservative that I am I want to make sure you are not overextending your mind, which may or may not be in the beginning stages of senility, and potentially inviting a stroke. But if you feel confident this will not happen, then I will continue you enjoy and laugh out loud at your insipid posts.
Vegas_Rick

Sounds like age discrimination to me.

It’s a nice diversion on an otherwise boring Sunday. We’ll tire of you soon.

Unless, of course, you offer ANY fact based arguments to which we can respond.

The only thing more fun than playing with a liberal troll is deconstructing their “arguments” with facts.
Vegas_Rick

It’s a nice diversion on an otherwise boring Sunday. We’ll tire of you soon.

Unless, of course, you offer ANY fact based arguments to which we can respond.

The only thing more fun than playing with a liberal troll is deconstructing their “arguments” with facts.
Darin_H

You aren’t your geography. I live in a blue part of a blue state (Corvallis, Oregon). It doesn’t mean that the liberalism has rubbed off on me.
Kate_Shanahan

here. A number of you have accused me of being a progressive. Some of you remind me o gang members intimidating the neighborhood.

Is it possible to not be so quick on the trigger to blamstick someone just because their ideas differ from one or two of the blamstickers here?

I mean, can’t we all just get along. (jk)

What is the meaning of “Be Respectful, or be banned.” Does it only apply to a certain few?
Vegas_Rick

There’s the respect!
Darin_H

If you actually read RedState you would know that these 2 statements you made are incompatible.

I actually love RedState, one of my favorite blogs.

But I sense that you may be uncomfortable.. Does it make you nervous not to be in an echo chamber anymore where everyone agrees and holds hands?

You must never have been here before this morning when someone at Kos pointed you this way, otherwise you’d know how silly these statements are.

By all means, continue looking like a fool.
KarlLiebknecht

I never said that my position was “unassailable.” But way to put words in my mouth…Learn how to argue.
KarlLiebknecht

At least my candidate knows that Czechoslovakia isn’t a country anymore. Talk about senility.
KarlLiebknecht

You’re proving my original point in this post. That, instead of being the party of ideas and making ads about actual issues, the Republicans have devolved into a grotesque display of name-calling, slander and mudslinging.
Vegas_Rick

n/t
churchkl

Yes, but my candidate knows they are 50 states not 57 or was it 58? My candidate also knows the difference between memorial day and veterans days. Since Barack sees dead people in the audience at memorial day celebrations. I don’t know if M.Knight Shamalan wrote his set piece for him, but he sure was seeing dead people that day.
Vegas_Rick

n/t
Pentagon16

What, so now your Obamessiah is an equestrian horse rider?!!

As long as you are playing the race card like your lord and savior- at least realize it is “too big for his BRITCHES”!

My how the leftists have fallen-you can’t even type decent racial smears anymore!!
churchkl

We can play this game all day and we will win. What is Barack’s excuse for not knowing these things that my 4 year old knows? But I forgot these are the type of serious issues you want to disucss
bs

After that comment and your crack about needing someone younger, you are obviously a hate-mongering ageist. It’s obvious that this campaign is all about McCain’s age, and hateful ageists like you are bringing down this country.

It’s time that McCain played the age card and bring to light the repulsive ageists like yourself.
churchkl

IF this is one of your favorite blogs how come your profiles says you only registered 12 hours ago. I think have been busted in a lie Karl
E_Pluribus_Unum

If she did not want her daughter held up in public as an iconic example of vapidity and shallowness, maybe she should have a different daughter.
Moe_Lane

Ladies and gentlemen: next time, email us.
churchkl

Hey Karl, if this is one of your favorite blogs how come your profile says you only registered 12 hours ago. Not only are you wrong on the issue you are a liar too.
Darin_H

First, I didn’t call you any names, I said, “By all means, continue looking like a fool.” Note, I didn’t call you a fool, I said you were looking like a fool. Second, I asked it you were a liar because your statements don’t match up with reality (really good sign that you’re from the “reality-based community). Now I know you don’t believe what you wrote because plenty of people tried to engage you on substance (particularly Adam C) and you ignore them to reply to me. Thus, I’m just here to point and laugh at you.

I called you out, I was right and you can’t say a thing about it except “ow, ow, stop it, that hurts.”

Again, HAHAHAHAHA
churchkl

Karl are you still there? Or did you run and hide when the heat got turned up?
blooch

We’ve had a Rosa Luxemburg troll here before, and waaay back on 1.0, we had a Skorzeny(Otto) moby. Those are just two that I remember off the top of my head. It’s a favorite conceit of theirs to think they’re going over our heads with obscure Fascist and Commie names, when in reality it just puts a bulls-eye on their Che berets.
churchkl

So calling McCain is not name calling. But proving you are a liar is. Must be nice to live in a world where you make your own rules.
Dave_in_Fla

I’m sure he will be telling all his homeys how badly he beat us. That is the fun things about the trolls, they don’t know when they’ve lost. Makes the day after election day all that much sweeter.
Dave_in_Fla

You took our toy away pout
churchkl

I think we lost Karl. So funny
Dave_in_Fla

Most of us have read Liberal Facism. But you are right, there is always that sour smell of elitism that permeates the air when they show up to “teach us a lesson”.

It was amusing while it lasted though.
Moe_Lane

Besides, he was only doing that so that you wouldn’t be writing on, say, FL-23.
aaronbg

Karl Liebknechtwas a German socialist and a co-founder of the Spartacist League and the Communist Party of Germany

Conservative Communist?????
blooch

please take 2slmbgs out of his misery. He’s got the caps lock on, and he’s overdue for his hourly missive by about 20 minutes. Notice him, please:)
Dave_in_Fla

But I love pointing out how he ignored the second bolded statement, then declared a pyrric victory. The point of contention was whether Gergen is a Republican, not a conservative. Working in the Clinton administration tends to prove the point.

But on the first point, when your wife gives the max to Obama and you refuse to state your preference, it doesn’t take a genius to apply Occam’s Razor.
blooch

please take 2slmbgs out of his misery. He’s got the caps lock on, and he’s overdue for his hourly missive by about 20 minutes. Notice him, please:)
Dave_in_Fla

I promised I’d look into those South Florida races. Should have some time this week, I hope.
blooch

please take 2slmbgs out of his misery. He’s got the caps lock on, and he’s overdue for his hourly missive by about 20 minutes. Notice him, please:)
Moe_Lane

NT
NightTwister

Two posts on CO-4, one on CO-6, and one on the DNC Convention.
blooch

I didn’t mean to canvey a sense of urgency…got it under control now;)
Moe_Lane

Although that reminds me of a post I need to write.
NightTwister

Here.
Nick_Haynes

That all of us here are closet racists! It’s amazing that, without talking to us or even knowing us, you’re able to ascertain that. Your mind is incredibly gifted.

Or maybe, just maybe, you’ve strolled across a party that looks beyond race – a party that is, unlike the Messiah, truly post-racial. You see, we openly admit that there are wrongs in America’s past, but her greatness is in the ability to adapt, change and correct her wrongs. We believe in the greatness of the individual, not the state, which is why we believe that any American, regardless of their situation at birth, is able to overcome and achieve greatness in their lives. Your party sees limits where there are none. Your party believes success is determined by government. We believe success is determined by how hard you are willing to work to achieve it.

Are there some in the party that use it as a cover for their racist tendencies? Of course – same as there are some in the Democrat party that use it for their racist or socialist tendencies. If, however, you want to actually learn something rather than recite talking points and see racist conspiracies in the world that exists only in your mind, I suggest you read a little Frederick Douglass – a black man who truly lived through times of injustice and bigotry.
Nick_Haynes

That all of us here are closet racists! It’s amazing that, without talking to us or even knowing us, you’re able to ascertain that. Your mind is incredibly gifted.

Or maybe, just maybe, you’ve strolled across a party that looks beyond race – a party that is, unlike the Messiah, truly post-racial. You see, we openly admit that there are wrongs in America’s past, but her greatness is in the ability to adapt, change and correct her wrongs. We believe in the greatness of the individual, not the state, which is why we believe that any American, regardless of their situation at birth, is able to overcome and achieve greatness in their lives. Your party sees limits where there are none. Your party believes success is determined by government. We believe success is determined by how hard you are willing to work to achieve it.

Are there some in the party that use it as a cover for their racist tendencies? Of course – same as there are some in the Democrat party that use it for their racist or socialist tendencies. If, however, you want to actually learn something rather than recite talking points and see racist conspiracies in the world that exists only in your mind, I suggest you read a little Frederick Douglass – a black man who truly lived through times of injustice and bigotry.
pointguard7

I think Obama is showing good judgement by refusing to have extra debates with McCain. History shows that the candidate who is ahead in the polls shouldn’t agree to more debates. I do agree that it looks cowardly, but I think it’s highly unlikely that he’s afraid.
Susannah

I was responding to Karl’s previous comments about McCain’s supposedly “dirty campaign”, but it looks like Moe took care of him.
Moe_Lane

Stumbling there would utterly destroy Obama’s image.

Of course, so does running from a fight – but we have months to bring that up.
NightTwister

Obama already agreed to those debates with his “anytime, anywhere” statement.

The fact that he CHANGED his mind surprises no one, but he does HOPE that nobody notices.
blooch

if he’s looking over his shoulder…but then again, we’re talking about a guy who never has any doubts.
chemjeff2

Too bad you are in Corvallis. The pot’s better in Eugene.
E_Pluribus_Unum

I pointed out, ever so humbly, that ‘and Gergen agrees with me’ means nothing. Meaning that your facts better stand for themselves, because calling David Gergen as an authority gives you no help.

That is from someone who knows how to argue. Authority is foundational.

RS

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