Muslim Scholars Denounce Terrorism
Where's The Outrage?
By California Yankee Posted in Breaking News | Islam | Muslim Scholars | terrorism — Comments (43) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Seems Muslim scholars are unhappy that terrorism is equated with Islam:
Opening the conclave the head of the Deoband school, Maulana Marghoobur Rahman, described terrorism as a thoughtless act which is against the teachings of Islam.He said that the killing of innocent people of any religion was prohibited by the Koran, the Muslim Holy Book.
Many participants said they want to change popular perceptions in which, they say, terrorism is being equated with Islam.
Others said that while Muslims should not be harassed because of anti-terrorism operations, the community also needed to be more introspective.
Perhaps if the "scholars" had expressed a little outage and condemnation when terrorist acts are committed, there wouldn't be such a perception.
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The problem extends to India's neighbors as well: Maldives, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh.
"Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account" - Winston Churchill, 1921
Muslims scholars started condemning terror loudly as soon as the Towers fell and have been condemning it ever since, but each and every time, the response is the same as yours.
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
While there is some xenophobia entrenched on the Democratic aisle, attitudes like yours are increasingly the domain of the GOP. Thats not good for your party or our nation overall.
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Muslims who are offended by the islamofascists need to be shouting every day, taking arms with others fighting the war on terror to destroy that malignant ideology.
And frankly, voting for Howard Dean doesn't show very much of a commitment to that. A man so trivial as to quit his religion over a bikepath just isn't able to be taken seriously about religion and such weighty international maters.
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I think that he is an abominable person and deserves to die in prison.
For the record, I'm not crazy about Randall Terry either.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire
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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
you need to write this every day or it doesn't count.
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that there are still voices on the right like yours, Adam. Sincerely, I do.
Actually, it may not be every day so as to satisfy Neil, but I think I do a decent job at City of Brass all the same.
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Dean Nation is now Nation-Building: Purple politics, muscular liberalism, principled pragmatism
He's just one guy, but he's pushing for a nice liberal Islam.
He's been pushing at it for a good long time.
As many bad guys as there are out there (and there are bad guys out there), Aziz is *NOT* one of them.
Aziz, keep it up, my man. I wish that there were more like you.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire
He seems more eager to attack us than UBL.
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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
Back in the days when the name "Den Beste" made you sit up and listen, he was one of the guys who argued for a liberal Islam.
http://cityofbrass.blogspot.com/2002/10/wretched-are-those-who-call-for....
Perhaps I need more persuading but I think he's demonstrated his bona fides.
He's certainly someone with conversing with, rather than condemning as a representative of his faith for not doing enough.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire
We're not the killers of innocent children. We're the ones looking to fight the killers. And yet we're the bad guys, even though we're the ones who actually want to go and stop the bad guys.
His man Obama wants to go and buddy up with the leading proponent of hate and death in the muslim world, the Iranian oligarchy.
But we're the bad guys.
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I don't think Christians have to take every day to denounce the KKK. I don't think blacks have to denounce the Black Panthers every day.
Most Muslims in the U.S. aren't preoccupied with terrorism. They're working as doctors and engineers* and raising their families. They have varied views like most groups and the idea that they have some duty to be outraged more than other Americans is presumptuous.
*American Muslims are on average richer and more educated than other Americans.
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but neither can they complain about connecting terrorism with Islam, when there obviously is such a connection in the Middle East.
Frankly, the coercive form of Islam is not tolerable, and I don't object to pressure that encourages liberal Muslims to denounce it. Opposition to this pressure suggests there's more affinity than they might readily admit. Would they want to be considered in union with them otherwise?
Me making a post that says "Pro-lifers are truly hypocrites. They bomb abortion clinics and they even bombed the olympics! THE OLYMPICS!!! They kill people in the same breath as they claim to love life. I don't know how anyone could..." and on and on and on. I'm sure you can imagine the rant.
Can you imagine someone, anyone, saying something to the effect of "Of course bombing people is wrong, but you have to understand..." followed by an explanation of how awful abortion is?
(Please note: I do not hold the opinion that pro-lifers are hypocrites, that Eric Rudolph is representative of the pro-life movement, or any position implied in quotes in the first paragraph. That position is places for analogy purposes only and does not represent the views of the author.)
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire
"but neither can they complain about connecting terrorism with Islam, when there obviously is such a connection in the Middle East."
I don't hear that from my Muslim friends. But I do think they resent comments like the one Aziz mentioned:
One of Giuliani’s people complains about “the difficult problem” that is “the rise of the Muslims” and wants “to chase them back to their caves.” [Link]. He further refuses to distinguish between good and bad Muslims. After all, “they are all Muslims.” Here is the video of him at the Guardian. Here is Talking Points Memo’s review of it all. The staffer has been fired, but there’s a bigger problem.
And as I said upthread, most Muslim Americans are busy at work, raising their children, and being a part of their community to take to the streets. You know, like most Americans.
"Opposition to this pressure suggests there's more affinity than they might readily admit."
What opposition? My whole point is that most Muslim Americans aren't on this board and are living their normal lives.
It's like that right wing opposition to denouncing the KKK. I didn't see any denouncements today, so that must mean "there's more affinity than they might readily admit."
Just like most whites aren't following the developments of white terrorists, most Muslims aren't following the developments of Muslim terrorists any more than other Americans.
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there are a substantial number of Muslims that like and publicly defend the coercive form of Islam. Look at the Middle East and Europe.
If certain Muslim religious organizations don't want to be tarred with the same brush, it's going to take more than the mere denunciation of terrorism. Why haven't they split off entirely?
I agree this doesn't much apply to the many American Muslims who are peacefully coexisting in American society. For all practical purposes, they have split off. But we also have organizations like CAIR who want to protest any targeting of Muslims while fighting Islamic terrorism. They can't sensibly claim credit for opposing coercive Islam, while at the same time fighting its battles.
First, what do you mean "why haven't they split off entirely?" I don't know what "split off" means?
Second, I'm not talking about CAIR at all as it is not representative of American Muslims (again, like the Black Panthers aren't representative of American blacks).
But I'm glad we agree on my main point which is that most American Muslims are too busy doing other things like Americans do and it's illogical to think they should be in permanent outrage mode unlike other Americans.
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Just like many Christian denominations are not in communion with some others, and instead formally condemn them. I don't see this as too much to ask. If a group believes murder is a sin against God, what fellowship can it have with a group that believes murder is a holy duty?
Yes, we're agreed on your main point.
Since the vast majority aren't religious murderers, I'm not sure why the vast majority should (or how it could) "split off."
Again, I think this is like asking Catholics to "split off" from the IRA.
Muslims I know don't think Islam has murder as a holy duty. They think those people are off their rockers and they don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. Again, like most Americans.
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If we were at war with them, though, and a particular Christian were affiliated with political movement seeking to reduce and wind down our war with the KKK, then I think that particular Christian would have a greater burden.
It's a complete and utter joke to be a committed, informed, active Democrat, particularly in support of a candidate in favor of engaging a state sponsor of terror in the name of Islam, and to also claim to be active in opposition to terror in the name of Islam.
The walk has to match the talk, or it's just not credible. And for someone with that kind of credibility problem to come in our home and make accusations at us, angers me.
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as proof of GOP Islamophobia you, an avowed leftist, provide us with a link to your own blog on a leftist site along with links from Talking Points Memo -- another leftist site.
Compelling evidence.
Would someone direct to me to one single anti-terror rally in an islamic country that comes close to the rallies that took place over a cartoon.
You are an apologist for islamic terror!
"To believe in nothing is to believe in everything. To believe in everything is to believe in nothing"
You know I generally agree with you. But Islam "scholars" have been much more focused on understanding "why this happened" and less on making a moral statement against terrorism. I think people like John Esposito, head of the Georgetown Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding, spend almost all of their research time understanding how US policy made terrorism more likely. It's a sophisticated version of Blame America First. Many of the Islamic Studies departments have a similar ideology.
I'm happy to defend every day American Muslims because I know a good number of them. But scholars are a subset that are much harder to defend. It's the difference between a union worker who wants a higher minimum wage and a scholar who is indoctrinating students in Marxism.
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on this topic is worth having (again). But oviously this is not the right venue. I wish conservative voices werent excluding themselves from the fora in which these discussions are indeed taking place.
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then how do we discuss the war on terror.
This topic is more critical to the war on terror than Iraq, Afghanistan, or any place in the ME.
Of course, why *would* you come to the "fevered swamps" of Red State but to scorn and attack us? So two-faced, you come here to take advantage of the policies here that let you on, but on your site you badmouth us.
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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
These clerics now decide to come out of the closet and voice their displeasure over islamic terror. What a joke!!!
Next thing you know they'll be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. You know where I come from, we clean up our own backyard. We don't wait for others to do the work we ought to.
Why don't these clerics march the streets until they take back their faith from the islamic maniacs.
"To believe in nothing is to believe in everything. To believe in everything is to believe in nothing"
these clerics don't stand up to terrorism in their own countries. Fear!
We get mad at this post and bite his head off (figuratively) while the terrorists will cut off their heads (literally)
"Moderate" muslims tend to get their heads cut off if they speak out. As we can see in Iraq, the moderates will come out if they believe that the good guys aren't going to leave them at the mercy of the evil ones.
is a good thing. I know of no one who would not benefit from some time in introspection. I hope the muslims who aren't with the terrorists will do this & (knowing that some will be targeted by the islamists) speak out against the islamist jihadi terrorism that fouls them by association.
There's a round of condemnation after every attack.
"Time and the bell have buried the day, the black cloud carries the sun away."
T.S Eliot, Four Quartets.
Clinton apologies and are very abstract.
If there are so many, grab the best link you have, and lets discuss the specific condemnation.
[Hate filled rants are a no-no. Don't come back.]
Ignorance is evil
By
Larry Houle
www.godofreason.com
intermedusa@yahoo.com
Ignorance is evil. In a democratic society citizens have an obligation to understand major issues.
It is often asked – How was it possible that such an evil man like Hitler could ever have come to power in Germany. The answer is ignorance of the evil that he represented. The German leadership feared the violence that the black and brown shirts (Nazi thugs) could create on the streets. To avoid the violence, they tried to appease Hitler. The end result was the concentration camps and 55 million dead.
Today, democracies are faced with the evil that is Islam. Again, the new brown and black shirts - Muslim thugs - threaten violence in the streets. Again, the political and intellectual elites are desperately trying to appease this very great evil that preaches genocide, extermination, murder, rape, slavery, oppression, terror, massacres, etc as Eternal Laws of God. Again, the general public hope that this evil will vanish.
In this struggle against this evil 7th century – IGNORANCE IS NOT AN OPTION.
The greatest evil that anyone can commit is acts of violence against human beings in the name of and to the greater glory of God. The second greatest evil that can be committed is to preach evil in the name of God inciting violence against human beings. The third greatest evil is to record in a so called Holy Book – the Koran - teachings of terror, violence, murder, torture, war, slavery, looting, pillaging, hate, etc declaring that such evil teachings are the ETERNAL divine words of God. This is evil incarnate and an obscenity against everything God stands for – a blasphemy and a crime against God himself.
When you are faced with evil that challenges your entire belief system, from what you were taught as a child through schooling to adulthood and you cannot bring yourself to challenge that evil then the danger is that you become encased by the evil and start a process of defending evil and making excuses for evil. Although you may not become involved in committing acts of evil - by not fighting the evil you become an accomplice to evil and in many ways as evil as the person who performed evil.
THEY ALSO SERVE WHO ONLY STAND AND WATCH.
Good-bye.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
IMHO, Neil, Hinz, et al, win this round. Their logic is more sound.
The "Third Worst Person in the World" and aiming higher.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57141
I am relieved that the government is actually taking the time to conduct this investigation. I am alarmed at the results so far.
This is not just a ME or European problem --- it is here.
Many of the Islamic centers are operating under the auspices of the Saudi Arabian government and U.S. front groups for the radical Muslim Brotherhood based in Egypt.
Not surprising when you consider:
Saudi Squander
Jonathan Schanzer, National Review Online, October 7, 2007Of the more than 1,200 mosques in America, more than 80% were built with Saudi money, according to author Reza F. Safa (Inside Islam). In fact, Safa writes that the Saudis have spent “$87 billion since 1973 to spread Islam throughout the United States and the Western hemisphere.” Elsewhere in the world, it is believed that Saudi Arabia finances some 85% of the world’s mosques, where the vitriolic and violent Wahabbist interpretation of Islam is taught. It is indisputable that the current hatred of the United States and the ideology of Islamist violence are reinforced via these mosques.
"Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account" - Winston Churchill, 1921
Sadly, there are a number of reasons why some conservatives and Republicans do not want to pressure the Saudis. Where do they think that will get them; an internal pro-western coup? gradual democratic reform? I'll tell you where it ends - at best a muslim version of China. Oh joy.
"Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account" - Winston Churchill, 1921
The Republican Party has done a fairly good job of shouting down the evilcons whenever they rear their ugly heads. (This very website is a great example of a bunch of Republicans who rail against the evilcons.) How Ron Paul supporters are treated here is a model for how evilcons everywhere ought to be treated... by Christian Groups, by Secular Groups, by pretty much anybody. (Note: This should not be read to be saying that Ron Paul supporters are necessarily evilcons.)
(I rewrote the next part 3 or 4 times before rewriting it to say this)
When we have a group of people condemning actions that are definitely evil, it strikes me that it would be a better response to say "Yes! You get it! We may disagree on many things but we agree on this! Thank you! Welcome!" rather than "It's about g-darn time."
Or, at least, to put the "It's about g-darn time" under one's breath once the conversation is over.
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire