There Really Are Two Americas
By Erick Posted in Culture — Comments (16) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
John Edwards was right. Shocking, I know. When he speaks of two Americas, he's totally right.
This morning I participated in a radio interview in Jamaica with a very nice lefty named Dave Lindorff, who wrote The Case for Impeachment about President Bush. He also runs a blog called "This Can't Be Happening!"
The subject was Scooter Libby. I was in favor of a pardon and Mr. Lindorff was not. I hope it was as humorous for him as it was for me.
To me, Scooter Libby was the victim of a partisan witch hunt. He, at most, got his timeline mixed up when he went before the grand jury and was inconsistent with his prior statements to the FBI. To Mr. Lindorff, it was intentional.
To me, Valerie Plame was not covered under the statute at the heart of the investigation and Richard Armitage had outted himself 2 weeks before Patrick Fitzgerald was appointed, so the investigation was not needed, yet the Department of Justice pushed forward under partisan pressure.
To Mr. Lindorff, Valerie was covered and the whole issue is a canard. Mr. Armitage was in on the operation to destroy Joe and Valerie and he acted in some sort of concert with Libby to take the fall to protect Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. The Justice Department, according to Mr. Lindorff, does nothing without puppet master Bushcheney pulling the strings. The DOJ pushed for the Libby prosecution to take the heat off Bushcheney and now that the heat is off, Libby can be pardoned.
In Mr. Lindorff's world view, Dick Cheney is a Sith Lord. In my worldview, Dick Cheney is a largely and unfortunately ignored Vice President who, had he been listened to, would be working for a President popular with his base instead of almost totally rejected.
There really are two Americas.
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There Really Are Two Americas 16 Comments (0 topical, 16 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
Its not often you get a good right/left cage match.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I support you on immigration but not on this one. Libby lied and he should go to jail for that. As simple as that.
Tomorrow someone commits a crime, I stop the investigation by lying and then claim that since no one was caught for the underline crime I should stay in house arrest. Ridiculous.
ignorant at least and a bithering fool at worst. There was no "underline(sic) crime" committed, as such, there should have been no investigation to stop. Only a witch hunt by a Nifongesque prosecutor. Bumble along elsewhere.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
since he lied to the people investigating the crime.
This attitude is precisely the reason why GOP might go down in 08.
And if there was no crime then why the hell he lied. Liars must go to jail. That's it.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
It's war -- so when can we start shooting back at the enemy Democrats?
should go to jail, RIGHT?
Because we all know someone who KNOWINGLY lied to a grand jury, asked others to also lie to that same grand jury, and yet suffered NO consequences at all.
Oh, yeah, he lost his law license which he has never used!
Say What???
Because Bill Clinton didn't go to jail for lying to a grand jury, was a legal precedent set?
Or are we just asking for a onetime trade. One Democrat got a free pass so now we want one for One Republican?
If Libby didn't indeed lie to the grand jury, he needs to be pardoned. Is there additional evidence which proves he didn't lie?
would be to release him on bail, pending appeal.
The appeal is based on the trial judge's ruling that defense could not have expert testimony relating to Libby's contention that he did not remember the discussion in question.
Let the appellate court rule. If they rule in favor of the trial judge, so be it. Libby goes to jail. If not, he should at least get a new trial.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
but then you knew that.
AND, you know which one clearly KNOWINGLY lied under oath to further his own cause. But, hey! Why bother rehash old miscarriages of justice.
1. Richard Armitage fessed up to being Bob Novak's "source" two weeks before Fitzgerald started his little inquisition.
2. None of the "targets" of the investigation could have been guilty of the underlying crime (assuming there was a crime) because Armitage was the leak and he had no contact with any of the targets.
3. Libby did not lie. He explicitly stated he could not remember a statement that was attributed to him.
And finally, not that it matters, why didn't Bill Clinton go to jail - based on your standard - he admitted lying to a grand jury. And then there was Hilebeast's statements about the Rose Billing Records showing up in her bedroom. And Sandy Burgler.
Oh well.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
occasions. Last time I did, I got smacked. Rightfully so in retrospect, but it should go down as some form of proof that occasionally you can teach an old dog a new trick.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
By comparison a sitting president tried to cover up something we had no business venturing into anyway. I found the safari into the sex lives of the rich and famous a bit distasteful. Having said that .. as I recall Mr. Clinton had to forfeit his law license. Not sure that's a big deal but seems symbolic. I think the partisan impeachment of a sitting president was the ultimate witch hunt and I promise you will come back to haunt us. I really fear that governing from this day forward is going to be very difficult.
Now then concerning Mr. Libby. As I understand it there was never a crime proved in the outing of a CIA agent. This is largely do to the fact the investigation was being blocked hence the " Obstruction of Justice " charge. I don't know about you guys but it seems to me that Mr. Libby was taking one for the team knowing the pardon would be forthcoming. I guess that's the conspiracy buff in me. You do however, have to admit that there has been a lot political capital spent here so credibility is at an all time low. Then the inconsistencies in the testimony seemed pretty agregious, resulting in the " Purjury " charge. Mr. Libby does not appear to me to be suffering from any level of Dementia and the jury saw that as well. He's a young guy and this was a really big deal so I'm sure he kept some notes. I am not sure trying to prove Mr. Fitzpatrick is some kind of a commie pinko democrat hack will gain much traction either. I guess that means we have to render the jury stupid or incompetent or something along those lines. I said that about the OJ jury too and it fell on deaf ears. Sorry guys looks like GW is going to have to take the bait and that should about do it for the law and order crowd. Don't look so surprised this administration loves to send loyals out on the limb and then saw it off behind them.
I think the partisan impeachment of a sitting president was the ultimate witch hunt and I promise you will come back to haunt us.
Who's us? Your fellow posters at the dkos? Thanks for the recitation of the Democrat talking points... I already have a copy of them.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
at best and closer to non-existent. He also knew that the media accolades would issue for an investigation directed at the heart of the Administration, not someone on the periphery and a Iraq doubter at that. There was no, is no, excuse for not going after Armitage, that is if the "outing" charge was serious and substantial. Which, the proof being in the pudding, it most certainly wasn't.
Libby testified as best he could, if wishing to evade he could have said "I don't remember" about eighty times or so, matching Hillary's record and citing The Blob as a precedent.
There is certainly two Americas and many dividing lines, one of which constitutes the deranged who hope for tax increases, it will get the country moving again, as everybody knows that if the people have less money the country is better off.
Pass the Prozac !
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville