Democrats Do Blackmail...Again
They just LOVE eating them some vetos
By haystack Posted in Liberals — Comments (66) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
The Democrats have proven time and time again they are willing to lower the bar as far and often as need be to placate their donors...and THIS is no different although I can't imagine how many fallen and wounded soldiers it's going to take for America to figure out who the REAL evil and corrupt party is in the political abyss these days:
Three senior House Democrats proposed an income tax surcharge Tuesday to finance the approximately $150 billion annual cost of operations in Iraq, saying it is unfair to pass the cost of the war on to future generations.
The plan, unveiled by Reps. David Obey, D-Wis., John Murtha, D-Pa., and Jim McGovern, D-Mass., would require low- and middle-income taxpayers to add 2 percent to their tax bill. Wealthier people would add a 12 to 15 percent surcharge, Obey said.
This is absurd. So far, thankfully, number 1 and number 2 (glean from that metaphor what you will) are not supporting the measure. But wait...there's more.
More below the fold...
That they want to tie a tax increase to a "clean" war funding bill as a means to presumably force Bush's hand, by itself, is despicable and spineless and uninspired. The last time I recall them succeeding at this ploy was when they tied pork to Katrina relief. This one, however, goes even farther down the path of pandering and foolishness:
The war will cost future generations billions of dollars in taxes that we're shoving off on them and it is devouring money that could be used to expand their educational opportunities, expand their job training possibilities, attack our long-term energy problems and build stronger communities,
[Hand raised from the back of the room]Tell me again why it's "unfair to pass the cost of the war on to future generations" but it's NOT unfair to pass on the costs of bloated entitlements like Medicare, Social Security, 'educational opportunities' and job training hand-outs...along with the ever-vague world of "long term energy problems" (for which the Liberals and their tree-hugging contingent are mostly to blame) and - my personal favorite - building stronger communities?
These guys continue to bypass reality. Hey Obey? If we're all dead and the country is run by Radical Muslims, will your grocery list of handouts matter? Will there even BE any children to make pay for the war we're fighting to keep them safe and secure?
Obey has made it perfectly clear he will continue to play this Iraq war off of itself in the public purview:
Obey also announced that Democrats will not pass a supplemental spending bill for the Iraq war until next year, when Democrats hope public pressure could force Bush to change the course of the war.
But he has many friends willing to "float hope" in the ballot box next year while Soldiers and families...and heck, even a few million Iraqis...would like to see this thing come to a close. A victorious one would sure be nice.
Democratic pollster Geoffrey Garin unveiled polling suggesting voters side with Democrats in the upcoming budget battles.
"This is a fight that Democrats ought to welcome, that Republicans ought to fear," Garin said.
"SCHIP and the battle over spending priorities is the most important fight since the showdown over privatizing Social Security," said Gerald McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. "I don't think we need to remind Bush who won that battle."
[...]
Democrats hope their chances of winning a battle with Bush on the war will be better next year as the election season heats up."The showdown is going to be in January or February," McGovern said.
The lawmakers said the tax surcharge was similar to policies put in place to pay for the Vietnam War and World War II.
"By putting together this bill we hope people will stop ignoring what this war is costing American taxpayers and call the president's bluff on fiscal responsibility," Obey said.
Well, isn't that nice? Democrats are calling Bush's bluff, Bush is calling Bin Laden's bluff. Meanwhile, we the people are being...well, you figure it out.
« Do Nothing Dem Congress Slow-Bleeding US Auto Industry — Comments (46) | The Incredible Nothingness Of Joe Biden — Comments (23) »
Democrats Do Blackmail...Again 66 Comments (0 topical, 66 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
The unborn can pay for it with the $5000 (plus interest) that we're gonna give'em.
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever. - David St. Hubbins
I am always amazed when listening to or reading a conservative's rant at how skilled you can be at saying "It's all about me." Give me a break and grow up already. This is our war whether we wanted it or not and we have to pay for it. It's easy to support something when you don't have to pay your way. Our children and grandchildren should not fight our battles for us. Quit whining and take out your wallets. Be a responsible adult for once.
No, actually, I don't particularly care.
Anyway, by now you'll have noticed that your account has been suspended... and you're probably wondering why redfacedmorons isn't loading up for you, either. Well, that would be because we saw that one at the same time and gacked it as well.
I suggest that before you go any further you look up the TOS for your email account at Central [State] University. Just to make sure that your planned future trespassing here doesn't violate them, and all that.
Just a hint.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
their spending plans.
They couldn't care less about funding the war properly; a tax is just another means to their end - lose the war and advance socialism.
Obey obviously doesn't understand the word "backfire".
How many idiotic social programs would go bye-bye if they were itemized on everyone's taxes? The secret to keeping tax dollars flowing to the Dem's failed social programs is to keep those things buried deep beyond public view.
--
"We want great men who, when fortune frowns, will not be discouraged." - Colonel Henry Knox
As Economists I know usually rank war as one of the few occasions in which "having future generations help pay" is moral just.
The idea being that victory in war benefits future generations and thus deficit spending is justified.
I will agree to an increase in my taxes to help pay for the war on terror in Iraq when the congress stops putting pork in the bills that go to their districts.
The Democrats never met a tax they did not like.
*sigh*
Who believes that surcharge would ever disappear probably believes that David Obey is really interested in doing anything to solve any problem other than increasing the roles of people dependent on the state, and thereby increasing supporters of the Party of the Welfare State.
Informal poll... how many people would wager that more than 30% of the Democratic Party are people who do not directly benefit from government largesse through one way or another.
After all, this year they've repealed the telephone tax that paid for the Spanish American War.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
The Democrats will be proposing a huge tax increase in an election year to pay for new anchor babies at $ 5000 each. I'm sure that will be popular with the electorate.
Did Karl Rove suggest this to them? Way to jump on that opportunity Demmies!
PS: Aw shucks. Pelosi apparently caught wind of it and killed it four hours after it was proposed.
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/pelosi-nixes-idea-of-war-tax-2007-10...
the most important fight since the showdown over privatizing Social Security," said Gerald McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. "I don't think we need to remind Bush who won that battle.
I don't think we need to remind Mr. McEntee who it is that PAYS the members of his Federation.
AFSCME is almost as divorced from economic reality as is the NEA and AFT - and they know darn well on which side their bread is buttered.
-------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Nothing like ticking off a president not running for reelection.
Its also good form to talk big and point out how ineffectual he is. I mean it worked really well for Sadam.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
And as to poll questions, instead of ones like "Do you believe you are entitled to free health care?" it should be questions like "Do you feel you should have to pay out of your own pocket toward health care for all people we determine are poorer than you are, even if that means you pay more to the ones below you than you get from people above you?"
I believe that the Iraq endeavor is saving the country money.
One 9-11 cost us trillions. Just one, six years ago...trillions.
If the jihadis were not so occupied, they would have been trying their black hearts out for those last six years to incur numbers two, three, four and etcetera.
The damage would increase exponentially, as fear would mount with each successful attempt.
The cost of Iraq is a pittance by comparison. And the better skilled we become at it, the less it will be.
haystack's 12th:
Conservatives (and Presidential Candidates especially) shall offer no aid and comfort to the opposition in times of legislative conflict (and ensuing political campaigns).
that when the Clinton's ended office we had a SURPLUS. It's Bush that is leaving our great great grandchildren in debt. I think the 30% of people still supporting this war should fund it!! I'm sick of our schools cutting and cutting and cutting because all of our money is being poured into a war that most people no longer agree with. Don't you find it more than a little ironic that while terrorists live all over the world we seem only to go after the ones in oil rich countries? This "war on terror" is a joke. It was Bin Laden who attacked us and yet most people were too emotional to think straight. Too many people did not question why we would be attacking Iraq in response to 9/11 when the terrorists responsible were not from there.
There were a good amount of people who wanted the war. Those people who voted YES to the war should pay. Those who voted NO, should not have to pay. I believe people should pay for what they agree upon and people who did not agree should not pay or be held responsible for other people's decisions. Imagine that before the war, you have the choice to increase your own tax if you agree for the war. What I disagree is to forward the bill to future generations who had no control in voting for the war.
To be able to post here you should at least be able to pass the Turing Test.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Deal. As long as not one cent of my money helps you in ANY way... no unemployment, no student loans, no tax credits for your home you have, no tax credits for the kids you've spawned, no tax dollars for the roads YOU drive on... not one cent of mine to fund anything you use... I haven't agreed to it.
That's how absolutely ridiculous your supposed position is.
dems are pretty bold with the tax crap already. Just think how crazy they'll get if they take the White House and hang on to congress?
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you. Washington Elected Elite
It seems the countries debt has increased dramatically since Republicans took office so it seems democrats couldn't really screw that up anymore than it is. Plus, I'd kind of like to see some of tax money go towards education, human service organizations, etc. At least there it would increase the quality of life for American people while NOT killing our troops.
Most people agree that roads, etc. are useful. Most people want the war to end. That is the difference between my argument and your ridiculousness. We have a president who has made it clear that he doesn't care what his constituents want. BTW, I didn't "spawn" children. My son is adopted although I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond to that. It's pretty sophomoric to bring someone's children into a political argument. It's that kind of emotional thinking that got us into this war to begin with.
My kids are raised so I don't want to pay one dime, zero, to any kind of education program or school for any reason. Also I get a refund for any spending I don't care for or use.
As you believe that this war is about oil would you pledge to refrain from using any petro products? Happy wood chopping and cycling to you.
The point is not that we should only pay for services we individually use. The point is that we are suppose to be a democracy and when the overwhelming majority want our troops home then it is time. Especially since the war ended in 2003.
Nearly half of the Senate and House and our President don't agree with you. You don't get your way just because you think you should.
BTW you must still like to drive.
AND in a recent debate none of your top Dem. candidates would commit to withdrawal by the END of their first term.
Happy trails to you.
If, as you suggest, the "overwhelming majority of Americans" want the troops home, why hasn't your congressional majority made that so?
The Constitution clearly provides for working around a tyrannical Administration-cut funding...yet such simple, constitutionally provided, and alleged majority supported action has not been taken.
Could it be, I don't know, that the overwhelming majority of which you speak is the one with deep pockets and loud voices...and that THEY are saying so?
An overwhelming majority shut Congress down...hard and fast... when they tried to shove an immigration bill down our throats-and no one is dying in the illegal immigration debate. So, inquiring minds want to know-why hasn't the war been shut down? Where is that passion and outcry from the "overwhelming majority" now?
Your premise is weak, and not based on reality-it's based on media hype and PAC shrill, and doesn't reflect the America that hasn't been asked how they feel...or, whose responses didn't find their way on to the final tally of the polls you insist on using to defend your position.
haystack's 12th:
Conservatives (and Presidential Candidates especially) shall offer no aid and comfort to the opposition in times of legislative conflict (and ensuing political campaigns).
Inside Politics
* Tools:
* Save |
* Print |
* E-mail |
* Most Popular |
Poll: GOP support for Iraq war beginning to waver
POSTED: 0314 GMT (1114 HKT), June 26, 2007
Story Highlights
• Support for Iraq war at all-time low of 30 percent, according to latest CNN poll
• Sixty-nine percent of Americans believe the war is going badly
• GOP opposition growing and 42 percent support some form of troop withdrawal
• Sen. Lugar, a prominent foreign policy voice, says war needs to change course
By Bill Schneider
CNN Senior Political Analyst
Adjust font size:
Decrease fontDecrease font
Enlarge fontEnlarge font
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Public support for the war in Iraq has fallen to a new low. Not only that, but Republican support is beginning to waver.
President Bush's troop buildup, or "surge," meant to quell the sectarian violence is now in place.
"The final surge was just completed in the last 10 days," Senate Minority Whip Trent Lott said Sunday.
[Rest redacted; we respect fair use here. Link and excerpt anything that isn't yours. - Moe Lane]
haystack's 12th:
Conservatives (and Presidential Candidates especially) shall offer no aid and comfort to the opposition in times of legislative conflict (and ensuing political campaigns).
You have not answered the question as to why we're still there. Congress (representatives of the will of the people) have yet to muster the sack to de-fund the war, and the Presidential candidates on the left have, consistently, said we won't be leaving any time soon.
Your reference (CNN) has a fairly well documented track record of supporting the moveon agenda...nothing to see here sports fans.
Try again. Next time, explain for us why the overwhelming majority of Americans have yet to make their Representatives up on the Hill get us out of Iraq, seeing as how this is clearly what everyone wants...yet they had no problem killing the immigration bill.
I am waiting.
haystack's 12th:
Conservatives (and Presidential Candidates especially) shall offer no aid and comfort to the opposition in times of legislative conflict (and ensuing political campaigns).
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/26/poll.iraq.schneider/index.html
Man, now this is becoming too much like homework! lol
thanks for the tips :)
An OLD CNN poll, talk about stuck on stupid.
Not any better, but newer.
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
About withdrawal: 52% say withdrawal pace is about right, needs to be more slow or not at all refering to reaching 130,000 by next summer. No overwhelming majority there.
Asked another way 54% want withdrawal but has no time line.
Consider margin of error and you MIGHT have a slim majority.
We all want our troops home so these polls will always lean that way when asked that way. Still, no overwhelming majority.
CBS has Bush war approval at 25% to WaPO at 30%. Since the are both Bush haters I assume it has to do with how they ask the questions. Thats why its hard to believe a poll take by a bias establishment.
Approval ratings for the war and statistics citing different ways to bring the troops home are two different issues. Someone can disprove of the war and still think we need to be smart in planning how we bring troops home.
One can always claim that every media outlet is full of "bush haters." Liberals claim that the media is slanted the other way. What I know is that I hardly know a single person anymore who approves of Bush or the war even if they voted for him~and I'm in a Red state. With elections coming up that has to be taken into consideration.
I'm obviously not the only one. A lot of those who voted for Bush the second time regret it now. Even my die hard Republican family members have stopped voting Republican on the basis of Bush and the war in Iraq.
Obviously, we're still there because Bush is still in office. I think we'll be seeing changes soon. Democrats cannot stop funding the war because there is always the "troops would go without equipment," argument and no one wants that. We want our troops home safely. If we're sending them over there we need to support them in every way needed including when the help they will need to reintegrate when they return.
Voting for Bush the second time around was the only alternative. Kerry is a horror. It is unfortunate that the democrats seemingly trample on American traditions and values and have a quasi-socialistic outlook. We have no place to go but the republicans. No third party has a real shot.
I guess I should have used Fox statistics. Oh, wait. It's run by the Bush's first cousin. No way CNN could be more accurate than Fox, lol.
...and not made this site a party to copyright violation. What the heck is it with you people and disregard for property rights?
Excerpt and link from now on. If you don't know how, learn.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
It takes the edge off.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
they cooperated with Saddam in order to remain in Iraq, or maybe because Eason Jordan claimed our soldiers were killing reporters, or perhaps they are following the Dan Rather/CBS example, or the two week long lie on the NY Times/MoveOn story. Maybe the New Republic/Scott Beauchamp thing is their model,who knows why one outlet is more honest then another ?
And would you care to tell me what in your opinion will happen when we bring the troops home, to end the war so to speak.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
If we brought the troops home~they wouldn't die, be maimed or miss the births of their children. It would save us 2 billion dollars a week, which we could use to repair our own country. Perhaps we'd be able to work on foreign relations so that everyone on the planet doesn't hate us because we've been made to look like we are nothing more than cocky, bossy, ignorant fools. We could maybe stop trying to cut children's health care and perhaps our schools could get up to par so that we can compete in the world markets. Our placement in the world's education is atrocious especially when you consider we are, well, were, the wealthiest nation on earth. Perhaps we could do something about these damned insurance companies or do nothing but commit robbery. They charge high rates and then fight tooth and nail to make sure they don't actually cover anything and drop people if they get sick. Maybe then people wouldn't have to choose which finger to get sewed back on because they aren't allowed to get both. Maybe then our 9/11 workers who now have terrible lung problems could be provided with the medical care and medications that they need. Just to name a few.
into a stream of consciousness rant, the least you could do is break it up with the occasional carriage return.
That way those of us who are eating (it's lunchtime on the east coast, you see) can have a break now and again to fight back the gag reflex.
Oh, and put the violins away, kid. If you're going to pull anecdotes out of "Sicko" the least you could do is give Fat Mikey the credit.
-------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Yes, I'm sure that the soldiers in Iraq right now really care about what you choose to leisurely read while you eat your lunch. They'd probably just like a chance to eat and they probably have much more gag worthy material there.
Ah, such great empathy you have for "the soldiers in Iraq right now". I'm touched. Truly.
Don't you have Geometry I to get to?
On the other hand, it's been a while since Moe's been able to blast a non-Ronulan Talking-Point-O-Matic™. I'm sure he'd enjoy the change of pace.
-------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
With elections coming up though I'm trying to hear all the sides of the debates. This is only my second day here and I'm sick of hearing the Ronulan thing, lol.
There are plenty here who are sick of dealing with it.
Just saying.
-------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
no one cares what you are sick of...you are a guest....never forget it.
" in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years."
Abe Lincoln
Being female does NOT mean that I have anything at all to do with home ec!! You are not helping your cause! You have someone here who wants to try to understand your side and being sexist and insulting is not helping you at all! Why are you so rude?
means you don't clean up after yourself, who does? I refuse to believe you are a slob, except in your posts, which can be excused on an IQ basis.
Sweet dreams, and don't come back until you sharpen up your act.
This is a tough world.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
HI! I w as reading your message to my mom and she explained the "carriage" remark. I can sort of remember those days!
:)
and possibly a note of hysteria in your post. OK, so we'll drop the bit about Fox News after you've been called on it, it's kind of hard to attack Fox's honesty with some of the things going around in the "respected" media. I sympathize.
But the rest of your post? Get a grip my man!
Cut children's health care, where, Bulgaria, Mars? Are you following the continuing expansion of the SCHIP's program?
Repair our own country? You mean we pay billions upon billions in local, state, and federal taxes and the country needs to be repaired? Then what have we been spending the money for and on, and what will the additional billions that you wish to throw around do that the previous unaccountable billions do?
Education? but we go back to the billions on that one, and perhaps you missed it while counting the stalagmites in your cave but federal spending has gone up bigtime over the years, sad to say even more under Bush. Where has it gotten us? Ah, but we have to spend more.
Everyone on the planet, hate us? Did you do a headcount and why do you so want to be loved? Remember pal, the world whose adulation you crave is centered in the UN. I don't wish to enter into details of that corrupt organization, it's tolerance for ruthless dictators, etc. But The World did turn a buck or two on the Oil For Food thing didn't they. Be more selective in seeking love! If not, I promise to love you, Platonically and just a little bit.
Sorry you don't like insurance companies, maybe we need dafedralguvmint, mentioned above as to honesty and performance, to step in. This way dafedralguvmint can screw you instead of the insurance companies. You would like that.
To save the worst for last. I expected Dumb, but there are limits. The reason I asked for your opinion as to ending the operations in Iraq was to solicit thoughts on alternatives contrary to the usual ignorance as to what might happen.
Instead I get the usual ignorance plus. Romping with the kids and all that. I'm tired and know that I've wasted my time on you, but is it possible that you really believe the war ends if we leave Iraq? Do you have inside information, a pipeline to a world wide movement dedicated to our destruction, that in the manifold ways and forms war, and terrorist war, can take, that it's all over? No more death, no more maiming, no more war around the world, anywhere, anytime? But as I said, I wasted my time.
Better you believe in the Easter Bunny and of course dafedralguvmint. Signing off pal, can't do it with you and I'm sorry I tried.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
Of course you can get a majority if you combine those whom want the troops to come home in defeat with those whom want troops to come home in victory. The minority want to ave troops there indefinitely regardless of the outcome.
I want our troops home but, I want them all home to celebrate a Victory over Terrorism.
I can't wait for VT Day. I'll bring the beer! LOL!
Reply To This. Absolutely vital to use. You're not all moderators, who can mess it up themselves, delete the offending post and redo as if nothing at all odd had happened.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Don't feed the troll. Mind you, it is good for Redstates stats
Don't feed the troll. Mind you, it is good for Redstates stats
Don't feed the troll. Mind you, it is good for Redstates stats
that's what they should call this. A temporary surcharge to fund a war, so temporary it lasted over a hundred years. You would need lings the size of Madison Square Garden were you to hold your breath waiting for this one to end.
I've always been intrigued by the idea that the best way to help the kids is to tax their parents. But wouldn't it be fairer to tax the kids for the public services and structures that they are handed through our tax dollars? Oh, but we're doing that, that's the way it usually works isn't it?
But the Dems line is a good selling point, if you're a moron.
God knows we heard it enough in both '91 AND '93.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
Seems to me that as mentioned that the Dems are going very low on this one. 'Here, we'll give you the funding you want but you have to sign this new additional tax.'
What freakin' crapola. The more I hear and study these matter the more I am positive that very few up on the hill have much economic sense beyond what they can buy via welfare for their next campaign.
Of course we are not taxed enough!!! Gotta have a new war tax on top of the already outrageous taxes that go to pay for our ever growing welfare state. *sigh of exasperation*
Sorry, I'm sure this is mostly the choir here but this crap coming out of congress irritates me to no end.
Although this is a clear ploy by Democrats to hinder the war effort and as the first commentor suggested why hasn't this been proposed for say Medicare and Social Security debt.
But there is nothing inherently wrong with proposing to pay for government costs up front as opposed to going further into debt simply to make it appear as thought there is no cost.
2001 Bush tells the nation that the war on terror will last decades. 2003 he says that the MISSION to topple Saddam is accomplished. He has never declared the war is over. Our brave men and women are killing AQ and there cohorts by the thousands and we haven't been hit for 6 years but the war isn't over. The danger is people who don't take is seriously and decide it's over. Then they pull another 911 X 10.
to pass on trillions of dollars of Medicare and Social Security debt to the next generation.
====
"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -- James Madison