Redstate

Poverty is NOT the root cause of terrorism.

War IS the only answer.

To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge.--Disraeli

I don't think so. Terrorism is, in many ways, an idealogical thing - If you remove the demonization of "the other" (no matter what that is) by education, doesn't that weaken the terrorists' ability to bring others to their cause?

has really worked out well, hasn't it. And I'd remind you that the breeding ground for terrorism in America (the Weathermen, SDS), Germany (RAF and Baader-Meinhoff), and Italy (Brigata Rossa) were universities. The same applies in the Arab world.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

60% of the people in US colleges are at the top of the economic pyramid.

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...white. Poverty does contribute; as soldiers told me when I was in Baghdad last week, finding paying work for Iraqis will decrease terrorism in that country, as right now some folks are planting IEDs and attempting to kill US soldiers for the cash payoff they receive from terrorist organizations for doing so.

but, don't we have to also look at the difference between a criminal vs. a terrorist? I would not dispute that poverty can contribute to criminal activity. I think there is definitely a difference between the two, and think it is dangerous to 'lump' them all together. One glaring difference I see is that a criminal actions has far different goals in mind, for example, satisfying 'my' immediate needs. Whereas a terrorist is more rooted in a 'cause.' How would you differentiate between the two? I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I would appreciate your insight, as I do value your (and other Red Staters) opinions. To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge.--Disraeli

Do you want to cite some proof or is this just normal American leftist terrorist supporters passing on enemy propaganda?

The man could have spent most of his life farting through silk any time he chose to apply his talents and education in a positive fashion. The only excuse that terrorist had for his poverty was his own intransigence.

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...as if people will be less likely to resort to jihad and suicide bombings if they have more to hope for in life than being kept powerless and ignorant by their despotic rulers.

The Middle East is a cesspool of corruption, exploitation, and medieval extremism. Poverty is only a symptom, not a cause. For decades, we have perpetuated this cycle by settling for regional stability. Now, we are finally attempting to establish a new alternative in Iraq where people can actually have a voice in how they live their lives.

The same bleeding hearts who should be supporting the cause as a humanitarian effort are too busy chanting their "war monger" mantra to see the bigger picture. Until you prove otherwise, I'll count you in that same group that has embraced the notion that ignorance is bliss.

--
"We want great men who, when fortune frowns, will not be discouraged." - Colonel Henry Knox

"Poverty is only a symptom, not a cause."

You found the words I was looking for :)!

To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge.--Disraeli

...I'm looking forward with great anticipation to reading your well-thought-out, well-reasoned diary on how "we...address" worldwide "poverty" - as well as how doing so will "reduce the number of lives lost, save money, and [help us] live up to the reputation of world leader."

I'd like to see that today, in fact.

Sure Jeff. Read the UN Millennium Goals and how they are being accomplished. Now ask Bush how he plans to win this war. I don't think you'll get an answer.

You're not even trying.

The UN is the corporate headquarters for all the terrorist nations to hide and whine about the evil imperialism of the West. Puhlease.

How many UN personnel are currently PHYSICALLY in Iraq, furthering those feel-good do-nothing nonsense millennium goals again?

Exactly.

haystack's 12th:
Conservatives (and Presidential Candidates especially) shall offer no aid and comfort to the opposition in times of legislative conflict (and ensuing political campaigns).

that poverty is a cause of terrorism? bin Laden? Zawahiri? Commandante Marcos? any of the 9/11 hijackers?

No, terrorism is an outlet for the disenfranchised middle to middle-upper class.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

are enjoying one of the greatest economic windfalls in their national history. If your theory held any validity, wouldn't you think they'd both be using their arms for hugging, not for terrorism by now.

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When these idealogues ran Afghanistan, equality and the abolition of poverty was not exactly the first order of business. The war is about power, and I think we have pretty good idea that the Iraqis don't want Al Qaeda in power.

Terrorists are being killed and captured everyday. And, every one of them that is taken down is a plus for the Middle East and the world.

...that the best way to combat frustration and poverty is to give people a democratic voice in how they live their lives. Changing the dynamic in Iraq and the Middle East is a long-term solution.

How do you propose we do it faster? I anxiously await your solution. But you'd better guarantee that it works in less than 24 months or you'll lose the support of the impatient, weak-willed public.

--
"We want great men who, when fortune frowns, will not be discouraged." - Colonel Henry Knox

Read this. Do what it says. Period.

Your comments are, at this point, adding nothing to the conversation. Do what I said above, please.

You're gone. Buh-bye.

bin Laden - independently wealthy.

Zawahiri - doctor

9/11 hijackers - at a minimum middle class, some were priveleged.

You can only make a statement

Do you really think that if these people were well off they would be risking everything to fight us?

by being totally uninformed on what does motiviate them. Try a book from two members of Clinton's NSC, Age of Sacred Terror, for starters. Then stop the threadjack and return to the subject of the story.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

is a main driving force behind terrorism. My guess is that poverty exists in many places around the world where terrorism is not prevalent...criminal activity may be high. I'll admit my earlier comment that war IS the only way was snarky, and I agree that there are ADDITIONAL ways to combat terrorism. As a preventative measure education is key. We are not going to solve the poverty issue, but we can 'solve' the scope in which they can effectively attack us.

To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge.--Disraeli

Indian Subsistence farmers - Impoverished - Check, Terrorists, no check.
Brazilian peasant farmers - Impoverished - Check, Terrorists, no check
Americam Indians (Sorry Indigenous people) living on reservations - Impoverished- check, Terrorists - No check
Slum dwellers of Thailand - Impoverished - CHeck, Terroriists - no check
.
Son of a gun. It appears that poverty isn't the root cause of terrorism.

It takes capital and spare time (and spare time is money) to spend one's days developing the ideology and infrastructure of a terrorist network. Which is why GWB & Co made choking off the financial sources such a big priority, and rightly so.

Poor people concentrate on survival. Some can become foot soldiers in terrorist movements, but most resent the terrorism that makes their life more difficult.

you are suggesting that our aim in the war on terror should be to eliminate poverty thoughout the world and thus destroy the recruiting ability of current terrorists?

We should, in addition to fighting them, be exploiting the propaganda (lies). That would have more immediate impact on their 'recruiting' ability, and is more realistic than a worldwide attempt to eliminate poverty.

To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge.--Disraeli

some kind of economic or social justice program. That is, if the Taliban or Al Qaeda had some slogans (however dishonest) that promised, for example, equality for downtrodden racial or ethnic minorities, or for the working class.

Of course, Al Qaeda has no such program. The terrorists are not interested in "progressive" goals which you seem to think are their big appeal.

Rather, the appeal is to the blood lust that lurks in every human being, and which civilization only imperfectly ameliorates through strenuous efforts by its institutions -- religion, education, tradition, values.

Fascist Islam is expansionist, supremacist and totalitarian. It seeks world domination through violence. It appeals to people who are alienated or cut off from the roots of any kind of civilizing culture (including Islam, by the way).

Poverty or ignorance does not, as you suggest, make people more susceptible to the appeal of terrorism. Rather, it is the encounter with modernism by members of the middle class or the alienated upper middle class which is the crucible in which terrorists are formed. An element of leisure is necessary for the transformation, along with something you appear not to be aware of, namely the sexual obsession or dysfunction that is also a feature of middle class life.

In other words, you make a common error here, in assuming that any force that opposes us is in some way "progressive" in its appeal if not its goals. But even this is clearly not true. Al Qaeda is not much interested in poor people, except that they are easier to kill -- they tend to congregate in schools, buses, trains, malls and food courts. Rich people tend not to be targets of terrorists because they are protected. That's one of the points of being rich -- you know?

You remind me of the Commie Mayor of London, Red Ken livingstone, who critiqued the London bombers for killing working class people on buses instead of, presumably, the bosses in their penthouses. Talk about missing the point!

However, this point is being addressed, TC, as there was a meeting in Cairo between the terrorists and some Western Commies in the hopes of injecting some class warfare and class consciousness and other Marxist claptrap into Al Qaeda's rhetoric.

Because the whole religion thing...that's gotta go! and the stoning women and the honor killings and so on...get with the program comrades!

They all, OTOH, should be dead. Or about to be dead.

This is simply the dumbest argument on earth. Tell ya what Bubba, why don't you write a blog about just how we should address the terrible inequalities that cause terrorism. It'll make interesting reading.

Don't forget to discuss the great strides the Palestinian leaders have made in eradicating poverty and terrorism while you're at it.
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Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.