Redstate

I suspect you'll be waiting a long, long, long time.

...Moveon.org, Daily Kos and others influence a bit too easaly:

first, Moveon.org, Daily Kos, etc. is NOT the Democratic party. I believe every Presidential candidate will at some need to answer for them since they all, short of Biden, showed up at the Kos Konvention. However, there is a bit moving the goal posts here. This is some lunatic blogger at the Daily Kos. This is not a Democratic Congressperson or operative.

I think Joe Lieberman and others might have a thing or two to say about that!

Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Senior writer for The Hinzsight Report

however, someone like you and I, peripherally (I hope I spelled that right), wrote this piece. This wasn't a piece written by Chris Dodd.

Again, by showing up at their convention they have given tacit approval for everything that goes on at the site. Still, this is NOT the Democratic Party, anymore than the DLC is not the Democratic party. Obviously, the Kos Kids have plenty of power and frankly too much power in the party. Still, I think we are trying to make political leaps when attribute this to the party. This obviously would give our side an advantage however it is also unfair. This is from a blogger on the Kos site.

That said, I don't think the focus should be on who it should be attributed to. The focus should be on the attack which is beyond the pale.

I think most of RS shares my deep affection for Ronald Reagan. I think we all understand how a great a person he was and the overwhelmingly great contribution he made to America and to the world. There will be probably never be another one like him. I don't mind someone trying to question his record, because his record is so easy to defend. I do mind here where his good name is dragged through the mud being mentioned in the same sentence with such utter evil. This attack must be accounted for. This blogger must be exposed. Ronald Reagan deserves the very best for what history has and I will not stand by while political opponents try, and fail, to muddy up his legacy.

"The nine most dangerous words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'"

Ronald Reagan

www.proprietornation.blogspot.com

Again, by showing up at their convention they have given tacit approval for everything that goes on at the site. Still, this is NOT the Democratic Party, anymore than the DLC is not the Democratic party. Obviously, the Kos Kids have plenty of power and frankly too much power in the party. Still, I think we are trying to make political leaps when attribute this to the party. This obviously would give our side an advantage however it is also unfair. This is from a blogger on the Kos site.

Mike, I think you are trying to put too fine a point on this. Where - specifically - do the governing philosophies, rhetoric and actions of the democrat leadership differ from the views of the kossite?
While every rank and file dem may not ascibe to these sentiments, those whom they have explicitly chosen as the face of thier party certainly do. I won't elaborate on all of the (what many consider treasonous) statements of reid, pelosi, murtha, kennedy, schumer, wexler, nadler, woolsey, moran, mcdermott, durbin, and kerry (too name a few). I'm sure you can recall, off the top of your head, a memorable statement by each that leaves little doubt as to where they stand.

You are being far too kind to the democrats. They deserve neither your consideration of good intentions.

The other side being the enemy. They are not. I have a view of the world that is a lot different than most Dems? How many agree with my Reagan quote for instance? That makes them misguided in my opinion. They are not all bad people and in fact most are not.

I have always been impressed with Harold Ford for instance. My effective if not corrupt mayor Richard Daley is a Dem and I vote for him.

Kos is vile and the worst of political discourse. Its success is due to its uncontrolled vile nature in my opinion. I have nothing but contempt for them. They are not the Dems at large.

"The nine most dangerous words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'"

Ronald Reagan

www.proprietornation.blogspot.com

when you say this, which may be true on the face, you ignore the growing influence of the hard left on their party. Let's face it, the vast majority of conservative Democrats in the South LEFT the party a long time ago. Those who stay have a lot of 'splainin' to do.

Some of us follow the left and their influence closer than others. We are all entitled to our opinions, but if anyone thinks Daily Kos and its thoudsands of members, are on the fringe of the national Democratic party, they are wrong.

Molon Labe!

Absolutely not. I know how powerful and growing their force is. Nò other blog has ever brought together Presidential candidates. I am not saying their influence is not large and growing however this piece and the Petraeus ad are so vile that some here want to attribute this to the Dems at large because that weakens the Dems. Kos is not however the Dem party. It is a base. It is a growing and powerful force. No one is denying this and it is for the Dems to decide what their party will look like and it is possible that they will eat up all the other forces but we should not call say they are the same or risk losing credibility ourselves.

"The nine most dangerous words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'"

Ronald Reagan

www.proprietornation.blogspot.com

But what about when one political party and our sworn enemy take the same positions regarding the US? What about when one political party and our sworn enemy use the same rhetoric to describe the US, and it's military? What about when leaders of one political party go to our enemy and issue damning statements about the US and its President?
I can find only one party - the democrats that engage in this behavior.

I'm sorry, but I will no longer issue the obligatory "but they have the best intentions" argument when discussing thier foul and corroded 'patriotic' statements. They shall be forced live or die on thier ideas and actons in this very difficult time. There will be a reckoning on this, and one side or the other will come out on top. If our side prevails, the dems are finished for a generation (at least). If the dems prevail, the country will be forever altered.
This fight is not about the war - it's about the aquisiton of power. Again you say that the base and the leadership are not the party. Well then who is? I understand there are many who still see the democrats as a party of Truman and JFK. But that party is long dead - they would be Republican today based on their own political statements. Today it is the party of pelosi, kos, reid, kennedy, schumer et.al. Those who vote for them, enable thier agenda. It's that simple.

They deserve no quarter and shall have none.

And there are plenty of things that individual Dems have done. There is no doubt that many are playing politics with the war.

I also do not believe the Reps are entirely innocent.

Again, what most are doing here is finding the worst and attributing that to the party. You only lose credibility doing that.

"The nine most dangerous words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'"

Ronald Reagan

www.proprietornation.blogspot.com

This diary was promoted to the Kos front page, it is basically representing Daily Kos and the core of the Democratic Party. If you look at the recommendations, a few hundred Kossacks supported it by voting.

Also, if one reads the comments, much worse is said and recommended. For example, the Kossacks are very worried what our country's reaction would be if OBL killed a 100,000 of us with a WMD. I say again, the left wing fear would be how WE would react if 100,000 American civilians were murdered.

I know this is a friendly blog, and we try to stay above the pettiness, but it is comming VERY close to the time when we must aknowledge the utter vileness of the MAJORITY of the left wing base. If you question this, then you are just not reading what they are writing or listening to what they are shouting.

Molon Labe!

On Kos. Kos is not the Democratic party.

"The nine most dangerous words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'"

Ronald Reagan

www.proprietornation.blogspot.com

the bulk of the Dem party--it's just the squeaky wheel syndrome part of the party, unfortunately. I live in a predominantly Dem
county, yet these are conservative people who support the military, work hard, raise families, don't support gay marriage or abortion as a solution to birth control--they are traditional Dems who vote the way they do because their parents and grandparents did. Yet they would be horrified if they thought they were a part of Code Pink or that Cindy Sheehan spoke for them. Someone needs to wake them up, but it will have to be their own party who does it.

"the left-wing base?" Are you saying that bunch is the base of the Democrat party? Dkos is unquestionably littered with raving lunatics who say the most outrageous, disgusting things. But I would hardly say that they are indicative of the mainstream of the Democrats, any more than the RonPaul™ acolytes are the mainstream of the GOP. Not to give too much credit to the mental makeup of liberals, but if you are equating Dkos nutjobs = mainline Dems, I think that's going a little far. But maybe I misunderstand what you're saying...

There's a pretty wide gap between plain stupidity and gross insanity. That's how I'd portray the gap between "mainline Democrats" and the whack jobs on Dkos.

I AM saying this! In fact I was very clear about what I am saying. I said Daily Kos thinking IS reflective of the MAJORITY of the left wing BASE of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY. What I did NOT say was the average job Blue Dog Democrat thinks this way. I would be most Democrats do not even go to political blogs.

The fact remains that Daily Kos is a major part of the Democratic lefty base. Democratic leaders go to that site when they have something to say to the base. Democratic leaders go to Daily Kos, Moveon, etc when they want MONEY and SUPPORT. These Democratic leaders and presidential candidates flocked to Yearly Kos, and they post regularly on the site.

I am wondering what you are trying to say. One minute I am to your left, next to your right, I guess we just can't ever agree :)

Molon Labe!

Some people are just fun to joust with, eh? :-)

I was simply trying to make sure I didn't misunderstand you this time. There was no accusation intended, and I hope you realize that. You are perfectly within your right to hold that opinion, and I'm sure you're not the only one who does. I guess I'm just a bit more willing to give the benefit of the doubt to "the base", which I suppose I define somewhat more differently than you. Moe's differentiation of "leadership" as "the base" versus the "mom and pop Dems" is an interesting way to look at it.

no anger hear, we should vet our thoughts and be able to defend them. As far as left wingers not being the base we may just disagree on that. I made this post BECAUSE I have had a change of heart.

In the past I would have assumed the lunatic fringe was much smaller and not part of the "silent majority" even of Democrats, but I just think that has changed.

We have been waiting a long time for a significant percentage of Democrats to turn against this radical element.

Now Molon Labe!

Power of Kos need only do a quick check of the ad rates for the sitè 100K per month for the premium ad. Clearly the sitè has plenty of followers. Still the Dems are a lot more than Kos and most do not even know about the site. They are no doubt a growing influence but the party has a lot of sin groups and most reject this.

"The nine most dangerous words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'"

Ronald Reagan

www.proprietornation.blogspot.com

If you look at it from the Dem leadership perspective, you certainly do have a good case, considering how the Dem candidates all flocked to the YKos confab. There's not a much better way to voice your implicit approval of a hate group...and Hillary!™ and company certainly did that.

So, if you say "The wacko positions voiced on DKos are indicative of the base values of the Dem POTUS candidates", I'd say you are not far from the truth. If you said "The wacko positions voiced on DKos are indicative of the values of mainstream Dem voters" I'd argue that point, although (thankfully) I can't say as I spend a lot of time with run-of-the-mill Democrats.

Of a lot of people. It is a mischaracterization to say that they speak or represent the party. They are a segment and it is growing and more powerful everyday. They are not the Dems at large.

I agree that by debating in front of them they do give tacit approval to this sort of vile.

I think that it is much more important that this vile directed Reagan be indentified and condemned.

"The nine most dangerous words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'"

Ronald Reagan

www.proprietornation.blogspot.com

whether they're representative of the Democratic party apparatus. dKos is clearly not representative of, say, my mom and dad, who are both good Democrats (and good people); neither would they be representative of the couple that watched my son a couple of weeks ago, many of the people that I worked with, even a few of my local politicians...

But is dKos representative of the people that run the Democratic Party infrastructure? The people who man phone banks and lick envelopes; the ones who might actually be delegates to conventions? Well, that's a completely different question.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Molon Labe!

I think that it can be easy to forget that the average American voter isn't a policy-chewing, poll-popping fanatic who mainlines crosstabs. We're all just a little bit, ah, focussed here. :)

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

many are one issue voters, such as many union members. They vote for the guy (Democratic) their union tells them to vote for. Others have other reasons to vote Democratic. But make no mistake, the Kossacks are trying to purge moderate Democrats from the party. They have already turned against the "Blue Dogs".

Molon Labe!

and all other Democrats who consider themselves Americans first and Democrats second either have to re-assert control of the party(highly doubtful), or leave it. What is it going to take for them, and others like them, to awaken?

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

I do know that - bad VRWCer that I am - I am not going to push my aged parents into a confrontation with a Party that they still subconsciously associate with Harry S Truman. I just can't, man. They want to sit with their grandson on their front porch, and rock; they feel that they've paid their societal dues, and it's difficult to argue the point with a man who landed at Inchon.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

What drives me nuts are the Catholics, gun owning union guys and the Jews that have any affinity for the future of Israel that enable the baby killing, anti-gun, anti-Israel traditional America haters to run the Democrat Party.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

...Kos, et al don't necessarily represent the "Mainstream Democrat View" They are increasingly controlling what the dems conceive as Mainstream.

I think that's a bank shot that caroms off the media. Democratic politicians are often led astray when they believe the cheerleading that reporters generate for them. The politicians think that what they read in The New York Times is actual mainstream thinking in the United States... instead of the far-left horn-honking that it is.

I think the same thing is now happening to the reporters... they think that what they read on Kos is representative of Democratic voters (not least because The Kos Experience tells them what they want to hear). That validates their own leftist bias and pushes them even farther leftward in the belief that they are The Voice Of The People. When that starts popping out in AP stories and on CNN, the politicians think it's mainstream thinking.

That's a feedback loop that could go right over the cliff.

Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you're dead.