Redstate

,but the reality of the "peace protesters" makes the argument far better than I ever could.

We have to understand that there is a significant portion of our population that has been indoctrinated, from a very early age I might add, into believing that this is an evil country that was founded on greed and lies. American history has been perverted into a lopsided exercise in indoctrination. These Americans have been taught facts that are purposefully taken out of historical context, and compared to the society we live in today. Civics has been eliminated from the curriculum till college, and even then it is presented in a false light. The fact that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves is deemed more important than his life’s work save a few selected quotes that are twisted to support a “progressive” agenda.

These Americans have grown up in an education system that consciously teaches that our individual differences are more important than our similarities in the tapestry of America. They have been taught disunity and superficiality as if they were virtues.

They have been taught that tolerance does not really mean tolerance, but is rather a code word for complete acceptance of whatever pop-wisdom is in fashion. They have been taught that any beliefs they hold outside of the political agenda of secular/progressives is wrong and evil. They have been taught that morality is ignorant, and learned people do not judge the actions of others.

They have been taught that your beliefs and politics ought to make you feel good about yourself, and that feeling good about yourself is actually the point of this life.

We are dealing with and fighting against damaged goods. We allowed young and impressionable minds to be corrupted, and we still allow it. We were complicit by not being deadly clear with our children about life, but rather allowed slick salesmen to present a distorted view of life and our history that has led to it.

We spoiled our children, and not just in material things and wants, as is so often charged. Our greatest offense is allowing them to become intellectually and emotionally spoiled. We have allowed strangers to teach them that how they feel about themselves is more important that what they actually do, and what they actually stand for. We have let self esteem replace self reliance, and self worth replace accomplishment. We are now more concerned that they never fall down rather than caring about how they pick themselves up off the floor.

This is why we have these “peace protesters”. They are doing what “they believe is right”, or more accurately, they are doing what makes them feel good, exactly as they have been taught to do.

Supporting the ineloquent and foolish sounding Bush sometimes makes me wince! I know he is a good man and a strong leader, and I know that is what our country needs, but it is difficult sometimes. Supporting freedom in our economy sometimes makes me feel bad for the people who don’t thrive. I feel sorry for them, and this drives me to commit precious time and resources to charitable efforts.
Supporting our troops and supporting their mission makes me feel terrible. Many of them will die, and many more will be maimed for what we believe in, and I don’t feel good about it, but I know it’s right!

My politics does not make me feel “good” on any level other than speaking the truth, including human nature in my philosophy, and making the correct, tough decisions can make me feel confident and intelligent, but I don’t feel “good” about it.

These “peace protestors” don’t go through any of my agony. They have a ready made ideology that gives them instant gratification, and instant moral superiority. They feel so darned good about what they believe, because it’s just so quick and easy it has to be good. Don’t bother them with reality, because they believe they make their own, just as they’ve been taught.

No amount of reason will work with these people. We’re the bad guys from the get go, and they’re “speaking truth to power” (even though power is not going to smite them, as an authentic dissidents must contend with) by shouting it from the rooftops. See them for what they are, and work to make sure we stop mass producing these damaged human beings. It starts with what we teach our small children, so you had better pay attention.

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan

This is the truth that NO ONE in the media has talked about until now and it is the honest to God truth.

You cannot support the troops while telling them to retreat. To do so is nothing more than a mantra to garner votes and shore up their foriegn policy weakness.

I guess I don't understand something here...

so no one in America should

1) believe the Iraq war was a poorly chosen or ill-defined mission AND
2) voice those beliefs publicly AND
3) contine to feel and voice great respect for our brothers and sisters who have committed their all to serve their country?

Listen, I for one think we SHOULD be in Iraq, but I'm not a traitor to the democratic priniciples on which our country was founded, which include freedom for thought and freedom of expression.

It's irrelevant if someone has the "right" or "wrong" views about the war in Iraq. I may think war protesters are boneheads, but I'm glad they aren't shot for disagreeing publicly with our elected officials. Some say the war is an important mission to promote stability in the region, secure American interests, and liberate Iraqs from Saddam. Others say the mission has been unclear and changing from the start with no exit strategy or plan for "success." Two sides of a debate that crosses party lines. Great. Last I checked, this was still America and American democracy functions through the open exchange of different ideas and a voting public that puts into office servants to dispatch their vision for the country.

To suggest that I cannot support my brothers in arms (their dedication to country, bravery, & fighting skill) while publically questioning whether or not they were sent to the right battlefield is disgusting.

What, then, do you imply? That I cannot express an idea that diverges from the talking heads inside the beltway? Then why live in a democracy? Why not live in Iraq under a dictator like Saddam where people didn't have the FREEDOM to express divergent views. Who needs liberating, us or them?

I'm a republican, but I'm no sheep.

As for liberal ex's comments, your psychoanalysis of the motivations of the "peace protesters" misses something... the fact that you can't characterize the motivations of an entire group of people in one misinformed rant. Know thy enemy, ex. If you want to follow the lead of the talking heads and group our enemy into the category of "liberals" or "progressives" and dismiss them through your charicture, great, but don't expect anyone who is serious about reinvigorating the ideals and power of the republican party to listen. It's a bit more complex than "all those protesters are America-haters." We probably actually have many common goals with some of those protesters, but different beliefs in how we should achieve them. Better to understand specifically what we share, and where we differ, to best know how to defeat them at the polls.

neil

"We have to understand that there is a significant portion of our population that has been indoctrinated, from a very early age I might add, into believing that this is an evil country that was founded on greed and lies."

I especially appreciate the inference that me and my generational fellows can't be trusted to make political decisions for ourselves, that our opinions, views, and expieriences are somehow not valid or worth consideration because we're "damaged goods" our poor little minds have just been raped by those awful college professors. I do not think America is an ignoble or evil place. I love America and I hope to once again make it the "beacon on the hill" for all those who seek freedom, liberty, and love. Something that previous generations have failed to do.

But nor do I consider America a perfect place beyond fault. I do not believe that actions done in the name of the "national interest" are automatically absolved of any immoral taint. Men are inherently flawed and consequently many things built by men, governments, churches, etc. are flawed as well. I do not believe in the Iraq war because I do not believe it was carried out for the reasons given to us by our government, and that up to the present it has done more harm than good to both America and Iraq. I do believe that the oil companies love it, as evidenced by the big fat contracts many of them recently got to drill in Iraq, the first time in thirty years any outside forces have dominated that nation's oil supply.

Now if you will excuse me my warped, corrupted, young mind is growing bored and the Colbert Report is starting. But don't worry, its not like me and my peers are the future or anything.

Peace ya'll

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

That is definitely a great candidate for the golf clap.

Did I miss when our troops called for the protesters to be shot? Were we speaking in secret, right wing code when we posted the two comments before you? Where are you getting this from?

“To suggest that I cannot support my brothers in arms (their dedication to country, bravery, & fighting skill) while publically questioning whether or not they were sent to the right battlefield is disgusting.”

There was an open debate on the floor of Congress. Every elected representative had a chance to speak. WE, and I do mean WE, overwhelmingly voted to allow this President to GO TO WAR. One does not GO TO WAR, risk the best citizens among us, and plan to be defeated! If that is your plan than you had better vote against WAR! You had better speak up and speak loudly before our machines and men are rolling, because once they do we are in it to win it, and there is no retreat! A polititian or a civilian can just change their mind, but in the real world and on the battlefield people take other people trying to kill them personally, and they had best be vanquished before you leave (especially when they are a culture with an overdeveloped sense of vengance). You can’t just change your mind. At this point you have something called “duty”.

I hate former President Clinton. Really I do. I had to salute him once at Normandy France. I can’t say that I enjoyed it, but it was my duty and I didn’t complain. I hate him for a variety of good reasons, but I cannot tell you that the sum of my loathing is equal to his crimes and failings. It’s simply not, and my emotional feelings surpass anything he did, mostly because of how he dishonored the office and his country. I served under him, and followed his orders. Even when he ordered us to retreat. I did it because of his office, not because of him. I disagreed with many of his decisions, but once he made them and wrote the orders my focus was to carry them out regardless of how I felt about him personally. I think these people who claim to support the troops while doing everything in their power to defeat us simply do not have any concept of duty. I can’t find any other better explanation.

If “support” means any freaking thing you want it to mean I suppose you could interprate it that way, but if by support you mean something that will be mutually received then it is absolutely appropriate to question exactly what you mean by “support”, and if it means something that only serves yourself there is nothing wrong with our troops, or veterans, or anyone else rejecting that “support” roundly.

Serving in the military is just what it sounds like, service. While you may be able to find a few idiots who really don’t know what they’re getting themselves into, most young men and women know that it is dangerous, and pays far less than “The World’s Most Dangerous Jobs” on the Discovery Chanel. They don’t do it for pay or benefits, which I can assure you are paultry compared to what it takes out of you.

In the military we use words like honor, duty, courage, and commitment to describe who we are, and what we stand for. To us they are not merely words, but principals that we stake our lives upon. It may not seem that way while fighting for the man beside you, and many guys probably would be at a loss for words to describe it, but it is there underneath it all. For someone to protest our mission and then tell us that they support us, is ridiculous. Keep your friggin support. We don’t want it and don’t need it. “I support the troops”, becomes a canard you tell youself to make YOU feel better about trying to defeat our military without insulting anyone, and it’s really nothing more than the other edge of political correctness. It is not fasionable to spit on our troops at the moment, and not politically expedient for causing an American retreat, but the sentament is there for all to see.

“Exit Stratedgy” is nothing more than a euphamism for retreat. You won’t find it anywhere in military cirriculum because retreating is what the enemy does. We call it a tactical retreat or a ruse that is designed to draw the enemy into a trap. It is not a stratedgy for victory when civilians order it on a mass scale. Pretending that ordering everyone home is what our troops want may make you feel better about it, but in terms of “supporting” them and what they risk their lives for it is a slap in their faces. Have you ever heard the phrase, “Don’t pizz down my back and tell me it’s ranin’”?

The military is not monolithic, and there are bound to be plenty of people who appreciate that you admire their skill and dedication, but to assume that this equals “support” for most of them is insulting. A groupie like admiration is not the same thing as sharing common goals and beliefs, which is clearly what is at issue here. I admire many people that I do not support, because the two are not the same thing.

I critisize the honesty of people who say they support other people with whom they completely disagree. It’s pathologic, and leaves plenty of room for scorn. I’m happy to disgust you. I hope we all do. Killin’ people and breakin’ things is what our military spends most of its time training to do, and for a pacifist to hate that and all the people who volunteer to do it is fairly elementary, and expected to be sure. For that same pacisist to then turn around and say they “support” all the very same people is nothing more than a fool trying to create his or her own reality, and while it may be gratifying on a personal level, it means absolutely NOTHING in our common, shared reality.

Since when has there been a law saying you have to “support the troops”? You don’t, you are free to scorn them and their mission with equal glee. Society may scorn you right back for it, but it’s not illegal, and the government won’t sanction you for it. Your freedoms to say whatever you want are secure, and my freedom to call you on it is also secure. The Republic's workin’ just fine, thank you very much!

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan

The only thing of significance about this story is it finally got reported. I also note that it got reported far away from any conceivable election cycle.

Veritas magna est et praevalet.

Htown, That is so very rich! Your grasp of the ridiculous and ironic must have been honed to a fine edge by Mr. Colbert! I could never come up with a proxy of ignorance and arrogance as perfect that. I simply lack the creativity.

I am quite capable of taking constructive criticism, even if it is of the country that I love. That is, the country that I love the way it is in reality, faults and all, and not the one in my mind that I made up in a fairytale to make myself feel good, and at the peril of any actual future advancement and refinement we can make. You see, we are living in freedom realized, and the covenant with our fathers and their fathers fulfilled. No one is oppressing you, and if you don’t believe it I can show you the contrast between an actual authoritarian or totalitarian system and our and prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

At this point we’re tweaking it son. You are not going to free us. We are already free, and if you see big change ahead, and plan on fulfilling the promise of some mythical socialist paradise you are going to destroy it, I can assure you. Sweeping change in this country will not be for the better. It cannot be for the better, because we are just humans. It will not augment an already tried and true balance of freedom and responsibility. You can tear what was built down, but you are not going to remake it to conform to your ideal of purity and paradise. That is a path that is well worn, and history tells us exactly where it leads.

Oh, to take you to all the places I’ve been that are not on your list of vacation destinations!

Ignorant to a fault, and absolutely certain of your superiority and vaulted place in our society! I was young like you once, and I probably said the same things.

I absolutely adore it! A couple of weeks in Achance’s house would do you some good. He seems a sensitive and caring type. I doubt you’d make it across my small lawn.

My world is full of hope, but completely stripped of fantasy and self importance. Today I say thank you to people quite a bit (even the ones I disagree with), and thank you to God even more. I may greet groups of self important imbeciles with scorn and anger, but I meet people with a wide grin and an open hand, because the people in this amazing nation are good people as a rule. I appreciate what I have like you wouldn’t believe, but then I have a lot to compare it to, and you have virtually nothing.

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan

If you won't say that my generation is doomed to fail because we're brainwashed. (Where'd you get that from anyway? O'Reilly, Hannity? My money's on Rush)

See ya in the nursing home, gramps. Remember to take your pills :)

Considering the point of the original post, which seemed to my indoctrinated eyes to be "if you can't say something nice about the war don't say anything at all"

Say whatever you want to, and I’ll correct you free of charge. It’s like a service I’ve decided to give you because you are “our future”.

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan

I remember back in the Red State of yore, which just had green text on a black screen, young whippersnappers like yourself would find themslves on The Pile. But do you appreciate the modern world? Noooo.

I completely agree with the sentiment the troops are expressing. They've given so much for this country and get so very little in return. Actually, it would, in a manner of speaking, be BETTER if they got nothing in return, rather than the negativity they receive from the oh-so-sophisticated intelligencia.

My grandfather was shot down over the Pacific during WWII and floated for nearly a day before being rescued, clutching to the pilot the entire time to make sure the pilot did not drown due to the injuries he sustained. He was justly honored for his actions and his service.

My father volunteered for the Marines when he turned 18 and served seventeen months in Vietnam. A mortar exploded near him, sending shrapnel into his leg, knee, thigh and stomach and he nearly died due to blood loss. As platoon leader, he was well respected and recommended for a Purple Heart. He declined the award, saying that his wounds were superficial, especially in light of the fact that many of his brothers in arms would never return home. For his service, he was one of those soldiers who was spit upon (happened twice) when he returned home, and was called a baby killer on numerous occasions. I cannot fathom that we are really heading down that road once more.

My father and grandfather are certainly not unique; they epitomize the self-less nature and heroism of the soldiers fighting for their country today. And I am damn proud of them and respect them more than I can put into words.