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Why not just call for burning him at the stake? Or a firing squad.

August is the cruelest month? Sometimes I think he takes August off to give his opponents an opportunity to go berserk.

Don't even give him one bite, if you ask me.

"As a true Christian Conservative"

I'm calling moby, a "true Christian Conservative" would never use this phrase. Next time don't use it, I see from your previous diary (no comments just 2 diaries) that you used the phrase "As a true Christian". So tell me, as a "true Christian" what makes you the arbiter of those who are "true" and those who are not, your judgment in this area would be most helpful? Are you a sinner? Can you please provide the rest of us with a list of who is a and who is not a "true Christian"?

You all wish I was a Bush Hater, blah, blah, blah...just happen to be an honest person.  I know that's rare on these blogs...

I see from the polls that views like the ones you've outlined above are held by almost 34% of the electorate. It must be frustrating as all-getout to be in possession of such obvious truth, only to have two-thirds of your countrymen dismiss it as the ravings of crackpots. Or even worse, as treasonous swill from self-loathing head cases.

I don't know what I'd do if I were in your shoes. This guy Bush just won re-election in November... he's gonna be around another three years, setting policy and doing stuff that's just gonna drive you nuts.

Have you thought about moving to Canada? How about France?

If you want to stick it out here, I would understand. But it's going to be a rough three years for you. Maybe a rough seven years. Heck, maybe you'll still be tearing your hair out in frustration — assuming you'll have any left — eleven years from now. Go Chelsea, eh commodre?

Anyway, thanks for the head-dump. We appreciate it.

See I'm a fairweather Bush fan.  I voted against him twice in 2000 and reluctantly for him in 2004 mainly due to the outrageousness of the left.  I was open to a Lieberman and considered a Libertarian vote.  I'm no big Bush fan.

But comments like this: "He is surrounded by evil men such as Karl Rove and Dick Cheney.  Liars such as Condi Rice, Andrew Card, Dick Rumsfield, etc." don't do much for your credibility.

"evil men"... "liars"... no evidence.

Not worth my time.

You are basing your criticism of President Bush and his administration on a report on the Iraq War that appeared in the mainstream media?  Do you not understand that the MSM is only showing the negative aspects of the war (namely the losses of life), while conveniently never mentioning all of the positive things the war has accomplished?  It is indeed tragic whenever anyone is killed defending this country's freedom, but that doesn't mean that the war is wrong or immoral or without legitimate purpose.

While I do not wish to engage in the sort of mean-spirited talk that you have, I will say that I have never believed that it was the role of any Christian (conservative, moderate or liberal) to tell another Christian that they are "a Christian in name only," which you seem to be implying about our great president.  I truly hope that you are not implying that to be a true Christian you must be against the Iraq War, and I do not believe that you intended for it to sound that way.

I guess that my main point here is that when you write things like that about the religious faith of others, or what you perceive to be a lack thereof, you can be very hurtful.  I am a Christian as well, and I continue to be a supporter of President George W. Bush and the War in Iraq.  However, I recognize your right to have a different opinion of the president, the war, or any other topic.  That's part of what living in a free and democratic republic founded upon Judeo-Christian ethics is all about.  

You guys believe what you want to believe...but I do believe you know the truth.  I'm not going to be a puppet and follow the party line because my party is in power.  Don't give me information about the mainstream media, etc.  Give me a break.  That's the internet blog, talk radio nonsense.  I'm smarter to research information on my own.   If you still want to believe this President did not lie to go to war, then so be it. However, don't criticize those of us who have finally awaken and realized it was a lie.  The left and the right are so blind because they are so selfish in what they believe, that the truth eludes them.  For you guys to throw out talking points in your defense of my diary is so pathetic.  I have listen to Rush and Hannity, so I know all those, so please don't repeat them.  Do you people even care that 2000 people have died in Iraq?  Sad

are we allowing such tripe to stand on this site?  God knows there's plenty of room for him over on dkos.  Every other entry over there is a rant like this.  

Why waste our bandwidth on it?  Are ya'll just bored and wanting to have some humor or what?

"Do you people even care that 2000 people have died in Iraq?"

My husband has brought many of them home, so yeah, I care.  I also care about the millions of Iraqis and Afghanis that will be able to have some say in their destiny because of the sacrifice of those 2,000 that were willing to stay the course, even when things got tough.

If you want to wimp out on the cause, more power to ya.  Just don't expect much rational company in the fever swamps.

cuz everyone knows that you aren't who you claimed to be.

What is so great about this President?  That's what scares me when you start calling him great, etc.  As a Christian, you understand that man is flawed that's why God instructs us to pray for my fellow human being.  Of course I still love George W. Bush, it's my duty...but I will not worship him.  If I sounded hateful, was not intended.  But for people to defend the people who have sinned with lies is not acceptable.  The Bible clearly states " you reap what you sow".  No longer will I be a hypocrite.  I will not go to hell for anyone.  If other Christians want to repeat what they know were lies, then that is between them and God.

Not mad my brother, just saved.

"I will not go to hell for anyone."

interesting phrase for "a true Christian"

Are REPUBLICANS allowed to disagree with this President at all?  Is this a cult?  C'mon now...

Sometimes in my paranoia-addled mind, I wonder if obvious Mobys like this aren't actually triple agents-- designed to shame us left-of-center types here into jumping over to the dark side.  

"See how stupid it looks to say 'Bush lied' over and over again, and note the absence of any intelligent analysis.  Yes, that's it... just a little closer."

you've done well to avoid my points and attack straw man so far.

I quoted what I found objectionable.  And unless you have some evidence as to your "evil men" and "liars" accusations, I'd encourage you to retract them.

Your time here is limited if you persist in making baseless accusations.

Disagree with the President, sure.  I do.  Often and on the front page.  Schiavo, FMA, and pork has all gone beyond my liking.

But I do not call men evil without justification.  So don't entangle the two.  You're on the ropes for your accusations not because of your disagreement with the President.

Well done - funny and snarky at the same time - brought a badly needed smile to my face upon reaching the bottom of this appalling lack of bandwidth.

This knucklehead does a gross disservice to Mobys, and that's saying something.

Cheers.

it'll hurt :)

triple-agents, huh? what if he was a quadruple-agent (quintuple?)

{head explodes}

That should be "appalling waste of bandwidth" of course.

"Preview" is your friend.

How about the connection between between Saddam and Osama?  How about making the intelligence coincide with their reasoning for going to war?  How about labeling everyone who against the war non-supportive of the US Troops.  It's evil for people like Colin Powell, George Tenet, Scott Ritter, etc. to be crucified for not getting in line to continue the lie or exposing the lie.  I'm not going to play games with you Adam or anyone else and do a Rush with you.  It's evil when in your heart you will do whatever it takes to remain in power to make yourself or people who agree with you to look good, no matter who you destroy.  That's Karl Rove.  And unfortunately it is his style of politics.  Effective, but nonetheless sadistic.  I don't play with God and I don't get played.

"Do you people even care that 2000 people have died in Iraq?"

Funny: every conservative I know who discusses this war in a thoughtful manner is deeply aware of both American and Iraqi deaths.  Certainly aware enough to not casually say something so incredibly insensitive as to even tacitly suggest that the latter are not quite real, somehow.

And this is why the Moby tactic is doomed from the start, oh ye Left-leaners: it is doomed because those devoted to it are not imitating Righties.  They are imitating what they think are Righties; and it is usually the matter of a moment for real Righties to tell the difference.  We know what we sound like; we also know what our authentic fringe sounds like - and we know to quickly jump on fakes with both feet.  Which makes us look like better people, and the Mobys look like twits.

Here endeth the lesson.

Moe

"It's evil when in your heart you will do whatever it takes to remain in power to make yourself or people who agree with you to look good, no matter who you destroy."

But you still have given 0 evidence that this describes anyone in the administration.  You may think it does, but without evidence you are wasting our bandwidth to push your random, unsupported ideas.

I don't remember the President linking Osama and Saddam, could you link to the quote?  Ditto on the non-support of US troops idea?

You seem to be regurgatating talking points rather than adding any value to the discussion.  Please link to these quotes and any evidence you have to back up your opinion.

Otherwise, I must say that the "evil" and "liars" contentions are outside the pale for our site.

I don't ban people from RedState.  Well, maybe once or twice a year.  My view is that you have a right to say things, even though I may disagreement, so long as you are respectful.  But, it is my pleasure to add you to The Pile.

He is surrounded by evil men such as Karl Rove and Dick Cheney.  Liars such as Condi Rice, Andrew Card, Dick Rumsfield, etc.

Calling Cheney and Rove "evil" and calling Rice, Card, and Rumsfeld "liars" crosses the line.  We are a Republican site.  You can disagree with them and tell us why, but picking up the placards of the left to hurl invective at the right only gets you tossed out of here in my book.

Banned!

Colin Powell has made quite a nice life for himself, despite his apparent 'crucifixtion'.  He served, admirably, as SecState for four years and left office not in a body bag but in a SUV.  He's now doing whatever it is that 'consultants' do and has put in a bid for the Washington Nationals.

George Tenet received a Presidential Medal of Freedom after stepping down as DCI and is now another 'consultant' and far from living on the streets of suburban Washington.

I don't know that I'd put Scott Ritter (who was he again? Oh yeah, the pedophile) in the same category of these two august individuals, but he too is also alive despite his apparent crucifixtion.

Bush's apparent 'crime' is believing the information that the international intelligence community gave to him.  George Tenet presented it as a slam dunk.  Colin Powell reviewed it and agreed with it (as did Blair, Aznar, Chirac, the Clintons, Kerry, Biden, McCain, and so many others) and took action on it.

The belief that Bush, or Cheney or Rove, had some overwhelming control over the intelligence apparatus for the better part of a decade before they came into office defies logic.

The Senate report has shown that there was no cooking of the data.  The DSM, if that is your source, shows just how important the understanding of language is.  'Fixed around' is different to British English than it is to American English.  Just as 'knock her up in the morning' has different meaning in the two countries.

another reason for me to add to the list "Why I hate the month of August."  The news is super slow, and the Left seems to churn out more invective.  Not to mention the domination of the "missing persons" news coverage.

I don't remember the President linking Osama and Saddam, could you link to the quote?

George W Bush, responding to the 9/11 Commission findings, quoted in this BBC News report:

The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al-Qaeda is because there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda

From the 2003 SOTU address:

Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda.

There's more if you want to go look.  Lots more if you want to include Cheney, Powell, and others.

For the record, I have absolutely no interest in revisiting the merits of the various causus belli cited for going to war in Iraq here on RS.  I've had my say, folks here are not likely to have their opinions budged a fraction of an inch, and that horse is out of the barn in any case.  

However, the public record is what it is, and should be respected as such.

Cheers -

Amos, I am quite aware of both the allegations of contact and cooperation between Iraq and Al Queda as as well as the documentation of when they did meet according to the 9/11 report.

What I see no evidence of is anyone claiming that Saddam and Osama got together in some kind of Anti-America festival of the slaughterers.

I respect the public record and I severely dislike people who come here and exaggerate bit by bit until the past is twisted.  No one put Saddam and Osama together.  They knew Iraq and Al Queda had had dealings which is a very different contention.

Dear friends,

 I am new to redstate.org, and wish to thank you for allowing me to participate. I have some thoughts on what I have just read.

 I am a Republican of the "old school". Some would call this school the Rockefeller/Eisenhower wing of the GOP (ours is a dying wing, but i am willing to keep the flame burning). This war makes my stomach turn like many others here (due to all the errors made in the prosecution of it all). I had a nephew of mine do a tour of duty there and he saw a buddy of his get tatooed by a mortar blast a day before he was to leave for America. I have shed tears over all the waste of life and limb, and am apalled by the cold-bloodedness of it all.

 Having said this, I cannot bring myself to say cut and run (not yet). As for the insurgents i shout to all Americans that we should give them nothing but the Black Flag, and to quote Stonewall Jackson after witnessing the all the destruction left by the Union Army at Fredricksburg in late 1862, "Kill them! Kill them all!"

 I voted for Kerry as a protest to all that has happened in Iraq, but the Left's assertion that we leave now (no matter the cost) borders on insanity. I will try to lift your spirits somewhat by quoting Thomas Paine:

 "These are times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will in this crisis, shrink from the service of thier country; but He that stands it now deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny like Hell, is not easily conquered, yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the sacrifice, the more glorious the triumph."

 I hope this helps, and thank you for letting me post a few words. I look forward to participating and engaging in discussion.

 -Serge Thomas

So, are you a sellout or just a guilt-ridden liberal who these many years mistakenly believed himself to be a conservative?

It's weak-kneed bedwetters like you...ah, but I digress.

Ah, the Rockefeller/Eisenhower wing of the GOP. If there's anything the rest of us can do to speed your wing's demise, please let us know.

As with all newcomers who announce their arrival, I recommend to you this diary with tips and etiquette for RedState.

Dissenting views are welcome as long as they are done with respect.  Your first post seems to do that well.  I disagree with in some parts, but you seem sincere and respectful.

Welcome to RedState.

 Dear Vadum

 just when i thought i was among friends.. lol:), oh well... touche (you got me, lol) I just hope that the last words of my original posting will give inspiration to all those feeling the heat of a bad August in Iraq.. despite all this i cannot say cut and run.

 As for the Rockefeller/Eisenhower wing, so long as the spirit of Abraham Lincoln (i had ancestors-former slaves- fight for the Union) is alive and well I will never leave the party. Thanks for the invite, but i'll sit and watch the matinee..

Keep it polite and you can disagree like mad. (You can agree if you like, too.)

Decent comment, in other words. Wrong, but decent.

Please stop rehashing the title of a trolling diary as your comment title. You can be witty or matter of fact, but try to connect the title to your post if at all possible.

Scoop, our operating program, can be a tad odd to get used to at times.

Vadum,

 I am neither, just another Republican trying to make sense of the madness that grips the Left in this country (Why do I bother), and trying to understand what the right is all about.. that's all

 

Thank you for the info. I will keep this in mind when posting comments. Being new to this and all I guess i am a little nervous.

I spent a lot of time, er, experimenting before it made sense to me.

 

 I think I should take some time to introduce myself to you all:

 I am a 30 year old graduate student at The University of Akron (Ohio). I am the son of life long New Deal Democrat Black American parents. Both my parents worked hard to have the American Dream be in reach for me and my younger sister, went to church, and actively participated in the Civil Rights Movement. Also, my father (May the Lord be with him- he passed on in 1992)was a World War II veteran. He belived in the use of force (overwhelming force that is), and taught me from boyhood to always respect this country and its military. In that sense this makes me conservative. The "liberalism" in me comes from my grandmother. She was born in Alabama, and is a daughter of the segregated South. She told me that i should never forget about those less fortunate than me and to help them out where I can. To the men and women of her generation, Franklin Roosevelt was a man that cared for them. If it wasn't for the GI Bill, my father would have never gone off to college after the war. This was the Democratic Party that they remember and loved.

 I will say that the Democratic Party of today is a joke. My father would feel disgraced by this party. Thier hatred faith, values and service to the country sickens me (the far left wing has crippled them like nothing else). But what really gets me is that they think that the Black vote is ALL THIERS ! This i cannot stand. I understand what Ronald Reagan said when he said that the Democratic Party left him. I am right there with him.

 In short, I am no sellout to anything! Whom or what can I betray? I believe in the tennets of the GOP- personal responsibility, low taxes and balanced budgets. Also, a strong military. Therefore what the Left says about getting out of Iraq and "give peace a chance" (to quote John Lennon) is wrong? How can you have peace when the man nearest you wants to hit you with a mailed fist?

 No sir, i have no guilt for where i stand, and am willing to die for this country. The question I have for today's liberals is this: IF You are not willing to preserve this way of life that the sons of frontiersman and sons of slaves made for us, then what are you willing to die for?

 Serge Thomas

With respect, I find that a distinction without difference.  I am, however, not only happy, but eager, to leave it at that.

Cheers -

 

I will make a good effort to properly punctiate my sentences next time. I was remembering all the good times and lessons that my family taught me when I originally wrote this. I hope what I posted makes some sense.

If we went after folks for their spelling and punctuation on a regular basis, we'd all be banned by now.

 Seems like i have that Kerry-esque tendency to overexplain things.. time to rein it in (lol):)

I think I'm going to like having you around.  I'd recommend you drop the allegance to Rockfellerism so as not to mislead those who are predisposed to dislike that wing of the party.  Your actual views seem right in line with most of the party.  As a former swing voter myself, I definitely understand the frustration with the left.  I can't in good conscious vote for them right now.  Maybe in the future, but not right now.  So I'm left to mold the Republican Party to the extent I can.

"i should never forget about those less fortunate than me and to help them out where I can"

I hope this "liberalism" exists in Republican circles as well.  And in my experience it does.  The difference is the means, not the ends.  School choice, faith-based initiatives, civil society, church volunteerism, and private charity as opposed to governmental dependency programs are the preferred Republican solutions.  And they are both more efficient and better at creating communities in my opinion.  If Republicans ever start to leave those less fortunate behind, they will lose my respect as fast as the left has.

Quick Scoop pointer.

In each thread you can either "Post a Comment" which starts a new branch of comments or you can "Reply to This" on each comment which continues a branch.  When you are replying to an individual comment, use the "Reply to This" button on the bottom of the original comment.

Some of these things are just quirks in the Scoop format.  You get used to them with practice.

A word about myself: I'm neither a democrat nor a republican, and in truth I believe people who unquestioningly follow either party are merely sheep.  My views and opinions on most issues run the gamut from "right" to far "left".

Like Rooseveltrepublican I am contributing this evening for the first time.  I hope you'll make me welcome.

As for G.W. Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, I think time will tell -- but the Bushies have clearly made several serious mistakes from which we may never recover.  I don't believe history will judge him kindly.      

As I do with all who announce their arrival, I recommend this tips and etiquette page.  And make sure to see the posting rules and the FAQs.

We welcome all readers and comments but we ask that you consider yourself in a Republican home.  We pay to keep the place going, so it is our home.  Be as respectful as you would in someone else's home and you're fine.  And don't test the NO PROFANITY rule.  It's pretty solid.

Otherwise, we welcome differing views.  And we have many indies and almost no one agrees with the party on everything.  Some are more conservative, others more liberal, etc.  But most recognize that Republicans are preferable to Democrats in most (if not all) situations at present.

I appreciate the tips.  Not to worry; I'm just a pussycat -- as well behaved as your average red-state conservative, anyway.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood vadum's comments.  They were directed towards strongwilled, the creator of this thread/diary.

You most certainly are not a sell out, but I'm not certain whether or not you really fit the bill of a Rockefeller Republican, in your description of yourself, I'd say you're more conservative than you give yourself credit for.

Anyways, just trying to help someone new around on the site.

This is Item 4 on the background info on Al Qaeda from the 1998 Justice Department indictment of Osama Bin Laden presented to the United States Southern District Court of New York:

Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezballah for the purpose of working together against their perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States. In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.

So, did the Clinton Administration lie here?

Martin -

My reply to Adam was purely and solely to contest what I took to be his claim that Bush had never publicly associated Osama and/or Al Qaeda and Hussein.

I have absolutely, positively zero interest in revisiting or reliving the sorry peeing contest that characterized the runup to the war, and you absolutely, positively will not succeed in drawing me out on it.

Cheers -

Been there, done that, and my head's still sore.

Plus, for good or ill, there's always some new source of red meat to wrestle for.

I am beginning to be won over to what I take to be your view, expressed some time ago, concerning the role of contentious dispute as the engine of good policy.  Regarding the topic at hand, however, I believe it's been done to death.  There may be some heat left in that fire, but I doubt there's any more light.

Cheers -