Redstate

I don't see anything in it that is "glorifying" Hinzman.

It seems to me that "treating him as a pariah" would only serve as the biased type of reporting you are complaining about, albeit with a bias that you would choose to support in this case.

In either case, glorifying or vilifying him (and others) is sport for the op-ed pages, not straight reporting.

Hinzman's situation is being reported on because his case is about to be decided and will have ramifications for others seeking similar protection in Canada. The writer then goes on to enumerate the various instances of people seeking to be released from the military and their reasons, all of which is factual and verifiable.

It simply reported "more people are trying to get out now that 5 years ago," hardly a shock since there is actual service required now. But where in the article does the reported even remotely support or agree with those who have run to Canada?

The fact that the article was even published is glorfying people like Hinzman.  The AP would apparently have us believe that most of our troops are desperate to flee the military, which simply isn't the case.

The bottom line is that even if it was true--which it isn't--people don't need to be reading this stuff.  If support for the war has eroded, it's because of the frontal assault the press has taken against the war and the White House.

That people are applying for conscientious objector status, or that people are contesting the military's right to extend their service?

I also question the assertion that support for the war has eroded because of the MSM. In the case of the people in this article, it would seem their support has been eroded by something which has occurred within the context of their actual service, not by the opinions of the press.

I'll bet that most Americans won't have much sympathy for Hinzman.  He signed on the dotted line, then bugged out when the cannons started firing in the distance.  I'll bet the majority of Americans won't look kindly on that.  

What the Army needs to do is stick to its guns.  If Hinzman, or other deserters, try to return to the USA, they must be jailed.  We owe them a fair trial, and if there is reasonable doubt in some cases, then of course they should go free.  But, charging America with waging war to make fat cats fatter is not a defense for desertion--it's a wish for a long, long sentence.

Let the MSM run articles like this one.  If they're trying to generate sympathy for draft dodgers...well, articles like this one, IMO, will generate mostly contempt for the shirkers who fled north.  Conservative commenters (e.g., WSJ, FoxNews, CaptainsQuarters, Powerline, and the mighty Editors of Redstate) can take articles like this one and fisk them to shreds.

This is the best the MSM has?  Bring it,then!

facilitated by the poor press coverage the war has received, is one of the reasons that stoploss has been used so frequently.  The professed intention of many of the 'counter-recruiters' is to break the Army by forcing them to resort to such actions to maintain troop strength.  Thankfully the recruiting decline seems to have been arrested and retention remains high, but you cannot blame the military for doing what it takes to accomplish what they are asked to accomplish.  Additionally, every enlisted soldier who signs up does so for eight years.  Period.  This is repeated at least a dozen times before the contract is signed.  There are thousands of soldiers who don't want to go to the Gulf, but they get on that plane and they do what is asked of them.  People like Hinzman do a disservice to the 'Hooah!' types but they do a still greater one to those reluctant soldiers who do their jobs in spite of their reluctance.  

The decline in new recruits is almost solely found in the Army support units. None of the other services - in particular, the combat forces - have experienced problems.

As an aside, I have no problem helping to pay for these recruitment incentives and retention incentives. I have always thought that our military was woefully underpaid.

"His is among increasing numbers of men and women in uniform seeking to get out...."

"...about 110 soldiers filed the complex paperwork in 2004,"

If we have a million  and a half man military, that means one out of every fifteen thousand soldiers in the military has filed that complex paperwork to get out of the military, because they object to the war. A fraction of a percent.

"Perhaps I made a mistake by enlisting in the Army, but the U.S. is putting the lives of its soldiers in jeopardy in order to line the pockets of big money," he said.

Yeah, you probably shouldn't join the military if you are against that whole soldiering thing.

"line the pockets of big money"?

Is that a new liberal nickname for capitalists? Or is he is just mis-regurgitating some propaganda he heard?

...that deserting has earned this guy a forum that soldiers fighting for the freedom of mor ethan 50 million people can't get access to!!!!

This guy's story is a minor curiousity of the one paragraph variety.  Instead, his anti-war pablum has been blasted to EVERY NEWS ORGANIZATION that subscribes to AP -- that is, pretty much all of them.

Bottom line:  No quote.  He's a criminal.

Talking about how true or not true that story is misses the point entirely.

Now matter how you cut it, this idiotarian is a yellow bellied coward. He pretends to have convictions. Let him stay in The Peoples Republic of Canada.

I think Nick's point is important. This is a blatant example of the MSM trying to undermine support for the war by implying that guys are going over the hill in increasing numbers when in fact 99.99% of them are honorably fulfilling their personal and contractual commitments to their Country.

When cowardice is made respectable, its followers are without number both from among the weak and the strong; it easily becomes a fashion.

ATTRIBUTION: Eric Hoffer (1902-1983), U.S. philosopher. The Passionate State of Mind, aph. 203 (1955).

Not bias with regards to this cowardly traitor but with regards to implying the numbers of deserters are high and growing.

Why would anyone apply for conscientious objector during peacetime?  Does the thought of waving a rifle offend you?  Why would such a person join the military in the first place?  I would think the numbers applying would be close to zero in 2000.

110 out of of millions is an insignificant numbers.  

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

The heroes are serving honorably regardless of their personal opinion on public policy. This yellow bastard did not abandon President Bush - he abandoned his squad.

What's not true?

That's not the issue. Lots of "true" things happen every day that the media choose to ignore. It is precisely their power to persuade us that certain things are "important" — by covering them — that is the point of this article.

There is no leftist cause, from Cindy Sheehan to this Canadian-wannabe, that does not get its horn blown by our so-called "journalists." In September, 3500 emergency room physicians marched on the Capitol to protest what's happening in our nation's emergency rooms. Not one word — not one word — in the media about this.  Yet here is some loser gone AWOL and the AP wants to make him famous and quote him to the effect that the war is all about lining Big Pockets. You call this reporting? I call it political advocacy under the color of journalism.  

" . . . about 110 soldiers filed the complex paperwork in 2004, about four times the number in 2000."

Mountain meet molehill.

A few weeks ago our local paper printed an editorial by one of The Nation's editors. He used his valuable inkspace to go on and on about a soldier somewhere who had committed suicide rather then be redeployed to Iraq. Ironically the same paper had a news story -- not an opinion piece, a news story -- about a local soldier who had been convicted of vehicular homicide and was begging the court to let him do his tour in Iraq before starting his prison sentence.

Funny I don't remember seeing the AP story covering that.

is that there's widespread resentment from our military that they're being forced to stay in Iraq.  This is something that the MSM has tried to stir up repeatedly, with little to no effect.

And yes, support for the war has eroded because of the MSM.  When people are constantly being bombarded with stories about alleged torture and alleged illegal spying, the less intelligent among them are going to overreact.

last Thursday, he ended his ceremony by repeating these words-

"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

He also repeated that he took this oath with out mental reservation or purpose of evasion.  And that he did so VOLUNTARILY.  Hear me on this one, service in the Armed Forces is VOLUNTARY.

It was a proud day for us all, yet the celebration was quick.  He's off to warmer temperatures today to take things to our troops serving our country admirably in foreign lands.

As for whiny boy in the news, let him go to Canada.  We don't need him here.  There are a million or so others who bravely have our backs.

Yeah, this story misses the big point -- It's hardly anybody, despite a war. So yes, the number of applicants for CO status has quadrupled since 2000 -- before we were fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. But it's still only 110 people, out of how many million serving in the military?

Nick, I do think you're hyperventilating a little. This story hardly represents the plumbing of a new low. It could have used more context, a few more voices, but it's not inaccurate.

The Chronicle's web version cut off the story at the bottom. Here's the version in The State of South Carolina.

More of the same.

upon the attachment of his shiny new oak leaves!

Does he still fly C-17s? Several years ago, when we began IOT&E on the B-2 at Whiteman, we took a short trip to Charleston to spend some time with their established test team (they began OT&E before we did) to learn how to do it right. We were very favorably impressed with their work, and I've wondered ever since if crews felt the same way about that aircraft as the test team did (they loved it).

Anyway, I'm wishing him good fortune and safety on his deployment.

I didn't say it was inaccurate. I said it's glorifying a selfish coward by giving him a voice and telling his tale of woe.

Down below, someone has provided a link to a longer version of the same story in another paper. That one includes the name of the place to call if you want to get out.

This isn't reporting. It's the AP getting out its bullhorn for yet another leftist cause. Here's an idea: Let's find a former soldier who's gone over the hill, quote him saying that the war is all about lining the pockets of Big Money, tell people that "a growing number" of soldiers are doing this, and even tell current soldiers whom to contact if they need help getting out. Yep, that's the AP for you. Good, honest, solid reporting with no agenda. Now you tell one.

He loves that jet.  We lived in Charleston when the very first one landed and he couldn't transition from the C-141 to the C-17 fast enough.  No offense to the tried and true Starlifter, but everybody wants to fly the new jet.

Luckily, because of his rank and position, his deployments are only a couple of weeks at a time, for now.

that a coward like this piece of s**t even gets 1 sentence in the MSM. He should be brought back in chains and put on public display for his cowardice. How could such a maggot infested bottom feeder he is. He completely dishonors the proud history of the Airborne. These units have distinguished themselves since WWII and have never stopped their HONORABLE service. This absolutely disgusts me that he would desert his squad and those soildiers that he swore to watch their backs. I am an honorably discharged VETERAN and am appalled at his cowardice. This waste of skin and bones does not deserve to be called a "man" and has no rights in this country any more. He knew full well what was being asked of him when he signed the contract and took the above mentioned oath. I know full well that the recruiters and the staff at the MEPS stations repeat over and over again the statement "Are you being pressured or are you wishing to escape prosecution?" and since I joined they even ask you on the paperwork "Are you a CO?". So the coward is a liar and a looser as well as a coward. He knew full well that he might have to enter into combat, especially when he "volunteered" for the Airborne. Their is no "draft" no matter what the defeatacrats say. So this coward will be this months defeatacrat of the month. This lousy two bit no good waste of human flesh deserves no lineacy or compassion. I believe he should be made an example of with the full weight of the UCMJ. He should be shot as a deserter that he is. In a time of "war", desertion can be punished by death. In all my years in the service of this great and proud country, There never was a deserter from my unit. Everyone was proud to be there. they knew the stakes and had no misgivings or reservations at all. They may not have completely agreed with the foreign policy but they did their duty and their service honorably without question. That is the Honor and duty I know that all of our great American Hero's believe. The only military to liberate and free "BILLIONS" of people on this planet. The only one. PERIOD. The only thing our country asks in return for this liberation and freedoms ------ A Place To Bury Our Dead.

If this coward would like to see true patriotism then he should take a tour through Arlington and then tell me he deserves all this attention. His kind make me ill. How can he deserve anything from this great country. I take back me earlier punishment, He should loose his citizenship because canada deserves the likes of his kind.

I think it was a crappy, lazy story about a deserter, which is not a new low, in my book. It's just another crappy, lazy story about a deserter. Never underestimate sloth as the key factor in bad reporting.

Another piece of context missing Mendoza left unexplored was Hinzman's status as a cause celebre for the anti-war left, as the reporter no doubt discovered -- or could have discovered -- through a simple Google search of his name.

Nor is he shy of promoting his cause, or rather, himself. The Guardian profiled Hinzman in February, 2004, and appeared on Pacifica's hard-left Democracy Now in December 2004. So assigned a story, Mendoza turned to a usual suspect and failed to provide adequate context -- again, lazy reporting. And crappy.

But not, IMO, an egregious example of anti-war bias. Just more of the same...and worth noting as such.

I wasn't sure what a C-17 is, so I Googled it. Over on the right is an ad:

C 17 For Sale

Low priced C 17

Huge Seclection!

www.eBay.com

Tell us how you really feel.

but I am still outraged, just wanted to get my hands around his neck for a few minutes. Therefore my fingers had a mind of their own. After all of my buddies that I have buried, I just get so emotional at these cowards. I served in spec ops and all of those times I buried a member of my unit, with no fanfare or special ceremonies, I might add. I knew that he knew that he was serving his country and had no regrets. If I could have them back and put this maggot in their place I would. I cannot to this day walk into Arlington without getting emotional. These brave American Heroes and the sacred ground that they paid for is Holy and Consecrated to their memory. My only regret is that I have aged to the point that I can no longer Volunteer again. And for this maggot to disgrace our Heroes like this, shows us the depths that the defeatacrats have sunken to.

Reading the AP piece made me think of an NYT story I read about a year ago. It was about Americans who were so disgusted with the 2004 elections that they were honestly going to move to CA. I won't say anything about the emigrants other than that I think the republic will get by just fine without them. At the end of the article the writer said that normal USA->CA emigration was about 7,000/yr. The writer never mentioned what the normal CA->USA emigration was. So I decided to look it up.

It's not an easy number to Google, and I no longer have the link, but I ran across the number 25,000 in a Canadian newspaper article about the large number of Canadian medical professionals emigrating to the US.

So even with the evil W in charge of America over three times as many Canadians wanted to come here as Americans who wanted to go there, out of a population base far less then a fifth the USA's.

I know very little about the program that allows foreign nationals to get US citizenship if they enlist in our armed forces. Is there a chance that some Canadian has made up for our loss of Jeremy Hinzman? If so can we give hime or her a medal?

There was a program that granted citizenship if they were honorably discharged after a full term in the military. A lot of people from the Phillipines joined the Navy directly from their country under this program. I can see it as a good program, however I do not know if it is still happening. I would doubt it, but it might. However, seeing as that many more want to come to this great country shows that maybe the grass is always greener, the farther north you go ;)

!$#^%&^&&@^!$&%^ coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...that deserting has earned this guy a forum that soldiers fighting for the freedom of mor ethan 50 million people can't get access to!!!!

Killing your wife and kids can get you access too... where is the outcry over the press pushing their pro-murder agenda?

Bottom line:  No quote.  He's a criminal.

Criminals get all the best press!

I won't say the story's not loaded, but they left in the 110 number.  If they really wanted to push an agenda, they'd have left it out and just said "quadrupled".  So much room for bias improvement...

What does that mean?

Try the coward in absentia for treason, desertion, et cetera.

Upon conviction, sentence him to death.

The Canucks will fall all over themselves to give him asylum at that point.

And then...have someone infiltrate Canada and carry out what the CIA called an "Executive Action" on him.

Make it extremely obvious that we did it.

Then ask the Canucks, "So whatcha gonna do about it? Who's yer daddy?"

The oath that you set out is the one used for enlisted personnel; the oath of office for commissioned officers differs is that one swears allegiance solely to the Constitution - it does not contain the language concerning obedience to the orders of superior officers and of the President.

Sounds good to me, would send a message to all the cowards that they will not get away with treason against this great country. I mean, the defeatacrats have already ruined our reputation, so why not!!!!!!!!!!!

I have noticed a rise in the MSM "stories" here, here, and here of disaffected troops.  Looks like the Dems and the MSM are altering their strategy of turning the public against the war and are concentrating on trying to work on those in or considering being in the military.

have someone infiltrate Canada and...

I'm sure you meant to say that we should send someone up there to smother him in love. Advocating violence is so against the rules. Seriously.

It's a little complicated.

On The Simpsons, the movie character McBain shouts this, the name of the villian in the movie.  Later, on NRO's The Corner, Jonah Goldberg has picked it up, using it at any opportunity as an expression of frustration or defeat.

I used it here because the author of the linked article name IS Mendoza.  I guess it's really only funny if you know The Simpsons or The Corner that well.

of the writer, who obviously has a biased viewpoint.  If you can't see it then I can't help you.  I would only ask you to check out how many stories like this have been written by the AP, vs. how many stories have they written about why there is such a high re-enlistment rate among those serving in Iraq.

Let the AP give a voice to deserters like Hinzman, who can't give an acceptable reason for why they ran out on the enlistment contract they signed, and deserted their buddies on the eve of war.

There are plenty of Reservists coming home now from Iraq and Afghanistan.  I'll bet that they, and their neighbors and family, won't cotton well to hearing their sacrifice, their efforts, their accomplishments, their losses being chalked up to the service of Big Money and Big Oil.

If Hinzman wants to be the poster boy for deserters, then let him be.  Selfishness like his will immediately get under America's skin.  Let's see him on TV, being interviewed side-by-side with a Reservist who just returned from building schools and hospitals and roads in Afghanstan, exposed all the while to IEDs and sniper fire.  Who do you think will come off better?

If Hinzman and others like him gain notoriety, the MSM will be inclined to interview them.  If the MSM reporter softpedals the questions, to keep Hinzman from stepping all over it on the air, then Powerline and CQ can tear that reporter to pieces.  If Hinzman goes on an anti-Bush, anti-everything rant on the air, we can record his words and play them, again and again and again.  Sounds like great commercial material to me.

If Hinzman is the best they can do, then bring it!

there buddy.  Being that my mom was an NCo for 26 years, I've heard them all many times.  Forgive me for confusing a few words.  Hopefully you weren't so busy picking nits that you missed the point.

Sheesh!

But once I did read it, the Mendoza line was pretty darn funny.

We also have plenty of soldiers returning home who are proud of what they did, and would like to talk about it.

Now, with FoxNews and the blogosphere, their stories can be front page news.  Not lost below the fold, or buried deep in Page A20 of the NYT.

Let the MSM put on its defeatists and whiners; we'll put on our veterans who served with pride and distinction.  Will 30%-40% of Americans reflexively take an anti-war or pro-Dem position?  Sure.

But, I'll bet more than 50% won't.  And, we are a majority-rules nation.

...the Simpsons line was a parody of the Star Trek: Wrath of Kahn line that Kirk yelled.

"Kaaaaaahn!"

How many times must I go over this?

The "decline in recruiting" is a fallacy.  it doesn't exist.  Nationwide, recruitment is up.  We are at unheard of levels.  Admittedly, in places like CA and New England, we're having a hard time (gee, I wonder why?) but everywhere else is more than making up for it.

Furthermore, we are Not facing rising numbers of people going AWOL or filing for Conscientious Objector status.  These have actually fallen drastically and plateaued at record lows.

We are currently facing 90% retention rates.  That is, 9 out of every 10 soldiers up for reenlistment takes it.  The others include, medical, hardship, honourable and dishonourable discharges of all kinds.

The kinds of people who tend to get out after a single term are not signing up right now (again, I wonder why?) but we aren't having trouble finding those who are likely to make careers of the Army.

that it is a bald-faced lie.  One has only to look at our retention numbers to see it.  In 2001 and 2002, we had a flood of people leave the service.  Mostly among the Reserves and the Guard ("We're the Guard/Reserves!  Us, deploy!?").  That has come to an end and stop-loss isn't a major factor in this.

i went into it more higher up.

the BGPD (Big Green [Gray] Plane) Driver.

Give him our thanks for doing what he does.  Give yourself a lion's share of the credit for keeping him in the air enroute to - and - from wherever duty carrys him, by providing and maintaining the home and family he treasures, and that makes it all worth while for him.

Here.

That's an old soldier's arm around your shoulder.

Feel that?

"There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."

You didn't Google 'Nuclear Warhead'.  Perhaps eBay is getting a little too big.  :-)

Thank goodness you didn't Google 'Nuclear Warhead'.

Never give me ideas. 'Nuclear warhead' didn't work, but by futzing around, I finally got this:

Atomic bomb on eBay

Atomic bomb for sale

now on eBay. New Bidders Welcome!

for-sale-now.com/eBay

one of them thar C-17 thingys on eBay the other day. Really nice. Landing it on my street was really interesting, but I'm having a devil of a time getting it into the garage.

I want the US GOVERNMENT to do this stuff, after a trial and a conviction! So are you saying that advocating Tookie Williams' execution would have been against the rules?

!!!!

Well, at least one important Democrat disagrees with your assessment

"We've become like the House of Commons. Whoever has the most votes wins. It hasn't worked that way in 216 years."

Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV)

-----------------

Appreciate the sentiment and it is good to see you out poking around here a little.

Welcome back, soldier.  :)

about not knowing what a C-17 is.

I know the general public doesn't have a clue about these things, but , frankly, I'd expect more from you.  

So, if you're kidding, :P  and if you're not, then you need a smack upside yo head bro, for not knowing who and what is doing the heavy lifting.  ;-)

I wore green suits, not blue ones. The only thing I ever flew in was the back end of a Chinook. You people have too many C's, F's and B's to keep track of in my old age.

And tan when in the desert.  Only blue for the formal hoo-ha stuff.

But you are right.  The c's, f's, b's are a bit much for most to remember.

The code may seem somewhat complicated to the uninitiated, so here's your cheat sheet:

• C is shorthand designating air platforms that Can't Shoot. People who drive these defenseless-but-comfortably-appointed aircraft are called Bus Drivers. They get frequent potty breaks (this is an important perk -- otherwise, if the bad guys show up, they have to change uniforms).
• B refers to aircraft that have sophisticated electronics enabling them to drop Bombs on bad guys. Think of these as really big grenades that are surprisingly easy to throw. I'm not entirely sure these aircraft have pilots anymore.
• F stands for the insufferable Frat Boys who drive sleek and maneuverable sports aircraft called fighters. They wear patterned scarves inside their fancy jumpsuits, salute like schoolgirls, and refer to themselves as Zipper Suited Sun Gods. 'Nuf said.

and pretty much right on the money, I might add.  Especially about our fighter frat boys.  :-)

you were not a Zipper Suited Sun God?

The worst part about the "F's" is that we actually pay people to jaunt around in them ?

No, I was a support guy (we also serve who only ... yada yada yada).

Fighter guys are an interesting bunch. I had a "defrocked" one as my commander in a training group once, and the experience was ... memorable.

But I kid because I love :)

"line the pockets of big money"?

Is that a new liberal nickname for capitalists? Or is he is just mis-regurgitating some propaganda he heard?

He must have seen the previews for this:

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/

I guess they can't kill off their customers fast enough with cigarettes, now they have to start wars.

of military medicine decided it was not for me to serve, I spent 25 years in the airline industry. We had our own brand of Zipper Suited Sun Gods, they wore uniforms and we called them "Captain" --- and don't you forget it :-)

I get it.  Thanks for helping out the clueless.