Redstate

1. Build a wall / Man the borders
   
   
2. Increase legal immigration by 500,000 per year
   
   
3. Fine all the companies that hire illegals starting with all the ones that had to shut down today since they obviously are doing the hiring.
   
   
4. No new amnesty ... fill the jobs with #2 above and let the companies' fear of hiring illegals send the rest home to get in line for legal immigration.

year old kid on the news.  His quote was " today rivals anything that happended in the 60's and 70's".

Pretty impressive youth we have, huh?...

Listen, I really think that we should control the borders much more effectively than we do now.  I also think that most (not all, but most) of the Mexican immigrants in this country are fundamentally good people who are looking for a better life and want to become full, productive citizens of the United States.  We have to do both:  we need to control the border to discourage illegal immigration and we also need to recognize that the people working in our meat packing plants, the people wrapping our Purdue poultry, and the people tending the lawns are hard-working people who want families and a better life.  

The fringe elements are the ones trying to distract people's attention -- the Marxists and the whatnots.  But if most of the immigrants here now thought that Marxism was better, they would have staged a revolution in Mexico instead of coming here.  

Let's meet them halfway:  learn English.  Follow the citizenship guidelines.  Become a full member of this society and don't think it's going to give you a free ride, because it doesn't give any of the people who really understand what it's about a free ride, either, and it never has.  

And let's get some serious border control.  We can't have this marching across the border any longer.  The United States cannot absorb all the immigrants who want to come here illegally from all points of the compass, and doing so is manifestly unfair to those people who jump through all the hoops and do things the right way.  

...on Captain's Quarters today.  The AP reported 25% absences across the Los Angeles Unified School District.  If the number is accurate, and if it reflects close to the reality of illegal immigrants in the LAUSD, that's over $3 billion a year spent on providing education for illegals in Los Angeles alone.

Here's another way of looking at it - the $17,000 per student that the state of California now spends per year on education would be about $22,000 to $23,000 per student if the illegals who skipped school today never returned.  

that would make any concessions to a street mob of foreign nationals issuing ultimatums would no longer be a nation in any coherent sense.  

And the only difference I noticed was that there were no landscaping crews in the area operating gasoline-powered equipment at 7 AM, waking up my children.  

place was packed and service was great.

burrito place today in honor of May Day.  The salsa was hot, the soda was cold, and oddly I was still able to get my burrito without a single illegal alien wrapping it in foil

This is the immigration summed up.  Now, how come this hasn't been passed by Congress yet?

about today.  Nothing.

A bunch of people that feel they are owed that for which they have not earnestly worked, have beaten the thin drum for a reform for which they have established no right.

On this day, we have learned that a bunch of people can (expletive removed in deference to the posting guidelines) and moan and complain, but they come full circle to the original problem; we don't fear their wrath, and we can live without their presence on a soil for which they have not fought, and from which they are due no quarter.

The lunatic activists who believe today was the mechanism to vindicate their claims of righteousness and worth have only accomplished the assertion that a whole bunch of people looking for an opportunity to get out of work and school and to hope a few restaurants can be forced to close can be done without and can be expected less respect than the small amount they were given 24 hours ago.

Went to my favorite Mexican restaurant, which hires 'em, uh, damp.  Same great food, same excellent service, same low prices.  And the workers aren't hurting, judging by what they drive.  

It'll be a shame to see that little piece of heaven go away, but hey, life's rough all over.  I guess I can pay an extra buck or two for legal waiters.

The primary reason I am against the so-called amnesty programis because I think it's ineffective unless coupled with strong enforcement of our borders and our labor laws moving forward.

If I had real confidence that the government was going to wall off our southern border, and was going to enforce laws against employers intent on lowering their costs (and, let's face it, ours) at the expense of the law---then I'd be more than willing to accept as part of such a package a way to normalize many, even most, who have been living here for some time, albeit illegally.

not fair...cranberry juice through nose!  Thanks Soc

I went to the tail end of the protest march in Oakland, when it arrived at City Hall and the Federal Building. I took a bunch of photos, posted at http://www.flickr.com/photos/danceslut/sets/72057594122619738/ .

I was impressed that there were significantly more American flags than Mexican flags, that the crowd was generally peaceful and good-natured, and that they were seriously unimpressed with the BAMN (Bay Area Moronic Nitwits) speakers. Who spoke in English...

Also impressive was the level of staying on-message. One "Free Peltier" guy, one guy with a rainbow US flag, and the one guy in a keffiyeh was doing video. That was it. Two upside-down American flags, one held by an Anglo, one by an unidentified hand. No Aztlan stuff, no reconquista stuff.

The pro-enforcement folks just had their bluff called.  Can they really get all of them in custody and tried?  We incarcerate only 2.2 million people - and we're facing protests from a sizable portion of that at the very least.

We are facing resistance to the law that may arguably exceed our total prison population by at least 500% - and that is just counting the illegal immigrants.  We are not talking about those who hire illegal immigrants, those who provide them any support at all (a ride to a job, etc.).  That puts the excess factor even higher.

Enough people are ignoring/defying the law that we don't have any choice but to realize what has happened and try to manage the conseuqences as best we can - and come up with a system that most people won't feel is worth ignoring/defying.

I was stunned by the number of people interviewed on TV and radio that claim to have been in this country for 10, 15, 20 years or more, and they still had very little command of the English language.

Also, somebody must have given them talking points because just about every last one interviewed made some kind of mention about paying taxes. Many claimed they had a right to the services provided to them freee, because they pay taxes. If that is true, I propose this:

You don't have to pay taxes at all, you just have to pay for the services you now get illegally for free.

What are the taxes on an $8 an hour job anyway? If  they really are paying into the system, I imagine that very little of the $15,000 annual income is going to Uncle Sam.

Are you insanse?  These people are not going home.  The immigrant community has clobbered the conservatives who oppose a pathway to legal status in the public relations war.  There are not going to be mass deportations.

If you think that a pathway to citizenship is unaccetpable then the best you can hope for is nothing getting through the Congress.

They can stay home every day.

I oversee a Contractor working on State contracts paid mostly in Federal Highway money.

Some of my contractors workers are legal citizens (though they grew up as anchor babies) and others are illegal. My labor compliance interview sheet doesn't permit me to ask if they are legal and as long as the employer is happy with their Soc there isn't an issue made about it (irks me). Well the end my diatribe here... they all showed up on the job today, it was raining a lot last month and they get Fed rate wages ($30 or so an hour; cheap labor!) so they wanted to work.

However, the foremen belonging to the other half of the company didn't want to work so nobody showed up there.

Wife's company manages food service/catering at corporate sites in DFW area.

Her mgmt came up with a compromise -- staff who wished to attend the local rallies could designate one rep per site to represent them, the rest had to show for work.

As it turned out, everyone showed up for work except for a couple of people who called in with "la gripa" (the flu).

Her company, btw, does the full I-9 compliance, and usually catches the undocumenteds when complying with INS SSN audits.

--furious

--furious

He's suggesting that if companies stop hiring illegal immigrants they will have no choice but to go back home.

Despite the extensive criticism about all those Mexican flags waving at the last round of marches, they still showed up today with those same flags, waving them in our face.  This is not a group of people who are trying in good faith to show us how much they want to be one of us -- this is an insurgency.

FIGHT BACK!

that hire illegal-aliens should be coerced-migration.

On your point #1, do you want a physical wall or rather you want the boarder secured and sooner rather than later?

A wall will take time to build, man etc. I submit that the boarder can be secured a lot faster by deploying the National Guard on the border as an interim solution, while a wall is built in strategic locations.

An increased inland enforcement targeting businesses hiring illegals will change the illegal immigrant situation overnight.

The president can with executive order implement these things now, the heck with congress.

Bush wants to legalize all the illegals.  Don't ask me why.

at least very few, want to imprison all illegals.  The Republicans have already pledged to remove the felony provision from the bill in conference.

Oh, and even if our jails can't, I'm sure Mexico can hold 12 million more people...

at least not yet.

the freeways were pretty empty on my commute this morning.  Way better than usual.  Maybe things were bad in downtown LA, but for the rest of us...it was kinda nice.

My link to redstate.org stopped functioning.

that if we say no to the demands of these people that they will go back where they came from peacefully?

Let's not emulate France.

whattaya mean no $@%#!*& profanity?  how the %&$@ am i supposed to spew *&@!$#! bile appropriately without some *&^%$#@!&#$%! four letter words?  develop an actual vocabulary?  damn your eyes, redstate!  and no link to dictionary.com?

We have 15 or so people where I work who are immigrants--both legal and illegal. I have worked  at this company for ten years, and so have most of them.  Whenever we have a change in in insurance coverage or a company-wide meeting, someone has to translate everything into Spanish for most of them.  Every other non-hispanic immigrant I know--which is quite a few, and most of those are more recent LEGAL immigrants--has an excellent command of the English language. It is dismaying to me that after ten or so years, the immigrants with whom I work seem to be perfectly content to live in their insular communities while drawing American paychecks.

These organizations that claim to represent illegals have filled their heads with the notion that they have paid their fair share of taxes and are owed something more by us. They have convinced these illegals that US border enforcement is harmful to them and cannot be countenanced.  They have given this dependent underclass the notion that it is a powerful army of righteousness which need not compromise with its host.  They will be there with more lies and hate when those illusions are shattered and cold reality intrudes. Perhaps--before it gets too bad--many of them will break away from the "activists" and forge a separate peace with us based on common sense and compromise.  There is no other way.

Sarkozy's latest legislative proposal:

Sarkozy says the bill aims to attract a new generation of skilled workers who would embrace French values and traditions, thus easing the tense race relations that led to last autumn's suburban riots by youths mostly of immigrant origin.

It would create a three-year "skills and talents" residence permit to attract skilled workers. It would also make it harder for resident immigrants to bring family here, force newcomers to take French and civics lessons and end their automatic right to a long-term residence permit after 10 years in France.

The way I see it - we simply can't do so.  Unless you want to turn every cop in this country into this sort of thing - and even then, it is hit or miss.

Drove to work -- nothing different.  Worked al day -- nothing different.  Went to lunch -- nothing different.  Kids at school -- nothing different.  Drove home -- nothing different.  

Watched the news -- stories of mass protests and businesses shut down.  Hmmmm.

WaPo used front page crowd shot of L.A. rally. About 300,000 demonstrators, supposedly. Numbers falling.

Quite a few Salvadoran flags in the crowd. And the mass produced ANSWER posters.

Meanwhile, NPR continued its propaganda barrage. Voz del Indocumentado, I guess.

your commentary is right on the mark. about the free ride I would like to see specifically:

1. if you are here illegally you get NO social services (schools, hospitals, welfare). Personally I would say you get deported, but who are we kidding
   
   
2. if you are here legally you get very little social services: schools and emergency hospital care, yes...welfare, food stamps, etc, no.
   
   
3. only once you become a citizen do you get these luxuries. (and yes I call them luxuries, not necessities)

Irritates me.  Like you said, they have been here 10, 15, 20 years and they still can't speak the language.  Some aren't making an effort to integrate into the system, and they're children are being taught by Spanish-speaking teachers.  They are not practicing outside the home, and most likely not inside the home either.  That's why they feel that they can write their own national anthem, because they are still on the outside looking in, by choice.

how do you determine which ones meet the requirements to receive amnesty, err a path to earned legalization?  

and dog and head for France.

www.protestwarrior.com

These guys are fantastic.  They take signs which look at first glance like Leftist propaganda, but they are in fact conservative.  They even have videos of their infiltrating Leftist rallies with their signs.  

Did notice the new "damp" TexMex resturant was closed....

can have conversational control over the English language within 5 years (and her language has No relationship to ours other than being spoken)

Then there's no reason a Spanish speaker (a Romance language, is it not?) can't learn it in the same period or less...

We can track down most of them, and we need to start right now. Though I'd pay big money to see them all removed from the country, I feel that since they are here illegally, their bank accounts or personal assets can be seized to pay for their deportation, and their employers fined (like the law currently says) to pay for any administrative costs. Non-enforcement of our immigration laws has led to this, and our legislators need to be held accountable for that.

Illegals have powers that allow them to exist with no sustenance, powers that allow them to be anywhere and nowhere at the same time, powers that defy any attempt at documentation. They don't need no stinkin' amnesty, and any wall we build on the border is merely a speed bump. Just lay back and enjoy it like Harold. There is nothing we can do about it.

  in my area and my trade.  Let me first say that I am FOR extreme tightening of the borders and for SEVERE fines to those employers who knowingly hire illegals.  Having said that, I am located in south west florida (TampaBay) and I have a metal framing and drywall business.  A huge percentage of the workers in my business are latino so yesterday brought a HUGE slow down to a COMPLETE stop in construction work for a wide variety of trades.  Now as far as my company goes, I go overboard in making sure that those guys I hire are legal.  I even check out there social security numbers and green cards, to make sure they are legit, BEFORE they start working.  I have also spent time and money helping them with their paperwork for citizenship, helping them get other family members over to the US legally etc and I feel they showed their gratefullness by coming to work yesterday.  On the other-hand I have several sub-contractors who contract work from me on a piece-work basis whose entire crews were no shows yesterday.  So YES as far as my local, the walk off was felt.  But I can tell you this for a fact, it DID NOT create good feelings between thier employers and them and may have hurt them in the long run.  Several boses told me they would have fired them in a minute if they could figure an end-round to the labor problem.

Me myself, I am willing to deal with the increased

prices for certain items etc to get this situation rectified.  In the end we are a nation of laws and have no right to expect people to follow those laws if we are not willing to enforce them.  I have become VERY disillusioned with my party, the immigration situation being the straw that broke the burro's back.  If there is no strong republican who stands up and speaks for us on these matters, and who can't find a way to get the party in line and acting like the majority then I may well be through with them.

For right now I look at my American citizenship and wonder what it is worth, what value does it have?  I work, pay my taxes and vote yet someone from another country can sneak in against the law and recieve ALL my benefits and even ones I can't have!  Heck, why should I even pay taxes, what good does it do ME!  Our status as a republic is in jeapordy.

Are you factoring in the 10% "normal" absence rate?

Can you estimate how much was lost in productivity just in that one sector yesterday?

Except for right around City Hall in the morning and Wilshire Blvd. in the afternoon.  But I doubt that led to enough increased productivity to offset what was lost yesterday.  especially when you consider the most obvious traffic missing were trucks from the Port of L.A./Long Beach.

...10% is the "normal" absentee rate for LAUSD high schools.  The average is about 7% for the entire district, K-12.  

That would make an 18% illegal absentee rate yesterday...or about $2.5 billion per year in LAUSD.  

Am I to assume that under your plan all of those legal immigrants to whom you would deny services would no longer have to pay the same federal, state, and local taxes that you do?

Could the people who were born here get in on that as well? Would there be a form we could fill out?

I'm an LAUSD teacher. I wish every day were like yesterday. No traffic on my commute, and only the "good" kids showed up. You know, the ones who do their homework, bring their books, stay in their seats, and are - gasp - interested in learning English (I teach ESL). The tattoo'd gangstas and their molls stayed home - er, that is, they demonstrated. Supposedly.

My job depends on large numbers of immigrants, but I teach the legal ones too -- Koreans, Persians, south Asians, Israelis, Russians, Armenians, you name it. These kids don't understand and don't care about issues which they see as pertaining solely to "the Mexicans" (an appellation which includes Central Americans). That's why the hypocrisy of 5/1/06 as an "Immigrants' Day" is so galling. It was all about illegal immigrants, Spanish=speaking illegal immigrants, and not one 14 year old was fooled. Korean kid asks: "What do they want?" I couldn't tell him what I thought, which was "Something for nothing."

It's interesting, by the way, how many of my brain-dead liberal colleagues rant and foam over this issue. Most of them are to the right of Limbaugh when it comes to immigration -- but one can't tell them that. After all, I am the token right-wing nut case and cannot be taken seriously.

...where do the teachers stand on immigration?  

I sense some disconnect between their sense of obligation to the liberal cause of backing the immigrants and their practical realization that having a district overrun by illegals makes their job virtually impossible.

Through it all, the teacher's union keeps up the drumbeat about how California spends so little per student on education compared to other states, without exploring the underlying reason.  As became obvious on May 1, California spends a lot per citizen student.

Let me clarify point 2.

I was thinking more the people who will inevitably be made legal via a "guest worker" program or something like that. And, no, they will not get out of paying taxes.

Here's the thing, we are creating this class of people (the temporary worker) because of the excuse that there arent people here that would do it. if that is the case, then there is no reason that they should be here if they are no longer working. And they definitely should not be here collecting social services. If they arent working they need to go back.

Actually that is already somewhat the case with people who are here legally. There are employees from other countries that are here only as long as the retain the sponsorship of their employer. If they are no longer at that job they would need to retain sponsorship of another employer or leave the country. And, yes they do pay taxes.

I could see granting some temporary assistance if you are between jobs, like a month or so but not handouts. You may think it is unfair that they pay taxes and wouldnt be eligible for everyone elses money, I dont. They always have the option to stay home and fix their own problems.

$2.5 billion I can deal with - add up all those kinds of "costs" and compare to the "benefits" we get - it would be interesting to see what the economic impact was on May 1st.  I know that L.A.'s Farmers' Market was completely shut down, and the news said that is $1 million right there.  The Port of L.A./Long Beach was very slow too - probably more than $1 million lost there.  It does add up quickly.

Bottom line, until Plyer v. Doe is overturned, State are forced to educate illeagl alien kids - in the meantime, shouldn't we be trying to assimilate them as much as possible?  Speaking of overturning cases, though, if Roe v. Wade had not succeeded in killing off 40 million plus, maybe we wouldn't need as many illegal aliens.

I'd rather Congress address immigration reform and then the country can move on.  I think the lack of traffic on the freeways at least was that more due to no trucks going to / shipping from the Port of L.A./Long Beach - you want THAT every day too?

Just in L.A. County, the economic fallout of the one-day boycott could be as high as $200 million (according to Jack Kyser, chief economist of the Los Angeles Economic Development Corp., but that estimate is still just a fraction of the $1.2 billion in economic activity the county generates daily and took into consideration commerce that would be made up later in the week).  I wonder what the overtime was for LAPD?  There are, of course, benefits too: less traffic overall and strain on infrastructre, pollution, oil consumption, and other savings in energy, manpower, etc.

Or we shouldn't, unless they commit some other crime. The proper thing to do with illegals is a one-way bus (or plane, if OTM) ride to a non-border town in their home country.

Thanks for your response.

I was thinking more the people who will inevitably be made legal via a "guest worker" program or something like that. And, no, they will not get out of paying taxes.

Here's the thing, we are creating this class of people (the temporary worker) because of the excuse that there arent people here that would do it.

Part of the problem I see with much of the immigration debate right now is that it stereotypes immigrants as poorly educated workers who sneak across the Mexican/American border to take jobs no other Americans would take and take advantage of American generosity.  The reality is a lot more complicated than that.  Many immigrants to this country are from all over the world, speak flawless English, and have high-tech skills that are in short supply in the U.S.  Many of them provide a valuable contribution to this country.

if that is the case, then there is no reason that they should be here if they are no longer working. And they definitely should not be here collecting social services. If they arent working they need to go back.

I am an immigrant.  I was born in Canada.  My native language is English.  I hold science degrees from two of the top universities in the United States.  I currently work for NASA.  I was on my way to obtaining a green card through the Department of Labor certification process (because there are too few Americans in my area of technical expertise) when I met and married my husband, an American.  I now have two young children and am pursuing American citizenship on the basis of my marriage to an American (and I hope to have my citizenship in time to vote for Condi :-).

I provide close to half of my family income.  If I lose my job, why should my American family suffer for a lack of services that I have been paying taxes to provide for other people since I entered this country?  And do you seriously propose that if I'm no longer working, I should simply pack up and return to Canada?  And would that be with or without my family?  Because my husband would face the same immigration problems there that I face here.

Actually that is already somewhat the case with people who are here legally. There are employees from other countries that are here only as long as the retain the sponsorship of their employer. If they are no longer at that job they would need to retain sponsorship of another employer or leave the country. And, yes they do pay taxes.

You are correct that people currently here legally, but without green cards (ie., temporary guest workers), have no right to stay beyond the terms of their employment.  But those same people are required to pay Social Security taxes.  Why, if they are not eligible to ever collect on the money they have paid into the system?

I could see granting some temporary assistance if you are between jobs, like a month or so but not handouts. You may think it is unfair that they pay taxes and wouldnt be eligible for everyone elses money, I dont. They always have the option to stay home and fix their own problems.

I am certainly not in favor of people living off of handouts either, but I do believe that it's only fair that immigrants be entitled to the same services as Americans when they are paying the same taxes for those services.  And by the way, I didn't leave Canada because of its problems (although I acknowledge it has plenty of them) but because I was a young, idealistic nut about space and wanted to be as involved as possible in the space program.  I have been doing my best to serve this country in whatever capacity I could ever since I got here.

Please do not get me wrong; I firmly believe we need to tighten border enforcement in this country.  I have first hand experience of just how broken the immigration system is and I definitely believe it needs to be fixed.  However this is not an area where America would be served by knee jerk reactions and "one size fits all" solutions.  There needs to be a serious discussion about how to reform immigration in ways that will best serve the interests of the United States, and simultaneously be fair to the people who are permitted to immigrate to this great country.

Many immigrants to this country are from all over the world, speak flawless English, and have high-tech skills that are in short supply in the U.S.  Many of them provide a valuable contribution to this country.

I understand that and I know many of them, but they are not part of the problem because they do come here as effective members of the community.

I am an immigrant.  I was born in Canada.  ...am pursuing American citizenship on the basis of my marriage to an American

Trust me I know a few people like you and the pain in the butt it is for you to get here, how long you have to wait, how you cant go back to Canada during the process even if there is a death in the family. I understand. It is tough. I also think that through your marriage you are a unique example.

There are always complexities and I am not trying to cookie cutter it and I am for exemptions. I am talking about blatant abuses to the system as well as those who are here, with no ties to this country and living off the dole. I also suspect that if you were to lose your job you wouldnt decide to live off welfare in eternum. I did mention that temporary assistance should be provided and I can see where your case is different, I never denied that. Perhaps I should have mentioned it but then I would have to come up with every possible variable. I think you know where I am getting at.

I also think Condi would be a good candidate. :-)

But those same people are required to pay Social Security taxes.  Why, if they are not eligible to ever collect on the money they have paid into the system?

HAHAHAHA!!!! I dont believe I am even going to get back the money I paid into social security, why should immigrants have it any better? :-)

But seriously, I look at it as cost of admission. If we believe in controlling the borders there has to be an incentive to stick to the program and work within the system. Once you do get your green card or citizenship, etc. you have full entitlement to receive those benefits. Otherwise there is no deterrant from sucking the system dry.

You also have to realize I am looking at this from the view that everyone is already paying billions too much into the federal government through unconstitutional social services. If i had it my way, it wouldnt be an issue.

I have first hand experience of just how broken the immigration system is and I definitely believe it needs to be fixed.  However this is not an area where America would be served by knee jerk reactions and "one size fits all" solutions.

I understand and I agree with you on a lot of things. Personally I think that cases where you are in an obvious legitimate marriage you should be fast tracked. The process for legalization is insultingly slow considering the coddling you would get if you had just snuck in from somewhere in Manitoba. I guess my reaction would be considered on size fits all, but it isnt. It is but for the lack of time I cannot go into more detail. Now, if RS wants to pay me to blog, then I can address every possible scenario.

Thanks again for your cordial response!

There are always complexities.... I think you know where I am getting at.

Fair enough.

HAHAHAHA!!!! I dont believe I am even going to get back the money I paid into social security, why should immigrants have it any better? :-)

Touché.  I don't seriously expect to ever see a cent of it either.

...if you had just snuck in from somewhere in Manitoba

That conjured a very funny image for me of someone with a frostbitten nose shivering in their boots as they snuck across some cow pasture at midnight in the dead of winter.  Thanks - needed that. ;-)