The making of an ex-Marine?
By AcademicElephant Posted in War — Comments (23) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Various Marines of my real and virtual acquaintance have commented that there is no such thing as an ex-Marine. There are only "former" (which as I understand it means non-active) Marines. To be an ex-Marine would mean renouncing the values of the corps, and that is something that is profoundly antithetical to the Marine character.
So how do we reconcile the most recent escapade of Representative John Murtha (D-PA), who as a Marine heroically served his nation in the Vietnam War, with this creed?
Many of Mr. Murtha's choices over the past six months have been difficult to understand, coming as they do from this distinguished soldier. Mr. Murtha has come across as willfully defeatist and as either not understanding or not caring how his pronouncements might effect the morale of our troops in combat. I mean, whether you support this war or not, it should be clear to the meanest intelligence that calling our armed forces "broken" while they are in the field is not helpful in any way, except to score some personal short-term political gain as you pander to the far, anti-war left. So I've had a hard time understanding Mr. Murtha's actions as appropriate to a former Marine. But today it has gone beyond that. I'm downright baffled.
According to the Army Times, on November 19th a Marine was killed by a roadside bomb while patrolling in Haditha, Iraq. The details of the ensuing fighting, in which a number of civilians died, are hazy. It may be that in their rage over the loss of their comrade, the Marines were over-zealous in their retaliation. Time printed the complaints of the Iraqi civilian group in late March. The Pentagon has duly initiated an investigation, which is ongoing, and three Marine officers associated with the Haditha incident were relieved of command on April 7th.
But apparently Mr. Murtha finds the judicial process unnecessary because the truth is self-evident. He's willing to act as prosecutor, judge and jury on this event that took place half way around the globe and involved people he has never met because they're guilty. According to Mr. Murtha, who has gone to the press with this, the Marines "killed innocent civilians in cold blood." Time, which spent weeks researching its article with first-hand interviews, sugar-coated the story. "It's much worse," declared Mr. Murtha. Given the opportunity to retract or qualify his statements on Hardball, Mr. Murtha would not budge.
So where is he getting the information that has resulted in such certitude? A Marine spokesman, Lt. Col. Sean Gibson, has "no idea," and proposes that "thoroughness"--rather than politics?--drive the investigation. And why is Mr. Murtha rushing to judgment on his fellow Marines before the evidence is in? If these Marines did go on a retaliatory "rampage" it would indeed be unfortunate, and they should be punished. Mr. Murtha, however, has no role in the investigation or in subsequent disciplinary action. Indeed, instead of being so quick to condemn these Marines, he might consider simply staying quiet. This is war and they were, after all, reacting to the death of a comrade at the hands of an enemy that does not stand and fight, but rather resorts to cowardly second-hand tactics like roadside bombs. That does not justify wrongdoing, but it should not be that hard for a former Marine to understand.
Mr. Murtha's after-the-fact pronouncements serve no good purpose. They only muddy the waters of the investigation and endanger its impartiality--but perhaps that's the point. The only explanation I can come up with--which Mr. Murtha more or less admits in the article linked above--is that he is demonizing the Marines in order to prove that the illegal and failed Iraq war is so demoralizing that it is turning the Marines into ex-Marines--into immoral monsters who kill like animals. His pre-emption of the investigation betrays his eagerness to make this unfortunate episode into grist for his political mill. In other words, the Marines' guilt suits Mr. Murtha's contemporary political agenda, in the service of which he has sacrificed his identity as a Marine.
So, a question for those Marines out there: is this John Murtha's "Ghengis Kahn" moment? Is this different from what he's done before--a betrayal so blatant and unnecessary, not to mention unseemly, that it makes an ex-Marine?
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It's one thing to call down wrath on those who commit war crimes. It's quite another to do so based on facts in dispute.
If the atrocities in question had been alleged against a civilian defendent, would Mr. Murther be justified in announcing their guilt? Or would he be counselling patience and faith in the system?
He's an ex-Marine. And I don't consider it hypocritical not to wait for his jury trial. Live by the mouth, die by the pen.
my Marine Corps son - 19 at the time - said, "I like to go somewhere quite and think about the price paid by the Marines who've come before me. And then I pray my service honors them."
Although i would change the 2nd sentence to hope my actions justify the costs they paid for this country not being an active servicemember.
If more of America thought like this, many of todays issues would not be issues.
may soon be over. Go Diana Irey!
Josh was home with two of his guys. There were probably 5 or 6 of his high school friends - then in college - visiting. It was an interesting "guy" day. Full of body noises, jokes that they made sure "mom" wasn't in hearing distance and generally testosterone dripping off the walls.
Josh said that, his two Marines solemnly shook their heads. The college kids were just clueless about how these three seemingly "normal" 19 year old guys could be so unhinged.
I just cried.
Interestingly enough none of the Marines I know, and I know lots, care much about what Murtha does or about what civilians think. They care very much about the guy next to them wearing cammy paint.
my "clueless" comment about the college kids above was not meant to be a slap at them. They were just unable to process what the Marines were talking about. It was like having a discussion about a foreign culture.
Only Marines can judge him as a Marine.
But as for the rest of us, we can judge him politically. As a politician, he is acting like a publicity hound and a jerk. If he has facts, he should share them. If he doesn't, he should shut up.
What IS it about being on television that makes people lose it so?
There is nothing about being on TV that causes people to go over the top.
Hosts invite people who are over the top to come on and demonstrate that they are fools. Murtha, McCain, Hagel, Biden, Durbin, etal are fools in their private lives, they don't need a TV. The camera just gives them the opportunity to show off their worst qualities.
is a small world. What does your son do in the Corps? (If you don't mind me asking.)
He's out now. He was a SpOps Team Leader in a Boat Company.
After his first deployment, his unit went to Mountain Warfare School in Northern California to practice "nasty night maneuvers". He was climbing a sheer rock face in the rain, at night, with an 80# pack and a 26# M240G machine gun. Lost his hand hold and fell off the mountain. Several surgeries later, he got a medical discharge. He's OK, there's not a civilian job he can't do, he just has problems with big packs, lots of body armour and heavy weapons combined with 15 or 20 mile strolls in the wilderness.
He loved, and loves the Corps and his guys. They are closer than relatives.
last week and at the reception (45-60 Marines from O-6 to E-3) asked casually about their opinion of Murtha. Not one felt his comments were appropriate or respectfull. If anyone has qualified to have their status of "once a Marine - always a Marine" revoked, it would be Congressman Treason (Murtha).
BTW, his brother makes millions as a defense industry consultant - nice that the Congressman steers millions of taxpayer defense dollars his way. This crook needs to be investigated.
if there was anyone running against this clown this year, and can I donate to their campaign?
that he is OK. I just recently got out of the Marine Corps after more than 10 years in and I kind of miss it. I still work with Marines though - not even close to the same thing, but it is still cool.
Her website and info are HERE.
I would hope that RedState could get behind her at some point like they did for the guy in Texas several weeks ago.
My presumption is that Murtha has seen it. If not, then he certainly dosn't know what he's talking about, but I'm curious what's on it - it can't be all that good to provoke him to speak as he has. Without seeing it it's harder to judge.
my nephew "graduated" out of Paris Island. I was invited to attend. It was one of the most goose-bump raising, awe-inspiring experiences of my life.
The pride they have in themselves, the honor they work so hard to display for their loved ones and their brothers and sisters in the Corps and C.O.'s would make any person that took the time to watch such a display bow their head and thank God for them and what they do. Men and women of the military, any branch (Marines in this thread) rerally DON'T pay attention to the clap trap coming from us out here in the streets; the Politicians and the media and the Murthas are distractions and background noise.
Soldiers are expected to be focused, deliberate, and ever vigilant...they let the rest of us worry about the "little stuff"-they are too busy keeping us safe. Murtha's rhetoric gets US all riled up...his so-called fellow Marines have written him off...as a traitor basically, and take little heed in his shameful words and actions-I am sure he already IS an ex-marine in the eyes of the only ones that really matter...the rest of the Corps.
Or if he's seen the full report. He will not deal with the idea that we are WAR, and until that happens he is a blathering old fool.
When the report is finally published, he can take all the shots he wants. Until then he needs to shut up.
To the Marine Corps. I served my final years as a Navy Hosptial Corpsman with the 2nd Marine Division, while embroiled in Beirut and Grenada.
To the "Doc", serving in the infantry isn't a clean or glory filled life. Lots of mud,physical pain, and a huge responsibility to the men who look to you to keep them healthy, and save their lives with your skill if necessary. The tradition of the Hospital Corpsman in the Marine Corps is deep with bravery and courage under fire, and a "Doc" is given high respect in the Corps, even more so once he has proven himself to his Marines.
Many times I was honored to be called "Marine" by officers and enlisted alike. And even the Navy men working with them realize that once you have served with the Corps, your life is changed forever. My 1st Sgt once told me "Doc, you're gonna hump (hike) your way into Valhalla right along with the rest of us". I was discharged from Camp Lejuene 22 years ago, and my life WAS changed by my service in the Corps.
Marines are a strange breed. Fearless and Loyal to a fault. They get called to every trouble spot, often the first regular troops to go in (after Sp.Forces/Seals.)The esprit de corps and brotherly affection that Marines have for each other has no equal in this country, and only the French Foreign Legion comes close to replicating it. I still get letters and cards from Marines I served with. It Truly is a "Band of Brothers".
Murtha and other hacks like Carville are the exceptions that prove the rule. They forgot what they were taught about Duty, Honor, and their responsiblity for their comrades in arms. I didn't necessarily agree with Pres. Reagan when he decided to send us to Beirut. But Marines are trained to understand that the ELECTED CIVILIAN AUTHORITY give the orders, and our job is not to question them or rationalize the orders, but to carry them out.
Lately, every word out of Murtha's mouth is treason, as his comments give hope and optimism to our enemy, and at the same time hurt his fellow Marines in the field under fire. He better hope he doesn't meet THIS "Doc", cause I got something for his ass.
Murtha really IS an EX-MARINE. I place Lee Harvey Oswald above Murtha at this point. If Oswald really did shoot JFK, that means he got off 3 shots with a piece of crap Italian bolt action rifle, and scored 2 hits, including a head shot. At least he learned how to shoot well in the Corps.
is one long, drawn out Gengis Khan moment.
Personally, if I had to pick "the" moment it would be when he said he would not enlist in today's military.
In Murtha's case, he has so many eye opening quotes that to pick one is really an exercise in futility. The guy has no HONOR. He does not understand the idea of DUTY. And he certainly has no respect for or use for the CORPS.
When asked by a high school friend what he did when he wasn't training, my Marine Corps son - 19 at the time - said, "I like to go somewhere quite and think about the price paid by the Marines who've come before me. And then I pray my service honors them."
John Murtha is not fit to clean the boots of any Marine I know.