RedState Scoop: House Ldsp Talking Points

By krempasky Posted in Comments (37) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

Since they're trying to keep everyone on the same page - figured it'd be good to share the page. Don't miss Dales' response fisking.

Separation of Powers

Talking Points

  • This is not about Rep. Jefferson and his legal problems. The FBI has supposedly already found $90,000 in his freezer and that one of his staffers has pled guilty to accepting bribes. Even Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has called for his resignation.
  • We are not coming to the defense of Rep. Jefferson. We are defending the separation of powers among the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government.
  • For the last 219 years, the Speech or Debate clause has been upheld by numerous courts.
  • The Supreme Court has stated repeatedly and unequivocally that when the Speech or Debate privilege applies, it is "absolute."
  • Further insisting that,
    The guarantees of th[e Speech or Debate] Clause are vitally important to our system of government," [they must] be treated by the courts with the sensitivity that such important values require. - Helstoski v. Meanor, 442 U.S. 500, 506 (1979)

Oh please do read on...

  • The spirit of the Speech or Debate clause dates back to the English Civil War.
  • Consider the precedent set by these actions.

Imagine if Americans were to give House and Senate committees information or "whistle-blow" on the activities of the executive branch. And what if the executive branch were able, based on the precedent set last weekend, to "search" these offices? They could have access to the identities of the whistle-blowers and all of the details of their charges. Of course, the Justice Department can still use its subpoena powers to get certain documents.

How can the Congress carry out its responsibilities to the American people to carry out oversight of an administration or investigations of wrongdoing on the part of administration officials at the highest levels?

  • This did not happen with the Abscam scandal.
  • This did not happen with the House Bank Scandal.
  • This did not happen with the Teapot Dome Scandal.

Yet, justice was served in these cases without breaching the separation of powers.

In fact, it hasn't happened in the 219 years of public corruption investigations and prosecutions.

We will solve this constitutional problem by taking steps to preserve the ability of the Department of Justice to prosecute its case while enforcing compliance with the separation of powers required by the Constitution.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW, JUST AS NO BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT IS ABOVE THE CONSTITUTION.

And if that wasn't enough - they've provided a handy Q&A for interested parties.

Questions & Answers on FBI Search of Congressional Office

Question 1: Does the Constitution safeguard the independence of the legislative branch and, if so, how does it do that?

Yes. The Constitution safeguards the independence of the Legislative Branch in two ways. First, the Constitution divides and distributes the powers of the federal government among the three branches: article I sets forth the powers of the Legislative Branch; article II sets forth the powers of the Executive Branch; and article III sets forth the powers of the Judicial Branch. This "Separation of Powers" is fundamental to the structure of our government and was intended by the Founding Founders to protect Americans' liberty by ensuring that undue power would not be concentrated in any one branch of the government. Each branch is to operate independently, within its own sphere of power and responsibility.

Second, the independence of the Legislative Branch is safeguarded by the Speech or Debate Clause of the Constitution, article I, ยง 6, cl. 1, which provides that "for any Speech or Debate in either House, they [Senators and Representatives] shall not be questioned in any other Place." Because of the extraordinary abuses of the English Parliament by the English monarchy in the centuries preceding the American Revolution, the Founding Fathers were particularly concerned that the Legislative Branch of our government be able to operate freely, independently and without fear of intimidation by the Executive Branch. Accordingly, they included the Speech or Debate Clause in the Constitution to ensure that legislators could not be questioned about their legislative activities, or subjected to lawsuits or prosecutions for their legislative activities.

The independence of the Legislative Branch is vitally important to a free society because it checks the Executive Branch which possesses enormous powers such as the police and law enforcement powers, and control over the military. No branch of government can ignore the limits on its powers under the Constitution just because it thinks certain actions are a good idea or might be popular. For example, even if Congress thought that a law outlawing speech that praised the actions of terrorists were a good idea, it could not and should not pass such a law because the First Amendment protects the right of all Americans to freely express themselves. And even if the Executive Branch thinks that Congressman Jefferson is guilty of a crime and that it is a good idea to search his Congressional office, it cannot and must not do so unless the search can be conducted consistent with the Separation of Powers principle and Congressman Jefferson's Speech or Debate rights. Saturday night's raid on Congressman Jefferson's Congressional office was not even remotely consistent with the Separation of Powers principle and Congressman Jefferson's Speech or Debate rights.


Question 2: What has the Supreme Court said about the Speech or Debate Clause and the importance of legislative independence?

  • A. The Supreme has explained that the purpose of the Speech of Debate Clause is
    to insure that the legislative function the Constitution allocates to Congress may be performed independently.

    [T]he "central role" of the Clause is to "prevent intimidation of legislators by the Executive and accountability before a possibly hostile judiciary." -- Eastland v. U.S. Serviceman's Fund, 421 U.S. 491, 502 (1975).

    In the American governmental structure the clause serves the additional function of reinforcing the separation of powers so deliberately established by the Founders." --U.S. v. Johnson, 383 U.S. 169, 178 (1966).

  • B. The Supreme Court has also explained the scope of the Speech or Debate Clause as extending to all activities that are

    an integral part of the deliberative and communicative processes by which Members participate in committee and House proceedings with respect to the consideration and passage or rejection of proposed legislation or with respect to other matters which the Constitution places within the jurisdiction of either House.-- Eastland , 421 U.S. at 504.

  • C. Finally, the Supreme Court has stated repeatedly and unequivocally that when the Speech or Debate privilege applies, it is "absolute," and the Court has insisted that

    [because] the guarantees of th[e Speech or Debate] Clause are vitally important to our system of government," [they must] be treated by the courts with the sensitivity that such important values require. -- Helstoski v. Meanor, 442 U.S. 500, 506 (1979).

In short, the Supreme Court views the Speech or Debate Clause of the Constitution as a very, very big deal.

Question 3: Why is it so important that the Department of Justice return the documents it unlawfully seized?

The need for return of the documents has nothing to do with the Justice Department's case against Congressman Jefferson. Every Congressional Office contains certain Legislative Branch documents that are protected by the Constitution. This protection - as the Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized - is essential to guarantee the independence of the Legislative Branch. No matter how routine and non-controversial any individual Legislative Branch document might be, the principle of Separation of Powers, the independence of the Legislative Branch, and the protections afforded by the Speech or Debate Clause of the Constitution must be respected in order to prevent overreaching and abuse of power by the Executive Branch.

No one in Congress is saying that the Justice Department cannot or should not seek out information relevant to a criminal investigation. All Congress is saying is that the Justice Department must seek information in a manner consistent with the Speech or Debate privilege - just as prosecutors and law enforcement officers must seek information in a manner consistent with all the other constitutional freedoms to which Americans have a right, such as the First Amendment right to free speech, the Fourth Amendment right to be free from unlawful search and seizure, the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination, and the Sixth Amendment right to an attorney.

Consider also Congress's constitutional obligation to conduct oversight of the Executive Branch. In the past, relevant Congressional committees have investigated, for example, misconduct in the Justice Department, including the Office of Public Integrity and the FBI. If the manner in which the Justice Department executed the search warrant were to set a precedent, then the Justice Department could execute search warrants on such Congressional committees and seize the documents that demonstrate their own misdeeds. This would seriously erode, if not effectively end, Congress's ability to conduct oversight of the Executive Branch, to the very great detriment of the American people.

Question 4: In the 219 years since the adoption of the Constitution, why has the Department of Justice never executed a search warrant on a congressional office before now?

That is a very good question, and a question best asked of the Department of Justice. Members of Congress, including the Speaker of the House and the House Democratic Leader, have questioned why after 219 years of successfully investigating and prosecuting public corruption cases without violating the Constitution, the Justice

Department now felt it was necessary to overturn 219 years of precedent and to violate the Constitution.

Question 5: How have the Congress and the Executive Branch worked out these sorts of issues in the past?

The Executive Branch routinely requests information from the Legislative Branch, in both civil and criminal matters, often through subpoenas. Congress also routinely requests information from the Executive Branch. Typically the two branches work hard to accommodate one another without raising Separation of Powers concerns and constitutional questions. The Justice Department, in particular, obviously and wisely has concluded in the past that it had sufficient tools in its law enforcement arsenal to successfully prosecute public corruption by Members of Congress without breaching the Separation of Powers principle or violating the Speech or Debate Clause.


Question 6: Did the Justice Department really exhaust all of its other options to get documents from Jefferson's office without resorting to a search warrant?

In the affidavit the FBI submitted to the judge in support of its application for the search warrant, the Justice Department claimed that it had exhausted all other means to get the documents before seeking the warrant. In the version of the affidavit the Justice Department released to the public, however, it redacted all of the information relating to its claim that it exhausted all other options. It is therefore difficult to determine whether the Justice Department's representations to the judge were accurate. However, Members of Congress are very, very skeptical that the Justice Department has, in fact, exhausted all other means. Indeed, the House knows the Justice Department failed to exhaust other options because no one in the Justice Department ever attempted to reach out to the House leadership in an effort to find some solution that would avoid a search warrant.

Question 7: Why was the FBI's search of Congressman Jefferson's office unconstitutional? Didn't the FBI claim to have implemented safeguards to prevent any violation of the legislative privilege?

The search of Congressman Jefferson's congressional office violated the Speech or Debate Clause because the FBI searched Congressman Jefferson's entire office (including his legislative materials) and seized many of his record (including all of his computer hard drives which contained legislative materials), all without the Congressman being present of having any opportunity to remove his privileged legislative materials.

The procedures set out in the search warrant did not even remotely cure the Speech or Debate Clause violation. Those procedures authorized the FBI to seize documents and computer files from Congressman Jefferson's office without any removal of legislative materials by the Congressman; permitted the so-called Filter Team to decide all by itself which documents are covered by the privilege and which are not (even though it is literally impossible for them to make that determination without being inside the Congressman's mind, knowing his motivations, and having a comprehensive knowledge of his legislative activities); authorized the Filter Team to immediately turn over to the investigators all documents the Filter Team concluded were not covered by the privilege; and, finally, provided for the Justice Department to take any documents the Filter Team had concluded might be privileged to court for judicial determination of privilege by the judge. In short, those "procedures" make a mockery of the Speech or Debate Clause privilege - an "absolute" privilege according to the Supreme Court of the United States -- for many reasons, but principally because provide no role for Congressman Jefferson determine in advance which of his documents he believes are covered by the privilege.

If this search is allowed to stand, then Separation of Powers and Legislative Branch independence will be very seriously eroded. The Legislative Branch would have little protection against Executive Branch officials willing to abuse their power and intimidate or retaliate against Congress and its Members. This, in return, would curtail Congress's ability to conduct the oversight of the Executive Branch mandated by the Constitution's system of checks and balances.

Whatever the circumstances, to assume that one branch of government will preserve the prerogatives of another branch is to assume that the safeguards put in place by our Founders are unnecessary. Consider for example if the FBI conducted a similar raid on a Member serving on the Judiciary Committee, and known or unbeknownst to the FBI, the Judiciary Committee was conducting an investigation involving a whistleblower within the FBI who was alleging corruption or misconduct within the FBI, and the Member whose office was being raided had in his or her office documentation related to this Congressional investigation of FBI corruption. While the FBI might have legitimate claim to other documents not protected by privilege in the Member's office, enabling the FBI to see the Congressional documents relating to the investigation of the FBI would obviously create grave harm. This illustrates the vital purpose served by the Separation of Powers principle and the Speech or Debate Clause of the Constitution.

Question 8: What was the timeline of the FBI search? Did the FBI make any effort to notify the House or its Office of General Counsel of the search warrant?

Although the Justice Department and the House Office of General Counsel have been in regular contact over the ten months the House has been aware of this investigation, the FBI entered Congressman Jefferson's office without any notice whatsoever to the Speaker of the House or the House Office of General Counsel. The FBI entered the office and spent 18 hours looking through and seizing documents, as well as imaging entire computer hard drives. Some of the material was very likely legislative and some of it was very likely outside the scope of the FBI's investigation.

The FBI arrived at the Rayburn House Office Building at approximately 6:20 pm on Saturday night, May 20, 2006, having given no prior warning that they had a search warrant to the House leadership, the U.S. Capitol Police, or the House Office of General Counsel. At approximately 6:43 pm FBI agents entered Congressman Jefferson's office, and they remained there until approximately 1:00 pm on Sunday afternoon. The FBI did not give the House or Congressman Jefferson an opportunity to go to court to challenge the application for the warrant or its procedures prior to the execution of the warrant, and did not allow House attorneys or Congressman Jefferson's attorneys to witness the search as required by Rule 41 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.

Question 9: Is this a smart battle for Congress to fight?

Perhaps not. Defending Constitutional principles - particularly those related to institutional balances of power - is often not politically expedient and often results in bad publicity. But it is vital for the House to defend the Constitutional principles of Separation of Powers and Legislative Branch independence, not for the benefit of the Members themselves, but for the benefit of Americans everywhere who value their freedoms. Americans of all political stripes should appreciate this. However, conservatives, perhaps even more than others, should understand and appreciate the importance of public officials putting principle ahead of politics and standing up for the Constitution against the prevailing political winds.

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RedState Scoop: House Ldsp Talking Points 37 Comments (0 topical, 37 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »

Should be impeached or at the very least removed from office. I don't know what kind of bubble these people are living in but I want to know what part of the constitution grants congress people diplomatic immunity for their offices.

Judges offices dont have this kind of privilege, executive branch offices don't have this kind of privilege, even the presidents papers don't have this kind of privilege from criminal investigation. How does congress figure they do ?

The support that congress should have a right to this protected status is clear evidence that they do not get what the rest of country feels is correct. The rest of the country will say that congress is entitled to no special protection from the legal process. I would be willing to bet good money that the polls would come back that Americans feel their elected reps should be held to a higher standard than regular citizens not a lesser one.(Kenedys not withstanding)

As a legal argument, it blows chunks. But in this day and age, form always trumps substance so it probably will drag Bush down another two or three points by the time the media inundates the public with the Joe Wilsons of constitutional law. The hearings will be a triumph for faux outrage as we hear, repeatedly, how the president has violated more than two hundred years of common law. And as Exhibit A, his sealing of the records will be held up as proof positive that he knows he was wrong.

Make that a six-point poll drop if the pack plays it right.

It seems so ridiculous to everybody about this entire situation.  It in no way affects speech and debate and is just Congress protecting its own.  I'm just sorta surprised that he hasn't resigned or been primaried out.  The only nice thing about this situation is that Jefferson is just another corrupt Congressman like Traficant, and not part of any sort of systematic graft.

so call me an unloyal Republican.  You know what?  I am a loyal one but not a Koolaid drinker

What a bunch of self-righteous bilgewater.

If the leadership of Congress was so concerned about its precious prerogatives it would've acted against Jefferson & delivered the documents months ago to avoid just this "horrible" situation.

They didn't do it because they don't care about the rule of law, they care about their prerogatives.

That seems to be the burning question in my mind for November.  Wouldn't be surprised if lots of other folks are considering that also.

the Teapot Dome Scandal."

Well then.  I can no longer dispute the wisdom of Hastert and Pelosi.  After all, scandals occuring before the enactment of the Income Tax have a real and direct relevance to today.

I wonder if there are any lessons we can draw between Iraq and the XYZ affair...

    We are not coming to the defense of Rep. Jefferson.

Just what they needed... the "I am not a crook" speech. That worked so well for Nixon.

of a magician, distracting you with one hand while the other palms the coin.

All that is just wordy reasons why they're being silly, distracting from the main point with impressively flowery and roundabout language.

Message begins...

Stop. Digging.

Message ends...

These talking points are bs.  Unless you believe in the living constitution, there is nothing in the language of our constitution which remotely protects a congressman's office from search and seizure.

As a lawyer, I can tell you that no judge is going to buy into any of that hogwash that they're spouting.  

As one of your commenters said, either Hastert is stupid or he thinks we're stupid.  I believe the former is true.

If GWB and the Republicans, both house and senate, are trying to lose as many seats as possible in November, they could not be doing a better job.

The days of holding your nose and voting Republican are over.

Boy oh boy by kowalski

That has to be the largest pile of circumlocutory shenanigans ever to be released by anyone, anywhere.  

"You can't get inside his MIND!  His MIND!  That's why you don't know whether it's legislative or not!  How can you say without being inside his MIND?!??!  Checks n' balanz!  Checks n' balanz!"

I bow... by Doug A

down before you and praise your courage.

In 2004 President Bush and Senator Santorum came rushing to Arlen Specter's rescue when it became apparent that Pat Toomey might upset him in the Pennsylvania primaries. I'm a fairly tolerant individual but this was the final straw. In my book your talk talks and your walk talks but your walk talks louder than your talk talks. Now the GOP must compete with the Libertarian and Constitution parties for my vote. I vote my conscience and let God work out the rest.

I just sent a nice email to Deborah Price through the House Republican Conference telling her that I consider this to be one of the worst moves they have pulled and that I will not be supporting any member or candidate that continues to support this indefensible and extreme position.

My God by kowalski

I gave up lying to my first girlfriend like that in the first two hours after I met her.  These people, apparently, have never learned.  ;)

But of course by ConservativeMutant

The French are mercenary backstabbers. ;-)

Like the sig, BTW. "One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will..."

  1. Pelosi only called for Jefferson's resignation from one committee, not anything beyond that.
  2. You are defending his activities by insisting that your collective will would have been to withhold evidence of bribery from the People of the United States.  That is the separation of powers, not absolute immunity, but the implementation of constitutional procedures, such as getting a warrant.
  3. "Speech and Debate" -- Jefferson was not kept from his duties at any time; once the criminal investigation is complete, I fully support any efforts to return the siezed papers back into the Congressional Record and the eagerly anticipated forthcoming William Jefferson Separation of Powers Wing of the Library of Congress.  Until that time, Congress will have to make do without the materials seized.  Actually, for full compliance with "Speech and Debate," the FBI should publish photocopies in the New York Times for Jefferson's office's use.  Hithertofore, any "Speech and Debate" assertions will be referred to America's Paper of Record.
  4. See #3, America's Paper of Record, but since you bring it up again, does direct evidence of a crime fall under "Legislative Speech and Debate?"  Think about it before you answer.  
  5. See America's Paper of Record.
  6. "Consider the Precedent" "Oh, won't someone please think of the children!!"  Please consider this your wakeup call that the judiciary signs search warrants.  Please avail yourselves of the opportunity to change the law if you find it inadequate toward warehousing evidence of your sundry crimes.  Please.
  7. "NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW, JUST AS NO BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT IS ABOVE THE CONSTITUTION." Yeah, and the good people of Mr. Jefferson's district are interested in where the FBI ends up.  I guarantee.
  8. The Q & A (for us simple folk, naturally)

x "Sphere of Power & Responsibility" OOooo! Can I play? I have a +15 Vorpal Frostbrand!

x "Speech & Debate" ...please consult America's Paper of Record

x "the Executive Branch which possesses enormous powers such as the police and law enforcement powers" You've convinced me!

x Supreme Court can consult America's Paper of Record, too...

x "Return the Documents b/c of the Speech or Debate privilege" ...ok, they'll be in America's Paper of Record this Sunday...

x "Why never before now?" Because Congresspersons have never used their offices to hide criminal evidence before.  bwahahahahaha, I'm just kidding.  Like you suggest, ask the Justice Department. Oh, and the judge.

x Inter-branch Accommodation -- There might be something to this argument, but the judge didn't see it that way.  Let's let the judge in Jefferson's trial make a JUDGEMENT as to whether any evidence was obtained illegitimately.  Let Congress issue Censures to the executives involved, if it'll make you feel better; heckfire, impeach somebody if they've committed a crime.

x Asserting that Jefferson has an absolute right to segregate "privileged" papers from "criminal evidence" papers? Boy, you bozos SURE aren't from Louisiana!

x Was the warrant served properly?  Ok, on this one, you've got a little leeway, as I don't know to whom the warrant was served, and I don't know if a defendant has an absolute right to be present when his office is raided, like if he's out of the country or somesuch.

x "Defending Constitutional Principles" and Political Expedience --- where was this moral indignation when any number of unconstitutional laws were passed?  If your guy wasn't so stinking filthily dirty, I'd be much more on your side.

Amazing by buckeye

They are really determined to dig their own graves with this one. We've finally found something the House GOP is willing to go to the mat on... not limited federal spending, not supply and demand solutions to energy problems, not Social Security reform, not tax reform, but rather the absolute immunity of Congressional offices from criminal investigation. As "statesmen" and "defenders of the Constitution" they'll risk it all for that one.

It's time for Rep. Flake and the true convervative Republicans to bunker down. We're not going to get anywhere until the current leadership is thoroughly vetted.

Well said by kowalski

And in the days and months ahead, these people in Congress have a lot of soul-searching to do.  I want to vote Republican again, I truly do.  But I cannot any longer vote for a Republican Congress that ignores the people who got it there.  I didn't do that:  I was a swing voter in the last two election transitions.  I voted for Clinton both times, and only had my Republican "conversion" after I woke up a little.  But I came late to the party.  The people who have been around longer than I have, and who have worked harder than I have, deserve some seniority and they deserve their voices to be heard more than I do mine.  This document is a betrayal of their trust, on top of a number of other betrayals.  And it has to stop.  

...in connection to the Teapot Dome scandal...

SINCE IT DID NOT EXIST YET!

So...any bets on how many seats the Dems will take in November?  I know a lot of conservatives who were willing to hold their noses and pull the GOP lever just to keep Pelosi, Reid and their ilk from taking control of Congress.  This latest fiasco is causing them to make other plans for Election Day.

Why should any other Branch of government be more concerned for the sanctity and privelge of the Legislative Branch -  than members of that Branch whose individual and collective conduct demeans, demotes, criminalizes and otherwise abuses those very privelges?

When and by what authority did the U.S. Congress assume the mantle of absolute and irreproachable power of Middle Age monarchies?

Put Jefferson in jail on suspicion of . . . . ANYTHING until the indictment.

Remove Hastert's congressional parking pass - and sell tickets to watch the dolt starve to death circling the Capitol looking for a parking spot.

Move over, Alice. by Flagstaff

Wonderland is getting very crowded.

The Speaker has known about this subpoena for eight months.  He and the leadership have had that long to convince Jefferson to comply.  They have not.

The Judge was convinced.  He's not part of the Executive.  Unless the argument is being made that the Congress is superior to both other branches, they haven't a leg to stand on.

If they wish, the SCOTUS will give them expedited review.  It will be 9-0 against the House, though, so Bush's 45-day delay gives them time to save face by forgetting the whole thing.

45 days by Darin H

I hope President Bush gives them the same "45 days" that Congress gave Dubai Ports World.

Thanks by Philosofy101

Ulysses is one of my favorites.  If you've ever read The Wanderer and The Seafarer, that's great stuff too.

Upon reading the defense of their objection I am willing to grant them a very limited valid cause for concern. It is unseemly that the executive branch should discover a power which grants them direct and unrestrained access to the all the records of a legislator's official deliberations.    For that reason, I am willing to grant that Bush's sealed period is a good precedent, if they use it to successfully work out how the information relevant to the criminal investigation is sorted out from the rest that should be privileged. That's more privilege than the rest of us would get, but I can see the larger 'co-equal' principles that it serves.

Beyond that, the legislator's arguments betray them. By claiming that: there can be no search unless it "can be conducted consistent with the Separation of Powers principle and Congressman Jefferson's Speech or Debate rights", they are creating a massive loophole in which to ferret away their illegal activity.

And "...the Justice Department could execute search warrants on such Congressional committees and seize the documents that demonstrate their own misdeeds. This would seriously erode, if not effectively end, Congress's ability to conduct oversight of the Executive Branch, to the very great detriment of the American people."

Hmm, seems they feel that if they don't get immunity for their own misdeeds they won't be able to protect us from the misdeeds of others. I had a disgusting feeling that that is the real motivation behind their objections. I am however stunned that they admitted it. Strange that they ignore the obvious solution: Don't be a corrupt hypocrit in the first place. This really does expose them to both the charge of corruption and stupidity; as if anyone would be persuaded because such a bargain, a deal with the devil, is necessary and beneficial.

amongst the blockheads that supposedly represent us, I'm in the mood for more Tennyson:



For I, being simple, thought to work His will,

And have but stricken with the sword in vain;

And all whereon I leaned in wife and friend

Is traitor to my peace, and all my realm

Reels back into the beast, and is no more.

That would be a violation of the Speech and Debate clause.

The problem here is that while the congressional perogative is valid, with it goes an equal congressional responsibility, which has been abdicated. This creates a chaotic situation in which some authority of government is necessarily undermined, and the only question left is which is the lesser of two evils. When that choice is between a known evil, and a potential evil, the known evil usually looses, even if the potential evil is significantly larger. We did it in the civil war, and with the President's ability to keep HIS papers private during the Nixon administration.

No, I still don't like any of the options or Bush's decision to seal the documents for 45 days. A pox on all your houses I said before, and it looks like I'll be saying it again for a while.

After looking at the clause again, it provides an exception for cases of felony. I don't think $100,000 bribery charge is a misdemeanor.

But I'll still wish a plague on all their houses.

that Pelosi will be third in line for the White House come January? Imagine being one perfect terrorist attack from having our first woman President....

The final nail in the coffin will be if he caves on immigration, which given the way things are going seems likely.

...Unless you believe in the living constitution...

I've no problem with... by Gerry Daly

... being a heartbeat away from the first woman President.

Which woman, however, makes all the difference in the world.

from having our first woman President be Nancy Pelosi....

Didn't mean to imply we shouldn't have a woman President, just not THIS woman.

Question 10 by LoveThatConstitution

Question 10: Congressman, have you ever actually READ the Constitution?

Well, no, I did have a staffer give me a short synopsis, though. Why do you ask?

Then, put Jefferson in jail.

A felony is a felony is a felony is a felony - except - when purpetrated within the halls of Congress by a member of the political trogyldyte (sp?) species who, after a couple of hundred years, have befouled the building as bats do a bat cave?

How about this:  Let's take the path followed by our very own founders - enable a new constitutional convention - and begin again.

All current elected officials and those elected anytime, anywhere in the past 50 years would be barred from participation.

A thought; only a thought.

By-the-way, thanks for a thoughtful response.

Actually by Joliphant

The the FBI was around at the time but it was called the U.S. Bureau of investigation at the time. I thought that it wasnt around as well but I checked on their site (www.fbi.gov).

 
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