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FRONT PAGE CONTRIBUTOR

Winning The Future With High Speed Rail

Yet Another WTF Moment Brought To You By The Obama Administration

“For too long we’ve stayed on the sidelines and watched the rest of the world eat our lunch in the high speed passenger train game,” he said. “Well, let me tell you something Mister and Mrs. John Q. America, we’ve had our Sputnik moment wake up call and we’ve stopped hitting the snooze button. When I go flying up that ramp and across that canyon on March 6, dangerous crosswinds permitting, it will send a message loud and clear to the Japanese and Uzbeks and Cameroons – it is on, amigo.”
Vice President Joe Biden as quoted by Iowahawk.

A key part of the Winning The Future (WTF) strategy the White House is pushing is based on me-too-ism. If another country is doing something then we have to do it. Shanghai students score high on standadized tests? Then we have to catch up. China has a the largest solar power research facility? Then we need one to. The Soviet Union has launched Sputnik? Then by golly we will launch one too.

High speed rail also gets the Administration’s competitive juices flowing. Faced with mounting deficits, flaccid consumer demand, and a GOP House that has vowed to cut $100 billion from federal spending this year, the Administration has proposed spend $53 billion on high speed rail largely because some other countries are doing it too.

From the AP

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is calling for a six-year, $53 billion spending plan for high-speed rail, as he seeks to use infrastructure spending to jump-start job creation.

[...]

Obama’s push for high-speed rail spending is part of his broad goal of creating jobs in the short-term and increasing American competitiveness for the future through new funding for infrastructure, education and innovation. During last month’s State of the Union address, Obama said he wanted to give 80 percent of Americans access to high-speed rail within 25 years.

I am a fan of rail transportation. I take it to work every day covering some 60 miles in about 40 minutes. But I don’t fool myself that I’m not being heavily subsized by the feds and my state government. Were the passenger line I ride required to break even I would be driving my car in short order. But that is regular rail, sharing tracks with CSX freights. It isn’t high speed rail on a dedicated track.

High speed rail is a vanity project. As the WSJ pointed out there are two high speed rail lines in the world that actually turn a profit: Tokyo-Osaka and Paris-Lyon.

Proponents also claim that high-speed rail is profitable, but this too is off the mark. Internationally, only two segments have ever broken even: Tokyo to Osaka and Paris to Lyon.

Ridership in these markets has been bolstered by high gasoline prices and one-way highway tolls of $40 and $100, respectively. These and other foreign routes have attracted much of their ridership from a strong core of rail passengers that does not exist in the U.S.

The Heritage paper America’s Coming High-Speed Rail Financial Disaster also explodes the myth that rail in Europe and Japan is self sufficient. It isn’t.

In 2008, Amtrak’s inspector general published an analysis of government subsidies to passenger rail in Europe and compared them to Amtrak’s subsidies. One purpose of the review was to address the contention that passenger rail in other countries, especially HSR, operates at a profit (i.e., without subsidies). For 1995-2006, the study found that the governments of Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Spain, Denmark, and Austria spent “a combined total of $42 billion annually on their national passenger railroads.” The $42 billion that these six countries, which have a combined population of 269 million, spent on just passenger rail in 2006 is roughly proportionate to the $54.8 billion (most of which was funded by user fees) that the government of the United States (population of 309 million) spent on all forms of transportation, including highways, rail, aviation, water transport, and mass transit.

Even if we assume away the perpetual subsidies to keep high speed rail in operation the environmental regulations will add tens if not hundreds of millions of additional dollars to the bill and we will all pay for the privelege of letting Joe Biden speed his way home to Delaware every time we buy anything. The plan is for high speed rail to use the Amtrak model and use existing freight rails. This brings two problems: increased regulation and decreased freight service. From The Economist:

Their main complaint, however, is that one Amtrak passenger train at 110mph will remove the capacity to run six freight trains in any corridor. Nor do they believe claims that PTC, due to be in use by 2015, will increase capacity by allowing trains to run closer together in safety. So it will cost billions to adapt and upgrade the lines to accommodate both a big rise in freight traffic and an unprecedented burgeoning of intercity passenger services. Indeed, some of the money that the White House has earmarked will go on sidings where freight trains can be parked while intercity expresses speed by.

Federal and state grants will flow to the freight railroads to help them upgrade their lines for more and faster passenger trains. But already rows are breaking out over the strict guidelines the FRA will lay down about operations on the upgraded lines, such as guarantees of on-time performance with draconian penalties if they are breached and the payment of indemnities for accidents involving passenger trains. The railroads are also concerned that the federal government will be the final arbiter of how new capacity created with the federal funds will be allocated between passenger and freight traffic. And they are annoyed that there was little consultation before these rules were published.

Far from creating jobs and prosperity, high speed rail holds the promise of doing just the opposite. It will require constant subsidies in order to operate. By using the existing freight rail network it will make the freight lines less profitable and ultimately make them, too, the recipient of government subsidies.

COMMENTS

  • http://www.FranBaker.com frankieb

    How much more money do you want to borrow from China?

  • Goldwater_Conservative

    high speed rail would have been great. When everyone goes to town for something. These days with suburbanization, there is no central geographical point where everyone is trying to go. Thats way they almost always opt to take their own transportation and light rail just cant turn a profit. Its another idea thats great in theory, horrible in reality.

    • streiff

      80 or 90 years when most cities still had trolly services. The real problem with rail travel in the US is getting to and from the train because most cities don’t have reliable mass transit.

      • Menlo

        I think most cities need mass transit, though I think it is should be handled at the county or municipal level rather than the federal (or state) level.

        • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

          certain cities and metro areas that desire them and can pay for them, are the best way. I use MARTA when going to sports events and courthouses in downtown Atlanta.

        • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

          I have heard many many people over the years talk about the need for mass transit, but except in a very few situations whenever those things are built, they are under-utilized.

          Believe it or not but roads, trucks and automobiles are efficient, They are by far the most cost effective, and the most flexible way to move people and goods around.

          I suppose subways might be useful in some cities, but they are prohibitive to build. You could not build something like the New York system with today’s costs, it would bankrupt the city and the state.

          • Menlo

            Some people, including myself, are either are unable or unwilling to drive and to maintain a car. I also think the increased volume of traffic, especially with all the people who choose to live so far from their work, is excessive. I’m baffled that it doesn’t bother more people to the point of demanding such a solution.

            I don’t have anything against “roads. trucks, and automobiles” in general, and I think they are of vital importance. I never implied otherwise. Still, I’d have no problem with higher taxes, including on personal vehicle ownership, to help encourage utilization and/or to help pay.

          • gpclaw

            So because you made the personal decision not to drive and maintain a car, the rest of us should be on the hook to subsidize your travel? That’s being just a little bit selfish don’t you think?

            “High speed” rail is nothing more than one giant boondoggle. First of all, the rail being proposed is not “high speed”. The rail lines being proposed will maybe reach speeds as high as a whopping 60 MPH. Secondly, if we want to get an idea of what the public appetite for HSR, we can look to AMTRAK’s numbers to get an indication of what sort of impact future rail will have on travel patterns.

            “In 2010, Amtrak carried 29.1 million passengers for the entire year. That’s about one-twenty-fifth of annual air travel (2010 estimate: 725 million passengers). It’s also roughly a quarter of daily automobile commuters (124 million in 2008). Measured by passenger-miles traveled, Amtrak represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the national total.”

          • Menlo

            I said that it should only be locally funded and managed. I do not support this stupid high speed rail project or anything else federally funded and managed.

            Locally, it’s not just about me. There are lots of other people who are actually unable to drive, not by “personal decision.” But even if we did drive, the streets around here are too crowded and getting worse and more dangerous. It seems like everyone here has these big giant vans that are unsightly and hog the roads and make it difficult to see when driving.

            Of course part of the problem may be that TXDOT is just plain stupid and incompetent.

  • jmimac351

    so people in Central Florida who oppose this nonsense can have the last laugh. Charlie Crist and the REPUBLICAN Florida legislature jammed this down our throats after being defeated at the ballot box. The guy who defeated Alan Grayson, Daniel Webster, also supported this boondoggle.

    It remains to be seen how this will work out as the high spending Republicans in the Florida House are squeeling like stuck, bloated pigs at the fiscal determination being shown by Gov Scott.

    Career politicians love spending money, regardless of stripe.

  • streetwise

    Much of the land is mountainous and rural. A huge portion of the people live in the Tokaido corridor that hugs the eastern coast. On the relative size map shown here (hopefully, I I did the coding right), that would be in strip that runs from the northern part of coastal North Carolina (Tokyo area) to the southern part (Osaka). That’s the kind of density that makes high speed rail commercially viable.

    We already have high speed rail in the one part of the US that seems to make sense – Amtrak’s Acela service in the northeast.

    We can’t afford anything else at this point.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • Tbone

    I think I know why people buy them as opposed to plane tickets.

    They want to go from city core to city core in less than 3 hours. If the train can’t do that, they fly. Plus, as streiff says, there has to be public transit available in both places.

    By example High speed rail London to Lyon 6+ hours, plane 3 hrs including airport travel time.

    Plus flying is cheaper and always will be.

    • EagleWatcher

      The Accela ticket from NY to Boston is about $200. You can take a bus to NY for about $60.

      Do the math. It’s not just about speed.

  • fpete13527

    Rail is the worst possible choice across the board. It is the Obamacare of the DOT.

    Bottom lines below, repeated from another comment I made on different post:

    Videos
    http://bit.ly/bcZkz8
    http://bit.ly/4rRl9H

    MM Slams Biden?s latest idiotic statements
    http://bit.ly/fMCNqL
    http://bit.ly/geDZjw

    Definitive Info. from two top experts Randall O?toole and Wendell Cox
    http://bit.ly/bfdKAl
    http://bit.ly/fdIML

    • fpete13527

      …..probably by the person who made the next comment.

      Here is long form link to detailed analysis from Reason Research Group on rail for Florida. The bottom line recommendation….don’t do it.

      (Long form link)
      http://reason.org/files/florida_high_speed_rail_analysis.pdf

  • jesus_said

    time

  • Finrod

    Obama’s determined to win the future by losing the present.

  • tarnation

    I agree with most of what you’re saying in terms of drawbacks of putting in high speed rail in the US. It’s costly and it won’t pay for itself and, chiefly I think, sharing rails with freight is just not that smart.

    That said, people still have a need to travel long distances quickly and as a concept high speed rail is a good one. Air travel is becoming ever more onerous and intolerable. I’m not sure what’s going to get here first: the country realizing “threat level orange” is meaningless and it’s way past time to rein in the TSA or a high speed rail system being built that negates the need to put up with the TSA any more. Whichever the case, I’m looking forward to that day.

    • fpete13527
      • Tbone

        the natives have tar for brains. This one is proof of that.

    • Read Chesterton
      • carolina

        when he was ‘selling’ this high speed rail idea.
        I have zero confidence that he knows what he is talking about.

      • carolina

        when he was ‘selling’ this high speed rail idea.
        I have zero confidence that he knows what he is talking about.

    • williamjameson

      Seriously, as stated by others $200 for Boston to NYC when a car can
      make the 220 mile trip for less. If time is a factor, fly or take the train but its not economical for the poor or many middle class types to use rail or the airlines unless they have the income to spare.

      Liberals make lousy arguments about helping the needy…….they are speaking of themselves and the UNIONS who will get the contracts. Fact is this idea is for the business class and I doubt any line will ever break even.

      You must be liberal considering the rant about threat level orange and the lack of fiscal common sense. Air travel isn’t that bad, plan ahead and cooperate with the scan. Fyi Napolitano just increased the threat level, its a needed tool to give the people the heads up. Its not meaningless unless your so open minded that your brain could fall out.

  • johnt

    The children are running the country, another toy gizmo on somebody else’s $tab.

  • romeg

    Is not the phrase that leaps to my mind whenever Joe Biden is being quoted.

    In fact, regardless of what this administration does, each one constitutes a “WTF” moment.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    a nineteenth century technology.

  • bobmontgomery

    ..then get on him and trot to the village bus stop, where the attendant takes him into the corral with the other donkeys. Then I get on the subsidized bus service into the city and the HSR depot. After going through security for the second time, I enter the departure lounge, pay $5 for a cup of coffee and wait. Finally on the way, we zip from Muncie to Anderson in two minutes; where we have to wait 30 minutes for boarding passengers because of a disturbance at security. Continuing, we arrive in Fortville thirty seconds later, but are forced to depart and reboard due to some misunderstanding, or misidentification or altered threat level, or something. Reboarding, we have to go through security again before continuing on the final 15-second leg of our trip to Indianapolis. Later that day, I arrive at the HSR depot eager to zip right home to feed and water my donkey. As I approach the station, I see people milling about and shouting and carrying signs saying “We demand…#$%^ …. Local 2367, National Brotherhood of (*$&@ .” And the electronic arrival/departure board is flashing bright red cancellation information. I think of my donkey.

  • jiminga

    second, we really don’r want it; third, the AMTRAK/CSX road bed is not capable of handling HSR; fourth, in the NE corridor there are too many crossings for HSR to be safe.

    The US has arguably the best highway system in the world and better airline service, all to serve a huge geographic area, unlike Japan and France.

    HSR is folly, being proposed by clowns that have never looked at the facts.

  • williamjameson

    “Hope and American$ Change” shall be the company mantra! Pass that name around, lets pin it to Obama’s legacy.

    Have they considered that Enviro-Facists are against building new electric power plants including NatGas and nuclear. Maybe they could build Windmills by the train tracks to power the trains, rofl!

    With increase use of electric cars we’ll see grid demand exceeding capacity nationwide. We already have constant brown out zones.

    So if they really plan to do this then go with Diesel power locomotives.

    • gpclaw

      We would have also accepted SCAMTRAK

  • http://www.wojworld.com The Only Woj

    right? right?!

  • n2dstormwego

    Barbara Walters: ?Elisabeth, what do you think about the possibility for a High Speed Whale??

    Elisabeth Hasselbeck: ?Listen, if Rosie comes back on the show, I?m leaving!?

  • blooch

    Eisenhower had the Interstate Highway system?
    Then Obama will have the High Speed Rail Network.

    This one is important to him as a physical monument to his legacy, and he’s going to fight hard for it. May he end up with nothing more than a monorail from the airport to his presidential library…in Hononlulu.

  • intrepid_one

    Doesn’t it sound good though? We can be just like Europe… Why doesn’t anyone take the time to see if it makes sense for the U.S. High speed rail is not feasible in the U.S. for a number of reason pointed out by Streiff and here; http://wp.me/p1jgsh-13

  • fishbreath

    …the WSJ is wrong. The Sapsan express between Moscow and St. Petersburg is also profitable.

    It’s also a great example of the only way to do high-speed rail in a low-density environment: connect two big population centers, provide first-class airline accommodations at coach-class prices, and make the train stations more convenient than the airport. There are a very few places in the US where it would work. The only one that comes to mind is the DC-New York-Boston corridor, and there’s already a high-speed train running on that route.

    • gpclaw

      I agree that there may be locations where HSR makes sense and has value to members of those communities. Where that is the case, those states and communities that will benefit from HSR should be the ones responsible for paying the costs to build the darn thing. To me, the debate is less about “should we build HSR” and more about “who should pay for HSR”. As a resident of GA, I see no reason why my tax dollars should be used to support a rail line connecting San Francisco CA to Seattle WA. If their is economic value to such a line then the cities and states involved should have no problem raising the revenue required from the local tax base. Then again, if their were an economic value, these things would have been built a long time ago.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    For years, rail transportation safely took a member of my family and his mechanized unit all over God’s green earth. They spent many comfortable hours racking-out on the luggage racks. But I am fairly certain it was taxpayer subsidized. I’ll have to check.

    Seriously. Who actually believes the original mode of quickly transporting our western plains in the 1800′s, on steroids, is really the key to our future?

    They have to be delusional.

    • acat

      And I don’t think we’d want to replace long-distance freight trains with trucks… but .. bullet trains really only make sense if they’re *faster* than flying, or if they can offer something flying doesn’t, like more comfort.

      Mew

      • Marcus_Traianus

        For what- all those new green jobs in the city? No wait. Ive got it. We can make high-speed trains traveling to all the new coal mine jobs. That ways folks can enjoy a good Chardonnay and foie gras in the city and then go back to slogging coal on Monday.

        It’s a waste of taxpayer money. If there was a profit ot be made private industry would be all over it like Obama on a Marlboro.

        Woof.

        • acat

          Uses existing right-of-way and in some cases existing track. Saves money over acquiring land to build a road.

          Uses separate land from the highways, saves money over widening the roads.

          Cheaper to move 100 people by train than 100 people in 50 midsize cars. (and last time I looked, most people who commute by car don’t carpool, so I’m being generous here)

          Requires less parking, less congestion of streets.

          As to private industry involvement, one of the reasons you’re not seeing it is that the bar to entry is artificially high, thanks to the government regulation of rail as an industry. If, for example, Union Pacific wanted to introduce passenger service on their existing rail between Boisie and Pocatello, they can’t. Amtrak must manage that service.

          Remove the artifical bar, let Joe Biden’s baby die, and we’ll see if private companies can see enough of a need to fill it.

          Mew

          • Common_Cents

            MN light rail ridership revenue covers less than 20% of operating costs, let alone capital cost. I’d like to see real numbers under any scenario that could support of the claim that rail Is cheaper. Maybe cheaper if you consider taxpayer subsidy as free money and not a cost.

            Buses are where it’s at, they just aren’t “cool” to ride on. Libs might ride on an LRT once in awhile but a bus is beneath them.

            Bus routes are infinitely flexible to accommodate demand changes where LRT gives Govt much more control over central planning thru LRT. This is a big driver behind the central planners on the left. They want us to live in smaller footprint high density housing.

          • JakePrime

            Buses are useless for the distances and traffic situations covered by light rail. They are not comparable forms of transportation. Using a bus to enter a dense urban center is not reliable on a regular basis.

          • Common_Cents

            Yes, light rail can work with enough density. We maybe have a handful of cities who will ever reach that density? For the rest, buy an efficient car, carpool, ride a bike, bus, plane or obummers magic carpet.

            Show me the hard numbers that high speed rail is more efficient/costs less than other forms of transportation and I’ll get on board. I’m hearing numbers of tens of billions for proposed lines?

            What would the ridership fees be if the high speed rails had to pass on the capital cost and the operating costs to the riders?

            Jake, so you’d be ok with subsidizing the entire purchase of a new car AND pay 80% of all maintenance/fuel costs for me? Those are the numbers for light rail at least for MN. Sounds like a great deal for me on the backs of taxpayers!

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    • bobmontgomery
  • chamberD

    The question remains: Who profited — financially and politically — from the Range Fuel boondoggle? There is always someone making out like a bandit when the Feds loot taxpayers to prosper their cronies — it just so happens that in this case the project also appeases the hard-left environmentalist base of the Democrat Party.

    Every — and I do mean EVERY — conservative should get a copy of The Myth of the Robber Barons by Burton W. Folsom. Mr. Folsom describes the difference between market entrepreneurs and their opposite, those businessmen who seek and require government (taxpayer) subsidies to make a go of their enterprises. The former are leaner and more efficient and successful, while the later could not make it as a going concern if it were not for TAXPAYER dollars. These businesses would fail, as they should, due to mismanagement, waste, and inefficiencies; in addition, they sometimes are in a business that has no real customer base, since their rivals in the market — the market entrepreneurs — create superior quality products, have superior service, and greater efficiencies to such an extent as to secure market share, leaving their gov’t subsidized competitors in the dust. Without subsidies, the cronies cannot survive and deserve to fail.

    This is the free market system that our opposition on the left cannot abide: For one, it promotes personal freedom; for two, it greatly limits the corruption and collusion between business and politicians that greatly enriches the few (the ruling class) at the expense of the hard-working taxpayer.

  • seattleprogressive

    I didn’t realize that only two rail systems pay for themselves – that’s pretty awful. But I’d like to know how many roads pay for themselves. Rail is a money pit, I can accept that. But is it more expensive than our massive highway system?

    • NRPax

      First, you have the costs involved of reinforcing existing rail lines to take high speed trains. Then you get the maintenance costs of said lines. Rails aren’t something you can just lay down and forget about.

      As it was pointed up above, you have the quote from The Economist about removing the capacity to run six freight trains in any corridor just to run one high speed rail service. This is going to cost a lot because freight companies are going to have to reroute how goods get shipped. You may find that the roads are going to be crowded with tractor trailers and the costs of goods are going to shoot up just so someone can kick back on a train and watch the landscape.

      Now take a look at the initial building of high speed rails that aren’t on existing lines. You are looking at an expense of several million dollars per mile on account of the construction as well as dealing with the bureaucracies that are going to demand their piece of the action. Oh, and if one section of the rail is found to be the habitat of some obscure animal, you can count on years of delays. And since the environmental movement in this country seems to have the motto of BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything), you are going to have to deal with legal delays as well.

      Now if you are going to install new rail lines, where are they going to go? The best locations in terms of getting a train from point A to point B have people living there. How much money do you think would get spent in reparations as folks get Eminent Domain applied to them?

      An extensive high-speed rail sounds nice in this country on paper as part of an alternate timeline story set in the Old West or the early part of the 1900s. In reality, it’s not very feasible and the money would be better spent on maintaining our roads.

    • streiff

      is the way it is funded. The highway system is taxpayer funded, rail is supposed to pay for itself. Were I galactic commander, the rail infrastructure would be funded from a general transportation pool of funds and the service would have to support itself.

    • Common_Cents

      Every last thing you buy is delivered via roads. You might as well leverage it with passenger transportation. Passenger rail offers little or nothing to supply chain logistics.

    • gpclaw

      The federal gas tax levied on each gallon on gasoline raises more revenue than needed to maintain our highway system..

  • dsmurf

    me too, but as for getting your own oil and gas as aggressively as the Chinese aggressively do well not so much, that’s just too much of anti green way of looking at things, investment in rail – another WTF government spending program, just calling a spade after all, and it is a day late and dollar short,
    I remember travelling through Europe on rail back in the early 1980s and many of those trains were very fast already.
    So when the sociallists get a carbon trading system going, its another Sputnik moment for the green earth mother worshipper in chief who can’t get the coal country Senators in his own party along for the ride either.

    I prefer to see the coal on rail cars in the states and driving everywhere else in this great country, thank you very much indeed.

  • avlconservative

    So when the economy continues to fail and I loose my job, the middle east falls to radical Islam and I can’t afford to put gas in my car and the post office is no longer able to deliver mail I will have a way to go get my unemployment check.

    We are not Europe and when the central planners attempt this disaster it will fail, Amtrak anyone. Henry Ford knew that Americans were independent, our country was too spread out and large and his vision is still valid today. VW makes a great car that gets 50 mpg and still have plenty of power. BMW has been working on hydrogen for 20 years and is ready when we are. Innovation from entrepreneurs will be the answer not central planners who have a limo. For large cities where there is a city center, like Atlanta, let them build and pay for it if there can be a profit made. Our cars are symbols or our independence and Liberty. If HSR were a good model in America on a national model someone would have been able to make a profit with it.

  • bobmontgomery

    I’m not one for pop expressions, acronyms, et cetera, but when European, or Socialist, or ‘Global’, or UN arguments are put forth in favor of things like….HSR, electric cars, windmills, solar panels, collectivist arrangements, vegetarianism, Eastern meditation rituals, etcetera, a good response might be “This Is America, You Du—–.” It could be used on protest signs, in Op-ed pieces,campaign slogans, presidential debates, and so on.

  • wmeyer

    There is excellent documentation of public transit follies on www.publicpurpose.com, by a gentleman whose career is in analysis of such projects. It is madness to fund these.