Auto Bailout Bill; I Really Want To See Obama Squirm On This


Sorry Bambi. The auto bailout is going to be all yours. It looks like your actually going to have to a make a tough decision. One that actually upsets people. I know you’ve never had to do that before. You’ll survive.

I like the way you and your supporters have embraced the “new tone”, but you can’t fool us. We all know that you just want Republicans to go easy on you during your “honeymoon” and that you are hoping Bush will do as much dirty work as possible before he leaves. No el presidente, the auto bailout is all yours. But I sense the AP understands your predicament and is getting nervous.

Hardline opponents of an auto industry bailout branded the industry a “dinosaur” whose “day of reckoning” is near, while Democrats pledged Sunday to do their best to get Detroit a slice of the $700 billion Wall Street rescue in this week’s lame-duck session of Congress.

Oh how quickly those who question government bailouts have become “hardline opponents”. Of course, Democrats are just angling for “Detroit” to get a “slice” of the “rescue”. We “bail out” greedy meanies who wear suits and ties to work. We “rescue” the pathetic auto industry. Of course, they are doing this for “Detroit”. Suddenly, the AP adopts a holistic approach. Huh.

The disagreement raises the possibility that any help for automakers will have to wait until 2009, when President-elect Barack Obama takes office and the Democrats increase their majority in the Senate… But if the Republicans are seen as neglecting an industry that inevitably collapses, they risk lasting political problems in Midwestern industrial states that can swing for either political party.

Oh no, this may be postponed until 2009. Obama might actually have make a tough decision! But wait, it’s not really a tough decision. The AP is quick to remind us that if “Republicans are seen as neglecting an industry that inevitably collapses, they risk lasting political problems in Midwestern industrial states that can swing for either political party.” Really? Detroit may not vote Republican any time soon. I can see how that’s a real concern for the Republican Party. Hey AP, aside from alienating the “swing” Detroit vote and the “swing” UAW vote, I wonder if there are any Americans out there that are sick of bailing out pathetic companies? Just a thought.

I’m sure hard workings, taxpaying Americans everywhere will chomping at the bit to support the Detroit auto indsutry jobs bank. Over thirty dollars an hour with full benefits for playing href="http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm">crossword puzzles. How can we expect a thriving auto industry when people are forced to work under such barbaric conditions. Its practially serfdom.

So Bambi, get on you knees and kowtow to Detroit, waste taxpayer money, become the poster boy for inept government bailouts and help your Detroit cronies Chicago style or piss off Detroit and the union vote. The next four years might not be so bad after all. This could be entertaining.

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Why do we oppose the bailout

SteveLA Sunday, November 16th at 9:25PM EST (link)

S_Y

I think opposing the bail-out of the Big Three is critical, but will the R’s left in Congress fumble the ball?

If the R’s are seen as being against it just to spite Obama, that’s bad, but if it’s a principled and well explained rational stance, then it cam be a good thing.

I oppose the bail out because money alone will not fix a systemic problem in labor costs for the big three, not as long as UAW contracts bankrupt the companies. A trip to Chapter 11 will wipe out these contracts, and will allow the Big 3 to have the same labor rates that Honda, Toyota, and any other number of non UAW plants who produce great cars in the US with US workers making a good but not insane salary.

______________________________________

Competency over ideological purity

 

-5- PRINCIPLES not patronage!

Freedoms Truth Sunday, November 16th at 10:22PM EST (link)

Say NO to bailouts without end and here is why in simple terms:

The auto bailout will save nobody’s jobs, all it will do is socialize another industry and make our overall economy weaker. It’s will cement in cost structures that have driven the auto makers to bankruptcy. it is an example of Gresham’s law, good money after bad.

The auto makers need to seriously change the financial structure of how they build cars. They simply cannot afford the absurd $70/hr cost structure of labor, more than half of it benefits, much of that tied to healthcare retirement.

Socialism feeds failure and starves success.
Capitalism feeds success and starves failure.
Which is a better model for economic growth?

These bailouts are feeding failure and will make us economically weaker and poorer.

We have to do the principled thing and oppose the bailouts.

Putting taxpayer on the hook for UAW

Freedoms Truth Sunday, November 16th at 10:24PM EST (link)

I oppose the bail out because money alone will not fix a systemic problem in labor costs for the big three, not as long as UAW contracts bankrupt the companies. A trip to Chapter 11 will wipe out these contracts, and will allow the Big 3 to have the same labor rates that Honda, Toyota, and any other number of non UAW plants who produce great cars in the US with US workers making a good but not insane salary.

Absolutely correct. Its bad enough that the UAW is bankrupting the stockholders of the big three, but to extend that to taxpayers is a travesty.

 
 

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Nelsen Sunday, November 16th at 10:29PM EST (link)

That crossword puzzle arcticle (http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm) just makes me sick.

Obama Made 512 Promises and Every Single One is Tracked At:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/
Create Your Own Obama Speech:
http://www.atom.com/spotlights/inauguration_speech_generator/

 

"The problem, he said, lies in the way the jobs bank is administered."

RoxannaDanna Sunday, November 16th at 11:13PM EST (link)

Ya think????

There are so many angles to approach with this jobs bank story, that I have no idea where to begin.

There is so much wrong on so many levels in this whole thing… it makes my head hurt.

“They might as well just give us a basket-weaving class, set us in the corner and let us feed the pigeons,” Cisco said.

How about this? How about YOU find a purpose and a new job and stop expecting the UAW and the auto makers to do it for you?

What a novel concept… taking responsiblity for yourself.

Not entirely UAW's fault.

ricbach229 Sunday, November 16th at 11:40PM EST (link)

This isn’t that cut and dry. The companies agreed to the contract with the UAW that included the job bank. If your boss gave you a contract with a termination clause that included 1 years severance would you say never mind when you get laid off?

They could be more proactive with it though. GM’s job bank is setup so that EE’s have to come to a hall and sit around. Ford’s is set up so that EE’s sit at home and show up to claim their checks. Ford’s is actually a better system because people can do job training and look for alternatives during the day.

They could both work on reconfiguring it so that EE’s laid off could find temp work to suppliment the income without the dollar for dollar loss in benefits they currently get.

If they really wanted a fix, they could do some enhanced job training and get people new skills during their job bank time. They’d be amazed how many people left the Bank early and got new jobs without being forced out.

Regarding the bailout. They shouldn’t get it. If they go to bankruptcy court they’ll work it out like they should. It’d be nuts to shortchange that process and remove the moral hazard from business.

Yes, I'd take $31/hour for nothing

RoxannaDanna Monday, November 17th at 2:38PM EST (link)

You’re right, I would not refuse a package like this one. Who would? But that doesn’t make it right or sensible.

I think most Americans will see $31/hour for no work for the lunacy it is.

And I’m not solely blaming the Unions. But it seems to me that if job security and job benefits are the mandate of the unions, they carry a fair share of the failures to their workers. It also seems to me that if the Big 3 fail, the Unions have helped bargain their members right out of jobs.

(Auto workers making $75/hour compared to $45/hour at a Toyota plant? What better PR is that for Toyota? Because most Americans aren’t going to look at the fact that Japan subsidizes Toyota. They are looking at that hourly wage difference.)

Obviously, you know more about this subject than I do. I know about as much as the average American knows and I think I’m reacting to this like the average American will.

But I will continue to read about it and learn more.

I'd like to agree with you, but I can't.

JustLeaveMeAlone Monday, November 17th at 2:53PM EST (link)

While paying someone $31 an hour for nothing seems stupid, remember that we Americans have accepted farm subsidy programs for years.

A decade ago, my dad got $18K from Uncle Sam for NOT growing peanuts. The raising of “Virginia peanuts” was given, that year, to the Chinese, and VA farmers were paid about three times what they’d have expected to make in a good year for doing NOTHING.

That is when I realized that the world is mad.

Now that my dad has passed on and the administration of the family farm has passed to me (someone else does the farming for us), I am constantly amazed at the crap the USDA sends me; don’t get me started on tobacco allotments and peanuts and cotton….

For thousands of years, humans have tilled the ground, sown seed, and prayed for God to bring a bountiful harvest. Nowadays, you just send forms to Washington and hope to make enough money to cover the taxes on the land.

“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson

You are so right!

RoxannaDanna Monday, November 17th at 2:59PM EST (link)

My brother-in-law is a dryland wheat farmer in Wyoming… I certainly see what you’re saying.

Excellent point!

Commercial Fisheries Are Going Down The Same Road

Swamp_Yankee Monday, November 17th at 3:30PM EST (link)

But the issue of the day is Detroit. Its ridiculous to listen to liberals talk about the auto industry, SUVs and CAFE standards and not even acknowledge that the cost of doing business in Detroit is simply too high. From labor agreements to outdated distribution methods, those companies cannot compete. If you prop them up now, they’ll just fai a little later. File chapter eleven and re-organize the whole thing.

I agree with NO bailouts

RoxannaDanna Monday, November 17th at 4:56PM EST (link)

but let’s don’t forget that the automakers were building cars that Americans wanted. We wanted the big cars. We wanted SUVs and pickups. (And there are many who need pickups for their livelihood, i.e.farmers and ranchers.)There are also people who are willing to pay the higher prices - albeit a minority - for pickups in order to tow their motor home or boat.

But when gas prices hit $4/gallon the automakers were left holding gas guzzlers while the American market disappeared.

My point all along has been that there is plenty of share in the responsibility for this failure… not just the UAW and not just the automakers.

(As a side note, until September, I drove a big red ‘98 Mercury Grand Marquis. The best car I’ve ever owned. I bought it brand new and until this summer, never had a moment of trouble with it. I got over 21mpg with that monster car. I’ve always owned a Ford and I’ve always been happy with them. Now I’m driving a ‘09 Focus and getting over 10mpg more than with the Merc. I love my new car!)

My sympathy just isn't there

JustLeaveMeAlone Monday, November 17th at 10:45PM EST (link)

Detroit has known this was coming since the Arab Oil Embargo of the early 1970s. This is not new.

They’ve been living on borrowed time for almost 40 years, since they tried to sell crap back then, and the Japanese almost put them out of business.

But instead of using that time to make a better and more fuel efficient product, they went for the quick buck.

And the parasitic UAW has known it was killing its hosts for years. They didn’t care.

But now, we are supposed to ante up and bail them out?

Feh.

“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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