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Romney to Youngstown Student: “Shop Around”. I need advice for talking to a liberal friend.

By: theevenger (Diary)  |  August 21st, 2012 at 06:23 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

A friend just texted me that she had read something that made her 100% unlikely to ever vote for Mitt Romney.  My friend is an example of a very poor person stuck under the misconception that the government is her answer out of her situation, and I was hoping to use this situation as a teachable moment.  I could use some advice here.

These two articles are what she was talking about:

http://loop21.com/politics/mitt-romney-townhall-college-students-shop-around

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/romney-in-ohio-want-college-cant-afford-it-too-bad/

 

To me, this seems like sound advice from Mr. Romney.  I am prepared to present all the standard arguments why she is her own way out of poverty, and the government is only going to be an obstacle, but can anyone help me out on Romney’s specific statements here?

COMMENTS

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  • absdoggy

    It’s good advice – join the military and you can get government $$ for college, Find a great institution of higher learning, but shop around, don’t just go to the highest priced one. For example, I went to Holy Cross, which at the time was between $30K – $36K per year, which was a savings over Amherst, which was higher by about $4K per year – I saved $16K for what was just as good a program.

    Don’t go into debt for college, or at least make sure the careers that your major prepares you for will be lucrative enough to pay it back quickly.

    Try for scholarships – I believe I read recently that if you get into Harvard undergrad, and you are from a family of 4 that makes under $60K, you go for free (tuition, books, fees). I’m sure some of the other Ivys are like that as well.

    Or, if she’s poor, just go to community college, which is much cheaper, that’s a better option for the poor. Look, Mitt Romney and George Bush came from wealthy families that could pay for their education – so they went to the top schools. I came from a less well to do family, and could afford to pay for Holy Cross, not Yale. If she comes from a poor family, then go in the military or work hard enough to get a scholarship if you want a big name college, elsewise go to something cheaper. You can still succeed with a community college degree.

    Romney told it like it is, why wouldn’t she vote for him? It’s not up to the government to get itself in more debt so it can hand out Pell grants to everyone like Obama wants.

  • civil truth

    Perhaps you can make this more coherent; I haven’t had much opportunity to think it out.

    1) Her focusing on student loans indicates that she’s taking a “what’s in it for me” approach to voting.

    However, if that’s going to be her attitude, then she has to assume that the politician she’s election has a similar motivation in terms of what he can get out of it.

    And since that person is much more powerful than her, that leaves her rather vulnerable – as the more powerful the government becomes, the more her interests are going to get squashed.

    2) Also, if she’s votes for “what’s in it for me” and others vote for similar reasons – how can government satisfy everyone.

    After all, government only has money because it’s taking from some people to give to others, which means that at some point it’s going to run out of other peoples’ money. In fact, it has long passed that point and is already borrowing from her generation and from those unborn.

    So there’s going to be winners and losers. How confident is she that she’s going to be a winner.

    Ask her, Do you feel lucky?

  • merrie7137

    Here’s my big question for the liberals: how does allowing a young person to go deeply in debt for an education that won’t pay off actually HELP anyone?

    When I went to college (about 27 years ago) I bought into what my teachers and advisors told me: study hard, make good grades and go to the best college you can get in to. So I did! My parents were sceptical, but my dad told my mom it wouldn’t cost them any more to send me to the private college than the state college. What my Dad (and I) overlooked was I could have probably received a FULL scholarship to the state college and taken out no loans. He paid what would have been full price at the state U plus I took out student loans. He died while I was in school and I ended up graduating with $20,000 or so of debt (which was a lot more then than it is now.) PLUS I had a bunch of credit card bills. Then I had to finance a car when I graduated.

    Fast forward to now and I’m over $45,000 in debt on student loans. HOW? Interest. All these kids now working at Starbucks who end up defaulting on their loans can avoid payments, but the debt never goes away and the interest piles up. I made my payments for a while, then I lost my job. When I was married, I didn’t work for a while and my husband didn’t want to pay, so I ignored them and hoped they would go away. At one point, I was supporting myself on minimum wage. The nice people at the student loan place allowed me to defer, but the interest kept piling up. When I finally started paying, it wasn’t enough to pay the interest. Now, at age 45, I’m finally paying more than the interest due. But it takes 25% of my take home pay.

    This is the future young people face with student loan debt. They won’t be able to afford to get married, have children and buy houses because they’re payng off student loans. And I at least finished and got a very good education! But what about those that don’t finish? And are the students today getting their money’s worth?

    We in this country have a very nice ideal that anybody should be able to go to college regardless of background or income. But the sad reality is that not everyone is cut out for college. And even if they are, there is a difference between job training and education. In today’s workforce, you can be the smartest, best educated person in the world and still not have the skills to earn a good living. Education is wonderful and valuable on its own, but before you chain yourself to a life of debt, ask yourself if it’s worth the cost,

  • funwithknives

    from The Young Up and Comers, when none is taught.

    Sure, they can go to Comm.College for a Two years and figure out something. Format a plan and all that icky stuff.
    But few do, for many reasons not plumbed by someone who is way past their ages and “Experiences.”
    Look at the Remedial Education statistics for incoming freshmen at almost any college you can name.
    The Numbers are just breathtaking to me.How did these people ever get accepted?

    Lots of these budding geniuses are ‘still in high school’. The waste here is incalcuable. Little is said or done, to rectify this ongoing ,accelerating problem.

    Where does this train end? Like any other credit crunch?

  • absdoggy

    they believe in pell grants, or Americorps and other programs that allow you to go for free, or keeping student loan interest rates low, which doesn’t really help anyone.

    Mitt and you are right – don’t go into debt, it’s not worth it. Go to community college, you pay less and it will get you into the workforce. Or, go to one of the for-profit technical schools – I know they have a crappy record, but you see the commercials that show how people made it coming from those schools, it’s all about your individual effort.

  • renny

    near the area, take a curriculum that will produce a skill like criminal justice, or foreign language for becoming a translator, also look at becoming a school or nurse’ aide, or bookkeeper, or look at a vo-tech school for xray or ultra-sound technician, dental hygienist, computer CAD programmer, computer anything, etc. so that on achieving a degree or certification, the student will have a good chance of getting employed. Then he/she can go on to a four-year degree if so desired part time while working.

    Do not today major in education (teaching is no longer an automatic hire) or communications (whatever that is) or any of the liberal arts “studies” baloney.

    Education and not having or fathering children without a high school diploma or marrying is the way to adult success, and the opposite is usually the way to life-long poverty.

  • lineholder

    I would start by asking a few questions. What career field is your friend hoping to enter? Has this person done the research to determine not only the salary but also the demand for that career field? Has he/she established their own personal career path plan with specific goals of what they want to accomplish? Or is this person attending college with a rather vague ambiguous belief that by getting a college degree in anything this will improve their chances in getting a job?

    If the latter is true, try to encourage that person to take greater accountability for their own future career outcomes by choosing the former. It matters.

    Here are a couple of websites that may be helpful:

    http://www.bls.gov/ooh/
    http://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm
    http://www.indeed.com/salary

    The person can gain information from the latter two links that may help determine if the demand for their chosen career field exists in their local community and what the salary in that area might be.

    By developing a career path plan, the individual can then look at different colleges, compare course descriptions, determine prerequisites, evaluate costs, and identify any obstacles that they might run into on issues such as transferring credits, time constraints, scheduling, etc.

    If the person is pursuing a career field that encourages certification of some sort, they can do a side-by-side contrast and comparison on current and projected certification requirements as related to course content for a degree.

    Romney’s right. It is much better to shop around. The person has greater opportunity of ensuring that they can get the education they are seeking within any financial constraints they may be facing, and they’ll be better of by far if they take on that responsibility now.

    I don’t know how receptive your friend might be to it if you present the concept of greater individual accountability on their part into the equation, but it really is the best way to go.

  • lineholder

    .