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Before we go RINO hunting, lets know what we are looking for…..

By: thego (Diary)  |  February 20th, 2011 at 04:47 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

I’ve been a reader of Red State for a long time, but this is my first Diary Entry.  Please forgive me if it is not up to par.

In the past year or so, we have seen a purging of so called Rinos from the republican party.  We all know this.  I’ve seen many people who advocate the idea of kicking out the so called Rinos in favor of real conservative republicans.  The biggest question I have, is what exactly constitues a RINO?  Is it a republican that we feel is not conservative enough, or is it literally a republican who votes like a democrat?  The difference between to two is in my opinion, stark.  As a recent Economics major graduate, I like to look at actual data to form my conclusions.

SNOWE, COLLINS, and BROWN:  According to the American Conservative Union, in 2010, both Maine Senators scored a 64 out of 100.  Scott Brown scored a 74.  All 3 of these senators voted more conservatively than every single democratic Senator.  The most conservative democratic senators where Ben Nelson (48) and Blance Lincoln (46).  So…do Brown, Collins and Snowe actually vote like democrats….I don’t think so.  They vote like Republican Centrists.  Are they as conservative as we would like, absolutely not.  Does it matter that they are republicans is blue states, so we should cut them a little slack, I’m not sure.  I don’t know if they qualify as RINOs or not.  I guess it depends on your interpretation of the acronym.

Mike Castle – R.I.N.O.  No doubt about it.  According to the A.C.U., Castles 2010 rating was a extremely dissapointing 38.  Several democrats voted more conservatively or as conservatively as Castle did (Bright, Marshall, Minick, Boren, McIntyre).  Many other democrats can awfully close to 38.  So, we can clearly say that Castle is literally a RINO.  When he first lost the primary to O’donnell, I was a little concerned.  However, having Castle as a potential swing vote/comprimise maker is a scary thought. 

So, is there a difference between the Snowes and the Castles?  I think there is a clear difference.  Any comments?

COMMENTS

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  • JadedByPolitics

    consistently to increase the size and scope of Government via TARP or the Prescription Drug bill under President Bush or other bills to be RINOs!….can we agree on that?

    • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908
      • traversecityconservative

        Vote with Republicans at least 85% of the time or you’re a Rino. And if you vote Democrat on any of the REALLY big issues, you’re still a Rino. Being better than a Democrat senator isn’t good enough. They’re either Conservative or they’re not. Votes talk louder than words.

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

          Are you refusing to vote for Republicans in the general election because they violate your definition of a “conservative”?

          • traversecityconservative

            Is just that they’re Rinos. I will still, of course, vote for them over any Democrat. It’s just a problem Conservatives continue to suffer through that we don’t have the candidates that we want.

      • heartland

        If you disagree with a homosexual, you can be labeled a homophobe. If you disagree with someone on Israel, you might be labeled anti-Semitic. If you disagree with a black person, you will probably be called a racist. If you don’t support an oppresive Union you may be called a Fascist. If you disagree with some conservatives, they may slap the RINO label on you.

        These labels are a tactic used to discredit the PERSON .. the INDIVIDUAL. It is an overt attempt marginalize them and shut them up.

        I think the RINO term is used too flippantly by Conservatives. In fact, all these labels are used too flippantly. It’s really sad when you hear one Conservative demeaning another with this label over any disagreement at all. It is almost *elitist* in that you are essentially saying “I will be the judge of who is, and is not, a good conservative”. There are some Republicans who deserve the RINO label, such as Arlen Specter. However, a lot of Republicans have been unfairly labeled.

        Calling our fellow Republicans, “RINOs” is very divisive to a party that should be inclusive.

        • Bill S

          you have to be careful with that last word (inclusive), too, because a lot of folks will interpret that as meaning “let’s accept every belief system out there, and let’s not criticize anyone”. That’s NOT where we need to be. But I happen to agree with your comment “I think the RINO term is used too flippantly…” Yes, it is. It’s like “neocon” – a lot of people use it without really thinking about what it means.

          I don’t care WHO someone is or WHAT they are (black/white/red/gay/straight/Latino/European/Asian/etc.etc.etc.) as long as they adhere to conservative principles. There is angst over “inclusive” because of the kind of nonsense that went on with CPAC, where some of those “whos” were claiming to be conservative in ideology, when in fact they supported a plethora of anti-conservative policies.

          Everyone has their pet litmus test. traversecityconservative threw out a number “85%” – while it’s hard to assign a numeric assessment to one’s conservatism, it does reflect an attitude that it isn’t necessary to adhere to EVERY SINGLE POLICY/IDEOLOGICAL POINT to be considered “conservative” or Republican.

      • JadedByPolitics

        He walked this economy right into the hands of the socialists….his “compassionate” conservatism set the stage for a bigger takeover of the government….I direct you to his comment “I have to abandon the free market to save the free market”…then comprehensive amnesty and on and on….now he is definitely to the middle of this Country but he is hardly a Constitutional Conservative of which we damn well need a good 40 more in the Senate and one President to right this tipping ship.

        • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

          Or a lot better.

          But then isn’t that one definition of a RINO?

          His strongest claim to fame was his foreign policy. But I am not a nation builder. Of course neither was he in 2000.

  • keven

    I agree with your general point that we need to be careful who we primary and why. I was fully in support of defeating Mike Castle and have absolutely no regrets in that effort. That does not mean however, that I would support the effort to primary all of the above 3………YET.

    First, I like Scott Brown. His voting record has been livable. Also, other then the slight hope of Curt Schilling, there is not a more conservative person then Scott Brown who could win in Massachusetts. So unless it was Schilling, you are giving up the seat without question.

    There are a number of other factors to keep in mind. First, how out front these Senators are in attacking conservatives, Tea Partiers, or defending Obama or liberal positions on TV. See Lynzie Graham for the point I am making here. Keeping there mouths shut is a huge part in whether to primary them or not. Snowe has had a particularly big mouth in the past. But all three have been moderately quiet the last year. Secondly is what I would call the Murk jerk. Running third party. That is something to be a bit concerned about.

    On the other hand, the voting numbers you mentioned were just last years. The Maine Twins history is much, much worse. The Twins were on their best behavior last year. Will they be this year? Will they be once they get SIX more years?

    Right now I lean toward going after Olympia Snowe based her career voting record and attitude against conservatives, lean against going after Susan Collins and am not for going against Scott Brown. All that could change based on behavior and potential opponents the next year.

    Keeping the threat of a primary alive is crucial however in keeping these three and others in line and on their best behavior.

    • thego

      I do agree with you inregards to the “twins” Snowe and Coillins lifetime voting record both hover around 50.

      Perhaps I’m being too pragmatic, but we might be better off leaving Snowe alone. Are there any other republicans that can get elected from Maine at the national level? Look at what happened in 2010. State Republicans kicked total @ss, however the 2 dem/socialist congressmen were both re elected.

      I think Lugar would be much better to primary. Indiana, besides 2008, is a reliably conservative state. Republicans can put up amuch mroe conservative candidate and still win comfortably. Lugar is certainly no Evan Bayh, who simply won because of name recognition. There is no reason to think we would lose the indiana seat if people didn’t see the name Lugar….

      • Bill S

        As much as I currently detest the ACU, there is no one number out there to give a rough estimate of the ideology of a Senator/Rep. Single-issue litmus tests are worthless (e.g. TARP), as they ignore the potentially huge number of other things that the politician could accomplish.

        I don’t know that there IS a good way to determine this. Tbone touches on one aspect – the “big votes”, and while no one “big vote” is a sufficient indicator, in total they can be. And that’s what the ACU has attempted to do.

        The points you and 908 made about whether it’s worth primary’ing those who are already there (e.g. Snowe) are the tough part – the ROT has always been “conservative in the primary, GOP in the general”, and that still holds. But there should be some strategic assessment made as to whether a bloody primary might damage the incumbent to the point where they could be beaten by a Dem challenger. It’s a tough call. As much as some recoil at the word, “electability” still counts.

        So, “who’s a RINO?” The better question is probably “who’s the best conservative that can win?”

        • thego

          I think what many people fail to differentiate is the difference between the message (conservatism) and the vehicle (candidate).

          Many conservatives in the media, mostly talk radio, critized those who dared say that Christine O’Donnell was a bad choice. All they could focus on was the fact that she was a staunch conservative. They refused to admit that she was bad candidate. She had a history of gaffs and statements that a lot of people would find bizarre. She was a bad vehicle. I admit that Castle had to be primaried, but are conservatives that fail to recognize reality do us all a diservice.

          I think its important to run a candidate who is as conservative as possible, but they have to be credible and electable. Ron Johnson is the perfect example of the righy candidate.

        • acat

          How does the ACU rate, for instance, Ron Paul?

          Any measurement that makes Ron look good must have a flaw, eh?

          Mew

      • Finrod

        Dick Lugar has been in the Senate for too many years (try plotting a trend line on his ACU scores), and Indiana is a conservative enough state that it can and should do better than him. I don’t think Maine is a conservative enough state to say the same about.

      • Wubbies World

        … that they just pasted. Yea, I think that screams “I need a primary opponent” loud and clear.

        http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/260215/lugar-oppose-house-budget-bill-katrina-trinko

  • nick2000

    These people are elected by the voters of their state and, therefore, represent their states choices or priorities. It is a fundamental aspect of our union. I do not want people from other states to say anything about my own representatives.
    Do I wish that others would vote differently? You bet I do, but I would also like to preserve states independence unless you want the way of life in Texas to be the same as in, say Massachusetts?
    Diversity keeps us on our toes even if we do not agree all the time and democracy is a dirty business but I prefer it by far to tyranny.

    By the way, I am all for exposing fraudsters claiming one thing (to appeal to voters) and doing another (to appeal to donors…). We need to make them honest!

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    are not going to turn out to be the local equivalent of CO’D or Angle?

    I’m pretty sure there is/are candidates to run against Lugar who are credible, I’ve seen some names mentioned.

    Scott Brown is probably the most conservative person in Massachusetts. You’re not going to beat him in a primary and even if you did, your “pure one” would get hammered in the general. Brown is a fantastic Senator from Massachusetts.

    Snowe? Give me an opponent. I’m guessing you may not do much better than her.

    • Tbone

      its the big votes that count.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        Big votes only count if they make a difference. Snowe has yet to cast a “big” vote that made a difference on any piece of legislation we’d consider “bad”. She also never took a leadership going against the mainstream of the Republican line, when she did vote the wrong way, she was following somebody else – like Specter.

        Is she a great Republican Senator? Hell no. Would I like to see her replaced, well yes, but not by a Democrat who will vote the ObamaLine 100% of the time.

        As far as Scott Brown is concerned, we’d be stupid to support a primary challenge against him.

        Lugar should be primaried and beaten by a credible candidate but we need to be starting now.

        • Bill S
        • Tbone

          By definition.

          And yes, only replace an R if you can get a better R.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            “…make a difference…” in context is a vote (Arlen Specter) that gives the other side the winning vote on a bill.

            If Snowe wants to vote pro-choice on a bill that we win by 15 votes I could care less, especially when she will consistently vote – as she did in the last session – with the Party on important fiscal issues that we kept from floor votes that we would have lost.

          • Tbone
  • Kyle-MI

    Instead of focusing on any individual Rep or Senator, we need to look at the big picture. Our grand strategy should be to move the GOP, the country, and the center to the right. We need to pick the primaries and races that will do this. Look at who is running and where they are running. The best example of this strategy was the Senate primary in UT. Bennet was not the worse Republican in the Senate, but he was lousy compared to his state. Maybe he wasn’t even a RINO, but he was a good target for our grand strategy. Maybe Brown, Snowe, and Collins are RINO’s, but, like a number of posters, I am not sure we can do better in those states. We have limited resources, so there are better places to use those resources than primarying any of those three.

    • acat

      In my opinion, a RINO is a Republican missing at least 2 legs of Reagan’s three-legged stool – strong national defense, strong pro-family policies, strong economy.

      It’s a simple test, and is perhaps better described as a CINO (Conservative-In-Name-Only) test but .. it works for me. Your mileage may vary.

      Mew