« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

MEMBER DIARY

Touching Evil: Violent psychosis and the crimes of Jared Loughner

Midmorning on January 8, 2011, in Tucson, Arizona, Jared Lee Loughner, an unemployed 22-year-old, opened fire on a crowd in a Safeway parking lot, murdering six individuals and injuring over a dozen others.

In what appears to have been an assassination attempt, Loughner shot U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords in the head, point blank. As of this writing, Congresswoman Giffords has survived the attack, thanks to the expertise of her doctors and the extraordinary, manmade miracles that we regularly receive as a consequence of advances in medicine. Imagine if this had happened a century ago. Giffords, it is almost certain, would have died en route to a dirty hospital or very soon after her arrival. After all, penicillin, something so basic that we take it for granted, was discovered and made available during World War II, and it is hard for us today to understand just how far medicine has come since then.

Many people have asked why Loughner targeted Giffords and murdered six others. Clarence Dupnik, sheriff of Tucson’s Pima County, attributed it to intolerance and the tone on talk radio, asserting that, “[T]he vitriol that comes out of certain mouths, about tearing down the government, the anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous.” Loughner, according to this line of thinking, was an unbalanced person reacting to inflaming rhetoric. We’ll call this the media hypothesis.

Some members of the media immediately blamed the shooting on Sarah Palin and various tea party groups. According to this narrative, political conservatives, Governor Palin in particular, were responsible for the murders. Interestingly, Congresswoman Giffords was, herself, quite conservative by many standards (a “Blue Dog Democrat), and the pogressive website Daily Kos included her on a list of “targets” for political primaries). Let’s lump these together and call them the political hypothesis.

Loughner’s friends, however, have said that he wasn’t particularly political. He wasn’t an avid watcher of news programs and didn’t listen to talk radio, and they don’t believe that he was influenced by Rush Limbaugh or Sarah Palin. In fact, his favorite books (according to his YouTube account) were Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto. Some have said that Loughner used to be a pretty normal kid, but that his personality changed abruptly after a breakup with a high school girlfriend. Let’s call this the heartbreak hypothesis.

I’d like to offer an alternate hypothesis, one that it pretty obvious but unpopular with pundits and politicians, because it doesn’t have a solution and doesn’t offer the opportunity for a program that they can push: Jared Loughner is insane.


The Unfortunate Tale of Geoff and Darla

A couple of days after the Tucson story broke, I got a call from Geoff, an old friend who had been rattled by the story and awakened repeatedly by nightmares (His name isn’t really Geoff, but he values his privacy, so I’ve changed the names and left out a lot of details about where they lived, etc). The reason that Geoff was upset was that the incident reminded him of his life a few years ago, when he was married to a woman named Darla. I remember Darla, but I haven’t seen her in years. She was an attractive but unsettling woman, whose presence made people uncomfortable and who was alienated from most around her.

She and Geoff met and married quickly. He tells me that he rushed into things because he was young and foolish, sort of a hopeless romantic. Plus, he saw in Darla someone who needed his help, and once they had formed a connection, he felt obligated to take care of her. She was extremely energetic at times, and very enthusiastic, but she was also unpredictable. During their short engagement, Geoff and Darla lived together, and there were times when her behavior scared him. A great example is their upstairs neighbors. One of them had a set of loud wind chimes, and the night after he hung them, they prevented Darla from sleeping. She banged on the ceiling and screamed obscenities in the middle of the night, demanding that he take down the wind chimes. He did, and never really looked at her the same after that.

After they had been married a few months, Geoff and Darla bought a home on a cul de sac, in a rural area that was a pretty good distance from his work. She had dropped out of community college and quit her job during their engagement, and so she stayed home while he worked. His job was demanding, and so he left the house early and came home late, and while he was gone, Darla rarely ventured outdoors. She watched television continually and nurtured a few hobbies, to keep herself occupied. She cried regularly. At one point in this period, she went from being an agnostic to being a fervent Christian, and she began conversing with God daily.

A few months after the wedding, they learned that they were going to have a baby. For the most part, she did what the doctors told her, such as avoiding alcohol and taking prenatal multivitamins. Her depression deepened during the pregnancy, however, and he had to travel some for work. Still isolated, she became suicidal, and at one point she penned a twenty-page suicide note, though she never followed through. Near the end of the pregnancy, her connection to reality, which had been weakening, broke. Late one night, she told Geoff that she could see, in the bathroom mirror, that there was a demon behind her eyes, telling her to kill him. She was doing her best to resist, but she needed a cross.

Geoff was panicked and didn’t know what to do. There didn’t seem to be any harm in getting a cross for her (though his willingness to do so may have helped to cement her delusion, as he was playing along), so he drove her to a gas station and bought a piece of cheap religious jewelry. In the parking lot, she hid her face. “What’s wrong?” he asked. She fearfully pointed at a gray-bearded biker and said, “Don’t look at him. Don’t! He’s a watcher.” She explained, “Watchers are people that walk around, and they look like normal people. Don’t look at him! They watch over us for the devil, and they can steal your soul.”

As they drove away, she fastened the necklace. “This cross is no good,” she said. “I have to get another one. This one doesn’t work. It’s not the right kind. We need to find a store that sells others.” They drove to a 24-hour Wal Mart and bought cross earrings. She put them in and breathed, relieved, explaining that the demons were gone.

The next day, Geoff tried to figure out what to do, but he didn’t know who to ask, much less what to ask. Eventually, he talked to a mental health professional who said that he could not make any diagnosis over the phone, but Geoff needed to take Darla to a hospital and have her assessed; he warned that this could lead to her involuntarily committment. Geoff called her obstetrician and explained what was happening to a nurse, because Darla was only a week away from her due date, and the doctors would probably have to induce labor before they could give her the appropriate psychiatric medications. He then drove home and, tears in his eyes, told her that he had to take her to the hospital.

She was furious, and as they drove there, she told him how she had always feared being locked in an institution, that this was the worst thing that anyone had ever done to her. She said that she would hate him forever, that she would put on whatever show the doctors expected, convince them that she was better, and get her revenge when she got out. She guaranteed him that he would never see their child.

Geoff did not know what to do. He didn’t know what his rights were, or his responsibilities. He was terrified that he might be making a mistake. He was frightened that Darla would take their baby away as she had threatened, and he feared for the safety of the child without his presence to stabilize her. Most of all, he felt sorry for her, for how small and lost she seemed, and so when they were going through the intake process, Geoff told the people at the hospital that she was ok and that it had been a false alarm. He lied his way out of the situation, and after a night talking to medical personnel, he and Darla left the hospital.

Geoff says that this is probably the worst mistake he has ever made.

Their child was born a few days later, and Geoff was hopeful that Darla’s delusions had simply been a side-effect of pregnancy, that she would go back to being eccentric and unpredictable, but no longer psychotic. That didn’t happen. Instead, she became verbally and physically abusive, often hitting him and threatening to do the same to the baby (Eventually she became abusive to the child as well). She threatened with knifes, slammed doors repeatedly, locked herself in rooms, and threatened to drive their car into the opposite lane on the Interstate.

The world in which she lived became increasingly divorced from reality, though he tells me that this waxed and waned. Some weeks she was very delusional, some less so. She believed that the piano tuner wanted to steal their baby, that the neighbors wanted to poison their pets, and that her online detective work would lead to the arrest and capture of key Al Qaeda members. She believed that God was sending her numerical messages through clocks and that if she could decode them, she would be able to understand her future. She redecorated their house, painting the walls wild, mismatched colors. Her behavior was very unpredictable, and Geoff never knew if she did things to make a point or because she was tormented. On one occasion, she lit a cigarette and calmly held it to the back of her hand, giving herself a third-degree burn.

Geoff became increasingly isolated, largely out of shame, and he only left the house to go to work and church. A deeply committed evangelical Christian, he believed that divorce was allowable only in the case of adultery, and so he stayed in the marriage for years. Darla’s friendships never lasted more than a few weeks (Her friends later told Geoff that they feared her), and he stopped talking to most of his.

Eventually, after a particularly frightening episode in which she claimed (again) to be demon-possessed (this time hurting their child, Geoff, and herself), Darla asked to be committed. Geoff took her to the hospital, where she stayed for a week. She was given antipsychotic medicine and mood stabilizers, and she was like a new person, but eventually she stopped taking her medicine. She began cheating on Geoff with another patient from the hospital, and one night, while she was out of the house, he drove away late at night, with the child and a suitcase full of clothes, fearing for the safety of himself and his child.

He took out a restraining order, gained full custody, and became a single dad. He drank heavily for the next few years, trying to make the pain and fear go away. Eventually, he stopped drinking, and he leads a pretty normal life now. When he told me this story (I’d heard bits and pieces over the years), he said that he isn’t as kind as he used to be. Pain hardened him, though he is trying to recover and restore the gentle spirit that he had when he was young. I don’t know what became of Darla. I knew her through my friendship with Geoff, and so I lost touch with her years ago. It is fine with me, because she scared me, especially the last couple of times I saw her.

The Challenge of Violent Psychosis

I don’t think that Jared Loughner was inspired by talk radio, the news, or political pundits. I think that he was crazy like Darla. I don’t know if she was ever diagnosed with anything, but from the way that Geoff has described her, she sounds like a schizophrenic. Reports of Loughner’s behavior lead me to suspect that he suffers from a similar disconnect from reality.

Society is not responsible for his actions. He is responsible for his actions.

Loughner is, in all likelihood, psychotic, and I imagine that he latched onto Gabrielle Giffords for a reason that only he can explain, even if that explanation makes no sense to anyone other than himself. Bigotry did not drive him to murder; chemistry did. His brain is most likely scrambled, due to natural chemistry (caused by schizophrenia or something along those lines), drugs (Reports claim that he used cocaine, marijuana, psilocybin mushrooms, and the dangerous, legal hallucinogen salvia divinorum), or both. Psychosis often starts in an individual’s adolescence, so this fits the timeline of his reported downward spiral pretty well.

What, then, of moral responsibility? Is an individual absolved because he is psychotic? Certainly not. Legal responsibility, perhaps (I am not a lawyer), but not moral. An individual may be living in a world of pure delusion, but he is still responsible for choosing good, or for submitting to others who stop him from choosing evil.

I believe that the only thing that could have prevented the murders in Tucson would have been the institutionalization of Loughner. If he had been on the right medicine, he may have been able to lead a relatively normal life, but many psychotic people are non-compliant (A great example is Geoff’s ex-wife Darla). The problem with this solution is that it required the attention and action of people who cared for him (His parents are the most obvious candidates). Many people don’t know their right and responsibility to have an individual committed if he presents a threat of harm to himself or others. In many states, false charges that lead to an individual’s commitment can lead to significant trouble for those making the charges.

So what is the solution? I don’t know. In all honesty, I don’t think that there is one. If more people understood mental illness and were willing to commit their loved ones, if necessary, it would increase the probability that people like Loughner are committed before they can kill, but it is no guarantee. People are responsible for their own behavior (and, to a certain extent, for preventing things from happening if they have the power).

It is important to note that mental illness is pretty common and that most mentally ill people are able to lead normal, productive lives. Even schizophrenics can thrive, if they stay on their medicine, and they deserve our compassion and respect. I, for one, cannot imagine the struggle that they must endure. The vast majority of mentally ill individuals are not dangerous like Jared Loughner.

We are all of us imperfect and imperfectible. Psychotic murderers, like the poor, will always be with us, and while advances in medicine and improvements in the mental health system can mitigate the risks associated with their madness, nothing can guarantee safety all of the time. At best, we can reduce the number of actively psychotic people out and about through commitment and medication.

I think that the risk of events like this is a cost of living in a free society. It’s not an answer that I particularly like, but I think that it’s true.

Policy Prescriptions

Some will try to use the murders as an excuse to grab guns, but making guns illegal (or harder to get) will not stop a dangerous psychotic, and it will make society in general more dangerous. While gun bans keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, many guns used in crimes have been obtained illegally; a well-armed populace is the best deterrent to crime.

An individual who is evil, psychotic, or both only needs a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook and a few household items. That’s enough to kill a crowd. A knife or car or blunt instrument or pair of strong hands is all an evil person needs to kill another individual. While easy access to guns reduced the amount of effort that Loughner had to exert to kill, I doubt that it increased his ability or intent to kill.

Given Loughner’s fascination and proficiency with guns, an outright ban may have prevented the Tucson murders, but there is no guarantee that it would have, and the costs of a ban (or serious restriction) on guns would outweigh the benefits of possibly preventing incidents like this one. Another issue is, of course, the constitutionality of gun bans; even if they are the best idea in the world (and I don’t believe that they are), that doesn’t make them pass constitutional muster.

Within the parameters of what the Constitution does allow, every policy decision involves a trade-off, and we must weigh the cost and benefits of that trade-off. Avoiding absolutes (Completely ending poverty, violence, drug use, etc) can lead us to make measured policy decisions, understanding trade-offs and the fact that we cannot eradicate suffering and evil, merely reduce them and mitigate their effects.

Regarding mental illness, general education about mental health would go a long way toward preparing people to deal with psychotic family members, neighbors, and friends. Most people, I suspect, do not know what to do if a family member becomes psychotic, how to take out a warrant (if necessary), how to have someone involuntarily committed, etc.

I don’t think that a federal program can help, except perhaps to leverage best practices and share Public Service Announcement resources, and the like.

I do think that increased mental health funding at a state and local level would be a good thing. Many homeless individuals suffer from severe mental illness, and considering the neighborhood effects of homelessness, governmental assistance should occur at the local level, where individuals suffer and cause problems. There are many things that only the government can do (particularly related to public safety), and unless there is a significant upsurge in private, charitable care of the mentally ill (which does not seem likely), it should be a function, at least at some level, of government.

The more tax money we send to Washington, the less is available for state and local taxes, where it can be used more appropriately, effectively, and needfully. I cannot envision a bureaucracy that could manage mental health resources more effectively than a local one (That is, actually help patients and communities).

Ironically, an unintended consequence of Social Security and the federalization of medicine, a goal of which was to help the helpless, was a rise in homelessness. In the mid-1960s, through amendments to Social Security, many mental health resources shifted from states to the federal government. This led to the closure of many mental hospitals, and many of the formerly-institutionalized patients (or individuals who would have been institutionalized) were left to fend for themselves.

Again, we cannot say that locally funded and controlled mental health would have prevented the Tucson killings, but by making mental health a community issue, more than a national one, we would likely be able to provide better services to the mentally ill, helping them and the communities where they live.

I am no expert, and I could be wrong, but it is a conversation worth having.

Cross-posted at The Joy of Reason.

COMMENTS

  • aesthete

    Apologies in advance for spelling errors, since I’m typing this on my iPhone.

    As bad as a physical injury can be, mental illness deprives a person of the full use of the instrument most important for day to day life: sadly, it is also one of the problems that modern medicine is least capable of diagnosing and resolving. One of the ministries that my church emphasizes is outreach to substance abusers and people with mental problems (two categories with significant overlap). As a result, I’ve been witness to several incidents similar to the one that you describe with Darla, and the converse of those incidents. For instance, knew a man whose brother (a peaceful and gentle but mentally-disturbed individual) was involuntarily committed into a mental institution early on: an experience which deeply scarred him and his family long after his release, and which ultimately ended in suicide. It appeared to te man recounting his experience that the experience was worse for both him and the family due in part to the low quality of the institution in question, and in part to the brusque manner in which the “experts” pushed the family out of the decision of whether to commit or not. I also know of some schizophrenics who have had bad stints at mental health facilities, but who have also gotten better while there and gone on to live happy and productive lives. One who comes to mind works with children, and is positively saint-like both in her demeanor towards others and in the class and dignity she comports herself with in the face of her mental problems.

    It is not immediately apparent to me that Loughtner’s end was preventable (at least, not short-term): many have mentioned parental involvement and education, but Loughtner’s family is reported to have been dysfunctional and somewhat uncaring. Even if the resources were there for friends and family to use, would Loughner’s family have cared enough to use them? Probably not. Other, somewhat less intelligent voices on the moderate right have taken the opportunity to double down on the War on Drugs: a position which, like gun control arguments, is rooted more in emotionalism than an objective examination of the facts (and for similar reasons). Certainly, the current legal regime did not present a problem for Loughner (and according to a friend of his,, Loughner’s condition appears to have deteriorated after he stopped abusing). Underrstanding the fractured mind is an elementary science, and probably always will be: all that we know is that, somewhere along the way, Loughner’s mind snapped, and that even with hindsight, we have no clear answer as to what would have prevented this tragedy.

    My policy prescriptions match yours, but I would add a couple:

    First, psychiatry and psychology are sciences that are still in their infancies and which are still grappling with the explanatory power of their own fundaments, even more so than notoriously “open” sciences like economics. We need to recognize these limitations, and not expect miracles out of the policies prescribed by “experts” in these sciences. We also need to avoid giving their opinions more authority than they are worth: any science can be hijacked to further some philosophical idea or other, and this is particularly the case in developing sciences. The good guys in the field (much as in economics) will tell you right off the bat that their knowledge of their subject is far from complete.

    On a related note, we should not grant plenary power to the “experts” regarding policies, funding, or other such issues: while the opinion of experts acting in good faith should both be sought out and listened to with deference, it should not override any other concerns. In particular, involuntary commitment strips the decision to commit from family members and puts it in the hands of detached professionals who cannot spend their time looking at specifics and the dynamics of individual situations as the family can. While it is sometimes justifiable to do so, it is better to err on the side of allowing family members to have the final say, just as they do over their children and other members of society not seen as fit enough to be entrusted with full self-determination. Mental hospitals can range from being beneficial, compassionate institutions that promote betterment, to horrific, Dickensian gulags that contribute to the problem. This can be the case both due to objective standards not being met, and subjective perceptions and experiences on the part of individual patients and family members. The family should have the final say as much as possible on these matters, not a disinterested third party.

    • aesthete

      While we should have areas of law that deal with mental illness, we should most definitely refrain from advocating for general legislation that affects all to deal with problems caused by those with mental illness. In doing so, we risk imposing a “madman’s veto” on our fundamental rights. As you state, there is some risk that is unavoidable when one lives in a free societ, and violent psychotics are one of those profoundly tragic, but unavoidable, risks.

      IMO, conservatives tend to be less despicable when it comes to such issues not only because of their proclivity towards religion, but also because their philosophy at its heart recognizes that in a fallen world, evil and senseless acts can and will be perpetrated. This recognition allows conservatives to eventually move past trying to find solutions to intractable problems, and allows them to get to the point where they accept it and deal with the aftermath with sympathy and grace. Progressive recognize no such limitations: they are always just on the verge of finding laws and policies that will avail is of our social ills, and thus cannot move past the question of how best to implement solutions that will assuredly work: this is one of the reasons that you see lots of talk on the left regarding policies to pass in the wake of tragedy: giving up on the perfect society is antithetical to their worldview. Now I’ll stop playing at armchair psychologist.

      • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

        …except I still haven’t figured out what Kowalski means.

        • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

          Everyone calls that a “Kowalski”.

        • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

          I think that neuroscience, particularly FMRIs and other, similar tools, will go a long way toward helping us to understand the mind better. One of things that I worry about being an unintended consequence of ObamaCare is reduced R&D and an extreme slow-down in the development of drugs and treatments.

          On the war on drugs, I agree. I think that it’s been a monumental failure, much like the other big non-war war (the war on poverty). I suspect that the war on drugs may deepen and intensify certain conditions that correlate with high rates of drug use, such as crime in bad neighborhoods, the power of gangs, and the like. Salvia is a great example of the self-limiting nature of dangerous drug use. It is legal and relatively unrestricted in most states, but hasn’t led to widespread salvia use, because it is a pretty damn crazy thing to try, according to the logic that most of us (self included) employ when making decisions about what to do with our bodies.

          That said, I am not all the way down the road to total drug legalization (I used to be), because as long as the welfare state incentivizes bad behavior, there is no reason not to use drugs for those who are stuck in the mindset, habits, and conditions of perpetual poverty. A lot of my libertarian leanings are dependent on the elimination or significant restructuring of the welfare state. Going pretty far afield of Loughner; I should probably leave it at that.

          • aesthete

            to push for full legalization at present, being a believer in incrementalism. In my experience, however, drug use (while bad and not something that I would indulge in if legal) is far less harmful than the effects of criminalization: as PJ O’Rourke put it, the worst known side-effect of drugs is prison. Even the most pessimistic views of the effects of drugs on society (which have not manifested themselves in countries moving towards decrim/legalization) do not compare to the dismantling of families, Constitutional rights, and individual liberties as well as the increase in lawlessness that the WoD has created. I don’t know the solution, so even though I lean towards a libertarian legal regime, I would like to see the states resume their roles as laboratories for democracy on the issue of drugs, per their Constitutional role.

            At any rate, I didn’t mean to drag the WoD into this, I merely meant to address the illogic of some moderate conservatives’ use of the tragedy to justify and double down on the status quo.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    First, the parents should have known, instead, in denial, probably for the longest time. We know of drug use from Army turn down. It would be there duty to move him into come sort of care, and sorry, unless there are outward manifestations that would cause the county/state system to intervene, i lay it all at their feet.

    Problem is, there were probably all sorts of reason for the system to intervene, from threats at college, (probably high school as well) to other run-ins with the law.

    • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

      There may be mitigating circumstances (e.g. if the father is, himself, mentally ill), but I cannot see how they could eliminate the parents’ complicity, because hard as it is, and like it or not, they were responsible to see that he was properly diagnosed and treated for whatever problems plagued him.

      That said, I also agree that someone in society at large should have sounded an alarm of some sort, since the parents did not. If a student is expelled or suspended for antisocial behavior that appears to be the consequence of a serious mental illness, it seems to me that the body that suspends or expels him has some responsibility to report his behavior to the authorities, whether they are, in turn, able to do anything with the information or not. I dislike the idea of an innocent individual (like aesthete’s example, above) being committed unnecessarily, but I don’t know if there is a systemic solution to prevent it, other than the good faith of every actor in a particular situation.

      I think that lawsuits really gum everything up, because it is hard to act in good faith when you could be sued by a sane person who is inappropriately hospitalized or by victims of a crime if, say, you failed to act to restrain a dangerous individual.

      I don’t see any obvious solutions, which is why I think that this is a moral and medical issue more than a political one (as far as harm reduction goes).

      • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison
  • JadedByPolitics

    there needs to be some areas that lawyers cannot just sue to change laws because they have a liberal bleeding heart or no job. The mental hospitals were cleared because the ACLU and their bleeding heart liberal minions sued the government and who pays for that? WE DO…the jails are full of mentally ill people who should be hospitalized and sometimes for life but should not be on the streets.

    There is a crisis in this Country but it isn’t rhetoric or guns it is lawyers attempting to make everything “fair” when sometimes fair is CRUEL and quite UN-FAIR! It appears the Courts decided to let every little POS lawyer enter the most insane cases to be heard and by doing so turned this Country upside down and we may never recover until the Courts decide somethings are NOT the purview of the Courts.

  • steve010

    Paranoid schizophrenia is just what it sounds like. Intense fear. Abnormal amounts of delusional fear. Fear to the point where the patient is either prone to take to flight or catatonic and wrapped up in a fetal ball. There is a 96% chance that the shooter is not schizophrenic because less than 4% of people suffering from schizophrenia become violent.

    Read the short story, The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka. This is Kafka

  • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

    I don’t know much about the history of deinstitutionalization, which is why I just mentioned it and the role of the federal government. Thanks for your input. I agree completely that jails and streets are not where the mentally ill should live. We need to have compassionate, secure locations for those (relatively few) individuals who cannot care for themselves and pose a potential violent risk to themselves and others. The attempt at universal fairness definitely has some negative consequences, and this is one of them.

  • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

    I think that your reasoning about the 96% chance is a bit flawed, but thanks so much for helping to clarify the difference between schizophrenia and OCD. I threw out schizophrenia as an example (I am not a mental health professional). My main point is that this is a mental health issue, not a political one, and that the greatest tragedy (and one that I don’t know how to solve) is that Loughner was never diagnosed or treated for whatever disorder he has.

    There are medications for the treatment of OCD, but my understanding is that their effectiveness varies.

    Interestingly, when a (left-leaning) friend of mine mentioned (on the day of the murders) that they were political in nature, I said that Loughner was, in all likelihood, no more a reflection of individuals on the right or left than Hinckley was of Scorsese fans. I think that your analysis is spot-on regarding Travis Bickle.

  • earlgrey

    People only seemed to be concerned with vending machines in schools and Happy Meal toys. Oh the horror!

    It is difficult to get help for someone who is delusional and does not accept or realize they have a problem, but it CAN be done. Most people don’t know what to do. Most people don’t know how to recognize the symptoms and only those closest to the ill person will see enough of the them to notice teh changes.

    In some ways I think American are so “taken care of” that they don’t realize they (the familiy, loved ones) have to do something (and fast) to save the patient from ruining their life or that of those around them.

    There should not be shame in mental illness (this can keep people from getting treated), and it can happen to people who do not use drugs (although it would be interesting to see how drug use effects mental illness).

    If a republican congresswoman had been gunned down by this man. We would all probably be learning a lot more about mental illness.

    I do not support a system where a group of caregivers can commit someone without the consent of a caregiver/guardian. I worry it would become a way to control people and their finances.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    As long as serious mental illness is grounds for indefinite detention under the law, there’s always going to be a stigma on treatment.

    I see no easy answer to that.

  • JSobieski

    That people are fully responsible for their own actions.

    The other two primary exceptions to that rule are children and the infirm.

    Children are the easiest to handle under our basic legal framework because we were once all kids, and most people have a general sense of a boundary between kids being kids and kids being dangerous. In any case, kids do not have all the rights and presumptions of an adult.

    The elderly infirm can be more challenging, but the individual can themselves plan for their infirmity and deal with it in advance. In any case, the infirm aren’t in any kind of shape for a shoot out, so the danger is that the individual is taken advantage of, not vice versa.

    The mentally ill are far harder to address. Criminal laws are based on dealing with criminals, not committing people who might commit crimes. Adults are presumed competent.

    Distiguishing between a odd-ball and someone who is dangerous is challenging even when done in good faith. In bad faith, the results can be horrifying. See how countries like the USSR used psychiatry, or how China does now.

    Its a

  • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

    Neil, your observation about indefinite detention is a good one. However, I think that there’s more to the mental illness stigma than simply the threat of indefinite detention (although I think that you’re right that it does create a stigma). I think that people are reflexively frightened by the severely mentally ill. It’s that whole Don’t look into his eyes, ’cause you can catch crazy thing. I don’t know how, apart from PSAs and a shift in the zeitgeist, this can change, if it can at all. Human behavior can be changed; human nature cannot.

    Earlgrey, I agree with you up to a point, but I don’t know enough about other countries to know if this is an American thing or a more universal one. I know, from my friend’s related experience, that committing a loved one is excruciatingly difficult, and there is a certain in-group loyalty (especially among families) that makes such a decision difficult.

    Geoff told me that during his separation and divorce, he felt like his eyes were opened (slowly). He saw that after enough time living with Darla (after her decline into delusion), he had placed himself into her fantasy world in a lot of ways, because it was easier to believe that the neighbors were cruel than it was to believe that his wife was insane; this was compounded by his fear that whatever illness plagued Darla is heritable and that it could have been passed down into their child (There is a history of mental illness in the family).

    All of that is to say that caregivers should be involved, but there are times when they cannot be (out of fear, loyalty, blindness to the condition, etc) and some sort of authority must step in. Vassar alludes to that below, I think, when he mentions that someone outside the family should have raised some red flags. From what I understand, rights and responsibilities vary by state. Any law in place should have enough oversight and redundancy to reduce the likelihood of abuse (e.g. finances, as you mention).

    To Neil’s point, this is the challenge: How do we balance the need to keep dangerously insane people from harming themselves, others, or both while preserving fundamental freedoms?

    There are no easy answers, simply trade-offs, and none of them is likely to lead to a solution that serves everyone’s needs.