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Sad Day

At the very least, a confusing one

By: Erick Brockway (Diary) | February 20th, 2011 at 11:49 PM |

RESIZE: AAA

As the following was written, it appeared the ban hammer was being weilded in all directions without mercy or thought. Erick since posted this, and it’s obvious I don’t know all the facts. Threatening legal action? Against RedState?

So I wrote the following, and as I sit here looking at the publish button…

Well, I do like the music video, and my feelings are genuine; seriously, where do we fit in? We can’t be afraid to cross the line when we can’t even see that sucka. And when we do think we know where it is, it moves, or someone steps over and it’s okay for them, but not someone else.

What a day, huh?

I think back to the summer, the actual highlight of my conservative experience to date was being able to meet all the fine folks at RedState that, online at least, I had been able to call friends, allies, and mentors.

I found I can almost keep up with Caleb in the bar department, that EPU and Vassar had the best idea in heading up to bed early and I should’ve followed suit, and that Neil doesn’t actually carry a hammer around with him, it’s only an electronic thing. Most importantly, I found out I was right in calling RedState my home; the place I could go first if I needed clarification, information, or to share my good news, whatever it might be. A community I was proud to belong to and support.

At the RedState Gathering in Austin, I jumped in and manned the registration desk to give Caleb and his lovely wife a break. I carried boxes for EPU. I generally did what I could to help out, not so much for community as I felt like one of the troops. I didn’t do these things to suck up to anybody, or be able to say “I met so and so, I’m important”. I wasn’t bucking for promotion to FP status; fact is I know my limitations. My writing quality isn’t near the level I would expect to see on the Front Page at RedState.com, and I’ve said as much to Caleb (though I can’t specifically remember what brought the subject up, fog of war is what I’m sticking to). Although I’ll confess here that the few times the moon, stars, and planets aligned and I managed to write something that some editor thought FP worthy I was excited enough to call the wife and tell her, frankly I wasn’t expecting a whole lot except to belong to something that could somehow make a difference in our country.

No doubt today that is still the case, insofar as RedState is getting notice nationwide. Politicians are reading these pages, and I’m quite sure the spats that we’ve had over the years have grown tiresome to those in positions of power here who are looking out for the well-being of the site as a whole. Are the spats today worse somehow than they’ve been in years past? No, I don’t believe so. Not necessarily, anyway. I can remember a few good ‘uns that still shake the internet today, and for those you can just do a Google search with the search string G’bye –nt site:www.redstate.com. No doubt someone was banned in those brouhahas.

Today, I feel empty after seeing what has happened here. It feels like RedState has possibly outgrown the community; that there’s no real place for the disagreements we’ve had in the past. Too many outside eyes looking in to be a free-for-all like the Freepers, but somehow becoming strangling more like Malkin or HotAir where you need to be registered to comment, and no one ever gets to register. For months now I’ve been silent when I felt the need to disagree with someone in authority at RS, because it wasn’t worth the risk of banishment. Just sit there and shut up, it’s not your site, it’s theirs. They pay the bills, you just hog the bandwidth.

Yeah, we can still comment and register, so don’t take the last part of the above paragraph too literally. But my God, say the wrong thing to the wrong person (a stealth moderator perhaps), and blam, the dreaded 601 error. Not even a strikethrough in your profile, you just stop showing up.

Myself, I really don’t have to worry about the fatal error, I know who’s who. I know when to shut up. I’m a “good soldier”. In other words, I may not always agree with the LT, but I know what power he has over me. I just wonder if it isn’t just time for a transfer to another unit, because this one isn’t the same one I signed up for anymore.

When Penguin is sad, something is way wrong. Too much confusion, not enough love. Something.

See, this is why I don’t post as often as I once did, ADD is kicking in and I’m rambling. I’ll just put this out to the ether and take my shots.

Miss you guys. Really. Hope you come back. Or maybe give us RedState Lite, where people don’t take themselves so damn seriously.

COMMENTS

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texasgalt

My gosh. They don’t come any better.
NeoKong

n/t
http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

And not just against RedState but against individuals.

http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

Especially someone who has a family to support. Not like there’s an abundance of jobs out there.

Whatever one may think of the person being screwed with, I’d have to say I’d be disappointed in the person who would do that.

Dan McLaughlin

There were some things we just could not tolerate. The alternative was shutting down the site and admitting defeat.

JadedByPolitics

and so it doesn’t appear as if I am part of a conspiracy I will not recco again…good diary Erick

Wubbies World

It is good to see you are still here. I survived the blast of the shock wave of the current events. I guess I need to be here more to be affected.

I look forward to being here a lot more going forward.

http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

Good to see you here! I myself recently joined the hallowed -ret ranks.

Brian Hibbert

Erick, that sentence alone should be a message to the people who run this site. There is something wrong here and I don’t think that EE diagnosed the problem correctly. I also don’t think he’s come up with the correct solution. Mass banning long time members is only going to bring this site down.

janis

conservative values, like EPU and Vassar Bushmills, is so stupid that it
just beggars belief that anyone could have thought it would go unnoticed or be appreciated by those who learned to look for their written pieces.

And, Erick Brockway, you’ve always been one of my favorites, not just due to your knowledge of so many things, but due to your utter decency and your sense of humor..

CincoSolas_del_Bronx

aesthete

would you shoot me an email? aesthetic_tucsonan@yahoo.com

Wubbies World

I think we have to know that we do not know all the current relevant information. Something tells me there is more than meets the eye here.

I remember my daughter getting suspended from school and hearing her “side of the story” and the tears on how she was innocent, yadee yaddaa etc etc..

I went to the school and talked to the superintendent, a guy I was friends with, and he presented me the evidence that my daughter forgot to mention. His evidence included the physical evidence my daughter said didn’t exist. You get the idea anyway.

Long story short– there are two sides to every story.

Something tells me that there may be a component of what is going on here that we definitely are not aware of at this time. However, I have no information either way. I just have my lessons in life that taught me that there are two sides to every story.

I will go with my “life lessons” in this matter. It is all we can do.

“”There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.” -Donald Rumsfeld-

penguin2

the real situation here. I’ve always been a woman of principle, and as someone who avidly read and supported all posters around here, and would not tolerate people abusing anyone, this indeed is not the real problem.

Erick Brockway, I’ve always enjoyed your posts and loved meeting you at the RS Gathering. You are a wonderful conservative and patriot, and congratulations again on your retirement and excellent service to our country.

Scope

about the news of your father-in-law being so gravely ill. Prayers for you and your family. Please know that you are so well loved here by all, and, if you were the standard, not many would be able to meet that standard. So sorry that your sad time has only been made more sad by the goings on here at RS.

http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

the soul of this place. Without you, girl, RS will be…soulless.

I remember when you first FINALLY got on teh Twitter, I shot a DM to EE and he said “About time!” and was one of your first follows. He’d do well to listen to you now.

This place’s main attraction is the Community. Writers we can find anywhere. When the Community no longer feels wanted, appreciated, heard – you get Tea Party. Does that make sense? I just woke up after having gone BACK to bed after having driven halfway to work before realizing it was President’s Day.

Scope

Didn’t VB post about a new upcoming site of some sort? It had zero in the name. I wonder what that is all about. Do you know? I know our penguin would know.

Did you really drive half way to work on a day off? I hope you don’t live far away.

CincoSolas_del_Bronx

Brian Hibbert

I don’t have a complete diagnosis for what the problem IS, but I’m certain that banning Vassar, EPU, Speciallist and similar long time core regulars is not the solution. I’m also fairly certain that they’re not the people who threatened lawsuits or harassed the new members to the point that they felt unwelcome.

To go more to what the problems are…. the structure of the site has changed over the years. Some of these changes were necessary to handle the shear volume increase. Others were technology changes that came along with the “upgrades”. Specifically the Member Diaries area has become difficult to use effectively. Good diaries drop off the bottom and into the ether. The Recco list was an attempt to address that problem, but hasn’t worked out as well as hoped.

Also, there are some personality conflicts between some of the major players on the site. Some of them are current front pagers and others used to be. A good portion of the “problems” are the result of those personality conflicts and I suspect they are why EPU, Vassar and Speciallist et al are now Persona non Grata at RedState.

Frankly, this is Erick’s site and if he doesn’t want to have EPU or Vassar or other quality diarists posting here, that’s his business. But the “Kraken” method of getting rid of them leaves a bad taste and I think continuing in that vein will be the demise of RedState.

Like I’ve said, it’s saddening to me. I will be sorry if it occurs.

CincoSolas_del_Bronx

Because after multiple readings of both his Spring Cleaning OP and your two comments challenging the action taken yesterday, I cannot reconcile his localizing the rationale for yesterday’s action entirely within the context of recommendations gaming (the lawsuit subset of which involved, according to Erick, a single user) and your insistence that other motivations–which wrongly affected people not involved in the gaming–were involved.
Scope

who all has been banned, but, the 3 names you mentioned were vocal against what was happening over at the diary whose comments section went up in flames. When I saw a comment by a frontpager saying that Vassar wasn’t as great as he thought he was, I guessed what was coming for him. It almost shouted, you are too popular here, and I’m not, so we will take care of that, from that one commentor at least. From reading many of the comments from the last few days, it seems that that is what some mean when they talk about personality conflicts. I have no say here, nor do I want any, but, it seems to me that if you are moderating a site, watching for content, quality, accurateness etc, it might be a good idea to not add your own personal opinions, other than warning to dial it back, or warning that someone is close to crossing the line of what is acceptable. There have been a few comments that seemed to only fuel the fires, or to lead the other posters with one’s own personal opinion. It can’t be denied that some see a comment, and then feel free to pile on. Kinda like, well if he said it it must be OK for me to say it also. On the other hand, some had the gall to call moderators and frontpagers liars. Hopefully all will now dial it back, from the top to the bottom.

Brian Hibbert

And anyone with brains should also be able to follow that thread and see what the source of the pogrom is.
Aaron Gardner
Brian Hibbert

This is a purging of RedState.
Aaron Gardner

I also find it amusing that there is such concern about moderator and contributor tone, when we are being accused of some truly awful things.
Brian Hibbert
Aaron Gardner

Look, the people who got banned all had reason to be banned. Also, there hasn’t been some massive purge, especially when you consider how many registered users we have.

What you are doing, isn’t helping the situation. If you really feel that an injustice was done, then you have better ways then the comments section and hyperbolic rhetoric to make that known.

If you think you have the whole story, then write it up in a diary and show all us nazi’s/commie’s your case.

Personally, I don’t think you have the full story and are relying on incorrect information.
Brian Hibbert

And I’m a bit irritated about the whole matter.

And you’re right, I don’t have the whole story. I don’t even know the whole list of the people who are out, only a select few. Fill us in, maybe then people like me won’t be so pissed about what is happening here.

What it appears is that SOME people didn’t get along well with the people who got banned and rather than either dealing with the personality conflicts they got rid of those who offended them.
Aaron Gardner

It is not my place to divulge that information. Sorry, but the first rule of fight club ….
Flagstaff

You don’t like “long knives” but are OK with “fight club.”

I’m not taking sides, but see how easy it is to trip over a metaphor? Of course, I didn’t see the movie, so maybe I’m off base. I’d put a smiley face here, but I’ve sworn off using them.
Aaron Gardner

The first rule of fight club is that you don’t talk about fight club. I was just letting Brian know that I can’t talk about details without betraying a trust. There is no comparison that can be made.

So, yeah, you were off base.
Michael Dugas

Referencing a movie line to the fact it’s not his place to talk about a subject is NOT the same as relating ACTIONS taken at Redstate to the actions of mass murderers.
http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison
Aaron Gardner
http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

Comparing anything to the historical treatment of the Jews (exception:genocide) is somewhere between silly and disgusting, and it ranks up there with conspiracy theories for me as a disqualifier for serious conversation.
Brian Hibbert

They imply an act purification by ridding the people of undesirable elements.

I suspect Aaron knows full well that was my intent. He just doesn’t see it from the view of those of us outside the contributers section. He says he can’t reveal the whole story and I won’t push him further. But I DO wish the people who have the authority to speak on the matter would clear it up.
acat

Those of us on the outside know something happened.. but we don’t know enough details about what, we lack *facts* to base trust decisions on.

We are being asked to trust those who are on the inside based on .. in Aaron and Thomas’ cases .. their long history at Red State.

Certainly seems wiser to me for insiders to recognize that outsiders are fumbling in the dark on this one… although I don’t think pogrom is the right example. You may have chosen the word deliberately, Brian, but .. it’s rather charged. Purge seems to fit a little better – in either the bulimic or the Soviet definition.

Mew
Wubbies World

I am not certain of who all got banned or why. I just know I wasn’t involved and I am happy to keep it that way. I saw some things go on in the posts and comments I have read that raised my eyebrows in the past year, but I stayed out of it, and I am content to keep it that way.

I remember the drama of the general election in 2008 with the Fredheads, I was one of them, and the effort to unify and marshal the effort leading into that election. I was one of the Fredheads who got thumped to straiten out and fly right here. I didn’t take it personally. It was what it was and was done for a reason. I moved past it.

There have seen some other ups and downs here, and every time feelings get hurt. It is the nature of the beast. I just do not let myself take it personally and keep a low profile until it calms down and the dust settles. Now we are going through the initial shock and drama in the aftermath. Things will calm down again and life will go on.

I am going to try and become more active again here and see how it goes this time. I love this site and I hope I never screw up and get myself banned.
acat

Which is what I think Aaron is missing – accusations that the recommend button was gamed are rather alarming. It’s not enough to persuade me that the whole “Recommended Diaries” list is crap, but .. it does devalue the list.

Ace suggested replacing the Recommended Diaries list with a daily post, something like the “Morning Briefing” only published in the afternoon. That seems like a reasonable suggestion…

To put it more plainly, if there are accusations that the recommend system doesn’t work, that it was “gamed by a cabal”, then .. one possible reply is to “take it private”, that is, to have it actually gamed by a cabal, just as Morning Briefing is gamed by a cabal of one – EE. (grin) I understand there are software limitations, but .. the Morning Briefing works, so .. clearly not insurmountable. (note – idea lifted from Ace)

Mew
Flagstaff

and I imagine others have, too.

A big problem with this kind of kerfuffle is that by our nature, conservatives don’t like having information kept from them and are loyal to friends, even friends they don’t know very well. Liberals like to imagine that they “speak truth to power,” but it’s the conservatives of the world who really do it.

We’re also persistent. So we tend to drag the conflict out past the point where we know what we’re talking about. I sympathize with both sides, and I don’t know if either one is all right or all wrong. Time for me to let it go.
Read Chesterton

Did you defend Sara Palin’s use of the term “Blood Libel” as being an accepted term for being falsely accused of murder when the usual democrat suspects lynched her in the media?

These terms have crept into the general vernacular. They are used commonly. I respectfully submit that you are learned and quite articulate enough to know that, and showing incredible ingenuousness, or if I dare say, hypocrisy, in lecturing down to anyone on this usage.
Aaron Gardner

I know that you are learned and quite articulate enough to know that as well.

But whatever, let’s just encourage everyone to escalate further instead of encouraging them to dial it back a bit.

And next time, don’t mince words, just call me a hack and a liar.
Brian Hibbert

It was about a purging.

And just as Sarah’s use of her words fit the situation, mine did as well.

I’m not calling you a hack and a liar Aaron. You’re trying to defend RedState and that commendable, but this time RedState is wrong.

Also, I understand about the first rule and won’t press you further. You are an honorable man who won’t break his word. It also means you can’t defend properly without breaking the first rule (if at all).
http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

No, wait.
Read Chesterton

Reasonable people can disagree on propriety and usage, but the terms have wormed their way into the vernacular whether we like it or not. That was kind of my point.
http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

That’s a fair point. It’s just a pet peeve of mine because it really adolescentizes dialogue. I’m more sensitive to it than I used to be because I’m a Jew by choice (adult convert), so I’ve given a lot of thought to the historical meaning and experience of Jewishness. I’m continuing this thought over where you wrote about Jewish self-hatred because I don’t want to threadjack.
Read Chesterton

Verbal jousting in online forums is a hazard, bad habit, or sport, depending on the beholders, the circumstances, the intention, or all of the above. Puns, malapropisms, jibes, cuts, and hyperbole are among the instruments.

And herein lies the problem. Like a workplace email gone terribly awry, communication in these threads can go off the rails instantaneously as we plug our own moods and feelings into the missing data that would be the intent of the writer. Mods and member alike will be susceptible… but the power imbalance will never come out in the member’s favor when push comes to shove. It’s incumbent upon all of the mods to be mindful of this, and I’ve been irritating the hell out of more than one mod in the past week or so trying to remind them. So I’m hereby standing down on the issue on “word to the wise” grounds. Its a tough and thankless job no doubt. Better people than me are on this soap box, I leave it to them. Things will settle down, no doubt.
AceInTX

given that two of them were part of a group of us that had a problem with the shut up and get in line mentality when McCain was running rough shod over the party talking about nominating Joe Leiberman to run as his VP.

There have been some hard feelings after some of the mess that came out of that and some egos were involved…both on the moderators as well as the rank and file side.

As for gaming the reco list and the conspiracy theories that go along with it…I can speak to where that came from. During the transition to 3.0 and ultimately 4.0, there was a period when the reco list was stuck….nothing could get on it and the same diaries sat on it for months it seemed. There was a group that formed at the time called the SOUR list to move the Reco list along…this posed a problem in that we ended up with posts having 20 or more recos sitting atop the list and the list never changed anyway.

I know for a fact the SOUR list no longer exists…there is no conspiracy or nefarious plot to keep people off the reco list. those that get on the list get there because they are great writers who form a following…

BTW…The list still doesn’t move fast enough…I and many more besides me have asked that the site administrators unstick it by putting a time limit on how long a post can stay on the reco list…to no avail…Instead of entertaining paranoid conspiracy theories about people gaming the reco list…maybe putting a little effort into fixing it would help…but what do I know?

As to new diarists not being able to get recognized, I and many others have asked for a link to past diaries that have fallen off the front page into oblivion….again to no avail…we have well researched and written diaries falling off the end of the list never to be seen again…this is a problem and it goes directly to why these conspiracy theories exist…new people can’t get attention because of the flash in the pan time frame they exists for anyone to find them…and then they’re gone…FOREVER!!!

Then there is the issue of setting the tone and standards of behavior through example…ig the FPers want to get rid of the name calling and vitriol on the site…then they daXXed well should stop name calling and dumping vitriol all over the site and contributors

Let’s not leave out the thin skinned with blam sticks…Ever since I started here there were some moderators who would lurk in the shadows…or roam the threads anonymously taking random pot shots at contributors in very insulting ways daring the little mice to rare up on their hind legs so they could be swooped down upon and consumed for offending the delicate sensibilities of said cloaked moderator….

I stepped on I don’t know how many toes during my first months here. I was banned more than once and I know for a fact that certain Mods wanted me to stay gone and still do…who knows…maybe this post will be their chance to prove it.

Pettiness is an ugly thing when exhibited by those who have the power of life and death over those they wish to be petty toward.

THEN you have the lackeys who latch onto those of us existing under a cloud….trolling for us from thread to thread baiting us to step over the line at which point they jump to the contact link and call in said mods with ill intent to pounce.

Add to this the sensitive crowd who are quick to throw out insults and invective only to go whining to moderatordom when they have their silliness called and they get their feelings hurt.and go off on a woe is me farewell tour about how they’re just the best intentioned people here who want to help any way they can but they just can’t take the big meanies who refuse to roll over and take their crap.

I hear about how it’s no fun to post anymore because of the big bad meanies who are ganging up on “pick your victim”…well I can tell everyone here from personal experience…it’s no fun trying to have a debate while looking over your shoulder wondering if today is indeed the day you will get the blam stick for good because of any or all of the above.

It’s no fun having to slink away into a corner because someone with a blam stick has decided they have a personal dislike for you because you’ve made them look foolish in an argument one time to many so they follow you from thread to thread challenging you and waiting for you to stand your ground so you can be sent packing…or who come riding to the rescue of said lackeys and snivelers who can dish it out but just can’t seem to take it…

This is insanity…VASSAR?….Really?

I can’t think of any time I have ever seen him involved in a single dustup in a thread?

Is he being banned because of something her said? Someone he trashed that he shouldn’t have? Or is it because he writes well…is entertaining…and people can’t wait to see his next piece and recommend him too much?

Really???

Is it really going to be site policy…that if you write too well…and get recommended too much…that you’ll be banned for some conspiracy or other paranoiac fantasy?

In other words…don’t write too well…dumb down your posts or you too will be blammed for excessive time on the reco list

(shaking head)
gekster

And I was shocked at Vassers dismissal also.
He was on the recco list alot.
He wasn’t the head of the cabal, was he?
Nahhh.
He was just a good writer,
wasn’t he?
http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

My email changed

erick dot brockway at spamcop dot net

Stay in touch.
texasgalt

because you can read the other’s guy hand. You are dead on. Everything.
pastisprolog

Both versions of what happened can’t be true simultaneously.
Scope

If you have been reading “all” of the diaries, and comments, you would be able to put it all together. I don’t think that you have been here all so long, but, Ace has been here longer than both of us. He is well aware. This may be a banning comment for me as well. It’s time that many that are on our side don’t have to feel, Fear the Reaper.
c17wife

bada bing!
That is all.
AceInTX
vmo335

it?s no fun trying to have a debate while looking over your shoulder wondering if today is indeed the day you will get the blam stick for good because of any or all of the above.

———————————————–
while pondering the redstate culling for the last few days, this comment succinctly gets to the point of the matter. while all this ego-driven pettiness is taking place over here, i discover that over at AoSHQ that the MoronNation saved the life of one of their own yesterday. Actions do speak louder than words.
Thanks for a well written commentary.

http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil_truth

Galatians 5:14-23; Ephesians 6:12-18

Brian Hibbert

And I also don’t think He’s the Kraken, he’s just given permission to others to run amok making it an apt analogy.

My comment about it being his business is just an acknowledgement that he can run his business any way he choses. But I’ve seen enough businesses go down in flames due to misdiagnosing a problem that I couldn’t sit by and watch THIS one fail without saying something.

Brian Hibbert

this was a reply to Cinco’s question.

Green_Lantern

This is a BS power struggle. Just like party politics. Feels like RS is now mainstream. And that’s not a compliment.

Aaron Gardner

In fact, I am lounging in my bed made of all the dollar bills I got for selling out and writing for free on the RS front page.

Flagstaff

or if you fan them out like a million decks of cards?

I can’t figure out what to do with mine. Not from RedState, of course, but from my share of the Obama stash that I expect to receive any day now.

Aaron Gardner

Read Chesterton

Snark in response to a heartfelt comment expressing regret over the current events is not helpful. It might appear as baiting or flame fanning. I truly hope you didn’t mean to come off as such. That would be truly disappointing to someone like me who has come so far with RS, valuing it above any other Conservative media out there, web or otherwise.

Respectfully,

Chesterton
Aaron Gardner

His heartfelt comment was to say that RS has gone mainstream. He specifically noted that this wasn’t a compliment.

Seems to me you all want to defend yourselves while refusing to allow the site, its moderators, and its contributors to do the same.
Read Chesterton

Seriously… that’s what comes to mind when I read your comments on this diary. What gives there? To wit:

Seems to me you all,/b> [emphasis mine] want to defend yourselves while refusing to allow the site, its moderators, and its contributors to do the same.

Defend yourselves against what? I’ve never been in a situation where anyone who truly deserved the title of “leader” had to defend himself for his leadership actions, style, or consequences. Never. In every case where a manager or director or VP over my head felt the need to defend his actions – every case – that person was on the short list for the door and/or the entire organization was swirling around the bowl and sinking fast.

In all my years on RS… never, ever, have I intentionally provoked or challenged the management in their right and responsibility to run the site as they saw fit. I have not questioned the dismissals, as I do not have all of the facts and lack the authority to do so regardless. I always endeavored, occasionally failed, to be thoughtful and respectful in my diaries and comments. But I think on the whole I’ve come across as honest and respectful, and maintained a reputation for same. You, Mr. Gardner, are not coming across as respectful. No snark here. Just a mere commenter suggesting that leaders get what they give, on the whole.

If I have been perceived, or am perceived, to be a “part of the problem” in recent events, I can do ne’er but apologize and try to do better. I did not take it lightly when I was blammed by the Kraken last night and readmitted by the good graces of an anonymous moderator. For that I am grateful and it is the only reason I still desire to move on from here and help RS be the best that it can be, even with me as a lowly commenter.

So if I am ejected once and for all for the crime of asking an RS “insider” to perhaps be a little better of a person than the average commenter or diarist, maybe more of a leader than an arguer or troubleshooter, then so be it. That will be at the discretion of the management.

But as a
http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

You are free to dislike what Aaron has to say (obviously), but the Captain Queeg comparison isn’t appropriate (Full disclosure: I’ve used the same comparison in the past, maybe even on RS). I know that AG can take care of himself, but you’re one of the people on here that I respect quite a bit, and that just dropped a hair.
Read Chesterton

With no defense.

Finrod

His comment was that it ‘feels like RS is now mainstream’, not that it actually is. I really wish you didn’t feel it necessary to add fuel to this kind of fire.

Aaron Gardner

Also, your personal efforts to constantly call me out for supposed bad behavior are beyond annoying.

Brian Hibbert

Green_Lantern

More than one I’d guess, from the first snarky reply above. I am shocked that someone so very important would give me a smart-allecky comment. I guess I’m flattered.

Aaron Gardner

Next time I will try to show the proper respect.

AceInTX

ever thought of that?

Your not the worse offender by far…

I’ve considered you a friend all along here…ever since you first came to my attention…but maybe you should step back and think about that’s being said here…

if moderators want us to tone down the snarks…then they should stop snarking and being so arrogant and condescending to the riff raff
Aaron Gardner

Second, my response to Green_Lantern was mild.

Third, what you and mony others keep forgetting, and I keep reminding, is that there are things that you don’t even know you don’t know. Unkown unkowns, as Rumsfeld put it.

With my third point in mind, wouldn’t it be prudent to wait just a bit before you start spinning a tale like the one up thread? Isn’t it possible that collusion existed outside of SOUR on a list that maybe you weren’t aware of?

I will tell you, it is more than possible.

Maybe everyone should just calm down a bit and stop acting paranoid. We have had a small number of members banned. No dead bodies have floated ashore today. If you have any confusion about the posting rules and how they apply to different members of the community, then you can go peruse them at your leisure.
AceInTX

it is possible there is another group I don’t know about but given those who were banned…I’d be surprised if that were the case

and I’m not mad…I’m just pointing out the atmosphere that starts from the top is as much an issue as anything I’ve seen from other members

anyway…I’ve always seen you as a kindred spirit…though that’s a little less so since you went to the front page…so don’t read me wrong…you know some of the background in what I’m saying about certain people here…and I’ll leave it at that

Brian Hibbert

And his comment was accurate. RedState is not the MSM nor will it ever be. This place was built by a LOT of people who put in great effort for no compensation (we mostly by uncompensated people).

Green_Lantern

I honestly don’t have any background on what happened with VB, just admired his writing, so I’m probably speaking out of turn. I have a habit of that.

I did, however, read the whole thread from a couple of days ago between TC and LIO.

I don’t know about gaming algorithms either. But I know what the search companies do when people do that. They re-work the algorithm.

My point about “mainstream” has nothing to do with selling out for dollars. Many people are as rewarded by pats on the head as they are by financial gains. It just seems like everybody takes themselves a little too seriously. Some people have a flair for the dramatic Crown, geez. People are different.

And an owner can ban whomever he wants. We have property rights in this country, and I love ‘em. I question the leadership value of banning in a draconian fashion. Couldn’t everybody have a sit-down at the next RS Gathering?

I guess I just hate the permanence.

Scope

He has more than once posted his email address right here in the comments sections, so I don’t believe I am wrong in reposting what he did-

vbushmills

-at-

thesandsinstitute.org

He also talked about the Sands Institute many times, which is a think tank that he created, I believe. You can google the Sands Institute and hit the contact button.

Dan McLaughlin

Don’t put a friend’s email address on the web. Bad things happen.

conservativecurmudgeon

from “Broadcast News” –one of the greatest films ever produced: “I guess I’m just too new around here. But, hey, congratulations on the promotion!”

I still don’t “get” the palace intrigue, the sniping to and fro. But, what I DO most certainly understand is the principle of private property, and the right of those who run a business to establish and maintain the ground-rules by which they run it. Without a doubt, I will miss the input (especially of Mssrs. Unum and Bushmills), but I look forward to new voices, new insights, new takes. And, perhaps one day, in the bright and sunny uplands, we will all meet again.

I will say this: Clearly many of you have become friends and confidantes, and there is a sense of mourning in the air. I am sad for your sadness and loss.

And while suggestions are being bandied about: A Glossary Section would be nice for newcomers, that don’t understand “5′s” and “nt”, and “Ban Hammer” and “Mods” and the latest takes on the latest conspiracies, argumentations, and so on. Also, it would be nice to have a “Home” button, and a general statement on how things are organized. We aren’t all Sergey Brinns around here.
http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Socrates

Stuff like this gives me writers block.

It’s taken me several minutes sitting here, trying to figure out what to say. Even now, I can’t even summon the words.

When a dog is punished for doing both the right thing and the wrong thing, and also when the rules change back and forth, eventually the dog either sticks to one behavior and takes the punishment, or just sits there whining.

Do I recommend this diary for its excellence, or will that mark me as part of a secret clique?

I think I’ll ignore the punishment and stick to barking at the doorbell.

Brian Hibbert

I think it may be the only one I get on RS today.
http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

And how come ever time I hears it, someone comes to the door?
c17wife

since this site doesn’t have a “like” button.

You have alsways been one of the best parts of RS.

Scope

to recommend this diary. I was persistent. Usually when I get to the 5th or 6th try, I just give up.

Erick B, I am sad for your sadness, as I am sad for the same reasons.

Since the “new tone” began a few months ago or so, it surely felt like everything veered out of control. We went from banning Paulies on sight, to giving them a microphone. One of them actually posted a diary that was nothing more than a screen shot of a page from Campaign for Liberty, with the big red Logo front and center. From many of the recent front page diaries, it appears that many have recognized the danger in allowing Ron Paul, and/or his supporters as loud a say as they have taken. I hope it is a part of the new new tone that we go back to saying goodbye to them when they show up, and proceed to lecture us all on how stupid we are to not recognize the best thing since sliced bread. Hopefully they will not be invited back to CPAC next year, and bring their loud crude mouths and stinky bodies. More than time for Ron Paul to drop the R after his name. He is an embarrassment to all good conservatives. That goes for the lefties that were also coming here and drooling on the site, though I’m not sure that there is a big difference between the Paulies and the Lefties.

Erick B I wish you wouldn’t leave, but, I understand that principles are principles. With the banings and the people posting that they are not interested in sticking around, I am truly scared of what is going to happen at RS. I’m even more uncomfortable now than I was when the flame war was going on.

http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

It hasn’t been burned down, yet, but it feels like a dangerous place to live at the moment.

I’m at the motel across the street, looking at the place and wondering what to do, and where every one will go.

I have friends at work, and friends on base, and when I come home I have my family – and you guys. My first vacation away from my family (other than deployments or annual training) was last summer with he people from here.

We’ve had our rough patches around here, any family does, but this has a certain – finality to it.

The thing with Ron Paul is posts about him bring out the…I don’t want to say crazies…emotional and irrational posters. The people who shouted at Cheney and Rumsfeld camp here and start rearranging the furniture, know what I mean? Of course you do, you’ve seen it. There can’t be ZERO tolerance, but there has to be some limits, and those limits tend to be arbitrary. When that happens to a friend, someone you know…

Again ADD has me looking at sparkly things and someone else will have to finish my thought. Coffee, that’s the answer.

c17wife

very nice analogy there.
Scope

Thank you for your honorable service to this country sir. I never like to miss an opportunity to say thank you to the brave, for keeping us free, and for being the strong backbone of this country. We wouldn’t be here, even in the current form, if it were not for people like you. I saw in a comment above that you are recently retired military. I just thought again about Hooah Mac who is in my prayers.

Erick, I understand exactly what you meant in your comment. If you decide to leave for any reason, and one of the now gone decide to start another conservative site, please let me know. (minpin@turbousa.com) I really doubt that some of them will just walk off and leave the fight, for our country. They are very capable and smart people. No one can stop them from branching out on their own. Another one that I haven’t seen posting is Ron Robinson. Has he been banned also?

lineholder

I’m at the same place mentally that you seem to be at the moment. I’ve got my share of questions about what went down and how it was dealt with, etc. I logged out last night, wondering whether I would be back or not. I still need some time to work through some things in my own mind. So far, here’s what I’ve got:

1) This is a privately-owned site, so regardless of whether or not we agree with how things were dealt with, it wasn’t our choice to make.

2) Those of us who post regularly on this site do feel a sense of “community” with other posters. I’ve not been here all that long, but I can feel it.

3) For every single person that posts, there could be 50, 100 or more “silent” members who do not post but always read. What they read here can have an impact on what they DO out in the real world day after day. I think this is something that regular posters, including myself, would be wise to consider, because with every word we post, we have an opportunity to encourage someone else to take a proactive role in what’s going on in our country.

It is point #3 that I think those of us in the “community” can overlook sometimes. There is this “silent” community who “watches” through reading what we communicate to each other and how we communicate with each other.

Debate can be healthy, but when “debates” become personal, then it can turn into something ulgy and vicious very quickly. Is that really what we want “silent members” and visitors to know about us? Is that the kind of example of our character that we genuinely want them to have?

Conservative sites such as RS have this tremendous opportunity at the present time. I guess I’m wondering whether we’ll put that opportunity to good use or throw it away?

I hope to meet you and others who have been the foundation of this site here on the pages on another day. I’ve so much yet to learn. So do many others who read but haven’t responded.

Goldwater_Conservative

how many “regulars” were banned in this great uprising, or whatever it was? I have only heard about 3 or 4 being banned and if thats all it was how could it have been that big of a problem in the first place?

lineholder

It was obvious on Saturday that something was going down, although no one was willing to just come out with it and speak the truth (which bothers me).

There seems to be so many things going on behind the scenes of the situation and I really have no way of knowing how that played into the events that took place.

For us, the site may seem “private” and it may seem to be our “community”, but that isn’t the whole truth. It’s public. Who knows how many people watched as the whole scenario unfolded…and what does this say about us as conservatives?

Goldwater_Conservative

the only way it makes any sense is if you know the whole story, and I bet 99% of us dont know the whole story therfore we are all very confused. I have seen the cliques and I dont like all the personal attacks but it seems that both of those issues could have been solved without mass bannings of who we are not exactly sure.

lineholder

there was a better way to resolve this than what took place….oh, yeah, baby, do I ever agree with that one!!!!!!
http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

…no matter who starts it, shut ‘em down. Time out for an hour or two. Cooler heads better prevail. I considered doing that with this post earlier, but it mellowed.

Christine (Trelaina)

that the number was small as the PTB didn’t want to do a mass ban…even though the announcements made it sound like that’s what happened.

Likely, the wording of the announcement was a stern message to those who are “on the line”.

I will admit, as a constant reader but infrequent commenter/poster, that I was very surprised to see certain people make it under the wire. That tells me there must truly be a story we do not know.

nessa

Nice diary Erick, I’d recco but just can’t seem to muster the energy. Hearing you had a diary up today was the only thing that motivated me to open the page today.

Does that motel have a bar? I’ll buy you a round and we can toast fallen comrades.

http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

And down in the corner of the bar there’s a guy who does tattoos, but I think I’m done in that department. Unless, of course, you buy me a WHOLE LOT of those beers.

http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908
g8ri

I agree if Penguin is sad,omething is very wrong.
BooBooKitty

and recommended so that will see that we stay that way!
runner12

to see all of the hurt feelings and anger out there and to lose such a talented writer such as VB.

But there are two sides to every story. I can hardly magine that the management acted without good reason. It had to be difficult to say goodbye to people who were talented writers and who had been here so long.

http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

here. The email address is vbushmills at the host name. He’s had his own thing going there for some time.

Uma Richie

EB, I am sorry to see LIO go, especially considering your introduction of her to RS. I guess this is an activist site, but I’d like to pay her the compliment of being a hyper-activist. I would never have had the nerve to check out an OFA meeting.

I have to point out that this all may have been avoided if I had published the follow up diary to “Faith in Gettysburg” as I had planned. FiG countered the hyperbole in LIO’s Gettysburg burning series, but the follow up would have addressed some of the substantial issues I had with her reporting. If I had produced it in a timely manner, we could have worked through an open debate on whether or not to connect certain dots. Instead the community is left wondering what happened behind the scenes. My failure to write it stemmed from laziness, pride, and anger, and I apologize to all.

And if you are lurking:
EPU – Godspeed! You were one of the first people at RS to be nice to me, even though I was beating a dead horse.

Vassar – Thank you for the advice about good, evil and blinking. You reinforced my real world spine.

And for Speciallist,
Without you there will be few
Haiku on Red State

gekster

Everyone earns thier own rewards.
Nothing is happenstance.
Why I have not myself been banned remains a mystery to me.
But I will take it with a grain of salt, (albeit a large one) and move on.

Uma Richie

I used the word “partly” for a reason. I think on a Conservative site, commenters should be able to own up to their contribution to a system failure. Conservatives examine their consciences. Liberals try to avoid taking blame.

gekster

But you were not the fault of others posting what they did.
It is not on you.
Please be at ease, it is not on you.

http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

$peciallist wants you to contact him:
special@pacbell.net
gekster

stephaniet

but apparently it’s gotten pretty bad. Now I feel sad but I’m not even sure why. No, wait, I am: VASSAR?! GONE?!?! *immense sorrow* I always read his stuff, beginning to end, every single word. *sniff* I don’t know what’s going on, but I don’t think I like it much.

JadedByPolitics

because we have been told the reasons for the banning are in no specific order….

The banning was conspiracy theories/birtherism.

Then the reason for the banning was the “recommends’ cabal.”

Then the reason was that some were “mean” to the newbies. Of course, with no names mentioned.

Which of course none of the above can be attributed to Vassar Bushmills or Speciallist (unless Haiku is being mean). I would just like to know what it takes to get gakked other then not getting along with the front page writers. If that is indeed the reason well say so and lets get it out front so EVERYONE knows how they should be in the future.

Sad day indeed!

LisaDe

Here tonight as if nothing has happened. On Vassar, the “outsiders” know only these certain things to be true…
1) Vassar shared his knowledge thru his incredible diaries.
2) Vassar was recco’ed every time because people waited for his new posts weekly.
3) Vassar was a gentleman, he was fair, he was patient and he was respected.
4) Vassar gets banned and we are told that we don’t know things that go on behind the scenes.
5) We are told to accept this and move as if nothing went on.
6) Who am I to judge, but who would I be without being able to show some emotion to this loss?

Numbers 1-2-3 do not add up to numbers 4 and 5. Since these facts are true it would lead one to conclude that if you write poor diaries, never get recco’ed, do not act gentlemanly and be an impatient and un-respected writer, then things should be fine for you here. I get that something went on behind the scenes, it is none of my business and it is done. Yes it is done.

Something about a dime and a cup of coffee comes to mind. No matter how great the proprietors of a store are, the wealth comes from its customers.

acat

is that while Vassar is a gifted storyteller, a good bit of his posts were made up of folksy and bromides and little else. Not bad, easy to read, just .. not heavy on the specifics. For an activist site, that’s one of the things that bothered me about Vassar – the call to action seemed a bit nebulous at times.

As for coffee, if all you’ve got is a dime, don’t bother going to Starbucks.

Mew

AceInTX

I don’t know about conspiracy theories…I know there was a mailing list at one time that came about because of a problem on 3.0….as far as I know…the list is no longer active because the problem that caused it’s formation was partially fixed…

is it frustrating to come here every day and see the same names on the reco list every day…sure it is…it bothers me even when it’s my name up there because it takes a week for it to climb to the top of the list and fall off…we’ve begged to have that fixed but nothing happens…good writers with followings get on the list…and then they hang there for a week…new folks can’t get recognized it’s true…but then again…Vasser got noticed somehow because I remember when he first showed up…and it didn’t take him long to become one of my must reads….

but I get it’s frustrating for newbies…especially since…when they post something…it’s on the list for a day and gone forever after…I’ve quit posting because I’ve had stuff fall off before someone could notice it.

I’ve learned to time when I post something for when the traffic isn’t so heavy and my post stays up longer…but again…it won’t stay there more than a day and…GONE

will there be a fix for this? I’m told WP doesn’t allow for a fix to this…which makes WP inadequate for the site’s continued survival to my mind…but will management go through another upgrade to fix it at great expense, time and aggravation? I hope so…but I wouldn’t blame them if they didn’t…

all that said…it seems to me…that banning someone because they’re consistently in the Rco list is silly at best…and destructive at worse without solid and incontrovertible proof that there was a plot with sinister intent to hog the reco list and freeze everyone else out

and it frustrates me to know end that Vassar, EPU, Specialist, Mike Devine, and several others were summarily shown the door. Some have returned…some have not…and we have yet to see who’s got the goods on whom or any evidence that said conspiracy to control the Reco list exists.

Finally…in defense of Erick…though I think the action was ill considered…I can’t imagine who the unbelievable aXXhole was who had the unmitigated gall to sue him over how he treats them on HIS site…I’d LOVE to have a crack at him or her if I could figure out who it was…but if this is in legal territory…I know we’ll never know the name…and if any of those I mention were one of those who brought the suit…I withdraw anything nice I aver said to or about any of them
AceInTX

though I think the action was ill considered

said action being the banning of these folks and the aftermath
acat

And, since I don’t know what the reasons of the Moderators are, I can’t say whether Vassar *should* have been banned. I’m not management, I’m not even management material, so .. not for me to say.

I will say that the inability of those on the front linesafter the Kraken was released to discuss was … problematic. Not their fault, but .. problematic. As in “could have been handled differently”.

At this point, I’m content to wait and see what develops.

Mew
c17wife

he should not have.
Even though I rarely commented, I read a bunch of his stuff.
Rather liked it.
And EPU is gone…well that is just reprehensible in my mind.
AceInTX

that I know of who were banned…

I think Mike is back…but there are a couple biggies there that I have a history with so this hits close to home for me as I’m sure it does you…throw in David Hinz who was banned a month or so before he died and a few other friends who have fallen by the wayside and I can’t help but think there is a design here…

but then…I don’t want to accuse anyone of a conspiracy…it could be coincidence…it might help to know who wielded the hammer and what criterion was used to select the fallen
c17wife

4 of the 5 just bust me.
I didn’t read much of Lady’s stuff, but I sure read the other four with regularity.
Something smells very fishy to me.

And don’t even get me started on Dave’s banning. Ugh!

Left to wonder if this place is going to continue to thrive as it once did or if they will eventually blow it all up.
AceInTX

I don’t know who all were kicked to the curb that we never heard from again…

Again, I don’t want to go off into conspiracy land…maybe there were good reasons…EPU went off on LEON which did him in…and he could have been more diplomatic to be sure…

it just makes it tough to see friends gone…just like that…or to get down the road and look around only to realize you’ve lost them along the way and have no idea of their fate
DONTREADONME

Excuse me for my last two month hiatus, but GC was banned? What the heck happened around here? I do not know what the goal of those bannings were, but without details it leads one to fill in the blanks (i.e., conspiracy theories) Well given the imminent shutdown of the Federal Government on March 4th I guess my writing of diaries should commence.
c17wife

they aren’t big on nutjobs spouting conspiracy theories around here these days.
Okay…snark off…
DONTREADONME
DONTREADONME

I thought you said they were real nutjobs when it comes to people spouting conspiracy theories
AceInTX

has anyone seen Pilgrim lately?
acat

so he’d survived at least the first night….

Mew
AceInTX

.
AceInTX
http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
powertothepeople

unless of course I am wrong and I have been wrong twice in the past, profiles no longer show a ban. We used to be able to see a slash through the name, but they removed that feature. So seeing his profile without the dreaded slash does not necessarily mean he is not banned.

Now, I know he was originally banned, whether by mistake or on purpose, he was back late yesterday, but have not seen him so far today. That could be because he has not posted as of yet or it could be the ban was reinstated. So I can not help the question much there. But I do know that profiles no longer show bans, so looking at a profile does not help answer the question either.
AceInTX
AceInTX

so…who knows?
texasgalt
Scope

pilgrim or bobmontgomery.
Scope

he left a comment on the food subsidies diary on Wednesday at 4:14 AM. I haven’t seen CW comment at all, but he may just be hanging low until the dust settles.
catt

I reco’ed a lot of Vassar’s diaries because he was the first name I started recognizing on the rec diary list as someone I knew I’d enjoy reading even if I disagreed. I’d hate to think that my pattern of recommending his diaries contributed to the appearance of a cabal of some sort … I had nothing else going on than wanting to encourage him to keep posting.

Okay I guess acat is right that Vassar’s diaries were lighter on specifics than they might have been. He was capable of more … and often showed it … maybe he should have gone for quality more than quantity … but none of this has anything to do with being banned does it? As diaries go his calls to action were more specific and more powerful than the average diary even if he could have done better. I also found his eccentricities and skill as a storyteller to be one small part of what makes this site worth visiting regularly. Bland and predictable calls to action can be as specific as all get out and still be blah.

I hope the ban is more of a time out sort of thing and he and the others will be back … EXCEPT for anyone who threatened a lawsuit and complained to the corporate owners … if anything deserves a permanent ban that certainly does. I can’t figure out how anyone could be have such an inflated ego and such a distorted idea of what it means for this to be a private and moderated site. A lawsuit about _what_?? What kind of a threat is it when actually filing the lawsuit would make their name public … and they’d be shunned and ridiculed for it? How could someone so crazed in the head survive long enough to become a regular contributor? Totally bizarro. Good riddence.
powertothepeople

was Ladyimpactohio. If you are a follower of Neal on twitter, you can go back to where she gloated about it and he confronted her about it.
Uma Richie

Let’s see –
She blogged about legal action to save the Sonoran Cross. Subsequently, it was stolen.
She wrote diaries regarding legal action against building code enforcement for the Gettysburg Civil War chapel. A few weeks later, it was torched.
She threatened legal action against Erick and RedState. Now a bunch of good guys are ghosts, and there is a general air of tumult on the site.

I think we can all follow her literary tradition, connect the dots, and see the scorched earth conspiracy at hand.
http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

nt
Uma Richie

Except for a few comments in January, Veronica Estrada apparently stopped posting October after this exchange:

http://www.redstate.com/ladyimpactohio/2010/10/17/kos-kannibals-support-ofadnc-eating-their-own-with-identify-theft-risk/#comment-721

Note at the bottom Veronica mentions veiled threats on Twitter. I was unable to find these threats on Veronica’s Twitter page.

Also, Jack Savage took a hiatus at the same time, from the same set of comments, but came back.
lineholder

but one of the last things I heard from Veronica was that she was considering expanding outward and righting some books.

Hope she did it, too. If you see this Veronica, we miss you here.
lineholder
texasgalt

And none of this was about you. Dona Nobis Pacem
Uma Richie

I’m sure of it. : )

In all seriousness, I am simply trying to make sense of what happened.
AceInTX

Will I be banned for calling her a “STUPID IDIOT” or can I have one indulgence?
vmo335

kicking the carcass, and jabbing at one that cannot defend themselves in this forum. a new high in lows. it gets sadder with each passing day.
acat

You haven’t seen me kicking a carcass yet.

I don’t disagree that Vassar is a gifted storyteller, or that he has something to say. I’ve said the same about Art Chance, and others who have left.

It’s critical, you see, to be honest, to not yearn for a golden age that never was.

Vassar is a very good writer. There was, however, more fluff than content in a number of Vassar’s postings. Fun to read, but .. fluff.

Mew
penguin2

There was an underlying thread and deep conviction running through them all to be active, to get going and get something done. Vassar never failed to mention Cold Warrior’s Precinct Committeeman project, and many other worthwhile concerns in the Conservative movement. He also wrote many a post helping to get candidates elected. Several of which were successful in 2010. He recently did an interview with Herman Cain, a declared presidential candidate for 2012.

The lovely thing about Mr. Bushmills style of writing, is that it connected with traditional conservatives. He spoke of the Common Man and is a Constitutional Conservative. His whole purpose in being here was to help us be more productive and goal-oriented about why he was here.

The reason he is no longer here, is not because of the usual surface things seen. He was everything that LisaDe said above. But several FP people did not like him, because he saw them as elitist. It was his opinion, and he tried to get us to understand the difference. Once he told us and me, that sometimes people will not like you, just for who you are. That is certainly a fact of life that I’ve learned.
acat

Nor do I disagree with the signature you’re using.

However.

Cold Warrior’s call to arms is quite clear. Go here. Do this.

Vassar did not, in my recollection, do that. He supported others, yes, and clearly from his writing style, he is a man with a mission – and one I support.

What was lacking was how we could help him, other than by getting active, and his calls for that were .. well, I’m not sure how to parse “traditional conservative” .. but perhaps I’m not the demographic he was aiming at.

As for the last two sentences of your post, that’s a lesson I found true long ago. Illegitimi non carborundum.

Mew
penguin2

on this site was sort of a George Washington. You need the troops and you need someone who kind of inspires in ways that reach us. He told me once he thought of himself more as a Ben Franklin. I guess everyone has their favorite founding father.

The merits of his work stands on its own. Knowledge and wisdom was in every one of his posts. Some people liked, loved his writings, others did not. But I stand by the fact that he did inspire many to grow, to write more ourselves, to step out and really become activists. I worked on two campaigns because of his prodding and pushing. And yes, I am a PC because of CW, he never lets you off the hook.

I don’t like for anyone who cannot be here to defend themselves to have such speculation going on. I’ll leave it at that.
acat

Nor accused Vassar or any of the other departed* of anything, I’m not sure why you threw that in.

I don’t like what’s going on, but I’m not conspiracy-mongering.

Mew

* exception being that I called Art Chances’ decision to support Lisa Murkowski’s write-in bid a bad choice…
penguin2
AceInTX

nt
acat

Otherwise, concur.

Mew
AceInTX
Uma Richie

was his sig line.
AceInTX

I don’t speak Latin…I assume Vino means vine…what is veritas?
texasgalt

Speaking of which, is too often missing around here. But you are doing a fine job of guessing. Kudos.
acat

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom,in water there is bacteria. — Ben Franklin

Mew
acat
proudmarinemom

…
http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

Art’s fault that a completely incompetent fool snuck in the back door in the primary in AK. That’s what happens when “unknowns” get nominated. Add in Angle and O’Donnell.

Find a credible candidate and Lisa would likely be unemployed.

That’s one reason why the move against Lugar is exciting to me. A real candidate who actually knows how to run a campaign, and a conservative to boot. I don’t know that he’ll win, but he won’t screw up the general election campaign out of either stupidity or ignorance and he won’t get beaten by a write-in candidate.
AceInTX

I see a patter forming here

McCain

Castle

Murkowski

Can Graham count on your support com 2014? Bet ya have your check filled out for him already huh?
AceInTX
http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

I supported CO’D, Angle and Miller. Sent them money in the general. Even though I knew they were fools. I didn’t support McCain either.

I happen to be realistic about the ground and I work really hard to keep from jamming my head in my nether region. As far as Graham is concerned, I certainly hope his constituents can find a legitimate candidate to run against him or he’ll win in a walk. If the AZ Republican Party had united behind either Flake or Shadegg, McCain could well have lost. They didn’t. JD Hayworth decided to run so he could pay off his campaign debt from 2006 even though anybody who knows anything about Hayworth and AZ voters knew he had no chance. None.

There is a pattern alright.
** McCain – had a very well known idiot who beat himself running against him.

** Castle & Murkowski – ran primary campaigns based on their entitlement to the seat. They got beat by rookie candidates who didn’t have a clue how to run a campaign and were awash in money from people who have more money than understanding. That simple fact was validated when a guy who was supposed to be a sacrificial lamb got about 60% of the vote in Delaware and the jerk in Alaska couldn’t beat a write-in candidate with hard name to spell. Heck, they were both so bad Sarah Palin wouldn’t even campaign for them in the general. I did more with my little lunch money donations.
AceInTX

yhou’re so blinded by your hatred for her you’ve pissed off nearly every frined you’ve ever had her…

HINZ RULE
http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

And I don’t “hate” her. I don’t think she’d be a good President, I doubt she can beat Obama but if she gets the nomination I’ll vote for her.

My only point in mentioning her is that apparently, even she could see the handwriting on the wall. Unlike some people who like fantasy stories and still believe in the tooth fairy.
AceInTX

The establishment is abandoning Lugar…

Art and his establishment buddies and Steven cronies backed Lisa and circled the wagons.
http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

one simple reason. He’s got credible opposition. Something that can’t be said for any of the others above.
AceInTX

I do miss the guy…but he was a snob and an elitist and cut from the same establishment cloth that Lisa is…I wish him no hill…I just hope he chokes or gags on his wine every time the little princess votes with the Dems because she’s mad some refused to kiss her ring and pay pledge their undying love for her…

and what of the Democrats that wrote her name in…was Miller to blame for that to?
AceInTX

What about the RINO Creeps who allied with the Dems to see them defeated…why is it you have this spiteful streak towards the parties nominees and have nothing to say about the RINOs who colluded with the Democrats to see them Defeated…there was a Republicans for Ried group that formed from the REPUBLICAN PARTY LEADERSHIP that decided they’d rather see Harry Ried reelected than to see their fiefdoms interfered with…

you’re burning bridges with a lot of people Becker…I don’t know what your problem is…but you need to back off!
http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

Especially O’Donnell who’d run statewide campaigns in the past and knew all the players, and who had their support in other elections.

I have no intention of backing off. I live in the real world Ace. If you want to muck around in the fantasy land that a crappy candidate who happens to hold some conservative positions can win elections, have at it. Enjoy being in the minority forever. I want to win. People like the guy challenging Lugar have an excellent chance of winning because they know what to do and how to do it. And he also happens to be a whole lot more conservative than Dickie who absolutely deserves to be dropped off at the home.
AceInTX
rightwingmom52

I’d take a rookie like Angle or O’Donnell any day over veteran Reid & Rino Castle. Any “feminist” bone I may have is buried pretty deep, but hearing Lindsay Graham criticize how they ran their campaigns when he didn’t lift a finger to help and did nothing to call out those who made vile and disgusting misogynist attacks on them made my blood boil.
AceInTX

for forming “Republicans for (name your Dem)” groups to torpedo O’Donnel, Miller, Angle etc and blame those who were torpedoed…

makes sense to me…

of course it never would have happened if it hadn’t been for “That Woman”.

I’m not even backing Palin….she’s half way down my list…but it drives me nuts to see they way some froth at the mouth at the mear mention of her name,,,and she’d blamed for every evil from the loss of seats in DE, NV, AK and elsewhere…plus the odd blizzard that froze the blueberry crop this year
texasgalt

and Dr. Benishek didn’t sneak into Congress.

Now, unleash.
http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

Miller got a truckload of money from Palin and from the TPs and made a last minute blitz. Combined with Murk’s entitlement attitude and a RTL plank on the ballot that brought out SIVVs, he snuck in. If he was a legitimate candidate he wouldn’t have lost to a write-in.

Who mentioned Dr.B? I certainly didn’t. He was an excellent candidate, worked very hard to establish himself with the voters in his district. Unlike the MagnificentThree who basically ran one-to-two month blitz campaigns, Dr.B worked his butt off shaking hands and getting himself know to the voters. He did a great job and I expect he’ll be a great Rep.
Scope

saying you didn’t accuse Vassar of anything. You in fact said-

“Vassar is a gifted storyteller, a good bit of his posts were made up of folksy and bromides and little else. Not bad, easy to read, just .. not heavy on the specifics. For an activist site, that?s one of the things that bothered me about Vassar – the call to action seemed a bit nebulous at times.”

Please stop changing your story to fit the person’s comment you are replying to. You did in fact say that Vassar was more or less of no value to Redstate other than being a good storyteller. This time you can’t accuse me of not knowing anything, others also very well understand what you have said in plain English.
acat

Or did that new years’ resolution also come with a thirty-day return policy?

A good number of the Vassar posts I read were all about the storytelling, not much on the “now go do this” part. Great at getting a fired-up base, but .. where were they supposed to go next?

You’re welcome to disagree with me on this, you’re encouraged to cite where Vassar said “go do X” – but please be extra careful to follow the blue lines when you do so.

Good day to you, madam.

Mew
proudmarinemom

.
vmo335

in my view, and my view only, he would be more along the line of Thomas Paine. as i recall from my recent readings and book-larnin’, Paine planted a seed. nurtured it with his words, encouraged individuals to harvest the fruit of that tree, and to plant more seeds of said tree. in my most desperate hours of 2008-2009, i read Paine, found redstate, and truly enjoyed the lessons of VB. While some have viewed VB’s writing style as a bit eccentric and ‘fluffy”, he had a style that would highlinght an unrelated topic and bring it home to make a succinct point. the same could be said of Paine. The first few works of Paine i truly enjoy reading. They ignited a country to Independence. Where I differ with Paine is on his writings of religion. I choose to look past those writings of Paine that i do not agree with. But i do not reject him on the whole. We are all on the same side. obviously we are playing on different teams, but we are all on the same side.
The mind wanders thinking what would happen with the vitriol of the jefferson/adams and Patrick Henry/james madison debates if they took place here.
Scope

and it seems from some of your recent comments you believe that one can in fact be a valuable conservative, even if they only support one leg of the stool of the three. Yes, I am remembering something that Vassar did say in one of his diaries, it wasn’t a slam to libertarians, but, it was not support of the ideology. Cat’s are very good at one thing, they never forget.

Another thing I learned the painful way from Vassar was that you don’t disparage a person who has no ability to defend themselves. You have in one fell swoop made Vassar out to be nothing more than a good story teller, with no substance to what he was saying. I very highly doubt that you would have posted what you have about Vassar if he was still capable of responding to you. He could slice your arguments in about a sentence, and you wouldn’t even know you were bleeding until it was too late to save yourself. Funny, I never saw you enter any exchanges with him while he was here.
acat

I’ll say it again.

Good day to you, madam.

Mew
AceInTX

his was to make us aspire to do great things…if only for a moment…

I don’t want to get all squishy here and I don’t do man crushes…heh…but he had his place…and he affected a lot of people…and Red State will suffer for his absence…at least…till someone fills the void
JadedByPolitics

the rest of us just get it and act accordingly.
Scope

he wasn’t the type to tell anyone to go here and do this. He gave much more credit to the intelligence of those that didn’t need a map to figure out how and where to go and to do what.
LisaDe

It is very fitting for me personally to step away from this website for awhile with a comment directed to such an outstanding person. That is you. I know that Vassar thought a great deal of you, it was obvious in his comments. I could easily post the message that has been playing in my head since last night to any number of posters here! But I must act like a lady and take it on the chin. Sometimes you gotta step away and take a breather.
proudmarinemom

We value your contributions here, LD.

This time will pass and all will be forgiven. Stay a while.
penguin2

Thank you. To be honest the only reason why I am present right now, was to tidy things up a bit and bring closure for myself.

This is a community, it was formed by the members – the members bright and articulate – connected with some, not with others. The issues that have happened here, and what I see as a great wounding that took place not only over the past several days, but happening for several months, well, it as one might say, it is done.
LisaDe

And as Vassar would have said…

Keep up the Good Fight!!!
proudmarinemom

We need you.
lineholder

We the people need you and as many others who have the heart to do it to stay.
graciegirl

I knew so many others were going to leave. This is dreadful! RedState will not be the same without so many of these hearts, minds, and souls!

Why could this have not be handled by a simple one rec a day rule is beyond me. Except for the one offender of course.

I hope you all will find your way back….we need you now more than ever..
janis

simply about the reco list is so far beyond absurd as to be the stuff of Prison Planet conspiracy theories. That’s a cooked up story to do some CYA. If you doubt it, then just look at all the backing and filling that’s been going on by the contributors and moderators since Saturday’s festivities.

Does it make sense that people who have given so much here, such as Vassar, would have been banned over something so trivial? That people so dedicated to this place, such as Penguin, would be ready to walk out the door at this point over THE RECO LIST?

Nope.
graciegirl

I have read the two main threads over the weekend and several others since where people are trying to make sense of this and mods are being defensive, well mostly but Streiff, who was very even handed.

I also thought the reco list was a weak excuse but it was the one given along with conspiracy theories and that one dried up. No of course it makes no sense about Vassar or Penguin and the others either. I have no idea what is going on only that I regret it and hope the PTB do too.

But as a relatively new person I truly am sorry I wandered into your turff.
Just because I have not been here as long as you have does not mean that I do not value the site. Next time I will try to check my feelings at the door.
janis

a rebuke to you. It was not meant to be. It was the frustration of seeing this given as the reason over and over again for actions that make no sense if the reco list was actually the problem. I only meant for those who kept being horrified at the notion that the reco list was being used for nefarious purposes to really look at all that’s been said and think about it.

Never said you didn’t value the site and you are certainly entitled to your feelings. As you may notice, many of us are wearing our feelings pretty publicly, so there’s no requirement to check yours at the door.
Again, I apologize for anything I said that you found hurtful. I am blunt when I am angry, but the anger was not at you or anything you said.
graciegirl

It was a reply to me and I thought the You was personal not general. Sorry if I over-reacted.

I guess my nerves are on edge too because I am absolutely ill at seeing what is happening here wiith the bannings and then SO many excellent people jumping ship too! I can only try to imagine how those of you must feel who have become friends fighting this fight together for years!

I don’t know if it is possible for this ship to be turned around but I certainly hope that the damage is well known all the way to the top. I am one of the foot soldiers but I need this place for inspiration, encouragement and information that I disperse to my Tea Party friends. Several were planning to go all the way to SC for the next Gathering.
rightwingmom52

rings true for me. I just started reading his earlier diaries this week and felt an almost overwhelming connection. Same goes for Mike DeVine’s diaries. And EPU’s. And Heartlander’s. EE’s, too. Maybe it’s a southern thing for me, but I connect with writers who convey their message, or call to action if you please, as if we were sitting down having a cup of coffee together. Not a lot of elitist BS and not enough ego to feel the need to lord their higher intellect over my head. And there’s no doubt the intellect is there.

I can only speak for myself, but Vassar’s words inspired me to be a better person and as such a better conservative. Heartlander has provoked me to get more involved in pro life activities and GC in the fight against Obamacare. When EE is angry, I feel it. That’s when I’m most likely to get on the phone to my reps and/or donate to whatever cause he’s recommended. Not everyone on my must read list has been banned, but those that are have left some very big shoes to fill.
klondike

Folksy and bromides and little else?

Activism can be little more than rah rah. I fear conservative activism, if left unchecked, will not differ from liberal activism within a few years if we do not go deeper than activism.

Vassar’s writings brought true convervatism back to its core – he reminded everyone of why we want to preserve not just our republic but our communities and our families and our lives through decency and honor and integrity. He did it through history lessons – true happenings that likely will never be taught in schools to our children or our grandchildren in history books. And not just happenings in our country – the human condition everywhere.

My hope is that you will step out of the fray and go back and re-read Vassar’s writings.. I think you will come away strengthened and hopefully renewed to fight onward. Then, I think, you will see the true value of his writings.
c17wife

“Vassar?s writings brought true convervatism back to its core – he reminded everyone of why we want to preserve not just our republic but our communities and our families and our lives through decency and honor and integrity.”

And that he has now been silenced is a travesty.
acat

Maybe I’m the wrong demographic.

Give you another example, I can’t stand watching Glen Beck’s cable show.

I don’t *disagree* with Glen Beck, or with Vassar. It’s just that .. their message doesn’t hit me the right way. I enjoyed reading Vassar’s stuff, for a while, especially the eastern european stuff. I’m also a traveler, that is, when I go to a place I like to get inside it, not just see it through tourists’ eyes. That, I could relate to… but .. like I also said to Penguin, I wasn’t clear on what Vassar wanted me to *do* that I wasn’t already *doing*.

Mew
klondike

The point I was trying to make is, if you absorb what Vassar was trying to impart, you will know what to do.

As you said, Cold Warrior has given you tools. Vassar reminds you of the reasons why you want to do what you do. That will strengthen you. Without some of the wisdom he has imparted, you will just end up doing for the sake of doing because someoe told you to do so. You don’t strike me as someone who wants activity for the sake of activity.

Am I wrong?
acat

I want activity. I want Tea Parties in the street. I want to see the Wisconsin Senate pass a Voter ID bill, and the voters of Indiana elect Mike Pence, and the voters of Illinois elect *anybody* but Dick Durbin … and that takes activity.

And I know *why* I want it… when I look at the world I’m going to live the rest of my life in… that my kid is going to live in. I *get* the *why* part.

What I don’t always grasp – have usually not grasped, is the *how* part. That’s what Erick and Cold Warrior do so well… and, to my admittedly imperfect recollection, Vassar did not do.

Wrong demographic.

Mew
AceInTX

just some friendly advice

heh
acat
http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

you could get a bigger backhoe.
acat

Professionals use wit, charm, and – in my case – being small and able to hide.

Mew
Brian Simpson

to: Always remember that it’s “holes” and not “hole”.
AceInTX
http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

Thanks for the giggle.
texasgalt

He is about the handshake. He is about the shoulders we stand on. He is about the common man, but he has no problem with the elite. He has a big problem with elitists.

Vassar is a man of the virtues, what Russel Kirk referred to as the “permanent things.”

http://www.kirkcenter.org/index.php/permanent-things/

As Vassar has said, the wahr can’t be won sitting behind a keyboard or tweeting kool. It’s won on the ground and in the precincts. That’s why he was a big promoter of Cold Warrior and others who know you have to get inside the party to affect real change.

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2010/09/07/introducing-concord-project/

http://theprecinctproject.wordpress.com/

http://procinct.net/
____________________________

*These opinions are my own, based on his comments here and elsewhere. I am sorry he is no longer here to express himself.
JadedByPolitics

only to someone who obviously did not TRULY read them enough to see the threads of action rolling through his diaries…re-read them, obviously you missed something that a majority of the other posters did not.
acat
JadedByPolitics

observation ie: for me.
acat

if someone disagrees with you about the value of a thing it is an issue with the person in disagreement, yes?

I agree Vassar tells a good story. Talent for writing.

I don’t see the call to specific action in his writing.

Inspiration, yes. Direction, no.

And, for what it’s worth, the first time I tried to talk to you, you called me a tool. I haven’t forgotten that. It’s .. somewhat lessened, in my opinion, the value of your opinion.

Mew
Common_Cents

What a weak comment especially when someone is gone and cannot defend themselves. I suggest you email your comment to VB and report back the response. It’s the right thing to do.
Common_Cents
acat

1) My comment was in reply to others’ comments.
2) VB has clearly not left the building – if the posts others’ have put up with messages from him are to be believed.
3) I stand by my position.

The “right thing to do” appears to be to accept that something went down, and either stay at Red State and continue the fight, or – if that’s intolerable – find somewhere else.

Mew
Common_Cents

Get used to what disappointment?

So VB is not banned and you knew that at the time you made the comment?

Are you a spokesperson for RS?
acat

I don’t know whether VB is banned or not. I also do not care. That’s the affairs of The Directors.

Some have suggested that people here may contact him and provide an address. Some have posted messages they have received from him following his apparent departure. If you wish to search for the messages or reply to VB, that is your choice.

My review of his posts is my opinion, and I stand by it. I think he set out to do good by inspiring people to get active, and evidently he succeeded. I did not find his posts to be nearly as wonderful as, apparently, others did. As I pointed out to Klondike in these comments, I may just be the wrong demographic.

I do not speak for anyone but myself.

You are acting in a way that appears foolish.

Mew
janis

Common Cents is an eminently sensible person. Foolish, to me, is someone who ends every single comment with the ridiculous “mew.”

That’s creepy even if a woman were doing it, unless it’s on some cat fanciers board. For a man to do it over and over again? That’s just wrong, dude. Climb out of your litter box, get rid of the ear mites, and try being a human for a while.
c17wife

LMAO!!!
5…to infinity and beyond!
Common_Cents

I learn something new everyday.

woof!
Common_Cents

woof doesn’t fit.

Cha-Ching makes more cents.

cha-ching
Scope

everyone, as you well know. VB was a traditional conservative, that valued long held traditional conservative values, especially with respect to social issues. There are some that want to redefine those values, or discard them because they don’t fit certain people’s “demographics” and lifestyle choices. So, VB has to be marginalized into someone and something of no value, though his diaries were always top hits, and the majority really enjoyed his diaries. You had to agree and understand his philosophies for the most part to find the real value in them. As I said above, it was one of my most painful lessons, taught to me by VB, that you don’t speak out, especially negatively, with anyone who has no opportunity to answer the charges. I felt like a coward, it smarted for a little while, I got over it, but it was a valuable lesson in life. Some don’t ever learn those lessons, because it wouldn’t fit their ideas and demographics. Some don’t even understand the message of holes, they just keep digging down further. It’s OK, let it go, keep yourself on the high ground, and move on from a losing battle.
acat

Good to know.

Mew
c17wife

I think maybe you should step away fromt eh keyboard for a while.
There is just no need for these kind of comments.

Meow…
acat

Scope and I have clashed. Frequently.

I had thought we had agreed to not speak, but .. she’s not willing to let this go.

I have tried being nice, I have tried saying nothing. Neither work.

Open to other suggestions.

Mew
c17wife

walk away from the keyboard. That is all…
acat

found the posts from Scope below.

Should I be walking away again, and at what point does that become walking away from Red State entirely?

Mew
http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

you are simply jousting at windmills with the individual in question. While she seems to have a corner on passion, there are a number of critical elements missing from the toolbox. Been that way since day one, not likely to improve. I’d recommend a pic of ZombieBunny as the most appropriate response about 95% of the time and walking away the other 5%. YMMV.
acat

(hoping sweasel will forgive my deep-link)

Mew
Scope

for you and all to see. You just can’t let anything go, can you. You are just so cocky that you think you can have at it with anyone who disagrees with you. You refuse to see how wrong you are on the VB comments you have made, and, have decided to double down on your ideas that have not been accepted by most eveyrone here. You are so cocky that you think that your ideas are more important, and to you they are, because your ideas are all that matter to you in your small isolated world. Many have asked you to stop digging yourself in deeper and deeper, but you and your opinions are all that matter to you. Get over yourself already. With your comments about VB, you have belittled yourself beyond belief. Everyone is trying to tell you that, yet you seem to be tone deaf. Do you ever come out of your little narrow world, at all?
Scope

as being nothing more than a stroyteller, that has nothing to add to RS, do you understand how many that think your less than conservative ideas are no conservative value add to RS. You refused him because he posted an idea that was less than a libertarian value, and promoted much more than you ever have as to values. Like I said somewhere above, cats never forget, and never relent. I know, I have a cat.
http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

earlgrey

I am not a good writer and not a terribly good philosopher or student of history. I am just a footsoldierr that comes here forr inspiration. When i got a reco from him it just felt like an honor I didn’t deserve.

It is hard for me to see him as someone who had to be removed from this site. Perrhaps it was just a situation that got out of hand. A small dispute that just kept escalating. We;ll never know.

vmo335

let him know. you can access his email via his link through his profile. not sure how much longer his link will last here.
texasgalt

Lord knows we have plenty of bloggers. I tip my hat to you earlgrey.

earlgrey

DONTREADONME

Penguin? It’s like I am standing where a train derailed but there are no tracks, dig-ins, coal dumped, or broken limbs from the surrounding trees. I guess I will have to do some investigative work. When did a RS civil war start?

c17wife

seems more like a get in line or else to me.
But what do I know.

GC, EPU, Vassar, $pecialist…all casualties of eating our own.

Penguin, Jaded, myself, and several others are left standing on the side going…now what?

lineholder

do you believe that we are genuinely at war for this country? We need you guys here, if you can find it in your heart to stay.
DONTREADONME

GC pieces were always enjoyable, and I did like the company of $list and EPU. Vassar, I will have to read his posts that are still logged here. As my two offspring become more able to entertain themselves I am going to get kicked right back into this stuff.
proudmarinemom

I humbly request that you stick around.

Together, we’ll all fix what’s wrong.

Semper fi.
vmo335

Penguin, Jaded, myself, and several others are left standing on the side going?now what?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
for the evolution, the ressurection.
and it won’t be on this site.

the war we are engaged in won’t be won by one marine division. but only by coordinating with marine, army, air force, and navy elements. we may be on different teams, but we are on the same side.
rightwingmom52

I’m a relative newcomer, but I’ve read enough of what PMM and Lineholder have said to trust their judgment.

Common_Cents

Not sure what happened but we aren’t going to win being divided. It seems a variety of factors have come to a head. At this rate the only tent we’ll need is a pup tent. This site has often run in the direction of intellectual elitism that discourages membership and participation, rather than a source of education about the benefits of conservatism to grow membership.

Is RS going to be a niche elite discussion club full of conservative snobs?, or a larger conservative activist site? If the latter is desired, egos (mods, FP, members alike) need to be checked at the door and maintain perspective on the big picture. 80 percent is your friend and I see a lot of immature bickering over the remaining 20 here.

I’m gonna give it a bit more here to see if things improve or I’ll spend more time elsewhere.

c17wife

for many of us now…

…”Is RS going to be a niche elite discussion club full of conservative snobs?, or a larger conservative activist site?”

We shall see.

“If the latter is desired, egos (mods, FP, members alike) need to be checked at the door and maintain perspective on the big picture.”…Amen on that one!

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

RedState *originally was* a niche elite discussion club full of conservative snobs. We’re continuing to move away from that.

janis

Now it’s a niche elite discussion club pimping electability over all else.

bk

I seem to recall Erick saying that he’d rather have a Dem in the DE Senate than Castle.

And anyway, the whole “electability” thing is rubbish anyway as often as not. For every O’Donnell it seemed there was also a Rubio, when it was Crist who was the only “electable” one according to the “experts”.
hoosierteacher

It came up on Drudge and Fox. Thank God we don’t have her in office to get photographed in a tiger suit or shirtless on twitter/facebook like some of our other recent congress criters.

I think a lot of people dropped the ball on supporting O’Donnell (including Erick). I favor bumping weak republicans (Bennet in UT for example, Specter in PA, and in 2012 Lugar in Indiana). But Castle was a shoo in, and O’Donnell never had a real chance. Every time she opened her mouth I cringed. I can’t stand Castle either, but at least he was a liberal republican and not a nut case.

Lied about her academic background? check. Made some silly witch comments on a lefty talk show? check. Hinted that her opponent is a closet gay? check. Currently under an FEC investigation for mis-use of funds? check (started this past December). Fired from a conservative institute, turns around and sues it for gender discrimination, and gets laughed out of court? check. Filmed having a one night stand? Check.

The tea party made some stupid choices in some states, but they more than made up for it in others (with Florida being the gold standard).
http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Do you have anything factual to say now?
c17wife

That’s all you have for a long time member?
Trollish?
That is beneath you.
http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

The idea that the front page is “pimping electability over all else” is just completely false, and I won’t let it go unchallenged.
c17wife

around here a long time. Like the chicken and the egg, I’m really not sure who came first.

Call it a lie if you want. Here is the reality…

It is a perception that is held by many. Whether you think it a lie, false, or just plain BS…it is a perception that RS is projecting. And you know what they say…perception is everything.

Ignore it, blast away at those who say it if you must…but know this, RS suffers in the end.

I stand by my earlier comment. Your attack at Janis was beneath you. I can’t figure out if it is battle fatigue or what, but I know you are better than those words.
Brian Hibbert

Come on Neil… I know you are trying your best to defend the actions of the past few days. But they’re indefensible.

Try fixing the problems instead of compounding them.
http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

I won’t have people just making stuff up about the site and go unchallenged.

Our record speaks for itself and I won’t stand by while people just make stuff up.

We get it. You’re bitter over some bannings. But that’s not license to start making stuff up and turning the comments section into a perpetual whine fest.
c17wife

I think you pretty much hit it.
I guess we’ll see if we are wrong or not going forward.
Uma Richie

I’m not looking for a response from either of you, but I just wish you could evaluate how much of your current dissatisfaction with RS stems from the treatment of Ladyimpactohio and the subsequent banning of those who opted to throw their lot in with her. Whatever that amount is, I would beg you to subtract it. Using her standing with the moderators as an indicator of site elitism will produce a false measurement.

Again, I terribly regret not responding point for point on her ridiculous Gettysburg diary series, especially now that I understand that she is the one who has threatened to sue and that she was the birther plaintiff in Greenberg v Brunner. I think Thomas Crown’s role as the catalyst for her removal caused the conflation of two issues, namely front page elitism and a wayward member with a strong following. I am so sorry that I didn’t help deal with LIO in December so that dissatisfaction with management could be addressed separately.
c17wife

I have no idea who this ladyimpact person is.
Never read a diary of hers.
My issues with RS go more to the overall tone and treatment given to some who have been longstanding members and contributors.
My participation has steadily declined over the last two years.
The reasons for this are multiple.
This is just like a straw…nothing more, nothing less.
Uma Richie

No explanation was needed, but I appreciate your reply.

I hope all goes well in your possible countdown to retirement. My guy just passed the 17 year mark, and I wonder how much (non-violent, proverbial) fighting for our country we’re going to have to do in post-Navy life. No rest for the weary…

Cheers!
AceInTX
AceInTX
c17wife

it hasn’t changed.
If not GC has it and can put you in touch.

Still walkin’ the line….
AceInTX
ocleverone

I had read several of LIO’s previous diaries and a few I recommended but the Gettysburg diary had me totally confused.

I had only visited Gettysburg but that was not the impression I had of the town or the people there.

When it was first put up, people were recommending it frequently – so I read it and was taken aback by the content. It was sensationalism.

You were one of the few voices saying “wait a minute”. I was actually relieved that there were others that thought it was a bit much.

I quit reading her stuff after that diary.
runner12

And will humbly ask pardon for being on the wrong side of the issue on that one. You tried to tell us the truth, but even I was caught up in all of it on the Gettysburg diary.

I should have listened to someone, like yourself, who was actually familiar with Gettysburg.
Uma Richie

It sounds like for many the issues run deeper than a single diarist. On the bright side, some old familiar handles appear to be reengaging.
Uma Richie

Just so you know, but for the Grace of God (and some not-so-subtle prodding from c17wife) there too I would have gone.

My first diary:
http://crosstabs.net/blogs/uma_richie/2008/may/05/one_more_for_the_clinton_body_count
streiff

We didn’t push My Man Mitt in 2008.

We backed Pat Toomey a couple of times.

Nikki Haley? Mike Lee?

How about the shoot out in NY between Scozzafava and Hoffman where we went against the electable choice?

Deleware? We went against Castle even though we knew O’Donnell was a lost cause from the beginning.

Sorry, but this kind of comment is simply a self beclowning. I understand how people’s feelings have been hurt over this but if you’re going to criticize us do it over what we did not what you imagine we have done.

Common_Cents

I’d think it was more activist and educational to grow the conservative brand. I get the feeling this site wants to stay a smaller niche discussion site.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

See the posting rules, which say:

The purpose of RedState.com is:

* to promote conservative ideals within the vehicle of the Republican Party,
* to clean house in the Republican party,
* to help elect conservative Republicans,
* and to encourage and educate conservative Republican activists committed to the above.
Scope

as to the niche discussions. For quite a while now, there have been endless discussions that seem to go in circles, never result in an answer or consensus, as though some things have never been settled.

Take the GZM for example. When that was a hot topic, there were some that argued in favor of allowing the Mosque to be built, because the person who owned the property had the right to do what they choose with their property. Property right trump all. Also, it was the right of the Imam Rauf to practice the religion of his choice because in the US we have separation of church ans state, and everyone can practice the religion of his choice, even though Islam is not only a religion, it is also a political system which promotes and adheres to Sharia Law. That very well may be factually correct, but, with the War on Terror, instituted after 9/11, and with abundant history past and present, from those that hate America, and consider us the big satan, it would be giving free reign, right on our own soil, to those that have been connected with radical Islamic goals. Rauf has been tied to terriorists groups. Listen to the rhetoric coming out of the middle east as to the hatred many have for Americans, and America. Obama has done nothing to change their minds.

Consider the social issues. There have been thousands of words typed here in the threads from those that have not accepted that “traditional social” values have been developed over the ages, and the strong traditional values are what helped to make this country great and strong. Take gay marriage for example, there are those that want factual scientific evidence that gay marriage is destructive to the society. You can consider gay adoption in the same light. Some want scientific proof that having two moms or two dads is destructive to a childs development. There unfortunately are some that do still believe that you can be just a little pregnant, and that up until a certain period, it’s nothing more than a ball of cells, and that it is up to the mother if she should be “punished” with a baby or not, after all she is the owner of her body. That’s just two of the major areas of social conservative discussion that has been long taking place here, as though there has never been traditional values, because they can’t be proven scientifically. Even the existence of God has been a part of the discussions because no one has scientific, or eyewitness proof that God really does exist. There is argument on bible interpretation, especially with respect to “render unto Ceasar.”They are circular discussions, which in my mind only serve the purpose to try to convince others that long held social conservative traditional values are still debatable and not settled.

There are those that call themselves conservatives that believe we are acting like an empire, and participating in nation building because of our hubris and conceit. Some put our fiscal problems on the top of the list, as though Ron Paul may just have something there with how much money we would save if we closed down all of our foreign bases, brought all of the troops home, cut back on the defense budget, and make love not war. It’s America’s fault because we have poked our noses in other countries business. Hey, let them alone and they will all magically love us Americans. Look at how much money we can save.

There are conservatives that have posted right here that we really do need to get with it and support wind mills and solar panels. And, I don’t want some ugly nuclear power plant in my backyard, which by necessity would have to be in someone’s backyard to exist.

There are many/some who say they are strong fiscal conservatives, but, don’t agree with the other two long held traditional conservative planks. They say they will vote for the Republican candidates because the Republicans were always historically closer to their fiscal policies, and hey, you need my vote to win elections. If the Democrats ever figured out fiscal responsibility, those mentioned would run to the Democrat party in a heart beat, where the other two planks are much closer to their belief systems.

I think that this is why so many times you see people here asking, just what is conservatism? EE posted a diary months ago where he described the difference between conservative the noun, and conservative the adjective. There is also Conservative and conservative. As an activist site, wouldn’t we be well off to counter the circular arguments with some good lessons and education to instill conservatism in the heart, soul and bones of our activists, so they never have to ask what it is again, and can apply it to all issues across the board?
pastisprolog

How is that really different from putting the UN (which was specifically NOT targeted) in NYC?

Then, there’ll just be two large institutions in NYC dedicated to overthrowing liberty and our way of life.

Wait, wasn’t that also the last Congress?
Scope

of those that keep wanting to debate what are conservative values, as though nothing has ever been settled, and that the long held and respected conservative traditions are about as good as Obama’s opinion of the constitution. My point was that many here are confused because the definitions of conservatism keep being changed or muddied, and through some of the comments it appears that that is a goal in and of itself. There isn’t many a Ron Paul supporter that holds anything traditional, especially with social conservatism of any value. They keep wanting to move the goal post further and further to the left, until there isn’t a difference between a Liberal and a conservative social value. If you haven’t seen it on these pages yourself, you’ve had your eyes closed. There is a very big difference between the GZM issue, and the UN who has been in NY for years. I want the UN gone from our soil, just as it would be foolish to start honoring the radical Islamist terrorists, giving them a comfy home in our country, and being compassionate for their views on Sharia law.
pastisprolog

We got the UN in part because of the same, “Can’t we all just get along,” thinking that is true for some GZM (not all) supporters. The whole idea of the UN is progressive. (So is allowing the GZM) What we got is 200 dictatorships telling 70 more-or-less liberal democracies what is wrong with us.

The idea that there is no good reason to dis-invite our enemies from setting up shop here is naive at best. I have another word for it.

I have an aversion to libertarians that comes from having been one, and is similar to that felt by ex-communists for their former fellow travellers.

Your entire post was well done and I agree with what you wrote. I’ve been writing the same ideas around here for the last couple of days.

I hope this clears that up.
http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

“Well I should say so, since it’s charter was created by a communist.
Scope

Sometimes I can be very dense. I was kind of surprised when I know you have been posting some other great comments, We are truly on the same page. Sorry for the misunderstanding. That is actually telling about being a libertarian, and now understanding the fallacy of their ways. There is someone else here that posted a diary about the same kind of awakening. Welcome to real conservatism.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/ Eric Olsen

…who feels this way, but then again, maybe I’m every bit the colossal jerk my wife believes me to be, and I”m all alone here.

I first registered at RS early last spring, posted a few diaries, then basically stopped participating altogether. Not due to any dissatisfaction with anyone or anything mind you – I really just didn’t have the time to devote to it anymore once things picked up for me professionally.

I’ve still made it a point to check in on the FP and scan the recco’d diaries if a title catches my eye every day, but to be perfectly honest, I’ve grown rather weary of the seeing a few of the same names putting up the same pedantic, self-righteous, self-important, un-proofread claptrap.

However, perhaps what has become even more annoying is this High School Musical Meets Glee nonsense where campfire are started and all the “in-crowd” sit around lamenting the good old days when “it was just as few against the world, kid!”

Please. If EE’s actions manage to break up some of the stupefyingly annoying Mutual Admiration Society I run into in the upper right-hand column, then all the better.

I come to this site as a source of information and conservative opinion. I sure as heck don’t come here to sit around and pee and moan about the management and lament the loss of people who regarded RedState as some sort of high school theater clique.

Yeah, you may say I’m a jerk, but I’m not the only one, people.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/ Eric Olsen

Reason number 3 why I stopped posting diaries:

Apparently, having a “preview” button costs a bit more than anyone here wants to spend.

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

Comments can’t.

JadedByPolitics

yep that about covers it.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/ Eric Olsen

No argument here.

proudmarinemom

and thought these were comments on the “circumcision prohibition law in SF” thread.

Now that I have regained composure, i still think these last two comments belong there.

Teasing.

proudmarinemom

for that, but TBone’s jokes were racier.

heh.

Christine (Trelaina)

I felt pretty bad the whole thing at first. Today I came back to this diary and read the most recent posts.

My opinion has changed. Drastically.
conservativemusician

And no, I don’t think you’re a jerk for writing this. In fact, you voice a lot of what I have been thinking as I have made my way through a number of the silly comments in this diary. Because of what I have read and the resulting disappointment/disgust, I will be taking a break from posting here for awhile (unless someone responds to this comment directly), but before I leave, a few thoughts come to mind:

1) I’m saddened that it appears this site has become a cult of personality as opposed to simply debating the issues from a conservative viewpoint like the adults we claim to be here. I don’t come to this site to follow specific diarists and commenters. I can figure things out for myself and then base my responses accordingly…regardless of whether the diarist is an FPer or not or how long they have been posting here.

2) As you allude to in your post, this is not about reminiscing about the good old days, or how things have changed, or how long people have been here, etc. I’ve been here over two years myself, but so what. Big deal. I could care less about that. It is my perception that people are to be placing too much emphasis on that point and are seemingly justifying the behavior of the banned diarists because of their long (and until recently) respected tenure. This is simply not acceptable to me.

3) I don’t care how “respected” certain posters/FPs/mods, etc. are in the eyes of other long-time posters/diarists at RS. If I were in EE’s shoes and anyone on this site threatened me or any of my loyal co-workers with a lawsuit, they’d be gone – period – and a countersuit would be on their desk pronto. No one should be immune from being banned here if they get out of line…no one…no exceptions…ever. Everyone needs correction now and then and it is up to the folks who run this site to do this pruning on a regular basis as a service to us all as well as others who may not be conservative but who also come to this site. As I’ve commented before, I’ve rarely if ever seen a banning on this site that wasn’t well deserved.

Something else for the more emotionally charged commenters in this diary to consider. Effective leadership means making hard and sometimes controversial choices. More often than not (especially when there are sensitive issues like this one), the arrows fly at the leader – even though it is not necessarily due to a misstep by the leader. The leader often is in the lonely position of being faced with no-win situations where decisions have to be made for the good of the organization that make lots of folks angry. I know firsthand how lonely it can be making hard decisions in the workplace because I lead people too. With this in mind, I fully support EE’s decision to do whatever is necessary to ensure the long-term health of this site…even if it means removing long-serving respected diarists. If we are really serious about wanting RS to continue being a great conservative site, then this painful step is necessary and should be employed as often as is needed.

In closing, the best and most succinct comment in this whole diary is Neil’s earlier post which reminded us all of what the purpose of the site is supposed to be. Therefore, I think it would behoove the posters who have been griping at the mods and EE indirectly over this unfortunate situation (who BTW have shown remarkable restraint in allowing the venting to continue) to reread the posting guidelines and take them to heart.

Great post Eric.

Respectfully,

conservativemusican

Christine (Trelaina)

Please do not use this post as the basis for your decision. Looks like this had to happen unfortunately, and there may be some aftershocks…but the point of it is to get back to balance.

RedState is experience some severe growing pains. It’s to be expected. We’ll grow out of them

conservativemusician

(n/t)

http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

The bloodletting that occurred could probably have been done differently (eye to eye and here’s why) but it is done.

For better or worse, it’s time to move on.

RS

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