On Tuesday, dhorowitz3 posted a list of Democrat congressional candidates the NRA has endorsed in the coming election. I assume a check also changed hands.
The comments after the post are very interesting as some of RedState’s best observers joined in there, a thing (I noted only today) you still can’t find at the DailyCuss. There were several threads of interest, but especially, (to me, at least) and worthy of further analysis, was the general cry of incredulity…
What are they thinking? That by supporting Democrats the 2nd Amendment will be safe after the other nine are destroyed? The NRA is actually content in the knowledge it will be the one the alligator eats last?
My comments:
Corporations, for-profit or not-for-profit, cannot commit crimes. Or sins. Only in a cosmology headlined by a Marxist Heaven can we find a Hell populated by corporations and other non-sentient beings.
But people can commit crimes…against the state, against Nature, and against their bond (their own word). The only plausible theory as to why a corporation such as the NRA would make a choice such as they have made, by trying to keep Democrats in power in so many key, closely-contested districts…is that it must be to the benefit of only a few, probably not more than a handful, of people. This is a very human choice. And this isn’t really rocket science. Nothing the NRA leadership can say can elevate their motives above personal avarice…or maybe that key members of their families are being hostage in an undisclosed location…or dirty pictures are involved.
In other words, they’ve been bought off.
How? I can’t say. Dirty pictures almost always work, just as horse’s heads in the bed do. But for guys like Chris Cox, why stain the sheets when maybe a cheap box seat among the Ruling Class will do?. Who can say, but there is no doubt that if the Democrats can hold onto power, the 2nd Amendment is history.
Or is it?
Of interest to you should be the historical fact that under the Soviets, only “the people” couldn’t own guns. There was otherwise an abundance of guns…fine Tokarevs and Makarovs…buried away under those thousands of apparatchik polyester suits moving en masse up and down the escalator at Moscow’s Metro Station. (In winter they look like a herd of buffalo cresting a rise in a Catlin painting.)
Under the fascists in Italy and Germany a slightly different arrangement was made, as we got a taste under Bill Clinton, when by executive decree he banned cheap Soviet/Chinese surplus rifles and priced their ammo, affordable to working class folks who liked to go out plinking with their kids down by the creek, right off the market…while still going duck hunting with his pards using a $3000 Mossburg, drinking brandy from a sterling flask. Rule: Fascists like to play up the accoutrements of the State Class, while Communists tend to try to hide it. (I’m betting fascist with this bunch, but I digress.)
Under either form of socialism the Second Amendment can still be “preserved”…only not as any of you would recognize it. In fact, the other amendments will be diluted beyond all recognition as well, but will still be hailed as the finest document ever written…sort of like Al Sharpton praising Dr King’s speeches. This is what the presence of the femme fatales Keegan and Sotomayor, the twin ignorami, is supposed to portend, a new moon for an old document.
In this way, the Dems can still appease the anti-gun Left by acknowledging that, a la the Soviets, only the state will have guns (for crowd control), while quietly allowing that the “approved Ruling Class” will also have guns, only “off the books” so to speak, about which little or nothing need be said. After all, the rank-and-file anti-gun folks, the squeaky wheels, will never see them anyway. Who takes them hunting at private state preserves anyway?
We’ve already seen this corporate behavior with AARP, who sold its seniors down the river with not so much as a backward glance over Obamacare…for probably the same, very personal, very avaricious human reasons as the NRA. You see, like the NRA, the AARP, even if 60% of their members leave, they can still remain the “official” spokes-organ of seniors, just as NOW still is for women even though their membership wouldn’t fill out a good bridge tournament. It’s easy, for all one needs is for the national media to proclaim you so…and this, I think the NRA bosses would like very much, to receive national respectability from the inside the Beltway media. Such acclaim isn’t in the blood (DNA) of its members, mind you, who are contrarian by nature, but their Washington leadership are clearly toads.
If you haven’t noticed, as either an AARP or NRA member, current or ex-, unlike a private corporation in which you hold shares, you can’t really stage a shareholders’ revolt, sue and demand the corporate officers be removed, etc…even though they have violated every fiduciary code of ethics imaginable. (Point of legal order, tell me if I’m wrong Leon.) Episcopalian parishioners nationwide found this out when their parent Church of England took a hard left at the Holy Trinity, (almost) denying the divinity of Christ in favor of “social justice”, only to find out the churches they’d built with the sweat, toil and dollars, actually belonged to the aforementioned CofE, and in part the QofE, head of said Church. See? True Christians go back to the catacombs. But God bless ‘em, they are are there, worshiping as always, growing while the CofE is declining almost as fast as Sharia law can replace it in England…in the name of social justice.
If you’re an NRA member, about all you can do is deny them your annual dues and write a letter about how pissed off you are…which no one reads.
But …
…you can, just as we’ve discussed here about elected officials, vis a vis the citizens, make them afraid. Very afraid…for their jobs, their perqs, their retirement plans, and their good names.
And if this New Wave Congress is anything it purports to be, you can demand these new members find new spokesmen for the Second Amendment (someone call Dan Benishek MI-01, as the NRA endorsed the union thug McDowell in that district) Check dhorowitz’s list, above. Every GOP candidate needs to know what’s at play here. The NRA leadership, as we know it has to go. If they take the whole organization with it…so what?
I’d earlier recommended here at RS that the new members of this new Congress come to town as a unified brigade. Any candidate on this NRA list should pledge to put the “Mark of Soros” on every nickle the NRA tries to spend in the Republican Party next year..after we win. Treat NRA money like it came from David Duke. Declare them personna non grata. They made their bed, so make them sleep in it.
It only stands to reason that if we are going to toss the Washington Ruling Class out on its ear these next 25 months, Ruling Class NGO’s (non-governmental organizations for those of you at DailyKos) will have to go as well. Who knows, maybe some day we can turn our SKS’s on the mother ship, the UN.
One can dream and this is a time for dreaming….real dreams.
Moe Lane
Erick Erickson
Jeff Emanuel
Steve Maley
Caleb Howe
Dan Spencer
Naive question...
mikerazar (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 5:38PM EDT (link)Do the members of NRA get to vote for a Board of Directors or other controlling body. If so, there is an obvious strategy..
We have a nation to save, people.
actually it is a good question mikerazar
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 5:04AM EDT (link)make it a diary and you will have my recco.
To be eligible to vote for the NRA Directors, you must be a life member or have paid your membership fee for at least 5 consecutive years.
So, anyone who quits certainly will have no say in who gets elected.
Molon Labe!
btw, about 7 percent of NRA members
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 5:07AM EDT (link)cast ballots each election.
Molon Labe!
Then get on your knees and pray that the dreams don't become real physical nightmares.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 5:39PM EDT (link)……..plus work towards those dreams occurring as peacefully and rapidly as possible.
On that note, I won’t add anything else, because it’s the real hot button for me.
You know….. “it”.
Why don't you go take over the ACLU?
Tbone (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 5:58PM EDT (link)It only has about 20,000 members.
This NRA Derangement Syndrome is fascinating.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Ah, Like Clockwork. (nt)
IJB Friday, October 8th at 9:07PM EDT (link)And just as exact. nt
Tbone (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 10:27PM EDT (link)Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
As a clock that's been broken for at least 50 years. nt
mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 10:58PM EDT (link)That still makes me right
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:05AM EDT (link)two more times a day than you.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Not being a "joiner", VB had me with the title. I prefer only to be a member of
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 9:13PM EDT (link)my law firm, church, GOP precinct and occasional pre-divorces, ie marriages that turn into welfare programs for ex-wives. Kiwanis got too time-consuming…
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
You must be very wise, Tbone
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 7:53AM EDT (link)to know what is in the hearts of other men.
I’d love to run the ACLU, btw. I’d pass trem all over to religion-litmus test.
If you do the math
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:07AM EDT (link)at # of members and annual dues, it wouldn’t be hard to do.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
We should do it
aesthete (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 11:34AM EDT (link)The ACLU’s defense of the Bill of Rights (-2nd) is actually quite admirable from a conservative perspective, and if we could just “federalize” the institution (i.e., make them see the federal govt’s powers as limited and have them defend their state constitutions, as well), we’d have a decent organization right there.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
I don't know much about the ACLU
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 11:42AM EDT (link)I only hear of them when they are attacking American values. But it seems to me they are just a self-described victims rights organization, aligned with Sharpton and Jesse jackson. These are the people that give liberty a bad name. Their idea of liberty is liberating productive people from their money. IMHO.
Molon Labe!
I thought the same way
aesthete (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:05PM EDT (link)until a homeschooled friend of mine informed me that they were actually pretty decent on various issues, and showed me several of the cases they were helpful on. They’re very, very good on homeschooling rights, the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, and the rest (and have involved themselves on the side of the parent in many of the custudy cases where the CPA abuses its authority). They famously defended the right of assembly of Nazis marching in Skokie, IL, and are very good on Bill of Rights issues. IMO, they tend to jump the gun on religion/establishment clause issues, but not to the extent that their critics allege. Their biggest problem, IMO (besides their ridiculous views on the 2nd Amendment and liberal views on the 14th), is that they see the Bill of Rights/rest of the amendments as being the only limitations on the federal government, when the federal government is actually constrained in that its only legitimate aims and actions are demarcated by the Constitution. They are definitely liberal, but do more good than harm in their narrow purpose of protecting the Bill of Rights as is. Imagine how formidable an organization they would be if more right-wingers populated it! (At any rate, there should definitely be some org on the right dedicated to protecting our Constitutional rights, as pols, even right wing pols, are the least likely of all to proctect our rights.)
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
You really have to be kidding aesthete
Scope (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 6:34PM EDT (link)That the ACLU has “done more good than harm.” You base your arguments on a “homeschooled” friend you had discussions with?
Please cite the cases which you refer to in your comment where they have been more benefical than harmful to the rights, freedoms and liberties of the American citizens. Please also include the case citations where they have been anti-American.
You present your case, based on some discussions you have had with a “friend.” No links, no proof, no anything but your opinion. I was under the impression that when one had credibility here, they cited something other than their opinions.
Some would like to consider the ACLU as a once good cause gone bad. The ACLU was formed by a Communist back in the 1920′s, by Roger Baldwin. A direct quote from Baldwin- “I am for socialism, disarmament, and, ultimately for abolishing the state itself. I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and, the sole control of those that produce wealth. Communism is the goal.” They have not changed since their founding. I would argue that the ACLU has only stepped up their goals. Yet, you somehow find “honor” in their goals. I’d say you are becoming more and more clear with your ultimate goals here aesthete.
Please cite the cases that the ACLU has brought, fought and won, where you believe they are a credible “civil rights” defender.
Yes Scope, you've found me out
aesthete (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 8:39PM EDT (link)Clearly, my 3+ years on RS can lead only to the inescapable conclusion that I’m some sort of closet communist, because I don’t think that the ACLU is a tool of Satan. I’ll be charitable by avoiding the obvious reference to neurosis here.
The ACLU has gotten much better since its founding, IMO, and has involved itself in several cases where their goals and those of conservatives align. They opposed McCain-Feingold for the same reasons that conservatives did (restriction on First Amendment rights). The ACLU defended Ollie North in his trial due to his conviction being tainted by coerced testimony. Washington State’s ACLU fought a library district in Washington which attempted to block pro-gun sites from loading in their browsers. They argued that Rush Limbaugh’s right to privacy was violated when law enforcement examined his medical records. Here’s a link with court cases that had ACLU input. For an organization overwhelmingly made up of liberals, I think that’s a stellar record (though I’m sure you’ll focus on the aspects that will most make me look like a radical malcontent who doesn’t care about America). You’ll certainly find nothing similar in the records of the SEIU or the NAU, all of whose opinions and goals are unreservedly statist.
My main problems with the ACLU (and the reasons I don’t support them with my time or money) are that it supports abortion “rights”, that it supports the liberal interpretation of the 14th, that it stays silent on 2nd Amendment issues, and that its position on government action is that if an action by the federal government is not banned by Amendments/Constitution, it is permissible under the same. Conservatives should try to take it over: its stated goals aren’t inimical to conservative values, nor is it such a wholly repellent organization as to merit the same scorn as, say, NAMBLA or the Communist party might recieve.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
I agree we need a conservative organization
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 11:14PM EDT (link)that works as hard as the ACLU. BTW, I don’t have proof, but it seems to me the ACLU only defends the most extreme “rightists” and they do that only sparingly. My guess is they do it to embarrass conservatives and for the ability to claim to be non partisan. I
Molon Labe!
Two things I've learned Tbone
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 12:49PM EDT (link)1) you clearly don’t like what I’ve written, and 2) you probably can’t read clear English. So far you’ve established with me that you’re either part of an inside joke I don’t know anything about, or that you’re as shallow as the proverbial pool of warm pee.
Why don’t you take two paragraphs and tell me what you are for and not what you think I’m against. (I’ve already gotten bets down that you can’t do this simple task.)
You win your bet, it took more than two.
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 4:00PM EDT (link)I am for the Freedoms and Liberties that steeled the will of those brave men who faced the Red Line on Lexington Green. I’m for the Freedoms and Liberties that have been bought and paid for by every drop of blood that they bled that day and every drop that has been bled to secure and preserve those Freedoms and Liberties ever since.
I am for the Freedoms and Liberties that compelled our Founding Fathers to reluctantly become traitors to their King by claiming allegiance to their God and to the inalienable rights deserved by every man. Those very Freedoms and Liberties for which they were willing to sacrifice not only their livelihoods but their lives.
I am for the Freedoms and Liberties that this great Country has bestowed around the World, gifted by the courage of countless young Americans who have had to face the fear of the eminent battle and endure the smell of ultimate sacrifice. The total wealth of this country is insufficient treasure to compensate for the lost years of living which so many of my fellow Americans have forgone.
I’m for the Freedoms and Liberties which have been enumerated in the governing documents of this, the world’s greatest Nation.
Finally, I am for every American who will stand with me in preserving these Freedoms and Liberties because those who have gone before us deserve no less and so those who will follow must be willing to say the same about us.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Then, Tbone, do you not see that the NRA is only endorsing one of those liberties?
janis (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 4:34PM EDT (link)And what a surprise, the only one that makes them any money. No one could disagree with your paragraphs, no matter whether it’s two or five. But you didn’t specify, I think, what was important.
And that’s whether or not you put as much importance on the other rights as you do on the second. If you do, then surely you must understand the outrage at seeing the NRA use the dues of members to endorse candidates who are directly antithetical to most of those rights.
Janis, Vassar asked what I was for.
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 7:34PM EDT (link)I understood that was a request for my core beliefs as opposed to my favorite NFL team. I have opinions, which are different than beliefs, about how to support those beliefs. By example, while not always satisfactory, supporting and voting Republican is the far better of the two political alternatives.
Likewise, while not always satisfactory, the NRA is able to do things in support of gun rights no other organization can do.
Also by example, I abhor the concept and practice of abortion. However, when my Republican Party controlled Congress and the White House I saw no repeal of Roe v Wade passed. Yet, I can’t advocate people abandon the Republican Party just because it disappointed me in that regard.
Political parties, political advocacy groups and we as individuals have to deal with political realities. As such, I voted for John McCain, I support the Republican Party despite its institutional inability to stand up for the unborn and I appreciate the efforts of the NRA though I despise the Democrats it felt compelled to endorse.
I don’t think those opinions make me a bad person deserving to be vilified, do you?
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Ohhh look. It's a pool of
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 4:43PM EDT (link)warm pee. And a shallow one at that. All rhetoric that could have come from Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi.
Shallow? Don't fall in, it's over your head.
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 7:07PM EDT (link)Ya know Michael, I just feel sorry for you. Just look at what you have become.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Actually TBone you didn't answer his questions
Michael Dugas (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 12:48AM EDT (link)You made broad statements about standing up for a broad base of beliefs based on historical events. You didn’t actually do what he asked you to do which was respond pro or con to what he wrote.
Is there anything say that Planned Parenthood does ok that will let you overlook the abortions they promote? You are willing to overlook the bad choices of the NRA for their support of the 2nd Amendment but not the ACLU which you denounce wholeheartedly regardless of what ever occasional good they might do. Does that sound logical too you?
A group that is willing to try and protect one constitutional amendment at the sake of the others and probably against the will of most of its members doesn’t deserve our support.
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
Sorry, tbone, see you after the war
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 7:57AM EDT (link)Smugness and insipidity look bad enough alongside one another, but when you throw in the vain repetitious cant of a 1930s Jim Crow Dixiecrat, Col Foghorn Leghorn, all wrapped up in the flag, it’s a bit over the top.
Surely you could have reached down and drawn a straight line between your ascerbic catcalls and your bedrock beliefs for a sentence or two, at least.
You seem to be comic relief to a few others here, so i’ll leave you to them. But leave you, I will. We’ll take this subject up again in Nov-Dec, on a more philosophical, less political plain. I’m sure there is some sort of remedial class you can take in the meantime so you can ‘splain yourself more better. (sic)
Thank you for this insight into your character.
Tbone (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 5:12PM EDT (link)I will make note of it.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
So well written. I envy your talent. nt
chbroussard (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 5:59PM EDT (link)You're so kind, chbroussard,
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 7:38PM EDT (link)but no talent, really. I’m old, I.ve just been around.
You know Vassar maybe it would actually be a good idea
Michael Dugas (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 12:58AM EDT (link)to try and mount a campaign to contact as many NRA lifetime mebers as possible. Hit them with the information on the NRA’s actions and try and increase that 7% membership vote for leadership to a much higher level. Kind of a NRA grassroots movement to oust the worthless leadership they have in a similar fashion as to whats happening with the current election cycle. I wonder how hard it would be to get the NRA membership list.
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
Good idea, Michael.
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 8:01AM EDT (link)That takes money and a little organization, and right now everyone has his hand out. The best people to do that in the near future would be the NRA’s competition, or other gun-rights group. I think it’s an easy takedown. All I’ve tried to do here is lay out the basic premise.
Few Americans are really one-issue constitutionalists (guns, abortion, etc) if you actually set them down and show them what they are cutting out and how all rights are co-dependent. Horse sense.
Another Gun Rights group is NAGR...
remnant60 (Diary) Thursday, October 14th at 4:16PM EDT (link)And yes they have their hands out…but I would have you look at what they have to offer…(from an email I just received)
Dudley told me to draft up the Nevada mail and email portion of our State Targeted Education Program. Please click here to see what we’ll be sending to Nevadan gun owners.
As of now, NAGR members like you have raised enough money to launch our Targeted Email to tens of thousands self-identified pro-gun Nevadans AND send similar emails to even more pro-gun Alaskans, Kentuckians, and Coloradans.
But as of now we barely have enough to send the Slick Mailer to a only small number of Nevada gun owners.
Unless NAGR supporters like you dig deep and contribute as generously as possible, NAGR won’t have the funds for a similar mail piece in any of the other states and certainly not enough for radio and TV ads.
As you can see, it is critical NAGR receive your help if we’re going to be able to move forward with ALL of our plans.
So, will you chip in just $10, $20 or $30 TODAY?
If you haven’t already, please read Dudley’s email below to see why your help is so important.
Thanks!
Luke O’Dell
Director of Operations
National Association for Gun Rights
**…and whoever has none, let him sell his cloak and a buy a sword. – Luke 22:36**
From: Dudley Brown [mailto:Dudley.Brown@nationalgunrights.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2010 2:13 PM
Subject: Expose enemies and defend friends
Dear Bill,
I hope this email makes it safely to your inbox…
The election is barely three weeks away, and the National Association for Gun Rights’ 2010 State Targeted Education Program bank account is nearly drained.
I need your help.
You see, I’ve drafted up a detailed plan to expose anti-gun public officials who’ve sold out, and to defend pro-gun Americans who take a stand for the Second Amendment.
It includes direct mail, email, phone calls, postcards, internet banner ads, and — if we can raise enough money — even radio and TV ads.
But right now I don’t have the funds to do even a third of it.
The last few months have been trying times for gun rights. I’m sure you’ve noticed as well.
First, Michael Bloomberg and Sarah Brady launched a massive media blitz in an attempt to ram through a ban on private gun sales.
But NAGR Members like you rallied to the cause and raised over $90,000 to launch our Internet Blast for Private Sales.
With the cash in hand, NAGR flooded the web with banner ads and dedicated emails in 10 different states targeting fence-sitting Senators critical to defeating this bill.
And YOU defeated it. In fact, the campaign you helped NAGR launch was so successful anti-gunners in Congress couldn’t even bring the bill up for a vote.
But it took every cent NAGR supporters scraped together to hold their feet to the fire.
Then the Second Amendment was hit by another anti-gun assault when the Obama administration ordered the EPA to enforce an unconstitutional backdoor ban on “unsafe” ammunition!
NAGR mobilized and citizens like you clogged their offices with petitions showing we won’t stand for ANY of their gun control schemes.
And before the weekend was over, the gun-grabbers were running scared tail between legs.
But again, victory isn’t free and that battle cost NAGR precious resources.
Everything would have been fine, but just as I was preparing for our 2010 State Targeted Education Program operations, a new scheme was hatched to undermine our right to keep and bear arms.
Barack Obama’s unprecedented executive ban of nearly 1 million M1 Garand rifles is a blatant power grab that MUST be opposed.
I considered sitting out this fight in order to guarantee NAGR would have the funds needed for the next three weeks.
But I just couldn’t sit on the sidelines as Barack Obama and his anti-gun allies laughed it up as they destroyed yet another element of American history.
So NAGR mobilized and gun owners like you took action.
However, we have yet to win this battle and it is still draining NAGR’s account.
And considering the battle to make sure the UN Small Arms Treaty, H.R. 45, Eric Holder’s Citizen Disarmament Bill, the National Biometric ID card and the anti-free speech DISCLOSE Act NEVER become law…
I feel… like I’m paralyzed while election day keeps getting closer and closer… like I’m in the middle of a key battle in the war for freedom and I’ve just ran out of ammunition.
I’ve got some big guns… but my magazines are empty.
Will you help me reload?
You see, we have to remember the other side has troubles too. It’s a game of chicken and whoever gives up first loses.
And I will assure you right now, I’ll never give up.
I’ve developed a plan that will allow NAGR to keep up the fight on all these important issues AND run our State Targeted Education Program.
But I’ll need your help to do it. Are you ready?
The final two weeks are the most important time to take action.
I’ve calculated that in order to implement ALL of my plans in ALL of my targeted states I’ll need to raise $175,000 by next Friday, October 15th.
That’s…
$50,000 for Nevada to expose Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s long anti-gun record which he is desperate to keep hidden.
$50,000 for Kentucky to compare Rand Paul’s 100% commitment to the Second Amendment to his opponent’s refusal to answer our pro-gun survey.
$40,000 for Alaska to let the citizens know that Joe Miller is a solid gun rights supporter and encourage him to stand strong.
And $35,000 for Colorado where pro-gun Ken Buck is once again under attack for his stance in favor of gun rights by the anti-gun front group Campaign Money Watch.
Each of these states is critical.
You see, the biggest threat to our gun rights we’re going to face in the next two years is the UN Small Arms Treaty I’ve warned you about in the past.
In order for the Small Arms Treaty to pass, it must be ratified by the U.S. Senate.
So it’s absolutely CRITICAL citizens in these states know where their candidates stand on the Second Amendment.
And with YOUR help, we’ll make it happen.
But I also want to give you the opportunity to choose where your money will be spent. So when you contribute, you will also be able to select the state of your choice.
I’ve already got mail packages and entire emails written and ready for launch. And I’ve instructed my staff to draft up phone scripts, postcards, and hard-hitting radio and TV ads for the final week.
But I just don’t have the funds to push go yet.
So will you help make NAGR’s plans a reality and contribute to the state of your choice today?
Bill, you’ve taken action for the Second Amendment in the past. Thank you for that.
Will you increase your commitment at this critical time in American history by chipping in $10, $20, or even $30?
Whatever you do, please send as much as you can afford.
My plans are ready to launch, all I need is your support to make this happen.
It’s absolutely imperative citizens in all these states know where their candidates stand on the right to keep and bear arms.
So please, send your most generous contribution today!
For Freedom,
Dudley Brown
Executive Director
National Association for Gun Rights
P.S. With all the assaults on the Second Amendment you and I have faced in the past couple of months, NAGR’s bank account is drained.
I’ve got direct mail packages and entire emails written and ready for launch. And I’ve instructed my staff to draft up phone scripts and postcards.
But as of today, I don’t have the funds to do any of it.
Great post,Vassar. I've sent my cut up NRA Membership card
eburke (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 6:07PM EDT (link)along with a scathing letter requesting a refund of my dues.
In my District, they chose to endorse Tim Walz, MN-01, who, while palatable on the 2A, is to the left of Dennis Freaking Kucinich on the other 9 BoR amendments.
His opponent, Randy Demmer, had a 8 year track record in the MN legislature and also got an A rating. Faced with such facts, did the NRA choose to just not endorse? Hell no. They endorsed Tim Walz so that I can watch my hard earned dollars go to the slick little mailer I’m going to receive in about 2 weeks telling me what a great guy this union lackey socialist is.
There’s enuf work to be done in reclaiming the Republican Party. I don’t have time to resurrect yet another dinosauer gone bad. Screw ‘em. My membership in Gun Owners of America will start as soon as they receive my check.
“All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
Unified Patriots
We need to convince everyone that's conservative and libertarian to leave the NRA and join the GOA instead
Finrod (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 3:47AM EDT (link)Hit ‘em where it hurts: membership. We have a great alternative, just like GOProud is a great replacement for the Log Cabin Republicans.
PETA and the ASPCA are pure evil. See here and here.
Vassar: I've dealt with the #NRA, trying to get candidates endorsed..
ladyimpactohio (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 6:37PM EDT (link)This is there official policy:
NRA WILL NOT endorse anyone without a voting record. I was trying to get a former Toledo police chief who was running for US House endorsed. Even though he CAPPED a serial killer in Toledo with one shot to the forehead they REFUSED to endorse because of no voting record. NRA HAS however, endorsed Strickland in OH. To Strickland’s credit he did pass a Castle Law here which is not bad but still needs some work. They REFUSED to endorse Kasich because of his record with Clinton’s assault ban. Kasich has come out in favor now of 2nd amendment, has done a “vid” with a couple of weapons in his hands at a town hall but am not convinced he has changed his mind.
We the people tell government what to do, it does not tell us.–Ronald Reagan in his farewell speech
A policy of convenience, LIO
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 7:35PM EDT (link)They can always not endorse at all. naw, the fix is in.
Better no endorsement than a Democrat
strikeeagle (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 8:53PM EDT (link)Every single Democrat should be put on probation and assumed guilty until proven innocent. They were lemming-like in their obedience to Pelosi and Reid regarding Stimulus, Cap & Trade, Obamacare. Stupak stabbed the Pro-lifers in the back…gun owners will get the shiv as well and if the NRA can’t see that, it can only be because they are sharing the same ruling class bed.
Vassar, not saying they "can't." It's they "won't" -nt-
ladyimpactohio (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:11AM EDT (link)We the people tell government what to do, it does not tell us.–Ronald Reagan in his farewell speech
Is Chris Cox, the current lobbyist for the NRA
Scope (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 8:21PM EDT (link)the same Chris Cox that was appointed as SEC chair by W?
If he is, you can easily link him back to “short selling” on the world wide web. You can also link him to Soros type activities.
Lots of stories about the NRA being infiltrated. It may actually be true. Is there more than one Chris Cox?
Yes...
ffc99 Friday, October 8th at 8:34PM EDT (link)there is more than one Chris Cox. In fact, there are probably thousands. And to answer your first question, nope the NRA Chris Cox is different from the former conservative Republican Congressman from California/Chair of the SEC.
No. There is more than one CC
Tbone (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 8:36PM EDT (link)and the one at the NRA is one of the sharpist lobbyists in the game.
“Lots of stories about the NRA being infiltrated.”
As Achance would say “You just don’t understand how the NRA works.”
LOL.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Except that in Art's case...
mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 10:59PM EDT (link)when he said it, he was right.
That's where Art and I often parted company.
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 7:57AM EDT (link)Although I’m interested in how a thing works, in the analytical sense I’m only interested in “what works”. As currently constituted, when the entire Constitution is under assault the NRA no longer works
NRA, AARP, NOW. Don't forget AMA.
usadying (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 8:22PM EDT (link)“You see, like the NRA, the AARP, even if 60% of their members leave, they can still remain the “official” spokes-organ of seniors, just as NOW still is for women even though their membership wouldn’t fill out a good bridge tournament.”
Most physicians have torn up their AMA cards. I also find it fascinating that NOW endorsed Jerry Brown after his “whore” remark. If the tables were turned and Brown was the Republican candidate, NOW would have been screaming for weeks. I guess NOW only supports women who are left of Marx. No wonder Palin and we conservative women frighten them so much.
Yeah, but that's because we actually own guns,
knitwit (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 8:42PM EDT (link)know how to use them, and practice with them regularly. They have to wonder if they are on Mama Grizzly’s menu…lol
“I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country”–Nathan Hale
Compromise: The art of giving to your enemy that which he is not powerful enough to take.
you go too far sir!
Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 9:19PM EDT (link)I agree that LaPierre and Chris Cox are poor representatives of their member’s views. I agree there should be a campaign to get them tossed out. I even understand those who will decide to cancel their memberships, or more likely, just not pay dues this year.
But, when you start comparing the NRA to David Duke and George Soros. When you say we need to go to war with the NRA, when you compare the NRA to left wing organizations such as NOW and yes, AARP, you GO TOO FAR!!
The NRA is pissing a lot of people off for sure. But if there were no NRA we would probably not even have a 2A anymore. The NRA and better led gun organizations local and national have had a lot of success over the decades. In fact, Americans are much more positive towards gun ownership and carry than they ever were in the 90s, 80, 70, 60s etc. The NRA and its members played a role in that.
It is one thing to reform an organization. It is one thing to call out a wrong and try to fix it. It is one thing to leave a group you don’t care for. But if you and RS go to war with the NRA, I will be on the other side.
One last thing, no one is pleased more than Pelosi, Obama, Bloomber, and Boxer when someone quits the NRA. In politics and in war, it is usually better to do things that do NOT improve your enemies morale.
Molon Labe!
I have posted on this issue many times before
Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 9:44PM EDT (link)and have gone after Chris Cox harder than anyone here other than Erick. I have offered that the NRA should put an asterisk by EVERY Democrat endorsement stating the risk of keeping Demonrat control of the House and Senate. I have also said the NRA has made a bunch of really stupid endorsements this year. I also said people should withhold giving to the NRA-ILA. In came not to praise the NRA’s leadership I came to damn them!
But in the end, this is a job for NRA members. We need to fix the problem from the inside. We need to give non dues money to other, less compromises gun rights organizations. I can offer several options to anyone interested.
Here is another idea, we should get a bunch of members together and place a major ad against the NRA’s position today, a position which would let Pelosi keep her job.
Yet in the end, we would be foolish to attempt to dismantle our most effective rights organization. Certainly we would have to build a new one up before it would ever be sound to tear the one we have down.
Molon Labe!
555
tcgeol (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 10:30PM EDT (link)I agree entirely, Doc. The NRA needs work, but it will not happen if we abandon it.
While I generally admire Vassar’s writing, he is dead wrong on this one. The NRA is, by definition, a one-issue organization. If a Democrat votes correctly, or at least avoids voting wrongly, then the NRA should endorse him unless the opponent is equal or better. I don’t like that, but that is the way that such an organization has to run.
Just your typical bitter gun- and God-clinger
Even the Left admits we’re Right
Both you guys know how much I like you.
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 8:05AM EDT (link)I’m all for you fellows in particular fixing it from within, but as far as I’m concerned, you have a very short period of time to do it.
My proposition is simple and easy to understand; when you abandon the other provisions of the Bill of Rights just to protect one, and make common cause with those who have openly professed to destroy the entire document in exchange for a system more suited to their purposes…you are either stupid (criminally so), secretly one of them, or bought off. In any case, the holders to that belief are my declared enemies. On that I don;t have time to quibble.
My premise is simple. If you can tell me where the Republic and Constitutional design are protected by anything the NRA is doing now, continue this thread. I’ll be happy to read it.
simple, the 2A protects all others
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 9:07AM EDT (link)if there were no 2A, all the other unalienable rights would be gone forthwith. One other thing, lets look at the actual NRA endorsements this election by party.
US Senate:
23 Republicans
2 Democrats
US House:
197 Republicans
61 Democrats
Governor:
19 Republicans
3 Democrats
Lt. Gov:
9 Republicans
2 Democrats
AGs:
14 Republicans
6 Democrats
State Senate:
509 Republicans
143 Democrats
State House:
1916 Republicans
588 Democrats
that came from an anti at Politico trying to show the NRA is NOT bipartisan.
anyway, it seems you are actually mad that the other amendments don’t have their equivalent of the NRA. Should the NRA branch out? Should there be an NRA for the 1st Amendment? Should the NRA start a caucus for not quartering troops in people’s homes?
I have said my case, I have walked the walk questioning the NRA AND offering ideas to make this situation better. I still think your diary and subsequent posts are not helpful. You may not know this, but there are many websites that focus solely on these issues and have thousands that are trying to change things at the NRA.
Molon Labe!
I believe the euphemistic term is "final veto", no? [nt]
acat (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 9:21AM EDT (link)——
Caveat Suffragator
Still not getting my point, Doc
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 9:59AM EDT (link)There’s not an anti- or even wishy-washy 2A person here. But by elevating the 2nd above the others, you do seem to eb getting into triage-ville, which is thin ice for me, indeed
Well I do elevate it above all others
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 11:02AM EDT (link)for the reason I explained. Yet I have been consistent here for 5 years, I cherish the Constitution and always support maximum freedom and minimum government. I think all of our rights have been infringed upon, our government is in no way similar to what the Founder’s envisioned.
Molon Labe!
Personally, I think that's your fallacy, Doc
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:14PM EDT (link)I plan to write a followup after the election, as this piece only pertains to NRA support of left-soft Dems, re this election.
But I think your mistake is 1) in elevating the 2A above the others and 2) treating the 2A as if it were a piece of paper.
To me the 2nd is merely a notion on a piece of paper which reflects a natural right that is written on the stars. Burn the paper, the right remains. Burn the paper and 100 million guns don’t suddenly disappear. The cosmic right is in intact. The problem ANY bureaucratic organization, especially one with the longevity of the NRA is to remember the cosmic right vs the paper right. Etched on the stars are several human rights that are co-equal. Period. The day you reduced them to paper then begin even thinking of swapping one for the other, as triage, it’s lost. The NRA is there now. I think you need to go back to your closet and think all this over, as it really is simple once you reduce everything to its most simple equation.
We’ll visit it again in November after we get rid of those socialist scalawags the NRA is supporting.
Cheers
Not to stand in for Doc
aesthete (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:31PM EDT (link)but I think that what he means to say is that the 2nd (or rather, the right to self-defense) is the right on which all others depend, as there is little that one can do to protect the others (1; 3-8, and the ones left unsung in 9-10) without having something to defend them with! Metaphysical concepts won’t enforce themselves, and arms are one of the few means by which we can make the “moral arc of the universe” shorter and more immediate to those who would violate our rights. As Heinlein said in one of his works of fiction, “an armed society is a polite society”. All of the rights are co-equal, and I certainly agree with you regarding the problems with the NRA, but without enforcement of rights, one is left only with the knowledge that rights are or are not being violated, and not a means by which to secure those rights. In that sense, the 2nd can be said to be foundational in a way that the others are not: the other rights can be regained through use of the 2nd. The 1st is the only other right that can be said to have this power, and even so, this power is limited by the extent to which the other party is swayed by ideas and reason.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Not to stand in for Vassar
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:46PM EDT (link)but I think what he means to say is that not only are our rights co-equal, their co-dependent. With that in mind, the NRA does the 2nd a disservice by endorsing someone who would undercut the other rights.
By allowing the other rights to be whittled away for the sake of “preserving” the 2nd we end up creating a situation where using the 2nd becomes more probable. Considering the times we are living in, I don’t think we want to go that direction.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
Bravissimo, Aaron
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:31PM EDT (link)For me, the nitpicking of this issue begins Nov 3. I had a more narrow purpose here.
But if you are going to look these rights as natural rights, which I do, they have to be co-equal. The “fact” of the right to bears arms, almost 225 years now, is now a fait accompli. Tearing up that piece of paper won’t change that.
Good to hear from you.
Trying to reverse a natural right is akin to tilting at windmills.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:34PM EDT (link)No matter what the piece of paper says we find these truths to be self evident.
If the need arises we can always put it back on paper when the smoke clears.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
That has always been my thinking, Aaron
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 3:16PM EDT (link)VB
Excellent summary Aaron, IMO... nt
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 3:22PM EDT (link)you have it exactly right aesthete, they are just not listening
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:21PM EDT (link)I agree the focus of the thread has meandered as I think we all have problems with what the NRA is doing. Yet, the idea that the right to self defense protects all others is true. Hell if it were not for men with guns, we would not have had a nation that recognized these unalienable rights.
Ask Vassar why the metaphysical rights don’t seem to reach most people in this world? Ask him why the specific metaphysical right to keep and bear arms flying threw the Cosmos just flew away from Canada, Australia, and the UK? I wonder if they wished they had put that God given right down on paper?
Molon Labe!
5555555555 - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:30PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
I am not elevating anything Vassar
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:45PM EDT (link)and this “piece of paper” argument is a straw man. Maybe I was loose in my terminology somewhere, but when I say the 2A protects all others, I mean the right to self defense. For a man who has no right to protect himself has no right to protect his freedoms.
I have never said nor thought that any of our rights are less than any other right. I have consistently argued that the government has infringed on all our Constitutional rights. But all this has been said before and we are getting nowhere.
My initial, and only problem with your diary was stated in my first response to the diary. The problem is that you just went too far. You called for the end of the NRA. That tells me you either don’t know much about the good the NRA does or you don’t care if that good work goes away.
You directly implied that the NRA is being paid off. You said “the fix is in”. I say you are going too far. I think the NRA just has a couple squishes at the top, or possibly just two guys who think they are smarter than they are.
We are a few weeks from a pivotal election. I want nothing more than to send Pelosi and Reid packing. If you want to spend your time trying to destroy the NRA (you won’t), then go when you better go back to YOUR closet and come up with a damn good plan.
Molon Labe!
the right to self defense is fundamental - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:48PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
right GC
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 11:30PM EDT (link)and that is why the statists took that right away in the UK, Australia, and Canada. They knew they had to take that right away first. See, those countries still have the freedom of dissent, assembly, etc. The key was taking away the guns, and more importantly, the dehumanizing effect of said action.
Molon Labe!
totally agree Doc - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 12:07AM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
GC, I see you're the proud papa of a brand spanking new
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 8:15AM EDT (link)#1 scalp. Congrats!
Vassar, we really are on the same side
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:55PM EDT (link)I just took exception to some of the things you implied about the NRA. I did not like the idea of going to war with our most powerful lobby.
I have said much of the things you have said in this post at other times lol. For example, I argued that I could never support Huckabee because he does not cherish all freedoms. I said I don’t value his support of the 2A right because he does not cherish all the rights. He is a statist who happens to like guns. I only support leaders who believe in small government and maximum freedom. And by “maximum freedom” I am specifically referring to those God given rights laid out in the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence.
Molon Labe!
let me try one last time to be clear Vassar
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 12:12AM EDT (link)I know you support the 2A. I know you are angry a the NRA leadership because they made some poor decisions. I know you are very worried about Democrats retaining power. I know you want to punish the NRA somehow.
You know what? I agree with you all of this, this is exactly how I feel about it! The more I read your diary, the more I like it, (don’t tell anyone). My complaints are just with a few lines, a few ideas. We can’t afford to lose the entire NRA organization, the NRA members do too much good. We can give political money to other 2A organizations, I fully support that.
I don’t think our candidates should deny NRA money, that just doesn’t make a lot of sense. On the other hand, a personal slam at La Pierre and Chris Cox would be a good idea. How about newly minted speaker Boener meeting with the GOA, Second Amendment Sisters, Jews for Preservation of Firearm Ownership, National Shooting Sports Foundation and even the Pink Pistols before meeting with the NRA?
Molon Labe!
but here is a fair MSM article that gives a little perspective
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 12:34AM EDT (link)http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Election-2010/House/2010/1008/Why-the-NRA-is-rallying-behind-endangered-Democrats
See the danger of the NRA only supporting Republicans is that Repbulicans lose elections now and then, in fact they sometimes suffer crushing defeats ie 2006,2008. Yet, if pro gun Democrats did not stop Pelosi and Holder from trying to ban so called assault weapons again, they would be banned as I type. See, Republicans have a tendency to fail to see the big picture too. They are not always the party being wronged, sometimes they are the ones doing the wronging.
yet again, and for the last time
I will state the NRA acted foolishly this election cycle. They made several bad endorsements and they endorsed when they should of just shut up.
Molon Labe!
No, 2A does *not* protect all the others
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 4:03PM EDT (link)It is a web of protection that REQUIRES multiple parts. They protect each other.
It is true that once they take away guns, they can take away speech. But that’s not the only truth here. The freedom of speech ALSO protects the right to bear arms.
If the Democrats manage to sharply curtail dissent by grabbing control of the internet, torpedo talk radio by the so-called “Fairness” Doctrine, and of course they’ve owned the press for decades, how is our right to carry arms gonna stop that? We gonna storm Washington?
About 2 days after they control the dialog, they start curtailing gun rights.
Once dissent is gone, then if the FEC institutionalizes voter fraud (like the New Black Panthers in Phillie, and like SEIU does daily), how are your gun rights going to stop that? They will vote themselves into a dictatorship.
How are we going to organize a serious resistance if we can only speak dissent in hushed tones? With freedom of association gone, how can we overthrow them?
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
EPU- 55555
Scope (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 4:47PM EDT (link)Best argument I’ve read yet. “What are we going to do, storm Washington.”
wow, you guys are really worked up
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:27PM EDT (link)You would think the Republicans are going to get creamed this election. You guys also give the NRA too much credit. Hell, by endorsing Democrats in numbers that would give Pelosi her job back, they are only diminishing the power of their endorsements. NRA members are not stupid you know, even if the leadership is. IN fact, I think the NRA is playing games here, I doubt they will put too much money behind some to the Dems they have endorsed.
Molon Labe!
They can't end dissent with the fairness doctrine
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 11:02PM EDT (link)they can only make it more difficult. Has not the right to keep and bear arms been made more difficult thousands of times by our government? Are there not tens of thousands of redundant and foolish laws on the books?
Gun rights organizations protect gun rights. Since these organizations are lead by men, they also make mistakes. But in the end, we can’t force all are freaking problems with big government onto the back of one gun rights organization. It is OUR job to win the political debate, it is OUR job to take our country back.
I think some of you are expecting just too much from one organization. Hmm, what does that remind me of? The other side expects a certain organization to take care of everything too. That organization is called the government of the United States.
Molon Labe!
Expecting too much out of one organization
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 2:24AM EDT (link)I’m just expecting them to operate for their own benefit. And they are not doing so.
Doc, the overwhelming thing going on this election cycle is that Americans have had it up to their whatzis with judges, presidents, Congressmen. and organizations that claim to serve the Constitution but in fact do not.
Stand in our way, get jacked up. That’s the message, it’s no more complicated than that. The NRA this cycle is actively undermining conservative candidates. I don’t care what their rationale is. They’re across the line and we’re shooting live ammo at whoever is over there.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
I am against their politics this season
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 2:41AM EDT (link)I just don’t want the entire organization brought down. If we lost them, the statists would seize the initiative.
Molon Labe!
Doc, I always knew where you stood
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 8:14AM EDT (link)…shoulder to shoulder with me. i just wanted you to see the 2A as the NRA sees it, and as it is written on the stars. They, the corporation) see it as a piece of paper, to be bartered and sold. Sorry, nothing you can say can escape the fact they have endorsed a bunch of men who are foresworn to destroy the Constitution…the whole shooting match, not just 9 of the 10.
I won’t speak of this again until after the election. I don’t give a hoot in hell about the NRA or any gun rights organization. What I do care about is that right itself…alongside all the others. Sorry I can’t square that circle as you’ve described it. You want to fix it from within, fix it.
But i do know the hearts of corporate Man, and they need to go…all the way to Dante’s 7th circle if possible.
The fly in the buttermilk is the NRA has endorsed men who would take away all my rights. How you square that is not my concern.
See you in November.
tcgeol, how to explain the NRA endorsing an incumbent Dem....
penguin2 (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 6:04PM EDT (link)against a Republican challenger. I live in a conservative leaning district VA-02, heavily military, both active and retired – biggest naval base in the world. The NRA just endorsed incumbent Nye, who received a pass from Pelosi on several votes, including the HC bill. He makes all the right noises, introduced legislation like you mentioned and you think that is all that is necessary? Hard to believe you think that justifies an endorsement over the challenger.
Those endorsements from the NRA are part and parcel of someone scratching someone’s back, and expecting something in return. What the NRA is going to receive in return, is going to be the continued battle against them., from the progressive socialist/Dems. Do they perhaps make money on the constant barrage of court cases filed against gun ownership, whether it is the individual or taking a city or state Back to court to get them to obey what the Supreme has already ruled on.? Staying in business on litigious grounds is a poor reason for existence.
I see that every vote given to a Democrat, strictly on a special/single issue, makes them a Democrat. Maybe that works for libertarians and independents, but not for Republicans. We hold to the Constitution and the first ten Amendments, including the 2nd, cannot be seen as mutually exclusive, let alone as one is any more important than all of the others, or even one of the others. If they can dismantle the other nine, they can dismantle your one.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
Well stated, Madam
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 8:18AM EDT (link)You’re right, LadyP, your guy in VA-02 is getting the short end too. Maybe you should forward these comments over to their HQ to see if they can find some useful ammo here. An awful lot of good-one-liners, especially to rebut the NRA position. Aaron had some keepers, above.
We are in agreement in general
tcgeol (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 1:02PM EDT (link)but I don’t support the NRA because they protect the right to a trial by jury or the right to assemble peaceably, as important as those rights are. I support them because they support the right to keep and bear arms. For myself, I see a vote for any Democrat as a vote against the Constitution. However, an organization like the NRA does not have that same option, unless they want to be known as a nakedly partisan group which they are not and do not want to be.
There are many things about the NRA that I do not like or support. The leadership has not shown themselves to be effective or intelligent. I’m definitely not saying that they are a perfect organization or even that they make particularly good decisions. I guess the idea is that they cannot operate like we would like them to in a partisan manner because they aren’t that sort of group.
Just your typical bitter gun- and God-clinger
Even the Left admits we’re Right
They can be primarily a one issue organization
Michael Dugas (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 1:05AM EDT (link)But they show a huge lack of foresight and common sense if they think that by saying nothing to the weakening of the other amendments
and supporting people who vote to weaken them that they will themselves survive in the long run. For what good is the second amendment if it ends up all by itself and under the jackboot of the Lefties.
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
O’Sullivan’s First Law: All organizations that are not actually right-wing
Locke (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 10:12PM EDT (link)will over time become left-wing.
http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback-jos062603.asp
“I [O'Sullivan] cite as supporting evidence the ACLU, the Ford Foundation, and the Episcopal Church. The reason is, of course, that people who staff such bodies tend to be the sort who don’t like private profit, business, making money, the current organization of society, and, by extension, the Western world.”
This would seem to apply to a single-issue organization, even if that single issue is conservative.
So this is what happened to the Republican Party?
Tbone (Diary) Friday, October 8th at 10:31PM EDT (link)No wonder the NRA doesn’t want to be a just a shill for all Republicans.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Nobody wants the NRA to be a "shill for Republicans".
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 12:22AM EDT (link)Nobody. They should feel absolutely free to beat the daylights out of Mike Bloomberg and any other anti-gun, anti-2A “Republican”. All that the people who actually understand how Congress really works are asking the NRA is that they recognize that the votes that they think they’ve got from Democrats are every bit as transient as Bart Stupak’s “pro-life” votes. Supporting a Democrat does nothing more than hasten the certainty of anti-gun, anti-2A legislation and the elevation of judges who will find it somehow constitutional.
'becker, I want Arizona to win the PAC10...just saying as Braves - Giants tied in extra innings...nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 12:49AM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
I gotta tell you GC,
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:11AM EDT (link)your comment in this thread – and about the NRA in general – makes a whole lot more sense that anything Tbone has written.
His comment that he is not a joiner?
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:19AM EDT (link)I don’t think the 2A is really that big with GC, I glean that from four years arguing gun restrictions with him. I am not saying he is an “anti” but if he were a “joiner” I doubt the first group would be a gun rights organization.
btw, GC, your Braves were in big trouble, nice come back.
Molon Labe!
thx Doc re Braves comeback as I watch ESPN Gameday live from the USC Horseshoe in Columbia, but as to being
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:39AM EDT (link)a non-joiner…that applies to ALL aspects of life and not merely NRA related. Plus, while I have never owned a gun and don’t see the past assault weapons bans as quite as dire a threat as many…I still oppose the bans, cherish the right to bear arms as fundamental etc. I’m with ya.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
I hear ya GC
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 11:07AM EDT (link)nothing more needs to be said about it, you said your beliefs.
Molon Labe!
You want a comeback Did you see that Rays/Rangers game!
Michael Dugas (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 1:09AM EDT (link)Go Rays!
:End of thread-jack:
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
yeah they needed that
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 1:23AM EDT (link)the Rangers have a long legacy of futility, even when they have good teams. If they win a post season series, we might get locusts or frogs or something.
Molon Labe!
LOL @ Doc I'm hoping the Rays take the next game
Michael Dugas (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 1:31AM EDT (link)and bring it back to Tampa Bay. I have tickets for that 1 if they do. They are just an odd enough organization to do it. They have the craziest stats for a team that won the ALEast.
You from Fla Doc?
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
Well against the Rangers, they have a chance
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 2:38AM EDT (link)not from FL, from TX, that is why I know the Rays have a good chance lol.
Molon Labe!
They would to you
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:12AM EDT (link)as I sit here smiling at the thought of you having to vote for Palin in a couple of years. LOL
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
I may have to vote for Palin in the '12 general
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 3:18PM EDT (link)although I sincerely doubt it, but if I do, when the votes are counted I’ll be disappointed because we’ll be looking at four more years of TheWon.
Don’t bother responding, you’ve dumped enough stupidity in this thread.
You just don't understand how the NRA works.
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:17AM EDT (link)The NRA has been effectively fighting the 2A fight for decades. Where have you been all this time?
You guys show up now and rant about how the NRA doesn’t know what it’s doing. Your ignorance is laughable.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
(K) Hahahaahhahaha. nt
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:18AM EDT (link)Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Some of my best laughs have been at my own jokes too! - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:39AM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Not important to know how the NRA works,
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 8:22AM EDT (link)unless you want to disassemble it and work on it. We’re in a war, for god’s sake. All we want the jeep to do is go straight, baling wire will do.
All I care about is what will work, and the NRA ain’t it. You been a good old wagon, but Daddy, you done broke down.
I understand how the NRA works.
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 3:15PM EDT (link)And the idea that they’ve been “fighting the 2A fight for decades” is simply meaningless tripe.
The NCAAP effectively fought discrimination for decades.
The ACLU effectively for individual liberty for decades.
Just to name two. They both lost their way and became shills to be used by the Left. The NRA appears to be on the same track.
Pro-Life groups were headed down that same track until Bart Stupak succeeded in showing them the error of their ways. Thankfully, they seem to be on track to wising up.
You may “think” we’re ignorant of the NRA, but by your commentary, you continually reinforce the fact that you’re just plain stupid.
So beacuse they have been doing a good job in the past
Michael Dugas (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 1:12AM EDT (link)we should over look the horrible choices they are making now? How is that logical. And if you over look those stupid choices whats to dissuade them from continuing to make them?
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
and btw 'becker, perfectly stated - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:00PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
The same thing happened to the NRA, and the GOP, yes.
acat (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 9:03AM EDT (link)See above.
There’s nothing special here – the same thing happens in businesses, in school districts, in churches – the people in charge decide that they’d rather protect their interests instead of the interests of those the organization serves.
Mew
——
Caveat Suffragator
5555555555 - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:22PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Um, Tbone
Neil Stevens (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:18AM EDT (link)This site backs Republicans.
If you have a problem with backing Republicans, Go Away.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Um, Neil, I was donating money to and voting for Republicans
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 12:04PM EDT (link)before you were born and I have never voted for a Democrat. So, while it annoys you, I think I’ll stay around here as long as I want. Unless you unfairly exercise your Moderator button. But, I have great confidence you would never be that petty.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Trust me Tbone
Neil Stevens (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 12:14PM EDT (link)If you keep shilling for Democrat allies at NRA I will ban you and I’ll laugh at you if you try to whine like a little girl that it was unfair.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Give him an hour at least, Neil
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:03PM EDT (link)I did ask a question I hope he’ll answer. It’s research. Cheers
Yeah I'm not in a rush
Neil Stevens (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:23PM EDT (link)But Tbone genuinely seems to be too thick to understand that this isn’t the site to insult people for backing Republicans as a rule.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Gotcha. Another time perhaps.
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:26PM EDT (link)Probably watching football
Well, I guess I won't shill for the NRA anymore.
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 4:09PM EDT (link)As for me whining about anyone being unfair, not my style. Everyone has to be able to justify their actions to themselves. As for you, I already stated that I have great confidence that your self respect wouldn’t allow you to be petty or unfair.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Given that you do it so poorly I doubt they'll mind. nt
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 4:11PM EDT (link)seriously rare steak, not even for a state or local office? - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:45PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
At what level are elected Democrats not complicit in mass infanticide? (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:46PM EDT (link)RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Neil, you don't know how much I admire you for that! Amen bro, to be a "D' is to
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:53PM EDT (link)at some level give support to their agenda, incl that. And you know I am a party man big time. But, most folks have not been pure their whole lives and esp on the local and state level, hence the question. Of course I had only voted R one time before my 2000 epiphany. No D votes since, but I could see an isolated such vote for state house or lower…never will vote for a D to DC.
We are on the same page brother. I remember the days when you weren’t on this page and I was!
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
As best I can remember...
qixlqatl (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 1:58PM EDT (link)I’ve never voted for a D either. Our local county offices never had an R on the ballot when I was younger…you got one choice (the D), so I would just leave ‘em blank.
“Yet, Freedom! yet thy banner, torn, but flying,
Streams like the thunderstorm against the wind.”
George Gordon Noel Byron
I admire the wisdom of you GOP lifers that didn't need a reality-mugging to get wise - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:03PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Not sure it was 'wisdom'
qixlqatl (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:31PM EDT (link)back then, GC. I was first eligible to vote in ’86, and RR was pretty popular then…I was also in the Navy at the time.
“Yet, Freedom! yet thy banner, torn, but flying,
Streams like the thunderstorm against the wind.”
George Gordon Noel Byron
I've never voted for someone in the Democrat Party...
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:01PM EDT (link)But I did vote for McCain.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
Ditto - I've Never Voted Dem
IJB Saturday, October 9th at 2:29PM EDT (link)AFAICR, I’ve never even voted third party before.
There have been a few races (e.g. L.A. Mayor, CA Superintendent of Public Instruction, etc.) that I’ve had to leave blank. In fact, this year, I’ll have to leave the CA SIoPI vote blank again…
Well yeah I wasn't always a party man
Neil Stevens (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:03PM EDT (link)but it never occurred to me to vote Democrat. Libertarian, yes. Democrat, no.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
that's funny...while a Dem, I never voted against Strom Thurmond because
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 2:05PM EDT (link)his foundation paid for my books in college!
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Nope, not in a partisan office.nt
Tbone (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 4:05PM EDT (link)Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
O'Sullivan does not go far enough.
acat (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 9:01AM EDT (link)Pournelle does. Iron Law of Bureaucracy.
To paraphrase, the older an organization is, the more likely that the group running it are more interested in preserving their jobs, position, perqs than in preserving the principles the organization is based upon.
The NRA has not been invaded from without, or “taken over” – it’s much simpler than that. The people in charge are willing to throw away the heart of the organization to stay in charge.
Mew
——
Caveat Suffragator
Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy does not appear to explain
Locke (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 10:45AM EDT (link)why the organizations go left.
But you’re right. These laws are all related. Pournelle’s seems closely related to Robert Michels’ Iron Law of Oligarchy (sited by O’Sullivan) that ” in any organization the permanent officials will gradually obtain such influence that its day-to-day program will increasingly reflect their interests rather than its own stated philosophy”.
The orgs "go left" because they are rent-seekers
aesthete (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 11:52AM EDT (link)Democrats are almost explicitly the party of rent-seeking and industrial policy. In addition, they have more experience shaking down orgs and complex systems through the running of cities (which tend to be dominated by Dems). Republicans are the party that is philosophically opposed to rent-seeking and un-level playing fields: it is much more difficult to disguise and obviate rent-seeking from a free market perspective. Additionally, Republicans only recently gained access to the levers of legislative power (gaining a majority in the mid-90s): political philosophy aside, they just aren’t as experienced as the party of the “lions of the Senate”, and their lobbying attempts are clumsily apparent. In countries with authoritarian forms of conservatism behind the wheel (several countries in the third world, the entirety of the Middle East), rent-seekers tend to be conservative.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Damn, Aesthete, that makes so much sense
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 4:35PM EDT (link)…so why not try to explain it as kindly old teacher, Mr Chips, say, who wants everyone in the the classroom to learn, rather than just dig how much the teacher knows? (See the film.)
Do this one thing and you will be the best of the best on RS,
VB
Sure thing!
aesthete (Diary) Sunday, October 10th at 8:50PM EDT (link)Business is in many ways driven by a “do no harm” mentality: the customer is always right, and you want to make him/her comfortable. As orgs get bigger and older, and lose their zeal for making products, it becomes easier to enlist the government’s help in getting profits, rather than the customer’s. In the US, the path of least resistance when it comes to doing this is getting on the Democratic party’s good side: their political base doesn’t mind government-sanctioned theft nearly so much as the Republicans’ base, and they’re not nearly as sloppy about doing it as Republicans are, due to experience and ideology. In Franquist Spain and other countries with authoritarian forms of conservatism (not the Burkean kind), the converse is true: conservatives are on the inside and leftists are on the outs, so corporate culture tries to match that reality.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Because those who seek to retain the status quo eventually try to write their business model into law .. it's sort of the bureaucrat's last line of defense against change.. [nt]
acat (Diary) Saturday, October 9th at 12:27PM EDT (link)——
Caveat Suffragator
The 2nd Amendment is one place where "old Dems" and Repubs still often agree.
minncon (Diary) Monday, October 11th at 11:49AM EDT (link)It’s a convergence that is the only hope for keeping the loonie left from dominating the Democratic Party forever. Remember… the tide ebbs and flow… ebbs and flows… ebbs and flows… the NRA, like many of us should do more often, takes the “long view.”
“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright
You're not going to like this Vassar, I know I am po'ed
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, October 11th at 1:11PM EDT (link)thanks for nothin’ NRA
Molon Labe!
Had to bring this article over here
Scope (Diary) Tuesday, October 12th at 6:18PM EDT (link)Obviously the Progressives are now against the Chamber of Commerce. Why would the COC endorse Democrats, when the Democrats have been bashing and trasing them? Is it because they haven’t supported all Democrats? The author of the article brings up the fact that the NRA is only looking out for their single issue. What is the excuse of the COC supporting the Kenyisians (sp) ? that are against small businesses, and have done all they can to destroy the small businesses? Is there any organization that has not rolled over?
Sorry, forgot to include link
Scope (Diary) Tuesday, October 12th at 6:20PM EDT (link)http://biggovernment.com/rbidinotto/2010/10/12/will-the-ruling-class-right-rescue-vulnerable-dems/