Maybe you are a homeowner with substantial acreage in your possession. Maybe you have a nice fence with which you might makes “good” neighbors of those whom you may want to keep off your land. Maybe you then built a small barn or a shed but forgot to mention it to your county appraiser and regulatory offices by applying for a building permit.
Don’t worry. You’ll still be paying through the nose. The tax man has found a new way to get you and its called Google.
The bean counters and taxmongers in Hidalgo County, Texas have found a new way to find out if you’ve built a structure for which you didn’t get a building permit if your property happens not to be visible from the streets upon which these tax men have traditionally prowled.
Google Earth, the satellite mapping service, is their startling new method. From now on if the taxing bodies in Hidalgo can’t access your property or were unaware that you built a structure that requires the heavy hand of government regulation, then they’ll just Google you on the spy satellite service to see if your land has any structures not previously noted by property tax records.
County taxers will then use computer measuring tools to assess the new structure and adjust your property values according to their ideas of what the project is worth causing your taxes to rise. No doubt these same images will be used to determine if fines and prosecution should be considered, as well.
And, proving once again that our colleges and universities are more of a menace than anything else, this bright idea came to Hidalgo County authorities from professor Brad Altemeyer’s class at South Texas College.
So, government has a whole new way to invade your privacy, swoop in upon your hearth and home, and place its boot heel on your neck.
Thanks Google.
Would it be so bad if modern tax men found as they plied their odious trade the tar and feathers that awaited their 1770s forbearers?
So they're enforcing the law? Curse them!
Simplicio Thursday, February 19th at 7:23AM EST (link)I mean, I actually go through proper channels and get permits when I improve my property. If someones doing it on the sly to avoid paying property tax, thus ultimately costing me and others more money, I hope they get caught (and even tarred and feathered). And if the local gov’t has found an easy and cost effective way to enforce the laws, that’d be a good thing.
Huh?
Warner Todd Huston Thursday, February 19th at 7:30AM EST (link)“thus ultimately costing me and others more money”
What? This makes NO sense.
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Thanks google
Simplicio Thursday, February 19th at 7:52AM EST (link)Most local gov’ts assess the total value of taxable properties, then come up with a budget for the year, then divide the second number by the first to get the necessary tax rate. If people scam to hide property value, the rate number increases and the people who obey the law end up paying more money.
Also note that using arial photography to assess property values in rural areas is pretty standard, and what the TX county was planning on doing anyways. The only difference here is that using Google allows them to save money, and thus presumably lower everyones tax rates.
Aircraft vs. Satellite is at issue
Uma Richie Thursday, February 19th at 8:11AM EST (link)Simplicio,
Yes, absolutely, people should not break the law.
The problem with this program is that the government is using space-based assets to spy on its citizens. If they used an aircraft to enforce the building codes, one could see the airplane and know that he/she was being observed as much as he/she would be able to see the housing inspector driving by. Similarly, an average citizen can afford the equipment to detect a hiding state trooper who is enforcing the speed limits with radar.
What’s next?
-An analysis of how much healthier your lawn is than your neighbor’s during a drought? You must have watered it. Here come the green police.
-There is evidence of recent digging in your yard. Someone comes in to make sure you did not bury any guns. Oh, you are planting a garden…Well still you didn’t have a “Call before you dig survey.” Pay a fine.
It does annoy me that I follow the rules when others do not and I pay for it; however, it is worth not having my privacy violated.
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“We hold our heads high, despite the price we have paid, because freedom is priceless.” -Lech Walesa
Do we seriously have to put a title on every post....
Simplicio Thursday, February 19th at 8:20AM EST (link)Google’s “satellite” view is actually almost always aerial photography, at least in the high-resolution areas of the US.
And the images are legally taken and made publically available. I think its a stretch to say having the gov’t look at publically available pictures of your property taken by another entity is an invasion of privacy.
See below.
Uma Richie Thursday, February 19th at 8:52AM EST (link)Achance sums it up better than I can.
I can’t speak for Google’s methods in obtaining its imagery; however, if a government entity is going to use satellite imagery, even commercially obtained and publicly available, it should absolutely not rely on stock photos. The agency should obtain the date/time of the imagery pass in advance from Google and inform the citizens of when the surveillance will take place.
At any rate, if it is not a matter of national security and the enforcing body does not have a warrant, I am still adamantly against this practice.
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“We hold our heads high, despite the price we have paid, because freedom is priceless.” -Lech Walesa
Wrong
Warner Todd Huston Thursday, February 19th at 8:56AM EST (link)If I build a shed without a permit that fact DOES NOT force you or anyone else to pay MORE taxes!
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I'm having trouble getting outraged as long as...
Jeff Emanuel Thursday, February 19th at 8:26AM EST (link)…findings achieved by civilian satellite use are confirmed in person and the individual being hit up with the tax/fees/penalty is given (a) warning, and (b) an opportunity to explain or counter the charges.
JE
I have some probable cause issues if there
Achance Thursday, February 19th at 8:34AM EST (link)are penalties or sanctions. And, I have serious issues if satellite surveilance is used as probable cause for a warrant for a criminal arrest.
In Vino Veritas
why superman doesn't need a warrant
Simplicio Thursday, February 19th at 9:05AM EST (link)I think something visible from the air (without using special cameras like infrared, etc) legally counts as “in plain view” and thus doesn’t require probable cause or a warrant.
Makes sense to me, people are up there flying around all the time, so if I’m a property owner I don’t really have any reasonable expectation that they won’t glance down and see my 500 acre marijuana farm or whatever.
I don't know that surveilance by a satellite is a reasonable
Achance Thursday, February 19th at 9:18AM EST (link)expectation. I’m not really taking a position on this, I suspect the courts would hold differently from state to state. My state has an explicit Constitutional guarantee of privacy, so my shed and greenhouse are probably safe from inquiring building inspectors.
In Vino Veritas
Things may have gone too far.
Uma Richie Thursday, February 19th at 9:23AM EST (link)If you correctly imply that drug enforcement officials already use space-based imagery to look for marijuana farms in the United States without some other tip off for location, I am very afraid and I am among the anti-mj minority here at RedState.
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“We hold our heads high, despite the price we have paid, because freedom is priceless.” -Lech Walesa
hubble is watching
Simplicio Thursday, February 19th at 10:46AM EST (link)@uma:
Marijuana was just an example of something that would be easy to spot from the air, and so far as I know there aren’t any law enforcement satellites in use in the US, though the Bush administration was pressing to use them for Homeland Security and such. Not sure what the status of that is now.
@Achance
I’d say aerial observation (in optical wavelengths) is a reasonable expectation, and the actual device used to do that observation doesn’t really make a difference. But I’m not a lawyer, and I certainly understand that satellites give people a “big brother” vibe that planes/helicopters don’t. In any case, I imagine at some point in the near future the gov’t will attempt to use satellites for such purposes, and we’ll get to see what the courts say.
Sort of off topic (since as I said, the google pics in the article are almost certainly taken from planes), but its an interesting issue.
I don't understand....
everphilski Thursday, February 19th at 9:35AM EST (link)Yesterday, you said we should be upset about the gentleman who built the electric car not paying road taxes, since he didn’t purchase gas, he was obviously a tax evader. (I strongly disagree with this stance. I bike thousands of miles a year on public roadways, am I a tax evader? No, I render unto Caesar what is Caesars, and he chooses to tax by the gallon of gas.)
But now today you are complaining about the local government enforcing taxes on private property improvement? I’d contend it is these people who aren’t honestly declaring structures they obviously had some part in constructing, that are the tax evaders.
I don’t understand your rhyme or reason between the two articles.
Satire vs reality?
Brian Hibbert Thursday, February 19th at 9:41AM EST (link)No you don’t understand.
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.
Join the RedState Strike Force
How could you miss the obvious
Warner Todd Huston Thursday, February 19th at 1:21PM EST (link)Mr. car inventor was using PUBLIC roads and not paying for it making everyone else pay more.
Taxman in Hidalgo was forcing INDIVIDUALS to pay for things on their PRIVATE property.
Car guy was impinging on public funds and escaping taxes. Recalcitrant Hidalgo residents were hurting no one and using no one else’s taxes.
How can you not see the difference?
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I guess I disagree
everphilski Friday, February 20th at 9:52AM EST (link)Yes, but in both cases, it is a matter of rendering to Caesar what is Caesars’.
In the first case, the electric car, I’d contend ultimately gas taxation may need to be revisited as we have more efficient vehicles. Indeed, states like Massachusetts are already doing this, looking at taxing driven miles versus gas gallons purchased.
In the second case, property taxes are a function of improved property value. The property may be private but regardless as good citizens we are to contribute our taxes.
Failing to share the improvement to the property is little different than failing to contribute to the gas tax, due to either an electric car, cycling, or brewing your own ethanol. I don’t see how you can complain about one while exalting the other.
Just a few thoughts for eveyone
38585 Thursday, February 19th at 9:47AM EST (link)First, Google Earth is not a sattelite mapping service. Google either buys the imagery from comercial vendors (space and aerial) or grabs “free” imagery from whatever government and stich it all together. Their value added storing it in one location and making it more assesable.
Second, the images are a snapshot in time usually a couple years old. No government is going to rely on google earth/maps as the only point of reference. They would still need physically observe that what they saw was indeed a permant structure and not say a tent, a new swingset, or any other temporary items.
Third, as Simplico stated, this isn’t new.
Fourth, Aerial is no different than sattelite these days. A airplane can image from well out of your hearing/sight.
A good book that covers this and other issues with remote sensing is “Spying with Maps”. It’s a little dated now, but it’s a very intresting read.
“I think the fence is least effective. But I’ll build the god–d fence if they want it.”–McCain
“I would rather have a clean government than one where quote First Amendment rights are being respected” –McCain
There is a slippery slope here
civil_truth Thursday, February 19th at 11:35AM EST (link)I don’t see any argument against aerial surveillance of fixed structures. I don’t see any reasonable expectation of privacy here.
However, once you do open the door to satellite surveillance of property, there does come a point where we abut the 4th Amendment prohibition on unreasonable search and seizure. The satellites are here and their resolution is ever increasing; we better start preparing our arguments as to the limits of surveillance, or kiss good bye to backyard trysts (among other activities).
And Rightly So!