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Colorado theater is gun free

What if everyone in the Colorado theater had been carrying a gun.  How many rounds would the “shooter” have gotten off then?  He would have shot once, then everybody else would have shot him.  Period.  Witnesses said they were just lying on the ground waiting for him to reload, which did not happen since he had large capacity magazines and multiple guns.

Have you noticed how these “shooters” always manage to pick a place where guns are not “allowed”?  Shopping malls.  Schools.  Movie theaters.  Liberal politics is driven by the implicit “need” to be cared for by the state.  (That’s how we got Obama and all the other statist “goodies.”)  A bunch of single women with children, created by the government’s own welfare policies, asking the government to “take care of them” is how we reached this point politically.

That mentality has carried over into the idea that the police will take care of us.  That’s baloney.  The corollary idea is that the population cannot be trusted with guns.  That is also bull.  Most people can be trusted to carry guns and carry them with safety and security if trained.  If one would take time to read a book, one will learn that this idea is empirically true and has bee proven over and over again.  A good place to start is John Lott’s “More Guns, Less Crime”, and go from there.

Look at Wyoming or Montana.  The populace there is allowed to carry pistols on their hips, in the open, without a special permit – yes, just like the old west.  Ever heard of a “shooting” out there.  Frankly, I don’t need a policeman or state trooper to “protect” me.  I have as much sense as any 19 year old with six months academy training.  The whole idea they want us to buy into is that we must not defend ourselves, we must let someone else do it for us.  Don’t resist!  Be passive!  Learn helplessness. But, buying into that concept and staying safe is not possible in a country as large as ours.

Now, concerns always arise about the safety of the police officers if everyone has a gun.  Believe me, I am as concerned about their safety as anyone else.  Law enforcement personnel have a very difficult and dangerous job under the best of circumstances.  In the long run, I believe their work will be safer if everyone carries a gun.

First of all, gun threats will be dealt with by other citizens long before the police arrive.  Just as occurs when a group of citizens witness an innocent party being attaked by a thug.  In most cases, they subdue the aggressor until police arrive.  Second, police will not have to run around trying to guess who has a gun.  The answer will be — EVERYBODY has one.  Thus, they will be more alert and more sure of themselves.  All these stupid shooting review boards can retire.  Third, the job of police officer is inherently dangerous.  Short of an out and out police state, it will always be dangerous.  (Indeed, in a police state, it would be far more dangerous.)  Fourth, is the purpose of our civilization to allow maximum protection for the police or to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

It reminds me of the teachers’ demand that unruly students be medicated.  Sure, their job will be a lot easier if all the behavior problems in the classroom are full of Ritalin.  However, is the purpose of the schools to make the teachers day as easy as possible or to teach the most number of children?  You might say this is where the analogy breaks down, since it’s a small number of disruptive children who are creating chaos in the schools, and besides, it’s not (usually) a life or death situation in a classroom.

I agree to an extent, but what would be the solution?  We could do away with allowing school children ”due process” rights and kick them out of school if they become intransigently disruptive.  Likewise, we can get rid of the joke that Miranda rights have become, along with all the other meaningless laws which encumber police action on the street level.  We can bring back truth in sentencing laws.  And we can bring back the death penalty with a vengence.  The analogy actually carries quite well, as statistics show it’s the same small group of people committing all, or most of the crime, and they are usually from the same one or two neighborhoods in the city, time after time.

Besides, open-carry laws in other states have resulted in fewer shootings and far less injury and fatalities to police officers than in states where the government tries to control who has a gun.  Now, how about a mental exercise?   Let’s suppose the government finally manages to outlaw guns in the U.S. First of all, good luck confiscating the millions of guns already possessed lawfully.  Second of all, how is the government going to keep them out of the country?  Will their efforts be as successful as those to prohibit the influx of illegal immigrants? marijuana?  cocaine? guns already being smuggled in?  (yes, it does happen) exotic plants?  exotic animals?  The list could go on and on, ad infinitum.

We, as a society, do not have to put up with high crime rates.  Ignore recent fluctuations in crime – it skyrocketed in the sixties and has never gone back anywhere near the lows we enjoyed previous to that time, even accounting for population growth.  The point is, if the government does not trust the population to carry guns, the population should not trust the government to take them away.

COMMENTS

  • gflyer3364qt

    Standard pistol rounds may not penetrate the armor. But bigger calibers like .45 damn sure still hurt when they hit. The impact has to go somewhere and can down the shooter and distract him.

  • From ME to You

    See this story about a guy in a wheelchair taking care of an intruder!

    WSYX 6 ABC

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Colorado has an open carry law. We also have a Make My Day law (you can use lethal force on your property to protect yourself), and a Make My Day Better law which allows business owners the same protections.

    Colorado is also a concealed carry state. The problem isn’t with the state’s laws, it’s with theater’s policies. They are gun free. Any business can disallow concealed carry on their property. If that’s important to you, you should find out whether or not the business establishments you frequent have this policy in place or not.

  • Warrior

    I never said Co did NOT have open carry laws. I said “what if everybody in the Colorado theater were carrying a gun?” I was referring to the mentality of not protecting oneself, as you would have noticed if you had read the piece carefully. Mainly, I had places like gun-free NYC in mind, which boasts of apprx one murder a day.

    I broadened the scope to states which have a MENTALITY of open carry. So, CO may have open carry laws, but until the MENTALITY of the populace transforms into one of self protection, theaters, malls, and high schools will always be calling themselves “gun free zones.”

    Another recent shooting in Colorado Springs shows what I mean when Jeanne Assam shot a would-be gunman before he could do real damage at New Life Church. New Life’s Senior Pastor Brady Boyd called Assam “a real hero” because the gunman, Matthew Murray, “had enough ammunition on him to cause a lot of damage.”

    So, try reading the diary carefully before giving me grief, O.K. know-it-all?

  • Viet71

    NRA members have about a zero-percent crime rate.

    As an NRA Life Member, I have observed that NRA members know weapons and weapon use well.

    Holmes, BTW, is not an NRA member.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    You probably should’ve just left it alone.

    I can’t imagine what you mean by mentality in this case, but clearly you know nothing about Colorado. Your example above proves my point. The issue isn’t with Colorado’s laws, but those businesses which choose to thwart the clear purpose and need for open and concealed carry. Your beef is with Cinemark, not the voters of Colorado.

    Lastly, this is an interactive website. I’ll post my retorts wherever I choose.

  • Warrior

    And if nightwister above could read, he would see the title of the piece is “Colorado theater is gun fee”. That should have given him a clue as to what I was talking about.

    And BTW, just for the record, on or about 4-23-12, yet another gunman was fixin’ to kill everybody in a small CO church before he himself was gunned down by an off duty cop.

    Fortunately, the policeman was there. But should we always have to depend on the chance presence of a an off duty cop in our midst?

    “An off-duty police officer killed a gunman who fatally shot a woman Sunday afternoon outside a church.

    Aurora police are investigating the shootings outside the New Destiny Christian Center at 10686 E. Bethany Drive.

    Police spokesman Frank Fania confirmed late Sunday that two people, including a suspected gunman, died.”

    www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    You’re taking what I said out of context!

    I can assure you I read the entire diary more than once before I commented. You see, I read more than just the title.

  • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

    Sadly true, but many things do tend to happen more frequently in really big places. On a per-capita basis, using 2010 data for Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter as the closest available measure, among ~75 U.S. cities of >250k pop, New York City was ~49* from the top with a 6.2/100k/year rate. That’s well below quite a few other places that might not, like to think of themselves “like … NYC”, whether “gun-free” or not, including (at the top) NOLA/49.1, KC/21.1, Buffalo/20.7, Tulsa/13.7, Memphis/13.2, Houston/11,8, Dallas/11.3, Minneapolis/9.6, Nashville/8.9, Omaha/7.3, and, curiously, at 46 on the list, with a 2010 rate of 7.1 …

    Aurora, CO.

    * quick hand count–trying to finish this before prayer meeting starts

  • audax

    When in US,don’t go anywhere without at least one of them.

  • Don T.

    Let me add that Colorado law, similar to my own state of Georgia, does permit concealed carry in places like theaters, while at the same time the law allows businesses like theaters to ban firearms from their premises. If there is not a metal detector or security person with a hand detector wanding patrons, a licensed carrier can legally conceal that weapon out of sight in a theater or other business, without breaking any law. The gun carrier is violating the no firearms policy of that business, however, although the business is almost always quite unaware of the infraction. Now, if the presence of the concealed firearm is discovered by the business management or security, the manager has every right to ask the licensed carrier to disarm or leave. Then, that licensed carrier must do so, or face criminal trespass charges. So, concealed carry, out of sight and out of mind, is done by legal carriers in these kinds of venues, quite often.

  • Warrior

    The fact that you cannot imagine something is neither surprising nor relevant. I should think there are many things you cannot imagine.

    If you need a clue as to the purpose my post, try reading the diary’s title before shooting off your ignorant mouth.

    I don’t have a “beef” with any voters, Colorado’s laws or Colorado itself and your pitiful attempt to make it the gravaman of your strawman argument is both embarrassing and stupid.

    I’m talking about citizens learning to depend on themselves for their own safety rather than relying on gubmint. If you cannot grasp such a simple concept, at least you could cease making an idiot of yourself with such puerile and simple-minded remarks.

    And, oh yes, you may post anywhere you like. But if you come around here looking for trouble, you are going to get burnt every time.

  • Warrior

    Yeah Cinc, I was just trying to make a point. For instance, Saginaw, MI, with just 200,000 people also has about one murder per day.

    And as far as total violent crime in Saginaw, it was up more than 50 percent in 2008 compared with 2000. Saginaw has ranked as the most violent city in U.S. since 2003, based on violent crimes per person in the nearly 850 cities with populations greater than 40,000.

    Sad, but true…

  • Warrior

    So, why don’t you go home to ‘yo mama and leave political discussions to those of us WHO KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT…

  • streiff

    NightTwister points out a couple of items you should have mentioned in your diary. Getting mad at him and doesn’t fix the underlying problem.. How about updating your diary to address the factual errors?

  • Warrior

    The laws are similar here in Alabama. The probem I see is the child-like dependence on gubmint to protect us from all alarms.

    I believe people’s attitudes towards guns, inanimate objects mind you, are now fear-driven, thanks in large part to liberal media/entertainment propagandizing. I actually read a grown man’s comments about the CO shooting on FB yesterday who asked, verbatim, “Why doesn’t everybody just turn in their firearms?”

    Yeah, and “Why can’t we all just get along?” “Who is John Galt?”

    Let me tell a brief story about the sea change in attitudes I’ve seen in the last few decades. In the early eighties I was working my way through school. One of my part-time jobs was mid-night shift, week-end security guard at the Emergency Room of a busy public hospital.

    On occasion, someone would come in carrying a pistol visible to the public. Well, since it was hospital policy not to allow guns in the ER, it was my job to address the issue. It was easy. All I had to do was inform the person politely that no guns were allowed; ask them if they could take it to their vehicle or, if they did not have one, could I lock it up for them until they left. In three years of night-shift, I never had one problem with compliance. Most people were just surprised, no one became belligerent.

    (I rarely carried down there myself, although I was authorized. Why should I have? Guns are heavy, uncomfortable and a huge responsibility. I carried for four years in the service and that was quite enough for me, thank you.)

    Nowadays, an armed police officer is on duty down there 24/7. If a weapon is spotted, the tazers come out, SWAT is called or some such over-reaction takes place.

    Intent is the key: mens rea. It has nothing to do with a peice of iron. So, attitudes among the general populace concerning inanimate objects have been politicized to fit the dreams of utopians, statists and socialists whose first action after coming to power is inevitably to disarm the population.

  • Warrior

    Now you are on RS to tell me what I “should” have mentioned in my diary. Besides, he got mad first and slung the first barbs. Now, I put him in his place and you jump in to defend him.

    I don’t really know who you are streiff, but you should remember the last time you started up with me. It did not end well for you and it will not again. Stay out of my business unless you have something material to add.

  • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

    in crime rates between the 2 cities be explained without some acknowledgment that cobalt-blue New York is handling at least some aspects of the total package differently than Saginaw et al?

    Not rhetorical either–my choice to live where I do* was made long ago with very little reference to these issues because of other compelling interests, so other than the few charts/tables I have linked in the last couple days, I am not skilled enough to argue this, but would be glad to know your thoughts.

    * The purchase of my house coincided with that early 90s spike in the NYC numbers, and the violent crime rate of the neighborhood I chose to move into with wife and 2 young children was certainly among the highest in the city at that time, not least due to being in the heart of Bloods territory. As the reference to Psalm 91 in Ryland’s Sovereign Ruler of the Skies reminds us, however, as important as prudent policy is, our ultimate safety lies elsewhere:

    1. Sovereign Ruler of the skies, ever gracious, ever wise;
    All my times are in Thy hand, all events at Thy command.
    His decree who formed the earth fixed my first and second birth;
    And my parents, native place, and time; all appointed were by Him.

    2. He that formed me in the womb shall guide me to the tomb;
    All my times shall ever be ordered by His wise decree.
    Times of poverty and wealth; times of sickness and of health;
    And times of trial and of grief; times of triumph and relief.

    3. Times the tempter’s power to prove; times to taste the Savior’s love;
    Plagues and deaths around me fly; till He bids, I cannot die.
    Not a single shaft can hit till the God of love sees fit!
    All my times must come, and last, and end as shall please my heavenly Friend.

  • streiff

    other than yourself, in their place.

    Everything that happens on this site is my business and if you doubt that, shoot your mouth off again like you did in your last paragraph.

  • gekster

    The red letters should give you a hint.
    Just saying.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Did you read your diary?

    Look at Wyoming or Montana. The populace there is allowed to carry pistols on their hips, in the open, without a special permit ? yes, just like the old west. Ever heard of a ?shooting? out there. Frankly, I don?t need a policeman or state trooper to ?protect? me.

    These are your words, and in context stated as different from Colorado. my first comment was to show that this was wrong, Colorado is just like Wyoming and Montana. Your statement suggests that if Colorado had these same laws, they wouldn’t have these shootings. Yet, Colorado does have these same laws.

    I’d suggest that you quit while you’re behind, but we’re way past that now. Your best option is to just quietly slink away, but I can’t imagine you’ll do that based on your posting history to date.

  • Warrior

    did have open carry laws, then Colorado did not. You know what they say about assumptions.

    This obviously suggests, since all three states have the same laws, that another factor is involved — attitudes about self-protection, for instance — which was my point.

    Nobody shoots up Wyoming and Montana like they continue to do Colorado becasue the word is out. If you pull a gun in WY or MO, somebody else will waste you.

    Your objection is a lawerly one, but not of very good quality. In other words, so you won’t miss my meaning, you’re still an idiot.

  • Warrior

    Yet another factual error in a 32-word post.

    And besides defending your cyber-girlfriend from the logical and lexical butt-whoopin’ she so richly deserved, you now owe me an apology.

    Cry-babies like you are what’s wrong with RS these days.

  • streiff

    guess you showed me again.

  • gekster

    Didn’t even have time to get some garlic salted popcorn.

  • acat

    In the heat of posting, little details can get overlooked, gekster….

    Mew

  • acat

    Warrior’s been around a while… and may manage to persuade another chance out of The Management.

    Mew

  • tnfriendofcoal101368

    nt

  • Don T.

    Exactly right. I make of being armed, just about everywhere I go. Practically speaking, this often means being discrete and keeping the firearm concealed, especially in a gun-unfriendly location. Too bad that we have to put up with unreasoning fear of a tool, but there it is.

  • Bill S

    And we won’t have to deal with you, either.

  • Don T.

    *I make a point of being armed*

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    But I’m not a ghost…

  • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

    Last line of the hymn appears in a new light as well.

  • PowerToThePeople

    Had to ask, saw the threat.

  • streiff

    so yes

  • gekster

    your second hand smoke is gonna kill me.

    (could you try cigars, I hear they are much more pleasant, and quicker for me ;) )

  • kipling

    I recommend the Macanudo Robusto. Let the kids get their own cigars.

  • gekster

    I tell my grandkids grow up before you **** it up