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RedState Growing Pains And Winning This Election

By: westcoastpatriette (Diary)  |  October 18th, 2012 at 11:25 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Sometimes I have a hard time wrapping my brain around some of Erick’s comments in his diaries.  But when I find myself perplexed about it, I slow down and try to listen more because I realize that he has much more experience than I in the realm of politics and is probably aware of and seeing things that I do not see.

What I don’t like about a lot of the commentary of late is people accusing Erick of evil motives and impugning his character because they disagree with his analysis.  When I see old-timers jump on this band wagon, my first impression is that they are projecting jealousy, envy and/or avenging an old grudge — which makes me listen to their criticisms even less as a result.

RedState is under a lot of pressure right now and is going through a lot of changes.  Most of the regulars here are not happy with the changes (myself included) but have been able to vent their frustrations without eviscerating Erick and thinking the absolute worst of him.  There really can be more than one correct position to take on issues and I hate to see people turn on Erick even if the changes here were a mistake.  He has made clear he is not happy with it either and is still open to further amendments to the changes.

We need to learn how to disagree with each other without betraying and abandoning each other.  And yes, I’m talking to myself, too.  I know I have flown off the handle more than once here and am constantly looking for better ways to effectively debate and confront.

Not sure why I am writing this.  Needed to get it off my chest, I guess.  I love RedState and I still believe in Erick and all of the mods and most of the writers and commenters here.  Hope we don’t let the redesign disappointment destroy us completely.  We need each other more than ever right now.  We are on the brink of winning this election big time.

COMMENTS

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  • Viet71

    What I see in the comments to Erick’s 180 degrees diary is a desire to reaffirm Redstate as a rebel outpost. As a place of us, not them.

    I’ve been told here never to trust a Democrat. That’s as absolute as it gets. Erick’s recent diaries reveal he now views the political world in a more nuanced way. Which raises the question — is Redstate still a rebel outpost, or is it now a mainstream stop on the Left-Right continuum?

    Politics as practiced by Leftist activists, I’ve observed, is absolutist. So too it should be for Right-leaning activists, IMO, so long as reason is not foreclosed.

    • westcoastpatriette

      But don’t you think the ability to see things in a more nuanced way is a sign of maturity since things are rarely as clear-cut and black and white as they seem? I am not seeing any big change in how Erick views things and just because he admits feeling fond of Crowley or disagrees that there has been intentional skewing of polls does not mean he is becoming a moderate squish. That’s why I suspect that part of the reaction has to do with the overall frustration with all of the changes here and fearing that Erick is compromising and becoming too establishment-like in the process. Unfounded fears, IMO.

      • Viet71

        Agree, except I come to Redstate for thunder and lightning. It’s a political site.

        • streiff

          serious question. We aren’t providing the thunder and lightning? What do we need to do because I’ve never been accused of nuance.

          • Viet71

            Oh, you and Moe and Neil and others give me plenty of T & L.

          • PowerToThePeople

            I usually go outside in a thunderstorm for my dose of thunder and lightening. If you want a lot of up close lightening, hold metal in your hands and stand in a pool of water.

            Joking!

          • lineholder

            Okay, streiff, FWIW….

            Four years ago, Conservatives were in many ways complacent about the situation our nation was facing. They were unhappy, disgruntled, and disappointed about how things had gone under Bush, etc. Then, Obama was elected, and Conservatives in particular got a major wake-up call. If we didn’t take action and quickly, this nation of ours was in big trouble. And even today, that’s still part of the reality we face, isn’t it? If Obama gets re-elected, then it will move us even further in the direction of becoming a socialistic society that operates on rule of man rather than rule of law, government dependency, economic instability, etc. So, a lot of us are still looking for ways to take action.

            Whether you guys realize it or not, we depend on you for information in this regards. We can get commentary galore at plenty of other sites. What we are looking for in many instances is people who will take on the role of leaders, providing us with information about what we can DO in a practical sense.

            You’ve all provided that in one way or another, including Erick. But there has been a subtle change lately that is just difficult to describe…lack of fire or determination…lack of focus…something that is almost intangible when it comes to putting it into words.

            Perhaps it really isn’t fair for us to look at RS to be a leader in this context. But that’s how it is for a lot of us, streiff. And it does matter. Look at what Conservatives have managed to accomplish and achieve in the past four years!

          • Common_Cents

            Lack of focus LH? This iphone5 review was laser focus with 40 days to go in the most important election of our lifetimes! Hard hitting FP stuff!!

            http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/24/my-iphone-5-review/

          • barleycorn

            @streiff:disqus It seems to my eye that there is less up to the minute news & information on the front page. Both the design and the content of the front page is seriously lacking at this point. As lineholder has already mentioned there is a seeming “lack of fire or determination…lack of focus” on the front page. Coming down the home stretch there should (IMHO) be daily updates on where $ help is needed, where push-back needs to occur, etc. With the old format some of the more experienced and capable diarists were able to fill this need. With the new system not so much, and this in turn puts even more pressure on you front pagers to get the information out where it can do some good. My two cents.

          • Bill S

            Redstate has never, ever been an “up to the minute news and information” site. Never. In fact, we almost avoid it unless something REALLY big is happening. We don’t have a news staff. We are a mostly volunteer army who do things in between our day jobs and raising our kids.

          • barleycorn

            I’m not expressing my thoughts well. When I say “news” I mean political/ campaign information/updates. For instance in 2010 there was a huge amount of information flowing from the front page at Redstate relative to what was happening in the primaries and then the general. The first time I heard/saw Marco Rubio’s name it was on the front page of RedState.

            It may be that the front page then and now looks differently depending on which side of it you are standing. Perhaps it meant something to me, served a purpose for me, that was not intended or was just a happy accident.

          • streiff

            I refer you to my previous answer.

          • barleycorn

            @streiff:disqus Keep up the good work!

          • streiff

            we don’t do new/information. We’re a blog. The contribs are volunteers. We write for free therefore we write about what amuses us.

      • gsandlapper1

        As a long time lurker for many years that just joined today, there does appear to be a CNN effect, which is quite natural when one has to get along in the workplace. Rush often speaks of this effect and why he has never wanted to be a guest driven show, nor have his program located inside the DC Beltway. I never have been much interested in columns about polls that simply accept what the polls say. I can read a poll. Who needs a story about it? Reminds of frustrating newspaper stories about the latest top 25 college football teams that doesn’t simply list the top 25. The best columns about the horse race are those that see trends before the polls confirm them, imho.

        • westcoastpatriette

          Well, welcome to coming out in the open. Just curious…what made you come out after lurking all of these years?

          • gsandlapper1

            Been out in the open in other venues, but wanted to weigh in here on my longtime observation of how the Leftist media most often hijacks the meaning of elections in their coverage designed to protect liberalism’s credibility. On a side note, I mainly agree with you in that other thread, but think its certainly acceptable for EE to think the world of Candy. And this link shows how I think its likely that Obama baited her into the gaffe: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444734804578064741303660914.html?mod=djemBestOfTheWeb_h

      • paladin1

        Maam, I seldom disagree with you but on this point, respectfully I must. We conservatives have gotten into the position we currently find ourselves in because of our gradual acceptance of the very concept you state in the first sentence. Liberals, as Viet71 correctly points out, are absolutists. What has that gotten them over the years? How about the greatest change in the Constitutional view which founded our country and its resultant dilution of that document? How about the great change in the perception of such a large portion of the public that they are owed livelihood by the shrinking pool of industrious entrepreneurs because the welfare takers will not exert themselves? How about a public debt of 16 trillion dollars because of that same welfare mentality?

        No, we must absolutely remain absolute and resolute. No quarter, no agreement, and no compromise can be allowed. We may or may not be able to remove ourselves from the morass our compromise and “mature greying” of the issues has perpetrated; only time will tell whether or not we have compromised too much to survive. This election result may begin to answer the question but it is only a beginning.

        Lastly, look at your arguments and statements during the primary debates held here during this campaign. That is the ‘patriette I remember, not the one who wrote this comment!

        • westcoastpatriette

          I think you’re reading more into my comment than I was addressing. Specifically, some people here at RS are convinced that Erick is becoming an establishment compromising squish mainly due to his admission that he has known Crowley a long time and “thinks the world of her” and also because of his refusal to believe the polls have been rigged of late. Maybe calling Erick’s views the ability to be nuanced is not the right way to say it, but I am just saying that these things are not proof to me that Erick has cratered and is compromising conservative principles at all. Just because he works with and around libs does not mean he will eventually become like them and I just see a lot of people making these accusations without proof — other than the fact that they disagree with Erick on a few points and don’t like the changes he has made here. That’s all. I am still the same and have no intention of caving on my conservative principles.

          • paladin1

            Maam, I completely agree with you here regarding Eric. I don’t think he has “cratered” either. I was just addressing my perception of the overall tone of your commentary attached to this string as being out of character for you, a real fighter for conservativism. I just note that we as conservatives, cannot continue to give ground else we will have no ground left to give. The Left doesn’t nuance or give ground, it charges full ahead leaving no prisoners; note the battle last summer (August, 2011) over the budget. They were prepared to let the government default if they didn’t get their way so our weaklings as Speaker and Senate Minority Leader both tucked tail and forced their retreat on the new freshmen conservatives who were damaged with the retreat and subsequent votes which were then forced on those freshmen. We must avoid this again at all costs.

  • mrsemptybucket

    I know my comments sometimes go too far also patriette! Erick seems to push buttons with some of his RedState following. I seem to remember just a few days ago he backtracked a bit from an excellent article about Liberal media bias using a specific reporter as an example. I thought the article was right on and did not think it was a personal attack on the reporter but many thought the opposite – hence the problem lately at RedState. People seem ready to jump on the messenger instead of getting what the message is all about. I don’t want to see the FP writers or those who write diaries when the mood strikes them to ever feel the kind of hatred the Left spews at us on our own site. Thanks for writing such a well thought out diary with the final punch…we need to keep our focus on the 2012 election as we are close to winning! YES
    PS if Erick could go back and change the wording from “think the world of” to perhaps a more businesslike phrase I think some here would not have gone off the deep end, especially after seeing how she treated Romney during the debate. I was one who could not understand that word usage to describe a very liberal democrat. It’s somewhat like the 5 on Foxnews, under no circumstance to you get the impression anyone around that table “thinks the world of” Beckel, but they remain civil as best they can with some of his nonsense. Disclosure is one thing, praise is another and some of us took that disclosure to mean high praise, not exactly what we want to read about Crowley on RedState. Not trying to read between the lines is my new resolution for the new year. Don’t want to start until after Romney gets elected.

    • westcoastpatriette

      i know. I had a hard time with the “think the world of” phrase, too, but then I remembered how much I love leftists in my own family and understood what Erick might be trying to say. But, I don’t think Erick’s admission affected his ability to see the truth either. And that’s what’s important, no?

      • fightnright

        hi meb and wcp, I also am guessing that the emotional strain of this past few months is taking a tremendous toll on all of us political activists, to whom saving the Founding Principles of these United States is so critical.

        When there is fear, grief, or existential challenge in any family, it’s
        common for there to be more intense squabbling and reflexive backbiting. Every word spoken by each family member is perceived through a more critical lens, and discussions of varying points of view on how to manage events provoke ~waves~ of anxiety. It’s no wonder to me that this election
        cycle is having its effect on our home at RedState.

        • westcoastpatriette

          Right on and amen, fightnright. nt

  • Kyle-MI

    To a lot of conservatives, especially regulars, Redstate is an oasis of sanity in a crazy political world. They read things in the regular MSM or hear things from friends and family, but then take a look around and cannot believe the propaganda being pushed. This creates tension and anxiety in them. They don’t always have all the information necessary to refute these view, but they know they can get a trusted, intelligent, conservative point of view on Redstate. So when they read such thoughtful diaries, it makes sense and relieves some of the anxiety.

    But when Erick writes a counter article, it brings back that anxiety. It would be one thing if Erick was just another diarist that we could
    ignore. When it is the founder with a trusted record, it is impossible
    to ignore it. Confronted with this, some readers lash back with personal attacks. Others, however, counter back with facts and well reasoned arguments. That also feeds into those who emotionally lash back, and those who use reason cannot help but feel some betrayal of trust.

    Again, it would be one thing if I felt Erick’s arguments have been thoughtful and well reasoned. It is hard to take bad news, but it is acceptable if you feel you can trust the source. I am not saying the Erick has gone the way of the koskids, but he has been less than convincing now in two instances. And it doesn’t help when some of those arguing with reason and facts are dismissed and out right banned (if only for a week).

    I have never been in an election this tense. Before, I usually felt we could survive four or even eight years. I really don’t think we can last another term under Obama. The deficits and debt are so huge. The entitlements seem to be so entrenched and time is running out to reform them. Most of all, the Supreme Court is just in the balance. I am not even sure we haven’t gone beyond the point of no return with respect to the judiciary. When everything seems to be going against us, it doesn’t help to lose trust in a friend who has been reliable in the past.

    • streiff

      not to pick nits, but Erick is not a founder. That credit goes to Josh Trevino, Ben Domenech, and Mike Krempasky. Dan McLaughlin and I predate Erick on RedState.

    • westcoastpatriette

      Brilliant insights, Kyle-MI, especially the first two paras. I must take issue with the last sentence in the third para, however, as I do not believe that the writers who were temporarily banned were “arguing with reason and facts,” but had crossed the line into derogatory insults, accusations and blatant disrespect in their comments. If I ever get to the point where I truly feel that way about Erick, I will move on rather than smear him here in his own territory.

    • Bill S

      Have you ever stopped to consider that the conservative “conventional wisdom” might be wrong? And you are bloody insane if you think the people we timed out yesterday were “arguing with reason and facts”. What they were arguing with was assumptions, generalizations and assertions without evidence. There has not been a single solitary person, anywhere who has proven that the press is intentionally misleading to depress voter turnout. And that is exactly the argument that those alleged “reason and facts” people were spewing.

      I don’t expect blind agreement with what’s written here. But when people disagree, I expect it to be done in a way that does not question the character or motive of those who wrote the original diary. The bans were done because there was a repeated pattern of attacks that go beyond disagreement, and those were allowed to go on beyond our normal time frame of tolerance.

  • barleycorn

    Excellent comments Mrs. Bucket. ;-)

    People are worried and anxious about the conditions we face, and frightened people often act and speak irrationally. Folks (everywhere, not just RedState) are paranoid and on edge to an extent I’ve never seen before.

    The moderators here have clearly loosened up their standards to an extent in recognition of this. Many of the comments over the past few weeks would have earned an immediate administration of the blam-stick a year or even 6 months ago.

    I think this is a good thing but at the same time some have abused that loosening and gone well over the line. Some plain old politeness is called for. You don’t go to dinner at someone’s house and then complain about the hors d’oeuvres.

    I hate this disruption when we are so close to the end zone.

    • barleycorn

      Well obviously I forgot who actually wrote the diary I was responding to.
      Excellent comments West Coast and also excellent comments by many others including Mrs. Bucket.

      • westcoastpatriette

        Hey, barleycorn…you can edit now, remember? Just change it. Oh, never mind. It’s too late now. Your second comment won’t make sense. But thanks for the nice comments. Think we all could take a chill pill or two about now.

        • mrsemptybucket

          this short fuse stuff extends out into real life as well. Someone requested prayer in our church prayer chain (which I send emails out for) for Paul Ryan…boy a couple of die hard libs wrote me really awful emails about how if we’re going to pray for Ryan we ought to pray for Obama. Whoa, what a bunch of thin skinned liberals exist right now. You can’t do anything innocently, its always a conspiracy. The prayer request was about not having Paul Ryan go through what Sarah Palin and her family did and still do. I was amazed as most of my church family views me as pretty fair and not mean spirited, so I was shocked at their fury at me. Fortunately after I send out another email offering to step aside I got tons of support and asked to continue. It still amazes me that Believers support political party of abortion.

          • westcoastpatriette

            Yes, I’m afraid Obama has unleashed evil spirits throughout the land and it seems to be affecting everyone. That must have been hard to deal with. I can relate as a conservative. I went to a meeting last Saturday at a large non-denominational church. it was an assortment of activists here in California who decided to combine their meetings for this month — everything from Tea Party folks, to experts on fighting the homosexual agenda in America to a group who are fighting the implementation of Sharia and a GOTV bunch. All Christians. I got into a heated argument with one of the organizers during break because I thought I heard him imply that he was voting for Obama.

            Poor man. From the glare that came on my face when I asked him to clarify if he was voting for the O., he quickly assured me he was not and said he misunderstood what I was saying. (I had a feeling he was lying but didn’t dare confess it.)

            I almost felt bad later. I have never felt such hostility toward anyone in any other election over who they were voting for. But like you, I cannot for the life of me see how any true Christian could be a Dem much less vote for the O. God help us, huh?.

          • funwithknives

            I will not presume to fathom your seeming anger , but it IS understood in this house.
            Don’t ‘feel bad’ for what you think is line crossing or mental dithering.
            It is your brain, giving you a subliminal message. One of The Many Gifts, Your Creator gave you.
            Plus, this is unlike ‘any other election’,and it’s only good and proper you are allowed to be ‘a trifle lapsed’ ,once in a while.
            In response to your last comment, did you see the interview where Jim Carville claimed that you don’t have to be a ‘great thinker’ to be a Progressive? He said that is where Their Base gets most of it’s members.
            So, how would they know intellectually, if they are True Christians?
            Most of the Progressives I’ve ever had contact with are, shall we say, ‘less than optimal’, when it comes to Critical Thinking.

          • westcoastpatriette

            Oh, that’s a great point, funwithknives…actually made me LOL! Not that I’m not aware that there are wolves in sheeps clothing that infiltrate all churches, but, to hear a liberal admit they go after stupid people is, on its face, brilliant! Thanks for sharing that.

        • barleycorn

          Oh yes, the edit button. Doh!

  • Ausonius

    A few days ago I commented under “My WIstful Dreams of RedState” the following:

    “Whether Mr. Erickson is also evolving in his own way into a
    “centrist” who can hobnob with media elites on the coasts remains to be
    seen. Are there indications of that in some of his recent comments? A
    “centrist” would seem to be somebody who accepts things from both
    Leftist Liberals and Conservatives. What does Mr. Erickson believe
    which could be defined as a liberal tenet?

    e.g. Being unwilling to admit that political pressure from the
    administration to cook unemployment numbers is a possibility would not
    necessarily qualify one as a centrist.”

    It seemed that some of the main controversy came from his comments on the unemployment-numbers-cooking. As far as I know – because when I go back to Conservative Curmudgeon’s diary the comments are cut off! – nobody responded to my question, which was not rhetorical.

    • westcoastpatriette

      Hi, Ausonius…good to hear from you. Yes, there has been a lot of speculation about what is going on behind the scenes at RS. The bottom line for me at this point is we all have done all we could do to make clear how we feel about the changes and there is nothing more to say in terms of changing anyone’s mind.

      Personally, I don’t think Erick is abandoning his principles or going to the dark side. Many times he surprises me with some of his views but his reasoning is usually pretty solid and it doesn’t make me doubt his conservatism.

      Maybe you missed some of the action day before yesterday but a handful of regulars got banned by Moe for taking their accusations and contempt for Erick too far. I was glad Moe did it because I was really uncomfortable with the hazing that was going on. Moe made the bans temporary and told them — mbecker and gamecock among a few others — that if they wanted to come back in a week to email them and they might think about it.

      • westcoastpatriette

        kowalski…that’s partly why I wrote this diary. Not only are we feeling tossed to the wind watching our beloved RS disintegrate, there is infighting going on and some people are turning on Erick. It’s all got me bummed and frustrated so I took to the pen as a form of catharsis. It’s all quite sad.

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