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Debate Open Thread

By: zsmv f6 (Diary)  |  December 10th, 2011 at 09:07 PM  | 

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Open thread for ABC GOP debate

COMMENTS

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  • trevorb

    start for each of them; let’s see if they can keep it up.

  • Xasteius

    no text

  • trevorb

    the idea. I know who these “moderators” are. I hope Gingrich will tear them to bits; it’s always fun to watch.

  • Xasteius

    text

  • Xasteius

    te

  • Xasteius

    tex

  • Xasteius

    I think I saw a string move his arm up.

  • chbroussard

    nt

  • Common_Cents

    Romney was tripped up on differences between him and gingrich.

    Oooops, here comes Newt nailing romney.

  • Xasteius

  • Xasteius

    How about wack job?

  • Common_Cents

    George Steph: Let’s not talk about how you will beat obama, but how you will beat up each other.

  • trevorb

    are doing exactly what I expected them to do: start a fight between the candidates. i keep hoping Gingrich will call them out, but no such luck.

  • Xasteius

    **

  • Xasteius

    qwer

  • Xasteius

    whoops.

  • Xasteius

    asdf

  • Xasteius

    zxcv

  • pttx333

    n

  • Common_Cents

    it’s time to talk how we beat obama not beat each other.

  • Xasteius

    bnm

  • Xasteius

    n,.

  • Xasteius

    .;[

  • Xasteius

    1234

  • Xasteius

    2345

  • Xasteius

    poui

  • Xasteius

    890-

  • Xasteius

    0-=

  • snowshooze

    Newt doing well..

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    Perry is articulate and fired-up. Bachmann has been fantastic. Ron Paul . . . *facepalm*. Mitt and Newt both got rattled and Rick Santorum is so-so.

    Big question on marital fidelity. Oh boy.

  • trevorb

    I said Gingrich’s rise was not invincible. There are still three weeks and a lot can happen. Look how fast Cain crashed or Perry before him, although Perry is starting to rise up a bit.

  • Common_Cents

    nt

  • Xasteius

  • snowshooze

    nt

  • center77

    and he makes the case of Newt being unfaithful makes him a risky nominee. I know Newts supporters are angry, but this is important because character matters, Romney does not have a core.

  • tomatin

    If he’s the nominee Obama will thrash him.

    Newt on the other hand is bringing it.

  • Xasteius

    `

  • Xasteius

    .

  • Xasteius

    nm

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    Perry’s answer was terrific. “When I make a vow to God I’d suggest that’s even stronger than a handshake in Texas!” You can’t get much better than that.

  • tomatin

    Wow how times have changed.

  • Xasteius

    \

  • tomatin

    just saying

  • Xasteius

    90-=

  • tomatin

    terrible terrible terrible

  • Xasteius

    asd

  • pttx333

    nh

  • trevorb

    I was worried about a second that Perry would have another brain freeze, but he managed to get through that all right.

  • Xasteius

  • tomatin

    The others have nothing to lose.

  • Xasteius

    /’]

  • Xasteius

    [po

  • Common_Cents

    Good for him.

    Gingrich got things back on track on Palestine/Israeli

    perry correctly states it wasn’t a problem what Gingrich said about invented people, its the obama admin.

    Excellent.

  • pttx333

    .

  • Xasteius

  • snowshooze

    Anyone can debate Obama.

  • carolina

    knocked it out of the park!

  • tomatin

    Newt is knowledgeable and strong.

    Romney is just too weak if he can’t handle a GOP debate how is he going to handle our enemies.

    Perry is just not knowledgeable at this stage of his career.

    Paul is the worse by far of course.

    Bachmann again is not knowledgeable enough.

    Santorum just cares about our borders.

  • David123

    Palestinian issue and Obama mistakes in the Middle East.

  • snowshooze

    The two Moderators from the opposition are doing far better than I would have dreamed.

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    Perry just won the debate with the foreign policy answer. WHOO-HOO!!! I am having the best time tweeting and commenting on RS and HotAir. This is awesome!

  • bzip

    Boy Perry is hot tonight. He has made some excellent points but the last one going after Obama was great.

  • buddyp

    How amazingly stupid that ABC is going to ask the candidates when was the last time they had a financial strain requiring them to cut back on necessities like groceries. Unbelievably stupid and lame.

    Reminds me of when that idiot woman in the town hall style debate persisted in asking H.W. Bush how the deficit (she meant recession) hurt him personally.

  • Xasteius
  • pttx333

    Listening to the debate and reading the doings at RS. Our guy hit it out of the park, didn’t he? YEA for our side! And he was a gentleman to Newt when he did it!

    Wow – you’re over at HotGas, too? You’re a busy little bee, change, but I’m not surprised. That is just who you are – and with the youth to able to do so! HA ;-)

  • tomatin

    Perry doesn’t know anything about foreign policy.

  • trevorb

    would have to agree on that. That was probably Perry’s best moment so far. Still can’t believe Obama would be that stupid, but I suppose it shouldn’t surprise me at this point.

  • Xasteius

    You saw it here first.

  • center77

    well Romney says he was not poor but my dad was. lets me see that picture again of him and his Bain cronies holdingnthe money.

  • Xasteius

    I’ll even pay for your trouble.

  • snowshooze

    Error.

  • pttx333

    And, yes, b.o. IS that stupid! Bottom line, b.o. just doesn’t give a big rip!

  • buddyp

    When her husband is speaking and the camera is on her, Ann Romney needs to stop looking constipated.

  • pttx333

    ,

  • tomatin

    You fight for your convictions Romney. You tell the true that Israel is much more trustworthy than the Arabs whether it stings or not. We don’t need namby pamby policy in the Mideast.

    And Perry can attack Obama, the problem is Perry does not know why Obama’s policies are weak.

  • conservativemusician

    Gingrich roasted him on the Israeli/Palestinian discussion and Perry really got under his skin about the Romney’s continued support of the individual mandate. Classic blunder by Romney wagering a $10K bet with Perry with Perry just laughing it off.

    Overall, Perry doing pretty well overall. Hope it will be reflected in the post-debate polling.

  • pttx333

    batter Paul for many years! Lived in his district for a loooong time, and he is just the MOST pathetic excuse of a living, breathing human! Do you have a bat handy? Heck, no charge, X, I’ll happily do it for nada!!!

  • gekster

    are you.

    Just come out and say you hate Perry and get it out of your system. ;)

  • pttx333

    d

  • trevorb

    is doing quite well so far, and I’m leaning closer towards him. Gingrich… I’m very unhappy about some of his positions and one of the biggest is being paid by Fannie Mae. That’s rather difficult to explain away.

  • carolina

    first 3 debates.

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    I debated whether or not to join, but decided in favor of joining because I could combat all anti-Perry nonsense. They got some new pro-Perry blood in there and I think that should improve the atmosphere :D

    And yes, I did ask if the HotGas Perry Posse would stand with me tonight!

  • bzip

    Perry is really hot tonight, again out of the park with States Rights!

  • snowshooze

    Romney is still Romney.. Paul getting shots..
    Santorum, he isn’t bad.

  • pttx333

    there also. Gotta go fight the idiots where they mostly reside, huh.

    Hooray for you, sweetie! You are so loyal and faithful, and I appreciate that. Keep those qualities forever – but, then, I know that you will. You’re just that way.

  • conservativemusician

    Don’t like the pro-Perry posting here? Then go check out Hot Air, who have been very critical of Perry’s debate performances the last couple of months. They are very positive about Perry’s performance thus far.

    Agree with gekster. You are letting your anti-Perry bias cloud your judgement. You don’t like Perry. Fine, we get it, but give credit where credit is due. He looks very comfortable tonight and has had excellent answers thus far.

  • center77

    he has done more than almost any on that stage, he served for one, and second he leads national guard in his state. Now he has also traveled to other countries to get jobs back here.

  • Xasteius

  • David123

    how beneficial stable two-parent families are. Not the first time I’ve heard that divorce and out-of-wedlock births are major causes of poverty.

    Bachman supported Santorum’s point with a sad example from her own childhood.

  • buddyp

    Now ABC mods waste the rest of the debate on a group therapy psychobabble “can we all get along” question.

  • pttx333

    away taking payola from Fannie or Freddie. Just the very idea of “I’ve never been a lobbyist” but “I was a paid consultant” just doesn’t cut the mustard with me. But that is just me.

    My guy Perry is doing great tonight – poppin’ my buttons here! ;-)

  • David123

    a high-achiever who decays.

    I am impressed with Perry.

  • Xasteius

    Clever.

  • trevorb

    was my point. Gingrich has lost some real credibility with me tonight, so I think Perry may get my endorsement after all, but we’ll have to see. I noticed he abandoned the 11th commandment.

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    I’ve seen Marcus Bachmann, Callista Gingrich, and Ann Romney, but NO Anita. :( :(

  • pttx333

    in there until and unless she does for my choice, Perry!

  • pttx333

    and I agree with your words 185%! Thank you!

  • Xasteius

    *pound, pound, pound*

  • buddyp

    Imagine if Gingrich had Perry’s memory: He wouldn’t be able to remember his third wife.

  • pttx333

    a dummy, guess again! ;-)

    Woo Hoo!

  • papabear

    WTH – they voluntarily ran toward the hatefest!

    What happened to “Positive” uncle Newt???

  • snowshooze

    And strategically, that was a perfect answer.

  • pttx333

    can’t get it to compute in my head. Am I missing something here?

  • bzip

    It makes sense because Bachmann is trying to gain Cain supporters by talking about Cain – is sick and too obvious if you ask me.

  • Common_Cents

    too little, too late, already done.

    Gingrich maintained lead, may have improved lead

    Perry did well

    santorum did well

    bachmann ok until win-win-win

    RP was ok

    Romney got hurt- lunar what? he had a brain fart on differences w/ gingrich, the 10k bet was bad. I told everyone romney has a glass chin, and he showed it.

    moderators-epic fail

  • lucasblack

    Newt wins the debate by fending off the attacks.

  • ffritz

    Not really seeing this as “fighting” but more as actual debating. I think it’s refreshing that these candidates are finally able to debate with each other rather than stand on their individual soap boxes and give their views in an uncontested manner.

    I’m sure the moderators would love to see more punches thrown so they can get a boost in their ratings (because I don’t believe any of the “moderators” care a bit about what the candidates are saying) but to the candidates’ credit, they are actually debating issues.

  • Tbone

    Flames coming soon.

  • snowshooze

    But I was impressed all around with everyone else.

  • trevorb

    that we’re getting close to the primaries, I think who ended up getting hurt tonight was Romney and Gingrich, who usually emerge unscathed. Gingrich handled himself well, for the most part, but that support for the individual mandate is clearly is something people are concerned with.

  • snowshooze

    This was a good and necessary debate.
    I was impressed that Diane & George were actually quite professional.
    I figured they would all be about cheap shots.

  • ffritz

    Just ask the question Dianne, let the candidates answer. She prattles on so much that the original question gets lost.

  • bzip

    In my opinion which is biased:

    Winners:
    Perry
    Bachmann

    Losers:
    Romney
    Newt

    The intense fight, painting Newt and Romney as flip-floppers and progressives with everyone ganging up on Newt and Romney over:
    Mandates, Global warming and TARP is going to hurt Newt and Romney.

    It became very clear in the debate that Romney and Newt are not conservative (what was that 70% of the viewers wanted Newt and Romney to explain more in regards to their mandate position and neither did it well).

  • tomatin

    And is showing he knows much more about the substance of foreign policy than Perry.

  • pttx333

    a person’s record, but not attack/shred another personally. I didn’t hear Perry do that or did I miss something? How else to debate if another person’s record is really not so hot?

  • center77

    Romney had been shaken twice now by him, and Newt pretty much lied, but I am starting to think this may become a Perry and Newt race before everything is said and done.

  • Xasteius

    But that’s me.

  • trevorb

    was actually referring to Gingrich himself. He stated before the debate he would ignore it and instead he did the opposite. He even sounded a bit like a grumpy old man at first. I’ll have to watch it again, but I think Perry actually won tonight, with Bachmann in second place.

  • tomatin

    But it’s not a game changer for him. Too little too late if you will. The only thing that happened tonight is Gingrich is stronger and Romney is weaker.

    Gingrich just smoked Romney one on one and that’s what most GOP voters were looking at.

    If Perry does rise a little now it will be at Romney’s expense.

  • snowshooze

    But they did it in such a gutless way… they brought out an e-mail inquiry.
    I was wondering how that would go, they were to gutless to author the question.
    Really, cheap and seriously gutless. Look, we have this e-mail…
    So we have to ask…
    That was cheap beyond belief.

  • center77

    on this site

    http://www.timothy-bladel.com/2011/12/perry-romney-gingrich-who-will-stop.html#more

  • gekster

    Just come out and say you hate Perry.
    Excise the ghost.
    You will feel better.

  • conservativemusician

    The fact that Romney can’t get any higher support than he has now after 4 years of campaigning speaks volumes that the conservative base does not want him as the nominee – no matter what the GOP establishment thinks.

    It wouldn’t surprise me that if either Newt or Perry ends up as the nominee, then they would pick each other for the VP spot. I do think they genuinely like and respect each other and gave each other props at the debate tonight when Perry agreed with Newt’s Palestine position and Newt referenced Perry’s staunch support for the 10th amendment.

    Hope Perry gets the nod, but Perry as VP would also be pretty good as well.

  • center77

    I think since Perry was already trending up again he did himself some good, and its about getting voters to come out. In Iowa and NH its about having hard support, Perry has that and he will be trending, plus he did really good, twitter was all over his lines tonight. HE did himself a lot of good I believe.

  • pttx333

    nt

  • tomatin

    nt ntnt nt

  • snowshooze

    That is my impression.

  • tomatin

    nt nnt

  • Common_Cents

    Yet, there is plenty of perry supporter attacks on gingrich. Take out Romney first, then Perry/Newt can go at it.

    Perry looked much better tonight. I didn’t cringe once or have white knuckle syndrome.

    Maybe it was the grey goose ;)

  • tomatin

    slow and steady like the tortoise he is.

  • pttx333

    I missed that Newt did that. And he often sounds like a grumpy old man, so that is not new. Yep, I’ll be watching it again also. Seems one always misses several things the first time around.

    Of course, I’m biased, but I do truly believe that Perry won tonight. Bachmann lost me with the 999 vs. win,win,win, but it isn’t a big deal anyway.

  • buddyp

    Seems to me they all performed at their best. I guess practice helps at some point.

    I find it very hard to determine who probably “won” or “lost”. On the one hand, Gingrich defended himself very well against attacks. On the other hand, Perry may have won back some who worried he was incapable of getting through a debate well, Bachmann did fine as well and may pick up a bit (and I have to wonder if women are a wild card here, perhaps looking for something to tip them toward Bachmann), and Santorum, although lacking as much air time as the others, did well with his limited time and could pick up a bit in Iowa. And gains by those three non-Romney’s would come mostly from Gingrich.

    As for Romney, he did reasonably well, as usual, but no longer above the others.

    So very hard for me to say who benefited.

  • gekster

    your Perry hatred.
    Pot, kettle et al.

  • snowshooze

    now that the debate is over, would you care to expand on your comment?

  • trevorb

    I think the biggest loser tonight was Romney. I imagine he’s not used to the others piling on them. Usually, it’s just Perry and he’s gotten better at it.

    I’m trying to be objective, but I have my own biases. Even if he didn’t win outright, I think Perry is at least in the top two.

  • tomatin

    I really think this could end Romney tonight. Not the bet alone because he was by far the worst to me.

  • David123

    and Obama will lose any debates held with any of those four before the general election.

    Obama would probably lose a debate with Ron Paul, but Ron Paul would not make America much safer than Obama does.

    Romney might lose a debate to Obama, but even Romney would not lose decisively.

  • snowshooze

    And I was starting to think you were a foaming -at-the -moth Ron Paul nutjob
    Turns out you don’t even measure up to that level.

  • pttx333

    be? Should be on flyers and posters everywhere!

  • tomatin

    He did much better tonight I just thought that answer when examined was trite.

  • superpatriot

    Tried to form a bond with a concept and candidate who is out of the race??

    Not good.

    She will be gone after Iowa.

  • pttx333

    Romney, as it has been recently revealed, does not handle criticism well – at all. No difference there between Romney and b.o. My read on him is that he is a spoiled brat who has had everything handed to him on a platter, and he wants the presidency to be another trophy on his mantle(s). And folks just don’t like him – he’s never risen above 25% in any poll. He’s never been vetted before, and he “ain’t” taking it very well.

    Yeah, it is hard to be objective sometimes – that’s okay.

  • redmymind

    You are not biased! There are just some out there stuck in “neutral” and goin’ nowhere!!!

    Good to see you going on full after-burners, friend!

    Governor Perry SHINED tonight and came out the most presidential.

    BTW, . . . went to an office Christmas party today in full “Perry” attire:

    10 gal “Renegade” hat
    Black Dan Post cowboy boots
    “State of Texas” belt buckle
    Bolo tie

    . . . . but no horse. . . . just a high-mileage Impala!

    Go Perry!!! . . . Go pttx333!!!

  • superpatriot

    Gingrich countered and had an answer(except for individual mandate thing, which he answered on other occasions) for everything.

    I think he gave Romney a new mouth when he mentioned he’s not a career politician because he lost to Kennedey. Brilliant.

    But, folks, this is the man we need debating Obama next fall. It will be priceless.

  • Common_Cents

    this debate was set up to take Gingrich down. He came ok so it was a nice win.

  • David123

    We are not electing the president of the debate team; we’re electing the president of the country. Perry needs to be able to express himself adequately, and he certainly did that tonight. I’d give him an “A”, but even a “B” would be fine.

    We need someone who is competent at leading. Perry has shown he can lead – he’s led Texas well for 10 years.

    Obama has a very substandard economy to run on – and solyndra, and Fast&Furious, and Wright, and Ayers. If Perry runs a tough, honest campaign and tells the truth about Obama, Obama will lose.

  • Bill S

    As Erick points out on Twitter, our crack Redstate reporter, streiff, already exposed Romney’s cunning plan.

  • pttx333

    So what was the reaction at the office? Dang, can you post a picture here? I would LOVE to see that one! Woo Hoo and Yee Haw, Red!!!! You got it goin’, friend … keep up the good, good work.

    Love the high-mileage Impala part! There’s some horses under that hood, huh. Gotta burn that fuel cuz Perry’s going to crank up America’s supply and get us back to drilling again!

    Go RED!!!

  • trevorb

    no guarantee Perry will win, but his campaign is not done, despite what the media likes to say. Romney… I’m starting to think he won’t be the nominee, which I’m thankful for the reasons that were just described.

    Watching some of the scenes again, I would put Perry as number one tonight, with Bachmann and-sorry, guys- Gingrich tied for number two.

  • pttx333

    opinion, but (LOL) I do like that you put Perry as No. 1 … and you can vote for whoever you wish. I promise that no one will beat you over the head!

    Good for you, trev!

  • Common_Cents

    gee, wonder if that question was targeting gingrich LOL

  • tomatin

    That’s the point I was trying to make. All eyes were on Newt and he delivered. People forget voters don’t go into watching these debates in a vacuum. They know Newt is the new flavor of the month and this debate was going to validate his front runner status or he was going to melt down. Well I knew he wasn’t a wilting flower and would do well but that’s besides the point.

    I also think Romney falls further and this could be a slight opportunity for Perry to rise. But unless I see real movement in the polls, the race is what it is, between Romney and Newt.

  • trevorb

    thing I do know is that I’d better not inform my dad I’m leaning towards Perry, since he happens to despise him. can’t repeat the exact words on here, but I think he’s a Newt supporter.

    If Perry wins, I hope he’s ready for what I feel we’re going to face within the next few years.

  • snowshooze

    I can’t pick the winner.. but the loser was for all to see.

  • pttx333

    through the same thing back in the day. Voting age was 21 when I could first vote, and my first vote went for Goldwater against LBJ (despised the man!). Nearly everyone in Texas back then was very conservative Democrat, as were my folks. Well, you would have though that I had grown 3 heads when I announced my decision to vote Republican for Goldwater. However, there weren’t any repercussions for me, we just never discussed politics again, and I have always been a Pubby. And when they passed on, they were still voting for dems even though they were personally very conservative. I just never figured it out.

    Regardless of who wins the nomination, the dems/libs are going to try to gut him – won’t matter who it is. But I know in my soul that we will prevail – and I won’t falter in my stance. Go for what you know to be the right thing to do, trev.

  • trevorb

    this is going to be the ugliest, dirtiest campaign in american history. Obama wants to win even if he has to tear the country apart to do it. I think it’s going to come down to two states: Florida and Ohio.

  • snowshooze

    And not worry about win or lose.. We will win. But if we choose anything less than our best, we will have lost.

  • center77

    his due, the voters got a chance to see why so many on this site have been Perry supporters. This is the second time Perry has gotten Romney to say something really dumb. Perry had very good answers tonight, and the best partis he is being real. Newt was not telling the truth about a few things like the mandate and his usin ghis power to make money off selling information to the highest bidders.

  • snowshooze

    You have to actually win, lead, and win again…

  • pttx333

    wouldn’t even be above creating some sort of havoc to do it either. So it is going to take the very firmest, strongest patriot we have to combat b.o. and his minions. I believe that to be Perry since he just doesn’t back down. Can you imagine Romney or Paul doing that? Or Santorum either? Or some others? Personally, I can’t.

    It may very well be FL and OH who are the decision makers. I cannot see FL going for b.o., though – they’ve been electing conservatives like crazy. Good on them! Not sure about OH, but we shall see, huh.

  • trevorb

    won’t have to, considering what we still have to deal with, but he’ll take advantage and say it’ll all the republicans’ fault. I like Perry’s ideas and his debate performances are improving.

    This is an election we cannot afford to lose. I would hope that states that normally go for the democats will be, but we can’t count on that, and he’ll certainly get my home state of California.

  • center77

    because think it is Newt, but I do not think so, if you can twist the truth but then add some historic context to it, that does not make it a win, it make it a loss for the voters because they are sick of electing people who turn out to be something other than they say they are, Bush did this to the party and some did not think we would be back for years to come, but we got lucky because the American people elected Obama, but if we do it again I am not so sure we can come back as quick.

  • 1bunny

    ourTV went out. Doesn’t it know I need an oven: ) Now reading all the comments on here and on twitter. Evidently Bret Baier says Perry won. I am so happy that he did so well tonight. I feel our prayers are answered that he is improving in debates. Thanks to the Perry Posse for your positive comments. Do wish I knew what “he knocked it out of the park” referred to.

  • superpatriot

    conservative state. Except for last time.

    It’s very likely Ohio will go back to being a conservative state.

  • center77

    and the best thing is it was Perry who did it too Romney again, just like the whole not employing illegals because he was running for office thing. I think tonight Perry may have just ruined any chance that Romney will ever beat Obama. THe worst part is that team ROmney thinks it is a plus, and at one point it looked like Romney was goin got make it a bigger bet, he asked Perry about the number, Perry handled that well , and I think tha tmoment will have a larger affect than the Romney camp thinks.

  • onemovoter

    Over the last several months on all of his foreign policy statements. He has been leading on events even before they come out in the news. I’m surprised you haven’t seen that.

    I’ll admit that Newt ‘sounds’ knowledgeable and intelligent with fancy words but I’ve actually watched him on video over and over and find that he’s making up the stuff half the time and uses certain fancy descriptive words to make it sound like he’s saying something special. Sorry but BS will only take you so far, after that it takes management ability to be successful in government. Newt got thrown out because of his inability after getting in a power position.

  • trevorb

    went for Obama in 2008, Clinton in 1996, and Bush in 2000 and 2004. They could go either way right now. Next year…. if we win both Florida and Ohio, Obama will be a one-term president.

  • pttx333

    we MUST!

  • center77

    Newts baggage will not get glanced over by the media once Obama facing him, the left wuld love to run against Newt so they are just talking about it in limited terms just to soften the target upNewt would probably lose at least 40 states, and I think much of the people in the party know that. Newt can lie while the Republicans are the opponents, but when its Obama it will not be the same, All Newt does is answer questions with another questions and then adds some historic context to what he is saying.

  • center77

    what was helping Newt a lot was many of the people poll this last week had no idea the extent of his baggage, now they are going to have to go look at it, and think real hard. Newt has real soft supprt right now.

  • center77

    well that is news in itself

  • SoFiMil

    Perry will rise at Romney’s expense. Perry can’t go into first until he goes into second. Why do you hate him so? Why are you such a Debbie Downer?

  • redmymind

    In the words of country singer, Alan Jackson, I’ve actually “Gone Country” way back in the mid-90s. I feel very comfortable in said attire. I don’t always go to the office all decked up, but the hat, the buckle, and the boots are regulars. I actually use the hat a lot going out to the high desert, where it comes in quite handy. Yet, my most prized item? You’ve guessed it: the heavily oxidized, “seen some action”-looking “State of Texas” belt buckle with the Lone Star symbol. I’ve had it for years. Seems like the older it gets, the better it looks!

    Would love to share pics, but don’t have the “geekery” to make it happen here! . . . Having been at the same place for almost 11 years now, the folks who have stuck around with me have gotten used to my unique “RED” perspective at the work place and the “stage props” that go with it, hee, hee, hee!

    As for my Imp, it’s an ’02 with the mileage fast-approaching the150K mark. It ain’t the beast from the 60s the “Impala” moniker typically conjures up as far as imagery, but what I’ve got is a solid piece of American machinery and I intend to keep driving it and fixin’ it up as the years roll by. If the Perry Administration “neuters” the EPA, heck, I might just shove in a 454 and turn the darn thing into a rear-wheel-drive wonder! In fact, I have a pretty good feeling we’ll be havin’ this conversation again in 2012!!!

  • trevorb

    that we cannot underestimate Obama. If we run someone like Romney, we will lose. Thankfully, I don’t think he will be the one to win. It’d be nice if there was some hope for my state, but he will have it, no matter what.

    He’s guaranteed nearly 200 electoral votes; so are the republicans, so it’s going to be close.

  • gekster

    …

  • tomatin

    We need to establish a NFZ over Syria?

    I thought that was a big gaffe.

    I’m not picking on Perry but I just think Newt has superior foreign policy knowledge.

  • SoFiMil

    .

  • SoFiMil

    Good luck explaining to Jonathan Alter that there’s been a constant deluge of scandals in the Obama White House.

  • tomatin

    LOOK UP

    “Paul is the worse by far of course.” When I was evaluating each candidate on foreign policy. How on earth is this a pro-Paul agenda?

    I have often told Paulies that Ron Paul is incredibly wrong on foreign policy and going back to the gold standard for that matter.

    Ron Paul’s isolationism would cede the world to China.

    I can’t be more clear. Please attack me for what I say not for what you make up in your mind.

    My only “agenda” now is that I support Gingrich.

  • David123

    one, Perry, has executive experience, and three, Perry, Santorum, & Bachman, have not flagrantly violated their marriage vows.

    Nominating either Perry or Santorum will make Obama a one-term president. Perry will beat Obama like a drum.

    Obama might beat Gingrich by being “too busy” to debate him and having his lackeys go all-out negative on Gingrich for adultery, divorce, and impeaching Bill Clinton for lying about sex.

  • gator_hoo

    Jake Tapper reported that Perry was wrong, but I am having trouble seeing how.

    Perry argued that Romney deleted a line from his book saying that Romneycare could serve as a model for the country.

    The line that was deleted? “?We can accomplish the same thing for everyone in the country.?

    Ummm… So… Saying that the whole country can do what was accomplished in Massachusetts is not the same as saying that what Massachusetts did can serve as a model for the country.

    Does anyone understand this logic?

  • tomatin

    I said Perry did better. I was talking about one answer. Sue me.

    It still does not change my support for Newt and I don’t think it was a game changer for Perry.

    Boy you Perry supports are overly sensitive.

  • gekster

    from:
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2813102/posts

    excerpt:
    Perry took a lot of heat for ?bringing up? the idea of an NFZ for Syria. But foreign news agencies have been furiously reporting for nearly a week that negotiations are underway for such a measure. The plan, as sketched out to date, would involve Arab and Turkish air forces enforcing the NFZ, with the US providing logistic support.

  • buddyp

    …or at least tied for strongest (along with the fact that he’s spent most of his career in the private sector).

    He totally left out his strong point of executive management.

    I realize that’s relatively dull, and not as exciting as ideology, but he can present it as part of a package along with ideology.

    Romney should say something like:

    “This country has enormous challenges. Complex challenges. And we need a major change of course in a new direction to avoid very serious problems. Achieving that change of course will require a president who has not only the right ideas and philosophy and instincts, and not only the ability to communicate and persuade and lead, but also solid, effective management ability. I have that experience managing companies in business very successfully, taking over and successfully turning around the Olympics when it was in trouble, and as governor. That kind of management ability is going to be a key to achieving the kind of change we need. And it’s very different from being Speaker of the House or running a small practice consulting and selling one’s influence in Washington as Newt Gingrich has done. I am the only candidate who can bring the key combination of private sector insight for job creation, management ability from both the public and private sector, and the right ideas for the nation and the ability to communicate them effectively to the American people. If the next Republican president lacks any one of those strengths, we put at risk the change this nation needs so much.”

  • pttx333

    co-workers! They must be great to work with! Suppose any of them might know how to get your picture to RS? Maybe a techie that works there? Bet they would even take your picture. LOL Would just love it!

    So you’ve been a Texan for years, huh. That is good, and I know how those belt buckles are – they do improve with age with a great patina that enhances it.

    Nothing wrong with an ’02 Impala! I had one years ago and another one in ’98. And, no, the Impalas of today aren’t like the land barges long ago. In fact, all of the cars back in the day were land barges, usually with fins! ;-) But we really thought we were somethin’ anyway.

    Yep, we’ll be having this conversation for a long time, my friend. We’ll just keep on keepin’ on!

  • center77

    its because Perry really had the most to gain. Out of all the candidates Perry is the one most people wish would have been a better debater. Perry shot up to the top so quick but then became the target over and over again. Now Perry had more to prove than all the other candidates, and the last few debates Perry has shown a huge improvement. It?s because he is in his groove, and he is starting to get practice at the debates, he does not have to be perfect. So that?s why Perry gained the most, I think Newt did not get destroyed but a lot of Iowans found out stuff they did not know. Romney just added another nail in the box of nails that his coffin will be shut with.

    The rest of the field knew he would have run away with it if not for the attacks and then him making the mistake of using the word heartless. Even thought that quote was taken out of context just like the one about the supreme court (he said 8 because there are only that voted for the law that made prayer in school illegal, one voted against it) and the heartless comment was one where the words mattered, he said that if we say we should not educate these children just because of the sound of their last name, but it came off looking very bad. The establishment knew Perry was a threat so they use it to bash him over the head in order to make him look bad, they also kept saying Perry was against the fence instead of saying he is against the border being fenced the whole way. What they thought is that this would help Romney, it did not, the support went to Cain, then Cain got trashed, the support went to Newt, but this time it went in bigger numbers. Now the establishment understands they messed up because Newt would not only make us lose, he will hurt us down ballot, now we have the establishment once again saying nice things about Perry. Perry is our best hope.

  • tomatin

    Most of my comments are defending Newt or pro Newt.

    Please there is allot more Newt haters here but if you don’t genuflect to Perry you are dubbed a Perry hater.

  • center77

    and that is a power argument for Obama

  • 1bunny

    after I spent an hour searching for the tv warranty info and endless hold when calling them I found out it went out of warranty 1 month ago. The crazy thing came back on about an hour ago. I am tempted to never turn it off again. It seems to have a problem turning on, works fine once it’s on. Sigh… it’s Christmas and I didn’t want to buy a tv this year. I want my oven! I guess the good Lord is telling me to be happy with the oven I have that I don’t need a new fancy one because every time I have the money saved up I have to spend it on something else :) I guess the blessing is I have the savings even it I meant it for my oven. Look forward to your posting the video. May look for a repeat on tv and try to record it as it is late.

  • tomatin

    I would ignore what he says.

  • center77

    but this is why he is losing support, because people just have to go look at the book for themselves. This is nothing new for the meida to stick up for Romney, but on ABC.com they have the truth tha Romney would have lost the bet, and they have it on politico. This is false logic for anybody to say Romney did not say it would be a national model.

  • 1bunny

    on Twitter that’s what Bret said. I was suprised and excited to hear that. Don’t forget Perry will be on with Chris Wallace tomorrow. Wonder what he will say about the debate.

  • trevorb

    has made a big improvement over his previous performances. It’d be foolish to count him out entirely.

    Personally, i think he would have done better if he started off in 3rd or 4th position, giving him time to adapt. If he had the chance, he could have improved his debate performances, and gotten his message out without be hammered to the extent that he was. However, he jumped into front-runner status right now and I don’t think he was prepared for the barrage that he received.

    However, he’s getting another look, since Romney really didn’t do well and there are serious issues with Gingrich.

  • center77

    you say something that is not true. Newt is the king of twisting the truth, it is sad for the Republican party to have these two guys on top right now. Newt is said to be a great debater, but what is so great about twisting the truth then adding some historic facts to the thing, it just make sit a well dressed lie.

  • tomatin

    But Perry is playing with the house’s money right now because he’s the insurgent and Newt and Romney are the front runners.

    I would have to see if Perry could perform the same under fire from the other candidates to accept all the conclusions you make.

    It was very promising the way Perry took on Romney even though Romney’s been sliding recently.

    If he can take on Newt head to head with media scrutiny again is another thing.

    Now Perry supporters you should appreciate an honest assessment from someone who supports someone besides Perry. Because I’m the type of voter you need to convince to switch. In fact I’m telling you exactly what would make voters like me stand up and give Perry a second look.

  • 1bunny

    GOP debate: Newt Gingrich survives, Rick Perry and Ron Paul score. They were actually complimentary about Perry throughout the article.

    http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/12/10/gop-debate-newt-gingrich-survives-rick-perry-and-ron-paul-score/

  • tomatin

    This site kills my old eyes.

  • tomatin

    just saying

  • acat

    Jumping in at #1 had about 15 million reasons in its’ favor.

    (Perry raised a lot of money before his big fade…and can – if he can keep performing at this level – buy himself a shot at redemption)

    Mew

  • acat

    seemed to really get going when Perry first got under his skin over the hiring of illegals.

    Perry didn’t handle his time at #1 very well, it’s true . I’m hoping that, before March, we’ll see what he’s learned.

    Mew

  • tomatin

    You gave that answer last time but it still does not answer my question.

    I’m asking YOU if it’s a good idea for the US to establish a NFZ over Syria.

    I’m not asking you if Perry read that story or not.

    The other problem is that story is old not about a month old and the original source was from an American hating Muslim website so it has no credibility.

    Will you please answer the question I asked sir?

  • acat

    People enjoy bum fights and dwarf tossing as well …

    Mew

  • trevorb

    and he’s still receiving contributions, although not to the degree he did before. Soon after the primaries begin, I would expect it to make a real difference.

  • redmymind

    It was ONLY your officiating at my “Honorary Texan” event that made it “de jure” instead of just “de facto”!

    Love my co-workers. They’re terrific, self-giving folks. Some are highly talented shrinks. Others, like myself, are “down-to-earth,” “boots-on-the-ground” foster care social workers on the road most of the time. No “formal” dress code; just look human (which is just the right amount of opening I need to get away with my Texan stuff)!

    I’ll definitely follow-up on the picture THANG! Come to think of it, there is a geek that works in another company across the double-doors who routinely helps us with periodic upgrades to our systems. The darndest thing? We Koreans make most of these gadgets. Yet, “this one” seems to know close to nothing about using them!

  • tomatin

    Say Perry did know Obama was going to establish a NFZ over Syria with Turkey.

    Perry should have blasted Obama because it’s a stupid idea outright for the US to be involved in any way establishing a NFZ over Syria.

    Who the heck was Perry going to protect with a NFZ over Syria?

    So on every level whether Perry knew or did not know the answer was naively wrong.

  • tomatin

    That would give me something to ponder because Romney is a non starter for me.

  • tomatin

    You Perry folks don’t get it.

    You call me a Perry hater when I’m not by responding to me with Newt hatred.

  • pttx333

    I’ll bet you really were born in Texas and your folks have been keeping it a secret. LOL

    What a wonderful thing you do for a living, red! How interesting that would be, and I’ll bet everyone just adores you everywhere you go. Aren’t you glad you don’t have a formal dress code? I did for all the years I worked in downtown Houston, and the first thing I would do when I got home each day was start peeling off hose, shoes, jacket, etc. as soon as the door was closed! My natural self is sweats when it is cold, cut-offs and t-shirts when it is warm! LOL

    Yes, do follow up on that picture THANG for us. Yep, I know about the Korean do-dads, but I’m not very geeky either – had too many of those during the years I worked and they handled everything for us. However, I do have a Kia Sorento EX that I dearly love, love, love – 66,000 miles and nary a problem!

    Keep up the good work, Red – you’re doing FINE.

  • acat

    I agree that there’s not an apparent U.S. interest, but … it is in our interest to keep the Turks and the Saudis et al happy .. and if *they* think Assad has gone too far or that his iron-fisted approach is going to blow back on them then .. small price to pay.

    I don’t like the plan (I’m a Jacksonian) but I like that Perry’s aware.

    I also find that this pokes a hole in your “Perry is just not knowledgeable” argument. Please patch it instead of kvetching over the details.

    Mew

  • acat

    I think of it as Bush/Cheney on steroids.

    Mew

  • tomatin

    I would love to see if he can handle being one of the front runners again. But beating up Romney is kinda like beating up little sisters of the poor as my father told me.

  • tomatin

    no comment

  • gekster

    from:
    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/rick-perry-puts-his-foot-in-it-with-syria-answer.php

    Excerpt:
    ?Syria?s uprising is already the bloodiest of the Arab Spring and apt to turn into full-blown civil war, with a fair risk of spillover into neighboring countries. The longer it goes on, the greater the risk of it becoming a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia; even if Assad ends up being dislodged, there?s no telling how Iran and Hezbollah might lash out. Want to be in the middle of that, especially since Sunni hardliners are most likely to benefit if Assad is toppled? Also, bear in mind that most of the fighting in Syria is on the ground, not in the air, such that a no-fly zone probably wouldn?t help much unless we?re prepared to once again extend ?responsibility to protect? into an all-out offensive against the regime and its forces. And where would this no-fly zone be staged, exactly? Carriers in the Mediterranean? If you?re thinking Iraq or Kuwait, remember that the Maliki government has been notably warm to Assad even as other Arab states have distanced themselves.Maybe you could get Turkey to let us use their bases, but would Turkey want to end up on the wrong side of Iran??

    Make of it what you will, and as far as me, I ain’t running for anything so it wouldn’t matter as to my opinion.
    But I’m sure you will spin this so as to make Perry look bad on this.
    (since this is not was not part of the debate, I will quit my end of this threadjack)

  • acat

    collection of money and favors owed, owns the D.C. apparatus ..

    ..and you’re calling him an easy target?

    Some people just don’t get it.

    Mew

  • redmymind

    I am honored to have your friendship!

  • snowshooze

    Thanks.

  • snowshooze

    Send some back and call it even.
    No., I actually was surprised to see you making honest evaluations.
    Even if we fight tooth and nail, we are both against Obama.

  • snowshooze

    It was a huge shot at him23. I guess he knew well it was on the way.

  • pttx333

    suppose I could be an honorary Korean? I’m very fair with green eyes, used to be blonde till my hair turned silver and English/Scot heritage, but maybe no one would notice the difference. ;-)

  • pttx333

    suppose I could be an honorary Korean? I’m very fair with green eyes, used to be blonde till my hair turned silver and English/Scot heritage, but maybe no one would notice the difference. ;-)

  • snowshooze

    Babies grabbing keyboard here…

  • snowshooze

    In fact, they all did very well.
    Again, Romney stands the most to lose over this one.

  • tomatin

    that I was commenting in the context of debates.

    To put the onus on you do you really think conservative voters give a flip about Romney’s machine?

    As far as I can tell the more he’s been exposed as the establishment candidate the more it’s hurt him.

  • tomatin

    BARK!

  • tomatin

    I know organization and lack of money is his soft underbelly, his Italy if you will.

    So if he can’t keep up the Newtmentum he could fall like a rock.

    I sure didn’t see that in this debate though.

  • redmymind

    For all their drinkin’ and fightin’, Koreans are considered the “Irish of the Orient”. BUT, we’ll just have to widen that definition a bit so that you take primacy of place!

    It’s done then . . . by the powers vested in me (despite by gadget-proficiency deficient state), I declare you Honorary Korean . . . on the condition that you strongly denounce Kim Jong Il and his buddy, Mentally Ill! . . . No frozen cokes for these losers!!! . . . The only belt buckles they’d be wearing would read, “The State of Confusion”!

    Your hair’s fine.
    Your accent, . . . we can work on (not talkin’ about a Hyundai).
    Your eyes? . . . Color, fine. Shape, . . . you best keep what you got!

  • tomatin

    But he use to say the same thing about Koreans

    Obviously under guidance from the US, SK did turn around and is a little miracle of it’s own now.

    NK on the other hand is just a wasteland and shows how Communism is an utterly corrupt system.

  • tomatin

    You are setting up a strawman.

    You and I know a NFZ would do nothing to help them.

  • lizzie

    at the time of Perry’s debate statement on the NFZ. Two days later, J E Dyer, retired US Naval analyst post at her optimisticconservative blog, and cross-posted at Hot Air for about 36 hours, then, poof – gone.
    Here it is from JE Dyer’s own blog, most of it is about twhat was happening at the time, only the title notes Rick Perry’s prescience in knowing what was going on:.

    http://theoptimisticconservative.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/so-why-did-we-have-to-hear-about-a-no-fly-zone-over-syria-from-rick-perry/#more-2001

    Personally, I am still torn between three scenarios:
    1) using a Sunni crescent from Turkey to Saudi Arabia to contain Iran’s Shi’a crescent that hinges on Assad’s Alawites holding power in Syria and in Lebanon through Hezbollah. This includes the NFZ option; and is where Obama is tiptoeing

    or

    2) let it be so that Assad clings to power because 2.3 million Syrian Christians are allied with Assad and I do not want to see them fall to the same fate as Iraqi Christians and Egypt’s Coptic Christians;

    or

    3) let the Sunni and Shi’a kill each other as long as the Druse, Kurds, and Circassians stay safe. The Circassians are the only NOT-Alawite in Assad’s army that he trusts. Same goes for the Circassians in Jordan. and in Israel.
    I love the Kurds, Druse, and Circassians!

  • tomatin

    I’m not a rocket scientist on foreign policy but even I know it’s a terrible idea.

    Someone challenged me to find a gaffe Perry made in the last few debates and I did.

    It’s no huge deal to me but it was a stupid thing to say.

    For the record it was stupid for Newt to lie about his climate change past.

    I don’t view any candidate as being perfect but I also know a mistake when I see one.

  • gekster

    I’m posting it on the first comment so it is at the top.
    Thanks trevorb for the first comment.

  • pttx333

    wasn’t aware of Mentally! That works, though – love the names because they fit. They wouldn’t DARE to drink icy cokes! They starve their people and treat them terribly. A pox upon their houses!

    Okie dokie, so it is done and I am an Honorary Korean – thanks to you, Red! I can honk the horn on my Kia with more authority and wisdom now! YEE HAW! Uh, oh – is that permissible? ;-)

    Well, hon, I’ve earned every single one of those silver hairs, can’t do anything about my eyes, am still pretty small to be an old broad, but I’m not complaining if you don’t! What my beloved Mom always said is what I believe and live by – “What is, is.” How’s that for short and sweet?

    Oh, don’t do any drinkin’ (not opposed to it, just don’t like the taste or how you feel when your bones disappear) and I’m a sissy so don’t fight, but I can stand on the sidelines and cheerlead. How does that work for ya? Oh, and my late husband was half Irish, 1/4 Italian and 1/4 Yugoslav – how’s that for a combo? He was HILARIOUS and a good, good man. Could tell jokes with an Irish accent that kept everyone doubled over with laughter.

  • pttx333

    The Irish are great – feel proud!

  • tomatin

    It is a complex issue and Perry got caught in a trap the way he answered it.

    Logistically I think our hands are tied with most types of intervention including a NFZ. Sure we would have the support of the Turks but that still does not define the mission any more clearly.

    I do think you are overusing the term “let” though. It assumes the US can do anything about it. Sometimes we can’t or shouldn’t.

  • conservativeparrothead

    I’m sorry but Michelle Bachman just can’t deliver lines, they are clever, but she overuses them almost to uncomfortable levels where you start to get embarrassed for her. We heard newt Romney the first several times you said it, it’s like the one term president line she kept overusing. That’s what made reagan so great, the man could deliver a line to perfection. She needs to move along. Perry and santorum were excellent tonight. The 10k bet already hurting Romney in debate analysis. About time someone calls mitt on the career politician thing and how he wanted to be in government going back to 94.

  • pttx333

    the debate will now be able to do so. And I will view it again cuz I almost always miss something. ;-)

    Mom

  • redmymind

    His generous service is one of the reasons I get to enjoy my freedom here today, and I’ll never forget it!

    SK owes its very existence to the US. Folks of my parents’ generation understand that perfectly, having gone through that horrible war and having seen evil incarnate in these Norks.

    The newer generation? They take their freedom and America’s presence for granted! That does not sit well with me! I’m all for making SK a 51st state!!!

    Heck, . . . I might even run for governor, then!

  • pttx333

    b

  • tomatin

    I thought the way you described Korea was quite accurate.

  • lizzie

    even tho I missed the first 15 minutes – came online to find them, but ABC did not have the podcast up.

    Romney was soooo tense on almost everything, and I do not think he really understands “Leadership”, but that $10,000 bet will haunt him. Mormons do not gamble. And, why $10,000? Did that poll-tetst?

    Paul has been focussed lately on “Looking Presidential”, but if he gets real traction, the Conservative media will expose the dark sub-sets of his base – the WSJ is ready to do so if Paul gets more than 10% out of Iowa.

    Gingrich has a tougher prolem with his private sector millions than with his personal life.

    Perry was terrific, still working on how to cover for minor verbal mistakes. But, the wayhe handled that “invented palestinians” question was masterful – hopefully Haberman at Politico will figure that out by Monday (she was puzzled post-debate)

    Do not underestimate Rep. Steve King smiling openly when Perry addressed him. THAT was a very important camera shot.

    Bachmann did very well too.

    I still wish Santorum would remember that he lost his last election by 17% to Bob Casey..

    When i checked my email, the Perry campaign had a new 6:34 minute Youtube of veterans, Medal of Honor recipients talking about Presidential Leadership, with a one minute shorter version to run as an ad.

    I continue to wonder why Perry’s ad team uses angled shots, but I think the liberal wing of the media is now so crazed over Gingrich and the invented palestinians that will keep them busy for at least another week.

    BTW, Romney REALLY flubbed his response on that.
    PM Netanyahu is fully aware that the State of Israel has an official Youtube channel that clearly makes same point as Gingrich has.
    ,
    Here is the official channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/DannyAyalon?feature=watch

    In the second video, at the 48 second mark, MK Ayalon starts to make the same exact point made by Newt Gingrich:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&src_vid=QAuBc_cbXo0&annotation_id=annotation_153809&v=XGYxLWUKwWo
    ?Israel Palestinian Conflict: The Truth About the West Bank?
    July 12, 2011 ?Israel?s Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Danny Ayalon explains the historical facts relating to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The video explains where the terms ?West Bank?, ?occupied territories? and ?67 Borders? originated and how they are incorrectly used and applied?

    MK Ayalon?s newest #3 video is excellent at explaining the ?refugee? issue.

    BTW, Obama already made NEW YORK a Swing State.
    Voters: 13% Jewish (at least half NOT liberal); 49% Catholic (need motivation); and 19% Evangelical.

    Really do have take next week off from RedState.

  • tomatin

    during the Korean War.

    She was a code breaker. I loved listening to their war stories.

  • lucasblack

    Because he’s third in the polls? And second in many Iowa ones where the debate was held and is considered a serious candidate to win the caucus?

  • redmymind

    Nope, don’t drink or fight either. My poison is actually coffee! I think I drink too much of it on the road!

    My childhood and adolescent years were practically dominated by Irish priests. They took me under their wings and I managed to learn how to do a pretty good Irish accent in the process! They were very good and saintly men (albeit with a touch of their famous “Irish temper”) who worked hard to set me on the straight and narrow.

    “U Make Me Ill” works fine too! It still spells out . . . “Loser”!

    Glad to have you with us, Honarary Sister!

  • redmymind

    n/t

  • trevorb

    wrote an entire analysis on my own, though I’m not allowed to post a diary on here yet, although I’m hoping to be able to do so.

    I usually have to watch these twice just to make sure I get everything.

  • pttx333

    everyone. Don’t know of a soul who doesn’t enjoy the Irish. What a fascinating upbringing you must have had. And it is obvious that your parents are just wonderful! But do you know what? The only time that I ever saw my husband (a Marine at heart till he died) with an Irish temper was if/when someone insulted his loved ones in some way. Then he was very, very angry and could verbally cut one to shreds.

    Betrayal is my biggest bug-a-boo – I do not handle it well at all. Not that I have a fit or anything, the person who has betrayed me is permanently x’d out of my life. You know, like that old country song “When Your Phone Don’t Ring, You’ll Know It’s Me.”

    And on that silly note, I’ll bid you a wonderful and blessed “Good Night.” This old gal is whooped!

  • pttx333

    I don’t know the rules or requirements for posting a diary, though. Have never thought about posting one, but I’m so thrilled there are others who do.

    Yep, there’s always something missed in the first viewing!

  • center77

    lets them no we are taking action, then if more is need we do more, the very first thing we do is establish air superiority.

  • trevorb

    I’m just trying to figure out how to post a diary, but so far, no luck. I think it would be interesting myself.

  • romansdaughter

    Perry knows exactly what’s wrong with Obama’s policies and don’t kid yourself.

  • bzip

    A few early Rick Perry highlights from the debate last night. Rick Perry did excellent, he hit it out of the park on several fronts:

    Perry: Washington DC is the problem
    http://www.therightscoop.com/perry-washington-dc-is-the-problem/

    http://www.mrctv.org/videos/outsider-perry-washington-dc-problem

    Perry turns Israel argument back on Obama
    http://www.therightscoop.com/perry-turns-israel-argument-back-on-obama/
    http://www.mrctv.org/videos/perry-turns-israel-argument-back-obama

    Perry: Ron Paul got me interested in the Federal Reserve
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/11/perry-ron-paul-got-me-interested-in-the-federal-reserve/

  • romansdaughter

    I of course missed it all! I don’t have a TV down here in Brazil. So I will be waiting for your posts. Thanks for doing that!

  • nathanalbright

    …but this comment by Perry shows that he brought up Iran on his own, without prompting.

  • avagreen

    I thought I had the debate ready to be recorded. Much to my surprise, I didn’t!!!

    So, I missed the whole thing. I did the usual frantic search for any YouTube vids. Will be looking forward to whatever you can post.

    From the remarks, I missed a doosey of a debate from my guy! Darn! Double darn!

  • bzip

    Here is my more defined take on last night:
    Winner: Rick Perry
    Losers: Romney and Newt

    Here is why I think Romney and Newt were the losers (rest assured though the MSM thinks Newt was the winner so my opinions care no weight at all and clearly differ from the MSM):

    Both Newt and Romney were painted as progressives with their support of the mandate, TARP, etc. I give Bachmann (though all the candidates piled it on too) credit for painting the:
    Newt-Romney = progressive picture at the debate. That was a real hard hit on Newt and Romney.

    The pile on Newt last night only adds to the ongoing concerns that have been talk about and brought up since he became the front-runner. In my opinion Newt didn?t put those concerns away last night. Did Newt lose his cool and get frustrated like Romney ? No but I don?t call that winning either. Newt was painted alongside Romney as the two most progressives candidates and those concerns will continue onward. Newt?s extra martial affair was also brought up, front and center and I don?t think Newt put that away either ? it will continue to be a concern by voters.

    That is why I think Newt didn?t win and didn?t help himself much last night.

    Romney did very poorly. In addition to the Newt-Romney story painting each the same, each progressive we can add on the ?10K bet? Romney made ? that was a big gaffe from Romney painting him way out of touch and frustrated by Rick Perry attack.

    I firmly believe Romney is going down, he has been going down and last night made it worse. Perry will rise from the concerns of: Romney and Newt.

    Bachmann did well but in my opinion she blew it with making a very obvious and sick ploy for Cain?s supporters. She had hammered Cain on the 999 plan in the past, now she brings it up as a great plan – making a clear play for his supports; I thought that was rude.

    The big winner: Rick Perry he took it to Obama, he took it to the media and he took it to Romney. He had a wonderful night showing that he can not only debate and that he has improved BUT made some wonderful points and jabs.

  • avagreen

    someone remind me ……..why is sawyer even on the air any more? Obviously pandering to Romney.

    Fluffy ruffles reporter. Can’t believe I used to hang on her very word, but even then I thought “lightweight” and superfluous

  • bzip

    Obradovich: Romney bet was one of his worst debate moments
    http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/12/10/gop-debate-newt-gingrich-survives-rick-perry-and-ron-paul-score/

    Yep, it appears others see Romney’s bet a major gaffe from last night. It also looks like in this article that Perry got a lot of credit from his debate last night

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    Perry won hands-down, and I’m not just biased–he’s getting rave reviews for his performance. Bachmann won second. I really enjoyed most of what she said; she got a little under my skin for bringing up 999 over and over again, but she made NewtRomney squirm something awful. They were definitely the biggest losers, Romney especially–he looked like a fool more than once. Santorum and Paul were so-so, the usual. Had to facepalm a couple times with Paul. What a shame…if he didn’t have that foreign policy crazy button he’d be much better.

    Perry won with all his answers. He did fantastic with Romney and went after President Zero full throttle. Also liked how he complimented Paul at the end.
    SO glad he’s been using Paul’s material concerning the Fed!!! That’s Paul’s best point, IMO. All in all, I slept REALLY well last night. Secretariat Perry is on a roll!

  • jrfromdallas

    We’ve been waiting for this version of you to show up. I hope that you get the jump in support that you deserve and win Iowa. I am pulling for you and hope that other people are willing to give you another look.

  • paladin1

    the debate last night. He was poised, articulate, and on point without overdoing the soundbites and talking points. It seems his debate prep people have listened, learned, and moved him on to much more substance in his answers.

    He did not allow himself to pile on to Speaker Gingrich when the discussion of the Palestinian question was in play. He made it clear that he did not think it was an important criticism of Gingrich and then went on to eviscerate the Obama administration for its clumsy and disjointed Middle East policy.

    He also was very firm but respectful with his answer to the question of marital fidelity. He made his position clear without accusatory language and with no reference to Speaker Gingrich. His refusal to make a personal judgment on Gingrich but to let the voters decide the merits of infidelity and its relationship to elected office was well played.

    Governor Perry showed himself to be adept at providing an answer to a question posed and then moving on to speak on the larger issue in a much smoother fashion than he has shown in previous debates. He has obviously much improved his debate skills and clearly demonstrated that his ability to get under Romney’s skin is still very much in evidence. I believe his ability to get Romney to become flustered and slip up, as he did with the bet challenge, was a very smooth play and damaged Romney tremendously, both in Iowa and in the long term. I believe Romney is on the way down and cannot endure many further gaffes of this type. Governor Perry set the knife in place for the Bachmann thrust of Newt Romney home with his successful attack on Romney as the big government health care provider in Massachusetts. Romney has been successfully painted as a progressive northeastern out-of-touch Establishment RINO and I firmly believe this is fatal to him. Gingrich was also damaged by Bachmann’s attack but I think Perry was wise to avoid entering that fray, and staying on Romney to finish him off while waiting for others and the media to soften up the Speaker before turning to that challenge.

    Throughout the debate, Governor Perry received consistent applause at the conclusion of his statements; more so I believe than any other of the candidates except possibly Ron Paul, who seems to hold some spell over his small but very vocal support system. Perry’s nod to Rep. Paul as being the person who got him interested in fiscal policy was classy and gracious. I think he rightly sees Paul as not being a threat and recognizing that it would be a waste of effort and good will to do so.

    Overall, it is clear that Governor Perry won the debate last night. It is possible that Gingrich, as was previously said of Romney, was a co-winner because he did not suffer any major damage but, as with Romney, that strategy will not prove to be ultimately effective. I am very hopeful for Governor Perry in the upcoming Iowa caucus; Iowa is made for his brand of retail politics and that, coupled with his effective ads and his growing ground team there (kudos to center77 for his work!) will be the recipe for a surprise as he continues to make good use of his skills in this area. I would not be surprised to see him finish in the top two when the dust has settled.

  • APA Guy

    Gingrich needed only to survive the first debate after the minor firestorm over his front-runner status, personal indiscretions, etc. He did that in fine fashion.

    I thought Perry looked presidential for the first time last night. Rather than shoot for the quick jab or soundbite, he took the high road on Gingrich while simultaneously allowing Romney to make an a** of himself.

    I am beginning to think that when the dust has settled, Gingrich and Perry just might join forces to produce a strong GOP ticket.

  • paladin1

    I was incredibly amused watching Romney and Gingrich try to personalize and optimize their relationship with Prime Minister Netanyahu. As they went back and forth, falling all over themselves to emphasize their individual relationships with him, I was surprised that they both referred to him as Bebe, as though he was a hunting buddy (oops, forgot neither one of them likes guns) and not treating him with the respect due as the Prime Minister of the State of Israel. Not a good play on either man’s part, in my opinion.

  • paladin1

    on Romney is to finish him off once and for all. There are others attacking Gingrich right now but Romney is still wobbly but standing. Never leave an enemy standing.

  • bzip

    Mitt Romney Offers Perry a $10K Bet
    http://youtu.be/4laRUcuYXmY

  • paladin1

    assessment and your frank approach. I also appreciate a wee dram of your namesake!

  • Ausonius

    Running for president for how many years now, 6 at least, and he cannot crack one-third of Republicans???

    It seems that he cannot and will not seal the deal with Republicans.

    Perry, Gingrich, or an as yet unchosen candidate will be the nominee.

  • izoneguy

    The MSM just cannot get him over the finish line…..

    I loved Newt’s attack line on how Romney “wanted” to be a career politician but lost a few elections along his way to this next failed one.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    is that he has decided that Perry has the best chance to make a comeback and so he wants Perry dead and out by the end of the Iowa caucuses.

    Romney’s only hope is that Gingrich self-destructs and Romney EXPECTS Gingrich to self-destruct, fall apart on the three marriages issues. So Romney’s goal is to be the only guy available for people to run to.

    He’s not worried about Ron Paul because Paul’s foreign policy will do him in. He’s not worried about Bachmann or Santorum because they don’t really have a political record to run on.

    But Perry has great retail politics, a great retail plan (traveling to every Iowa county), and a great political record (governship, job creation, lower regulation) to run on.

    So Romney has to try to make Perry stumble now and not do well in Iowa.

    If Iowa finishes with Gingrich 1st and Perry 2nd then it puts Romney in a position where he could win New Hampshire and then lose again in South Carolina.

    If Perry finishes second, he could get a good look by South Carolinians and perhaps finish FIRST in South Carolina.

    And if Perry does well and Paul holds onto his Paul-bots then maybe it does go to a brokered convention and Romney knows he’s never going to win that.

  • Common_Cents

    and he did advance himself a bit.

    Yes, Perry did pretty well, but if 2 moderators and 5 other candidates focus on Perry for most of the debate, he’d not do well.

    Perry copied Gingrich when he stepped in and defended gingrich and reminded us the fight is with obama. Credit to Perry for recognizing Newts big picture.

  • acat

    we’re both looking through a scanner darkly.

    That said, your position appears reflexively anti-Obama. Explain how you know that the Turks and Saudis etc are wrong on this.

    Mew

  • acat

    I hesitate to claim you’ve moved goalposts, but …

    Mew

  • acat

    Lack of boots-on-the-ground organization is one.
    Lack of money is another.
    Questionable past record is a third – both maritally and “plays poorly with others”.

    Voters aren’t pure, they won’t vote along nice, neat, ideological lines. Had a relative brag about “voting for all the Irish-sounding ones” once. I’m sure O’Bama would have been close enough….

    Newt is great in debate. Hands down the best we’ve got. I’d pay good money to watch him rhetorically demolish Obama. Most voters, though, aren’t going to be motivated by his debate performance…. unless, of course, he decides to run for Senate.

    Mew

  • acat

    does not allow for the long and detailed answers you want.

    You appear to be busy trying to punish the guy who got the facts right because of the format.

    Mew

  • acat

    Other than reflex-anti-Obama, why is it terrible?

    Why do the Turks and Saudis etc want to put in no-fly zones?

    Do you really know?

    Mew

  • ceili_dancer

    …

  • Scope

    Common Sense? Not so much.

  • Scope

    debate highlight has been played about 10,000 times already. The Romney camp said that Perry would have lost the bet if he took it, even though it is so very provable that Romney did in fact remove the sentence from the hard edition to the paperback. A Romney bird is on Fox now saying that Perry would have lost the bet, and Perry knew that so he didn’t take the bet. These idiots are trying to take the bet itself off the minds of people, but are only making it worse. Too too funny.

    Another highlight I’m seeing frequently is when Ron Paul brought up Gingrich’s time taking money from Freddy Mac, especially when Paul said Gingrich was taking our taxpayer money.

    John Bolton was on Fox this morning and said almost the same thing Perry said last night. We should have tried to destroy the downed drone in Iran before they got their hands on it. Bolton said that Obama’s excuse that it would have been seen as an act of war was weak and useless.

  • Common_Cents

    It was 2 mods and 5 candidates against Gingrich, 7 on 1, and he did well.

    I recall Perry collapsing like a house of cards when he was the target months ago.

    Perry had some good input but if the spotlight was on him, it’d be a different story. That goes for any of the other candidates.

    Perry copied Gingrich’s schtick of refocusing on obama and defending newts palestine comments, classic gingrich statesman stuff. Good for Perry.

  • aesthete

    Sorry, folks, but Syria is not Libya: opposition to Assad is scattered, unarmed, unorganized, and has not taken any territory for itself. The country itself is more difficult to establish a NFZ over than Libya. Then there’s the question of why we should do such a thing without knowing what the opposition wants… those are just the basics for why it would be a bad idea — not as bad as Libya, but definitely not well-thought out.

  • Scope

    Beach balls cannot lift 100lbs., then again he has been lifting a lot of weight carrying around bleach bottles, and cans of hairspray for exercise.

  • romansdaughter

    This is why for me I don’t worry about Perry debating Obama, cause I see some similiarities between Obama and Willard they both seem to feel entitled, no one should deign to question them, and give phoney laughs when they get nervous. I can picture the same thing happening when Perry goes up against Obama. Obama blustering and giving a phoney, condescending laugh and then winging out with some silly retort that says it all…”I can’t have illegals working for me, Pete sake I’m running for President-” and ‘I will bet you 10,000 dollars.” CNN has just come out with an article trying to pump up Willard on the debate last night and I giggled at the understatement that he had a few minor mistakes but came out on top. What debate were they watching??

  • Common_Cents

    Keep up the immature stuff. President Gingrich will thank you!

    Call Gingrich fat, that is super intelligent and wise. hehe

    What’s even better that makes you look real adult is attacking a candidates wife.

    impressive!

  • tomatin

    nt nt nt

  • gator_hoo

    Obama is very thin-skinned. I think he would get angry very early in the debates, get off message, and we all know what happens when he gets off-message.

    I think Newt might be able to do that, but Newt will find it hard to hit his weak spots: the mandate, housing, the energy moratorium.

    Mitt will be another McCain: Well, Obama would be great, but isn’t it time for another rich, white guy in office?

  • bobguzzardi

    As more and more people got to know him better and better, Rick Santorum got fewer votes.

    Rick Santorum teamed up with Arlen Specter and the Unions to defeat Pat Toomey in 2004 and his true orientation became known Big Government Bush Establishment Spender and Borrower.

  • bobguzzardi

    Am I correct that Mitt Romney lied? Rick Perry, expertly, in one line, skewered Mitt Romney who tried to bluff his lie.

    Is there any doubt that individual mandate is in first edition? Mitt Romney ‘s strength had been his boy scout image and, now, even that is gone thanks to Rick Perry.

  • bobguzzardi

    Rick Perry tells the truth with facts and common sense ; Barack Obama spins rhetorical fantasies. Reality wins.

  • center77

    the truth out there, it was never about anything else. Mitt Romney and his team will try to spin the lies over and over again, but for people like us it is important to be there and get the information out when the lies are said. Romney and the establishment know that a certain amount Of people will not do their home work, so if they are the ones who watched the segments where Romney lies, they may end up with the misinformation in their head, and that’s the only thing they can do. Now if Romney wants to really win, he is going to have to stop that, these days information travels to people without the news, so He has that problem.

    The simple truth is Perry was right, and that’s all that matters.

  • Common_Cents

    He had a perry/cain brain fart when mods asked him what differences were with gingrich. He froze up and came up with lunar mining? LMAO.

  • romansdaughter

    Not a good night for Romney. I hope he goes bye-bye.

  • Xasteius

    I’m thinking that ticket would really blow some establishment gaskets.

  • Xasteius

    “That’s an excellent question, Mr. President. I tried to (insert the issue here) for three years as governor, but you and the Democrats in Washington have blocked, discouraged, and stalled every attempt I’ve made to enable people to succeed. As president I will make Washington as inconsequential in the everyday lives of Americans as is in my power so they enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I will turn power back over to the states so they may experiment as to which policies work the best for their citizens.”

  • acat

    a fire kindled to hold the candidates’ feet to.

    With Romney, we’d need quite a bonfire…

    Mew

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …based on having reviewed everything everyone has written, here and elsewhere.

    First, it’s clear that Mitt has accelerated his slide; it’s difficult to imagine that he will be more than an [" * "] by the end of January. His feet are made of clay, and he epigomizes the “Wall St. vs. Main St.” metaphor.

    Second, everyone else did well, in their own ways. This is an important consideration, particularly with regard to the need to keep Paul within the GOP universe…lest he go 3rd-party.

    Third, the friendship [Perry's intro composed by The Newt] echoed, despite the somewhat critical assessment of fidelity of the former regarding the latter; the comment supra that we are potentially dealing with a “Bush/Perry on steroids ticket [Perry/Gingrich] may appear apt.

    Fourth, one can predict a low-key Monday discussion [The Newt and Huntsman] and, therefore, any discussion here must be provisional…because the FNC Debate is pending [prior to the movement of the discussion behind the moon...during the Holidays].

    Fifth, assuming Mitt has a problem tactically [will he attack to regain dominance...and risk another slap-down?] and everyone else continues to maintain a strong sense of positivity, the prospect exists that the rise of The Newt could suppress Bachmann/Santorum to <10%…yielding their inability to maintain presence in the race.

    Sixth, even if Mitt is able to survive as the Establishment-Candidate [due to $/endorsements], the race becomes focused between The Newt and Perry; this is just fine with me, for reasons that will be detailed.

    Seventh, these two guys could create a pact that the delegate-winner would choose the delete-follower as Veep [even if it's relegated to "a warm bucket of spit"].

    Eighth, The Donald was probably deferred by Perry for two reasons; first, prep and delivery would have eaten into his bus-tour and, second, he probably felt he wouldn't be chosen. This latter point is reminiscent of why Mitt is in trouble, because he decided to try to KO everyone in Iowa; this could prove to be his Waterloo #1 [with NH following shortly thereafter]. Similarly, Perry cannot feel too badly if The Donald doesn't choose him if he hasn't been perceived as having courted this support. {Yet, he was probably super-polite so that The Donald could ultimately support him anyway, if The Newt falters.}

    Ninth, KO'ing Mitt [who has spurned the TEA Party Movement] is just-desserts; he has acted "Holier than Thou" and, candidly, if there is ANY anti-Mormon feeling [I learned a week ago that Jesus was supposedly the son of a human, Elohim, on RS], this risk is neutralized [secondary-gain] if raised by BHO. {This is a "handicapping"-related comment, not a values judgment.}

    Tenth, therefore, if this becomes a competition between Perry and The Newt, the issue of the Individual Mandate could tip towards the former, without hurting the other potential support from the latter; although I have exhaustively detailed the other problems with The Newt on RS, his strong support for truth-telling in the Middle East is quite telling.

  • bobguzzardi

    Obama campaign, clearly, with run an Alinsky Have Nots v. Haves Class Warfare campaign. Rick Perry is the near perfect candidate to counter that charge.

    Mitt Romney’s mansions, Wall Street connections, and condescending patrician attitude will sell.

    Newt Gingrich is rising as the anti-Romney and after Iowa, where he will, I hope, do well, he will have served his purpose and deflate.

  • snowshooze

    If Obama goes after Gingrich on personal points…

    Will Newt send it back? Attack the man with no history?
    School records, scores, degrees, upbringing…
    Maybe Obama would think twice about that can of worms.

  • acat

    somehow qualifies as “executive experience” now?

    Mew

  • acat

    Unfortunately, the last I’ve heard is there’s a glitch preventing new diarists.

    Mew

  • Xasteius

    Checks and Balances in the truest sense of the word…and hopefully some reform will get done.

  • superpatriot

    Newt does’nt have to look very far to go after Obama.

    I mean, the man spent more federal funds than any other president combined.

    This, combined with the job situation, will be more that enough to discuss.

    I think american people already know about Newt’s past and are more interested in fixing our country.

  • superpatriot

    Newt’s doing really well in Florida. And not to jinx us, but I really can’t believe the older folks and hispanics in Florida supporting Obama.

    Anyone know how Newt is doing in Ohio???

  • Scope

    If anyone had any doubt before last night that Romney is a clear and true Wall Streeter, it wasn’t only dispelled by his offer to Perry of a $10,000 bet, but it was even more obvious when he said that he didn’t grow up poor, oh but his dad did, which did not remove the silver spoon from his mouth.

    I’m unclear of exactly what kind of fundraising Newt is experiencing, but from what I’m reading he is having to use some current funds to pay off early campaign debts. We still read that some big donors are still sitting on the sidelines. We know that most of the Washington elites, other than a small handfull, are not backing Newt. I seriously doubt he is getting any Washington PAC, or committee monies. How far can Newt go with a lack of funds to carry him further than Iowa, if he even wins I, simply on a wave of popular support. I agree with some article I read which said, right now Gingrich is gaining support mainly from the media. The media can take you down just as quickly as it can help your rise. It appears the media has realized it built a Frankenstein, some claiming it was done in the Fox lab. That is surely reversing as we speak. Newt is not a candidate that is capable of being a nominee based on a national wave of popular support. His record is way too long, and his wordsmithing is becoming much more obvious and apparent.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …and your observations are not inconsistent with my viewpoint.

    It may very well be possible that The Newt could quickly fade, except for the “exhaustion” factor; people may wish to alight for a bit longer to detect a comfort-level…before migrating to Austin.

  • center77

    but I am having trouble think that it is not going to be an issue in the gen election. The mandate is off the table really, and many otehr things will be, the elction wil be about character because most of the media wil make it about that, and New twill lose that battle, this is just how I see it, I am having trouble not seeing him as a weak candidate. Now the one issue that really make it hurtful is we will not have the upper hand on the insider establishment issue. If Newt is the nominee, we can not talk about the culture of corruption tha this Washington, because Newt has spent his years getting rich from it, sure we can try to talk about it, but we will be really weakened. All we will have is that our candidate is a good debater, but I am not even sure about that, it depends what good is.

  • avagreen

    call Newt a “truther” and dismiss him then and there, with all the visions of lunacy this phrase has had built into it by the MSM (and o’s hatchet people).

  • carolynr

    Yes…Mitt Romney lied…AND HE WOULD HAVE LOST THE BET. His bluff did not work. I wish I had the exact words that were removed form Romney’s book..No Apology…the title says it all…but I digress. The deleted sentence said something to the effect that this model would be a good choice for America. While the press is making a big deal out of Perry’s oop’s moment…what about people that don’t even know what they wrote or took out…how’s that for OOPS?

    Yes BG…this was a lie. To brighten your day further….Perry, on FNS explained to Wallace, who was clearly trying to embarrass him, that Romney’s assertion that Perry’s mandate (as if that were already law) of 6th grade girls had an opt out and was never passed by the Legislature. Perry said that they were right in their decision and it was not law. On the other hand…Romneycare is law.

  • carolynr

    OK…don’t get mad…I still love Perry. I think that Paul might be the winner in Iowa…only for his loyal supporters. He is too far of the mainstream on foreign affairs to up against Obama. We’ll see what happens with Perry and Gingrich. I think Gingrich will come in second and Perry third. Now…I will discount Paul’s win entirely…because he won’t come in that high anywhere else. Now it is Gingrich and Perry. Here’s the million dollar question…and it does come down to money…Gingrich endorses Ethanol subsidies…Perry does not. There where the matter lies. I agree with Perry.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …and don’t forget the Individual Mandate!

  • snowshooze

    If it turns out to be Obama Vs. Gingrich, And Obama get’s dirty… Newt will pull the stops. We will see Obama’s college scores, we will hear every rotten thing Obama ever did. Newt will write a book full of it.

  • snowshooze

    I mean, well… you go around buying companies, stripping out the assets, laying off the work force and selling off the rest…
    That isn’t exactly a shining example of success to a lot of us.
    And those details never seem to come up.
    I spent most my life in the pirate business…ha.

  • center77

    all the stuff you named did not work when we used it when Cain was or nominee, it won’t work now. I think a character battle with Newt and Obama is one Newt loses badly, even if I think Obama has a past of being as Chicago hack.

  • David123

    At least that’s what 52% of the people thought in 2008.

    If character didn’t sink Obama in 2008 when he was running against a war-hero, I wouldn’t bet the farm on it sinking him in 2012, especially against Newt.

    Furthermore, Obama, himself probably won’t bring up Newt’s character much. He’ll depend on other Democrats and the MSM to do the dirty work.

    Who hurt Sarah Palin more, Joe Biden or Katie Couric?

  • 1bunny

    the passage that was in the hardback but removed in the paperback.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/66081535/Romney-Deletes-Romney-Care-Reference-From-Book

  • buddyp

    I agree some will see it that way, but I think it would be useful for a president to have the ability to spot inefficiencies and opportunities to reallocate resources for greater economic value.

    As for Romney’s experience, my understanding is that he played a major role in the progress of Staples, which seems to be employing a lot of people and adding a lot of economic value, and he also turned around the Winter Olympics when it was in trouble.

    And although I’m no expert on his record at Bain, I’m assuming Staples isn’t the only example of a company he helped improve.

  • David123

    “Sometimes, to turn a company around you have to have lay-offs. To turn America around we need lay-offs too – we need some pink slips for some folks at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue pretty desperately.”

    :-)

  • buddyp

    I must say (again), women could be a wild card in both the primaries and (if Newt is the nominee) the general election.

    Although I acknowledge not much was made of McCain’s apparent cheating on his first wife and it didn’t seem to be a factor (as far as I know), I find it hard to dismiss the idea that a large portion of women will have a problem voting for a guy who cheated on his first two wives and “traded up” so to speak.

    I think it’s a major risk. And on the one hand, I would think it could hurt Newt more in the primaries among Republican voters due to more conservative mores. But on the other hand, I think the faith of many Republican primary voters is conducive to forgiveness and the concept of redemption, and also there are other major factors (reasons to dislike Romney or to question Perry’s ability to beat Obama) that could override the infidelity factor, and these are factors that won’t matter to swing voters in the general who will probably determine the outcome.

    So again, Newt’s infidelity baggage is a major risk in the general. And coupled with the ethics violations, the K Street lobbying (even if not technically “lobbying” in legal terms), it could lead many general election voters, particularly women, to see him as too sleazy to vote for.

  • superpatriot

    As a previous redstater pointed out, if Newt wins Florida, Ohio, and the rest of south, he’ll beat Obama.

    And yes, Newt will bring up everthing about Obama and his relationship with Reverend Wright and his phony birth certificate.
    And there is nothing really new on Newt.

  • superpatriot

    As a previous redstater pointed out, if Newt wins Florida, Ohio, and the rest of south, he’ll beat Obama.

    And yes, Newt will bring up everthing about Obama and his relationship with Reverend Wright and his phony birth certificate.
    And there is nothing really new on Newt.

  • David123

    McCain divorced once, after many years in prison, and remarried once. Gingrich did it twice. Also McCain’s marriage was stressed by his long POW status in a way most marriages aren’t.

    McCain’s divorce and remarriage were private, non-political actions. Gingrich was cheating on wife #2 with the woman who became wife #3 while he was impeaching Clinton over Monica Lewinsky. It is very easy to charge Gingrich with being a hypocrite, and hard to refute the hypocrite charge.

    As for Democrats bringing these things up, Gingrich as nominee would be an extremely tempting target in a way McCain was not. McCain ran a “gentlemanly” campaign, and if Obama went scorched earth on him, he risked McCain going scorched earth back with Wright and Ayers. The Democrats went scorched earth on Palin instead.

    The Democrats have already gone scorched earth on Gingrich in the 90′s so it would be easy and tempting for them to do it again. Plus they probably figure that Gingrich will go scorched earth on Obama so why hold back. Furthermore, many of Obama’s other opponents have been attacked for sexual problems. If Obama can’t win on the merits of his policies he’ll try to win using scandals of his opponent.

  • buddyp

    Fair point re: McCain and the stress of being a POW.

    Re: “the hypocrisy charge” against Newt, I agree some might see it that way, but if you’re speaking of the impeachment (as opposed to some moral condemnation of Clinton by Newt, which I don’t know of occurring), that was, of course, for perjury (by whatever name), not for cheating on his wife, so no hypocrisy. And I think many people will understand and appreciate that distinction, although again, I agree some will not.

  • snowshooze

    But the day inand day out work was find companies in trouble, evaluat their assets, buy them, part them out..

  • David123

    However, it’s very easy to spin it as hypocrisy.

    Considering all the ridiculous things the left blamed Sarah Palin for, calling Newt a hypocrite will be much less of a stretch for them.

    And once you’ve gone through the explanation as to why Newt really isn’t a hypocrite, you’ve still spent quite a bit of time discussing his adultery – charming.

    Don’t you remember, it was all a vast right-wing conspiracy led by Newt Gingrich to bring down Bill Clinton?
    :-)

  • buddyp

    fair point

  • acat

    One would imagine that, if they thought they could get traction, they’d do so.

    I’m left assuming you’re right (and Romney has hired idiots to run his campaign) or he’s right (and .. nevermind)

    Mew

  • acat

    You really can find anything on the Internet

    perhaps Mitt should run as a pirate. Or .. at least as a swingin’ corporate raider…

    Mew

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    http://www.deadline.com/2011/12/abcs-presidential-debate-draws-7-6-million/

  • snowshooze

    I dunno how you do it.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

  • acat

    And a little luck. I just put in “Mitt Romney Pirate”, and this came up.

    If you dig around on the internet, you can find just about anything. Even really spicey chicken.

    Mew