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White House Expedites Wind Farms; Stalls Drilling

Interior Secretary Salazar has decided that America has serious energy needs – needs which must be addressed through an emergency effort to activate new sources quickly. Is this a sudden move to expedite offshore drilling – and reduce America’s dependence on foreign oil? Not quite.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar on Tuesday said his department would propose regulatory changes to simplify and speed the leasing process for wind energy development off the Atlantic coast. In addition, the department will work aggressively to process applications to build transmission lines to move the electricity produced by offshore wind farms to consumers, he said at a news briefing in Baltimore with officials from Maryland and Delaware.

The proposed changes are the result of lessons the department learned in implementing the controversial Cape Wind lease off the coast of Massachusetts earlier this year, a process that took eight years. Salazar described the lease, which is expected to power 200 homes, as a “historic milestone in America’s renewable energy future.” But he said it was clear federal officials needed to make the permitting process more efficient if they are to realize the Obama administration’s goals of harnessing the economic and environmental benefits of producing energy from the strong and steady winds that characterize much of the Atlantic coast.

Through the accelerated leasing process, led by the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Regulation and Enforcement, the department could issue new leases by the end of 2011.

But while the administration is rushing to license offshore wind farms, offshore oil drilling is still stalled - by the same Department of the Interior:

A meeting between Interior Secretary Ken Salazar and offshore drilling executives on the Gulf Coast orchestrated by Senator Mary Landrieu, Democrat of Louisiana, failed to yield much progress on streamlining the permitting process for new wells in the aftermath of the BP oil spill, Ms. Landrieu said this week.

“I am extremely disappointed that Secretary Salazar’s presentation today failed to provide regulatory certainty and a clear path for speeding up the process of issuing drilling permits,” she said in a statement.

“Our industry leaders are skeptical and have every right to be,” she said.

Salazar met with drilling advocates on Monday, and made clear the White House will not be moving forward on drilling anytime soon. On Tuesday, he made clear where the administration’s favor lies: with green energy interests.

But the failure to expand offshore drilling is extremely costly. If the White House were willing to move forward with drilling, it would create thousands of jobs and add billions in new tax revenue – both of which would be especially valuable at a time of record deficits and a shortage of jobs. Instead, wind farms appear to be the nation’s only strategy for attending to domestic energy needs.

Cross-posted at Liberty Central

COMMENTS

  • bigredone

    It is time for non-violent civil disobedience.

    DRILL, and tell “big hat, no cows” to go spit! Let the Gulf states provide cover by issuing orders/permits for the oil companies to drill, baby, drill.

    By the time the courts work through the paperwork generated by the states, this bunch will be GONE!

    • kestrel

      …Cuba, China and Mexico are exploiting the Gulf for all it’s worth. This is another shameful case of, “Who’s side is Obama on?”

      “While our energy developers struggle under…government restrictions, regulations and legal challenges, theirs draw upon huge national budgets… and function with environmental impunity in our coastal waters.”

      – from an article titled “Disarmament In America’s Energy Security Battles” http://www.forbes.com/2010/11/18/energy-nuclear-climate-change-opinions-contributors-larry-bell_2.html

  • Xasteius
    • earlgrey
  • JamesLBurns

    Wind is the next ethanol, but it’s not quite that bad.

    • renny

      Not so bad for a small business or house with battery storage, but there is no way to store overproduction when the wind is blowing and hard to accommodate the lack of contribution when wind is down. The electric grid in the US (and the world) must run all of the time at even speed, so there are no surges that wreck the system or brown outs and black outs that do the same.

      Decades ago one of my elderly Piney relatives lived in a shack in the Jersey pines that had a little windmill about 20 feet high and fed a couple car batteries. Off them, he ran ONE light bulb and black and white tv for the Fri. night fights. (He heated and otherwise illuminated by kerosene.)

      Also, many decades ago a client of my father had a couple decent-sized windmills on his farm that ran his irrigation system and heating/cooling in his barn and chicken coops.

      Regardless, we are NEVER going to run American energy on wind, biofuel, thermal, hydro, or solar, but we could employ nuclear for significant power contributions because France gets over 1/4 of its power from nuclear and you can tour the Black Forest in Germany and see three of four power plants within a few miles from the peaks of ruined castles. However, in 2000, the Green Party in GE helped pass a bill for GE to build no more nuclear plants, so GE has a power problem ahead of it in the not too distance future.

  • gekster

    And a Happy Thanksgiving to all.

    • http://www.defeatobama.com DefeatObama.com

      I’ve been preaching this for the last couple of years in NYC. If Republicans ever want to get more than a toe hold on anything in this state again the NY GOP needs to shatter they myth that Democrats protect the average person.

    • Scope

      for the already, and soon to be fired Liberals. They can all line up behind the windmills and collectively blow at them. That should actually provide enough hot air to heat the whole of the eastern coastlines homes for the next year.

      • gekster

        wouldn’t all that hot air might just cause a real “Global Warming.”

  • http://www.FranBaker.com frankieb

    Seriously, there needs to be a place where someone is documenting all the stuff that’s going on via executive order or just plain sleight-of-hand/behind-the-scenes/pulling-it-out-of-that-too-big-hat?

    Gobble, gobble, all!

    • http://www.defeatobama.com DefeatObama.com

      At some point.

      • Scope

        we can’t have too many places all fighting for the same goal. Hope you are prepared for a very long list, and, he isn’t done yet.

    • renny

      and secretaries’ orders (Interior’s Gulf drilling ban) all need to be collated by Issa a vetted through the new Congress. No one knows all the damage these people are doing.

      When George W/. became pres., he found Clinton had issued so many EOs that they filled 50,000 pages of the Fed. Register. Bush initially put a hold on the Clinton EO;s for 4 months until they were all reviewed and at the end of four months extended the period another four months.

      He should have just issued his own to make Bubba’s null and void because they included the edict that anyone could ask for a translator in any public facility (police station, hospital, pub. school, yadda) and/or have all public forms provide in a language other than English, and he set aside millions of acres in the West and Southwest in the name of wilderness preservation and environmental political correctness. Some of those land grabs are still in litigation over a decade later.

  • http://www.defeatobama.com DefeatObama.com

    It is a real project. I’ve been rethinking my plan of developing a whole bunch of stuff and then launching. I may just start it as a simple blog.

    • Scope

      start smaller and expand. You will find the correct direction and path as time goes on. Keep us informed of your progress. As I said, the more people out there willing to fight the March of the Progressives the better. Many will disagree on the methods and pathways, but, we all will eventually reach the same end goal, or touchdown, in Obama’s defeat.

  • persiflage

    spending billions to deploy thousand-year old technology to produce unreliable quantities of power needing full conventional back-up.

    How I wish these ‘green utopia’ people would run some small-scale practical experiments with their own lives and their own money first. But no, they are all theoretical, not experimental.

  • izoneguy
    • kestrel
  • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

    Anything to help – except what really works…

    I’d rather see leftist inaction than the left in action…

  • Scope

    lookee here-

    http://www.americansforprosperity.org/082610-governor-christie-tilting-windmills

    I’ve been saying for a good while that Chris Christie is taking very small amounts of monies from the unions, but, is putting his money where his hot air is, into Cap and Trade issues. Can someone please get in touch with Glenn Beck and let him know that Christie porn isn’t all he has made out to be? I love Beck on many issues, but, this ain’t one of them. Has he really researched all of this guy, or is he just in love with his tough guy persona?

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      Sound the alarm!

      • LisaDe

        Now that was funny!

        • Scope

          if you looked deeper into the person than just merely supporting someone because they have a loud voice, and, because they are strong on one issue only. There is nothing funny at all about supporting Cap and Trade policies, unless of course, you support Cap and Trade policies. I know that you really like Gov. Chris Christie, however, have you looked into all of his positions? What is it in particular that drives you to him? That’s a very fair question.

      • Scope

        amongst Republicans? Are the Republicans trying to fight back the Green agenda? How does supporting a windmill project not fall into the Cap and Trade legislation? I understand the thought that perfect is the enemy of the good, but, with respect to your comment, should Cap and Trade, which windmill technology is a part of be ignored?

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          Supporting windmills has zero to do with Cap and Trade.

          • Scope

            sorry for my stupidity.

          • jimmyg

            It does not have anything to do with windmills or solar panels, which are clean energy alternatives, which may or may not be clean, efficient, and are more expensive than current sources of energy. Cap and Trade is something entirely different.

          • Scope

            http://www.realclearclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/06/25/tilting_at_green_windmills_97168.html

            http://www.nocapandtrade.us/clean_energy_is_pure_fantasy.htm

            http://www.afphb.org/082310-afp-denounces-governor-decision-use-cap-and-trade-energy-tax-subsidies-offshore-wi

            http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2010/08/lonegans_amusig_cap_andtrade-and-tirad.html

            Neil, I have many many more sites that I can link that show that Windmills are absolutely tied to Cap and Trade. I’m sure that many here at Redstate realize that Windmills are a part of Cap and Trade. What’s your problem with my post about Christie?

          • jimmyg

            Three of your four links do not work. You are mixing apples and oranages. Cap and Trade is a market. Simply stated, companies who take part in the market would be assigned a certain amount of pollution, by the governing body of the market, that they could emit. If that company went below that amount of their assigned emmissions, that company could sell their remaining emmission credits to another company who is over their limit of emmissions. The problem with cap and trade, among other things, is that it is not a level playing field. If India and China do not belong to the market, then what is the sense of setting up the market. It only hurts the companies that take part in the market.
            Now can you tell me how windmills have anything to do with cap and trade, in that cap and trade is not current law, and it is doubtful it will become law in the near future.

          • Scope

            have at it pioneer.

          • Menlo

            Cielo Wind Energy recently put thousands of Chinese to work making wind turbines for wind farms in Texas.

            First their light bulb ban, and now this! It’s amazing to see how the environmentalists pull out all the stops to help the world’s worst polluter to generate more pollution!

            Either people don’t understand where this “green technology” comes from, or they have ulterior motives. With regard to those making and enforcing the policies, it is clearly the latter.

          • Menlo
          • jimmyg

            It also shows me why you command little respect by members of this forum. You have little knowledge of the subjects you comment on, but since you have an audiance, babble on in spite of your limitations.

          • kestrel

            and consider her a good “regular” of the site.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            jousting with a windmill. Pun intended, but it’s apt. Scope hasn’t put together a cogent argument in her tenure here.

          • texasgalt

            than you are. You have a rather shallow record of participation here on RedState to be making judgments on another. How much respect do you imagine that you command?

            If you really believe that cap and trade is a market based solution to polllution, you must have interests in wind technology. The one time free market Republican, T Boone Pickens, Mr Windpower, also mysteriously embraced cap and trade.

            As that has not worked out so well, Pickens has moved on to natural gas, which actually has promise.

          • jimmyg

            All I did was explain what Cap and Trade is. I also stated, among other things, what the problem with Cap and Trade is. What “truth” is Scope closer to. I stated what Cap a;nd Trade is, as opposed is as opposed to what Scope thought it was. As to your other comments as to my posting history, I certainly could have posted as to a “Texas Tall Tale” as to a certain lawsuit that was filed, and the defendants description of it as simply “putting a sign in a window”. Shall I continue?

          • texasgalt

            You’ve been weighed and measured.

            You went personal against Scope in a way meant ridicule her.

            As for the sign in the window, I am under injunction. If it suits you, lay it out. If you do, get it right.

          • jimmyg

            I became aware of certain southern cultural differences, as opposed to my northern upbringing in Sept. of 1969 when I entered the Air Force 3 months out of high shcool. As that the time I entered the AF I had never been out of my neighborhood in Chicago. I was in basic in Lackland AFB with several guys from South Carolina. One of whom, and the other South Carolinans confirmed, had played football for the University of Alabama. He told the other recruits and myself of Coach Bryant, and his playing days at Alabama. Being rather innocent, we all beleived it. Shortly before we left Lackland we found out that this was a tall tale. Along the way, I eventually was assigned to Elmendorf AFB AK. My Sergeant, another southener, told me how he has substantial property holdings next to Disneyworld which was being built in Orlando. He didnt have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out. I was a doubter by that time. It was then explained to me that story telling, and not strictly adhering to the truth is part of the southern culture. This part of the southern culture was demonstrated in the film Forest Gump. It is completly harmless unless you are a northerner buying land or a used car down south.
            I would appreciate you reading my post, and if you disagree with it please tell me why. I certainly could be wrong. But a market is a market. It does not mean I advocate cap and trade. There is a difference between renewable sources of energy, which has been around since the seventies, and cap and trade which is a theoretical market for the trading of emission credits. Because I explained the difference to Scope and she chose to label me, does not mean I agree with Cap and Trade or renewable sources of energy.
            I have been lurking on this site for several years. Certainly no one would disagree that since 2008 this site has taken a different tone. Most of the FP’ers from an earlier era have left without explanation. One of the most respected FP’ers, Francis, aka blackhead, continues to occasionally post as to financial issues. An example of the change in tone is when he posted several months ago as to tax increases, and his personal opinion on them. He was called a communist by some members of this community. Some times the name calling gets out of hand.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            See here.

            C&T is a “market based solution”. It requires a created market and it’s not a good solution with respect to energy, but it IS a market based solution even if it is a bad one.

            And, as far as Scope is concerned, jimmyg was being nice. Most of us recognize that she is an affirmative action poster.

          • Scope

            It would be great if you had some traffic at your own site to amuse yourself with instead of constantly coming here and poking your dull sticks at me, but, of course the lights are dim there, and are about to go off from lack of use. That is unless you enjoy talking to yourself, there and here.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            stop. When you learn something and/or stick to posting stuff you have a clue about.

            With respect to my site, at least I have one. And I post stuff that is actually thought out and my links work. I’m not particularly interested in lots of traffic, frankly I have too much other stuff going on to deal with a high traffic blog.

            Frankly, you’ve been dismembered by others here so there’s not much for me to do.

          • kestrel
          • Scope

            that you don’t care about your site. You sure have been doing much advertising here at Redstate to promote it, still no dice. So much goes for your vast array of supporters.

            There have been several diaries here that you enter simply to disparage me. No recos on the diary, and, no comments on the diaries topic, just needling me. You can carry on all you like, but, Redstate does have many many new members (their goal actually), and, you and your old time cohorts are not in the majority any longer. You need to accept the fact that things do move along, and, very little stays the same, even for the old ones that are resistant to change. I love every minute of the attention you give me, I obviously have had an impact on you.

          • Scope

            because you keep saying that I have never added a cogent argument to the site in my tenure here, yet, you have complimented me on a few comments. Which way is it becker? Like I said, you pay far to much attention to me, so I must have had an impact on you. If my comments were so beyond anything credible, you wouldn’t give me the time of day. Again, thank you for your attention. I must be doing something right to attract so much of your attention.

          • texasgalt

            in your reasoning. You certainly carry a very big rhetorical club but sometimes the dispensation of a little grace wouldn’t be a bad thing.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            And believe me, that comment was the equivalent of distilled water compared to the unedited version.

          • Scope

            I’m sure it would be quite entertaining.

          • aesthete

            Cap ‘n Trade approaches the issue of global warming from a Coasian point of view, in that it internalizes externalities by properly assigning property rights for the pollution in question (a method which has worked well in some cases). The problem with Cap and Trade is not that it isn’t market-based (it is), but rather, is based on the fact that we don’t know whether it is occurring or not. First of all, we don’t know that “global warming” in the anthropomorphic sense exists, and until we have concrete proof that it does (and have proof that such a thing would be harmful), the externality in question does not exist. Second, even if ascertained that global warming was harmful, the precise cost of an externality is a notoriously tricky subject in economics. Third, even if we figured out the precise cost of the externality in question, it would be difficult to apply the “blame”, so to speak, proportionally: we are all carbon dioxide producers, and calculating the amounts that we all use would be impossible. Finally, the problem that this legislation attempts to solve is impossible to solve without the aid of China and India, at the least. Anyone who thinks that either country is willing to put its economy in the backburner for an environmental crusade is deluded. Watching our economy commit hari-kari before theirs certainly won’t convince them that they’re wrong about their decision.

          • texasgalt

            I guess since some have made a fortune from it, in that sense, there is or at least was a market.

            http://www.howestreet.com/articles/index.php?article_id=15098

            http://www.glossynews.com/artman/publish/green-renewable-glacier-gore-1644.shtml

          • aesthete

            Again, it’s a bad program with deleterious effects, but it is a market-based one.

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            It would be far from the best solution. If you just need to lower the use of dirty fuels like oil and coal, the best solution would be just to directly tax them, and cut other taxes to offset so that you don’t wreck the economy. (Payroll taxes would be a likely candidate.)

            Much simpler, more direct, and therefore more likely to be effective.

          • aesthete

            The chief problem with it is the fact that it’s devilishly tricky to figure out an optimum rate of taxation, and that government has no incentives to find that optimum rate over a period of time, anyways. In many circumstances, the best way to internalize an externality is to make it someone’s problem, at which point that party will make arrangements with other parties involved to deal with said problem more efficiently and flexibly (i.e., the Coasian solution). Believe it or not, emissions trading worked very well in the 90s when it came to internalizing the externalities associated with carbon monoxide.

            Even if anthropomorphic global warming were true and proven harmful, the sheer mass of carbon producers, and different ways that carbon could be produced, make it impossible for government to even come close to setting optimal tax rates (i.e., the Pigouvian solution): government simply has no mechanism to coordinate and direct information to where it needs to go, blah blah, insert standard argument against central planning here :) Any economist who says otherwise is lying.

            Unfortunately, the sheer mass of people involved both directly and indirectly in carbon emissions also makes the Coasian, market-based solution potentially worse: the sheer number of transaction costs involved would be formidable enough to mitigate potential gains made by the “market-based” solution. Again, any economist who says otherwise is flat-out lying.

            I think that you’re right in that the Pigouvian solution is less bad than a Coasian solution in this case: imposing a one-size-fits-all tax scheme from on high would ultimately be less costly in terms of time and energy spent than the transaction costs of the “market solution”. However, I also think that any discussion of methods is moot, because global warming (if it is happening) cannot be stopped by unilateral action on the part of the US. Thus, any attempt to “solve” the problem of global warming unilaterally is only going to make us less competitive, and will only serve to stifle our productivity (something that CA’s poor decision to unilaterally deal with “greenhouse gases” will show on a smaller scale).

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            we already have the examples of Spain and Germany and their failed green initiatives.

          • Michael Dugas

            It doesn’t do anything but mandate taking wealth from one hand and giving it to another. If business A is allotted, hypothetically, 25 tons of carbon as allowable waste but only emits 15 tons it can sell its surplus 10 tons to business B who is over it allowable total. The total carbon footprint doesn’t go down it just gets shuffled around along with the bill. Therefore it does nothing for lowering carbon output into the environment.
            Besides global warming as a result of carbon emissions is a joke as research has shown that what temperature increases there were happened BEFORE CO2 levels went up NOT after. And global temperatures stopped increasing around 1995 or so if I remember correctly.

          • Scope

            I suggest that you google- Cap and Trade Windmills. You will find many more links than I attempted. Many many more actually.

          • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

            If you don’t like Genital Napolitano feeling up your daughter you can drive or walk.
            That’s the market at work.

            Calling anything a market based solution when the “market” is an artificial government creation doesn’t fly.

            Go back to central planning school and look for new adjectives.

          • texasgalt

            They’ve created a “market based solution” that is by design, destined to fail.

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            …but they’re not a part of it per se. They’re also not a terribly reliable source of energy (like solar), and they’ll do next to nothing to reduce our dependency on oil or coal. Nuclear and natural gas are the best clean forms of energy, but they don’t give people warm fuzzies like wind farms and solar panels, especially those on the left, who believe in unlimited energy without using resources to generate it, PhDs for all, equal outcomes from different inputs, the end of poverty, and Santa Claus.

          • kestrel

            in that there would be no market for such an inefficient source of energy as wind (and solar) without cap and trade forcing the price of oil- and coal-based energy to skyrocket. This raises an interesting question: Why are we rushing into creating more wind farms when cap and trade is dead?

            Answer: crony capitalism. For example, in one big wind project in Oregon, “the project’s corporate backers ‘would provide little skin in the game (equity about 10%),’ while the government would provide ‘a significant subsidy (65+%).’” Those who stand to benefit in contracts, etc. from the construction of the wind farm (which, like all off them, is ultimately going to become a huge unprofitable financial albatross) want to soak that 65% (of $1.3 billion in this case) out of the taxpayers before the Green energy house of cards collapses.

            http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703506904575592843603174132.html?KEYWORDS=wind+power

          • JSobieski

            http://www.cnet.com/1990-11136_1-6278387-1.html

            i.e. a market excess grounded on trend chasing that defies logic

            Markets over time are rational. individual investors are quite capable of being duped, or nuts.

          • kestrel

            It is, indeed, trend chasing that defies all logic, starting with its being rooted in unsupported global warming hysteria. And the biggest “investor” is government — with our tax dollars.

            “Here’s how to make an economic bubble: Throw in generous amounts of government money, add legislative mandates and stir with supportive media attention. Sound familiar? First we had the dot com bubble, then the housing bubble. Now we are headed for a green jobs bubble.” http://www.mackinac.org/11690

            As with job losses, population losses, personal income decline, and unemployment, Michigan is (trumpets please) a *leader* in dumping taxpayer money into futile “green energy” jobs, including battery technology for the electric car — the Government Motors Volt — that nobody wants. Eight years of an Obama-style governor was supposed to transform this state’s economy from the “Rust Belt into the Green Belt,” an idyllic green utopia. Right.

            Thank goodness our new Republican governor, Rick Snyder, intends to reverse course on this, but doing so is going to require saying NO to “huge special interests that the… green binge has created.” (quote from Henry Paine of the Detroit News).

            The same is true on the national level, and Obama is rushing to funnel more of our tax dollars to windmill special interests like GE (who will help fund his next campaign) before principled Republicans shut off the funds. The important question is, Will the new Rs shut off these funds?

            “…plenty of Republicans helped create?and love?this subsidy factory. It keeps their corn farmers and wind-turbine producers in business. The grants will prove more valuable now that earmarks are gone. There’s a reason so many Republicans list an energy bill as a top item on which to cooperate with Mr. Obama. Everyone gets to spend money.” — Kim Strassel in WSJ

            Green energy/jobs is another financial train wreck heading our way. Let’s see if Rs have the courage to do anything about it, or if they will sit around raking in campaign donations while the train gathers speed, hoping the big crash doesn’t happen on their watch.

          • Scope

            in Spain. Even though we have all the data to study of how badly that worked out in their country, we are pushing ahead with it here. If I’m not mistaken, Spain may be one of the biggest Euro countries to be headed for economic failure. I’m sure that there willingness to subsidize everything “green” will have contributed to their failure. Though history has shown that socialism doesn’t work, anywhere it has been tried, our current administration has the false notion that they know how to do it right this time, as though they believe they can improve on the Spanish green movement.

          • kestrel

            “…every ‘green’ job created by the wind industry eliminated 2.2 jobs elsewhere in the Spanish economy.”

            “…when a government artificially props up the industry with subsidies, higher electrical costs (in Spain’s case 31%) and tax hikes (5%) along with government debt follow. Every job created was estimated to cost $800,000 to create, and 90% of these were temporary. Alverez (the research director in Spain) specifically presented lessons for the U.S., warning that potential ‘self-inflicted wounds’ could cost our country 6.6 million jobs if we follow Spain’s example.”

            http://www.forbes.com/2010/11/18/energy-nuclear-climate-change-opinions-contributors-larry-bell.html?boxes=Homepagetoprated

            Scope, you’re right, and government should not be subsidizing this.

        • LisaDe

          I will answer your question.

          I don’t care if Christie put windmills and solar panels from the Walt Whitman Bridge all the way up Rt 42 into Atlantic City. The guy has more guts and more integrity than the lot of them put together. That is what draws me to him.

          Unfortunately I will not be able to vote for him in 2012 as he has stated time and again that he will not be running. It’ a shame.

          • Scope

            and economy busing policies to support someone who has guts and integrity. As I said, good to know where you are coming from. Glad I left NJ many many years ago for that very reason.

          • LisaDe

            I own a cabin out in the Adirondacks that uses Solar Panels, No electricity. Bathroom outside. I bathe in the lake. Cook outside. You know, the way they used to live. Killing jobs is what they and I are all about. And then, when I get back home, I turn on the lights with a switch. Wasting money and all that good stuff.

            You’re right as usual. Guts and integrity are for the birds. We wouldn’t want to interject that anywhere near Washington.

          • Scope

            So Guts and integrity require each of us to go back to the Pilgrims time? Outhouses, really?

          • LisaDe

            to even waste my time with this. Just circles and circles. I gave it a shot. Then it just turns ridiculous. Have a nice Thanksgiving night Scope. I’m done.

          • earlgrey

            And only had an outhouse. I would have to shoot myself. I am eating crackers and sipping Gatorade today while giving thanks for indoor plumbing

          • LisaDe

            It’s my husband, the trapper!! I hate the outhouse! After two days, I make him drive me into town, theres always some saloon open for biz!! Thank God!!!

    • kestrel

      cap and trade and all of the green energy stuff falls is what I think Mark Levin calls Enviro-Statism. This is a serious failing in Mr. Chrisite. For anyone who hasn’t read Levin’s”Liberty and Tyranny,” I recommend that chapter in particular.

  • Scope

    So, since windmills have nothing to do with Cap and Trade, lets stop any drilling promotions. Wind will set you free.

    • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

      They’re an old, kind of crummy form of power generation, but just because they’re promoted by the same people as cap and trade doesn’t mean that they’re intrinsically related.

    • aesthete

      energy in general and let energy markets find their respective equilibriums?

      • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

        I can see a pretty decent argument for incentivizing or subsidizing the construction of nuclear plants, their upkeep, or both, especially because the risks have such a significant neighborhood effect that they might best be mitigated by a government. A large force (military, FEMA) would have to be deployed to assist in case of a meltdown, so some level of governmental involvement seems appropriate throughout. I could be wrong, though.

        Otherwise, I agree.

        • aesthete

          but in the case of nuclear technology, the technology is safe enough, and the regulations stultifying enough, that liberating it from those shackles (besides basic quality assurance and zoning) would be tremendously beneficial. Nuclear reactors have made great strides since the 80s, and are now very, very safe (for reference, most of France’s reactors are from the 70s and 80s). We would have to dismantle quite a bit of regulation and perhaps provide tax credits to assure potential investors that the costly upfront investment’s gains won’t be regulated out of existence in the future, but after we assured potential investors that their investments are safe from government legislation, we would start seeing subsidization in the field. (Mind you, it wouldn’t allow for a France-like situation where 80% of our energy comes from nuclear sources, but the French model is inefficient and largely has roots in the Guallist push for atuarky, not efficiency. Nuclear power isn’t quite cost-effective enough to directly compete with coal and oil, but they are sufficiently cost effective as to start supplementing those forms of energy, and are cleaner than those forms of energy.)

          • acat

            and as a result paid the highest electricity costs in the country.

            Mostly ’60s and ’70s reactor designs. The newer CANDU design looks quite promising….

            Mew

          • aesthete

            I cringe every time I hear that canard about France’s energy independence when their energy policy (subsidizing tons of 60s, 70s, and 80s reactors) drives costs up so much for their citizens! Even so,
            nuclear reactors built with new technologies get a lot of bang for their buck, and price/kilowatt-hour is very close to that of “cheap” fuels like gas and coal. While it’s no panacea (again: see France), it’s one of the more viable forms of alternative energy when it comes to cost, feasibility, use in a large-scale energy grid, etc., and paving the way for nuclear energy to pick up some slack by removing some of the red tape would be very helpful, IMO: even more so than freeing up the oil reserves in AK.

          • acat

            Tour guides on Molokai, HI used to say they had the second highest electricity prices in the nation because they were paying off the sub-oceanic cables. Every now and then someone would ask who was higher.. and were surprised to find it was Chicago.

            It’s interesting that Japan isn’t cited as often as France as a model – Japan uses a mix of fossil fuels (largely imported) and nuclear, perhaps it’s the fossil fuels that are the problem? Perhaps it’s also that there have been a number of accidents and a couple cover-ups, shaking the public’s confidence in the industry.

            What’s really ironic is that Canada is the best model to look at. They’ve stayed on top of the technology, the CANDU is a very nice reactor design that could be built just about anywhere, and … their national plan appears to be to use nuclear energy to produce both fossil fuels and electricity, and export both to the U.S.

            Irony that we could end up dependent on Canada for nuclear-generated electrical power when the wind stops blowing, eh?

            Mew

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            A few months ago, I listened to a podast from AEI in their Economic Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute. Link here. It’s excellent and explodes a lot of myths about so-called green energy. To find it in iTunes, search the store for AEI and click on the Economic Policy Studies at AEI. The podcast is dated 5/13/10.

            The author, Robert Bryce, has written a book called Power Hungry, which I got for my nook (the Barnes & Noble kindle) after listening to the podcast. It’s chock-full of numbers and data tables, and it’s fascinating and very well written.

            Interestingly, according to Bryce, coal was the dominant source of energy until 1950, when oil took the lead (WWII and the growing auto industry increased the market share of petroleum). Coal was number two until 1958, when natural gas took second place. By 1971, the United States was consuming twice as much energy produced by gas as coal. Congress and regulators intervened. Their intervention led to a decrease in the amount of gas-based energy. Coal-based energy consumption, which peaked in the late 1940s, dropped in the 1950s, increased a bit in the 1960s, and increase noticeably in the 70s. It has basically been even with natural gas since the late 70s. You can see the chart (and some others) in this PDF from the Department of Energy (second page, which is numberered xx).

            At any rate, I think that this helps to bolster the laissez-faire argument. I’m still a bit on the fence about nuclear because of the neighborhood effects, but you make a great point about its improved safety, aesthete. As fossil fuels become more expensive, I think that nuclear will become an increasingly more attractive option, but I suspect that fossil fuel reserves are much greater than we know. Another thing that a lot of enviros ignore is how much better we are now of extracting fuels using new technology.

            If we were to enact Cap ‘n’ Trade, I think that it might actually increase worldwide carbon emissions (assuming that anthropogenic global warming is even an issue). My logic goes something like this: The United States produces energy that is much cleaner than, say, China’s, and our factories are presumably more efficient, from a power standpoint. Rising energy costs in America (due to C&T) would lead even more businesses to move their manufacturing operations to China, which simply isn’t going to sign onto any carbon emissions treaties (or they’ll sign one and cheat), because capping carbon emissions is economic suicide, and China does what’s best for China, not what makes vocal progressives happy. So a widget that moves from the U.S. to China will now be associated with greater carbon per widget production cost, and assuming that widget consumption stays steady, carbon emissions increase. We lose, the environment loses (again, assuming anthropogenic GW, which we all know is iffy), and China wins. Not a great idea.

          • acat

            It’s not just that there’s a lot of “terra incognita” when it comes to the presence of fossil fuels. It’s whether it’s cost-effective to convert potential chemical energy (e.g. fossil fuel) into electrical or thermal energy given the cost of extraction and conversion.

            For instance, there are rather massive coal reserves in southern Illinois, southern Indiana, and Kentucky, but it’s so-called “dirty” coal, high in sulfur and other impurities. It can be dug out and burned, but the power plants have to use expensive “scrubbers” to clean the output, thanks to EPA regulations. They’d rather burn so-called “clean” coal from the western states, no scrubbers required.

            As the cost per kilowatt-hour goes up, running coal plants on “dirty” coal will become more attractive…. of course, so will nuclear.

            As I’m in Illinois, I have to say that the major issues in living near a nuclear plant are a lot less bad than the issues in living near a coal plant – nukes are cleaner by far including in the amount of radiation released – but there’s been a lot more fear-mongering about nukes, and the problems are a lot less understood.

            There have been problems; the groundwater in Braidwood, IL is contaminated with tritium, for example, but that’s hardly unique… – the soil on a number of lots in West Chicago, IL is contaminated with radioactive thorium, from the production of gas lamp mantles by the Lindsay Rare Earths Facility there…

            Overall, I’d rather see more for-profit nuclear plants… accompanied by a better campaign to educate power consumers.

            Mew

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            One is a few miles to the north, in Cornelius, NC, and the other is a few miles to the south, outside Rock Hill, SC. Charlotte, where I live, sits between the two, and we have two man-made lakes (Norman and Wylie) as a consequence. I’m totally confident in the safety of nuclear plants, and I prefer for-profit enterprises to non-profit (generally), though that’s another story for another day.

            I’d take living this close to two nuclear plants to living this close to two coal plants any day. And I don’t think that wind or solar will (or can) become anything anytime soon, other than something to show tourists and provide people with a sense of moral superiority.

          • JSobieski

            nt

          • acat

            CANDU, mini-reactor, shipstones*.. whatever.

            I don’t care if we’re generating power (relatively) cleanly, storing it efficiently, or what… but we need to move toward cheap electricity to move away from coal and oil….

            Mew

            * Heinlein’s hypothetical “perfect” battery/capacitor…

          • aesthete

            AGW believers would be better served by proposing that government 1) look into measures to minimize human suffering when “it” happens, 2) subsidize research that could more accurately model, predict, and (possibly) combat the effects of AGW, 3) support R&D in technologies that could reduce our carbon footprint, and 4) attempt to make the results of these lines of research available to those responsible for the energy and industrial policies of the nations whose cooperation we would need (China, India, Brazil, etc). I wouldn’t agree that we should be doing any of those things, but these actions are, realistically, what is left to AGW believers looking for politically tenable solutions. Any “solution” which significantly raises energy prices or visibly reduces global competitiveness during a recession while providing (at best) iffy benefits just isn’t going to fly.

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison
          • acat

            The sun is the biggest variable in the system – the “little ice age” (Maunder Minimum) could be repeating – http://www.spaceweather.com shows sunspot activity is a bit light…

            Going to be a cold winter, people.

            Mew

      • kestrel

        “How ’bout we stop subsidizing energy in general and let energy markets find their respective equilibriums?”

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      Was this directed at me?

      • Scope

        If you go up above and read the comments talking about Cap and Trade as being a market based solution, and the promoting austerity with respect to the environmental issues. I think you will see where my diversity comment came from. Of course those comments have populated since then, but, please read the times of the posts.

        I do still however think that Gov Chris Christie is wrong on his support/promotion of Wind Energy.

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
        • aesthete
  • gekster

    From a search for: “wind stops blowing, west texas windmills”

    From:
    http://etrmcommunity.com/site/modules/wordpress/2008/02/28/the-answer-my-friend-isnt-blowing-in-the-wind/
    February 28, 2008 @ 8:05 am

    Excerpt:
    Yesterday evening, ERCOT, the Texas ISO, had to declare an emergency and interrupt 1,100 MW of demand due to a combination of colder temperatures and under-delivery of some generators. However the real lynch pin in the situation was the loss of some 1,400 MW of power out of the West Texas wind farms. Just as the evening demand curve was on the rise, the winds in west died down, cutting wind power production from 1,700 MW to just 300 MW. Fortunatly, other non-wind units were brought on line and the crisis passed within a couple of hours.

    This is a perfect example of why relying on wind as a baseload supply is a bad idea. We cannot modulate the wind nor can we depend on its blowing when we need it. Wind power can be a good supplement to the more traditional sources of energy, but for anyone that believes wind can replace coal, nuclear, or gas as a fuel for generation, well, to paraphrase the soup nazi, ?No power for you!? if the wind isn?t blowing.

    And then from this.
    http://www.vietnamnews.net/story/332622
    Friday 29th February, 2008

    A drop in wind during the week in Texas, left some communities without power when generator windmills stopped working.

    The cold weather in Texas triggered an electric emergency that caused the Texas grid operator to cut some services.

    The Electric Reliability Council of Texas said a decline in wind energy production in west Texas occurred at the same time that colder temperatures were hitting the state.

    System operators had to halt power to some customers to shave demand.

    And from “Blowing our Tax Dollars”
    Posted on February 28, 2008.

    http://windfarms.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/texas-power-grid-narrowly-averted-rolling-blackouts/

    Excerpt:
    Operators of the state power grid scrambled Tuesday night to keep the lights on after a sudden drop in West Texas wind threatened to cause rolling blackouts, officials confirmed Wednesday.

    At about 6:41 p.m. Tuesday, grid operators ordered a shutoff of power to so-called interruptible customers, which are industrial electric users who have agreed previously to forgo power in times of crisis. The move ensured continued stability of the grid after power dropped unexpectedly.

    Dottie Roark, a spokeswoman for the power grid, said a sudden uptick in electricity use coupled with other factors and a sudden drop in wind power caused the unexpected dip. As a result, grid officials immediately went to the second stage of its emergency blackout prevention plan.

    Oil and natural gas are reliable, wind and solar are not.
    Any questions?

  • JSobieski

    http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news-toshiba-micro-nuclear-12.17b.html

    http://www.physorg.com/news145561984.html

    • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

      Sucks we will be watching instead of doing.

    • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

      NT

      • JSobieski

        Going small seems like a great way to make sure that its a private sector enterprise, and the regs are reasonable.

        Big can be inherently bureaucratic, so a Small Energy industry is something to be excited about.

        • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

          …and the power to protect their interests. That’s the sort of bipartisan “solution” I dread (well, most bipartisan solutions, actually, for the same reason).

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            You really think a vast conspiracy, and not basic safety, is what blocks mini nuclear plants in America?

          • janis

            Surely they have vetted them for safety and for terrorism uses. No? If not, then they would be courting horrible liabiltiy.

          • acat

            just to sell more busses.

            Bought ‘em up, shut ‘em down.

            Mew

          • http://christopherrenner.blogspot.com Christopher Renner

            Passenger rail was an obsolete mode of travel even in 1950.

            I can’t link at the moment but see John Lott’s “Freedomnomics” for more info on the matter.

          • acat

            Not all passenger rail is obsolete – far from it. Amtrak is a joke, but New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, D.C. – all have suburban-feeder light rail systems that work quite well to cut down on the number of cars in the city centers, with all the benefits that follow.

            As for the trolley systems, buses do have several advantages including flexibility, however… while the economics may have tilted in favor of buses at one point, in areas where electricity is cheap (pacific northwest, Toronto) the electric streetcar is once again economically on top.

            Mew

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            I don’t believe in conspiracies, except in the rarest of circumstances. I do think that heavily regulated industries (eg banking, electricity) tend to develop regulations that favor the biggest companies. Sometimes this is because they have significant lobbying power, sometimes because they swing the hardest when rules are written (or compliance schemes designed).

            Mini nuclear plants probably aren’t a great example of a company or industry pushing rules and regulations out of self-interest, though. Looks a bit silly now that I re-read it.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Big government and big businesses do work together.

            But I ‘d be scared to let just anyone have his own nuclear plant. :)

          • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

            …or clean his gutters, giving him his own nuclear plant doesn’t seem like such a great idea.

          • aesthete

            but it seems like the problem ATM is too much regulation, not too little. Even assuming a hypothetical world in which all regulations were suspended tomorrow, the nuclear energy industry would be walking on eggshells: nuclear reactors are a huge up-front investment, and investors would be reticent to front the costs for a reactor that had much chance of doing damage.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            for concealed carry is working out so well, I heard Jan Brewer is going to be pushing for a “no-permit-required” for tactical nukes for personal use. Part of the program will be APS installing micro nuke plants in folks homes. And you get an energy credit to boot.

          • aesthete

            that she’s talking about tossing in tax credits for solar-powered tanks as an olive branch for moderate Democrats, though. I understand that we can’t move legislation without the influential pro-solar panel, pro-tank vote, but whatever happened to making a stand on principle and fighting for a tax credit that covers all tank-owners solar and non?

          • lyddea

            “a tax credit that covers all tank-owners solar and non”
            yet, you complain:
            “I am disappointed that she?s talking about tossing in tax credits for solar-powered tanks”
            Sense. It is elsewhere.

          • aesthete
          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            We both know Brewer has no principles. And she couldn’t move legislation if she had compromising pictures of legislators with small animals.

          • aesthete

            In all seriousness, it’s too bad Dean couldn’t get more traction in the primaries. I have absolutely no confidence in Brewer’s ability to get us out of our fiscal woes, and I’m not looking forward to seeing my state become little California.

          • JSobieski

            http://www.physorg.com/news145561984.html

            “Because of their small size, the mini power plants can be assembled relatively quickly and transported by truck, rail or ship to remote locations, even places that currently do not have electricity. The power plants provide an alternative to current nuclear plants, which are large, expensive, and take about 10 years to build. Also, large-scale power plants don?t fit the needs of small populations or areas without available land. Hyperion?s modules can be connected together to provide energy for larger populations, as well.

            In addition, the Hyperion modules have no moving parts to wear down, and never need to be opened on site. Even if opened, the small amount of enclosed fuel would immediately cool, alleviating safety concerns. “It is impossible for the module to go supercritical, ?melt down,? or create any type of emergency situation,” the company states on its Web site. Because the Hyperion plants would be buried underground and guarded by a security detail, the company explains that they?ll be out of sight and safe from illegitimate uses. Further, the material inside wouldn?t be appropriate for proliferation purposes.

            “You would need nation-state resources in order to enrich our uranium,” Deal said. “Temperature-wise it?s too hot to handle. It would be like stealing a barbecue with your bare hands.”

            The reactors need to be refueled about every seven to ten years. After five years of generating power, Hyperion says that the module produces a total waste of about the size of a softball, which could be a candidate for fuel recycling.”

          • JSobieski

            A conventional nuclear power plant is a huge expense that must be paid for before generating a cent of revenue.

            Mini-reactors are far more incremental, and easy to scale (you can add reactors like you would servers to a server array).

            Seriously folks, read up on this stuff. There are already operational mini-reactors in Japan, and I believe the UK is about to implement as well.

            This is not about having a neighbor run their own nuclear power plant. It is about an easy way for a utility company to provide power for an entire neighborhood. Or an array to power a town. Or a larger arraay to power a city.

            The power company would still be responsible for running/monitoring/security.

          • JSobieski

            We are talking about mini low grade reactors. No lower or raising of rods. No doors.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
          • JSobieski

            a very poor man’s dirty bomb—something that can be created now

          • JSobieski

            would be “too hot for a non-nation state actor to handle.”

            Given that the reactors would be burried in concrete bunkers in the ground, its not the kind of thing one can easily access.

          • acat

            and makes off with a dozen spent fuel bundles from one of the storage lakes?

            It’s possible to secure the existing facilities, so it should be just as possible to secure new ones. Obviously, security experts should be involved in reactor placement.

            Mew

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Security is not a binary thing.

            Having a few large plants makes it easier for us to secure them than to have many small ones.

          • acat

            one big nuke also means one big high-tension line, which makes it much easier to kill power to a city.

            I’m also not convinced that we couldn’t put mini-nukes in the center of military bases in rural areas. They ought to already have decent security, and are toward the edges of the grid…. i.e. areas where adding local generation would be very helpful…

            Just a thought.

            Mew

          • JSobieski

            seems pretty secure to me. Its a purposely self contained unit.

          • Michael Dugas

            They are small and modular. You can have one or hook up several and they can be buried under ground for decades before being replaced. Junes issue of Discover magazine did a piece on them.

            http://www.nuscalepower.com/

          • JSobieski

            it appears that they all have similar designs.

  • gausiazit

    Wind is the next ethanol, but it?s not quite that bad.

    • acat

      .. in some cases – like to generate mechanical *potential*. (i.e. pump water uphill, raise a heavy weight, spin up a flywheel…)

      The potential mechanical energy can then be used to generate electricity at the time and place it’s desired.

      We could get the same effect charging up massive batteries, but .. last time I checked, we don’t have efficient enough battery technology to make this make sense.

      Mew

  • http://www.defeatobama.com DefeatObama.com

    Even if we could pump more oil it doesn’t solve the long term issue of relying on a limited source to fuel us.

    Also isn’t the bigger issue how the refineries are essentially at capacity?

    • JSobieski

      and nothing matters.

      In the short term, allowing for an efficient energy market benefits everyone, including attempts to garner investments in all sorts of energy-related technology.

      Every physical resource on the planet is “limited” but that doesn’t stop us from relying on it. Water is limited. Oxygen is limited. The “limited” supplies of oil and natural gas on the planet have been as habitually wrong as the forecasts for mass starvation (Malthus) and climate catastrophe (the actor who played Sam on Cheers).

      Nobody said one solution has to solve the entire problem, or that the entire problem has to be solved now. What we do know is that more drilling is a boon to our domestic economy, and makes us less vulnerable to price shocks and foreign malfeasance.

      More drilling and more wells is a great way to keep the economy growing and prosperous. A growing and prosperous economy will solve the energy problems in due time.

      Yes, refineries are an issue, but why would anyone invest in refineries if the ability to drill is suspect. Until our domestic policy is one of “you can trust the federal government not to stomp on future drilling activities” nothing in the domestic energy industry is capable of making much sense.

    • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

      Yes, some time or the other we will run out of fossil fuels. But I want you to just check on old books and magazines. We have had a crisis in the oil industry since 1901 ! and yet more and more reserves are always found.

      furthermore, you can make petroleum products from coal, and the United states has hundreds of years worth of the stuff.

      We have also just discovered large pockets of natural gas.

      Don’t fall for that doom and gloom stuff. CHEAP FOSSIL FUELS WILL BOOST THE ECONOMY! and that will give us the increasing technology and resources to transition away from fossil fuels eventually.

      However, being poor and broke because of environmentalist and socialist policies will mean that we might not be able to transition.

    • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

      Yes, some time or the other we will run out of fossil fuels. But I want you to just check on old books and magazines. We have had a crisis in the oil industry since 1901 ! and yet more and more reserves are always found.

      furthermore, you can make petroleum products from coal, and the United states has hundreds of years worth of the stuff.

      We have also just discovered large pockets of natural gas.

      Don’t fall for that doom and gloom stuff. CHEAP FOSSIL FUELS WILL BOOST THE ECONOMY! and that will give us the increasing technology and resources to transition away from fossil fuels eventually.

      However, being poor and broke because of environmentalist and socialist policies will mean that we might not be able to transition.

    • http://vladenblog.tumblr.com Vladimir

      Refinery capacity is not the issue. The mix of crude oil feeding the refineries is 75% foreign sourced, so the issue is whether that’s a good thing and how much more dependent do we need to be before we do something about it.

      • Michael Dugas

        They are old, inefficient and the eco lobby has prevented them from building new ones or significantly refurbishing the old ones. It’s a huge issue as far as fuel goes.

    • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

      There are many years left of oil. As it gets rarer it will get more expensive. As it gets more expensive other solutions will become more economically viable.

      Oil will be replaced as a result of market forces. This transition will happen most smoothly, with less disruption to our daily lives, the farther the government stays from touching or influencing the issue.

      80 years ago wind power was building as a rural electrification force. Then came government with Rural Electrification and practically murdered the industry at birth. We might well have a vibrant and ECONOMICAL wind industry barring that interference. Today wind is NOT economical. I priced it for my house as I am in a good wind area on a ridgetop. $120,000 to replace a $400 per month bill. You can’t amortize that. Solar is worse.

      Drill here, drill there, drill everywhere, drill baby drill.
      When it begins to run dry watch the FREE market solve the issue without any effort and without any input from the central planners.

  • deevee

    Wind is unreliable, intermittent, reduces quality of life and property values and steals our tax dollars for political gain.

    More wind turbines = less jobs.

    Enough said.

    • izoneguy

      That sounded like a good idea. But it took a combination of politicians and your tax dollars to experiment. The deeper in the swamp this whole idea got the harder it was to stop and turn back. Now you take a President like Obama who is steaking a lot of his credibility on “green jobs” – and you have a receipe for a calamity that was once only a failure.

      Look no further than Al Gore and Ethenol.

      Al Gore Reverses View on Ethanol, Blames Politics for Previous Support

      http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/22/report-al-gore-reverses-view-ethanol-blames-politics-previous-support/

      HEADLINE – ten years from now -

      Obama Reverses View on Green Jobs, Blames Politics for Previous Support.

    • texasgalt

      would be an economic powerhouse instead of being on the verge of bankruptcy with an unemployment rate of over 20%.

      One of the cleanest and richest countries in the world is Norway. They didn’t get that way by promoting energy solutions that don’t work. They got that way from North Sea oil.

    • Menlo

      They actually do create more jobs, but they create them for China. Like most other things, wind turbines aren’t made in the USA.

  • cam1

    abandon wind energy as a credible source of power some time ago?

  • http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com katesmith

    Terms like ‘carbon endangerment’ and ‘global warming’ don’t test so great, so the industry mainly sells it as ‘pollution’ to fool people.
    Pollution existed before the automobile, and is something most people are against. The ‘green’ or ‘climate’ industry (which includes carbon trading, wind mills, payments to foreign thugs so countries supposedly won’t cut down as many trees, etc.), is something very different. The green or climate industry is expressly aimed at reducing alleged CO2, for which evil Americans are held mainly responsible, and about whom endless UN conventions are held to discuss minutiae as to how they will extract billions from American taxpayers this year, and every year from now on, on a fixed date, not subject to negotiation. It is our use of the automobile that has caused islands such Tuvalu and the Maldives to sink, as the UN and US government want you to believe. When they fail at those arguments, they then say, well, cleaning up ‘pollution’ is a good idea anyway, so shut up and pay. I figure why help organized crime out unless one has to, ie why say the problem is pollution when it is not?