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Bachmann Stayed Quiet on Mandatory Vaccinations While Serving Minnesota

By: Ben Howe (Diary)  |  September 13th, 2011 at 08:00 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

What’s worse than a mandatory vaccination that never actually came to law and, even if it had, contained an opt-out? According to Michele Bachmann, nothing. In fact, if you listen to Michele Bachmann these days, you’d think Governor Perry was strapping 12 year old children to tables to inject them when he takes breaks from using the other needle on inmates.

Bachmann is making the case that opposing vaccinations required by the state is fundamentally a conservative issue, which is news to many conservatives given that mandatory vaccinations have been around as long as they have, and, to my knowledge, we haven’t made it a big part of the Republican platform to oppose them. But if you listened to Bachmann last night, it’s clear that she believes this is the type of issue on which a presidential candidate must stand, must do the right thing, and cannot waver in putting this forth as a conservative principle lest we risk infecting millions of children with mental retardation.

Has this always been an enormous part of this warrior’s soul? Apparently not.

By all appearances, she felt no need to mention, much less work towards stopping, a vaccination that, by her own standards, is an assault on liberty. Even more so actually. The HPV vaccination, while called mandatory, made available an opt-out provision so that the parental rights that she felt were so paramount could be protected in this decision. The Hepatitis B vaccination in Minnesota (state law since 1993) doesn’t even require parental consent at all. And Hep B’s communicability is similar to HPV in that it is primarily transmitted through intercourse, as opposed to being an airborne illness.  Currently, no records can be found of Michele Bachmann sponsoring legislation in the Minnesota legislature to repeal the Hep B vaccination or to add a parental opt-out.

Congressman Bachmann served in the Minnesota congress for 5 years.  In all that time, she never felt quite as driven by her parental instincts and conservative nature to decry or work to reverse what now she clearly consider to be an incredible breach of conservative values.  I wonder what’s changed?  Were the children of Minnesota not important enough?  Is it only robbing a childhood if it’s vaccinations that her opponent supported but the one’s back home are just fine? Did she lack the same leadership qualities then?  She’s been touting her leadership abilities in the Congress for months, but so far, other than a state record of not opposing or even mentioning laws that are even worse than the law she’s now savaging Rick Perry over (which in his case, never became law anyway), a federal record of passing zero bills with her name on it, and campaigning with all of the tact and style of a 19 year old pop-music singer who overestimates her own importance, I’m failing to see what qualifies her for president.

But it’s not quite enough for her to attack Governor Perry for his desire to put forth a vaccination program that is not at all controversial when compared to other vaccination programs that exist with little uproar in various states (including Pennsylvania Mr. Santorum).  As Erick noted earlier today, she’s going to take a minor rhetorical win and blow it up to insane proportions that stretch even the most ardent supporters’ ability to excuse her behavior.

“BACHMANN: I’m a mom. And I’m a mom of three children. And to have innocent little 12-year-old girls be forced to have a government injection through an executive order is just flat out wrong. That should never be done. It’s a violation of a liberty interest.

That’s — little girls who have a negative reaction to this potentially dangerous drug don’t get a mulligan. They don’t get a do- over. The parents don’t get a do-over. That’s why I fought so hard in Washington, D.C., against President Obama and Obamacare.

President Obama in a stunning, shocking level of power now just recently told all private insurance companies, you must offer the morning-after abortion pill, because I said so. And it must be free of charge. That same level coming through executive orders and through government dictates is wrong.

I’ve already gone through my thoughts on Rick Perry’s actions and what they ultimately will mean to my support of him, so I feel no need to rehash it here, but having already heard a lot of discussion about candidates playing on the fears of voters, the quote in bold above is simply beyond the pale.  To compare government subsidized abortion to the moderately normal and societally acceptable practice of mandating vaccines takes hyperbole into the stratosphere and was the moment I became more than happy to burn the bridge with this person.  There is no issue of greater importance to me and many others, than the issue of abortion.  Michele Bachmann has reached a new low of wretched politics by attacking a fellow Republican candidate as though his desire to protect children from death by cancer is in anyway similar to Obama’s wish for abortions to be as uneventful as eating breakfast.  By conflating these two items, she has only served to diminish the pro-life movement for her own political gain and for that, she should be ashamed.

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  • RonLewenberg

    Hepatitis B is an easily communicable deadly disease. The same is not true for HPV. There is also a fundamental difference between a law passed by the State legislature and an Executive order made after the prompting of ones former staffer, who is now a drug company lobbyist. Vaccination legislation can be good or bad, warranted or unwarranted. But there is a fundamental difference between a law and an executive order that amounts to an abuse of power and crony capitalism.

    • brah

      HPV does not need to be a mandatory vaccine. I think the default should be to let the parents opt in, not have to opt out. Did Bachman go to far in her criticism? Absolutely, especially the mental retardation portion. But Perry went too far in mandating the vaccine and especially doing so with an executive order.

      • acat

        Derp

        To reiterate, if it’s opt-in, that means it’s optional, and neither medicare nor private insurers will cover it. So .. given a choice between buying food or spending $300 on an optional vaccination, what do most poor families choose?

        Mew

        • edintexas

          Your tax dollars via Medicaid and CHP.

          • acat

            Think about it.

            Mew

        • tommyfrisco

          Conservatives are supposed to seek the facts and the truth. Those that are attacking Perry’s EO and the Gardasil vaccine are ignoring the facts and the truth involved in the issue. Isn’t this one of the things we dislike about the liberals?

          I’d like to know more about that woman in the audience at the debate Monday night. Is she a Tea Party Member? What evidence does she have that Gardasil caused her daughter’s mental retardation? Was she invited to attend the debate by Michele Bachman? How was this woman able to have a conversation with Bachman given the fact that Bachman was on Greta and CNN within minutes after the debate? It all seems too convenient to me. I want to know more.

          I also find it interesting that Bachman, Palin, Malkin, and Coulter are so emotional about this issue? I can’t help but think there’s more to this than the distorted arguments that they are giving. Is there gender a factor?

          I especially consider Bachman’s and Palin’s accusations of crony capitalism being involved in Perry’s decision to be completely absurd. That is a very serious accusation to be making about the frontrunner for the GOP candidate particularly since they have no direct evidence that crony capitalism was involved. It’s very easy to think that they have put their own political ambitions above the truth and facts about the issue.

      • streiff

        80% of American women will have HPV by age 50. You may not think cervical cancer is very serious, but it is.

        The vax was made mandatory so it would be available to children of all income brackets. It requires about $400 for the treatment and unless it was mandatory insurance plans would not have to cover it. I know a lot of folks feel like saying “no” is too much work when it comes to protecting precious “parental rights” but you have to do something on your own.

        Perry withdrew the executive order and has said he should have sought legislation.

        • brah

          I’m a physician and yes I would opt to have my daughter vaccinated (because there is obvious benefit if your child is sexually active), but I don’t think it needs to be mandatory. The high risk subtypes are almost exclusively spread thru sexual contact and if you as a parent don’t think your daughter is going to be engaged in that behavior then you shouldn’t have to vaccinate (now that may be naive on the parent’s part, but should be their right). There are other ways to work around paying for the vaccine other than making it mandatory for everyone. And the vaccine doesn’t change ACOG’s recommendations for pap smears since it doesn’t vaccinate against all high risk subtypes of HPV. Cervical cancer has decreased significantly in the U.S. because of aggressive pap smear screening that will continue with or without the vaccine.

          • streiff

            don’t we

          • edintexas

            Somewhat indirectly accusing “brah” of fabrication regarding his employment/profession?

            It certainly seems to be the case.

          • brah

            but you can believe me or not. only mentioned it to point out that I wasn’t a crackpot anti-vaccine type.

            There are many valid reasons for the government to mandate that my kid get vaccinated for something, but ensuring that another kid gets their vaccine paid for is not one of them. Majority of states don’t mandate the vaccine, yet nearly all private insurers pay for it.

        • edintexas

          But that doesn’t absolve you of the responsibility to use accurate statistics instead of repeating the activist organization’s phony stats. 80% is BS, pure and simple. Check the CDC website for rather different stats – 50%.

          And the claim that Perry “withdrew” the EO is also BS. The Texas Legislature over-rode the Governor and instructed him that he had exceeding his authority. Anything, other than an outright apology, after that is CYA – and I don’t recollect it being reported here in TX that he actually, post facto, even withdrew the EO (since the Legislature had invalidated it). My recollection of whether he engaged in that CYA act may be faulty, but not that the Legislature voted to invalidate the EO. Perry did state that he made a mistake, then in the first debate doubled down by essentially saying he’d do the same thing again, the old “if it saves one life” routine as his excuse.

          He needs to outright say he should have made his case the people, and then taken it to the Legislature for a vote. In the debates he has, for some strange reason, been unprepared to do this (which I believe would take the issue off the table for both his political opponents and the vast majority of Republican primary voters). I hope he, and his staff, figure this out pretty soon.

      • RonLewenberg

        I don’t oppose vaccination or even mandatory vaccination. I oppose a governor and his former aid and now drug company lobbyist using executive orders for what should be laws and to make profit.

      • badspotteddog

        I know Bachman did not have scientific evidence to back up what she said. She only had testimony from one mother, and her comments about Gardasil were over the top.
        But I can tell you … I’m warning you … as a mother of a daughter who had this vaccine at 13 years old, it is terrible stuff. She had a seizure like reaction the same day, and has dealt with pain every day since. She is now 17, and it has been seriously debilitating. From what I’ve found online and on youtube, and the class action law suits … this seems to be more common than what people realize (please look it up). This vaccine’s purpose in itself is absurd. Think about it … vaccinating young girls for HPV??? Just stupid … and so not worth the risk.

      • ora09

        Erick. You keep saying I have already said what I am saying just because I am accusing you. No Sir. See if you say I have said this too. I know this blog is your property. But can’t you stand an adversarial comment?

        • ora09

          Why did you not print my deleted comments that brought me to this one? Well thanks anyway. And stop bashing Sarah. Bet you don’t run this one.

        • MrsNachos

          Um, not sure if you are referring to this, but I’ve been getting a comment duplication error on here as well, ora09, and it has nothing to do with bashing anyone. It’s a wordpress error not an erick erickson error.

    • streiff

      Hep B isn’t easily transmitted at all. It is an STD. Saying otherwise marks you as a shill.

      Sorry, you can’t square this circle. Bachmann is a freakin fraud on this issue. She was emphatically against mandated vaccines, equating them with Obamacare, last night yet she sat by while the same was done in MN..

      • edintexas

        “Transmission occurs via percutaneous and permucosal exposure to contaminated blood and body fluids. This may occur during:

        sexual contact
        birth
        injecting drug use
        some household activities such as sharing razors or toothbrushes
        invasive procedures in the community such as tattooing or body-piercing, if there has been inadequate infection control
        invasive medical or dental procedures if there has been inadequate infection control.”

        http://ideas.health.vic.gov.au/bluebook/hepatitis-b.asp

        There are other sources, but this is the first governmental source I came across in a search. Obviously it isn’t only spread sexually, and I find it likely that needle transmission is equal to, or exceeds, sexual transmission (probably with local variation). In the past 2 or 3 decades birth has been virtually eradicated in the US as a source of initial infection, though it is still the primary source in undeveloped countries where B is endemic.

    • bk

      Ref: hepb.org

      The virus is transmitted through blood and infected bodily fluids. This can occur through
      ? direct blood-to-blood contact,
      ? unprotected sex,
      ? use of un-sterile needles, and
      ? from an infected woman to her newborn during the delivery process
      …
      The hepatitis B virus can also be transmitted by sharing razors, toothbrushes, nail-clippers or earrings. If sterile needles are not used, it is possible to transmit hepatitis B through body piercing, tattooing, drug injection and acupuncture.

      Hepatitis B is NOT transmitted casually. It cannot be spread through sneezing, coughing, hugging or eating food prepared by someone who is infected.

      • runner12

        That is why it is mandatory for health care professionals to be vaccinated.

        • acat

          In other words, anyone who may end up with a laceration while clearing an airway of broken teeth?

          I’m in agreement with your statement that health care pros should be vaccinated. I’d extend it to tattoo artists as well, for their own safety.

          That said, what about good samaritans with rudimentary knowledge of first aid, such as myself? Should I seek to be vaccinated “just in case” I have to, one day, save someone’s life?

          Mew

          • runner12

            My statement was just one of fact. That is how I was vaccinated against Hep B.
            My point, as was bk’s, is that Hep. B is not transmitted like the common cold or flu. This is why it typically is not on the standard list of vaccinations for people.

            But people who may come into contact with bodily fluids such as those in health care, EMT’s, firefighters, etc. are required to be vaccinated.

            Most people who get Hep B get it via IV drug use or unfortunately through tainted blood transfusions (especially those who received transfusions back in the day).

      • RonLewenberg

        I confused the mode of transmission for Hepatitis A, which is easily transmissable, with Hep B. Oops.

        I happen to have chosen to be immunized for Hepatitis B and C. I support opt-out vaccination for HPV. But such measures should only be instituted by law, not the dictate of a governor.

        • rogershru2

          if you say you were vaccinated against Hep B & C. I do procedures on Hep C patients often and would love a Hep C vaccine for peace of mind.

  • Michael M

    if someone enters the race that we like more than Rick Perry, will it be okay to completely, totally trash Rick Perry on the front page then? Yes, she made a mistake with the mental retardation comment. But she is hardly the only conservative who has a problem with the executive order, and RS posters attacking and belittling Michele Bachmann are also attacking kindred spirits who are on YOUR team. When Perry pulled his announcement trick to eclipse Bachmann’s Iowa straw poll win, the majority of Bachmann supporters saw it as hard nosed politics and grumbled and moved on. Bachmann responds with her own hard nosed politics in the debate, and you’d think she’d just been convicted of child abuse. This is truly nuts.

    • streiff

      you can’t misrepresent a claim that vaccines can cause mental retardation.

    • Vegas_Rick

      when she, bends, stretches and ignores truth and the facts. She’s becoming desperate and shrill.

    • Bill S

      a scheduling tactic to take attention off another candidate and telling bald-faced lies about another candidate.

      Bachmann has foot in mouth disease. She needs to go back to the House and finish out her term.

    • Michael M

      clearly my kind isn’t wanted here. I know I’m hardly an old hand and won’t be missed, but if you keep kicking out conservatives who happen to not support your candidate, RedState is going to be a very barren place, indeed.

      • gekster

        I defended her and stood by her side, as MANY posters here have also.
        After last nights debate showing, there is nothing more to defend.
        Of course, if you had been around for awhile, then you would have seen that
        defense of her.
        And we don’t treat anyone around here with kid gloves.
        Just ain’t gonna happen.
        You screw up, and it gets pointed out for all to see.

        And Rick Perry has had his faults pointed out to us, and by more than just front pagers.
        But like I said, if you had been around for awhile, you would have seen that.

        And we won’t mind if you take your ball and go home.
        We have plenty of our own balls.
        (that just don’t sound right, does it).

      • Flagstaff

        Some of us just disagree. Hard cheese. It has nothing to do with what candidate you’re supporting, it’s all about whether the candidate’s statements are fair and sensible, or not.

        If you can’t tell the difference between an intentional misrepresentation and a mistake and an exaggeration, or if you don’t understand that what Michelle did was to twist the truth completely out of shape, you need to think harder.

        This comes to you from a former Bachmann admirer.

        ps. She isn’t all that beloved in the House, either, even among the freshmen.

      • ora09

        I resented Backmann attack on her fellow republicancandidate even suggesting a quid pro quo scheme. I would think primaries are for the people to select the most likelable candidate not for those candidates to invalidate each other in pursuit of their own interests. In that sense Backmann did no good to herself.But it is extemely interesting to see how the lamestream media has come in support of Perry and attacks on Backmann. And in this, backed by RedState’s Erick who as of late is atacking our conservatives women.

    • snowshooze

      Saying he would immedialy declare one to shut down as much of Obamacare as possible.
      All the rest has pretty much been run into the ground.
      Just click on the Perry topic, or dig up the old Bachmann posts and you will find aplenty of us really liked her.
      She just changed that.
      And I don’t think anyone else is getting in .
      I am completely unaware of anyone so inclined that could make any difference. Unless it is on the Democrat side.

    • Scope

      You claim that Perry “pulled his announcement trick” at the RedState gathering, just to eclipse Bachmann’s Iowa straw poll win. If I am not mistaken, Perry was invited to the RedState gathering long before the Iowa straw poll had taken place, and it was already a leaked secret before the Iowa straw poll, that he would announce at RedState.

      Is it not true that most expected that because it was a straw poll, that Ron Paul, who had spent the most money in order to win the straw poll, was expected to win the straw poll, as he has always has a knack for buying straw polls? Or, did you already know of some secret that guaranteed Bachmann the win? I have heard that Romney helped her in that endeavor.

      So in short, RedState had the freakin’ nerve to hold their gathering on the same day as the Iowa straw poll, they held Perry down by the neck with boots and AK47′s, and forced him to announce that day. RedState was in the conspiracy, and forced Perry to announce on that day, because RedState hates Michele Bachmann, and wanted to make sure that she was knocked off her momentary pedestal, and how dare Perry take the wind out of her sails, and, how dare RedState agree to be a part of the conspiracy.

      That is exactly what your post sounds like, and it is irrational.

  • Flagstaff

    I have lost much respect for Ms. Bachmann in recent weeks because of her apparent opportunism at the expense of common sense. I can understand her basic point, but she simply tries to carry it too far.

    A “forced” vaccination program isn’t forced if there is an opportunity for the parents to reject it, especially if the program is never enacted into law.

    I guess a Ponzi scheme isn’t technically a Ponzi scheme either, if it’s government sponsored, but I don’t think Perry is trying to mislead anybody, as it’s pretty clear he’s referring to the unsustainable income/outgo process in Social Security, while I do think MB is trying to convince us that Perry is the second coming of Mao. It ain’t workin’.

  • carolina

    re the gardisol vacination. It was reported to be very safe and it was mentioned that ‘they’ are going to start giving it to boys also – as boys are also suceptible to this cancer. In addition, it was pointed out that ages 11 – 12 was the best time to give this vacination for effectiveness.
    Bachmann was made to look pretty rabid and untrustworthy on this subject.

    I do think Perry would be wise to point out that his EO never took effect, and that he was mainly trying to get this vacination affordable for those that wanted it.

    Maybe Perry will also point out the MN hep B vacination, that does not even allow an opt out.
    All that said, I don’t think most people will find this to be a ‘make or break’ issue.

    • http://www.fpcr.org balloonjuice

      contract cervical cancer for the simple reason that they don’t have a cervix. What they *can* contract, and what Gardasil will help prevent, is genital warts (via HPV).

      But yes, Carolina, you are correct. The plan is to make the vaccination available to boys as well as to girls.

    • Flagstaff

      We were just wondering why the vaccine wasn’t being offered to boys.

      • unclefred

        A male friend of mine almost had to have his larynx removed because of polyps on his vocal cords. Following his third surgery to remove the reoccurring polyps they found a antiviral that, at least for now, stopped the cancer. Cervical cancer get the media focus, but there are other consequences of HPV that are NOT gender specific. Plus vaccinating men helps to eliminate a transmission vector.

  • jlsankot

    that Romney asked Michele to take Romney’s side and gang up on Perry and therefore there would be two of them making their points against Perry at the debate.

    I have no respect for Romney and am disappointed in Michele for going along with this idea. Unfortunately, it tells me she is not a leader, but a follower. I’m afraid this will be a hugh strike against her.

    • Ann_W

      You don’t know where you heard it, but you’ll take the opportunity to ding Romney for the information… Makes sense to me.

  • mickeydpekinil

    Or is it about the desire to control the people through executive power.
    Perry believes the government should compel everyone to accept his medicine (whether that is growing government, raise taxes, take vaccine etc.) because he believes it is good for you or the state.
    He said he should not have done it that way then declares he will do the same thing to get rid of Obama care.
    The quest for power will compel one to say anything, ?Read my lips?.

  • shorty

    God knows I don’t have a quest for power;but, Read My Lips…I’m for getting rid of Obamacare and I wouldn’t have an objection to Perry [if elected] accomplish this by executive order or any other legal means. When I think of the financial expense and abuse of our Constitutional rights, this monstrosity called Obamacare makes literally makes me ill….and fighting mad.

  • gunslingr45

    was wrong to harp on it in the debate. Rick said he wished he had a do over on it and I am surprised he did not say it was for insurance reasons which is what I had read.
    Having said that, this place should have been called Perry Redstate because that is what it has turned into.
    I am loving her because other than this one thing she still had most the answers I am looking for. Well her and Herman. Team maybe?
    Let the Michele Bachmann supporters bashing begin!

    • Scope

      She actually lied to the people in reiterating to the people that it causes mental retardation. She opened herself up for a lawsuit from Merck if they choose to go that path. And the crony capitalism charges against Perry indicated that he was some sort of criminal who is on the take. Bachmann herself has taken federal government monies for the “family farm” that she claimed income from, and her husbands business got federal grant money, which she claims he didn’t benefit from because it went to train his employees. You know the saying about living in glass houses…

  • gunslingr45

    What was Ron (bring em home at any cost) Paul talking about when he said Perry raised his taxes? They have no incime tax right?

    • Scope

      property taxes which are not set by Perry. They are set by the locality where you live. He just keeps throwing stuff out there to plant seeds out doubt in people’s minds, whether they are true or accurate or not.

  • miconservative

    The American Academy of Pediatrics would like to correct false statements made in the Republican presidential campaign that HPV vaccine is dangerous and can cause mental retardation. There is absolutely no scientific validity to this statement. Since the vaccine has been introduced, more than 35 million doses have been administered, and it has an excellent safety record.

    The American Academy of Pediatrics, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the American Academy of Family Physicians all recommend that girls receive HPV vaccine around age 11 or 12. That’s because this is the age at which the vaccine produces the best immune response in the body, and because it’s important to protect girls well before the onset of sexual activity. In the U.S., about 6 million people, including teens, become infected with HPV each year, and 4,000 women die from cervical cancer. This is a life-saving vaccine that can protect girls from cervical cancer

  • grazibella

    Wow, you guys are really going all in for Perry! It’s pretty disgusting to give him a pass on mandating a vaccine for little girls for sexual diseases. All the while making a pretty penny off it. FYI, I’m not a Bachmann supporter. But I am a Sarah Palin supporter, and she was right in going after Perry very aggressively on Greta’s show the other night. Can’t wait to see more of that when she finally gets in. No one gets a pass in Palin’s world. It’s called principles.

    • izoneguy

      Who also took contributions from Merck.

      The schreeching of Palin and Bachmann is beyond annoying as are
      the crazy rantings of their supporters.

      If Romney is elected or god forbid Obama…..
      I will be waiting for that parental opt-out for
      abortions for minors.

      The left has no problem with aborting perfectly good humans,
      but god forbid that they get a shot that might prevent cancer.

      You can’t make this stuff up.

    • onemovoter

      of accusing someone of doing something wrong when you have no proof?

      She should know better than to do that. She was the target of so many attacks like that, being accused of all sorts of things that weren’t true but were still pushed.

      For her to go out and say there was something dirty there when she doesn’t have the proof positive, is highly ironic, and downright low in my book. Palin should know better.

      All Palin had to say about the issue was that it was a legit issue to bring up and that Perry had to answer, and leave it at that. That is different than what she said. Palin lost my last bit of respect after that. Not withstanding the rest of the crap she was going on about.

  • izoneguy

    By Romney or the GOP establishment.
    She is probably millions is debt and has no path
    to the nomination. So she becomes the
    HPV bomber. She is full of crap.

    It will be a distinct pleasure to see her head explode
    when Perry wins Iowa and steamrolls Romney.

    • acat

      that he decides to take up another hobby. Collecting antique roadsters or private islands or something.

      Mew

  • msjallen

    people speak before they get the facts. That includes Palin and Bachmann. I am losing respect for them. I consider myself a conservative and believe that women can have a place in government but they must not get emotional about their beliefs or actions. This makes them look desperate not able to make good decisions. I do believe Palin did a good job in Alaska but I also believe that Bachmann is not ready to be the president of the USA.

  • rogershru2

    Between her crony capitalism comment and the rest of her attack on the gardasil issue, she will have a hard time getting my vote in the primary. That portion of the debate made her look willfully ignorant, despite the facts of the issue, just to be on the attack against Perry.

  • cwfoster

    about the pros and cons of Guardasil aside. Let’s examine the underlying PRINCIPLE at issue here. A) SHOULD Perry have attempted this by exectutive fiat? NO. DID it in fact become law? NO WAS there a provision not to have your child vaccinated if you chose not to? YES. The second point makes it a moot point as far as actual poor governance goes.

    As long as we are on the subject of PRINCIPLES… DID Romney also refer to Social Security as a sham ? YES Does anyone have any REAL doubts that SS is basically insolvent and will drag the entire country down within the next 20-40 years if something isn’t done to drastically reform it? NOT that I hear.

    So Bachmann and Romney have both taken Perry’s calls to reform SS and equated that with throwing Grandma off a cliff (That sounds strangely familiar)
    Bachmann attacks Perry on an issue that she also did nothing to address her her own state when she was a state legislator.

    SO WHAT do you call someone who abandons their own principles for the sake of political expedience? A DEMOCRAT!

    (reconcile THAT!)

  • carolynr

    I’m sorry….I had carpel tunnel surgery and didn’t comment on this….so here is what I posted in reply to Bachmann and also the immigration issue. Some of you might not like it…but facts, don’t lie.

    1. Perry said that he had gone about this the wrong way. He should have done this through the legislature, not executive order. So…the man has the humility to recognize when he is wrong and right…how refreshing.
    2. The way he went about the vaccine was wrong. Now, here is where I have a real problem with Bachmann…and I don’t care to even listen to her drivel any longer. It did, in the final analysis go through the legislature. THERE WAS NO MANDATE…BECAUSE MANDATE DON’T HAVE OPT-OUTS. Perry, time and time again said there was an opt-out….what is it about that word that people do not seem to understand.
    3. He got a $5,000 contribution from Merck. Well…do you know how much Bachmann’s husband got in a government grant to try to change gays to straights? That was my money and really…I don’t think it is the government’s business to get into that.

    Concerning immigration. I know that he did not say that Texas has a responsibility to Texas. First let me preface this…I am a female, while voter and a Conservative. Now for the question: Cubans come over to this country and if they hit dry land…they are citizens or can become citizens. Are we treating them differently than Mexicans? (2) Perry said that “if they were working towards their citizenship, they were permitted in-state tuition”. We are talking about people applying for citizenship. (3) Are you tired to hitting ONE for English…well, I am and if this will help Latinos assimilate into our society so I don’t have to push that button (which is not the fault of Perry but our LIBERAL LAWMAKERS)…then let them learn English. (4) This is how this election is going to shake out: Most White Males – Republican, 1/2 White Females – Republican; Cubans – Republican; Black Americans – 85% Democrat (down from 92%); Young People – split on parties, unless we give hem an option on SS. HOWEVER, WE CANNOT WIN THE ELECTION WITHOUT LATINOS. So, you either want to save the Republic or give it back to Obama. (5) I have no doubt that if elected, Perry would be very, very tough on crime. Perry’s Texas and its’ interaction with Mexicans is a FAR CRY from Jerry Brown’s CA where anything goes and nobody suffers consequences. So, I believe there would be deportation if Perry were President…we know where Obama stands…NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. (6) THERE WILL NOT BE A FENCE BUILT. We have said it and said it…WE DON’T HAVE THE MONEY TO BUILD IT. However, bring home our troops and use the National Guard and drones and we can stop illegal immigration. (7) Are you aware of the demographics in Texas? 36% of the population are Mexican, either here legally or working on green cards/visas. 48% are children of those people, going to school 1st-12th, 68% are in pre-Kindergarten. So our choice, round up all the people here and deport them…ALL OF THEM….Of course….remember, we need their votes (they lean Republican because of religion and work ethic) or we find some way to allow a certain percentage every year. You and I are minorities. Perry’s idea is instead of having all those people work as migrant workers…why not RAISE THEIR EDUCATIONAL STANDARDS…and instead of them getting paid the minimum wage…perhaps with a better education (they are here anyway) they can contribute more as a percentage of income because they are educated. That way…everyone wins…the government collects more and like Perry said…they are not on the government dole. So….which would you prefer…Detroit’s way of doing thing, i.e., WELFARE, or educating people to contribute to society? No matter what anyone says…we have illegals here. Should the criminals go back and also try to find out how many and then deport a percentage and let them apply for citizenship like everyone else…I think so. I’d like things like they were…but they are not…so let’s solve the problem.

  • snowshooze

    Very good Carolynr.
    You just plain will not see any sort of extremest view representation in representation in regard to Immigration as they would never, ever get elected.
    Sort of like expecting to come up with a true conservative in Massechusetts.
    I hope your recovery is coming along ok, as I understand it, it is gonna be a couuple weeks.. before it starts being better.
    Anyway… Acat has gone to offering recipes at each idiotic remark on these topics, and the way she is going, I will have to add another shelf for my collection….

  • http://changingwind.org Toddy Littman

    You seem to be arguing on the basis of fantasies.

    This is the First Issue, that I believe Conservatives would be concerned with, that Rick Perry made an executive order to force gardasil on these girls, http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/2292/.

    That’s not the legislature or anyone else deciding. It’s the same as if Obama issued an executive order mandating cap & trade, etc., and that’s the issue.

    The legislature, in fact, had to overturn this whole mess, which, at the time of Mr. Perry’s “knee-jerk” issuance of an executive order, there was little known as to side effects or other possible issues with gardasil, http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/06/04/rick_perrys_gardasil_problem_110089-2.html. And apparently the Journal of the American Medical Association had some remaining questions at the time as well, http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/08/19/more-questions-about-mercks-gardasil-published-in-jama/.

    Whether these have been proven right or wrong, isn’t answered by current studies, but by 20 years from now, if gardasil is being marketed by 1-800-BAD-DRUG to tell people of some settlement trust fund, after the damage is done.

    And here is Perry, showing those signs of being the real “Obama lite” once more, in chiding republican legislatures for rebuking him, http://www.chron.com/news/article/Perry-yields-on-HPV-vaccines-chides-lawmakers-1830709.php though he goes a long with it, he has no choice since it’s the People speaking through the legislature.

    The second issue is related to Merck and it’s former Perry Chief of Staff turned lobbyist, Mike Toomey, and how the vaccine was discussed the same day that Merck decided to donate to the Perry campaign, http://austin.ynn.com/content/top_stories/179645/perry-s-staff-discussed-vaccine-on-day-merck-donated-to-campaign.

    For me, this is shades of the Progressive Chicago Way, and what Michele Bachmann did or didn’t do in 1993 matters as much as Rick Perry having been a democrat promoting Al gore in his past life. People grow, change, and learn. However, it does appear that Mr. Perry retains some Progressive aspects.

    And to your broader point about Vaccines, in general, the disease they target is usually one that has proven to be detrimental to masses of the population, and estimates are some 2 billion people worldwide have been affected by Hepatitus B, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_B. A Dr. Blumberg discovered Hepatitis B in 1976 apparently, http://www.hepb.org/about/blumberg.htm. The first Hepatitus B vaccine became available in 1981 with the aid of the Doctor who discovered the virus itself, so 12 years of tests and results had passed before Minnesota’s law, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_B_vaccine.

    Royal Raymond Rife was a pioneer in treating cancer, who claimed cancer is a virus in the 1920s, and cured 30 of 30 people in the 30s through using a beam of light. To this day Rife’s theory has not been accepted, yet, according to this article, the papillomavirus is more an idea, that a virus could cause cancer, proven in 1935, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papillomavirus. The HPV vaccine was approved by the FDA in June of 2006, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardasil. Governor Perry’s executive order was issued in February of 2007. 6 months from the time of FDA approval to issuing an executive order is irresponsible.

    These are the issues of concern as a conservative. Michele Bachmann may not be able to articulate them well, and certainly may be making her best effort to add elements of drama that are making it even more difficult to explain as that’s what campaigns do. But, when you take out the hype and look at the facts, of Mr. Perry’s actions, as a conservative, I am glad Michele Bachmann brought this up.

    Special thank you to Michelle Malkin for her excellent articles regarding the Texas gardasil issue and Rick Perry generally:

    -http://michellemalkin.com/2011/08/16/rick-perrys-bad-obama-style-medicine/

    -http://michellemalkin.com/2011/08/18/plumbing-the-rest-of-the-perry-record/

    Lastly, I have landed on Michele Bachmann as my candidate. She seems to have done as much as she can to help the Tea Party, she’s went against the GOP, she’s made mistakes like we all do, and, she seems to have learned from them. She’s no more tongue tied than Obama or Biden, and people will make their mistakes, Obama’s “corpseman” comes to mind (search Youtube), or Obama’s grandfather/uncle who helped with Auschwitz, http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2008/05/obama-repeats-auschwitz-gaffe-on-memorial-day/ — a lie I am hoping he repeats now, in his second campaign.

    And she may not be the brightest candidate, even seeming awkward in her own way, but, she is the only candidate I know of to silence the 2016 democratic party campaign rhetoric we know is going to come:

    ?The Democratic Party has always been the party for all colors & all minorities, striving to bring social justice to America and all of our lives. Barack Obama made great strides in bringing this about, and it was the Democratic Party that brought America the first African-American President, which is a great stride in ending racism in America, enough that we can shift our focus. This election it will be the Democratic Party who once again brings you a first, the first woman President, to bring social justice to the gender gap.?

    I wish to destroy this potential, and decimate the democratic party who will use such a cause to rally their people. Without this they will be needing to “stretch it” to have an underlying cause to vent their hostility over via their political activism and all that, and I don’t believe “the first gay President” will capture the same en mass support.

    Another point to consider is that we already have an extremist in the White House, a Progressive Terrorist as Commander-In-Thief, and Bachmann has been labeled an extremist by the, so-called, mainstream media, so, to me, she is the perfect candidate to counter Obamanomics, Obamaism, Obamamania, Oblahblahblahbama anything.