« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

MEMBER DIARY

Could Hillary Return in 2012?

Rob Long uses two datapoints — the stunning decline of Barack Obama’s popularity, and the rise of Hillary Clinton’s — as the basis for a timeline of the unthinkable: could Hillary Clinton challenge Obama in 2012?

There’s certainly space for a McGovernesque movement here — I think the important datapoint here is the activist left’s fundamental rejection by the White House, borne out in the San Francisco protests which united Tea Partiers and Code Pinkers. Obama has disappointed his base in so many areas, either by failing to keep his promises or by dragging his feet on things they view as moral imperatives — on health care, on Gitmo, on Afghanistan, on security policy, on DADT, and on any number of other policies. There will be ramifications for that disloyalty.

This is a more serious question than you might think, regardless whether Hillary really does write a bestseller in “Delivering the Goods: What I Learned at the State Department, What I Learned from Main Street.” I personally think there will be a challenge, though perhaps not from HRC herself, though her angles — competence, foreign policy acumen, a call to break the last barrier for womanhood, and vindication on the spoiled promises of hope and change — are rather appealing.

I honestly think there is an opening here for the return of Howard Dean. A strong ideological progressive who had an opening to gain the nomination in 2004 before his very public gaffe (amazingly, there was no YouTube then), he has little to lose and has already established a national network, and elected a great many Democrats with his broad national strategy. He has also been the most openly critical of any potential 2012 candidate of this administration on nearly all the areas I listed above. Clinton would need to leave the State Department in short order after the midterms, and even then, she would’ve had more of an opening if Obama had tacked further left on his foreign policy, not right.

The real question at this point ought to be: who does Tim Gill want to give money to? Money makes things happen. (“That’s why they call it money.”). You have to have someone with a preexisting money source or a motivated base. That is a very short list — but if unemployment is still at ~10%, and Obama’s numbers are still average at best, someone on that list will almost certainly make a challenge.

Follow me to freedom on Twitter.

Get Alerts

COMMENTS

  • melissatx

    suit in office at the urging of the DNC.

    He will have moved to the UN by then, anyway.

  • RedBeard

    That, and the baggy pantsuits, make up the sum total of the differences between them.

    • JSobieski

      in any case,both are “aliens” in the sense that they don’t relate to normal everyday Americans, Hillary is just better at faking it. Bill on the other hand, he really does enjoy the handshakes and sob stories.

      • RedBeard

        But that’s it. ;-)

  • http://lenamargita.com txgeekgirl

    The only real relevence Hillary has is as a sell out. She allowed the Democratic party to push her around and down and give her an absolutely worthless position doing nothing.

    • izoneguy

      I am sure there are plenty of people inside of the Obama administration looking for a meal ticket….
      Deep in the bowels of the White House are plans to keep all
      contenders for a 2012 democratic nomination at bay.
      And somewhere is a 20 something guy or gal lapping it all up….

  • smitch61

    She has just spent more than a year on Obama’s team, enforcing the Obama doctrine. What the heck will she run on? Her undying love for Israel?.. She does not have a chance in hell anymore.

  • ZootSuit

    Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee in 2012. Book it!

    In fact, if anyone seriously thinks otherwise, I am seriously willing to bet money.

    Quite frankly, I also think Barack Obama has a better than even chance of being re-elected. As I have said many times before, the problem with the Republican Party is that it must nominate someone to run against him. And frankly, All of the major potential Republican nominees mentioned at this point — Romney, Palin, Huckabee, Gingrich — have major problems in a general election.

    The best hope for the GOP is someone relatively unknown at the moment. But the problem with a relative unknown is that they must raise an awful lot of money in a very short time in order to be viable.

    • ZootSuit

      Despite things like health care reform, the BP oil spill, that barack Obama are actually not bad!

      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

      Even Fox News has him at +1!

      Even with the GOP likely to pick up eight Senate seats in 2010 (my estimate) and a majority in the House (again, my estimate), even now and in 2012 Barack Obama would personally be a very formidable candidate.

  • http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com/ reaganiterepublicanresistance

    Watch Hillary to do a Bobby Kennedy in 2012- everybody knows there’s no real loyalty, and Hill surely hasn’t lost any of her blinding ambition… why go down with the USS Obamamania?

    Of course RFK was Attorney General, and when President Johnson’s popularity started to slip, Kennedy turned on him and ran for President against him in the 1968 primaries. So anyone telling you today that the Democrats wouldn’t run a serious primary challenge against Obama in 2012 -which I have heard often on lib blogs and elsewhere- clearly has no idea what they’re talking about.

    The attempting hiring of Sid Blumenthal by Hillary -nixed by Obama- was interesting, to say the least- about as loyal a Clintonite Rottweiler as one could imagine…

    Barack Obama’s personality quirks and narcissism bring predictable behaviors and reactions… the kinds of things that one’s political opponents tend to take notice -and full advantage- of.

    You can be sure that Hillary has- and is planning (or scheming, lol) accordingly.

    Revenge is a dish best served COLD!

  • p3orion

    I’ve expected it all along. In fact I believe it’s why the Clinton attack machine never made anything of Obama’s brith certificate, past associations, and other woes: so she wouldn’t make herself a Democrat pariah the way Ralph Nader did when his Green Party candidacy handed the election to George Bush.

    I’m sure that after November, we’ll see Hillary “oh so reluctantly” announce she’s leaving the State Department so she can run for President “for the good of the country.”

    God help us, even SHE will seem good after four years of Obama.

  • sccrenny

    her campaign. Watch Carville and other Clinton cronies as they undermine Obama more and more openly. Hill herself is starting to diverge from the Obama orthodoxy. Note the “leak” of the lawsuit against Arizona? Carville’s rampage on the oil leak?

    She will select just the right thing politically to openly oppose Obama on and either resign or be fired (preferably fired in her strategy). That will be her launching pad for running against him in 2012.

  • Kayla

    I think Obama is toast in 2012. But I could see Hillary rising from the dead saying ” I told you so” and getting the Dem nomination. She was a tenacious campaigner. The White House would be a fight for the GOP.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    folks realize she is just as big a lib as Obama.

  • Charles Cianfrocca

    Captain Kickass is losing it so fast and so obviously, that even the rank and file Democrat may have given him up for lost by the next election and be quite open to going with someone else. Would WE renominate someone as politically dead if the shoe were on the other foot?

    It’s an academic argument, to me, though. Zero will already not be President before it’s time to run for re-election, so that the Dems will be nominating someone else, is a given. Who else would it be but Hillary? Biden? C’mon.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I suspect that Obama will have more than one dem primary challenger and that it is likely that Hillary won’t be one of them.

  • Leopard1996

    Is that according to the D’Kos, George Soros, Huffpo crowd is that Hillary is not left enough for them, and is more practical than they would like, and will go with the rock star over someone who could possibly advance their causes further.

    I honestly believe that the far left used Obama to get there names in the history books and will be hanging him as a sacrificial lamb in 2012 for another “rock star” especially after November 2010 wipes out the pull of Pelosi, Reid, et.al.

    After that they can take the credit of electing the 1st African-American president, but make damn sure that another African-American gets nowhere near the white house again.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    …is that of every other potential D candidate’s major problem; the President is quietly revising the primary delegate process to make it effectively impossible for any candidate to do to him what he did to Hillary Clinton.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    make her every bit as left as Alinsky would desire with no real, practical difference with Obama. Maybe she would have gone slower and kept America sleep-walking toward Gomorrah like we had been since the 30s. I;m glad we had Obama wake up tea drinkers!

  • Return to Revolution

    though I’m hopeful. Recall Clinton’s approval was lower still going in to the 94 midterms (41%, not sure which pollster). Obviously, there are lots of differences- namely, the thought of Obama triangulating the way Clinton did looks unlikely. Nonetheless, a Republican majority in 2010, while sorely needed, will improve Obama’s chances in 2012. If his chances improve at all, the prospects of a serious primary challenge go way down. There’s too much time, too many things that can happen this early in the presidency.

  • Achance

    in having elected the cool, smart, Black dude. If there is any primary challenge at all it will be from the far left as a foil to allow Comrade Obama to look more centrist. That person does a great service for the Party, gets some name ID for later, and gets a czar job or something that doesn’t require confirmation.

    Frankly, other than some unpredicted externality that causes him to rather dramatically step on it, I don’t think he can be beat in ’12 and we should be worrying about our states, about reapportionment, and about getting control of the Congress. BHO is President because of a great paroxyam of White guilt and youthful ignorance and foolishness. I don’t think the yutes will be out in force like in ’08, but the White guilt is still strong enough that all the moderates/independents/suburban women won’t reject their ’08 decision. Nobody will be throwing their panties at the stage this time, but they’ll still go vote for him. We on the right will still be having our purity contests and circular firing squads, so he gets four more years. Hopefully, it will be four years of complete frustration for the Left as he has to deal with a Republican Congress and a bunch of Republican governors and AGs who busy themselves putting his thug friends in the unions and nonprofits in jail.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • Darin_H

    It all depends on Obama’s numbers inside the Democrat party. As long as he holds to 50% +1 of Democrats, he’ll get renominated. And as Moe said above, he’s changing the primary rules to suit him. It’ll be very hard to unseat him.

  • IJB

    The Far Left is increasingly dissatisfied these days – they want someone who’s going to abolish private property and stick Christians and conservatives in camps, and they get increasingly frustrated when none of that happens.

    I think a challenge to Obama from at least Howard Dean is virtually carved in stone at this point. And I don’t see them getting together and singing “Kumbaya” after that – the schisms in the Dem party are only growing wider over time.

    Oh, and Barry’s *definitely* beatable in 2012 – as any Poli Sci expert will tell you, the primary factors in reelections are the economic stats. As the econ stats still look to be in the dumps by the time 2012 rolls around, the American people will drop Barry like a bad habit.

  • samsapeel

    How about Bob Etheridge instead?

    Bob who?

  • gwalt

    He was never going to run in 2012.

    Why did she take SecState?

    He promised her he wouldn’t run and would step aside for another historic “first”.

    Her biggest stumbling block, other than being white, was she didn’t have foreign policy chops. Now she does.

    Ofullofhimself has waaayyyyy too much money waitingbfor him post-prez. Billions of Mooslim money for his library.

    Now I’m sure he’s a shareholder in Petrobas thanks to daddy Soros investing and Odoogie sending 2 Billion for drilling, not exploration, drilling.

    No way he was going to run in 2012. He doesn’t have it in him to stay on the job for so long.

    He’ll campaign like he is for a few months, collect millions from his fem-bots, take the money and leave. Kerry kept 25 million from his 2004 campaign.

    If you ask for your money back, you are a racist.

  • streetwise

    They will outvictim the Obots!

  • Marcus_Traianus

    Public opinion is finicky and things can change overnight in politics. However, the current White House occupants inclinations, instincts and hard core ideological will be pursued with an unwavering zealousness. He is the contemporary King Midas with a twist: everything he touches turns into horse manure. There will just be too much working against him to make any chameleon moves effective come our next election. The leagues of unemployed, failed businesses, bankrupt “rich” people, egregious debt situation, drifting anti-military policy and every other failure of the boy president will not evaporate overnight. Frankly, the only thing standing in the way of his exit will be if a stupid bunch of Republicans who currently occupy our leadership are still in place.

    That latter bit aside, they could dig up FDR or Elmer Fudd for that matter and run them as the next Democratic candidate for SCOTUS. If events continue on the current trajectory the people won’t trust a Democrat to walk their dog.

  • Ausonius

    were never about to disappear into retirement.

    I believe about a year ago a columnist wondered why so much campaign money for H. R. Clinton was still in a campaign organization’s funds, and why the organization had not officially been shut down.

    To be sure, as mentioned above, Soros and his one-world group of billionaires may prevent her rise as much as they can.

    And also to be sure, I do not see Dems booting out the “cool black dude” they elected.

    However, that might not stop H. R. Clinton: you don’t want an ego to go to waste! :)

    Republicans might want to see her split the party and lose the nomination: they might NOT want to see her be the nominee.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    Didn’t say it was a good thing, in fact, it could be a very bad thing…wounded, encircled President and all that…but what might be (is) might be (is). A lot of pent up vanity and anger there.

  • Scope

    for Soros gaining so much power in the Democrat party, from back when Bill was the pres. I believe Soros got caught up in 2004 with Obama with his Convention speech that year. That was the year the O was also running for Ill. senator. Soros hedged his bet between the O and the Hill, and would have backed Hill if she were the nominee. I think Soros saw a ruthless unprincipled idiot, willing to lie cheat and steal his way into whatever Soros wanted him to do. As long as the O stayed on the teleprompter, he says what Soros wants him to say. Off teleprompter, he’s a total screw up. Soros, and many other far lefties wanted the dirty deed of socialism done by now. In addition, Soros wanted Crap and Tax done first, before Obamacare, but, Climategate happened, and now there’s no guarantee it will ever happen. If Crap and Tax was already passed by the time of Climategate, it would have not mattered. Soros is not getting his monies worth, and the O knows that. The O is running scared and is using the oil spill as proof of his ultra-toughness, but, he screwed up the crisis, and he will never recover from that. Soros knows that.

  • louisiana

    No way will O step down unless his handlers make him, & I don’t think that will happen. As a narcissist, he feels he’s entitled to the Presidency & would never willingly give up the spotlight & perks (AF1, golf,etc.) TheD’s will still play the race card & by 2012, will have all the mechanics in place to steal elections (SOS project, hispanic votes,etc.). Hillary wants the Pres. as much as Bill wants every woman in a blue dress, so the D’s will offer her the VP spot in 2012, & will promise her a clear run for 2016.

  • gwalt

    Been there, done that. He will still be called Mr. President for life, Secret Service detail for life and I’m sure will demand more trappings than any other previous president or they will be called racists.

    Why did she step down from being a Senator? Everyone has asked that question and no one has come up with a good explanation.

    SecState was a step down. They hate each other. No way she is waiting until 2016 and no way in hell does he have it in him to do this 8 years.

    His health is not that great. McCain gave a full medical report. Odoogie had a note from his doctor. Why?

    He’s not well.

  • JamesSmith130

    when he mentions Howard Dean. In fact Dean might be secretly backed by the Clintons, who would get in only after Dean has sufficiently destroyed Obama enough that the Clintons can justify that they are not “trying to tear Obama down.”

  • Achance

    They can make a lot of noise but a Dean run would be like Kennedy’s run in ’80. A lot of sound and fury but ultimately signifying nothing. They won’t sing kumbaya, but they’ll vote right; most of the Democrat Party hates each other anyway but they can get together for self-interest.

    And barring some unforseen externality, a hundred bucks says well be saying President Obama in February ’13, thoght I think we have a good shot at making him deal with a Republican Congress and a lot of hostile Republican governors and AGs.

  • JamesSmith130

    “they want someone who?s going to abolish private property and stick Christians and conservatives in camps”

    Hillary and Obama had two different immediate agendas. Obama wanted to force his “socialist paradise” on us. Hillary, however, wanted to get revenge against those who impeached her husband, and would have been very likely to put conservatives in camps by abusing the Patriot Act.

  • louisiana

    on his deathbed, or the powers behind the throne toss him. I’m sure they have enough damaging info on him that they can leak to force him out, but O would have to appear to be stepping down willingly. The D’s have to have the black vote, & I just don’t see Hillary motivating them enough to turn out in the same numbers as O’s candidacy did. I think the R’s will take the House this year, which will give O/ D’s the “goat” they need. Hillary as VP will bring back into the fold those in the lefty base who are disillusioned with the O (feministas,etc.)

  • Scope

    probably not good. If he released those reports, we would all know he was unhinged from reality. Also, why won’t he release his college records either? Would we see he was stupid and unhinged.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    4 years of more liberal actions to add to her previous life’s work.

  • Scope

    for his decision to go through with punishing the Fla. and Michigan voters by not seating their delegates, because they moved their primary dates up. Both states backed Clinton. Hillary made a really big stink of that by loudly bashing Dean in saying that he was not allowing those state’s voters voices to be heard. The Clinton’s don’t get mad, they get even.

    I don’t see Dean challenging the O. He worked hard to get the O elected. If the O backed out and doesn’t run for some reason, I guess it’s possible. Otherwise, what would he say, sorry for the mess I created, but, please give me a chance.

  • redneck_hippie

    mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright”

    That is, after all, how the first one did it.

  • JSobieski

    (1) had a coherent answer to the question of why he should be elected President or
    (2) had the ability to mount a BlueDog-type challenge from the right of Carter that projected some image of strength

    I agree with you though that there won’t be a serious challenge (if Dean were to challenge, he would be declaring himself to be non-serious). However, I only think Obama has a 50/50 chance of winning re-election at this point.

    Remember that besides Clinton, no Democrat has served two full terms since FDR. The reason? Politicians can lie about they will do, but people see what they actually do.

    A lot of Obama voters are embarassed by their votes. I listen to non-political morning shows on the radio here in Michigan. People actually call in to apologize for their votes.

  • IJB

    1) I didn’t say the Far Left would win – I said they’ll definitely *run* somebody.

    2) It remains to be seen whether they won’t win – the Dem Party is shifting further and further to the Left. I wouldn’t rule out Dean’s chances in a state like NH just yet. If Dean can even make it close in NH, Obama will be forced to “LBJ” it.

    As to 2012, I’m not willing to put money down yet, because it’s too far out. Get back to me in the latter half of 2011, and I’ll be able to say with much greater certainty what his chances are…

  • ZootSuit

    And I am perfectly willing — no, wanting — to take any of the side bets that you can’t handle.

  • Achance

    want to send in a resume and a check yet. Palin won’t run because, she’s figured out how to get rich and not do anything really measurable; don’t think she could win anyway. The rest are dull as dirt. I like Fred Thompson, but as a campaigner, he’s dull as dirt too. The only one I really like as a practical politician and political manager that understands government is Rudy, but the litmus test crowd on our side of the ditch will have none of him; they’d rather have somebody who’s against them 100% of the time than someone who’s only with them 80% of the time. See Erick’s stupidity about the Alaska Senate race, above, as an example.

  • Brian_Roastbeef

    But there is no way he would have beaten Reagan.

    This in part is why, despite my fear of people rethinking Hillary Clinton, I’m not certain if this matters. If the country is in such poor shape that an incumbent President would be defeated in a primary, then the party overall is likely to take a big hit in November, whoever their standard bearer may be.

    Nevertheless, it does depend on who we run. Ted Kennedy wouldn’t have beaten Reagan in 1980, but he might have had a chance against Gerald Ford.

    We need somebody who appeals to both the Tea Party crowd and independents. We need somebody seen as both intelligent and competent. Right now, I’m not certain who that can be. The 2012 primaries will be most important for us. Each notable potential candidate has challenges they would have to overcome in public perception. Otherwise, we’ll need somebody to make a name quickly, something that the GOP tends not to do in Presidential primaries.

  • JSobieski

    We have a lot of governors who would be strong candidates. I am not worried about finding “the” person at this point.I don’t think it will be a re-tread and I will vote against all re-treads unless it comes down to a battle between re-treads, in which case I will drink myself into a deep stupor so I won’t care about anything.

  • JoeG

    The crowd in 2008 was exceptionally dull. Palin was the exception on dullness, but I think you’re correct in writing her political epitaph.

    We have a good field of Republican governors to pick from, and I expect in about a year there will be several getting on the national stage.

  • Scope

    according to a CNN poll. I ask again, why poll their popularity unless a 2012 run was a possibility? The D’s always do a dry run to gauge their next move.

  • Ausonius

    My initial thoughts were that having a useful Reader of Teleprompters might trump any switching to the putatively more effective H.R. Clinton.

    Knowing that MAObama might be suffering from Adult ADHD, and knowing his innate lassitude, Soros might be willing to pay him off to bow out gracefully somehow.

    One nightmare scenario would be to have President H.R. Clinton appoint him to be on the Supreme Court, the reward for stepping aside.

  • Achance
  • ZootSuit
  • JSobieski

    so I disagree. If Kennedy had run a campaign that made him appear to be a strong leader or had Kennedy tried to swing to the “center” (it would have been false, but hey, its Kennedy)–he could have won.

    Not saying he would have won, but to say “impossible” is nuts. Reagan and Carter were pretty much even until the last couple of weeks when people determined that Reagan was not a nutjob.

  • Scope

    the O as a SC Justice. I think the O wants to be on the world stage, and has been very supportive of the UN, and their initiatives. Ban Ki Moon, the current Secretary General’s term is up 12/31/11, and it seems he is very vulnerable, and may not be re-elected.

    http://www.elections.org/?q=node/1324

    According to the above write up, both Susan Rice and Hillary are critical of Moon. The O, and Rice and Hillary have all been good UN soldiers, and, have never gone against any of their shenanigans. They sure don’t push the “you are with us or you are against us” mode that Bush did. The O, by EO, gave full reign to Interpol in the US. He paid all the back dues/fees that the US owed, and he has been quick to come up with billions that the UN international organizations have requested.

    The problem for the O is he would have to resign the presidency before his term is up to become UN Sec. Gen. With this idiot, anything is possible, especially if it propels him to what he thinks are his higher callings. He has been criticized by a spate of world leaders, and, I’m not sure if he could win election to the UN highest position, but, he/Soros bought his election in 2008, and Soros can afford to buy him the UN spot. That would open up the 2012 presidential spot for a Clinton run. Soros gets his second choice.

  • Leopard1996

    That Obama had the accelerator floored for the Alinsky agenda. I just don’t think that the Kossacks, and Soros crowd want a Clinton anywhere near the levers of power anymore, especially after Bill did a job on selling them out.

  • JamesSmith130

    Dean would say, Obama stabbed us in the back by not immediately socializing health care with a government run health care “option”, etc.