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Democrats Seek to Ban Hunting Ammunition in Wisconsin

A Democratic state senator and three Democratic state representatives have circulated draft legislation that would ban civilian possession of hollow point or frangible ammunition in Wisconsin. According to existing Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources regulations, sportsmen and women in Wisconsin must use such ammunition when hunting deer or bear. The Democratic lawmakers, two of whom are freshman, all hail from urban districts in the City of Milwaukee.

The reasoning behind the legislation is somewhat muddled. The impact, however, is quite clear. According to a legislative counsel review of the legislation, it would essentially make it impossible for civilians to hunt deer or bear in Wisconsin.

The provision in the bill draft that provides whoever intentionally sells, transports or possesses any bullet that expands or flattens easily in the human body is guilty of a Class H felony conflicts with current DNR hunting rules.  Under s. NR 10.09 (1)(c)2., ‘no person shall hunt any deer or bear with any air rifle, rim-fire rifle, any center-fire rifle less than .22 caliber, any .410 bore or less shotgun or handgun loaded with .410 shotgun shell ammunition or with ammunition loaded with nonexpanding type bullets or ammunition loaded with shot other than a single slug or projectile.’ The bill draft does not provide an exception to the prohibition on possessing expanding bullets for deer or bear hunting.” (Emphasis added)

The draft legislation was circulated by Sen. Nikiya Harris (D), Rep. Mandela Barnes, (D), Rep. Evan Goyke (D), and Rep. Fred Kessler (D). Mandela and Goyke are freshman lawmakers elected just last November. A phone call around 3:00 pm to Rep. Goyke’s office went unanswered, as did phone calls to Rep. Kessler’s office and Sen. Harris’s office.

When asked about the contradiction between the bill draft and DNR rules, an intern (who did not identify himself as such) for Rep. Barnes said that Barnes wasn’t interested in banning deer hunting and indicated that the lawmakers had no clue that their legislation – if formally introduced and passed – would have done just that. However, a staff member later followed up that comment saying it did not reflect the official position of the office.

A spokesperson for Rep. Peter Barca, the leader of the Assembly Democrats, was not available to comment on the proposal.

Just how familiar the Democratic lawmakers are with hollow point ammunition is open to question. In their e-mail circulating the draft to fellow legislators, the quartet claimed that the military uses hollow point ammunition. “While used by the military for decades – in part because they inflict massive wounds – hollowpoint bullets have little, if any, practical use for self-defense or hunting in everyday society. Tragically, they are essentially human-killing bullets.”

That statement is false.

The U.S. military does not use hollow point ammunition in combat because of the Hague Declaration of 1899. Some experts have argued, however, that the military should start using hollow point ammunition because it minimizes collateral damage and would thus be safer and more humane than so-called “ball” ammunition.

Rep. Dave Craig, a Republican and former staffer for U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan (R), who is an avid Wisconsin hunter, drew attention to the draft legislation in a press release late Friday. Craig declared, “This assault on our state’s rich hunting tradition is appalling. While I’m rarely surprised by the degree some will go to attack our 2nd Amendment Rights, these Democrats have demonstrated just how far they will go to achieve their goal of suppressing the rich traditions so many in Wisconsin hold dearly.”

In addition to being required for hunting deer and bear in Wisconsin, hollow point and frangible ammunition is widely used by state and federal law enforcement agencies because of its precision and power. Unlike other types of ammunition, these rounds break apart or expand on impact, reducing the likelihood of going through a target and hurting innocent bystanders.

Many civilians also use such ammunition because in both hunting and personal protection situations it is far safer than using full metal jacket rounds. Fully jacketed rounds often run the risk of over penetration, moving behind the target and potentially striking or damaging people and property beyond the target.

COMMENTS

  • WmCraig

    Stupid people, stupid laws. Garbage in, Garbage out. But urbanites, the most abused, murdered, raped, assaulted and robbed “geographic demographic” in the world are welcome (I guess) to get the government they deserve. But you would think that after seeing that the more you encourage Democrats the worse things get that they might have second thoughts.

    Isn’t it nice to know that the the police, and criminals will only have access to the kind of ammunition that will go through a row of detached, semi-detached or attached homes, or a whole floor of an apartment building from one end to the other looking for additional targets to kill. I would think anyone that lives in a modestly dense community would rather police not use that type of ammunition. But then I haven’t voted for a Democrat in 40 years, and I realized long ago that was one time too many even if the other guy turned did resign in disgrace.

  • gunnyg2002

    It is evident that the Left is determined to push this nation into a civil war.

    • rbdwiggins

      Or, wake the sleeping giant and hand the GOP super-majorities in both chambers. With thirty Republican Governors, it appears to be headed that way in the states.

      • gunnyg2002

        I pray that we flush the Democrat and RINO garbage out of the Senate and then the WH!

        • NoTeaForMe

          I’m asking this as a serious question, not to troll. As an Atheist am I automatically a RINO? As an Atheist republican, the entire anti-gay marriage wing seems to fly in the face of supporting freedom. I agree with conservative positions on just about everything but social issues, when I hear the way republicans like me are talked about by the bible-thumpers then its easy to understand why states like Pennsylvania, Colorado, Nevada etc have gone from Purple to Blue.

          • fromthesidelines

            It may mean you’re a Libertarian rather than a Conservative.

            As I understand it, a common belief among Conservatives is that a people cannot be free unless they are moral. An immoral people cannot self-govern without devolving into tyranny. As such, in order to protect liberty, it is a proper role of government to take collective and coercive action to ensure that individuals make moral decisions.

            A Libertarian, by contrast, is more likely to believe the opposite — that a people cannot be moral unless they are free. Morality requires free will. If individuals lack the free will to make immoral decisions, then they also lack the free will to make moral decisions. Thus, any effort by government to strip individuals of free will in issues of morality not only strips them of liberty, but also strips them of morality.

            I’m going to guess you may be more comfortable with the latter view, than the former. That doesn’t necessarily mean you are a RINO. Personally, I’m not really sure what a RINO really is, either. I suspect the term RINO is little more than a lazy insult used by people who lack the ability to make a cogent argument as to why they disagree with someone.

          • fromthesidelines

            To be fair, I should add — “bible thumper” is definitely a lazy insult.

            NoTeaForMe — I would probably avoid that type of language, otherwise, someone is bound to think you’re just trying to pick a fight.

            If you’re new here, you might want to get a feel for the place. I made some imprudent comments at first myself, and have come to regret it. This is an interesting site, and most of the comments here are by people with good intentions and a deep passion for doing what’s best for he country.

            You don’t have to agree with everything people write here — I don’t — but, I do think its best to not be overly insulting, either. I’m not saying that’s your intention, but others might read it that way. Just a tip :)

          • Bill S

            He’s already banned. I hadn’t even seen this comment. If I had, it would have qualified him for an auto-ban. “Bible-thumpers” will earn pretty much anyone a ticket out of here.

          • fromthesidelines

            Yeah, I figured he wasn’t long for this world. I think I saw a phrase here once: commenticide, or something of that sort. For that matter, thanks for letting me stick around. If I cross a line, let me know. Great site.

          • celador2

            Notea,

            You and your baiting points are not the topic but gun control is, So have you a point that critiicizes Democrats aon gun control in Wisconsin? Or do you agree with them?
            . And you are a troll.

          • Jack_Savage

            First of all, you’re full of crap. If you are a Republican then I am Queen Elizabeth. You are just a garden-variety leftist, a dime a dozen these days. Next, sorry not to spend more time with you, but we are busy trying to salvage what is left of the country.

          • keepcoolwithcoolidge

            Apparently not. Obama won 5 Million fewer votes in 2012 and still won.

            Pushing conservatives away only hastens our decline. I would have loved for Richard Mourdock to have been Senator. But if memory serves, he lost a state Mitt Romney won. Sometimes we have to actually have to exchange ideas.

          • Jack_Savage

            You mean exchange conservative ideas for liberal ones?

          • keepcoolwithcoolidge

            Your not a RINO. With any luck Roberts will throw us a bone again with the gay marriage case and deliver a mutually agreeable ruling that kills the issue once and for all.

        • keepcoolwithcoolidge

          Remember. Conservatives are better than RINOs, but RINOs are better than Dems. Our coalition functions because we tolerate some disagreement. Not saying we shouldn’t run Ted Cruzs whenever possible. But we need to pick our battles wisely.

          • Jack_Savage

            Wrong. There is nothing worse than a RINO. They destroy from within. They are the Terrell Owens of politics.

    • celador2

      Push this nation to civil war?The left controls the government What is in it for them to start a fight with the people and open up the control tof money and resources hey have to chaos and violence?

  • wsg57

    Combine the propensity of the Progressives to lie to advance their destruction of the US Constitution and their flaming ignorance of firearms makes discerning their intent pointless. Evaluating the effect this idiocy is easy. Arrogance and stupidity mixed with a contempt for the Constitution is a DANGEROUS mix in any elected official.

    • greyeagle

      You are right and the Democrats are certainly showing all three.

  • celador2

    Before Minority Democrats can do much let us see what they are up against–
    Wisconsin Senate grew numbers after the recalls 2011-12 and is at 18-15. Assembly has a wide GOP majority also. The governor is Scott Walker and Lt Gv Rebecca Kleefisch both Republicans. Attorney Gen is JB Van Hollen and he too is GOP.
    Dave Craig caught the banners with their hands in the cookie jor, Kudos to Rep Craig for his hawk eye.

    Let this news story be a warning however. Thanks for the post, brian

    • Tbone

      Yep, and that fool Romney couldn’t carry the state.

      • rennyangel4

        He couldn’t carry Green Bay where the vast majority of the votes that gave WI to zero occurred.

        • celador2

          Democrats held Senate recalls of Republicans all through 2011 and 12 and they failed to recall a State senator from GreenBay. The US Congressional Districts remained as they were and GOP lost no CD seats 2012. This national US vote is not relevant to the proposed state ammo law in question but I fill in some gaps as your doomly outlook is not as bad as it may seem.
          That Green Ba yvote and the fact a Republican holds a seat in state senate is what is relevant to the state laws in question since he makes the laws not the US Reps much less the president.

      • celador2

        The gun laws under discussion are a state issue and the Pres has no authority.

    • PowerToThePeople

      As a reply to you and Tbone, I hope you guys know a state can elect a lot of conservative state reps and congressional reps yet remain a blue state right?

      Michigan is a prime example. If you colored the state according to how they vote, you would think it is a strong red state. Problem is, the democratic strongholds are huge populations of hard core democrats. Between the three biggest cities in the state of Michigan, the population of those cities is more than the entire state. So once conservatives start taking over the rural areas, more republicans are elected to state positions and even congress, but the state votes democrat in the presidential elections because the huge cities carry the states electoral votes for the dem. Same applies to Wisconsin. Romney did not stand a chance.

      • joshinca

        Yeah, but both states are trending red. The presidential race was a lagging indicator. Both states will likely be solid red locks within a couple of election cycles.

        • PowerToThePeople

          Not unless either one of two things happen, the major cities that have most of the population become ghost towns or we are able to convince the long time democrat city dwellers to change allegiance.

          I will agree that the states are a lot more red today than when I lived there and that is due to a republican resurgence in the rural areas due to them seeing just how bad democratic policies have been for their state and just how corrupt and dirty the unions are, but the cities remain democratic strongholds and have a majority of the population in them and they continue to keep the states blue in the presidential elections and congressional elections. There is hope for the states, but I think they are going to have to hit rock bottom which will drive much of the cities populations out then giving the state a much better chance to turn red all over.

      • rennyangel4

        The problem is the cities. Reps., tea parties, cons,. and patriots have to get back into cities and gain voters and monitor polling sites.

      • celador2

        Yes it has been a trend for years that the Democrats wins a presidential eelection as they turn out more voters. These voters are identifable for the most part and concentrated in two areas mostly.

        The state is divided 50-50 with about a third of voters swinging back and forth. Right now since 2010 the Republicans have been on a roll in state office.

        What goes up comes down and that may happen down the road if the presiidential zombie vote is activated in midterms and local elections such as the upcoming justice to state supreme court vote. If Ds win all GOP and Walker did will be undone by high court.

        Liberal judges legislate from the bench to overturn laws they dislike in this state, they really do.

        ..

  • Jack_Savage

    I really think that if a person doesn’t know his or her elbow from their ass when it comes to a particular subject they should try their best not to draft laws regulating it.

    • joshinca

      It’s really amazing how ignorant those people are.

      • Guest

        And how freely those same people will call those that disagree with them ignorant themselves. People will openly refuse to listen to a other point of view and in the next breath accuse that person of being ignorant. The lack of self awareness is shocking.

        • Jack_Savage

          Ignorance is a point of view without a basis in fact. My comment was not about disagreement or another point of view. My comment related to the simple fact that these gun confiscating morons are attempting to regulate something they know absolutely nothing about.

  • Dave_A

    You will see oddball stuff like this from the WI dems.

    Madison is left of Berkley sometimes, so while the state govt is heavily on our side (we are talking about the governor who signed concealed-carry, here) you will still see oddball bills from odd-duck idiots…

  • joshinca

    Every time that I think the gun grabbers have reached peak idiocy, they prove me wrong.

    • TMLutas

      Peak idiocy is like peak oil. It’s always just around the corner as ever higher levels are reached.

      • celador2

        Thumbs up
        You said it right—
        We can never relax in this state and are always on high alert. One thing after another.

  • CJB68

    This is starting to sound a lot like how President Obama has been doing things down in DC: start shelling the opposition with all sorts of proposals and manufactured “crisises”, and hope that they’re so overwhelmed that they just give up and let him have what he wants (which seems to be the usual Beltway modus operandi).  In time, we’re liable to witness the disintegration of the United States not so much from a civil war, than from the majority of the people pulling a John Gaunt and carving out what they can from what’s left.

  • romeg

    This is the consequence of ignoramuses and idiots electing ignoramuses and idiots to any office higher than some minor local county clerk level. They expend all kinds of effort and ink proclaiming how gun owners must be trained, educated, qualified and then denied their rights under the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution but nary a word is ever uttered about how those who choose to run for office or even vote in those elections should be required to pass minimum literacy and intelligence tests.

  • junglecogs

    Tell that to DHS.

    • Dave_A

      No. DHS has just as much legit need for JHPs as we do. Preventing the police (incl feds) from using modern, effective ammunition is wrong. As is preventing civillians from using it….

  • rennyangel4

    The left has an anti-Const. pol. agenda, but such “draft” leg. as evidenced above also shows how stupid they are. If we cannot beat stupid, we are in really bad shape.

    • celador2

      Indifference is a first cousin to stupid, they go hand in hand.

  • Jack_Savage

    What a great example.

    I remember someone writing a piece about how he was a bit of an expert on a particular subject, then read an article in the paper on that subject that was riddled with inaccuracies. When he complained about it to a friend, the friend remarked, “If they didn’t get that right, what makes you think they get anything else right?”