Maybe Obama should call Farve up and congradulate him on showing us that egomaniacs who ignore their team and cheat on their wives dont win.

This is part of a continuum going back to the beer summit. Obama has to check in with his black base now and then, show them he’s down with them, man. That said, why not cut Vick some slack? The man went to prison, said he’s sorry. I believe in redemption, and I think Tucker Carlson was kidding. Let’s no get so grim and sanctimonious that we lose a sense of humor. Look what happened to the left when theirs got lost.

Only after Vick had a largely highly successful season. He could have made the same call when Vick was signed, or even after Vick’s first game as a starter. But he did not. Like the opportunist he is, Obama waited until it seemed that Vick was a lock for MVP (after the last 3 or 4 games he may not be, but that’s another story). This is about nothing other than Obama trying to buy some “street cred”, as if getting his lip busted in a pickup basketball game was not enough.

… when those for which I have a great deal of respect….
1. Term a less than 2 year sentence in a Federal Prison as excessive when
the UNNECESSARY taking of life occurs, particularly in significant numbers!
2. The passion of others whom I have respected when they call for
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT of the offender.

As a retired law enforcement professional who worked on many a homicide, we all lose track of the failure of our American system to address violent crime. To those who call for rehabilitation, I suggest the best rehabilitation and deterrent would be PUNISHMENT and DETERMINANT SENTENCING. To those who call for EXECUTION, when it comes to animals, that is EXTREME, but I do understand your passion. Capital Punishment has hardly proven to be a deterrent!

To a President who feels the way this one does, I’m sorry, I CANNOT. I don’t think the sentence was either appropriate or will act as a deterrent to others who commit the same crime. Sounds like a Chicago community organizer to me. And to those who believe the sentence was EXCESSIVE, there is not a great distance between the unnecessary execution of an animal and a human being is there? That is for another debate!

and I hate people that torture animals, but I will say those dogs he was dealing with and your favorite family pet are two different things. Yes its their fault for fighting them and teaching them to be that way, but those animals are pure mean at that point and are a very real threat to people.

The legislature defined what the appropriate penalty was for his actions. He fulfilled their requirements, serving the prescribed time in prison.

Do you think he should have had a stiffer penalty? Fine. You have no right whatsoever to carry out that penalty in any manner. You DO have the right to petition your state legislature to change the law in such a way as to make sure that FUTURE criminals pay the appropriate penalty. Per the US Constitution, you have no right to add to Vick’s penalty after he has served the penalty prescribed by law.

You’re entitled to your opinion — and Michael Vick is entitled to play football. If you don’t like that, don’t watch.

Philly sports daily knows how to pick good writing.

Yes, Vick served his time, and it’s right that the legal system impose no further sanction on him.

But that doesn’t mean that the NFL – a private organisation – should let him back in. Private individuals can “punish” a person by refusing to do business with them, regardless of whether the legal system has punished them at all.

Look at it this way – a pedophile completes his sentence, and asks to babysit your kids. Yes, he’s done his time. But you’d still be crazy to let him do it.

Likewise, if you think that OJ was guilty of murder, you will shun him even though the legal system imposed no punishment.

The legal system imposes punishment according to the law. The private sanction of being shunned by the community is in addition to that, and need not cease once the law’s punishment has. The NFL, as a private body, could stop Vick if it wanted.

I had no idea that there was a libertarian consensus on this, or any, issue in the private sector, given that as an ideology it is only concerned with what government does. I guess the libertarian Pope must have made a declaration at some point

I find libertarian philosophy to be more or less devoid of moral standards (and spare me the “harm principle” lecture – I’ve heard it a thousand times and I don’t buy it) – The GOP’s downward spiral into libertarianism is, as I’ve stated, is the right-wing politics proof point that we’re abandoning traditional values in favor of a social liberal “do whatever you want to” mentality. This particular story makes a lot of points that I wholeheartedly agree with (and a few that I don’t), but it captures the essence of my thinking on the matter. Here’s one:

About one in ten Americans self-identifies as libertarian, and even fewer consider themselves “movement” libertarians. Most of them don’t subscribe to Reason or attend conferences at the Cato Institute, the libertarian think tank funded in part by the infamous brothers Charles and David Koch. But many are libertarians without knowing it. That is, they identify as economically conservative and socially liberal.

With respect to this Vick story, I find the public’s acceptance of Vick, despite his repugnant behavior, to be yet another signpost indicating that we’ve thrown out values in favor of doing whatever is expedient in accomplishing today’s task – whether that be winning football games or winning elections. My apologies if I failed to make that plain enough.

There are two issues of importance here. First, America is becoming an animal-obsessed Nation which is quite troubling. Many people see no difference between humans and dogs – people on both sides of the political spectrum I might add. This speaks to the degradation of humanity.

Secondly, many of us are seeking enduring values and self-evident truths as the Founders did, If they wanted to create a Christian Nation they would have done so. The libertarian center of this Country is for personal responsibility without the Christian fundamentalism.

Remember, the classic liberal Deist Thomas Paine believed the American Revolution would be immediately followed by a revolution in religion, a revolution that never happened. It is happening quietly today.

I was totally enjoying the post and then was totally confused by what I feel is an unnecessary and untrue statement .

In the first place, I don’t see the GOP on a downward slide towards Libertarianism. As has been noted by other commenters, perhaps a slide towards Progressivism, but Libertarianism??

Secondly, I disagree that such a slide would be a downwards slide. I don’t find Libertarians to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I find many, if not most of them, to be as fiscally and socially conservative as I am. What I do find is that their preferred method of accomplishing their political goals is not via legislation. They prefer that each individual wrestle with and come out on the right side of the morality of issues and behave accordingly. Doing so results in quite moral behavior, which is the point. A million doctors can offer abortions but if there are no customers, then the situation we all fervently hope will come to pass – no abortions in America – has arrived without the passing of a single law.

To say that a man has the right to make whatever mistakes he chooses and the subsequent responsibility to live with the consequences of those choices is a hallmark of Conservatism in general and Libertarianism in particular. In that regard, I believe the GOP is headed in the right direction. That there is disagreement between Republicans and Libertarians as to where the lines should be drawn on legal and illegal regarding issues like drugs, prostitution and other matters, is not the same thing as saying Libertarians are either the Second Coming or scum of the earth.

Other than that, I thought the piece was well written and I agree completely. But the throw away sentence slam on Libertarians was a glaring, out-of-place, incorrect and unnecessary statement in the scope of what Bill was saying.

Better if he had made an entire diary on his premise that the GOP is in such a downhill slide. I’d like to see his thoughts and arguments in defense of that premise. But a one liner tossed out in the midst of a story on Vick and redemption is not really the place to have that debate …

it is the LACK of a soul that Vick and serial killers who start with animals then make their way to humans exhibit. That you could watch an innocent die a horrendous death speaks to the EVIL in you. The sickness that infest society is something the liberals have been perfecting for decades. The Vick is once again beloved is a stain on the soul of the this Country!

One of his more reviled quotes (by those on the left): “Does it bother you to think that some doctors get rich performing abortions?”

He’s also been called out by our good fiends at Media Matters for saying that Obama is “afraid to use the word ‘abortion’”.

What Vick did is wrong, and he paid the price, but he is NOT a murderer. If you kill an animal it is not murder. Some animal lovers seem to equate or put animals above humans.
In a way, I give Obama credit for being “politically incorrect” on this issue.

Seriously, because Vick makes his money by being physically gifted, he’s automatically unlike most of us who will never play pro ball.

That, plus the lifestyle of the professional athlete makes it extremely difficult for us to know whether he’s sincere or not.

As for upbringing as an excuse, please take that load of manure away. Wrong is wrong, and if Vick didn’t know any better, someone in his group or someone in his former teams’ management damn well ought to have and should have said something. Ignorance has also, historically, not been an acceptable excuse.

Mew

in which there are indicators that cruelty to animals is a short mental step from cruelty to humans, I’ll just point out that most of American society by population did not grow up on a farm anymore…..

In a society that has largely left the farm, dogs are treated more as surrogate children in many cases. This doesn’t always go over well with the dogs … thus the success of books teaching people how to treat dogs like dogs .. but it is a fact that needs to be acknowledged when trying to understand the phenomenon.

As for government interference, I think Vick paid his debt to the government under the law and is free to make his way.

Mew

I’ve both worked in the pro-life movement and been to a dog fight. There are members of this site – not many, but enough – who support legalized abortion. I suspect that many of those same members will criticize the President’s comments on Vick. I’ll not paint all those criticizing the President’s statement with the same brush. I will, however, say this. Anyone who in one breath says that Michael Vick shouldn’t be in the NFL and in the next says that a pro-choicer is worthy of public office is a hypocrite.

Cold hearts such as yours usually have no joy in their lives. I’m only sorry for any animal you come across.

Pond scum does come to mind.

Of course, the way we treat animals is absolutely no indication of the quality of our moral fiber.

The fact that animal cruelty leads to violence against human beings is well established in psychology. A torturer of animals is far more likely to be a murderer than a non-torturer of animals.

Why should theft of a valuable painting result in more jail time than what Vick did?

I think Scope’s response proves your point.,

than humans, as in, if there was a fire in the house, they would save their cat before their mean ass uncle.

by the people here posting what they are. The posting names of those that have such cold hearts against animals have been burned into my brain.

We should be good custodians of nature, and that includes animals. I admit that on an emotional level, I would like to smack around anyone even thinking about animal cruelty. If someone even touched my cats in a way that was purposefully violent, I would deliver righteous wrath like it was nobody’s business.

Ghandi was an impressive man, but his sayings re: violence aren’t exactly conservative and they aren’t exactly Christian.

Ghandi thought the Jews should have passively given in to those infamous death camps started at the behest of that German lover of dogs, Hitler.

The Iranians love their cats by the way. Does that outweigh how they look at dogs?

I think Christianity is pretty clear on the issue of where animals stand in the moral order. I don’t think conservatism has much of a position either way on animals except to say that needless cruelty can’t be a good thing.

I don’t think animals should be subjected to cruelty by their owners. Is a pet property? Sure, but there should be more limits on how a pet is treated than on how I treat a lamp or a chair.

I say all of that acknowledging that the modern animal rights movement is a bunch of leftist communist types (think Coons), and thus I would be reluctant to fully adopt what those folks say on the matter.

As I write all of this, one of my cats is staring at me . . .looking a bit diappointed and annoyed.

I guess Obambi’s laser-like focus on jobs means that he’s watching more ESPN to see who the newest rookies are going to be.

Proper grammar saves lives.

Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.

---

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

My priest became really annoyed when a parishioner demanded assurances that her dog was in heaven. He told her simply “No, it isn’t”.

I am astonished when I see the money and/or other resources so many people put into their pets. There are so many places those resources could be better allocated. I can’t even begin to understand it.

or do you always post PETA nonsense? You say…

“A sport is a contest between two competitors who supposedly have an equal chance to win! Is hunting a sport? I don’t think so! What chance does an animal have against a rifle that can kill it from 500 yards away without even knowing it was being threatened? Zero chance! Is that equal?”

Lets look at that nonsense for a sec..

Early man used weapons

Is a lion killing a rabbit fair? I mean the lion must follow fair rules and give the rabbit a stone or something to compete with its dominant speed, size, teeth, claws, etc…….right?

If we need to act like nature, then we can kill just for the hell of it like the lion does the hyena, dogs do cats, etc….right?

So since you have an issue with guns and want us to kill “fairly” like in nature, you are prepared to show us some of the fair hunter versus prey scenarios…….right?

Nonsense, complete nonsense. And I bet you are in favor of animal rights but have no issue with the killing of the unborn……..right?

YOU SAID “Can you come up with your own arguments” or do you always post PETA nonsense?
I believe I stated my argument quite well! Unfortunately you missed my point! In fact you missed all my points, apparently, AND ADDED SOME THAT I DIDN’T EVEN MAKE!
Did I mention PETA? Truth is I’m even less of a PETA FAN THAN YOU ARE! Not only do I not quote them, I really don’t EVEN listen to them, support them or even like them!
And if you’re going to quote me, then at least do it in the proper context. I also said and I quote: “I have no problem with hunting animals, if that’s your thing but, don’t call it a sport!”
I am not against hunting, as you said! I merely said that hunting is not a sport! That’s the point I was making! True, I don’t hunt but, I have family members and loads of friends who do! Maybe if you had bothered to read the whole post before you went off, we wouldn’t be having this conversation!
What I DID NOT SAY, is what you said when you said I have an issue with guns! It’s OK to read between the lines but don’t read your words into what I said! I assure you I do not have an issue with guns! I merely gave an example of a hunter with a rifle killing an animal at 500 yards! The animal doesn’t even know it’s being hunted! What’s sporting about that? WHAT’S FAIR ABOUT THAT? Oh, well! If that makes you feel sporting, then go for it! No problem here!
Just so you know my feelings about guns, I own several rifles, shotguns and a handgun! I am a firm believer and supporter of the 2nd Amendment! I have guns for protection, JUST IN CASE I need them! I also have a very good friend who collects MACHINE GUNS, but then he doesn’t hunt either!
To your point that “Early Man” used weapons, of course he did but, then he didn’t call himself a sportsman either, huh? He hunted to survive!
AND for your statement about animals killing “for the hell of it”, how would you know what their intent is? According to most animal experts, animals in the wild kill for food, to eliminate other predators and protect themselves and their territory!
Killing the unborn? Give me a break! God only knows how you decided that I was in favor of killing babies! I don’t recall saying anything about the abortion issue but, then I didn’t say a lot of the other things that you said I did, either! Just for the record, I’m ANTI-ABORTION! GOT IT!
Why don’t you do another POST and tell everybody my views on OBAMACARE, DADT, START, THE NATIONAL DEBT and all the other current issues we face! You seem to know HOW I FEEL ABOUT EVERYTHING, even the issues I didn’t mention!
THE ONLY NONESENSE HERE IS THAT YOU READ WHAT YOU WANTED TO READ AND DISTORTED WHAT I REALLY SAID, IN ADDITION TO WHAT I DIDN’T SAY!
Since you think I don’t like guns, I’ll leave you with one of MY FAVORITE QUOTES from one of the Founding Fathers:
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
~Thomas Jefferson

PLEASE DON’T GET THAT ONE WRONG LIKE YOU DID WITH WHAT I SAID! I CERTAINLY WOULDN’T WANT YOU TO GO SHOOTING UP CITY HALL!
IN GOD WE TRUST!
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR!

My problem with Little is that not only did he kill a woman with his drunk driving, but after his initial conviction he continued to do it….he was caught DWI again after that. And like Vick, he (at least was) attempted a comeback. Again – I find this offensive, as NFL “stars” (which Little was, at one time) are seen as hero figures, and it sickens me to see people (especially children) idolizing those who have squandered their standing with the fans. Moral. Decay.

…so maybe I’ve missed something. But no one, to my knowledge, has called Mr. Vick’s eternal salvation into question. That is pretty much completely out of context in this discussion.

Yeah, he paid his dues to society. But that doesn’t mean he should be allowed to play football. In fact, I believe for him to do so is completely inappropriate. Professional athletes, whether we like it or not, serve as role models for kids and adults of all walks. This guy did something that’s absolutely repulsive. As others have indicated, that kind of behavior indicates a heart issue. Can he be completely redeemed from an eternal perspective? Absolutely….no one (and I mean no one) is incapable of redemption through Jesus. But he’s still here on Earth, and the way we deal with such things in society is not how God deals with them in His kingdom. Lifting up someone like Vick as a great role model at this point is entirely improper, IMHO. And this is why I think the whole thing is indicative of a degree of moral decay that prioritizes athleticism over values.