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Peter King Lays Out The Stakes

What Price Is The Left Willing To Pay? And With Whose Blood?

By: Dan McLaughlin (Diary)  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 04:25 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

The GOP has been in a defensive crouch for too long on the war on terror. But one of the Republicans who hasn’t been afraid to lay the stakes of the current debate about interrogation procedures is Long Island Congressman and possible Senate candidate Peter King. King argues that if the Democrats try to prosecute Bush Administration officials for approving coercive interrogation techniques against 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and other high-value Al Qaeda detainees, the GOP should pursue a “scorched earth” policy of shutting down Congress – and make the Democrats take full and complete responsibility for the consequences of pulling punches in the battle against terrorists:

“If we have another 2,000 people killed, I want Nancy Pelosi and [liberal philanthropist] George Soros, John Conyers and Pat Leahy to go to the funeral and say your son was vaporized because we didn’t want to dump some guys head under water for 30 seconds.”

If they aren’t willing to do that…well, maybe they should rethink their position before we get to that point, shouldn’t they?

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COMMENTS

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  • E Pluribus Unum

    We’re hearing plenty of that idea from everywhere but the Repub caucus in Congress. Somebody — FINALLY — is ramping it up.

    • mom2oneson

      I thought it was your idea from your patrick henry blog. Sorry I posted that below I didn’t see you had already posted. I bet he read your diary!!!

      • E Pluribus Unum

        Always wanted to say that.

        I appreciate the thought. I’d like to think it was King reading my diary, or having it called to his attention. However, all across right-blog land, many, many bloggers have been calling, for years, for our Congress-critters to man up and play hardball. The Tea Parties held a message not unlike that. My guess is that some of these guys are hearing the call, and answering it.

        Good for them, I’ll take it.

    • JustLeaveMeAlone

      Absolutely. And about dang time. Bring it on!

    • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

      First up… HARRY REID (D-NV) for providing aid and comfort to our enemies declaring the war “Lost.”

      Next, DIANE FEINSTEIN (D-CA) for leaking Classified information Loose Lips Sink Ships, Feinstein Torpedoes Pakistan

      and work our way down to all those who have supported unconstitutional gun laws

      • E Pluribus Unum

        Of the nationally prominent elected Democrats who should stand trial for treason, I got:

        John F-ing Kerry – meeting with the NV while still a member of the USN circa 1972.
        Bob McDermott – going to Iraq circa 1991 and denouncing the US on TV.
        Nancy Pelosi – undermining the war by visiting tin-pot despot Syrian dictator, circa 2007.
        Harry Reid – “this war is lost”.
        Just getting warmed up too.

        • Finrod

          .

        • Gyorc Nacain
          • Aaron Gardner
          • Achance
  • Aaron Gardner

    We need fighters like this!!

  • mom2oneson
  • RJD

    nt

  • leftylurker

    I really, really don’t like the attitude I’m hearing, if I’m hearing it correctly.

    Again, I’m not saying that what I know went on was illegal, or torture.

    But…

    I’m getting the sense from some commentators that we almost have an obligation to break the law if it’s in the fight against terror, and I think that’s a really dangerous position to take. It’s NOT okay to break the law, even if you think it’s REALLY REALLY important to do it in a given situation. That kind of thinking can lead to bad results, and it’s un-American, and un-democratic.

    • Brian Hibbert

      “what I know went on was illegal, or torture.” even though you claim to not be saying that.

      The point is that what went on wasn’t torture or illegal but the Obama administration is wanting to put on show trials to make political points at the expense of our national security.

    • Aaron Gardner

      Don’t twist what has been said to try and make some BS claim to the moral high ground.

      Bottom line…the EIT were deemed legal. So no one is saying to break the law, and frankly the insinuation is insulting.

      • leftylurker

        I’m not saying that this particular instance is that bad, but Aaron, can you really tell me honestly that you haven’t seen a current in the general discussions on counter terrorism that implies we should do whatever is necessary, as opposed to whatever is legal?

        I’m no bleeding heart. If you read my posts I agree that we should hang pirates, investigate Pelosi, whatever it takes.

        For the dorks out there, I think I’m pretty Lawful Neutral. =)

        • Aaron Gardner

          that will only cause you to lose and respect people might have for you.

          Waterboarding was deemed legal…no one has said that we should break the law and you know that otherwise you would have linked to someone here who did say it.

          Let’s not play this game ok.

        • Justin_Case

          most people against enhanced interrogation lack the perspective of having had their lives hanging by a thread in a combat situation. Having that perspective causes one to know that he or she will do anything in order to survive. Anything.

          Rules of engagement, sound like a nice “civilized” touch but they are perilous to our soldiers.

          Now that we have experienced attacks on our own soil, our civilian population is more at risk. Concern as to whether or not water boarding constitutes torture and recent publication of formerly top secret intelligence might make the world think better of us, but these actions put our civilian population at greater risk.

          The “current in the general discussions, etc” is very real. I fully agree with you that there is one. However, in my opinion, it results from a realization of the peril in which our leaders have placed us, and their predictable attempt at shirking responsibility in the event of another terror attack, while placing blame on Bush/Cheney.

    • Dan McLaughlin

      but the point is, you better be drawing that line somewhere you could justify to people who have lost a loved one because you weren’t willing to cross it. That suggests that the line not be drawn lightly.

      If you’re the president, you go absolutely as far up to that line as the law will let you, and if you’re Congress, you draw the line first, and make the law conform to it.

      • maynardjames

        to attack LA is so important.

        White House fact sheet: “In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.”
        http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070523.html

        The only problem is, we didn’t capture KSM until 2003 (http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/rendition701/timeline/timeline_2.html), let alone waterboard him. So, INHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FOILING TH LA PLOT. All we did was confirm the intended target of a plot we already foiled.

        I think we should let all the facts come out before rationalizing and justifying actions that we have executed others for in the past.

        • Brian Hibbert

          Jumping on lefty talking points without confirming them is usually a bad idea.

          A VERY quick search of older articles will yield things like”
          http://cbs2.com/local/Library.Tower.Los.2.528854.html

          Which states:
          ” The plot was derailed in early 2002 with the arrest of an al-Qaida operative by a southeast Asian government that wasn’t identified.”

          Though the plot was masterminded by KSM, he wasn’t the person who gave up this particular bit of information.

          • maynardjames

            Waterboarding had nothing to do with foiling the plot.

          • JadedByPolitics

            …

          • maynardjames

            My toolness notwithstanding, I think it is telling that the only success story we are hearing about waterboarding is foiling a plot that was already foiled a year before we even waterboarded the guy.

          • The_Rebel

            n/t

          • maynardjames

            who tried and executed Japanese soldiers for doing the exact same thing.

          • The_Rebel

            Don’t answer the question. Just editorialize.

          • maynardjames

            As far as torture goes, it’s pretty tame. But it’s been considered torture by our government in the past, so why not now.

            My question to you is, if it were done to an American by another country, would you want prosecutions?

          • Aaron Gardner
          • Aaron Gardner

            wow you must come from dKos. The Japanese water torture actually forced ingestion of water to the point that the stomach would actually explode.

            Read a history book sometime…that way you won’t sound so idiotic when you come here.

          • maynardjames

            I don’t think that’s a fair statement on their technique. We may have been more deliberate and careful in our execution of it than they were, but the technique is basically the same. We just made sure people people didn’t die from it.

          • Aaron Gardner

            the techniques are completely different.

            just another disingenuous moment in your line of lefty lies. Troll.

          • Ward_Off_Monkey

            Not the same by any stretch of the imagination. Sorry for referencing wikipedia but it’ll do in this case.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_torture

            First two entries:
            Forced ingestion
            Main article: Water cure
            In this form of water torture, water is forced down the throat and into the stomach. This happens repeatedly until osmosis causes the cells to explode[citation needed]. It was used as a legal torture and execution method by the courts in France in the 17th and 18th century, was employed against Americans and Chinese during World War II by the Japanese, and was also used against Filipinos by American Forces during the Philippine-American War.

            Terror of drowning
            Main article: Waterboarding
            Waterboarding refers to a technique involving water poured over the face or head of the subject, in order to evoke the instinctive fear of drowning.Often,a wet cloth is placed in the subjects mouth,giving them the impression that they are drowning.

          • Aaron Gardner

            But you are talking to a ghost at this point.

          • Ward_Off_Monkey

            Oh well, maybe some other troll will read that and become enlightened. Nah, who am I kidding? :)

          • Aaron Gardner

            look for multiple posts in a short period of time by me…I am somewhat of a pit bull when I need to be…as if that isn’t obvious…lol

          • farstar99

            Ignore him. He’s a troll with no knowledge of history.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Most leftists even, as Jonah Goldberg demonstrated.

          • Brian Hibbert

            You make the claim that enhanced interrogation had nothing to do with the LA plot because KSM wasn’t captured until afterwards. The article in question mentions that it was a KSM plot that was foiled after capture of an Al Qaida operative. It does not say what techniques were used to gather the information from this operative.

          • maynardjames

            However, the current talking point is that waterboarding KSM prevented an attack on LA, which isn’t true.

            It may very well be the case that waterboarding someone else may have produced the information. My point is that a dishonest argument is being made by former administration officials to justify their actions.

          • Brian Hibbert

            The claim was that enhanced techniques prevented the attacks on LA that were planned by KSM.

            It’s the left and the media which has twisted that into KSM was the person who gave up the info.

          • maynardjames
          • Aaron Gardner

            not that he is wrong…I am just wondering how your spine is feeling after contorting it so much.

          • maynardjames
          • Aaron Gardner
          • maynardjames

            dishonesty in my argument.

          • Aaron Gardner
          • maynardjames

            It looks like the KSM interrogations led to the arrests of others who werre involved in the LA plot that had already been foiled, but who had not been captured yet, who then corroborated what was learned from KSM.

            While it may have been valuable information that led to arrests, I still don;t see proof that it disrupted the LA plot. Just that it led to the arrests of those involved.

          • Aaron Gardner

            if they were free they would have tried again. That’s what they do.

          • maynardjames

            But it didn’t foil the LA plot. It’s possible that they would have tried to execute a plot that we were already aware of anyway, but I doubt it. But yes, they likely would have started planning another attack. That is what they do. However, we foiled several plots without torturing, and as far as I know, those instances outnumber the plots foiled due to torture. I’d be open to evidence that refutes that.

          • E Pluribus Unum

            First of all your use of the word ‘torture’ is out of order in the manner you use it. But in my mind I’ll substitute ‘.waterboarding’

            So if I get you right, because we allegedly foiled more plots by other means than by waterboarding, we should abandon waterboarding.

            This year the Dallas Cowboys scored more points by passing than by the ground attack. Therefore, we should abandon the running game entirely because we scored more by passing.

            Got it.

          • Aaron Gardner

            additionally it proves that you aren’t here in good faith. Since you are claiming waterboarding to be torture which according to law it is not.

            Furthermore we have no way of knowing what would have happened if KSM wasn’t waterboarded and didn’t give up these guys.

            You leftists like to act like these guys gave up on terrorism after the 2002 plot was discovered…that fact is they didn’t and don’t and that is why you can’t say that the attack was foiled in 2002…because participants in the plot were still on the lose…the plot could not have been totally foiled as you are trying to make it seem.

            It was not until all the participants in that cell were captured that the plot could be considered foiled and that occurred due to intelligence gather from KSM by means of waterboarding.

            You are a disingenuous troll. And you are wasting our time.

          • Ward_Off_Monkey

            That’s as good as the great O saying his stimulus bill will create or save 3.5 million jobs. How does one measure the “saved” jobs? The One will always succeed with goals such as this, By your reasoning we should abandon all EIT techniques because most terrorists may not be trained to endure more than the simplest interrogation and give up their information easily, therefore it is not reasonable to use enhanced techniques on those who are a bit tougher to crack. Since we can’t necessarily measure lives saved we should just assume it’s a win-win situation? We saved some lives and the terrorists didn’t have to endure anything more than some tough questioning followed by a nice thank you?

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            Oversea wire-tapping uncovered a plot regarding the Brooklyn Bridge without specifics…. it was later deemed that the best way to bring the Bridge down was to torch through the cables via access in an out of the way and shielded building underneath the Bridge (not giving any secrets here, it is still guarded today – NOW!)…. WATER-BOARDING of one of the only THREE individuals that were water-boarded (don’t recall this instance which one) yielded the name of the saboteur…. Chatter later revealed a message “Brooklyn Bridge ‘Too Hot’” referring to all the stepped up security but NOT that the plot was called off entirely but that it could NOT be undertaken until things cooled off around the Bridge…. That person was caught and arrested with the Torch and Tanks that would be used to burn through those Cables in his Apartment!!!! All 100% because the Water-boarding yielded 100% accurate intelligence!

          • Aaron Gardner

            The memo that your man-god declassified proves you wrong.

            And your tired talking point has been disproven multiple times already today.

          • maynardjames

            I am open to your arguments.

          • Aaron Gardner

            Pages 10-12 Now run along before you trip up on your talking points and embarrass yourself.

          • E Pluribus Unum

            The record shows that a bunch of people, as a direct result of the intel extracted from KSM in the fall of 2003, were arrested in a plot to fly a commercial airliner into the Library Tower.

            If you dispute that, then you dispute the memos. It doesn’t really MATTER whether you think it’s the same plot, whether it WAS the same plot, whether it was a revival of the same plot with a new cell, or what.

            KSM gave up information. CIA used that information to shut down a plot. Period.

          • rbdwiggins

            KSM was the mastermind behind the Second Wave which included flying a high-jacked airliner into the Library Tower. He confirmed the validity of the information extracted by the unidentified Southeastern Asian country (Which I believe to be Malaysia.).

            Note to our lefty participants: There were multiple plots, enhanced interrogation techniques were highly successful in stopping another 9-11 style attack on US soil and we are safer today because of the intelligence those techniques produced. That’s why President Obama doesn’t want to release the rest of the memos.

          • rbdwiggins

            is an inherent flaw commonly found in the liberal mind.

            I don’t believe the article identified the specific enhanced interrogation technique employed by the unidentified Southeastern Asian country.

            One very popular interrogation technique employed by a few Southeastern Asian countries involves a generator, some jumper cables and human testicles.

            The technique also seems to be quite popular in some parts of Latin America and the Middle East. Saddam Hussein certainly enjoyed the spectacle.

          • maynardjames

            should we use them as well?

            Honest question.

          • E Pluribus Unum
          • maynardjames

            I think that’s a healthy thing to discuss.

          • E Pluribus Unum

            Since you brought it up, let’s say it was you in the Captain Kirk chair. How far are YOU willing to go to extract vital intel from a known terrorist mastermind about suspected ongoing plots against the nation you swore to defend?

          • JadedByPolitics

            go as far as WE needed to to ensure the safety of America….lock stock and barrel if so required! Terrorists need to FEEL like their lives are going to be taken if they do not cough up information! WE will not chop off their head BUT I would like them to think it just MIGHT occur! I like the way the Russians do it….http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

            THAT IS THE WAY TO HANDLE TERRORISTS!

          • maynardjames

            the threat of imminent death is what we considered illegal at the time. That’s why we had to tell them that the insects we put in the little box while they were in there might sting them, but would not kill them.

          • Aaron Gardner
          • Brian Hibbert

            And the interrogators specifically asked if their planned actions were legally allowed.

          • Aaron Gardner
          • Aaron Gardner
          • rbdwiggins

            What is the threat-level?
            What does the subject supposedly know?
            What is the time-frame?
            How many Americans are going to die from the failure to act?

  • mom2oneson
  • Section9

    It’s not time yet to refight the battle of Kharkov quite yet. It’s quite time to let the Democrats stew in their juices and allow the Administration camp to wallow in some confusion.

    What will happen is that the Republicans will come together and becoming much more cohesive. I call this the “Wehrmacht in retreat” phase of the party’s existence. Yeah, I know, the Wehrmacht lost in the end, but the Democrats are full of pi** and vinegar right now, and they are taking steps which they believe will give them power for a very, very long time. The Republican Party is coming to believe that it is in an existential fight. All that they fought for in the war against Islamic Fascism is being called in to question, and their leaders, if not their Party, is being held up ridicule and as an example of wickedness and evil.

    This is an example of the Winning Party prosecuting members of the Losing Party. There is precedent for this: the McCarthy Hearings, when the Tailgunner went out of control and led Jacobin Republicans on a series of witch hunts which tarred the good name of anti-communists.

    Obama has unleashed the Furies. He simply doesn’t know it yet. The pent up anger and vitriol of the Democratic Party, flush with victory and full of self-righteous anger and conviction, will overreach as McCarthy did before them.

    This is like a Greek Tragedy. Obama is at the zenith of his power. All before him lay prostrate. He has made his fatal mistake. He has given his enemies the sword they need to defend themselves and called into question his word and his judgement.

    But it is not time yet to go scorched earth on these people. Let them first fight over the spoils of victory a little bit more, let them concentrate on prosecuting Republicans instead of bringing the country together and doing what is good for the whole nation.

    Let the electorate see what this crew of Jacobins are actually made of first.

    • Achance

      Democrat strategists have spent every waking moment since ’94 thinking about how they let that happen. They’re not far from hegemony now. The business community won’t dare cross them or spend money against them. All they have to do is pass Card Check and they have their socialist workers party with compelled contributions in half the Country with the rest of the Country not far behind. The economy will immediately begin to reel once the arbitrations start under Card Check. First there’ll be wage driven inflation, then there’ll be Godawful layoffs and the attendant distress. All he needs is to downsize the military and we can add an American version of the freicorps to the poisonous mix.

      • larryp

        and the “Truth” hearings are designed to suck theair out of the news cycle.
        No donk will testify or be deposed. Only the GWB appointees and all the dnk news twits will be sothrilled. Nothing of what Obama’s shock troops do to theUSA will be covered. It waill be all torture all the time. Like on MSNBC last nite, a collage of “wanted posters” will be on the screen.

      • IJB

        If the Dems were really serious about turning the U.S. into a one-party state, they’d be going ahead full-bore on these show trials, and lengthening the ‘indictment’ list every hour. (And they would have passed Card Check on, like, Day *10*!)

        Instead, they’ve quasi-retreated, like a confused deer in the headlights. It now looks to me like the ‘show trials’ have been called off!

        Maybe Kos & co. are right after all – when the Dems really have the chance, they do seem to fail to pull the pin/go for the jugular.

        In the end, what always seems to undo the Democrats is ‘not overreaches’ on their grandiose Stalinist Utopian dreams and policies – in the end, it always seems to be their inherent incompetence that’s their undoing.

    • furious

      …there really was Communist infiltration of the Gov’t at the time. Not fair to compare TailGunner Joe to today’s Commuinty-Based Reality.

  • Joe_Cor

    I’ll believe it when I see it. These are Republicans, after all.

    If they were to follow such a course, they better have a plan in place to deal with the media that involves more than sitting there with a deer-in-the-headlights expression while Charlie or Matt or Katie or Brian savage them in interviews.

    And if there are procedures out there they can use to “shut down” Congress, why aren’t they contemplating any of these procedures to slow down the Obama agenda down a little bit? Like on defense cuts, socialized health care, massive deficits, etc.?

    • BlueLandRed

      fiscal irresponsibility over the past 8 years is now coming back to really bite it in the a**. And I’m afraid the MSM is taking the Dems talking points hook line and sinker and is starting to frame the Republican party as the Party of No.

      I get the emotional appeal of “shutting down Congress”, but we’re all foolish if we don’t understand the risks, which are substantial.

      If the public doesn’t follow the GOP but instead aligns with the Dems in this fight it could embolden the Dems to counterattack the scorched earth policy by going nuclear. And all the recent polling I’ve seen doesn’t bode well for the Republicans, so don’t assume that it couldn’t happen.

      Like it or not, the Dems hold significant majorities in both houses and the executive branch, so while this might be the time and the place to fight this battle, failure to win could result in things being a whole lot worse.

      • IJB

        Because the only polling I am seeing these days shows Obama & the Dems both plummeting to Earth, as they get 0% GOP voter support, and as increasingly large sections of the ‘independent’ vote go running for the exit!

        • Joe_Cor

          I hope you’re right.

          • IJB

            But I’ve seen some other polls cited by others around this site over the past month which show the same basic trends. (Don’t remember details…)

            Right now, Obama’s down to 54-55% in Rasmussen. That means all it will take is for one more pretty bad thing to happen, and he’ll plummet towards 40-45% pretty quick…

          • scarlos

            if it drops to negatives before his 100 days are up that will be one heck of a blow since it was at +30 when he took office.

            I mean, Bush’s Strongly disapprove rating was at 41% when he left office, and Obama’s is currently hovering around 34%. The Democrats have also lost an 8-point lead on the Generic Congressional Ballot. This makes his first 3 months arguably the worst politically of any president since the 19th century.

      • 6eorge Jetson

        In a mere 8 weeks, Obama managed to pass an agenda that will dwarf what George W Bush did in 8 years.

        Yes, the Republicans spent too freely in the last two presidential terms. As to Obama campaign criticisms such as the $10 Billion/month cost of the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars, all I can say is “How quaint!”

        Republican leaders need to present the magnitude of the future debt to the public in some easy to grasp medium (such as the repeated use of an agreed upon chart).

      • ocleverone

        than the subversion of the Republic?

  • WarEagle01

    One of the few up there who isn’t testicularly challenged.

  • applycs

    A voice that resonates some common sense.

    The rest of you congressional Republicans take note. If only.

  • furious

    …for Newt and Co? As I recall, Bubba played the Congressional Republicans like a banjo. And the media now are even more in the tank for the current White House occupant.

    And Republican leadership (Newt) were arguably smarter politically and the Republican caucus in better array than either are now.