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Gov. Brown’s Office to Conservative Californians: Leave the State!

California, Love It or Leave It

So, a member of the Riverside County Board of Supervisors – Jeff Stone, a Republican – has proposed splitting the state of California, with San Diego and the largely rural, Republican-leaning south east of the state becoming “South California,” and LA remaining with the liberal coast and northern part of the state. You can follow the link to the LA Times for the map of what his proposal would look like. Secession proposals of this nature are a hardy perennial on the Left and Right alike, and are almost always bad ideas, although there is at least a fair argument that California as currently constituted is (1) too large any longer to serve the role of responding to local needs unmet from Washington that is a major part of why we have a federal system in the first place (as the LAT notes, “[t]he proposed 51st state would be the fifth largest by population, more populous than Illinois, Ohio and Pennsylvania”), (2) essentially dysfunctional, and (3) particularly unresponsive to the needs of the 13 million residents of the 13 counties in question.

But what’s really interesting here isn’t a proposal by one member of the board of one county, but rather the response by a spokesman for Governor Jerry Brown:

“If you want to live in a Republican state with very conservative right-wing laws, then there’s a place called Arizona,” Brown spokesman Gil Duran said.

Now, I don’t know about you, but saying that millions of residents should just leave the state if they don’t like California’s liberal laws, dysfunctional finances and horrendous business climate doesn’t really disprove the point that the Sacramento elite really and truly do not care about the Republican-leaning parts of the state or the people in them. California’s unemployment rate is 11.7% compared to 9.1% for the nation as a whole (given California’s size, I’d guess without doing the math that means the rest of the country may be as much as a full three points below CA). Even the NY Times says California’s budget crisis may be the worst in the nation, with a $26.6 billion budget deficit comprising nearly a third of the state’s budget. California owes $2,362 in debt per resident of the state, and pays a 20% premium to borrow money compared to better-run states; its A- credit rating from Standard & Poor’s is the worst in the nation. A recent budget deal only barely convinced S&P to avoid an immediate further downgrade, and S&P is still concerned that the deal doesn’t solve the state’s long-term “backlog of budget obligations accumulated during the past decade”.

Gov. Brown’s office may think that’s a record to get cocky about, but maybe it’s time California showed a little humility about the failures of its political culture and business climate, and learned a few things from its more conservative neighbors – and maybe even from some of its own citizens.

COMMENTS

  • NeoKong

    If you want to live in a state that is owned by public employees,crazy industry killing liberals and illegal aliens and soon to go broke then California is the place to be.

    • johncox

      We know that Secession won’t happen. Too much tax money is generated in South California.

      The answer is to restructure the legislature. Carve it into much smaller districts to greatly lessen or eliminate the union and special interest influence. Decentralization is the key.

      Check out the proposal in Rescuecalifornia.org.

  • pantera

    How bout keeping it 1 state but call south a District of California.
    A separate entity unto itself. Different tax base,no wealth transfer,total anonymity and delegates.

    • kliff

      I would want to remain anonymous also. However, I suspect you were going for ‘ autonomous ‘.

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

    nt

    • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

      Let California pass even more liberalized laws related to welcoming and supportive of illegal immigrants. When it’s loaded with illegals, give the whole freaking state to Mexico in settlement of their “Azatlan” claims.

      • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

        Yes, “strategery” — another bushism that Bush never said

    • dolleybird

      Thumbs up!!

      • soljerblue

        and Jerry Brown could get a job cleaning latrines in President Calderon’s executive mansion.

  • ja_ak

    Using the May numbers. California has 18,065 in the labor force, with 11.7% unemployed; the US as a whole has 153,693, at 9.1%. All numbers seasonally adjusted.

    • baserunr

      the unemployment rate if you exclude Texas?

      • ja_ak

        I think I’m going to be chasing my tail all day if I answer that one! Isn’t Texas well below the national average?

    • http://www.baseballcrank.com Dan McLaughlin

      That’s the math I didn’t have time to do.

    • cwilson

      Or, CA’s “excess” unemployment raises the national rate by 0.35%.

  • Alpip

    I live in one of the 13 counties included in what ostensibly would become South California. My initial reaction was “what would change?” We would be ruled by a different set of autocrats, only slightly less crazed than to ones we are currently ruled by.

    For a long time I’ve thought “okay, we’ll hit bottom soon and things will start to turn around. We hit bottom a long tome ago, and the idiots keep DIGGING!

    I wrote a piece in Jan 2010 about California heading for a green train wreck and several others along the same bent, but never in my wildest imagination did I ever think that Californian’s would (re)elect Gov Moonbeam … again, and on top of that, for the first time ever, elect Democrats to all of the state-wide offices.

    Creating another state couldn’t hurt things any more than they’re already being destroyed … but I’m not so sure it would ultimately help!

    From: #InvestedtoDeepinCAtoGetOut

    • Vannek

      I love this idea and would be happy to move out of Alameda County for someplace more Red. The first order of business for the new state would have to be building a wall to keep out the crime and misery (unemployment, immigration, and entitlement problems) in the Leftward Leftovers.

      • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

        …and tie-breaker. Are you east of the hills or west?

        • Vannek

          I live west of the hills, and I work in Berkeley… ’nuff said.

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

            …is to serve as flypaper.

      • arken1

        I live in Contra Costa County (east SF bay area). My wife and I, both conservatives, have for some time been considering moving out of our blue California sate because our vote simply doesn’t count here. It has no effect on either the Presidential election or the balance of the Senate.

        Initially, we considered red states. However, after some consideration, we have come to realize that our vote really won’t have any effect on either of the above either.

        Now we’re wondering if it would be more effective to move to a pink state (one that votes R more often that D), a purple state (one that alternates evenly between R and D) or a light blue state (one that votes D more often than R).

        We’ve been looking for a blog where people are discussing this issue but have yet to find one. Might there be a movement of conservatives to move to a particular state to change it from any of the three options above to a red state?

    • johnstoirvin

      “We would be ruled by a different set of autocrats, only slightly less crazed than to ones we are currently ruled by.”

      “Ruled” is the operative word here. That is exactly the mindset of those we employ to work on our behalf, both in your state and in Washington, DC, but they choose to rule instead of represent. Maybe they’ve just got their “R’s” mixed up.

    • drothgery

      … gets the greater SF area out of my state (I live in San Diego). I’d rather not have LA in my state, but LA can be dealt with; even with Hollywood, it’s pretty much a normal big city (and hence has moderate to conservative suburbs for the most part), just a very big one. SF, on the other hand, has liberal suburbs (even if in Silicon Valley they do have some vague understanding of economics).

    • Menlo

      A Wall Street Journal article addressed the history of attempts by states to split up.

      Apparently the state of California had approved the state of Southern California, but Congress rejected it. The looming Civil War took precedence.

      Apparently, even Chicago had tinkered with the idea in the early 1900′s.

      • Menlo

        Not sure what happened there

  • http://charlemagne-the-hammer.blogspot.com/ DerKrieger

    …I support not only secession but an amicable divorce. The differences between Left and Right are simply insurmountable and I don’t really want to spend the rest of my life battling for my liberty and the conservative agenda. Let the Lefties form their own country. It will be no small dose of schadenfruede to watch them rapidly descend into totalitarianism. We conservatives are the economic fuel for the socialist parasitic agenda of the Left. Let’s cut them off before they kill us.

    • izoneguy

      And in some small measure that is what is going on. I have stopped paying myself and I am living off what I had saved up. I plan on doing this until Obama is gone. Read my lips – no taxes to you pal. And this is going on nationwide.
      Many other business owners I know are in neutral. Just idling until Obama is unemployed. The left just does not get it. They can “raise” tax rates all they want – it does not mean they will get them.

    • cwilson

      given the (a) realities of illegal immigration in south CA, and (b) the lack of verification for voting in that state. And I certainly don’t want to REWARD idiot Californians with another two Senators.

      Frankly, I wish there was some way that such badly run, disfunctional, BROKE, and effectively bankrupt states could be “undone” and revert to territorial status. Kinda like receivership for bankrupt businesses.

      • drothgery

        Without SF and LA, South California could deal with illegal immigration at least as well as Arizona does. And given that this would basically be San Diego + Orange County + farm country (and some largely empty desert) — well, we’d probably elect hawkish RINOs who love Ag subsidies, but it won’t be Boxer and DiFi.

  • izoneguy

    Best/Worst States for Business

    http://chiefexecutive.net/best-worst-states-for-business

    California, once a business friendly state, continues to conduct a war on its own economy. According to the Pacific Research Institute, it has the fourthlargest government of all U.S. states, with spending equal to 18.3 percent of GDP. The comparable figure for Texas is 12.1 percent. Survey respondents uniformly say the state?s regulators are hostile. ?No one in his right mind would start a new manufacturing concern here,? said one California CEO.

    Although California is not unique in pursuing policies that prompt wealth and job creators to expand elsewhere, (New York being a good example), the Golden State seems uniquely oblivious to the effect its labor and other regulations are having on its innovative and growth-oriented Silicon Valley. Job growth in the Valley has flatlined. Firms keep their HQs there, but pursue growth in friendlier states. Google, Intel, Cisco and other companies locate new plants in states such as Arizona, Utah, Texas, Virginia or North Dakota.

    Sacramento seems to take perverse delight in job-killing legislation, of which the pair of bills known as California?s ?Green Chemistry Initiative? that former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law in September 2008 serve as an example. The regulations mandated that ?manufacturers seek safer alternatives to toxic chemicals in their products, and create tough governmental responses for lack of compliance.? When the 92-page final set of commands was issued, the ?green community? demanded a rewrite with even tougher requirements. Writing in the Washington Examiner, Chapman University Law professor Hugh Hewitt said that the new rules will mandate testing and labeling changes on tens of thousands of products, likely triggering product recalls. ?Take whatever you think is the worst regulatory regime out there, and expand it exponentially.?

    Then there is the state?s carbon emission law (AB 32), which the Small Business Roundtable and PRI say will cost half a million in foregone jobs in 2011 and up to 1.3 million jobs by 2020. What?s more, it is by no means certain the law will reduce carbon emissions since it only applies to California.

    • http://www.baseballcrank.com Dan McLaughlin

      nt

  • jeepingeoff

    …..but we already left.

    Idyut.

    • JoeG

      They are causing havoc in the neighboring states. They ruined Cali but seem unable to realize that it was their own political views that is ruining Cali.

      • edintexas

        The definition of “neighboring” includes any state with employment. They are a threat to those states, though states where the jobs tend to be labor intensive (e.g. working in the oil patch) are a bit safer from this scourge than others with white collar/technology jobs.

        • YnotNOW

          here in Colorado (and other states too)!

          • izoneguy

            It keeps most of the Kalifornia pansies away. If they do come at least most of them don’t stay long. 102 today, 103 tomorrow……

  • Tbone

    Taxpayers and tax consumers and yes, public employees are very much net tax consumers.

    Taxpayers have been leaving California for years leaving an ever increasing percentage of tax consumers. The eventual outcome of this is apparent to all but Liberals who have no core moral values and no fundamental ability to understand even rudimentary economics.

    Personally, I would leave California and move to Arizona but Becker would want me to hang out with me and I can’t afford his bar tabs.

  • Finrod

    Let it be ruled as a federal territory for a while until it gets at least partly straightened out, then split it up into three states, or maybe more.

    • Alpip

      And you think the Federal government would do better? Especially the Hope’nChange crowd currently playing in their DC sandbox! But even a group of adults would screw it up to a fair the well. If the Feds took over California, or any other state for that matter, it would end all possibility of regaining our constitutional republic.

      I agree that the state is far to large for it to be representative to its diverse citizenry. But … it has to be up to the citizens of California how they are organized. Certainly not a bunch of Pols in Washington!

      • Finrod

        The only difference would be that California residents would be under 1 bad government instead of 2.

  • california_red

    The liberal bastions will never get it. It doesn’t matter to my fellow citizens that we are borrowing and spending beyond our means. I was crushed in 2010 when the red wave and tea party surge failed to make it to CA.

    The average person has no clue the true state of affairs. The Obama administration will have to keep the shell game going.

    • westcoastpatriette

      And suspect election fraud–on a massive scale–to be part of the problem. If decent Californians–and there are a lot of us–do not rise up and overthrow this madness, we are doomed.

      The Moonbeam’s flippant response to Supervisor Stone’s suggestion to secede is a reflection of the snit the Dems are in because they had to pass the budget without any tax increases and they are pissed off at all the Reps that stopped them. Poor babies.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    As a proud Texan, I would like to invite all CONSERVATIVE HARDWORKING Californians and their businesses to consider a move to Texas. Liberal deadbeats and pariah must remain in Kali. We already have enough of those guys in Austin.

    Another option would be to secede and become a part of west Texas. Either way is good.

    • ahill6853

      I agree!

  • JoeG

    Only if you define the bay area as “Northern.”

    Barring the hippies on the coast, once you get North of the bay area California is very conservative.

  • rdm42

    . . .are leaving. Self deporting. Moving to Texas and Arizona. And then they can’t figure out why the tax revenue is drying up as everyone who actually produces anythignn goes away leaving behind only leaches with none to suck blood from/.

  • bk

     

    • Alpip

      Collapse like a house of cards …

  • eddiethegeek

    The good news is that there is stark difference in the outcomes of liberalism in states such as California and Massachusetts versus states that practice conservatism (Texas and the rest of the South). The voters are beginning to notice.

  • funwithknives

    is doing now to OUR economy. Creating uncertainty does nothing to enhance productive efforts. My wife in fluent in Metalworking and brings home countless periodicals, regarding Her avocation, and many others.(Oil exploration, Infrastructure,design are only a few) An editorial I noted last year (Written by a California Resident) was most explicit in stating no one in their right mind should ever start a business there, as The State was always trying to be a leader in everything Progressive and you could never predict expenditures. Being Cutting Edge is all well and good, but to just demand and not realize mandates have consequences has been counterproductive, to say the least. But few if any Progressives want to think ,”IN TOTAL”, and all others (you know, the Producers and EARNERS) are left to muddle through.(“BUT WE’RE For The People”!) Some of the out-migration’s effects can be seen in Colorado, where existing residents complain that when Californians move there, they bring their politics with them. Haven’t seen this much in Texas, maybe the less Utopian weather makes these immigrants a different breed. Since repetition of a mistake (BROWN TIMES TWO) suggests Mass Insanity of a sort, maybe it’s only correct that out-movements accelerate. Consider it a form of what Sam Kinison used to shout to hungry multitudes: “MOVE TO WHERE THE FOOD IS!” OR Freedom and Prosperity, as the case may be.

  • quill67

    If California was split into a conservative and liberal part, the conservative part would grow, business would thrive in both the conservative and liberal state (some spill over from the conservative portion)

    However, liberals, as individuals, don’t like paying taxes or having difficult regulations so they would move to the conservative state and yet keep their liberal voting ideas. Soon, the conservative part would be over-run with liberals.

    This is what is happening in New Hampshire. We would then have two liberal states with 2 additional liberal senators in the U.S. Senate. The only way to divide California would be in such a way that the liberals would not be willing to move to the conservative portion of the state. Perhaps over the mountain divide in the more farming areas. A new conservative state with 10 electorial votes would be much preferable to two liberal states with about 25 electorial votes each.

    • Alpip

      In my original post I had intended on going into this very point!

      I live in one of the 13 counties included in what ostensibly would become South California. My initial reaction was ?what would change?? We would be ruled by a different set of autocrats, only slightly less crazed than to ones we are currently ruled by.

      The community I live in is still fairly conservative, but other parts of Orange County are moving to a more liberal bent. The major cities in Riverside, San Bernardino and Imperial counties are liberal as well.

      My brother moved to New Hampshire about 15 years ago and he told me that all the faux-conservatives from Boston are moving north to escape the Boston Liberals and bring their own brand of mini-liberalism with them, just as happened in Orange County and the Los Angeles mini-liberals did before he left.

      • rocketeer

        You ruin where you are and move out. But since you bring your culture with you, prepare to ruin a new community.

        In the Chicago western suburbs, previously home only to Republicians, we have stuff like that as well. But not merely transplanted Chicagoians. People from *here* bring their park district programs, with all that soccer and we just *gotta* have it to be a premier community. Then people from *there* have the super high school sports programs (really, do you really need varsity, Jr Varsity A and two Jr Varisty B squads?). And on it goes, until you’re taxed to death.

        • YnotNOW

          in that the refugees fleeing Califorina come here, and like the difference, and then strive to make it just as bad.
          (sorry if I am slamming anyone here with my over-generalization – there are many good people moving in, but such a large liberal influx has made Colorado go “purple”)

  • realskinny

    The LA TIMES says such a new state would be dysfunctional and particularly unresponsive to the needs of the residents? They already have that. That’s a pretty good description of the government in Sacramento.

  • mspector

    the word “humility” does not belong anywhere in any discussion of our state’s policies or the attitude of Sacramento toward the citizens. We are, after all, a state whose Legislature has been unable to produce a balanced budget for so long we cannot even summon our collective memory to remember where it was, but that same Legislature does have the time to mandate politically correct “gender awareness” courses in our schools.

    There was a time, when Wilson and Deukmejian were in office, that the state did have some semblance of fiscal and political sanity. Today, when the best the Republicans can offer is Schwarzenegger or Meg Whitman, the possibility that such a day will come again is more than remote.

    The bottom line here is that South California may as well secede and leave LA to the tender mercies of San Francisco and Sacramento. We have been two states for decades. No real good reason not to make that reality. At least we wouldn’t have a “state” government sucking us dry.

  • desiree1880

    A divided California would be as lovely as a delightful Banana Split. I left California in ’99 after being there most of my life from childhood on. I’ll never return and I love that state for it’s geographical diversity,it’s a beautiful state once prosperous now in a liberal shambles. The split should be East and West. The west being the left coast with stupid San Francisco as it’s capitol or equally stupid Berkeley. The East retaining it’s capitol with Sacramento(which has a larger conservative populace versus lefties). The central valley could once again flourish with agriculture and screw the Delta Smelt. No gun laws means less crime. No taxes with enactment of the Fair Tax as the only tax. Gold or silver coin would be the only acceptable money as federal reserve notes would be considered useless fraudulent fiat money unacceptable in Eastern California. The Auburn Dam would get restarted to completion,Rancho Seco nuclear power retrofitted,updated and brought back to life,thereby energy needs satisfied to more than meet demand and PG&E put out of business except for the left coast. Eastern California would boom. Left Coast residents would not be able to purchase firearms in the East just like the whole state can’t purchase in Nevada,Arizona,or Oregon now. Eastern residents would enjoy restoration of 2nd Amendment rights to buy at home with no waiting period or from a bordering state just like all the others. Nice,huh? Illegals would be deported back to their home country or to San Francisco,Richmond,Santa Monica and L.A. where they’re welcome. Eastern California would become a model for the nation just like California once was. The Left Coast to the West would become the model for misery just like the whole state is now.

    • myron_j_poltroonian

      I have for years now been saying almost the very same thing. “As goes California, so goes the nation”; we’ve all heard that one. Right? Well, I’ve determined that California doesn’t have so much of a “North/South” problem, as it does an “East/West” problem. Just look at a map of the election results time after time on a county by county basis to see what I mean. The “Tail” of Two Cities (or Metro Areas) is that San Francisco and Los Angles decide our fate, which direction we go, et cetera. As it is in almost any other state I can think of. (I, by the way, believe I-5 should be the dividing line. To the east? California. To the west? Mexifornia. and, I do not mean that in a racist way, hell, I work for the Cervantes family business. (O.k., o.k., if that name bothers you, how about one we already know and associate with the current state of California. “La-La Land”?) Rather I’m referring to the manner in which our majority Democrat politicians in California are pandering to La Raza (which means “The Race” (and it ain’t Anglos, my friends) and all that that entails, just for one example. Or, to promise the sky to the now institutionally down-trodden (as long as they continue to vote for them, of course) paid for by other peoples money. Many of the posts here typify what is sadly missing in our country today. An understanding of the very principles our founders laid down for us, and, more importantly, their reasons why. How many of these so-called “Enlightened Ones” know, understand, or, most egregiously, even care why we have an “Electoral College”? They only think (and I use that term loosely) that a “Tyranny of the Majority” happens if the Republicans are in charge. (Watch them come screeching out of the woodwork on that one) They won’t even see the similarities between their actions to stifle dissent and impose their oh so enlightened mandates “For the ‘good of the people’ ” as compared to what they rail against from “the ‘other’ side”. You cannot say anything that would offend anyone. Unless, of course, that offense is committed against a “Non-Protected Class”. Then you may offend and call names to your little black hearted, progressive content. You must be either “Pro-choice”, or “Pro-Life”. No in-between allowed. Well, I choose to think for myself. I am “Pro-Informed Decision”. Yes at the moment of conception, it is a life, a human life, for how could it be otherwise? However, you do have the right to destroy that life if, and I mean only if, you realize and understand that that is what you are doing (or promoting). That “Viable” or not; amorphous “Mass” or not, it is life, a human life and should be treated as such. Don’t give me that crap about the poor, scared teen aged girl and her tender sensibilities, unable to cope. For far too many years now, the enlightened ones have promoted showing these very same poor, tender “incapables” tobacco ravaged lungs, or taking them to an emergency room to see first hand the results of drinking and driving, for me to place any credence in their false cries of despair. Yes America, there is a divide, and it is not the Tea Party movement that is dividing us.

  • bk

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/28/news/economy/California_companies/index.htm

    The guy who’s supposed to fix it all? Would you believe ex-SF mayor Gavin Newsom? I love at the end of the article how we learn they don’t really need to change anything – except perceptions.

    Later this year, California will set up a new agency that will serve as a focal point for economic development and job creation, he [Newsom] said. Among its goals will be to reverse the perception that California is business-unfriendly.

    • izoneguy

      How do they propose to do that? Because California is very unfriendly to business. Those companies in California like Apple and the like make so much profit that they don’t care how much money they are losing by the location they are at. They love to say that the California lifestyle attracts employees….but for how long?

  • Common_Cents

    Other states should ship all the illegals rounded up to CA sanctuary cities. Let them eat their words and walk their talk.

  • charm2

    What is this need California lefties have to attack AZ, their neighbor state? They trashed them over their immigration law and drove bus loads of people to protest there. In addition, they boycotted them.. Now they call them out in a hateful way over their own in state problems. Guess they are getting are getting short tempered waiting for their bail out from BO.