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A Further Response To Avik Roy on Establishments

Negotiation Ain't Beanbag

My original essay on the current divide between the GOP “Establishment,” on the one hand, and the Tea Party and other anti-Establishment factions, on the other, sought to explain the leading issue (the growth of spending and the size of government relative to the private sector), the proximate cause (the loss of trust that the GOP Establishment would make a serious effort to stem this tide) and the underlying history that led to the wide fissure currently visible in the party and the movement on the Right. As I noted in my followup essay, the loss of trust in the Establishment over spending is by no means the only such divide, but it’s the one that has brought longstanding tensions out in the open and has overcome the natural tendencies of Republicans and conservatives to defer to authority, hierarchy and gradualism. The break is not a sudden onset of irrationality, as some would have us believe, but an entirely rational response to a long and depressing history of failure to check the growth of federal spending, the federal entitlement state, and federal regulation, leading us to the point where our private sector can no longer carry the burden of a perpetually growing public sector.

RoyThis observation has led me into an argument with Avik Roy, a senior healthcare fellow at the Manhattan Institute, professional healthcare analyst and healthcare writer at Forbes and National Review, who insists that conservative voters who have lost faith after some six decades of unkept promises by Republican candidates to stem the tide of growth in government spending and regulation should continue to trust that this time, the promises of such politicians will be different because they have white papers and proposals that would lead to “entitlement reform” (note that Roy nowhere promises that any such reforms would actually reduce the ratio of public expenditure to private production). Roy relies on a false comparison: the fact that not all anti-Establishment candidates for office have offered substantive solutions to the growth of entitlement reform, whereas an ideal Establishment candidate would do so.

This is a straw man argument, and one that continues to ignore history, Congressional dynamics, the basics of negotiation and the actual facts of the current Presidential race. In fact, Roy’s analysis is impractical and detached from reality. The practical reality is that, without pressure and leadership from the anti-Establishment wing of the party, nothing will get done. And the long and dolorous history of prior efforts to restrain spending, entitlement spending and regulation amply justifies the mistrust of Establishment figures who offer purely theoretical solutions and refuse to take political risks to make them a reality.

Here is how Roy frames his preferred approach to reducing spending:

The ideal candidate, in fact, combines thoughtful policy proposals, persistence in the face of partisan opposition, wisdom in picking the most productive political battles, and the ability to persuade moderates and liberals to join the cause.

This sounds good in theory – I might phrase it rather differently, but that’s not far from how I’d formulate the best way to get major legislation passed – but the problem, as I have noted previously, is a persistent GOP failure to follow through on doing this to reduce federal spending.

In response to my point that Republicans have only once (in the case of welfare reform pushed by Newt Gingrich in the mid-1990s, accompanied by reductions in federal spending as a percentage of GDP) ever actually made any headway in doing anything of the sort, what does Roy choose as his example of how his preferred approach would work in practice? Obamacare. I swear I am not making this quote up:

Did President Obama loudly campaign for single-payer health care in order to pass Obamacare? Quite the opposite: he sought to reassure voters that nothing would change for them. What succeeds in politics is to persuade moderates of the moderation of your positions, while laying the groundwork for longer-term structural reform.

The most cynical Democratic partisan would have difficulty coming up with a more tendentious retelling of the passage of Obamacare. As anyone who followed politics in 2009-10 could remind you, Obamacare was passed on a strict party-line vote, in an act of pure political muscle over the objections of an outraged citizenry, via a combination of procedural shenanigans, obfuscation of the contents of the bill, and bald-faced bribery. Nor did Obama obtain the large majorities needed to enact this show of political force by the methods Roy suggests; his victory in 2008 was triggered primarily by a financial crisis having nothing to do with health care, by public fatigue with his predecessor having nothing to do with health care, and by appeals to the “historic” nature of his racial identity as a candidate having nothing to do with health care.

There are three basic models for pushing major legislation. At one end of the spectrum is cooperation, which happens when both sides of the aisle have a common goal, and must put aside partisanship and mutual suspicion to work towards it. At the other – represented by Obamacare – is annihilation, which happens when one side wants something the other cannot possibly agree to, and wins by gaining sufficient power to make changes without the other party’s consent (this is not necessarily improper – elections have consequences – but it becomes problematic when fleeting majorities are used to enact permanent changes). But a lot of legislative business falls in the middle ground: negotiation, what happens when the two sides have opposing interests but it is not impossible to move one or the other off their intractable opposition.

Roy seems to believe that reductions in federal entitlement and other spending can be achieved through cooperation, but this has no basis whatsoever in reality. Anything that reduces federal spending is diametrically opposed to the interests of the Democratic Party. Oh, you may be able to find the odd Democrat willing to offer bipartisan cover, but look at how the party responds to Ron Wyden’s tepid efforts at outreach:

[H]is critics – and they are legion in Democratic ranks – say he’s a political opportunist promoting himself at the expense of the party and its values.

Asked if there was frustration among Senate Democrats with Wyden over Medicare, Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) told POLITICO: “I’ve heard that sentiment expressed.”

But he quickly added that he’s also heard “some say that initiating a bipartisan conversation that will preserve Medicare is worthwhile. So let’s see if the Ryan-Wyden approach meets that test.”

Privately, the criticism is more biting.

“Democrats believe in Medicare and, rather than bolster it, Wyden undermined a great issue for us all so he could grab a couple of headlines,” one furious Democratic source said. “Just embarrassing.”

At the opposite end, I would agree with Roy that annihilation of the Democrats’ power of resistance on Medicare reforms is unlikely and not even necessarily desirable, as the example of Obamacare suggests how unstable a program can be when the opposition party, backed with majority public support, remains dedicated to overturning the result.

That leaves negotiation, which is ordinarily how the sausage gets made in Washington and most state capitols: one side has the votes to get close to the goal line, then uses a combination of public pressure, threats and inducements to drag out enough bipartisan support to get a bill passed. Roy’s analysis, in addition to ignoring history and the current situation on Capitol Hill, fails to grasp the essentials of how a negotiation works.

As anyone who has ever participated in a negotiation knows, you bring the other side to the table by having positions that are both strong (you stand firmly on something clear and defensible) and credible (it’s believable that you would go to war for your position). Maybe you get everything you want, but if you don’t, standing on principle is a position of strength. It’s a truism of political brinksmanship that candidates who campaign on principle deliver compromise; candidates who campaign on compromise deliver squat. If you advertise your willingness to take a deal, any deal, you get what George H.W. Bush got in 1990: the tax hikes Democrats wanted, and a bunch of illusory promises in return about meaningless budgetary firewalls. The historically minded will remember that it was this deal that catapulted Newt Gingrich to prominence as a critic of Bush’s betrayal of his “read my lips” pledge.

A candidate who is unwilling to make the case for a principled position on the campaign trail is unlikely to convince anyone in a negotiation that he will stand on that position – he will get rolled the same way Mitt Romney got rolled in the health care negotiations in Massachusetts. Which is precisely how my argument about trust relates to the current presidential race. On the one hand, you have Newt Gingrich, who has a record of actually accomplishing entitlement (welfare) reform; Newt had his successes and his failures negotiating with the wily Bill Clinton, but he at least has has the experience of not coming away from the bargaining table empty-handed. (As Erick has noted, George Stephanopoulos wrote in his memoir that the Clinton White House was within 24 hours of caving to Newt on the government shutdown when Bob Dole caved and cut a deal for a separate peace.) Newt has been willing to talk about his substantive proposals on the stump, and despite the many reasons why a Newt campaign seemed implausible, his audiences have come away impressed by his substantive policy detail.

On the other hand, you have Mitt Romney, who campaigns in gassy generalities, recites his favorite patriotic songs on the stump, is quick to attack from the left any opponent who has the temerity to suggest entitlement reforms, and promises his audience:

“I understand a few of you here are on Medicare. Is that true? [Laughter]

“That being the case, I hope you tell your friends who always fear that Republicans somehow might go after Medicare. You can tell them a couple things. Number one: We will never go after Medicare or Social Security, we will protect those programs. But also, you make sure and tell them this. There’s only one president in history that’s cut Medicare 500 billion dollars. And that’s Barack Obama. And guess what he did it for? He did it to pay for Obamacare?

“So if I’m president, I will protect Medicare and Social Security for those that are currently retired or near retirement, and I’ll make sure we keep those programs solvent for the next generations coming along. We will protect America’s seniors and America’s young people with programs that are designed to keep them well and safe. And I will make sure that we protect Medicare and Social Security.”

This is not exactly how you build a mandate for entitlement reform.

Roy somehow manages to survey this landscape, ignore the actual records in office of Romney and Gingrich, ignore both candidates’ behavior on the trail, and pronounce that “[o]f the four Republican Presidential candidates who remain standing, the one who most comprehensively lacks the[] qualities [needed to accomplish spending cuts and entitlement reform] is Newt Gingrich.” Roy seems to have forgotten his own critique of Ron Paul, a critique I agree with: “Ron Paul votes against everything, knowing that he can, because his votes are inconsequential. Indeed, Paul actively detracts from true entitlement reform by claiming that we can balance the budget solely by slashing defense.” But even that aside, the fact that Romney is unwilling to sell voters on the need for, or benefits from, entitlement reform is proof positive that he is the candidate least likely to muster any popular consensus for anything other than massive tax hikes to prop up the system. At least Gingrich has a record of getting things done on Capitol Hill, a realistic sense of how to do so, and a willingness to take his case to the voters.

Roy’s proposed recommendation for conservative voters unwilling to trust Romney’s approach is to talk about Mitch Daniels, who is not even running. I like Mitch Daniels and respect what he’s done in Indiana, although I soured on him as a presidential candidate because he didn’t seem interested in running (and ultimately didn’t run), because he had a tin ear for major factions of the party such as social conservatives, and because his monotone delivery seemed unlikely to keep the public engaged in listening to him. If we’re talking hypothetical candidates, it may be my Northeastern-Irish-Catholic-lawyer speaking, but I’d prefer the approach of Chris Christie, who tells hard truths bluntly and confrontationally and wins the public’s respect by his willingness – like that of Newt, and unlike Romney – to engage in substantive argument about both policy and political philosophy.

(You don’t need Christie’s eloquence to follow this model; Scott Walker has gotten a lot done in Wisconsin by a willingness to take large political risks and the iron resolve to back them up at the negotiating table).

What’s more, Christie illustrates the real difference between getting significant reforms passed in a naturally red-leaning environment and a more politically difficult climate. The hardball of Washington today, where annihilation has made cooperation nearly extinct, is far more comparable to the challenges of governing a state as fractious and divisive as New Jersey than it is a state that has voted for a Democrat presidential candidate just twice since 1940. There are many things to like about restrained leaders of the past – but as politics has become more combative, and the press more willing to peddle falsehoods for their favored side, their utility on the national stage has decreased. I’m uninterested in a candidate who brings a white paper to a gun fight.

I have no doubt that Roy believes, in good faith, that simply embracing thoughtful written proposals and working with the same old personnel is sufficient to bring about bipartisan compromise in the nation’s best interests. But six decades of American political history argue that his solutions are doomed to grief without significant changes in the GOP’s willingness to do political combat to restrain spending. Anti-Establishment voters may not always have candidates equal to that task, but they nonetheless represent the last, best hope for forcing our political system to face the crisis at hand before it is too late.

COMMENTS

  • sadams

    you appear to be far more optimistic than I am about the prospects for a negotiated reform of entitlements. I have been following this issue for more than 30 years, and over that time I have gone from optimism to pessimism to fatalism to agnosticism. Why? There is simply no indication that I can see that a majority of the American public will ever accept substantive changes to entitlements, at least not at the levels required to achieve budgetary stability. At this point I think the best approach for conservatives is to focus their firepower on keeping taxes down, particularly on the most productive sectors of the economy, and not burning political capital on cuts to popular programs. I see three possible trajectories going forward. First, if the Democrats have their way (and public polls unfortunately tend to support their going in this direction), we will end up with much higher, if not crushing, taxes on the productive sectors of the economy at the same time that huge interest rate and inflationary pressures on the economyare exacerbated as the Boomers retire. Second, a negotiated solution that slightly alters the foregoing scenario, but not materially. Third, Republicans succeed in holding down tax increases, and the economy goes into several decades-long interest rate/inflationary/stagnation spiral. For years I was terrified of scenario number 3. Today, I am convinced that the economic burden of the entitlement fiasco will be spread far more fairly over the general population than Congress could ever do, plus, if we have economic productivity from a low tax environment we might be able to mitigate some of the worst impacts on the economy. Hence, the best option at this point is to hold the line on taxes, give lip service to entitlement reform, but keep the political powder dry. Maybe several decades from now we will be able to reform entitlements when there are fewer aged people with “skin in the game”. Thoughts?

    • http://www.baseballcrank.com Dan McLaughlin

      but the only way out is forward.

      • gbenton

        Obama and the Democrats feign to be ‘centrist’ to get elected and then attempt things like Hillarycare and Obamacare once elected.

        Get elected on popular things like tax cuts and then once in office, assuming sufficient votes, give the voters what they need – entitlement reform. that exempts those over 55.

        We are at a crossroads because of the last 60 years of ‘bipartisan’ growth of government. The right kept caving while the left kept building permanent infrastructure.

        The right has been stupid to cede ground to the Dems – and should have fought to hold the line.

        We need a unified front where the GOP actually falls in line, not just at the voting booth, but like the Democrats did on Obamacare, to annihilate the opposition.

        There IS no other option because the Dems will do it to the GOP whether the GOP tries to do the same or not.

        It is time to destroy the left, not ‘work with it’.

        Every single failure in our society can be linked to leftist policies of dependence and decay. Leftists need to be blamed, in detail, for ALL of it and called unAmerican, as Congressman West did the other day.

        We compromise and we lose. That’s why the GOP has such a divide. The Tea Party get it, the entrenched establishment has sold out to government goodies and is uninterested.

        I do not believe that generations of GOP have been too stupid to negotiate better… they would rather appear stupid than what is really true… they have no interest in delivering on campaign promises because they like big government.

        Either the GOP listens to the Tea Party – or it goes the way of the Whigs.

        Since all the GOP does is fail, honestly, who cares?

        • gbenton

          The Tea Party cares.

          And that is why I believe the Tea Party is the GOP’s only hope because American doesn’t care to elect Doles and McCains and probably not Romney’s.

          Reagan got re-elected. Bush Sr. didn’t.

          If there is to be compromise, it should be between the establishment and the Tea Party to realize that the GOP succeeds when we elect fighters for American values and liberty.

          As a Perry supporter, I go into this election bewildered at the available choices… but lean Newt and pray he doesn’t implode.

          • sadams

            Tea partiers will never be a majority nationally, which probably means they will never be able to elect a President, but they can have a huge impact regoinally and in particular states and Congressional districts. The key is to make sure there are enough “DeMints” in Congress to block (for the most part) legislation that increases taxes or expands entitlements. My fear with Romney is that the teal party may become dispirited about the Congressional races and the game will be lost whether Romney is elected or not, since a Romney presidency would almost certainly “wheel and deal” with a Democratic majority in Congress, the same way he did in Massachusetts.

          • gbenton

            I’ve heard it said that 40% of the country votes Dem and 40% votes GOP reliably – and that elections are about fighting for that 20% ‘independent’ swing vote.

            Tea Party from what I’ve heard includes conservative and libertarian independents who’ve left the GOP since Reagan.

            Tea Party in my view only needs to hold enough sway to tip elections in the primary to boot RINOs…though it seems to work regionally much better than in this presidential cycle, I’ll admit.

            The GOP needs to fear the Tea Party to keep them accountable… we don’t need an absolute majority.

            As this article points out, the ‘base’ is disenchanted not just by this cycle, but by decades of broken promises. I think the historic wave in 2010 shows that we’re not in ‘normal’ times. Pent up frustration is too high to quietly roll over again for another establishment dweeb who won’t actually do anything.

            Our backs are to a wall and not doing anything isn’t an option – and the other side is not taking prisoners.

            We need a fighter if we are to survive…. DeMint is one of few who seem to get it.

          • creinstein

            Though official numbers might sound low… this is propoganda.

            9-12 project brought about a million plus in DC. Many more, like myself, wished to attend but could not.

            More rallies were held on the same day as well.

            We are numerous, and we vote. This is why we have a strong edge. We are independants and Conservatives and Republicans…

            This is why we had such a landslide in 2010, and since we are being ignored why the Democrats might hold their ground in 2012.

            We can and will Primary People, we can and will decide presidential elections by our voting or not voting, we can change the course of our nation.

            Consider the last two years a learning lesson for most of the Tea Party. They got angry, now that anger is simmering under a lid due to party establishment.

            If we fail to get a Conservative in 2012 elected… expect a majority of our party to not get re-elected in 2014

          • gbenton

            I personally can’t not vote for the nominee… I have to vote against Obama.

            But you make a point that is unavoidable… the establishment has successfully ‘put a lid’ on the Tea Party with the House and Senate GOP since the midterms, and the primary season so far as left Newt (!) as the only proxy for the TP in this cycle.

            The establishment might think they’ve succeeded in making the TP sit down and shut up – but at what cost?

            By my thinking, if the GOP had been keeping the faith with Reagan since 1988 there would be no need for the Tea Party. All the indies who are more conservative or libertarian than the GOP would be within the tent.

            If the beltway GOP didn’t learn from McCain and pushed Romney, then perhaps they don’t get it that is truly electoral suicide to field Rinos.

            But will be have a country left in 2014 and 2016 to field better candidates?

            Debt is NOW 100% of GDP. Obamacare is on track to permanence if the Supremes don’t kneecap it. I just can’t fathom why the GOP establishment felt NOW would be a good time to run a weenie.

          • sadams

            remember that he was, after all, the same person who signed the bogus 1984 social security “reform” act. If Bob Dole is the tax collector for the welfare state, as many on this site have asserted, for his role in getting that bill passed (among other things), then where does that put Reagan, who could have easily vetoed the bill? I’m pretty sure the Republican party hasn’t been “on track” regarding fiscal responsibility since Barry Goldwater was a candidate, and he even drifted off the rails in his later years. The Tea Party is a new movement, although some are undoubtedly the same people to whom Ross Perot appealed in 1992. Still, its ability to influence our government is limited due to the fact that it is strongest in Red States, but the ability to “primary” Republicans who are squishy on fiscal discipline represents real political power, and they should use it as often as possible. Orrin Hatch is at the top of that list, IMHO.

          • gbenton

            Perhaps at times I get a bit too misty eyed about Reagan, but even with certain things I disagree with, he sets the high water mark for Republican Presidents in my lifetime.

            From what I’ve read, his compromises with the Dems were a price he had to pay to play with a Dem controlled Congress. Considering that, it’s amazing Reagan was able to do anything.

            Another thing that has changed is that bipartisanship was the way of things then far more than today because today’s Dems are much further to the left in general than the Donkeys of Reagan’s day.

            You do underscore a point I’ve been trying to make, though… when Republicans do deals with Dems the price is too high because those decisions end up being bad in the long run.

            As long as the conventional wisdom is that bipartisanship is good, GOP efforts to fight the leftist creep will be tarred as ‘extremism’ by the media.

            To counter that, we must tar leftism and big government with the abysmal record that it has racked up over the last century and around the world.

            We must discredit the left so that the frame becomes a moral fight instead of a bipartisanship straw man issue.

            If leftism leads to failure, why cooperate at all? That is the new meme that we should advocate.

            In a negotiation, he who controls the frame controls the debate. We keep getting boxed in by the frame the left and the media portray – and to win we must shatter that with facts.

            If leftism is so great, why is Detroit in shambles? California? ALL socialist utopias? If raising taxes works so great, why did eastern block countries move to flat taxes?

            We don’t negotiate with terrorists… because their aim is evil and doing so encourages copy cats. In that way, we should not negotiate on these issues with the left.

          • runner12

            You are 100% on target. If the GOP would listen to the Tea Party, they would win in a landslide.

            But that would involve changing Washington dramatically and many in the establishment GOP have no desire for that to happen. The GOP needs to wake up and realize that Conservatism always wins the day.

            No more compromise with the Left. Our idealogies are polar opposite and cannot be reconciled.

      • sadams

        But the issue is one of tactics. Like others who are posting below, it is pretty clear to me that negotiation will not work because we will just end up with tax increases while still ending up with the economic burden of excessive spending. Gbenton wants to try a “sneak attack” and slip entitlement reductions through the same way ObamaCare was sold. I still think the better approach is just to channel Grover Norquist and focus solely on keeping the lid on taxes; the rest will take care of itself as the entire economy pays the price for the entitlements. Not a great option, but the only one that seems viable to me politically.

        • aesthete

          That clearly doesn’t work.

          • gbenton

            the economic argument.

            We need tax reform, lower rates, flat tax/fair tax, we can debate the details… but that must occur along with spending cuts or as you point out, economic growth gets killed by other factors like inflation and debt crowding out investment.

            That’s why the Bush 43 years were so awful because now we hear about the ‘budget busting Bush Tax Cuts’ when it was the spending stupid….

            Another example of the GOP fighting the Democrats fights for them.

        • gbenton

          The difference between the right and the left is that the left wants to tear down the essence of America and the right to varying degrees stands by the Constitution.

          How do you negotiate with liars?

          The elephant in the room is that the GOP, with the exception of Rep. Allen West and a few others, are so afraid of speaking the truth. Leftism IS unAmerican. The track record is abysmal.

          I think it makes more sense to discredit the left by holding up the report card of places like Detroit, California, and the Federal Balance sheet and show what nearly a century of Progressive thought has done.

          We get bogged down in Obamacare when what we need to do is pull the rug out from the whole leftist playbook and show how rosy promises for entitlements NEVER pan out. Discredit the core ideology and then the public will see that getting Social Security is a paltry ponzi scheme compared to what private investment would yield over a lifetime of work.

          My comment about the ‘sneak attack’ is to get around the MSM and the low information voter who don’t have a clue about what’s going on.

          We’ve got OWS masked creeps throwing projectiles at police in Oakland and NYC and calls for 1968 all over again… and we’re running Romney ‘Nixon II’.

          At least Newt can articulate the grand vision of Conservatism vs leftism… whatever his shortcomings. We need someone who can out communicate Obama… and that is what it all boils down to.

          • sadams

            that I can think of in the past 30 years where a majority of Americans has supported meaningful reductions in entitlements, no matter how the question is framed. Good luck swimming against that tide. Keeping taxes down is a winner; let’s not throw away the only ace we have to get an ephemeral entitlement cut.

          • gbenton

            The GOP should run on all the most popular planks… and like Walker did in Wisconsin, and Christie in NJ, start getting results the public likes as much as possible while fighting the bigger fight.

            As for entitlements, ‘saving Social Security’ should be the mantra, not ‘reform’, even though saving requires reform.

            The Dems are much better at messaging with the public. Reagan knew how to explain govt was the problem… if all we did was parrot the way he phrased things, we’d be much better off.

          • sadams

            particularly if Republicans only control the House. He could make a deal with the Senate Dems and peel off enough House RINOs to pass tax increases along with phony entitlement cuts. In that case we would be better off with Obama, since the Republicans would have an easier time maintaining a unified front. Problem is, we can’t predict the outcome of the election, so I’m going to have to hold my nose and vote for Romney if he is the nominee.

          • gbenton

            which is sell out principle for electoral power. A man who supported Romneycare can not be expected to repeal Obamacare, to say otherwise is just wishful thinking. Sorry.

            Obama has been just unbearable. But I’ll say this… the Dems power grab in his first two years led to an epic GOP win in the house. Unlike Bill Clinton, Obama seems incapable of moderation – and if he wins re-election, we are in for hard times -BUT he may destroy the Democrat party.

            I doubt we would have a House GOP majority had McCain won, just saying.

            I don’t know what to say about this… I’m unbelievably horrified at the GOP field. Romney the wall street scion is the worst candidate for a wall street is evil campaign.

            Newt, while visionary, has baggage and unfavorable numbers that may make him unelectable. Santorum IMHO can’t win the general, and Paul doesn’t count.

            As I’ve said before, I’ll vote and fight… but part of my hope died when Perry dropped out.

    • aesthete

      Current entitlements are not sustainable, and we will feel a real drag on our economy, as well as instability in our government, once we start hitting a 90-100% debt:GDP ratio. A low-tax environment is not the end-all, be-all of business growth: just as important is inflation and monetary policy, both of which will be out of control if low taxes and high deficits continue. I believe that now is the best time to sell the public on a difficult idea by making entitlement reform part of a comprehensive plan to reduce the deficit: this means putting military cuts on the table, and potentially tax hikes, as well. No one wants to hear that they are getting their benefits cut to pay for more saber-rattling against Iran; no one wants to hear about tax cuts for the rich when their benefits are getting cut.

      We’ve hit the limit wrt tax policy’s effectiveness: that’s the only thing we’ve gotten in the past 25 years.

      • sadams

        It is the same one I made from 1980 to somewhere around 2006; there was no greater Norquist-hater than me, but I finally realized I was a fool to believe our political system is capable of producing the result you are describing. It’s simply not going to happen. All that could possibly happen is a “deal” where we get real tax increases and phony entitlement cuts, with the worst of both worlds from each. I hate to admit it, but Grover was right to focus solely on taxes; the entitlement disease is incurable.

        • aesthete

          If we had all been Norquist followers, the Contract With America, and welfare reform, would never have happened.

          If we’d all been Norquist types, none of the de-regulations and privatizations that occurred at the state level, or tackling of public employee unions and pension systems, would have been attempted.

          If we’d all been Norquist types, then Democrats could easily co-opt us by promising tax cuts and the same programs they’ve been promising for some time now.

          Frankly, I’d also point out that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were perfectly preventable and have indeed added to our deficit, as well as expending our political capital.

          Is it difficult to create forward momentum on entitlements, that is true — but it will never happen if we don’t talk about it and attempt to persuade the public of entitlement reform in the context of comprehensive cuts meant to avoid a disorderly and abrupt end to the programs due to an inability to continue supporting them.

          • sadams

            whatsoever to be even guardedly optimistic about reform of entitlements. The Concord Coalition has been talking to the public about entitlements, and generally getting quite a bit of publicity for it, for decades. MSM articles for the past 20 years or so have routinely talked about the unsustainability of the entitlement track. They have barely even dented the polling numbers in all those years. The majority answer is always the same: raise taxes on everyone making more than I am, and cut spending on everything except my entitlements. I am convinced there is no way we are ever going to be able to even put a dent in that. Maybe I’m just tired, but experience eventually has to have an influence on one’s opinion. I’m OK with trying to convince the public otherwise, but tax increases should NEVER be on the table. The minute you do that, you’ll get tax increases and empty promises on entitlements.

          • gbenton

            Can has been kicked down the road $16 trillion times.

            We’ve reached 100% of GDP and the global economy stinks.

            Necessity is the mother of invention… and entitlements will be reformed, most likely, when they blow up and consensus is reached the hard way.

            Every addict has to hit bottom before change can really happen.

            It’s not pretty, but it’s how the human brain is designed to resist change and respond to danger.

          • aesthete

            to reduce the debt. Of the times I remember it being sold (CwA, Bush’s abortive half-measure on Social Security), it was sold as a standalone reform. Some candidates are still selling it, and promising more spending on the military and other areas (Santorum). Frankly, I can see why the elderly would not want their bennies cut, if it looks like it’s just going to go to prop something else up in the federal apparatus.

            I agree with your pessimism, and the polls bear out what you’re saying. I don’t agree with your response: we need to take advantage of the zeitgeist and make a serious attempt at cutting spending, and not getting distracted by other issues. Paul Ryan is making limited headway precisely because he is one of the few politicians selling reform as a remedy for deficits, who is selling it cogently, and who is treating the American public like adults. I would love for the American public to embrace entitlement reform for the “right” reasons and on its own merits, but I think that we would survive with tenuous, plodding support, or even muted but weak opposition to the idea of entitlement reform. Waiting until the last second to reform entitlements is politically safe, but is not economically safe and itself no guarantee of success — just look at Greece, which really did hit bottom but which still has huge protests against the incumbents who had no choice but to cut.

          • gbenton

            not reform.

            As Paul Ryan has said, if anyone is to have these programs, they must be saved, shored up, tweaked. Immediately reassure those 55 and older that they are protected and that we are saving everyone else with doable changes.

            Then pound the Democrats for risking seniors being on the streets by refusing to save SS and Medicare, etc., and pound home that Obama raided $500 billion from Medicare in his power grab that the people didn’t want.

            the GOP should stand with Paul Ryan on principle – even though I can understand the argument from some, like Rove, that it was poor timing to bring up the issue when Ryan did perhaps. But once raised, it should have been a battle cry to SAVE SS and Medicare as I see it.

            Totally agree that waiting till it all blows up is a bad idea, but political reality what it is, that may be what happens.

          • aesthete

            Now is the best time to shoot for reforms, and Paul Ryan’s approach is the best one, IMO. We may end up trying and failing — I don’t know. I do know that waiting until the last second (i.e., when things are even worse than they are today) is a terrible idea, and that it does not guarantee reform, either.

        • gbenton

          The entitlements that the right compromised on over the last decades produced temporary solutions while the left played the long game and built infrastructure while taking over the media and the educational and entertainment industries.

          Any further compromise just furthers that process until one day it’s too late.

          That’s why we must discredit the left, not work with them. Mercilessly compare them to Europe, cite the decline of the dollar, the rise of the debt, the decline in the family… and in quick bullet form, cite the Democrat policies that spawned all of it.

          Example… when the left was threatened by the Tea Party, they called them ‘domestic terrorists’ and showed ads with Paul Ryan pushing granny over a cliff. Republicans just want the old and the sick to die, Grayson said.

          What do the GOP do with OWS? Even though they are wearing masks and assaulting cops, the GOP says very little. OWS includes domestic terrorists… but the GOP won’t say that.

          Do we want riots like Greece? The GOP should tie OWS and Europe and Greece and Enviro wackos and G20 summit violence ALL around the Democrat’s necks. To be a leftist is to be unAmerican is the message… If the GOP keeps fighting like gentlemen boxers against street fighters, I think we all know how that fight ends.

  • creinstein

    There are those who say the last 60 years points to the next 60 years

    How dare you

    There is a game changer out there.

    Even China, which is renown for Beauracracies that resist change for centuries, is changing due to this.

    It is the dawning of the Information Age .

    Already the information age handed the Conservative base of the United States a landslide victory.

    The extent of this victory, where we trumped in local positions so strongly that the Democrats will be hard pressed to find candidates over the next decade for positions of higher leadership.

    The victory was so sound the bottom of our Party is coming into position to start pushing upwards for change.

    DO YOU HEAR THIS ESTABLISHMENT?

    We are going to have better leaders soon, as they will push out the driftwood of our party and start taking positions of authority.

    We did this, not the establishment.

    We are the Tea Party, you will hear from us soon!

    • gbenton

      and a good reminder that the system takes time to change. The 2010 wave wasn’t a panacea and the GOP haven’t held the line as we’d all hoped. Scott Brown turned out to be the predictable MA RINO who has made some disastrous key votes that HELPED the Democrats pass Dodd Frank, etc.

      And this primary season as been one of bewilderment – as there is scant evidence the Tea Party had any influence on the nominees – though one could argue that is what is propping up Ron Paul as a protest vote to some extent.

      In the long run, from the bottom up, there is much to hope for. In my frustration, I can be swayed by doom when I consider the current presidential field and obamacare being at stake…

      I appreciate your post

  • BrendanW

    is like baseball writers pre sabermetrics.